Today’s birth story was one that took place back in May in the first couple of months of the pandemic in a Manhattan hospital, and it was recorded mid-June. Alissa initially hired a doula to help her remain calm, but due to the pandemic the hospital wasn’t allowing more than one support person, so she shifted that support to postpartum virtual support. Despite not having doula support for the labor, she’s surprised when she finds most of her 8-hour labor so manageable that she questions being in labor at all for much of it. Alissa also explains how surprised she was at how wonderfully everything went and how her fears were unnecessary, and will also share some of the surprising ways the pandemic positively affected her experience. From there, Alissa goes on to share how deeply challenging breastfeeding was for her. When she realized it was having a hugely negative impact on her mental health and hurting her relationship with both her daughter and her husband, she ultimately decides to stop nursing and switch to bottle feeding. She’ll explain how, while it was a very difficult decision, ultimately it was an important and wise one to protect the wellness of their whole family.
Episode Topics:
Preparing for birth -- finding that doing too much research and reading made her more scared
Finding this podcast’s stories to help her feel more calm
Hiring a doula to help her feel less scared -- Covid happens and doulas weren’t allowed, so she shifts her to being a virtual postpartum doula instead
Staying active in pregnancy, eating dates, drinking red raspberry leaf tea
Being sad about not being able to see family/friends during the last few months of pregnancy due to Covid
What prenatals were like in light of Covid
Labor starting and water breaking in a subtle/confusing way, being unsure if it was really labor
Waking her husband, talking on phone with mother, mother convinces her they should leave for hospital because she believes Alissa’s really in labor
Arriving at hospital and is 4 cm and they confirm her water broke so they’ll do minimal cervical checks
Getting Covid test in L&D room
Things get more intense, getting epidural
Within about an hour, fully dilated and ready to push
Not feeling any of the fear she thought she’d have
Baby born within 30 minutes, feeling amazing & proud
Really wonderful care from nurses & doctor
In postpartum, baby going to NICU because Alissa developed a fever right after labor
Not knowing she’d have to stay an extra day when Julian leaves to go get their home ready (and he couldn’t return)
Having to wear a mask, having trouble seeing the baby due to it
Struggles with breastfeeding hurting her mental health
Making the hard decision to stop breastfeeding
Resources:
The New Rules of Pregnancy by Dr. Jaqueline Worth, OB/GYN
1060 OBGYN (Alissa mentioned specifically Dr. Patty Ng) @ Lenox Hill Hospital
Evidence on red raspberry leaf tea for natural induction - article & podcast (Evidence Based Birth)
Evidence on consuming dates - article & podcast (Evidence Based Birth)
Sponsor Links:
Free Pack for Your Best Birth Checklist & option to receive free email course
Birth Matters online, self-paced comprehensive childbirth prep course
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters podcast. Today, I have Alissa with me. Welcome Alissa.
[00:00:07] Alissa: Hi, thank you for having me.
[00:00:09] Lisa: Why don't you start by just introducing yourself a little bit. Let us know where you live, how long ago you gave birth, if you want to share your profession, any of that.
[00:00:19] Alissa: Sure. So, my husband, Julian and I, we live in Astoria. And I gave birth it'll be six weeks ago, tomorrow on May 8th. And I am a communications director for a private school in the city.
[00:00:33] Lisa: Great. And you had signed up for my class, my in-person class, I think back in January. And then the pandemic started happening and we had a few email exchanges and you guys switched when my in-person live classes switched to live virtual classes, you made the decision to switch to my on-demand course, right?
[00:00:53] Alissa: Yes, exactly. So I was very, very excited to actually come to the in-person class. I had heard so many amazing things about you, and the class itself, and just, you know, how much, really valuable content was offered. And, I had really wanted to meet other expectant parents and especially like being in Astoria -- it was so helpful. I felt having that so nearby in a neighborhood and, and then when the pandemic happened, I just kept pushing it like every week, I'd be like, no, maybe it's still gonna be on. Maybe it's still gonna be on. And then it was canceled, which was upsetting. But the, the on-demand class ended up working out really well for us as well.
[00:01:32] You know, when you're in quarantine and you don't have much else going on, it's really easy to just dive in and learn as much as you possibly can about birth and babies and all of that. So that was really helpful.
[00:01:45] Lisa: And, in your pregnancy, what other things did you do to prepare for birth?
[00:01:51] Alissa: I think I did too much to prepare for birth, if that's possible. I been kind of obsessed with being prepared and it's something that I've been reading about and researching for quite a long time, because I was horrified. And I felt like the more information I had, the more comfortable I would feel.
[00:02:13] And I started to realize that the more information I had, the less comfortable I started to feel, because you just start to think about everything that could possibly go wrong. And I would just convince myself that I was going to be one of those like horror stories because everybody wants to share their horror story.
[00:02:32]And so it just, it just kind of got to a point where I had to stop all research and reading. I listened to tons of podcasts and really find what was helpful for me. I think what was helpful was definitely listening to your podcast. There was another that, I had, I had listened to for a while and it would just terrify me. I felt like there were so many traumatic stories. And so it was suggested that I listen to your podcast and it's just, I would be washing the dishes and listening to it or washing up at the end of the day and listening to it. And it just started to make me feel like there was that positive spin to it.
[00:03:08]So it was really helpful for me in, in preparing and, yeah, I just thank you for that. I think I needed that. I needed to hear more positive stories and not to feel like it was all gloom and doom.
[00:03:20] Lisa: Hmm, thank you so much for sharing that, that really means the world to me, because that's why I started it -- was to try to encourage people and really build the confidence and reduce fear as much as possible. So, yeah. Great. And then, so you hired a doula, right?
[00:03:35] Alissa: I did. I think this was back in February, maybe. I'd gone through the Astoria Doula Collective. And I met with, I want to say, I think I met with three separate doulas and they were all fantastic.
[00:03:50]I, I really felt the connection. The doula's name was Bori. And we just had a really great meeting and it was through that meeting where I started to feel like I was excited and birth to me, like I said, I was so scared. I needed something to make me feel like I was capable of doing this and that it would be an enjoyable experience and that, you know, this is going to end up being one of the best days of my life, if not the best day of my life, instead of looking at it, you know, I would look at the calendar and look at my due date and just fear that time coming. And I didn't want to approach it that way. So I felt like I really needed a calming presence there with me.
[00:04:32]And to sort of guide me through the entire labor and delivery process. So I ended up hiring Bori. She was just so down to earth and, when we met, she had brought me like a bomb that she had made like a lip balm and, like a hand cream, I think it was.
[00:04:49] And, she was just very sweet and I felt like she had so much experience and that I would really be comfortable with her. Cause it's just so important. And I was really happy about that decision. It took a while for me to really settle on it. And, I did a lot of research and the interviewing process was time consuming.
[00:05:09] And so once I decided that I would move forward with her, it just started to feel more positive and, and then COVID happened. And so I really was going back and forth on what I was going to, what I was going to do. We were only allowed one support person in the hospital and we were getting all this information kind of early on.
[00:05:32]I feel like I still had a good month and a half to two months before delivering when COVID really started descending upon us. And so, it started to feel to me, like it was not the birth experience that I had envisioned and I started to not feel like it was worth it to me to move forward with a doula, because I really wanted her to be able to come into our home and to be there in early stages of labor and, and tell me when it was time to go to the hospital.
[00:05:58] So I didn't show up and, you know, them tell me that I was too early and then I had to go home and, and I wanted her there in the delivery room. And I think like I wasn't tied to the idea of having a natural childbirth. It was an ideal for me, but I wanted to leave options open. Which is why I think I, you know, aside from having a very calming presence there for me and having somebody who could like coach me through it and who's had seen it many, many, many times.
[00:06:25]I think I just, yeah, like I, I wanted to also know that if I needed pain relief, it was there for me. And, you know, I, wasn't going to feel bad about it. If that wasn't a decision that I ultimately decided to make. But I think it was just that in-person presence that really, that I really craved. And so when I learned that I couldn't have that and that it would have to be, you know, through FaceTime or, you know, over the phone, it just started to feel a little unrealistic to me.
[00:06:54] And I'm sure that many people have given birth with virtual doula support and it's been fantastic. It just didn't feel right for me. So I ultimately decided not to move forward with it because I just started to get really frightened with COVID happening. And we were hearing that like some hospitals were banning birth partners altogether and you know, you'd have to wear a mask the whole time and it just started to feel like it was going to be a very negative, uncomfortable experience. And I, I just started to feel like I just want to go into that hospital, give birth and get the hell out of there to be honest. And not really worry so much about a birth plan or comforts from home or anything that would make the experience, I don't know, the word romantic comes to mind.
[00:07:40] Like I really just wanted to get out of there. And so, Yeah,
[00:07:44] Lisa: Fight or flight kind of enters. That makes so much sense. Yeah.
[00:07:49] Alissa: Yeah. And it was hard. Cause you know, you have this vision of what you want birth to be. And then at the end, as I was nearing my due date, it was just the exact opposite, but I was okay with it.
[00:08:00] I felt like-- I didn't expect myself to have that kind of reaction, but I think it's what I needed ultimately. So I can talk about it a little bit more later, but I decided again, not to move forward with a labor and delivery doula, but I ended up using Bori as a postpartum doula, after the fact, which was immensely helpful for me.
[00:08:19] And that was still virtual, but it was, it was really helpful to have somebody there checking not me every day and sending me resources and links and all of that. So.
[00:08:28] Lisa: Doulas were, as all of this was ramping up, we were all scrambling for like, "Oh my goodness. We have clients signed up already and we need to switch to virtual. And how does that work? And we've got to figure this out. We'd have to make it work. I've been hearing a lot of good things about how valuable virtual support can be both in labor and after, but you have to be comfortable with it. And if you're not, we need to figure something else out. So I'm glad that you guys were able to figure that out and shift to the postpartum support because a lot of doulas, not all doulas, but some doulas are both birth and postpartum doulas.
[00:09:02] So nice. Glad that that worked out that way. So, are there any other things you want to note about how your pregnancy went or anything before we move into the birth story?
[00:09:13] Alissa: Sure. I think. I had a really easy pregnancy. Which of course I went into it expecting the worst because I just approach everything, expecting the worst.
[00:09:25]But it ended up being like, yeah, I didn't have too many issues. I, I felt really good. again, I think that I read way too much and I would advise anyone who's pregnant now and preparing to give birth to just. Close the books and stop Googling because it really made me anxious. And I just felt like I got to a point, the first trimester is always really difficult because there's a lot of uncertainty and you don't know if like, you know, the pregnancy is going to keep and, there's so much testing involved.
[00:09:56] And so the more you know, it feels like the more you recognize what could go wrong and it. It was really helpful for me. There was a book that I bought. At the Astoria Bookshop, actually, it's called THE NEW RULES OF PREGNANCY I'll have to double-check if that's what it's called.
[00:10:17] Lisa: It is. Yeah. And that's by Dr. Worth, who's a local OB and she's one of my favorite, in the birth community, one of our favorite OBs.
[00:10:24] Alissa: Yeah. She I've met with her and spoken to her a couple of times when I was searching for an OB and I really loved her. And so I saw this book and I highly, highly recommend it. It was so calming and literally, I think on the cover, it says like what to ignore.
[00:10:39] So, you know, you could just have your body make a baby and not really worry about it. And it just like the photography is beautiful. It's very paired down language it's not overwhelming in any way whatsoever. I just found that enormously helpful during the pregnancy just to like kind of calm down and let my body do what it was going to do.
[00:11:01]Beyond that, I, I did walk a ton. Like I walk a lot, it was always climbing stairs up and down escalators, I just felt like I don't really exercise very much, but for me that was the way to do it because I somehow got into my head that if I were climbing stairs and walking a lot, that I would have an easier birth.
[00:11:20] And so I would just really push myself to do that. But yeah, otherwise I was feeling pretty good. I had a lot of food aversions in the beginning. That all went away. And then I just remembered at the very end in the third trimester, everybody would say how uncomfortable you would get. And I would just keep waiting to get to that point of utter discomfort.
[00:11:40] And like, there were minor discomforts and sleeping wasn't the best at the end. But it was never anything that I felt like I couldn't handle. And, I don't know, I remember going to a doctor's appointment. I think I was, maybe I had three weeks left, and I remember saying as they were weighing me, it was like, I could go another whole month.
[00:12:02] I didn't feel like I wasn't, I wasn't really ready at that point. I didn't feel like I was at the end of the pregnancy because I wasn't uncomfortable. It just was like, I don't know, I can continue doing this. It's not like I have to get this baby out. it really wasn't that uncomfortable for me, which was really nice. I feel very lucky for that.
[00:12:20] Lisa: Well, and it's interesting that right before you mentioned that it wasn't so uncomfortable. You just got done saying how active you stayed. And I know that there's a correlation between staying active and keeping things loose and moving and not getting as many discomforts and pains in the third trimester or at any point in pregnancy, but especially that third trimester.
[00:12:42] Alissa: Good to know.
[00:12:43] Lisa: And do you know, like you said, you got it in your head that you should be doing stairs and walking. Do you happen to remember was it something that you read or you heard or anything, or do you just kind of instinctively...
[00:12:55] Alissa: No, I think it, because you would hear, like you need to prepare for labor and delivery like you're running a marathon.
[00:13:01] And, and then there are classes they offer in the city that I had seen that they do exercises that are specific for pregnant women, just to aid in labor and delivery. And I just knowing that I don't like exercise and it's not something that I ever saw myself really getting into. It felt to me like, I already walk a ton and I don't know why walking just doesn't seem like exercise to me, but every time I go to the doctor, he was like, no, it counts.
[00:13:31] I dunno. Yeah. Like you'd have to be running or, I don't know, at a gym or something. And so yeah, there was that. And also a friend of mine when she lived in the city, she said she walked a ton and she had a very easy labor and delivery. And then I feel like I had heard on podcasts to people saying, or maybe it was when you shared your birth story as well.
[00:13:55] Like you had walked all of Manhattan the day before you went. Yeah, this is what I have to do. And so, yeah, I don't know. It worked for me, I guess it was helpful. And, it's just part of my everyday routine and my commute to work and, and I would think about it and like try and mentally get myself there.
[00:14:15]So yeah, that was really helpful. The other thing I'm just thinking in preparation when I was pregnant for childbirth, I don't remember where I read this either. I don't know if it maybe, no, I think it was on your podcast. I started eating a lot of dates, which, I don't even like dates. I, they were, it was really horrible.
[00:14:33] I was happy to throw out the dates once the baby was born. And then I drank a lot of red raspberry leaf tea and started doing squats. That to me, it was just whatever I could do that I felt comfortable with that might make a difference. There's a lot of like varying research on whether or not the dates or the tea was actually effective.
[00:14:52] Who knows. But, yeah, it just kind of made me feel a little bit better. Like I was being proactive about something and somehow taking control over something in which I had zero control.
[00:15:06] Lisa: Great. Thank you for sharing all that. You did all the things.
[00:15:12] Great. I love it. Wonderful. Well, do you want to go into your birth story?
[00:15:18] Alissa: Yeah, I guess, you know, it was a very unique time, given COVID going into the birth. Things obviously changed pretty quickly. I, you know, every doctor's appointment that I had been to, which there, there weren't many, like, I think they cut down on the number of appointments, just to keep patients out of the office.
[00:15:39]And I was actually really fine with that. Again, from having read that book, and like letting go of everything, it just felt to me like if it's not necessary and my body is doing what it's supposed to be doing, then I don't need to be constantly monitored or I didn't feel like I was missing out by not having it's like souped up ultrasounds or anything like that.
[00:15:57] I just kind of want it to calmly go into the third trimester and into the birth and not really monkey with anything too much. But the, my doctor's appointments, every time I would go, there was nobody in the waiting room. I think they would kind of orchestrate it so that, you know, you weren't surrounded by a lot of people.
[00:16:15] All the doctors would be like full big scrubs mask, head wraps. I thought it would be really scary to see them decked out like that, but it actually didn't bother me at all. It seems like it's going to be stale and sterile and like overly medical and frightening, but I, I loved all my doctors and like, I just never, I never felt scared in their presence or that it was taking away from what my experience was going to be in, in any way. So that was really what was going on leading up to it. It was really difficult at the end, not being able to see my family. My mother had planned this beautiful baby shower that was canceled. It was supposed to have been the end of March. And this was when things first started shutting down.
[00:17:03] And I think we didn't make the call that we were going to cancel it until, maybe it was like a week before, cause we still kind of envisioned that it would be possible. And then things just started looking more and more grim. So my husband, Julian, and I came to my mother's house to pick up all of the presents and, you know, see all the decor and everything.
[00:17:22] And it was, it was a really sad moment for me, and especially for my mom who had put so much effort into the party and I was just so excited to share in the happiness. So like that, that part was really hard. Just, you know, I feel like nobody in my family really saw me when I was pregnant. It took a long time for me to really look like I was pregnant.
[00:17:41] And, and it's just something like, I feel like, like I went into this entire experience and now even had a baby. And it's the only evidence people have of that is through photographs. And, you know, it's weird looking back or thinking back and feeling like there are great numbers of people in my life who haven't seen me during this really important time and aren't really too involved with it and especially family members. It's, it's, it's been, it's been really hard. I think that's, that's the hardest part of it and feeling like you're going through something in isolation, is not pleasant, but I have a wonderful partner. You know, we kind of just felt like we had to hunker down and be there for each other and get through it.
[00:18:26] And, and, it was really nice knowing that I had something spectacular to look forward to. Yeah, it kind of just punctuated the days in a way where you turn on the news and everything was terrible. And it was like, "Oh, but we're having a baby," you know, like, "Let's think about where we're going to put things in the nursery."
[00:18:45] And like, my mind was really just hyper-focused on getting ready, which was a really nice distraction. But in terms of the birth itself, if you want me to just launch into that whole story.
[00:18:58] Lisa: Sure. Can I ask maybe one or two questions before you do, did you have any virtual appointments with your care provider?
[00:19:05] Alissa: I didn't. They were all in person and they were all like 15 minutes or less. Yeah, they would just go in and take vitals, do an ultrasound and then like, "okay, you're good to go." We would drive there to all the appointments to avoid getting on the subway. And, I don't, I guess I could have done virtual, like they would call me and ask me if I had any symptoms and they would be checking in just to make sure that everything was going to be safe. But, yeah, I, I didn't mind going in. I wasn't too afraid or anything,
[00:19:35] Lisa: And it might've been the timing when you were giving birth. Early on in the pandemic, everybody was scrambling to figure everything out. And so they might not have really shifted to telehealth yet, maybe. And I'm sure the timing for each hospital and each care provider was a little bit different on that.
[00:19:53] Because it seems like now there's a lot more tele-health happening and that may actually become the new normal going forward. I'm reading articles about that. So I was just curious about that. Yeah. And another thing I just wanted to comment on was thank you for reflecting on the feelings of sadness of people not getting to see you grow and experience this with you and the missed baby shower. I'm hearing a lot from all of my different students and clients and expectant parents that there is this sadness about that-- about only being able to just send pictures, but no one actually seeing in real life, in person this growing baby bump. And so in our virtual classes we've been taking baby bump pictures, like class pictures, we get our faces picture, but then we also get the baby bump picture because I'm finding a lot of students want that. I don't know, just that, that, like, I'm here, I'm, I'm growing. Here's the baby, you know. Yeah.
[00:20:47]And another timing kind of thing seems with your shower, a lot more people now we're having virtual showers because everybody's just sort of figured out the virtual life, you know, now and how to do things on Zoom. Whereas at first you kept thinking, "Oh no, but we're going to get to be in person soon and soon and soon, but wait...no, it's not happening."
[00:21:06] Alissa: I know. It's really remarkable. And my mom was kind of like, "Oh, I wish I had known to have done a drive-by shower. Cause people are doing that now, too. You know, just to have everybody come in their cars and like wave and, and drop off their presents and all of that. But I did have a virtual shower at work that was organized by some really lovely colleagues of mine.
[00:21:27] I thought I was going into a meeting and then all of a sudden, I see all these faces staring back at me. And so that was really nice. Like people have just become really clever as a result. And I still felt like, you know, I loved that experience. I thought it was, was really nice to connect with everyone, even though I couldn't, you know, be there and experience it. It was just a very sweet gesture.
[00:21:46] Lisa: Nice. All right. So now let's go ahead into your birth story.
[00:21:52] Alissa: Sure. So, again, just reiterating how horrified I was and how much I read and absorbed, really, even in the years prior to having become pregnant, I knew too much of what to expect and, really, really thought that anytime I heard something horrible happened to somebody, I was convinced that was going to happen to me as well.
[00:22:13]And so, yeah, I just always envisioned that at the tail end of the pregnancy, that I would not be able to stop focusing on every feeling and twinge and sensation. And that I would just imagine that every weird cramp that I felt was me going into labor. I was a little bit more calm than that. I kind of surprised myself in that regard.
[00:22:35]I had heard that you would know if you were going into labor, that it wasn't something that you would mistake for something else. But actually, I didn't know when I had gone into labor that I was actually in labor. In fact, I was in denial for good half of it.
[00:22:51] But I think I woke up on, on that Friday. It was around 3:45 in the morning and I just got up to go to the bathroom, but I was feeling kind of funny, but not really any pain. And it was about 15 minutes later, I actually did start feeling, like mild period cramps. And it went away rather quickly. And then eight minutes later I noticed the same feeling and then it went away and then eight minutes later I noticed the same feeling and it just kept happening, but I just kept convincing myself that it wasn't labor.
[00:23:27]And it, was probably like close to an hour that this was going on. And then I got out of bed and I felt like I need to start writing down the times here that this is happening just to see there is this pattern that's really emerging. And so I had gotten out of bed and I went into the kitchen and I would write down the times and it still was pretty consistent between seven and eight minutes apart. And, I remember I was standing in the kitchen and I suddenly just felt like something leaking out. And again, I was like, no, that's not my water breaking. Cause you would imagine that it would be a different feeling.
[00:24:06] And I had gone into the bathroom and noticed that it was kind of blood tinged. Like a pinkish color and even still, I was Googling like crazy. And just trying to imagine if it was something other than me actually being in labor. So I kept marking down the times like I'm sounding insane as I'm recounting this because obviously that's what it was.
[00:24:25] But I still was like, I didn't want to get my hopes up or, again, be one of those people who shows up at the hospital and is then turned away. And so at another point, I was standing in the kitchen again, like just timing everything. And I, I felt that release again, like something was leaking again.
[00:24:43] And I went back to the bathroom and checked and that's when I started to feel like this is a little weird. So I went and I woke up Julian and I never wake him up because like he's hates when I do that. And it was like, it has to be really serious. And I said to him, I think I'm in labor. Cause I still wasn't sure. And I waited a little bit longer to call the doctor, again, because I still wasn't convinced. I had been there on a Tuesday and it was now Friday. And when I was in the office on a Tuesday, they said I was already about two and a half centimeters dilated.
[00:25:14] And, the baby was, was like had descended and was sitting pretty low. And when I left, the doctor said to me, you know, "Come in a week and we'll check you again, unless you give birth before then." And I was thinking like, "ah, I'm not going to give birth before then that's not going to happen."
[00:25:29] So when I called the after-hours line, it was the same doctor I had seen that Tuesday and I explained everything to her. And she basically just said, go to the hospital whenever you're ready. Like, this is it, it's happening. And I was still not convinced that it was, I was like, "no, she doesn't know."
[00:25:44] And I ended up, ordering some bagels. Like it was just, I made the bed, I took a shower. Like I was not really in that mind space. And I texted my boss and let her know that I wasn't sure what was happening, but it was a possibility that I wouldn't be able to be working today. And then I would keep her posted.
[00:26:03]I did call my mother. I had her on the phone for quite a while and I was still like, "I don't know if this is what it is." And as our conversation progressed, the contractions started coming a little bit faster and I would notice they were like maybe three minutes apart. Like sometimes it was seven minutes.
[00:26:20] Sometimes it was five. Sometimes it was three and it wasn't following the progression that I had imagined. And so again, and I kept feeling like, "I'm not sure if that's what it is," but then I started, I guess like breathing a certain way. And my mom--she's had three kids--and she was like, "no, you're in labor based on what you sound like. I think you should go to the hospital."
[00:26:40] And like, the bagels had just arrived. I took one bite out of one and we were still kind of packing. Julian was finishing breakfast and getting things ready. And, and then I started to get scared. And I felt like, like, "we should leave right now," because I actually didn't know what was going on.
[00:26:57] And if they were really three minutes apart, like it's scary. Cause it's your first time giving birth. And I didn't want to give birth in the car, even though I know you had said in the class that like never happens.
[00:27:06] Lisa: *Almost* never.
[00:27:07] Alissa: But it's always in the back of our mind, right?
[00:27:12]So we ended up getting everything together and I remembered from your class, it was like, let's put the car seat in the front of the car. And I crawled into the back seat. It was like a good thing not many people were on the road because of COVID because I was like, people who looked into this car, I don't know, they just, I mean, [I'm in] this like crazy position. Yeah, it would have been really embarrassing, but I was just at the point where I didn't even care. And I have to say though, like I wasn't in immense pain. It was, and I heard that before, too. Like, it did feel more like intense pressure, but really bad cramping, but it was manageable.
[00:27:56] It still felt manageable, which was really unexpected. You know, seeing as how I was horrified and fearing absolutely everything about the whole experience. it started to get a little bit more uncomfortable when we were in the car, the ride there to the hospital. I gave birth at Lenox Hill. It was only maybe 15 minutes, which thank God, because it's really uncomfortable being in labor in a vehicle.
[00:28:22] Lisa: Around what time of day was this?
[00:28:24] Alissa: This was probably we probably got to the hospital around 9:00 AM. So, so
[00:28:29] Lisa: On a weekday or weekend?
[00:28:31] Alissa: It was a Friday. And. Yeah. And like coming from his story, I don't know. It was a really easy drive and there's this one really long light turning onto Northern Boulevard. And every time we would get to that light pre-labor I would always say, "Oh my God, when I'm in labor, this is going to be the worst part of it, because this light is so long."
[00:28:50] Lisa: I know the light you're talking about, but it is a long one.
[00:28:58] Alissa: Julian was dictating as he was driving. And he was like, "Oh my God, I made it through the light. Like, we didn't even have to stop." It was just like, everything was working out beautifully. There was no traffic.
[00:29:08] Lisa: It has been a silver lining of Covid. So many students have said there's been no traffic and the hospitals aren't crowded either. That's been so nice.
[00:29:17] Alissa: It was so nice. And, so he pulled up right into the front and went to go park and it was kind of comical, because even then when I walked into the front desk, I said, I think I'm in labor. And they gave me a mask and they sent me up to the sixth floor. And even when I got out to the sixth floor, I went to the desk and I looked at them and I was like, I don't know if I'm in labor.
[00:29:38] And then somebody came by and they just haven't seen the way that I was breathing. And they said, "Oh, you're in labor." And I was like, "Yeah. Okay. We'll see." And so I went to triage and
[00:29:49] Lisa: Did they do a COVID test?
[00:29:52] Alissa: No, they did the COVID test once I got to the delivery room. I don't know if there was a delay or if that's the way they normally do it. I was expecting it to be done immediately. I was just given a mask and sent on my way and that was it.
[00:30:05] Lisa: And did Julian get a mask and a test as well or no?
[00:30:08] Alissa: He got a mask. He was not given a test. I actually didn't see him for quite a while. So he went to go park and then I was in triage for a while.
[00:30:18] I don't know at what point I saw him, but I had to keep asking like, "Can someone let him know where I am? Or where is he? Or when will I see him?" It was all very confusing. But yeah, I had read beforehand and had done a virtual tour of Lenox Hill with one of the head nurses and they made clear that partners would not need to be tested.
[00:30:38]So, yeah, I just kept waiting for that to happen. I thought it was going to happen immediately, but I was like well into labor by the time that test came around. So I'm not sure really what that was about but. So I, when I got into triaged, I was still texting my boss saying like, "I'll let you know what they say."
[00:30:57] You know, like still expecting that they're going to send me home. I don't know what was wrong with me. And so I got in and, they checked to see how dilated I was. And I think I was four centimeters at that point. And it still was totally manageable. I remember in your class doing the ice cube exercises to see what your like pain coping techniques were.
[00:31:19] And I felt like it was most helpful for me when I knew how much time I had left of a contraction and it was not very distracting for me to do like these breathing techniques, but then when I was actually in labor, I found the breathing techniques were most helpful. And it was just taking like slow, deep breaths.
[00:31:38] It wasn't any kind of like rhythmic anything. It's just what felt instinctual to me in the moment. And yeah, so like I found the nurses were really helpful in triage and like comforting and, but that was nice. That was nice for me. Cause you know, I wanted that doula support and I just remember they would just keep telling me that I was doing great.
[00:31:57] And I, I felt like I was, I don't, I don't know. I just always had this fear that I was not going to be very good at it. And it was just nice having that positive reinforcement and I was really surprising myself. It wasn't as horrible as I had imagined. And plenty of people have told me that it's not as bad as others make it out to be.
[00:32:18]So yeah, it was nice kind of seeing that all come to fruition in a sense. And, so once they told me that I was four centimeters and they were clearly going to admit me, and at that point I was like, okay, I'm not working today. Nothing is going to get done for the next three months or so. So I was texting with my boss and like letting family and friends know.
[00:32:40] And, so it felt like it took a while to get into the delivery room. And I was still like fully capable of walking there. It was one thing I remember they'd asked if I wanted a wheelchair and I just felt like there was no way that I would have required that. And I said, you know, I'll just, you know, grab onto the wall or something if I need to on the way, or like maybe we'll just walk slowly to get there.
[00:33:03]It didn't feel that horrible to me and I really still felt like I was not in an advanced stage, because they, they did confirm actually I forgot to mention when I was in triage, they did confirm that my water had broken when I was at home. And so as a result of that, they just did one cervical check and said that they weren't going to do many others at all throughout the entire process.
[00:33:29]So I did finally get into labor and delivery and I was probably in there for maybe, I don't know, I don't even have a sense of time at that point, but I'd seen maybe it was like 20 minutes to a half an hour before my husband came in. And during that time things started to get a lot more intense, and really quickly, and I wasn't timing anything, but it started to feel like it was like every two minutes I was getting a contraction. My practice had said that like, based on the pattern of the contractions, they were asking if I wanted to have an epidural. And at that point I was still kind of like, this is still manageable.
[00:34:05] I feel like I can do this. I wasn't categorically against it. I think I was more afraid of the epidural process itself. And even like, it, it seems really scary.
[00:34:16]And so I kind of wanted to avoid it for that reason. Cause I'm a bit of a chicken, but it did start to feel like. I didn't know if I could handle it for another 20 hours and I didn't know how much longer I had to go. And I just, I had anticipated that it would take that long because that's commonly what happens.
[00:34:36] Lisa: It plays mind games with you, doesn't it?
[00:34:37] Alissa: It really does.
[00:34:38] Lisa: The idea of, I have no idea and nobody can tell me either how long I have to do this is one of the biggest mind games in labor for sure.
[00:34:47] Alissa: There was only one position I could be in at that point. I was just hunched over the bed. And I would kind of like rock side to side on my legs, but then kind of like spread apart.
[00:34:56]I remember I asked the nurse--Alex was her name. She had like tattoos on her arms. She was very, very cool. I'd asked her if this would continue for much longer. And she said it could go on for a really long time. And she just, she wasn't pushing the epidural because she knew. And I said to her, I'm like, "Do you have patients who just go drug-free?"
[00:35:17] And she said, "Yes, of course." And I had always heard more horror stories where you constantly have a nurse coming in the room. It's like, are you ready for the epidural? You're ready for the epidural? Like, she was very chill about it. She had just said, like, "I want a happy mother. Like if you're very uncomfortable, it's hard for me to see you uncomfortable. So I want to find a way to make that better." And so, you know, when I had asked her if it was going to last much longer and she said it could, and even from your class and knowing that it would, it could take such a long time. And having had friends who had had obscenely long labors, I started to get really frightened because it was, it was pretty intense.
[00:35:55] And, so I opted to go with the epidural and it was something I felt like I would feel like a failure if I had done it. My mom gave for three times all drug-free. She also had really short labors. I think her longest labor was six hours. So, you know, I had asked her once, "If you knew you had to go an additional 20 hours, would you have done drugs?"
[00:36:20] And she said yes. I don't know. It was just always in my mind, like, you want to join this tribe of women who have done it without pain relief and, and even thinking about all those women who have done it before there was pain relief. But knowing that it is possible, it just felt to me, like, it'd be a nice goal to reach.
[00:36:39] But in that moment, I just felt like I wanted to make the situation a little bit more comfortable. Oh, I do want to back up because I did have the COVID test in the labor & delivery room before I had gotten the epidural. And I have to say, I tell everybody that was actually the worst part of the entire experience.
[00:36:58] I hated that. I was like, I'd go through the contractions again. I would deal with all of that, but I will never do another COVID test. Hopefully not. Oh, it was bad. It's like really invasive and I wasn't expecting it to be as bad as it was. And I think you guys are like sticking this weird-looking swab up your nose.
[00:37:18] And it goes pretty far up there. And I remember it, like, I kind of gagged when they first did it and backed off and I looked at the nurse and I was like, "Oh my God, I, I messed it up. You have to do it over again. Don't you?" So I had to do it again.
[00:37:31] Lisa: Oh no. Yeah, I've heard people describe it as it feels like they're going into your brain with the swab.
[00:37:40] Alissa: I was like, "Great, thanks." So that had happened. Yeah, so I got the epidural. And I think like, at least for me, I was so hyper-focused on every single detail about the horrors of giving birth that, you know, if someone were explained to you, what exactly is happening and you're not in the moment when you need that thing, it sounds terrible.
[00:38:02] Like, no, I didn't want this giant needle going into my back, but in the moment I wasn't even thinking about it. It was just. I leaned forward. I was holding onto the nurse. I was focusing on her and like she was being very calming and, they're just awesome. These nurses, I mean, I gotta say it was just a really, really wonderful experience given everything that's going on with COVID.
[00:38:23] I just really need to give a shout out to nurses everywhere. I just felt so good in her presence and-- it was nothing like, again, the Covid test was worse than the epidural. And so, within minutes I felt better. It was just like the feeling of the pressure would slowly, slowly go down until they just vanished.
[00:38:44]The only drawback to the epidural, which wasn't even that bad was that I was shaking quite a bit. I didn't feel like I was nervous. It just came on really suddenly. And they told me that it was a result in the epidural itself and it was common. And so I wasn't too worried. They were monitoring my blood pressure as a result and so. You know, they kept telling me to rest, but my whole body was trembling since like, I can't really rest here at all. But I did feel more relaxed, which was good. And they let me know that my doctor was coming, and that she was gonna check and see how dilated I was. And so she, shortly after the epidural came, I want to say it had, it had maybe been an hour since I had the epidural until the doctor came in to check. And when she came in and she did the check, I was fully dilated, which I had not anticipated at all. And so. I don't know if before getting the epidural, like when it started to get really intense, if that was like going into transition or like, you know, I could have gone through without it, but I don't regret it.
[00:39:49] It really made it a much more pleasant experience, and much more relaxed experience. And I didn't feel afraid. Like I just felt like. This is where I am. I have a thing to do. There's no way out of it. Like this baby is being born today, possibly in a few minutes. And I don't know, you just kind of like go into this zone where all of the fear that had built up in the years that I had been reading about childbirth and listening to other people's stories about childbirth, it's like, it just vanished and yeah, I don't know, it was a really awesome feeling, and I just couldn't believe that that it had been that short. I think in total it was eight hours that I was in labor and I just felt really lucky. It was very unexpected. And, I wish I hadn't spent all that time fearing everything and like wasted all of that energy.
[00:40:43]So. They started to get the room all ready. And I remember they were laying out all of these surgical tools. They, they looked like surgical tools. I don't even know what they were. It just looked like varying like scissors in varying sizes that looked extremely intimidating. And they said like, "Don't worry, we're probably going to only use two of these; they're here just in case." And so they're getting everything set up and then they showed me, or we did like a practice pushing session. And I remember from your class as well, or you had said like, don't strain or like squish your face when you're pushing.
[00:41:14]And so I just kept that in the back of my mind the entire time, which was really helpful. And, yeah, I just had to say like, the experience was just incredibly, incredibly surreal. Having had the epidural, there wasn't much that I felt early on in the pushing stage. In this weird sense that I had no idea what was actually happening.
[00:41:32] And I started pushing, I remember the doctor saying that she's like, "I see hair." And I was like, how is this possible? Like, how is it happening that quickly? And like, I'm not even really feeling anything. And so, I think I probably pushed for about a half an hour until the baby was born. And even though like, yes, I had the epidural, but once like the baby would really crowning and coming, I definitely felt that. And it definitely felt weird. It's like, "This needs to come out right now. Cause I don't like it." And so, yeah.
[00:42:07] Lisa: So you felt the ring of fire. You feel like that intense stretching?
[00:42:10] Alissa: I did, yeah. It was like a stretching and a burning and it was actually really helpful cause the doctor had, like some kind of oil that she was using to like stretch the area.
[00:42:19] And after every round of pushing that I would do. She would stretch it again. And then even when the baby's head was coming out, I could feel her hands. She was stretching it then, too. I don't think I was like, I kept anticipating, like when she would say I see hair, I was like, "Oh, she must be crowning. And then she'd be like, "Okay, you need to do a couple more pushes."
[00:42:36] And I was like, I thought I was almost done. So I really had no sense about how far I was and how long it was going to take. So I did feel the baby when she was crowning and I felt that burning sensation and, but like, I just had no sense that she was really ready to come out, like within seconds because it felt like I closed my eyes and then I opened them and there was a baby on me and it was, yeah, it was just like, it was remarkable. It really was. And I think that, like, I wish I had focused on what that moment was going to be like, as opposed to how much it was going to hurt or, you know, all of the horrible things that could happen or how scary the epidural needle was going to be. Or if the nurses were going to be pushy or mean, like, I really should have focused on what that moment was because it was.
[00:43:30] It's just so unbelievable. And I don't know that I'll ever get to have that again. And yeah, it was just unexpectedly remarkable and I was really proud of myself. And I was really just so utterly thrilled that it was over. And I remember it was like within minutes I had delivered the placenta and the nurse said you're no longer pregnant.
[00:43:52] I was like, "Oh my God." It was like such a relief that all of that was over because I had just focused on the due date and the day that was going to come, that I was just going to be in the worst pain in my life. And I actually used to work around Lenox Hill hospital, and I would take the 77th street subway home every day.
[00:44:08] And I would look at the windows of the hospital and think it's like, I'm going to be in so much pain when I'm in there. And it was just a horrible way to approach giving birth and like welcoming a baby into the world because I was so scared and it just ended up being the exact opposite of what I thought I was going to be in the best way possible.
[00:44:28]So yeah, it was just so special and I don't think I will ever forget what that feeling was of having this warm baby pressed up against you. And yeah, it was just really, really, really special. So, yeah, that was kind of it. I'm sure I left out a ton, but if you have any questions about it, I'd be happy to answer.
[00:44:49] Lisa: Yeah. One thing people have commented on in these times is the whole mask--the annoyance of the mask. What was that like for you?
[00:44:58] Alissa: I forgot about that. That was annoying.
[00:45:01] Lisa: Good, that's a good sign. You're trying to accentuate the positive.
[00:45:06] Alissa: Yes. For once. Yeah. That was really annoying. I thought that it was going to be really hard for me to breathe. And it wasn't that no, I didn't really take issue with that. Cause I had heard other people say that like breathing through a contraction with was a real challenge. and that wasn't so bad. Also I was getting really hot. It was just utterly annoying that it was there. And the worst part of it was that the baby was born and I had this mask on my face, like up around my eyes and I couldn't see her. And I just kept like trying to adjust. And then I just got to the point where it's like, I lifted it and put it on top of my head, like a headband, because like, this is ridiculous. I can't even look at my daughter.
[00:45:49] Lisa: I hadn't even thought about that. That makes sense.
[00:45:52] I
[00:45:52] Alissa: didn't think that would even be a thing either, but it was just really hard to see her. And even like the positioning, everything, cause she was like right up on my chest. And so I left it up on my head. I think some of the photos that they took and I saw it later, I was like, "What is on my head, Oh, it's a mask. It looks really stupid." And so I kind of regret it in that regard, but I guess it looks better than having like my [inaudible] I
[00:46:16] Lisa: Sign of the times...
[00:46:18] Alissa: I know, exactly. So it was just a nuisance. It wasn't, like, I don't think it's something to really dread. And it also didn't feel like it was a sterile environment in which to give birth.
[00:46:32] Like I just, I loved my doctor. and again, I loved the, the nurses that were there, but my doctor, I went through, he was Dr. Ng from 1060 OBGYN and all of them are just, the staff, everybody there has just been so fantastic these past couple of months. They're fantastic in general, but especially now given everything that's going on. And, I remember I said to Dr. Ng during one of my visits, I said, I don't envy you right now because like this was at the beginning of the outbreak and she said to me, "Like, are you kidding? This is our time to shine. Like, this is what we're trained to do." And yeah, it really, I know I'm getting emotional, just even thinking about that.
[00:47:13] And, like I just felt so comfortable with them when like Lenox Hill had canceled their in-person tours, obviously. And so two and the doctor is Dr. DiGregorio and Dr. Ng had done their own virtual tour of the hospital and they would post on Instagram all the time, like, you know, showing them, wearing all the scrubs and the hats and the masks and the face shields.
[00:47:37] And it was like, don't be afraid. This is the new normal we're trying to keep you safe. We can't wait to see you. And you know, it really just felt so good to have that team there. And, like I really can't say enough about all, all of the doctors there-- Dr. Elliston, Dr. DeGregori, Dr. Ng. They're just so lovely. And I'm seeing Dr. Ng tomorrow and I'm like actually excited to go to this appointment. But, yeah, she was just such a cheerleader throughout the entire birth and, it was just lovely.
[00:48:07] Absolutely lovely. I don't know how I got into that. Oh, the mask thing, but like, yeah, everybody was wearing masks. I was wearing a mask. Julian had a mask on. It just kind of felt like this is the way we live now. It really didn't take away from the experience at all. And I thought it was going to, it was like, this is going to be stale and awful and, you know, overly medicalized.
[00:48:25]And it wasn't, I just felt like it was any other day, but it had this other element added onto it. That kind of... yeah, it's a sign of the times. It's like we're going through something that's rare. And maybe this will be our new normal. And if anything, I have a story to tell.
[00:48:41] Lisa: Absolutely, a great story. This is another interesting thing to process that over time we get used to not only like the virtual life and getting clever, like you said, but also getting used to the whole mask thing, because people who were sharing their birth stories who gave birth more like in March and April early April, maybe were much more annoyed by the mask, I think largely because of the newness of it. We're just not used to this yet. Whereas you were giving birth in early May and maybe we had had a little more time to kind of get used to that as more of a normal thing. Yeah. So I love that you're sharing that different perspective. Hopefully that can encourage people. And I also like, yeah, I totally, I'm so grateful. I'm hearing such great things, not just from you, from, from a lot of people about how lovely the nurses have been and how much more doula, like they're trying to be. I'm sure it's requiring a lot of extra energy and work for them because, you know, in the past they just haven't had that bandwidth.
[00:49:42] But maybe that's a fringe benefit of the less crowded hospitals is that they have fewer patients maybe so that they're able to do that a little bit more and how much that's needed, especially, you know, a few weeks back when only one labor support person was allowed. And even though two are allowed now many doulas are still doing virtual support, just cause they just feel like that's the safer thing to do for everybody concerned. Yeah. So it's so great to hear what a great birth team you had.
[00:50:11]Well, so do you want to talk at all about this first month or so of parenthood and what that's been like, or you could back up and talk about the hours and the time in the hospital, where would you like to go from here?
[00:50:24] Alissa: I think, yeah, I'll talk about maybe the first month of motherhood and like maybe tie into a little bit of the hospital stuff with that. It was still a bit of a challenge given COVID being in the hospital. I ended up having to stay for two nights, because I had developed a fever right after birth.
[00:50:41] And in my mind, I was like, "Oh, I think it's from the epidural." But they said it wasn't, who knows. The fever only lasted a couple of hours, but as a result of that, they had to take the baby and put her in the NICU. That was really hard only because I had expected getting a lot of like family time. And I didn't get to have that.
[00:50:59]She was born at 12:30 in the afternoon and I probably didn't get to see her until around 4:00 PM in the NICU. And then she didn't join us in our room until like evening time. And, so I was getting a lot of mixed messages and, you know, Dr. Ng had said, you can be discharged tomorrow.
[00:51:16] And I was thrilled. Cause as I said, I just wanted to get in and out of there. And then I was told later that night by one of the baby nurses that because the baby had been in the NICU, that we both had to stay for a full 48 hours to be monitored. So that was really hard. And, but I didn't know that until like definitively until after Julian had left.
[00:51:38] So our plan was that, you know, Julian was going to stay with me for until like the evening time and spend time with the baby and then go home and, you know, get everything cleaned up at home and, you know, cook and like just really prepare for our homecoming the next day. But once he left the hospital, he couldn't come back into the hospital. So I ended up being there alone for the majority of the time.
[00:52:02] Lisa: Did they warn him that that was going to be the case before he left?
[00:52:05] Alissa: [Yes.] But it wasn't made clear that I would have to stay an additional day with the baby until the next morning. And he was already gone at that point. There was a pediatrician who came by, who is actually like, I don't want to say he wasn't nice.
[00:52:21]He was nice, but he was just a little gruff and ornery, I guess. I don't know. And he came in the next day and quickly just was explaining what was going on with the baby and then said that we had to stay and there was no way around it. And that was it. And so I was, I was kind of upset about that.
[00:52:39] I really just want to go home. Who likes being in hospital? I mean, nobody. So that part was really hard. And it was hard feeling like I was alone the whole time and I know nothing about babies and like, I didn't really babysit much when I was younger and I had no idea what I was getting into.
[00:52:56] And so I felt like I was insistent on having the baby there with me in the room because she's my baby. And like, I just felt weird about sending her the nursery, So I did have some, like, a lot of bonding time with her, just her and I, and, like the baby nurses kept insisting, like you need to sleep and you know, we're going to take her, we're going to take her.
[00:53:16] And I just felt like there was something about that that didn't feel right to me. By the second night, however, like I had not slept at all the first night and the second night I was like, alright please, let's take her to the nursery because I really need to sleep. But they were really good about it. And just like taking care of me and making sure that I was feeling okay.
[00:53:32] Lisa: And was this a shared room?
[00:53:35] Alissa: No. I requested a private room, and then it ended up that I didn't have to pay for it.
[00:53:42] Lisa: Woo-hoo! That's amazing.
[00:53:46] Alissa: Like I called the financial department the next day and you're like, Oh, due to COVID there's no charge.
[00:53:50] And I'm still waiting for a bill. Cause I'm like, this can't be. So we'll see. But, yeah, it was just me. And like I just spend a lot of bonding time with the baby, but I think in regards to the first month of motherhood, I really want to just talk about my breastfeeding experience because I kind of approached it the same way that it did the epidural.
[00:54:10] Like it'd be nice to do, but I didn't feel that strongly about it. Of course I had read about all the benefits and I had heard that it can be challenging, but I just never really focused on that or prepared for it because I was so focused on the horrors of childbirth, which is ridiculous looking back. And so when they asked me in the hospital if I wanted to breastfeed, I just said yes, because why would I not even want to give it a try. And it was extremely challenging for me. And I don't know, there was something about it that just wasn't clicking . It would work every time a nurse would come in and like get the baby to latch.
[00:54:46] But if I were alone with her, it was so, so difficult and she would be screaming and like, she was tiny. I mean, she's seven pounds when she was born. But to me it still felt like she was so delicate and small, and I really didn't know how to maneuver the baby or like I was just being overly cautious.
[00:55:04] And I was worried. And it was nerve-wracking. Cause she would just be like red in the face, screaming if it wasn't working and she was hungry and I would call for a nurse and it would take a really long time to get assistance. And so like that was a really, really harrowing experience, but I was committed to continuing to try and they had lactation consultants come by many times and I just started to feel like there was something wrong with me that I wasn't getting it.
[00:55:31] And it wasn't as successful and it was painful. And, I don't know. I know that like a lot of people say that it's very painful in the beginning and that just people kept telling me and magically one day it just clicks and it goes away and you and your baby will get it. And. I just kept plowing through, even though it was really difficult for me.
[00:55:51] And I still felt like with COVID, I would have had someone come to my home and like really given assessment and help out and like get us through it. And I don't really do well learning things virtually and even like working virtually that I had to work from home for the past few months, it's fine.
[00:56:11] But it's like, no, I wouldn't choose it. I'd rather go in and meet face to face with people. It's just easier for me to grasp things that way. And so, like I just continued suffering that like really felt like I needed to push through and see if I could do this because there were moments that it was, you know, you are bonding with your baby and you are providing nourishment. And there's something about that that feels really beautiful and unique. And so I just wanted to continue exploring that. But the other side of it with that breastfeeding was so isolating for me because I was the only one who could do it.
[00:56:49] And you know, my husband is wonderful and he's on bonding leave as well and has been helping out a lot with the baby and around the house. But this was the one thing that he couldn't help with. And I felt like I couldn't get up off the couch and I would nurse her and then he would sit with her, we put her down just so I can go take a shower.
[00:57:09] And like, you know, I'd be in the shower and I could hear her crying and it was like, she wants to eat again. And I would just feel like there was, there was nothing else that I could do. And I started to meet every feeding session with fear and, yeah, I don't know. I just felt like something about it was really lacking for me.
[00:57:30] And I felt like it was, no, I didn't want to say, I felt like it wasn't the right thing because I just continued to feel like I wanted to make this work.
[00:57:38] Lisa: Do you feel like it was a hit on your mental health? Like it was starting to really affect that?
[00:57:43] Alissa: It was, I was getting upset. I would start feeling like I was angry. I would get annoyed with the baby cause she would, she would have her hands in front of her face or she'd be turning the wrong way. But she gets very hangry very quickly and maybe that's common with babies. I don't know, but it was just extremely intense.
[00:58:04] It was really hard to get her to latch on. If she did latch on and it was really painful. I would sometimes just suffer through it because I couldn't readjust her because she would just start screaming. And then the whole session would like--oh, it was awful. It was really harrowing.
[00:58:19] Lisa: It's really fraught emotionally, isn't it? You're taking me back to the struggles I had with both of my babies. You just don't even realize before you get into it, how emotionally fraught it can be.
[00:58:31] Alissa: Yes. Yes. And I felt like. You know, I still do it six weeks later and every time something goes wrong, I'm like, "What did I do? Or what didn't I do? And how come I can't read her cues? And why don't I know immediately what to do to stop her from crying or fix this?" And so I just kept feeling like I was inept and it was me and I was blaming myself and I don't think I, and you're very emotional when you come home from giving birth, like. I don't think I've cried more in my life than I did in the first three weeks being home with her and a lot of that had to do no, or like, I feel like it all had to do with breastfeeding. I felt like I could deal with the sleep deprivation. I could deal with the shift in my life and my husband's life. And, you know, yes, that's still really difficult. And like, you are in a sense mourning your previous life, but I just felt like I couldn't deal with that anguish and that I was becoming somebody I really didn't like, and it was starting to scare me. I didn't want to go into feeding my baby feeling scared. I didn't want to go into it feeling angry and it just got really, really hard. And it wasn't until we had gone to the pediatrician. I think I had requested to go in because I wanted to see if she was gaining any weight.
[00:59:53] And so, she had lost weight in the hospital, which I know is very common, but they like terrified me when I was actually in the hospital. You know, they're like, she's looking yellow and she's lost all this weight and we need to supplement ... so we went through all of that and she had not gained enough weight. She was three weeks old and she had not gained enough weight. I think they wanted to see her double the amount that she had actually [lost]. And then they had suggested, you know, breastfeed and then also supplement with formula, which we got home. We had every intention of doing that. I don't even know where it turned over for me, because I still felt like it, it, it, wasn't how I wanted it to be. Like, I didn't want to have to breastfeed and then stop and then get a bottle. And if she often would fall asleep when she was nursing, like into a coma sleep. And I just, I don't know, there was something about it that just didn't seem ideal to me. And it just got to the point where it was like that next morning, I was trying to nurse her and she was screaming and it was painful and it wasn't working and something in me just snapped.
[01:00:58] And I felt like I just had to give this up because it really was messing with me. But there's so much, there's so much guilt tied to that. It was really hard, but once I actually, I got up, I got a bottle. I fed it to her. She took it. She went to sleep. And that whole day I was just doing an experiment to see like how this works and how it feels, and like giving myself a break.
[01:01:20] And I had every intention of doing that the next day as well. And like, I was giving myself that weekend to really decide what I wanted to do. And yeah. Like I started pumping just to see how much I was getting and it was negligible the amount that was being pumped and it was, none of it was enjoyable to me.
[01:01:36] And it's hard for me to say that because I know that there are such staunch supporters of breastfeeding, and in an ideal world, if it were easier and if I wasn't becoming this person that I hated, then yes, of course I would have stayed with it. But for me, and my marriage and my family, I felt like I had to just let go of that.
[01:01:54] And once I did that, I've not once looked back. I have no regrets whatsoever, I felt like a completely different mother. Like I could be with my daughter in a totally different way. And I still bond with her. And, even like, you know, bottle feeding again, like the way that you look into giving birth with a mask on where it's like, "Oh my God, it's going to be stale and horrible."
[01:02:16]And there are a lot of things that I've read where they say bottle feeding, it's stale and horrible. And you know, you're not really connecting with your baby. And I haven't found that to be the case at all. It's still sometimes hard because people ask and maybe it's not their business to be asking whether or not you're breastfeeding.
[01:02:31]People I'm not really that close to will ask that question. It is really personal and it still feels hard for me to say no, because I know they're maybe they're silently judging me and. it doesn't feel very good, but I know that it was the right decision for my family. And I think I just really wanted to share that because that was something that I.
[01:02:52] Didn't really hear, being shared before. And I don't even know many friends who have switched to straight bottle feeding. I think maybe just, I have one friend who, who was really helpful for me, who had gone through a very similar experience and again, never looked back and, yeah, it's just not something that you hear very often because I think people are women or.
[01:03:13] I feel ashamed to share that and are scared to share that because there is so much positive literature out there about breastfeeding and, you know, but I just really felt like, yeah, it was a mental health thing. I didn't feel like I had any of these other signs for postpartum depression, but that one. And it was alarming enough that there were moments where I had to get up and give the baby to my husband because I just couldn't handle it.
[01:03:35] And that's not the kind of experience that I wanted. And I've not had that kind of experience since switching. In fact, I feel like I blossomed in a sense and sort of transformed into the kind of mother that I always hoped that I would be. And if bottle-feeding allows that, then that's what I'm going to do.
[01:03:51] Lisa: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. And as you were sharing that, I was thinking you took my online course, which is a little, I'm actually in the process of rerecording everything because I've improved things in the, I think three years since I rolled out that online course, and one of the ways that I've tried to improve it is in the breastfeeding, pumping, bottle feeding section to be a little more balanced and to really point out the importance of mental health in this, and to try to help take off some of the guilt. As I've gotten more feedback from students and in their experiences and sharing like you're sharing today, that mental health is so, so critical.
[01:04:36] And so I love the way that you shared that because we can't be healthy human beings or good parents, if we're mentally unwell, you know, and that breastfeeding can be kind of a breaking point for a lot of us. Yeah. So I'm glad that you are making the choices that feel healthy and good for you and trying to cast off the judgment. Cause there's way too much judgment out there.
[01:05:03] Alissa: Thank you for that. And I have every intention of actually, we didn't get through the breastfeeding section of the class and I just kept putting it off. And I was like, I'm going to get there. I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get there. And the baby came a week early.
[01:05:14] So then I was like, all right. I was just totally overwhelmed with everything. But, I think, yeah, it'll be really helpful for people. I think it would've been helpful for me to, to see that as well. And that is an extremely viable option and that there are ways of doing it and that there are mothers out there who are doing it.
[01:05:30] And so like, they don't have to live in shame or, you know, lie about it. And so I think, yeah, that would be really great for others to understand.
[01:05:42] Lisa: Great. Well, are there any other things that you haven't gotten to share that you wanted to share before we close things out today?
[01:05:50] Alissa: I don't think so. I think I really just wanted to drive home the "don't be so scared" and granted, like, yes, you know, bad things can happen, they do happen, but I don't know, even given all of the difficulties of childbirth and postpartum and recovery and all of that, it's like at the end of the day, I have this wonderful little baby and, you know, you don't focus on all the negative aspects of it when that's the end result.
[01:06:21] And when you're in the moment, like either things that I thought that I was going to be so bothered by really didn't bother me at all, because you're just so hyper focused on, on the end result. And you, I don't know, it's labor brain; you go into a different part of your mind and you're just suddenly not as afraid or worried about everything. You just do what you have to do, and it's totally worth it.
[01:06:48] Lisa: Wonderful. Well said. Thank you so much, Alyssa. This has been lovely. I've loved hearing all of these details about your journey into motherhood. I really hope that we can meet face to face, like in person in the flesh.
[01:07:03] Alissa: Thank you. And thank you for all that you're doing and all that you've done. It's been immensely helpful for me and I love listening to the podcast. So it's been great. Thank you.
[01:07:13] Lisa: Absolutely. All right, well, I'll let you get back to motherhood. And again, thank you so much for taking the time today. Have a good one.
[01:07:23] Alissa: You too.
[01:07:24] Lisa: Take care. Bye
[01:07:25] Alissa: Bye.