Just before their due date, Sarah & Spencer receive an urgent call from their obstetrician saying they need to be induced immediately if they want Spencer to allowed to support Sarah in labor. Not wanting to give birth without support, they heed the call and head to NYC’s NY Pres Weill Cornell for an uncomplicated vaginal birth. They describe the ways in which the environment was different in light of the pandemic, including testing, wearing masks, the hospital feeling quieter than normal, and more. They both share that, while they were grateful that Spencer was able to be present to support Sarah through labor and to be present for the birth of their baby, it was very disappointing that Spencer wasn’t allowed to go with her and baby to the postpartum unit and how Sarah regretted agreeing to the default shared room after birth. Sarah also shares how she would have gone home with baby sooner, but baby didn’t pass the first hearing test so she did have to stay for the standard 2 days before being reunited with Spencer at home. They share a bit, too, about the first ~3 weeks of parenthood and adjusting to life with baby.
Episode Topics:
How Covid-19 has affected their work
Parental leave
Not loving pregnancy and the pressure we put on ourselves, struggling with undiagnosed prenatal depression
Getting an urgent-sounding call 2 days before due date from OB saying they need to be induced if they want Spencer to be allowed to support Sarah
Waiting in lobby for 2 hours before being admitted for induction
Spencer having to leave ~1.5 hours after birth when Sarah transferred to postpartum unit
Backing up to share details about the induction
Going around 7 hours before water breaks and feeling a welcomed pressure release
Things gradually get more intense over the next few hours, get epidural
Progressing from 6 ½ to 9 cm in only about an hour
Pushing stage description
Spencer’s description of how sad it was to leave with a bunch of stuff, including the heavy car seat, to go home
Coming back 2 days later to pick up Sarah and baby
Spencer’s insights on staying flexible in birth
Sarah’s insights on adapting to rapidly changing babies
Resources:
Birth Matters Covid-19 research & resources for expectant parents
Birth Matters NYC Group Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria / virtual through the pandemic)
Birth Matters online, on-demand comprehensive childbirth prep course
The Root Therapy NYC (support groups for new & expectant parents)
Doulas Are Going Virtual - NY Mag article that starts with Sarah’s & Spencer’s story
Expecting Better by Emily Olster
Transcript
Lisa: You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast Episode 35.
Spencer: Then we had an hour, I think, maybe an hour and a half to hang out with Davis, and then they're like, "All right, later. You can't..." They wouldn't even let me walk her over or anything. Which, again, like, I can rationalize this. I can understand it, but like, it's a pretty tough thing. And then you spend—she spent two more days, and, you know, you don't have those days.
Sarah: The hardest part was like, basically they're like, "Okay, get in this wheelchair." And then they started to wheel me away. He's like, "Wait, are you guys leaving?" I'm like "Wait. Oh my gosh." And then they're like, "Who's going to carry your stuff? "And I'm like, "I don't know. What do we do?" And he's like, "I'll do it." They're like, "You can't come." And then these two people are talking about what to do with your stuff. And you're like, "I'll carry it." "No, you can't have it on the chair." You know, it's just like this weird complexity, and you were just, like, looking down the hall and like, waving. It was just so somber and terrible. Honestly, it was, like, the hardest part, one of the hardest parts.
Lisa: Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions.
Sarah: Thank you.
Spencer: Thank you.
Lisa: So would you like to share how long ago you gave birth, as well as maybe what you do for a living?
Sarah: Absolutely. At three weeks ago yesterday, I guess, so March 22nd was when our baby was born in New York City. Yeah, so we're three weeks into this journey. It was right in the midst of the pandemic hitting the city very intensely.
Spencer: It was, like, really in the middle of the shift from it happening somewhere else to it being, like, a thing that New York was really grappling with and making large municipal changes as a result of. So it was quite a high-pressure moment for us.
Sarah: Yeah, it was one day before our due date, too, was when she was born. So we were very close to that. And before that, had grappled with whether we would leave New York to go be with our families who no longer could travel from Colorado or Florida to be with us. So deciding whether or not it was safe or not safe, or what was the best decision for our family at that time. Because we know we'll be so isolated here with a newborn. So I work for a boutique consulting firm, doing the business operations, which is a remotely-run company already. So I've been working from home for over a year. So that hasn't been a drastic change in terms of this pandemic time for me.
Spencer: I'm an operations executive in a global ad firm. That's only been the last six or eight months. Prior to that, I was a management consultant. But I really focus a lot on how firms organize and build and ship in global teams. So, again, it's funny because, like, we're pretty well-equipped professionally for, like, the challenges of this in some ways. You know, it's like, things like remote tools and video calls and how you, like, work even when you're not in the same room are things, like, I think both of our jobs deal with on a daily basis. So it was kind of—there's, like, elements of this that have felt like second nature. And then, you know, the baby —it's been more complicated, because I don't think anybody expects—like, well, we certainly didn't expect to go into month one of having our newborn and not have any ability to see— much less ask for help from—family or friends or anybody else. Or even paid help. I mean, I think that we talked about family a lot, like, "I don't know, like, how much rope do we want to give them as New Yorkers?" You know, your spaces can get pretty tight. It's not like we live on some palatial suburban estate, you know, we have, like, a New York apartment.
Sarah: We have a big New York apartment, because we live in Long Island City, not Manhattan, now. So.
Spencer: But, you know, we were kind of like, "OK, like, even family can't come, or we'll limit family stuff. Like, we're gonna hire, you know, a nanny, or a nurse, or some sort of support, and we'll have our friends." We have a few friends who've also recently had babies and stuff. And then the shoe drops here, and it's like, "No, can't talk to anyone." I mean, you can talk to them, but you can't see them. So it's just a pretty massive expectation subversion. And I think we both pride ourselves on our sort of flexibility. We're not hyper-planners. We certainly didn't—we tried to approach the birth with a lot of, you know, a lot of intent, but a lot of, like, flexibility. And we were careful about not having a birth plan that was just a set of rules that were really fragile. But instead, you know, kind of like just sets some guidelines and guardrails. And then, you know, I don't know. You get a call where it's like, "Hey, maybe if you don't go have a baby tonight, then you guys won't even be able to be together." Yeah. So that's kind of like where—the situation that we found ourselves in
Lisa: And Spencer, were you already working home from home, too? Before we had to?
Spencer: Maybe by a couple of days. I go to our offices. We have three offices around New York. But the one I go to is in Herald Square, so Midtown for the non-New Yorkers. It's not a bad commute. It's only about 15 minutes from our house, and no train transfers, which is great, but it's not, you know—it's a conventional office set up. But we had—we actually made the call a couple of days before our whole office had, Sarah and I did, for me to start working from home just because, just out of a sense of conservatism with the baby, you know, I just wanted to limit...Offices are, you know, office and train every day didn't seem like the place to be with a potential newborn. But, no, I mean, my company is not a remote company. Though we've adapted pretty effectively, I think. People like a lot of—there's things that people love and things that people hate, depending on how suburban your house is, it seems.
Lisa: Yeah. That makes sense. How much can you separate yourself from the rest of the people in the household?
Spencer: We know one guy who's like, "Yeah, I'm, like, smoking brisket every day. This is like a vacation!" and everybody else is like, "Yeah, we don't like you very much." We like being at home. Like, Sarah and I like—I love to cook, we both love the cook, and I think we enjoy our space, but, man. You know, you really realize, at least as an urban person, how much home is, like, the restaurants that you walk to, and the parks that you go to, and all of these things that are, like, in the one or two block blast radius that, you know. I mean, I don't even think we take him for granted, but you just don't ever think that your access to those things is gonna be so limited, you know? Now, like, I like to shoot photos, and I've been walking around taking pictures of the storefronts look like our favorite restaurants, because I'm just, like....
Sarah: A lot of them are closed right now.
Spencer: I hope they don't go away. Yeah. You know, again, all that would be tough enough, I think, just as the two of us, but as new parents, it's been.... We do pretty well. But, like, there's a lot of moments where, like, this is the time when you'd call your mother or mother-in-law, or this the time when somebody would help you. Or you could get somebody to bring you a meal, or whatever, you know.
Lisa: And how long do you guys have? Are you both on leave right now?
Sarah: I'm on leave for four months. Yeah, my company is very generous, and, you know, it's a good plan and policy in place that's really good for us.
Spencer: My company gives five months. I'm taking that not all at the same time. It's frankly pretty straightforward to work from home. So I'm just kind of working part time-ish now, and then once things get back to normal, I'll probably take a month or so off, so that Sarah and I can take David to meet her family. But yeah, we're kind of in that in between space. You know, I don't have to work that much, so it's, you know, once or twice a day I sit on the computer for a couple of hours.
Lisa: Nice. Yeah, I think that's nice to a stagger your leave. Yeah, that's what a lot of my clients are able to do. It's nice when you can.
Spencer: Yeah. I mean, it's funny because, like, my mom was an investment banker. And I was talking to her about her experience when she had me. I'm her oldest. And, like, she and another partner in her firm had to do all these crazy—like, they didn't have even a maternity leave policy. And this is like the late eighties, you know, and they basically had to invent it and create a whole like operational model around, like, motherhood. And it wound up being very successful at the company, and, I think, adopted into, you know, who knows now what their policy is, but, you know, it was like—I don't think they could have called it maternity leave. You know, they had to find—it was something like, she and her partner, they would, like, trade off child care. And one would get, you know—they were coordinating time away and time present, you know. I'm like, man, that makes me really appreciative that some of us are—and feel really sorry for, like—you know, I think a lot of us in, whatever, the knowledge sector, you know, the office sector of the economy, have the benefit of policies like that. But there's a lot, you know, we have a lot of friends who are in the service industry and stuff who, you know,
Lisa: Don't get any benefits.
Spencer: Yeah, you know, there's not only no leave, but their incomes gone now.
Sarah: It's funny you bring that up about your mom because it made me really think once we were in this moment that my mom was in a very similar situation to us. Because we were in Japan when I was born. And so she was totally socially isolated by herself, with no one to help. No family except for my dad, who worked full time, like, basically the minute that I was out. Because that's just how things work there,
Spencer: I don't know why she's so upset.
Sarah: I think we have a little gassy baby.
Sarah: Oh. Ow. That's rough.
Sarah: Yeah, she's having a rough day.
Lisa: Sorry.
spk_2
Yeah it's interesting to, like, see, just how those policies have evolved. I think it's easy to—I was talking to one of my younger siblings, and I think they just sort of took it as a matter of course. And I was laughing, because, I mean I'm 15 years on in my career, and it's really only recently that you could—I mean, I don't know. Maybe I've been in a segment of the economy that's more conservative or something in its constructs of gender roles. But, you know, there wasn't like a lot of guys that I can remember that were taking off big swaths of time to, you know, go be fathers. And the ones that did were generally, like, the guys who had gotten sort of off of the career rocket and were in the sort of maintaining space. You know, and I don't think that that has to be true at all. I'm glad that we're challenging those assumptions, and, I think, hopefully building better workplaces and environments because of it. But, you know, it's funny to be in a moment where, like, this thing has happened that's just sort of forced a number of assumptions about, like, the structure of society and knowledge work to be called into question, where—I don't know, I mean, I've had clients for 10 years that have said, like, how we could—like, "Remote work just couldn't—like, we could just never do that. We're a bank, right? We're a bank, we can't do remote work." And those guys are calling me now, like, "Hey, how do we, like, set up a secure video environment?" Yeah, it's funny how you think you can't do something until your business is gonna fail if you don't do it.
Lisa: Yeah, you have to.
Lisa: And I think it's the same thing here where, if we look at parenthood, motherhood as among the things in society—I mean, we want people to have babies, right? We want people to, like, raise good children and contribute to a positive, healthy, competitive society. And providing the tools to do that from the workplace standpoint, I mean, I think it's critical.
Lisa: It is. I absolutely agree. And our country has a long way to go to provide better leave.
Sarah: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Spencer: Totally agree.
Lisa: We've made, you know, baby steps, at least some companies have, and our state has, because now we have New York Paid Family Leave. But we have so much further to go, compared to other countries.
Sarah: Totally.
Spencer: Right. And it's funny because, like, you know, you know what you know. And so, like, as parents, or as, you know, I mean, my experience is mostly managing teams of, you know, relatively well—like, a narrow segment of the social construct. You know, relatively well educated, like, again, professional managerial-type people. And I'm wondering, I'm like, man, what are the other big issues that I don't see, or that aren't endemic to my, like, life or space or community that are really important for us to provide for, whether parenthood-specific or even—you know? I don't know, just, like, cracks in society,
Sarah: The evolution has come from the tech industry aging, at least in my opinion, because those young people who started companies now started having families, and they're like, "We need a solution to this." And before that, it was, like, "Spend all your time at work!" I did it, you know, like, I was in that movement. So it's funny to watch it evolve and change and then penetrate society.
Spencer: Right. Yeah, that's a great point.
Lisa: Well, let's get to your specific personal story. Let's kind of back up to your pregnancy. Maybe pre-COVID, or pre-getting real for us here in New York. So was there anything to note about the way your pregnancy went, and/or in what ways did you prepare for this transition into parenthood?
Sarah: Yeah. Pregnancy, to be honest, for me was really challenging, in terms of the loss of body control, not being able to do everything. Just feeling not great, mentally and physically. Just headaches, and...I think I had some prenatal, like, depression. Not diagnosed or anything, but just based on how I felt. Which was also scary for me, because everything you read is like post, you know, postnatally, what will happen? And so it was really challenging in the different steps. You know, in the beginning, it's the not feeling well and headaches and everything. And then it moves onto, like, you're sort of OK, but you're still in this in-between phase. You know, each phase had its own, its own thing. And I didn't have complications that were, you know, making that worse. It was just the process for me. And so, you know, that was a little bit scary. And just that unknown. So I would say pregnancy was very challenging for me, and I was somebody who was like—I'm into yoga and all these things. So I thought I would jump into this process and, like, love it. And I was surprised at my personal reaction. And I did feel bad about that a little bit, because you're like, "I should be loving this and feel all these things, and I'm not having those feelings." And what happens if this lasts post-baby?" You know, it was a little bit scary and daunting, and I know it was probably hard for Spencer. I know. Not probably. I know it was hard. But we, you know, we got through and made it.
Spencer: I think what was hard was, like, seeing that, and then seeing that contrasted with the narrative that's out there. Like, there's so much of this sort of—it's funny, because it comes from...you know, you can read, like, an Earth Mama blog. You can read like a conservative Christian southern mom blog. You can read a ...and they're all kind of like, almost sort of delusionally positive about, you know, the pregnancy experience and stuff, which I'm not—I'm not discounting if that was their experience. But I think there's a subtle pressure to, like, fall into the language patterns and reflection patterns that are there. And there's not much space made for, like, "Maybe you just really hate this. And it's really hard." And maybe not even writ large, but, like, in the moment. Because, like, I know the feeling bad or feeling broken down, those are things that, like, we can rally around, and we've found ways to like, sort of ease or dance around—we're very active, so, you know, normally we're like big skiers together and bike riders. And, you know, obviously, those were things that, like, Sarah's ability to do while pregnant were curbed to halted. But, like, the thing that's hard to challenge is guilt. Because—and I don't think anybody should feel guilty about being like, "Yeah, my body is growing a person and it's really uncomfortable and I don't like it." I think you're allowed to not like that.
Lisa: Absolutely.
Spencer: And, yeah, it doesn't, like, it in no way to me is that a reflection on our love for our daughter or our excitement to have her. Though those things as well, like, you know, I think it's—there's this part of our process that was very, like, "Man, this is kind of intimidating!" It's, like, it's not obvious what to do all the time. You know, this is our first child. It's definitely a big transition. We're in some ways your typical—whatever would you want to call it, like, young professional urbanites.
Sarah: We travel at least once a month. So we were on airplanes all the time still, up until we couldn't. Until we were grounded. So we were traveling, and we would still go biking, like road biking and hiking, and that was good. There was a time in the beginning, very beginning, I couldn't, but then we did most of that stuff probably up until eight months. And then I just couldn't.
Spencer: I think that, like, there's this aspect of the experience—and, you know, it's funny for me because I, like, found myself trying to process my side of this. And there's not, like, a lot of conversation among Dads or among, you know, prospective fathers about, like, anything good that you go to, you can also have a sense of loss about what you're leaving, right? And, you know, as I'm so excited, we're so happy to be in this moment of, like, new parenthood and we've been excited for it. But at the same time you, like, look at—I don't know. I was talking to Christian the other day. A friend of ours who lives in Lower Manhattan. We were talking. He was like, "Oh, man, remember, like, that night we went out to this jazz club, and, you know, were out until three in the morning, and hung out with, like, the jazz players?" It's like, "Yeah, that was great. And that's probably not a thing that will be part of my life. At least for a very long time." That's OK. It's OK that that's the transition. We made that knowingly and intentionally, but I'm also—I feel OK being sad that that's a thing we left behind. And a lot of the narrative around this, I think, for both—certainly for women—and what little you can find men talking about this is so much just, like, unquestioningly positive. And, you know, I think people delude themselves a little bit sometimes. Because like, man, like, you're giving up a lot of things. And I think you have to know and be comfortable with what you're giving up to be really ...
Sarah: You want to be intentional.
Spencer: Yeah, exactly.
Sarah: So you have to be ready to give that up and intentional about it and understand what you're gaining.
Spencer: I just think, like, no woman—or no person—should be made to feel guilty for, you know, encountering a complex emotional moment with emotional complexity.
Lisa: That's such a great point. Yeah. Yeah. These things can co-exist. That joy that is having your baby—at the same time, it can suck sometimes that, you know, you can miss that life that freer pre baby life. Absolutely. I think often people feel like those can't co-exist. But because—exactly what you're saying. We are complex human beings. It is complex, and those can co-exist, and we need to give ourselves that space and permission. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.
Sarah: It's something that we've really been trying to be intentional—and before, or, like, during pregnancy, we were trying to be very intentional about that. And how to maintain that as much as we could be going into the unknown. So now, you know, we're here. We're in the unknown, I guess.
Spencer: Yeah, having made the transition feels like—I feel much more at ease than the last, like, six or eight weeks just because—so much buildup, you know. Now we're like, "Okay, we're doing the thing." We're like, "Yeah, yeah, like, she poops. And cries and stuff," but, like, you know, those are encapsulated challenges, they're not—and they're pretty known. You kinda know what to do. You figure it out. I think that's a good—I don't know how much you actually care about hearing from me about our pregnancy.
Lisa: I absolutely would love to hear. Yeah, I was gonna say—so you guys stayed as active as you could. That was one great way to prepare for this transition. I mean, it sounded like a very natural extension of what you already were doing. Were there other ways that you prepared for this transition?
Sarah: We did the course. We had a doula who we were not able to have with us at the birth. But she was amazing. She's who suggested the course to us, by the way.
Lisa: Oh, nice. And you guys took my online—the online version, right? Yeah. And how did you find your doula?
Sarah: Through a friend. I mean, I did a lot of, like, online research, and felt totally lost in the sea of—it was, like, almost online dating. I actually haven't experience that, but what I would assume it's like, where you're looking at all these things and you're like, "I don't know who to call or who to pick. And this isn't helpful, in terms of, like, how do I decide which one of these 100-200 people to call or pick or have an interview with?" And so I looked through that, e-mailed a couple, and then got a suggestion from a friend who wasn't sure if this person was still taking on clients. And luckily, she is, minimally, because she does courses also here in New York. So I called her or emailed her and she took us on, so I was so grateful for that. And she was so instrumental in helping us develop our, you know, plan, or figure out what we wanted, if we could have it.
Spencer: Set intentions and expectations. I think it's funny, you know, I come from a space where, like, I have a lot of trust in the work that medical professionals put into their understanding of the world and stuff. And I was like, not sure what I thought about the doula experience. I don't It was more so. I didn't know what to expect. And like the way that some people describe it, it could be like really sort of earthy spiritual thing, and, like, that's okay if that's what you want, if it had been what Sarah needed, that would have been fine. But, you know, I think what we found, at least with Laura, was that she functions almost like a coach. And really, for both of us, which I found, like, a really cool style. So it was less, like, esoteric exercises and more, like, talk about what options are and like, "What have you been reading? Let's frame that in a way that we can actually interpret it," because, you know, the flood of stuff that you consume is overwhelming, and a lot of it's really flawed, right? A lot of it's not really evidence-backed, or, you know, it's conventional wisdom, but it's not been tested. I mean, even—we don't really drink much, or Sarah didn't really drink much, just because she didn't feel like drinking. But, you know, we leaned into some of the research around that and, you know, America, I think, partially because our medical system is so litigious, it's really driven at an extreme level of conservatism in terms of, like, kind of prescription away from, you know, sushi and drinking any alcohol and doing all this stuff. And it's like, what we've found, I think, certainly through some of our own reading, but with Laura's, that you can have a little bit more, like, personal kind of engagement with those things. And some of them are really true. It's like, you definitely shouldn't do that. And then there's other things where it's like, "Oh, this is, like, based on some one study that was done with 13 people in 1968, and also all the people who were drinking were on cocaine. So, like, maybe that was the reason."
Lisa: Did you guys read that book "Expecting Better"? It sounds like you did.
Spencer: We did, yeah.
Lisa: I was like, "This sounds like that book."
Sarah: That was a really amazing book to us, especially after reading "What to Expect When You're Expecting." Like, we read a lot. And I was like, "Oh, my gosh." Like, I was so overwhelmed by that one. And he was like, "No more reading until I figure some stuff out." And I was like, "Let's read this book and that was really helpful for us.
Spencer: I use Twitter a lot. I find a lot of social media to be noisy and full of kind of, whatever, like, too much information. But the thing that I really like about Twitter is you can go to people, you can find these sub-communities for almost anything, and they're really built around experts, and people who are like, "Yes, my entire career is in like, you know, mother researching, or whatever." And so, like, I just went to those communities. I was like, "My wife and I are, like, having a baby. Where do we start? You know, we're pro-social, or whatever. And so we got like, some recommendations for the Emily Oster books, as well some other stuff and, like, “Bringing Up Bebe." Yeah, and, like, my family are from southern Spain. So they have, like—there's a lot about, like, the French approach that, you know, I think I found appealing. So that book was pretty cool for us, too. And then there's some point where we're like, "Wow, we've sort of consumed as much information as you could get without experiencing it." And so there's just this diminishing return where you can't like—you know, I could have passed fact tests all day long about, you know, what would happen in the birthing process and the pregnancy and, you know. But, like, there's just a difference between the factual knowledge and the pragmatic. And so I think we were kind of like, "OK, like, now is the moment to just be done." That was probably as we entered the last trimester.
Sarah: And then you just wait. You're like, "Okay. What do we do?"
Spencer: We did one thing that I know a lot of New Yorkers can't do. I don't know that I ever thought we would, but we actually bought a car, or we leased a car. Which has been—it was really awesome, because it gave us the chance to get out of town a little bit easier. And so, like, you know, even—we wound up just doing one by ourselves. But, like, if somebody is a New Yorker and they're, like, in a group of friends who are, like all about that time, like my friends and I had, we talked about maybe all leasing a car together or something like that, just to give ourselves a little, you know, it's like the public transit version of having car, I guess.
Lisa: Right. Yeah. I've had friends who shared a car.
Sarah: Have you?
Spencer: And, like, that was really nice. Like, it just gave us—you know, probably once or twice a month, we were able to get up and go hiking, or just kind of get out of town a little bit.
Lisa: I'll bet you're glad you did that.
Spencer: Yeah, it was really great. So that's like—that was, I mean, that was basically in preparation for having her. And I think that was good. What else did we do?
Sarah: So we did all the reading. Sorry, I'm going through this in my head. We did all the reading...
Spencer: Had Laura.
Sarah: We had Laura.
Lisa: Was that Laura Vladimirova?
Sarah: Yeah.
Lisa: Oh, she's so great. Love her.
Sarah: Yeah, she's amazing. And we still talk to her and she's helping us with our gassy baby. And we, you know, prepared by having our families—who were supposed to come out, and sort of...Oh, we moved to a two-bedroom apartment because we had a one bedroom, which was another thing. We had to move a month after our baby was to arrive. We were lucky enough to cancel our lease a month early and found an apartment just before all of the COVID started to happen.
Spencer: We were previously in a—it was nice, but it was like a one bedroom apartment that was privately owned, it was a condo. And for some reason, the owner was like, "Okay," we just assumed that we were gonna be able to stay. And when we called her, she was like, "No, we're not going to extend the lease." Which, I don't know that that's even legal anymore. But, you know, whatever. Like, we're like, "Well, that's really sucky. Because it's 30 days after our due date. That seems like a terrible time to move."
Sarah: So we moved less than a month before we were due. Like, I think we were in the apartment—we've been in this apartment...
Spencer: Six weeks.
Sarah: Maybe. Yeah. So we moved. There was all this uncertainty before COVID and then it really hit us. Nothing had changed drastically while I was pregnant until moving, really. It was like the last two weeks is when, I think to 2 to 3 weeks before we were due, before we had the baby, that things really started impacting us in our bubble, I guess. So we probably, we had, you know, friends over and had gone out, like, maybe twice, and that it was for 3 to 4 weeks before we were due before we really got locked, you know, like, socially isolated, and had to wait. And so it wasn't extremely impactful until the end. But then we were just like, "Well, we're stuck. We're kind of in this not-sleeping-well moment, not eating a lot, because you're just, like, at full capacity in terms of body. And uncomfortable. So I already had felt... we had wound down. Yeah, I was, like, ready for...
Spencer: We knew the baby could come. So I was like, I just had this weird—I'm like, "Man!" The worst thing I could imagine is if, you know, I had—I'm not a huge drinker, but, like sometimes you hang with your buddies and you have four or five beers or something. You know, I'm like, "Man, that would just be the worst situation to be like a football game's worth of beers in, and then be like, 'Oh, time to go to the hospital.'" Like, so we had really just calmed down and
Sarah: We had already calmed down a long time before that. But, yeah, you, like, decided to stay...
Spencer: And then, yeah, then we got this phone call. Oh, yeah. So we got a phone call from, like, a weird number, and I think, like everybody who's getting crazy robocalls these days, we just, we don't answer if we don't know what it is.
Sarah: It was Saturday night.
Spencer: Yeah, it was Saturday night, and our baby was due Monday. And it was funny because, like, I'd kind of planned that week assuming that—because early indications were that, like, Sarah wasn't gonna birth on the due date. They were kind of expecting...
Sarah: Like first babies usually are...
Spencer: You know, she wasn't really, like, dilated yet, or anything. And we get this call from our OB, who is fantastic. But she called, and she's like a very—she's kind of a fun personality, but she's pretty...this is not a person that you expect to be shaken at all. And she left this like, very intense sounding message, like, "Hey, I need you guys to call me back as soon as you can." Which is a weird thing to get from your OB. And so we're like, "Uh-oh."
Sarah: I was like, "I haven't had any tests. I don't know what's going on. I was there on Monday. I'm supposed to be there Monday. It's Saturday night. This is really, really weird. I feel weird." And I was like, "Maybe she had COVID and is nervous that we were exposed, you know, because it's, like, a week out." So I called her back. We called her back. Yeah.
Spencer: And she's like, "Look, you're, like, at the moment..."
Sarah: "You're ready to go."
Spencer: "You're ready to go. Like, I think you guys should come in. We should see if there's a way that we can, like, begin the labor process. You know, otherwise, because," she's like, "I just walked out of the conference call" and she's like, "Tomorrow they're separating laboring mothers from their husbands."
Sarah: Like, they're banning any guests to the hospital.
Spencer: Yes, they already, they had already told us that Laura couldn't be there.
Sarah: Yeah. So the week before, I was devastated because we had been told that Laura couldn't come because they had limited it to one guest that had to be husband. I believe they said that. It was like something It wouldn't even be a doula. Yeah, they wouldn't let you choose between who it was. And that was upsetting because in my mind, since we didn't have our families, she had been through the whole process with us and guided us, and just been there and was just, like, a source of calm and knowledge and, you know, a good guide for us to have during the process and then after. And so the week before, I was like, "Oh, my gosh, we don't even get to have her now, so that's devastating." You know, but we were like, "OK, we're OK." And then when they were like, "No partners," I was, "Whoa!" you know, that just, like, takes your breath away.
Lisa: This was the hospital—the first hospital in New York City to do this, to start prohibiting any labor support at all, because they had a couple of cases where women showed up in labor and they didn't know they were positive. And they ended up developing symptoms in labor, exposed, like, 30 people. And so that put the fear into them where they just suddenly clamped down and said, "No partners."
Spencer: And it's a tough thing, because, yeah, like, I think that was up at Columbia, and it wiped out 1/3 of their staff, essentially, in one fell swoop. So I mean, I get there's the rational part of you that's like, "Okay, I understand that you have to protect against something like that." But at the same time, you know, it's not really precedented, at least in the history of Western medicine, to separate laboring mothers from their partners as a rule. And, you know...
Lisa: We know it's not safe for them to not have someone in the room with them. We can't expect staff to be there constantly.
Spencer: Yeah, I mean, especially with the way that NYP's laboring process works, like, it would have required an additional staff person to be there. Like, I mean, I was like, I played the role, not of a nurse, but of, like, you know, I just supported the labor practice very actively. And I'm like, "Man, if you didn't have me, then you'd have to have another person," which is like, it doesn't immediately solve that problem. And really, if you understand... I get that there are senior level hospital management staff that had to make a decision, and they had to make a very complicated decision. And I won't pretend to know better than they do, or even be looking at all the variables that they had to be looking at, but I can tell you that, like, it was pretty devastating to imagine, you know, a situation in which she would have had to birth alone. When we got there...
Sarah: We didn't finish the call. So she called and was basically like, "Come in tonight. Let's see what we can do." So we got to the hospital at like 10:30. It was just weirdly ghost town-ish, and we just waited in the lobby with check-in nurse for two hours, just sitting there. And she'd be like, "Someone will come get you soon." So we're, like, practically sleeping in the chairs. Not quite. Just waiting for...
Spencer: They gave us masks out there.
Sarah: Oh, yeah, they made us, they made us put on masks. And we just were like, "This is the weirdest feeling." Because you're just waiting to go be induced, essentially, and not sure what's going on, and told, you know, "Partners will not be accepted." And we're waiting like, "Oh, my gosh is this taking too long and they're not gonna let him in?" We didn't know, you know, we're just waiting there. So we finally got in and our doctor was there when we got there. She was on call, or I don't know what you call that, on duty for the night. And so she checked us and was like, "OK, it looks like, you know, things are progressing."
Spencer: She was at one centimeter.
Sarah: Yeah, before everything started. You know, before they started the actual induction and, they started the official process probably at, like, 1 a.m. Yeah. So then we were just in it, wearing our masks.
Spencer: I think the big thing was, you know, they came and you could tell it, like, caused some complexity for the staff there, because they there was, like, you know, probably some people who had walked out of that and they're, like, "Okay, no more husbands." And then there's a group of people who were like, "This doesn't go into effect until six tomorrow morning." And so we had a couple of people kind of giving me the side eye. And somebody was like, "Hey, look, just so you know, you're not gonna be able to go to the postpartum."
Sarah: And they tested me, upon arriving, for COVID.
Spencer: You know, I think that it was interesting because, like, I think that in our original thinking, being apart for the birth was really the wild thing to imagine. It was like, "OK, like, postpartum, it stinks, but, like, that would have been, you know, that would be fine." But, like, the truth was, you know, Sarah had, about a 14-hour labor, plus receiving Pitocin, then we had an hour, I think, maybe an hour and a half to hang out with Davis, and then they're like, "All right, later. You can't..." They wouldn't even let me walk her over or anything. Which, again, like, I can rationalize this. I can understand it, but like, it's a pretty tough thing. And then you spend—she spent two more days, and, you know, you don't have those days.
Lisa: You guys do any video calling?
Spencer: Yeah, they let us do that.
Sarah: Yeah, they definitely encourage that. I mean, the hardest part was like, basically they're like, "Okay, get in this wheelchair." And then they started to wheel me away. He's like, "Wait, are you guys leaving?" I'm like "Wait. Oh my gosh." And then they're like, "Who's going to carry your stuff? "And I'm like, "I don't know. What do we do?" And he's like, "I'll do it." They're like, "You can't come." And then these two people are talking about what to do with your stuff. And you're like, "I'll carry it." "No, you can't have it on the chair." You know, it's just like this weird complexity, and you were just, like, looking down the hall and like, waving. It was just so somber and terrible. Honestly, it was, like, the hardest part, one of the hardest parts.
Sarah: And then I, you know, you go to this room, and I had said, "I don't need a single, because if he's—if, you know, my partner's not gonna be there, it doesn't really matter." And then when I got there, I was like, "This was a really bad idea."
Lisa: Because there's, like, another crying baby, and more people coming in and out.
Sarah: Yeah, there's another crying baby. And I was like, "If my baby is waking your baby up, and vice versa, or I don't know what's happening. "Uh, luckily, the person who is in there I was checking out basically a couple of hours after I got there. But then you're just in this total isolation, right? Because it was just me and her. And then the trash person, or the temperature checker or the person who's, you know, I don't know, just all these things every couple of hours coming in, but it's just, like, me and her. And they checked her out, and they had said that they would take her to the nursery for whatever they do in the morning. Well, the nursery closed overnight for a deep cleaning, which was obviously a COVID thing. And so then it was just, like, us and all of the doctors and everything came to our room. So it was almost like being in—what I would imagine being in jail is like, because you're just in this little room, in your uncomfortable bed with your baby only, and no real support, because everyone's trying to stay away from you and, you know, keep your masks on, and all this stuff. So it was just a really intense two days for me personally, and just trying to, like, navigate that, you know, motherhood on your own in this crazy environment. So that was...
Lisa: So it sounds like they didn't do early discharge at that point. Because right now, I think, since then they've started sending people home much sooner, much faster.
Sarah: Yeah. So they had said that if, like, all looks good, they would. And, unfortunately, she didn't pass her first hearing test on one side. And so they wouldn't dis her just because they were concerned that we wouldn't be able to get in with a specialist due to everything that was going on. And they're like, "There's probably nothing wrong, you know, we just need to do this test again tomorrow," which she passed. But it was one of those moments where you're like, "Yes, I want to make the right medical decision and be responsible as a parent, even though this is torture."
Lisa: Yeah, yeah, because I was thinking I'm sure you wanted to just go home so you guys could be together.
Sarah: I literally just was in, like, survival mode. I had my little computer playing "West Wing" for 24 hours straight. No joke. Just in the background, because I needed that. Something going on. I went through all of my phone data, which was fine. I was like, "I don't even care." During that time just playing, you know, having something to normalize or humanize the experience. And then was just so happy to get home, you know, two days later and, like, take a shower and actually brush my teeth, and do all the things that you do as a person on the regular that you take for granted, you know, and, you know, be with my partner, and have him have time with his baby and bond, and all these things that he didn't get to do. And also just get a moment to take a rest and sleep for a minute.
Lisa: Do you want to talk at all about the labor itself and how that went? And did you have to wear your mask for the whole time?
Sarah: I was supposed to. I did not.
Lisa: Good for you. I can't even imagine having to do that.
Spencer: Yeah, there was a point at which the nurse was like—we had the best nurse, who was just like, yeah, she was like a grandma who's done like 8,000 deliveries, who just, like, knew what was up. And she just had the best manner, and so much empathy. And at some point, she was like, "Pull that [off]."
Sarah: It was just so hot. So, basically, when we went into this, my goal was to do as much at home as I could, make it as natural as possible, and that was obviously rocked by the news. And what we went to do. And so they gave me the Pitocin, and I was like, "Ok, I can handle this. This is good." Just breathing through the—you know, basically it was contractions immediately. They also used the balloons to open my cervix at the same time. So they inserted balloons, started the Pitocin, and were, you know, upping the level. And I was fine until about 8 in the morning. So from, like, 1 to 8 in the morning. And then it got really intense. But the contractions were like 1 to 4 minutes from whenever the Pitocin kicked in. So if I got it at 1, I don't know what it takes, like 20 minutes or something sometimes to start for people. So it was just like I had been having contractions every four minutes since then. And it's weird what time does during that, because somehow you fall asleep in between that, and you think it's been 15 minutes. And there was, like, a really large clock behind me. So I could look up and see this digital clock, and I'd like sleep, and be like, "Oh, that must have been 15 minutes," and look up and it had been like 2. I'm like, "This is so weird how this happens." And so, you know, my body was handling it and just, you know, breathing very deep and staying very, very calm. I don't know. I feel like I was very quiet. It was never very dramatic for me, until probably—so I also had not been checked again. So I'd been checked and they were, like, "Okay, you're at, like, four something? Four and a half. Was that at 8?"
Spencer: Sorry, you were at four centimeters at 8.
Sarah: Yeah, around that. But I thought they were going to come back much sooner and, like, in my head I'm like, "Okay, they're gonna keep me updated on where I'm at. So I know how much I have—energy, like in my mind, like how much I could take. And so I had, you know, mentally, been like, "Is someone gonna come check me and tell me where I'm at? Because this has been a long time and I'm just waiting." And so when they did that, they broke my water when they checked at 8. At that point. Which was the weirdest, most relieving sensation ever. Because, like, it doesn't feel good. But then all of a sudden, like, all that pressure that has been building up, and you just feel like this cylinder of pressure for nine months, is just gone in, like, a second. And you're like, "I can breathe." So that was...
Lisa: I haven't heard anybody describe it that way.
Sarah: Oh, really? Yeah. I don't want to give the wrong impression like it felt good, because it doesn't feel good when it happens. But the pressure of that release and just like having, I guess, more room in your body was everything.
Lisa: That makes a lot of sense. Was it a big gush?
Sarah: Yeah, it was definitely a big gush, and just, like, it was just, like, "Okay! Whoo!" That was great.
Lisa: Did you sleep a lot more after that?
Sarah: Yeah, not immediately, but, so, from 8 until 11, it got very intense. Where before I could, like, breathe through, and then I'd have a moment. We'd, like, talk. And, you know, it was obviously night, so I was like, "You sleep. At least one of us can be not—like, I'm just being quiet. One of us can be not tired." And so, 8 to 11 I was like, "Don't touch me. Don't talk to me." Just like, "I can't talk." You know, it was just really intense, and I didn't know where I was at that point. Which, to me, I couldn't, like, gauge, "Do I have enough to give to finish this, or can I not do this?" And I was just like, "I don't..." because the contractions were so intense at that point, and so constant, I just was like, "I don't think I can do this, because I don't know where I am, and I'm really upset about this because I wanted to do this on my own." And I'm like, you know, I was like, getting really disappointed in myself.
Spencer: Yeah, again, like, this narrative creates guilt around doing things that are, like, very normal, right? Like, so, to the decision to take or to use an epidural, which is fine in any circumstance, but it's certainly, it's almost unheard of not to in induction.
Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. It's a harder way to go, usually, for most people.
Spencer: And like, you know, it's a pretty high percentage medical procedure, it's not something to be taken lightly, but it's not like a–it's very common, you know. But we create all this guilt around it, and that's what I hate, right, because in that moment that decision should be made with clarity and as much simplicity as possible. But Sarah's gotta wrestle with, like, "What are the social expectations...[inaudible]?"
Sarah: So they were like, "We can bring in the team to, you know, give you an epidural," and I was like, "But I don't know if I want it," and they're like, "Well, you can just talk to them," and then when they got there, they did not just want to talk to me. Which I get. They're busy and whatever, but it was not as informative as I would have liked to, like, walk me through it, because I didn't want to–I mean, you read a lot. It's dangerous for the mom. I was nervous about getting a catheter. All the things, you know, the complications, not being able to walk anymore and go to the bathroom, which I had been already tied up to the IV and gone a 1,000,000 times because you can't quite tell if you have to go the bathroom or not a lot of the times at that point. So I was probably going every hour and really annoying everyone, because I have to unhook and hook and unhook and hook. And so that was–it was just all these things that were scary, and not wanting to, you know, hurt my body more, because you can't tell what you're doing, or if you're pushing, or if you're not, if you're doing it too hard or not. But I ended up going, or having the epidural, and it was extremely scary and not, you know–it's just a time they made Spencer leave the room, which is very common. But then you're just in this moment, and they're like, "Don't move." And I had a resident who was doing it, which made me more nervous, because it's your spine and you just don't know what's going on. And, you know, it took a few minutes to happen, and that was scary. But the minute it kicked in, I was like, "Okay, I'm good."
Lisa: That's the hope.
Sarah: Yeah, it was incredible. The difference that it made. I mean, I was still not thrilled that I had to do it, but it was, like, the best decision for me and us in that moment.
Spencer: And it let us be, like, back in the moment together, rather than, like, be separated by this wall of pain and coping.
Lisa: Yeah, there's such huge value in that. Yeah. And all the more in this time of the whole COVID thing, I feel like, you know, just, we need to give ourselves a break, in more ways than we normally might, you know? I feel like, just emotionally and physically. All of those aspects. Now I have a question. Was Laura–was she providing virtual supported at all? Was she able to do that? Or did you...
Sarah: She was happy to do it. I was totally just not in that headspace. Spencer was communicating with her.
Spencer: Yeah, I was texting with their and stuff, but it was, to be honest, like, our experience with the staff there on the OB and L&D floor at NYP is like, it was really positive. Like, once our, like, nurse who was with us the whole time got into it, she was good. Our doctor changed. It was a woman from the same practice. But Dr. Wu had to go home.
Sarah: We had the night shift, and we didn't want to communicate with her then because everything was calm and it was the middle of the night. So then we did the day shift, which was when everything was more active. We were in the active part of it.
Spencer: And, like, I think we felt very supported on, like, once we got into the whole thing. And so we were texting a little bit. I think it would have been just–this is not to say what anybody else does–but I think for us it would have been, like, a little weird and awkward, but more than anything, just, like, it's another thing to manage in the room.
Sarah: And it was fast.
Spencer: Yeah, we had a fast labor, right? Like, compared to some people, I mean, 14 hours start to delivery is efficient.
Lisa: Yeah, that's definitely efficient. Especially for a for an induction, because we're usually expecting that to take a day or more.
Spencer: Yeah. I mean, I think they had predicted we would be birthing in the middle of the night.
Sarah: When I was checked after right after the epidural, I was at, like, nine. So I was, like, there, basically.
Lisa: I was just about to ask you if you got checked before you got the epidural.
Sarah: No, which is what I asked. I was like, can someone tell me where I am? [inaudible]
Spencer: They did check you. You were at 6 and a half.
Sarah: Not before.
Spencer: They did. You were at 6 and a half. I knew, because she specifically talked to me about, she was like, "I can't believe she made it to 6 and a half. Like, I've never seen anybody go more than 4." The nurse did. And then you were–yeah, like, within an hour of the epidural, you were at 9. Or maybe even 9 and a half. I don't remember, but I shot out a text at that point, because that was like–the whole tone shifted. Like, "Alright, buckle up. This is–we're transitioning into, like, really active labor now." And I think you started pushing about 1, a little after. 1 :15, and she was born at 3:24
Lisa: And how was the whole pushing experience now?
Sarah: That was hard. That was hard because of the feeling-and-not-feeling at the same time. And just wearing yourself out in the most weird way, because you feel it, and you're working so hard you're getting out of breath. But you're not feeling all of it, but you're feeling a lot of it. It's an interesting.
Lisa: When you say that...I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Sarah: Oh, no. Go ahead.
Lisa: I was just going to say, when you say that, do you mean that you felt pressure, but not other sensations?
Sarah: Yeah, it's pressure and it's pain in a dull way. And you just can't tell what is going on, in a way, I guess. And, like, she kept coming down and going back up, coming down and going back up. And I was like, "I don't know. This is not working." Like, "What do I do? It's not..."
Lisa: Well, I mean, to some degree that is very normal and healthy for both of you. But yeah, the question is, like, to what extent is helpful?
Sarah: Yeah. What am I doing? And I think the more nerve-wracking part, at least for me– and we had read all of the stuff about not doing continual fetal monitoring, all of this. But that all goes out the window, the minute you're induced. And so all the beeps and all that. I mean, there's alarms going off all the time, and you have no idea what they are. And the staff is really good. And they do try and come in, but they can't come in immediately every time. And you don't know– is that the baby monitor? Is that my monitor? Is my blood pressure too low? Is my blood pressure too high? Like, all of these things that are happening. And so to me, at that point during, you know, the pushing, is when things started to kind of fluctuate more, and so the monitors would– and I think even a little bit before that, actually–the monitors would go off. And that was stressful. Like, that was getting my brain going. Because I'm like, "I know something is off, and I don't know if it's the baby. I don't know if it's me." My blood pressure kept dropping. And then, also, I would get really hot, and they were a little concerned that I was getting too hot, like, it was just all these little things. And I never knew, like, at what point would they be like, "OK, we have to do a C-section or something, or, you know, any of those things that happen. And so I think it made me more paranoid in that time than I wanted to be, because I was like "Is she okay? Is she not okay?" You know, "What's going on?" And then you're pushing and working so hard and they'd be like, "Oh, the baby's heart dropped a little bit," or "The baby's heartbeat is a little faster," all of these things. So that, mentally, was the most stressful part of the pushing and labor for me, and they'd be like, "Oh, you're getting hot. You need to breathe the oxygen," you know. So you're like, trying to take the breaks. But then you're like, "OK, I'm supposed to push," and then they would be, like, "Push differently!" And you're like, "I don't know if I am," like, "What does this mean?"
Lisa: I've never done this before?
Sarah: Yeah.
spk_2
It's funny, because it's so athletic. And I found myself being like, "Why don't you train for that? Before?" Then, I was like, "Oh, yeah, I guess you don't really wanna train pushing your baby out before it's time to do that." I don't know. Maybe before you get pregnant, like there could be a workout that's, like–it's more finessed than I would think.
Lisa: One of my former students is a trainer and he did some training with his wife in the deep transverse abs, because that's squeezing the baby down and out. And she had a really efficient pushing stage, and he's like, "I really think it was that strengthening. You know, the strength exercises we did."
Sarah: I bet. I really do bet. And I do think, like–I've always done a lot of, you know, classes and stuff that do focus on that, and I would have a good push. One thing that was interesting was that they kept saying, like, "Hold your breath and push," and all that was doing was forcing me to, like, turn bright red and the kind of, like, the energy would go up. And so I kept ignoring or trying to ignore everyone. And, like, I would exhale. And then they would be like "No," and I'm like, "No, that's more efficient for me," like, "I have to do this because it's not... Like, I think that's what's making my temperature go up." I mean, I wasn't saying that, but in my head, because I, like, all I'm doing, is just feeling like I'm gonna pop a blood vessel in my face, rather than push a baby out.
Lisa: Yeah, well. And just for listeners' benefit ACOG, American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, in the last few years has said specifically, women shouldn't be told how to push, even though the nurses are trained in doing that, that they shouldn't be–there's no one right way to push. And so whatever feels really instinctive to you is what we should go with. You know, even if it takes longer than this Valsalva maneuver, the directed pushing.
Sarah: Yeah. And I think the most beneficial thing during that was when somebody was putting their hand where the push should be going, for me. So it was when the doctor would come in. And so I had, like Spencer and the nurse on one side, or on each side of me. And then the doctor could be like, "OK, push here," and it was like, there's not a lot of feeling there. I mean, there is. It's a weird description. There is feeling there, so you can tell where to push.
Lisa: Are you talking about the pelvic floor?
Sarah: Yeah, yeah, she would, you know, be like "Ok, this is where you're focusing. And here's where to put the pressure," and that was really helpful. But then she'd have to go and manage her other patients, which is totally understandable. And then I would feel less focused or, you know, able to, like, direct that. So that was, like, frustrating for me in my head, you know, during that time. And then she ended up coming. But they were like, "Okay, wait here." And I'm like, “What? The baby's, like, here." So she was, like, not fully crowned but partially crowned, so they needed to get the rest of the team into the room to help. So the doctor's, like...
Spencer: Well, and also they wanted to stretch.
Sarah: Yeah. They're like, "You need to, you know, like, you need to stretch a little bit. So wait here." And I'm, like, "What? You want me to wait? What am I doing? I can't wait. I can't wait here." And so, at that point, I did. But I was just–that was the time where I probably got the most vocal, like, where I was just like, "I can't do this. I don't know what you want me to do. I can't just wait. I'm not sure what I'm doing." You know, I was confused and in that intense moment, and they got the team. And then, honestly, the next thing I know is just like, "bloop"–baby! And she was out. And I didn't even realize that Spencer had–they had, like, removed him and put someone else in his role. And I didn't know, because I was like, "Wait, where did you go?"
Lisa: Wait, where did he go? Where did he go?
Sarah: Yeah.
Spencer: They just pulled me off. So I got replaced with a nurse or an orderly or something. And, like, I was still in the room.
Sarah: Yeah, yeah. They just moved him.
Spencer: So I grabbed my camera and took pictures of her emergence. Which I'm sure Sarah's not super happy about, but I think they're kind of beautiful.
Sarah: Yeah. Then she was, you know, here. And, again, that's another interesting moment where they're like, "She's crying. Keep her breathing. Keep moving her around. And you're like, "Is she okay?" Even though, you know, it's like an interesting moment of, like, excitement, and then fear of, you know, is the fluid–does she still have fluid in her? Like–what's going on? Because is she, you know, is she breathing enough? And all that.
Spencer: They were really good about immediate skin-to-skin contact.
Lisa: That's what I was about to ask that. Was she on your chest?
Sarah: Uh-huh. Yeah, she was on my chest. But then, like, they'd be, like, "Okay, just make sure you keep poking her," and all this, and I'm like, "Is this enough?" You know, because you don't know.
Lisa: Right.
Sarah: Yeah. And then, so, we got to spend, you know, probably an hour, an hour and a half together as a family. But people are coming in and out, and making sure everything's good, and all that.
Lisa: Did you have to be wearing the mask during the pushing stage?
Sarah: I did not.
Sarah: She had a mask on except for like, the last hour half of pushing.
Sarah: And I also kept having the oxygen. So it was, like, oxygen in between there. So, like, I would have sort of a mask. I think by that point they knew I wasn't COVID.
Lisa: Okay, I was gonna ask you if you got your test results back at some point.
Sarah: They didn't tell me, but apparently, because they took me to a room with another person, they wouldn't have done that if they wouldn't have had the test back. So my, like, second nurse was like, "Oh, yeah, you're good." And I was like, "Oh. No one told me. Well, this is good. "
Lisa: Spencer, were you having to wear a mask the whole time, too? I would think so.
Spencer: Yeah.
Sarah: Yeah. So then we just sort of–it's really interesting how everything just clears out very quickly. And then you're just in there together, hanging, you know, just having those moments, and then they come in and they're like, "OK, let's go." You know, and you're done. It's really
Spencer: Yeah, that was surreal.
Sarah: That process was quick, but it feels slow and fast all at the same time, because you go from complete, like, I guess it's organized chaos, and then just quiet. And then you're trying to feed the baby and do all of these, like, things. Yeah. So it's just a wild, a wild moment. And then we packed up our things, and they wheeled us in different directions. Or wheeled me in one direction.
Lisa: Well, I'm glad it sounded like, I think you said that they did give you guys a heads up that he wouldn't be able to stay after, you know, more than like an hour and a half after the birth, right? Like, when you first got there, it sounded like.
Sarah: Yeah, they had just made that change as well, and, yeah, they told us right away, which was really, really good. And I don't think I realized–I assumed I'd get out in one day, too, because they said if things looked good, that they would release you early like you had mentioned. And so I didn't realize how hard that would be–the goodbye, right? And just leaving, that separation was to me devastating. I'm sure to Spencer, too. And then to know he's here at home by himself, probably, you know, paranoid and worried.
Spencer: It's weird, too, to just–like, again, just the whole thing, it was like a subversion of expectations, like even to the point where, like, we had brought the car seat with us and, like, bags and stuff, and there's, like a bunch of stuff that, like, the car seat and a few other things that we couldn't leave with Sarah. They, you know, they sent me packing with bags and an empty car seat. It's, like a, it's a sort of surreal weird thing to walk out the hospital by yourself with an empty car seat, you know, and leaving your wife and baby. Like, it was like a poetic, poetically sad moment for me. And we had found street parking, like, a few blocks away. And this is, like, heavy emotionally and heavy physically. And I was, like, not okay with this moment.
Sarah: That was another interesting thing is, as we were parking–we were trying to park, we were gonna park in a parking garage. They were like, "Yeah, just so you know, we might close. So don't leave your car here if you will need it ."
Spencer: "You can probably get it in the next couple of months," is what one guy said.
Sarah: So it was like, a weird, you know, that was, like, a weird moment. Entering the ghost town hospital was an interesting moment.
Lisa: And what was it like, Spencer, when you came back to get them? I'm sure you couldn't go into the hospital to help.
Spencer: I mean, it was, like, the way that the Cornell New York Presbyterian spot is, which is on the upper east side, if people don't know, you just, like, drive into a circular parking lot. And so they have, like, attendants there. And they'll, like, keep you moving, which is funny, because you're like, "She's like, on the elevator." They're like "Nope, it's been one minute. Go." And so you're, like, "Whatever," but, yeah, they were pretty...it was fine.
Lisa: So did you have to keep, like, circling around that? Kind of like in an airport?
Spencer: Exactly. I finally found a spot to, like, just sort of illegally park and, I mean, my experience with the police in New York is that they're kind of–they'll yell at you about that stuff. But they're not gonna just, like, write you a ticket on the spot. So I was like, "I'm just gonna park here until somebody comes up and yells at me."
Lisa: You know, what's so hilarious that you bring that up is just this week, or last week, I aired a story about couple who gave birth at Weill Cornell, and they got pulled over by a cop because they made, like, an illegal turn, in a rush, trying to get to the hospital.
Spencer: That's really funny. We talked several times about like, "Okay, if we get pulled over, our excuse will be, like, we're trying to get to the hospital." That's really funny.
Lisa: Funny, too that it's at that same hospital. Yeah. So anyway, so eventually she was brought down and came down.
Spencer: Yeah, and then, you know, we put her in the car.
Lisa: Reunited.
Spencer: Again, right. Totally. And the experience, like, just pragmatically, of having your own car to pick them and stuff was, I think, a little bit more in the domain of, like, things that were known to me. I mean, Sarah and I both grew up in suburbs, and while I don't relish everything about them, you know, like, the spaciousness of, like, the hospital part of things is kinda nice. And I don't know, you know, I don't know what the best thing to do for most New Yorkers is if you don't have a car, which I think most people don't–I feel like, I don't know. I actually don't know what people are going to do. By the time we were thinking through those logistics we had a car.
Sarah: I think we would have Ubered.
Spencer: Car service or something, probably, yeah. It would have been a pretty classic–we got married down at City Hall a while ago. God. And so, like, there's all these kind of classic New York, like, moments and images in our marriage. And I think that could be kind of a funny thing to have Sarah and the baby jump in the yellow cab.
Sarah: Iconic New York moment. "Don't break your water in my backseat!"
Spencer: Yeah. No, it was, all said and done, a pretty good experience. Hilariously, just because it's on the Upper East Side, they give you like this Chanel gift bag when you leave.
Lisa: Yes, they do. Fancy.
Sarah: Yes. For a very un-fancy experience. It felt very counter-intuitive to the entire experience itself.
Spencer: But now we're life-long Chanel customers.
Lisa: Well, this has been great. Thank you so much. Are there any things that you haven't gotten to share that you wanted to share or any insights or tips that you'd give expectant parents, especially in this time of the pandemic if they're giving birth in this time?
Spencer: What I think about is just, you know, when you start talking to people about things like birthing plans and stuff, there's always, like, some people really advocate it. And I think that stuff's good to think through what your expectations are, but I think it's a time when it's just really, really important to hold your expectations lightly, you know, and like, no matter what you–particularly for first time parents who, you know, we don't have baselines for a lot of this. So, like, you know, in almost every respect, and to do an extreme degree in our case, but I think that this is this is true in even the most conventional birthing moments, like, what you expect and what you think will be important is often not. And then there's things that are, like, really–that wind up being really important moments that you didn't even spend any time thinking about. And so, like, I think that if you can enter the space and be kind of, like, ready for that and be emotionally and mentally prepared, and just–I think for us, at every step, it was just, you know, a hug and a kiss and kind of like, "OK, like, we will take this on as it comes and respond to each moment as we can.
Spencer: Yeah, just expect the unexpected. And I think having–I mean, I'm so grateful for partnership during those moments. I think having the support person is everything. Because you both bring each other through the–and it doesn't matter who that is for you–but you bring each other through the tough moments. Because one person has to have a moment, and then you can take turns having your moments. Because we both have them, you know?
Spencer: Yeah. And that. Yeah, a lot of like, giving yourself a break, kind of, you know, giving each other breaks. It's okay, to like, be overwhelmed.
Sarah: And then parenthood itself has been good, in terms of postpartum. I feel much better postpartum than I felt, you know, being pregnant, which is not everyone's experience. And then I think the hardest part is in the last week she's become a gassy baby. So that's been, you know, the challenge of, she's very well-mannered–tempered, I should say–most of the time until she's, like, gassy or trying to, you know, have a bowel movement. And so that's been, you know, the new challenge for us and just things change all the time. Because for two weeks, it was like, "Yeah, we got this. We can do this. Okay." And then all of a sudden it shifts. Just suggesting to that over time and, you know, figuring out your normal, and adjusting that.
Lisa: Well, thank you so much, Sarah and Spencer. It's been wonderful. I appreciate your sharing your story. I think it's gonna really benefit listeners. And I'm going to air it as soon as I can.
Spencer: Cool.
Lisa: All right. Well, thanks again.
Spencer: Thank you.
Lisa: Have a great day.
Spencer: You, too. Bye.
Lisa: I hope the COVID-19 birth stories we've shared these past three weeks have been encouraging to you. Having to wear masks aside, I very much hope those giving birth through this time will be pleasantly surprised at certain aspects that might end up being better than expected. Okay, next week we'll return to our Caesarean stories after a three-week detour of COVID-19 birth stories. You might have heard this sneak peek a few weeks ago at the end of episode 32. But let's review real quick.
speaker_1: Amanda was having a pretty tough time.
speaker_2: This is when the lessons of your class came in handy for Grant, because he was amazing and was just—the entire time, you know, just holding my hand and just sort of whispering these mantras. You know, things like—I can't remember what you said. Just, you know, "Breathe, relax your jaw." You know, "You can do this.
speaker_1: "Just breathe through this one."
speaker_2: Yeah, it was... you know, as uncomfortable as it was at times, it was really like...my memory of it is sweet because of that, because it was such a—it was an intense time and it had that bonding effect on us as a couple.
speaker_1: Yeah, I've never felt so close. It was amazing.
Lisa: This week I want you to tell yourself this: "No matter the circumstances, I have everything I need to give birth to my baby." Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast. Until next week, please stay safe, wash your hands, and take good care of yourself.---END---
