Amidst the growing Covid-19 pandemic and stay at home orders, Natalie & Jackson share the stress they experienced late in her 3rd trimester when they learn that their hospital is no longer allowing partners to accompany the laboring person. They scramble to advocate for the decision to be reversed at Mt. Sinai East and are interviewed by multiple reporters along the way. They share how they were surprised when Natalie’s water broke a few weeks before the due date. Thankfully, baby waited to come just long enough for Governor Cuomo to issue an executive order requiring partners to be allowed in labor & the immediate postpartum. They’ll share aspects of the hospital environment across Natalie’s time in the hospital that will be relevant to anyone giving birth during a pandemic, such as there being very little traffic getting to the hospital, being tested for Covid upon admission, the hospital being uncrowded, and having to wear a mask the whole time they were there.
Episode Topics:
Preparing for birth - traveling to Spain for a month, taking birth class
Finding out late in pregnancy partners weren’t being allowed in labor and their advocacy efforts to feel like they were doing something to help change the situation before they gave birth
Looking to family (Jackson’s in New Zealand & aa%1Natalie’s in upstate NY) for support amidst the pandemic and hearing their fears instead of helping to assuage their own fears
Natalie gets barraged with people encouraging them to explore homebirth
Developing backup plans B & C just in case partners weren’t going to be allowed
Going into labor several weeks before due date - hospital pretty empty
Arriving at hospital, getting tested for Covid, having to wear a mask the whole time
Early (and very eager) discharge
Having a view from the laboring room of Central Park, which is all Covid patients and looks like a “white tent city” another reason to want to get out of the hospital
Backing up to a bit of her uncomplicated labor
Water broke early in the morning, contractions start soon after
Laboring for many hours before opting for epidural
Able to feel urge to push because epidural meds low enough at the time pushing began
Jackson drives home after the birth - calls parents, eats, goes to sleep
Next day, Jackson wasn’t allowed to visit but he needed to get some things done that they hadn’t done since baby came early
How it’s almost nice to be new parents when everyone has to be home so there’s no FOMO (fear of missing out)
The natural transition into life with baby
View from Mt Sinai East, credit: 4/15/20 NYTimes articie, Hilary Swift
Resources:
Birth Matters Covid-19 research & resources for expectant parents
Birth Matters NYC Group Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria / virtual through the pandemic)
Birth Matters online, on-demand comprehensive childbirth prep course
The Root Therapy NYC (support groups for new & expectant parents)
Transcript
Lisa: You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 34.
Natalie: Everyone started messaging me about home birth. Everyone and their dog. I was getting messages from Aunt Gladys and messages from Fido and messages from people I hadn't spoken to in years. I got some panicked messages from an old neighbor I had growing up in the building I did. I grew up on the Upper West Side, and this neighbor was messaging me all about how she had spoken to so-and-so, and they said that home birth was best. And of course, I'm getting all wrapped up in this panic of like, "Oh my God, I have to—do I have to do this home birth thing?" And I was looking into it. And, like, who's available to be a midwife for me, while who knows how many hundreds of other pregnant women in the same boat as me were also considering home birth? I was like, "How am I gonna find somebody, a stranger at this point, who's willing to add me to their schedule, come to my house in the middle of a pandemic, and deliver a baby?"
Lisa: Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions.
Lisa: Please know that we welcome your feedback on the show. Let us know what you like, what you don't like, and what you'd like to hear or learn in future episodes. Reach out to us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter @birthmattersnyc. Or you can email us at podcast@birthmattersnyc.com. If you're listening around the time that this goes live, I hope you're hanging in there and staying safe and healthy at home in these unprecedented and uncertain times. I want to make sure you're aware that through this pandemic, Birth Matters has a page on our website with constantly updated COVID-19 resources for expectant parents. Read more details, tips and stress management strategies over at our website at birthmattersnyc.com/covid-19, and know that we're constantly updating it any time there are new resources that we think might be helpful for you.
Lisa: Also, Birth Matters has partnered with The Root Therapy NYC to provide an ongoing weekly support group for expectant parents. The Root Therapy is also offering a new parents support group as well as other group options. For more information, email contact@theroottherapynyc.com.
Lisa: Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Birth Matters is offering a huge discount on our online on-demand course, because it's more important than ever to get equipped for the best birth possible. Our heart goes out to the families whose hospitals have canceled birth classes across the country, or who are experiencing severe financial hits right now, and we don't want cost to be a barrier. You can find the promo code and sign up over at birthmattersnyc.com. Also, our regularly scheduled live group classes that are normally in person are temporarily being held on Zoom, and we're also doing virtual private sessions. So please know that you can prep for birth and parenthood in whatever format works best for you and wherever you are. Again, you can register for any of these class formats over at birthmattersnyc.com.
Lisa: Before we launch into today's episode, I want to be sure that you're aware that if you're giving birth during this pandemic, and while we're doing social distancing, it might come as a surprise to you but I recommend more than ever considering hiring a doula to support you and help you advocate for yourself in labor; a postpartum doula to support you once you're no longer with your care provider or you've come home from your birthing place; and a lactation consultant, should you need support in getting breast feeding off to a good start. Most doulas and lactation consultants have shifted during this time to providing virtual support. While virtual might not be the most ideal form of support, we're so fortunate to live in a day and time in which it's possible, and it's still incredibly valuable to help ease this major transition in your life, and help everything to go as smoothly as it can. If you live in the New York City area, you can find some recommendations of doula collectives on my website at birthmattersnyc.com/resources. If you don't live in the New York City area, I recommend visiting Doulas of North America International at DONA.org to find a professional near you.
Lisa: Our previously scheduled Caesarean birth stories will continue to be postponed to a later date so that we can share a few birth stories that are especially timely for those giving birth around this time during the COVID-19 pandemic. Here's a little bit about today's story. Amidst the growing COVID-19 pandemic and stay-at-home orders, Natalie and Jackson share the stress they experienced late in her third trimester when they learn that their hospital is no longer allowing partners to accompany the laboring person. They scramble to advocate for the decision to be reversed at Mount Sinai East and are interviewed by multiple reporters along the way. They share how they were surprised when Natalie's water broke a few weeks before the due date. Thankfully, baby waited to come just long enough for Governor Cuomo to issue an executive order requiring partners to be allowed in labor and the immediate postpartum. They'll share aspects of the hospital environment across Natalie's time in the hospital that will be relevant to anyone giving birth during a pandemic, such as there being very little traffic getting to the hospital, being tested for COVID upon admission, the hospital being uncrowded, and having to wear a mask the whole time they were there. All right, let's jump in.
Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have Natalie and Jackson and baby Boden with me. Welcome, you guys.
Natalie: Hi, Lisa.
Lisa: You gave birth not long ago at all. Would you like to share how long ago you gave birth, and maybe what you do for a living as well?
Natalie: Sure. So we started labor a week ago today, seven days, and Boden is six days old now. I'm a teacher by trade, and recently became a teacher-trainer for people who want to teach English as a Foreign Language. But I haven't been working for the last couple of months.
Jackson: Yeah, and for me, I'm a website engineer. I work from home, so that's kind of been really nice with Natalie in the latest stages of her pregnancy. And, you know, after I get back from paternity leave, I will still be here, which will be really nice.
Lisa: Why don't you start by sharing how your pregnancy went, if there's anything to note, and what were the different ways that you prepared for this journey into parenthood?
Natalie: Sure. So, my pregnancy was pretty textbook, to be honest. Very lucky in that sense. All of the checkups that I had leading up to the labor were very positive. There was really nothing that I got from any of my providers that suggested I needed to change what I was doing. So we were definitely going into the end stage of the pregnancy with a really positive outlook and feeling really confident, especially around January, because we went to Spain for a month, and I was walking all over Europe, and we were just feeling high on life, not knowing this, like, growing thundercloud of COVID-19 kind of creeping over to, like, really screw the trajectory of things. But prior to about mid-February, early March, things were really rolling along.
Natalie: So to prepare for the actual birth, we took your class, which—that was the biggest step, actually. We kind of walked into your class not knowing anything, I think, apart from baby comes out of vagina. Maybe. That was about all I knew. So, yes, we definitely approached your course with an open mind and a real eagerness to soak up whatever we could. And we're very happy with what we got out of that. A lot of the things we were learning we didn't really realize we needed to know. Advocating for your rights in the labor and delivery, and knowing what kind of hook-ups I'm going to get to liquids, be it IV, or just a port, or nothing at all, or what options were available. Pain management. I didn't know anything about that. I remember in your class you were saying, like, "This really old fashioned Hollywood 'hoo-hoo-hee-hee' is really not useful. You should be taking deep breaths." I didn't know that. That was really helpful.
Jackson: I think I knew even less, despite, ironically, being—like, technically, I was present at the birth of my younger brother. Like, I was in the room. But of course I remember none of that. So
Natalie: Well, all of you were born at home.
Jackson: Yeah, yeah, but I knew next to nothing.
Natalie: Yeah, so it was good. I mean, we liked the positions of how partner can support the mom while in labor, and just things to think about leading up to the actual delivery. Like, what we should be packing in our bag. Those kind of things. Again, it seems so trivial now, looking back on it, and just to think, "Well, of course you need a hospital bag." But, like, again,, we just, you know,—when would you ever consider this until it's actually upon you? It's just not part of everyday life.
Lisa: And maybe it's worth noting that you guys took the class a few weeks before we started staying at home. So we actually got to be together, which was so nice. And I really missed that now. All of us do.
Natalie: It's another era. It really is. It's another era ago now. Yeah. So things were moving along really smoothly with the pregnancy. And then COVID-19 came. And it was really shocking how quickly everything shifted. I mean, everyone has a story at this point of how their life has been turned upside down. But the biggest shocker for us was first getting the notice from the hospital that no visitors other than your birth partner could be allowed in the hospital. And we had thought...
Jackson: Yeah, because initially we had thought—Natalie's sister is also in the city, and she didn't necessarily want to be in the room during labor. But we thought maybe she would be somewhere nearby so she could run and fetch things if Natalie needed them, or, you know, field text messages from anxious parents and what have you. So that notice kind of threw a spanner in the works for that, because that's like, "Well, now, okay, so now it's just the two of us."
Natalie: Right. But we thought, "Well, we can work around that. That's not a big deal." My sister even offered to sleep in the car outside, which was sweet, but, like, really not necessary. And of course, this was at a point where restaurants were still open and, like, things were still kind of moving. So she's suggesting she could sit in a cafe and just wait. And then we took a step further.
Jackson: Yeah, like a week after that, I think, we got that second notice that was like, "No support person at all. You're in it alone, basically." Yeah. And that was...
Natalie: Terrifying.
Jackson: That was rough.
Natalie: Yeah, that was terrifying. Because I'm, I suppose, like, the uncertainty of birth and everything for a new mother like myself was anxiety producing enough. Like, I was already feeling really anxious about the pain and about what my body would be doing. My mom died. So all I've had to go off of, in terms of family experience, is what her journal entries were, which have been really helpful, because she took very detailed notes. Just incredible. It's like she made this insurance policy in case she wouldn't be around. So I feel very lucky with that because I know some people who have lost a parent don't have that support. But I definitely, you know, I don't know, like, what my body is going to do compared to hers. And then the thought that Jackson wouldn't be there was unfathomable. Like, it wasn't—it just hadn't even occurred to me that I would be in this sterile hospital room alone. And with a breathing mask on. And, you know, all of these, like, terribly, like, the kind of things you think about when you watch a post-apocalyptic movie. That's kind of what that felt like I was about to be living. And, you know, it was just unfathomable. So what did we do?
Jackson: We were calling. Calling hospitals, calling state representatives, federal representatives, city representatives, just...
Natalie: Multiple times.
Jackson: So, yeah, I think I spoke to—I called Mount Sinai I think three times the day after that announcement, because the offices were closed when we found out. So I called them three times that day, and then, I think, multiple times every day after that.
Natalie: You were very polite. They were very polite, too.
Jackson: The person I spoke to was very understanding. Like, she understood. And she had the sound bite that she was allowed to give us about why they were doing this.
Natalie: Yeah. Yeah, we were surprised by how utterly civil everybody was, and especially considering they must have been getting such a deluge of very anxious, angry people. And so the fact that they were so calm and so polite and so understanding, even. Like, we really got a sense of humanity from this poor person who was fielding all of these phone calls.
Jackson: Yeah, yeah, I made a point to thank her numerous times of like, you know, "I know I'm getting irate, but I don't blame you."
Natalie: Yeah, it wasn't her decision. But it was actually quite interesting, Lisa, because I threw myself into this with a fervor that I didn't realize I'd had. And it really gave me an opportunity to have an outlet for all this anxiety that had been building up throughout the pregnancy in general. So I could say, "Okay, I'm gonna tweet at everybody I possibly can, and get really angry about it, but try and remain civil. And as a result, I got contacted by the Wall Street Journal. I got contacted by the New Yorker. A documentary from The New York Times reached out to me, and especially with some of my network's help, you helped, some of my friends were fielding people my way, a producer from Nightline...So all these people were really interested in our crisis, right? Because nobody wants to hear a really happy story. They all want, you know, the hell that you're going through to be broadcast, because it's entertaining. And in retrospect, it was entertaining, because here we were freaking out, you know, we're trying to come up with a Plan B.
Natalie: So, originally we were going to deliver at Mount Sinai East, and this was through the OB office that I had been seeing, the clinic, which is Maternal Fetal Medicine. Really great clinic. Very helpful sweet OBs, everybody there very understanding and supportive. And especially when I called panicking that I wasn't gonna be delivering at Mount Sinai East and I needed to get out right now! And they were very, very sweet and understanding. They didn't try and fight me. They were probably losing customers. Customers? Is that what you call patients? I think in this country you do. Anyway, so, especially since they were probably losing clients by the dozens—I wouldn't be surprised—so they were very sweet. And,, yeah. And then we had the conversation with our parents.
Jackson: Yeah, that was...ideally it would have been like a centering thing for us to have, of like, okay, some adults in the room, like, remaining calm and, you know, offering a sympathetic ear and, you know, maybe some advice, if they had any, or whatever, and we didn't really get that.
Natalie: We did not get that at all. So Jackson's parents are in New Zealand currently on quarantine, and were on quarantine at the time, so...
Lisa: And New Zealand has been much more strict, right? They really did an effective job of flattening the curve, as I understand it.
Jackson: Yeah, they have stronger restrictions than we do here in New York City, but have never had anywhere close to the amount of transmission.
Natalie: Yeah, so we called Jackson's parents, and Jackson's mom bursts into tears, and is sobbing on the phone about how awful it is, and how she can't be there. And so,
Jackson: Yeah, just how sorry she was for us. Which is sweet, I understand that...
Natalie: But also not very helpful at the time. Because we were freaking out, and we needed somebody to kind of step in and say, like, "It's okay, you'll work it out!" Which, yeah, so I called my parents, and they freaked out: "You need to come upstate." My dad lives on a lavender farm in upstate New York about four hours north, and they were saying, "Oh, you should come up here. You need to quarantine in one of our rooms, though, for two weeks. But then you can go and deliver at the local hospital up here." And, you know, we're panicking about when we should go. And my dad is saying, "Oh, they'll lock down all the roads in the cities and then you won't be able to get out! So you have to come right now!" And it was just like everybody hit the panic button.
Jackson: And I think in in the time frame, this was about four weeks, I think, four weeks to the day, ahead of her official due date. So, in theory, we had time to work stuff out. Like, it wasn't like we got this notification and then she was due...
Jackson: I was due two days later.
Jackson: ...The day after, or whatever.
Natalie: Yeah, thankfully. I mean, we were really thankful for that, because you can imagine all the poor people who had to deliver in that time period without their partner. I mean it...
Jackson: Yeah, or they showed up not knowing.
Natalie: Yeah, right, Because it really happened overnight.
Lisa: And thankfully, it only lasted for about a week, or maybe—yeah, right around that—thanks to all the advocacy efforts that you did, and so many parents did, and so many birth professionals. Yeah. All of us were banging down doors, you know, like, just "Don't do this! This is not right. This is not safe." Yeah.
Natalie: It's inhumane. Yeah, And it went against—and that was the point we kept bringing up. It went against what the CDC was saying, what the World Health Organization was saying, what the New York State Health was saying in their guidelines. And so we were just so confused, because we thought, you know, here were all of these guidelines that were put in place for a reason. And yet these hospitals were deciding not to follow them. So that was the argument we kept saying. It was like, "Why have these guidelines if you're just going to ignore them and make up your own rules? I mean, I understand where you're coming from with it, but it flies in the face of what all of these professional organizations were recommending, so what were you actually doing with that? But we had a month to try and figure this out.
Natalie: Oh, and then everyone started messaging me about home birth. Everyone and their dog. I was getting messages from Aunt Gladys, and messages from Fido, and messages from people I hadn't spoken to in years saying, "Have you thought about home birth? Have you thought about maybe not going in the hospital?" I got some panicked messages from an old neighbor I had growing up in the building I did. I grew up on the Upper West Side, and this neighbor was messaging me all about how she had spoken to so-and-so. And they said that a home birth was best, and I should look into it. And of course, I'm getting all wrapped up in this panic of like, "Oh, my God, I have to—do I have to do this home birth thing?" And I was looking into it and, like, who's available to be a midwife for me whilst who knows how many hundreds of other pregnant women in the same boat as me were also considering home birth? I was like, "How am I gonna find somebody, a stranger, at this point, who's willing to add me to their schedule, come to my house in the middle of a pandemic, and deliver a baby? I mean, it's just, like, all of it was so half-baked and panicky and, like, cockamamie.
Jackson: That was one area where I think my parents were able to contribute, because, you know, they they'd done home births for me and my two siblings, and, you know, so when this happens, they kind of stood by us, and like, "No, it is still the best choice to look for a hospital. Like, home birth is something you need to make a distinct decision about, and you need to prepare, and so on and so forth. You can't just jump into it with a week's notice."
Lisa: Yeah. And Jackson, that's exactly what the home birth midwives response—the local home birth midwives said. They said it's not safe to switch because you're afraid of giving birth in the hospital. You know, that makes it unsafe. That alone. So I'm thankful to hear that feedback from your family, because I was curious, since there were home births in that background, what their response would be,
Natalie: Yeah. They were really helpful with that. And ultimately once the panic or shock of all of this died down, I think my parents, his parents, families and friends started to really process, "Okay, well, what's the best way forward?" And we decided, "Okay, we'll go with Metropolitan Hospital, one of the city hospitals that still allowed partners."
Lisa: This is so funny. I don't think I realized that you guys had switched. I thought when you were in labor, I thought you were still at Mount Sinai East.
Natalie: We are. We were.
Lisa: Oh, okay. You were. Sorry. I'll let you tell the story.
Natalie: Yeah, we were. Well, and thankfully the governor revoked that policy by signing the executive order and demanding that the birth partners be available, so that it was suddenly like the fog lifted and pathways cleared, and a tail wind blew. I mean, so suddenly it was like, "Okay, we can continue as normal. I'll take anything at this point. If Jackson can be in the room during labor and delivery and he has to get the boot two hours after my baby is born, I'll take it. I have to wear a mask during delivery? Fine. I mean, I'll take it." Like, you know, and it felt—I'm sure there's a psychological term for this, where you get given, like, the worst case scenario, and then they remove the worst case scenario but, like, still give you crap. But you feel really good about the fact that you, like, didn't at least get the worst case scenario. That's kind of the position we were in. We were like, "Well, at least it's not as bad as it could be. I mean, it's still pretty bad. I'm going to a COVID-ridden hospital in the most infected city on the planet at the peak of the pandemic and delivering a baby, but at least my birth partner can be there. I mean, despite all the other restrictions I have to go through, I'll take it!" Yeah, it's kind of a karmic joke, really.
Lisa: Jackson, what was your psychological or emotional process in that small window of time when you thought you weren't gonna be able to accompany Natalie?
Jackson: So I think that at no point did I ever accept that that was gonna be the case. Like, there was always that voice in my head that was like, "No, there's no way. There's no way that this is gonna happen." So after, I think, that Monday night of when the announcement had been made but there was kind of no action that could be taken, like that was the low point to me, I think. And then subsequent days when we started making calls and reaching out to people and, you know, got advice from some offices. You know, we called the house representative of our district, and they were like, "Well, we can't really speak out about this because it's a private hospital, and the federal representative can't really speak to that. But we would advise that you don't necessarily talk to your state representative, but to your city council, because they probably have the most bandwidth to try and champion this." So, like, having people who seemed on our side and having something that we could act on, I think, made it feel like, "No, there's no way this can stay the way it is." And the fact that at that time we thought we had four weeks to suss it all out. And you know, during that week, we came up with our plan B, which was Metropolitan Hospital, where they said, you know, "Get your medical records. And if you show up pregnant and in labor, you know, we'll take care of you." So having that as a plan B, having the hightailing it upstate for a plan C made it feel like, "Okay, we have our options."
Natalie: Yeah. And so the actual birth was interesting because I gave birth 2 and a half weeks early from my due date. So, oops! We didn't have a month. We actually squeaked by. We had about a week after this policy had been revoked before I delivered. So I'm really glad this policy had been revoked. But so, the crazy thing was that because of this policy, I think, I don't really know, Mount Sinai East was pretty empty when I got there. I mean, I got there at, like, 9:30 in the morning, having had my water break first. So my water broke at 5:45 in the morning. I called Maternal Fetal Medicine and was like, "My water broke. This isn't the plan. Originally—in my birth class, she said we could make cookies and hang out at home and then go. You know, what do I do? This is backwards." And, yeah, my OB said, "Well, you know, your water broke. You should really think about coming in. Why don't you stop by our office first, we'll check you out, and then we can call the hospital, and you can just walk right in. They'll be expecting you." Which worked really well for us. So we showed up at the OB at 8 a.m., they checked me. I was about one centimeter. And then they said, "Okay, why don't you hop on over to Mount Sinai East, which is three blocks away." And, again, no traffic. Nothing. Like, because of COVID, we drove right in, found parking instantly.
Lisa: The silver lining.
Natalie: Oh, it's incredible. I mean, it's just—it feels surreal because so many things have kind of worked in our favor as a result of all of this. You know, what normally would take us 45 minutes' worth of driving took 15. And then there was no one at the offices. So I walked right in to the OB. And then I walked right into the hospital. I think I waited all of two minutes while they filled out my insurance paperwork. I walked right into my delivery room, and...
Lisa: That's unheard of. Yeah, unheard of in New York. I bet—I know part of it has to do with the mass exodus. So many expectant parents just decided to relocate during this whole time. I've had a number of students who did that.
Natalie: Yeah, I really do wonder. And it was incredible. It was incredible, Lisa, because we were in this room. I delivered him at 11 p.m. on April 3rd. Serge Jackson got kicked out at around 1:30 in the morning. They wheeled me up to the maternity ward. I was COVID negative, like, they gave me a test. Which, by the way, really sucks—the actual test. You know, here I am getting poked and prodded in all of these orifices, and I'm thinking, like, "Wow, they're taking the temperature in my ear, and they're checking my private bits, and they're looking at my mouth, but they haven't gotten my nose." And then the COVID test came. And they shoved these cotton swabs up my nose. Really uncomfortable. Anyway, I'm negative, or I was negative.
Lisa: Yay, good. Yeah, I've heard other people describe that, too. I haven't had it done myself, but I've heard it's so—even painful.
Natalie: Yeah, it's like brain-scrambling, because they really have to shove it right up into your sinus canal.
Lisa: Oh, man.
Jackson: That was one of, like, one of the final injustices. You know, she's having everything done to her, everything is going on to her, and I'm sitting there supporting as best I can, and then they test her, but not me So it's like, with everything else she's got going, she also has to be tasted for COVID.
Lisa: You should have said, "Test him. Not me! If you're just gonna test one of us."
Natalie: I know. But anyway, I got tested for COVID. Negative. So they wheeled me up to the non-COVID floor. So they've got two floors going. And my room was empty. I had a double room. I didn't have a single roommate until 10:30 the next morning. The whole night, I was in my room alone. Again, I couldn't believe it. I thought I'd have to wait a really long time for a room, or, like, share with a really noisy person. No, the whole thing was to myself. And it was so quiet. The nurses didn't seem stressed out at all. And I was asking them, like, "Is this normal?" And they said, "Well, yeah, it's been busy, but I guess tonight, yeah, it's pretty quiet." You know, it was Friday night. Saturday night. Friday night.
Jackson: Friday night.
Natalie: Friday night. So, yeah. For that reason, I was really grateful. I mean, that was the silver lining for all of this stuff, you know, because I really had a very private, quiet experience. Aside from wearing the mask. We had to wear a surgical mask during labor, which really sucked.
Lisa: Yeah, I cannot even imagine having to wear a mask. I hate masks to begin with, even not in labor, but, like, when you're in labor and you need to really, like, focus on your breathing. Oh, my gosh. Can't imagine.
Natalie: It was horrible. And we walked in with N-95 masks on, which are those, like, really thick, you know, hard-core masks. And so the hospital didn't provide us a mask because they thought, "Okay, well, great, you got one." And so I'm in the delivery room wearing this N-95 mask, and I'm sweating and, you know, it's like being kicked in the stomach, you know, because the pain is so intense, and you know, heavy with a baby and, like, I can't move very well. And I'm just like—I felt like I was flailing around and whimpering, and, like, I kept going to the bathroom and, like, like, ripping the mask off in the bathroom just to breathe and, like—just horrible. And finally the doctor said, "Well, why don't you put on, like, one of the surgical mask from the hospital? You might be able to breathe a little better." And that helped. It certainly didn't make it better, in the sense that taking the mask off entirely would have. But, yeah, oh, that really sucked. Yeah.
Lisa: I'm thinking about the heat, the warmth of it. Because when your body is working so hard in labor, you often are really hot and bothered and don't want anything on you. And to think about having that on your mouth. It's like, ugh.
Natalie: Yeah, and because of COVID I couldn't take it off once labor was done. I had to wear it up to the maternity ward, through the night, through the next day. And then we stayed at the hospital for 24 hours. So it was 24 hours after he was born that we could be released, which meant 1 a.m. the next day, which means I was wearing this mask from when I checked in at 9:30 in the morning on Friday until I checked out at 1 a.m. on...Sunday? Saturday.
Jackson: At 1 a.m., like, Sunday morning.
Natalie: Sunday morning. Yeah, so throughout this whole thing I'm wearing this mask. And I was thinking, you know, at least the staff can, like, be on a 12-hour shift and then leave and take this mask off. Like, what am I supposed to do? I can't take it off. So I have to sit there in my own stink, like, from my breath and my sweat, and, like, just inhaling through this mask. It was so gross. I really couldn't wait to get out of there. And at the 24-hour mark, I was out. Like, you know, at one in the morning. And they're like, "Are you sure? You know, you don't want to sleep and have breakfast?" I was like, "You couldn't pay me to eat breakfast here. Like, if you offered me a $1,000 check right now, I would probably puke in my mask and then throw it at you." Like, I just couldn't do it. I was like, "Get me out of here!"
Lisa: Yeah. And just for listeners, usually...so, right now they're sending people home from the hospital with their babies usually a full day earlier than normal. Because usually in a vaginal birth, it would be a couple of days before you would go home. But just due to all of this, they're trying to get people out of the hospital sooner.
Natalie: I don't blame them. And plus, it was, you know, as much as it was a positive, wonderful experience—like, my actual birth went very smoothly, there was nothing really wrong. No complications. Very textbook. My maternity room faced Central Park. And on, like, a normal day, it would be this beautiful view of Central Park. However, in this time period, it was the tent city of the temporary hospital that Mount Sinai had set up for COVID patients. So, like, I'm sitting there with my newborn, there's probably COVID patients down below me or above me. I don't know where they are in the hospital. And then there's this freakin' macabre temporary white tent city outside my window with ambulances going in and out throughout the night. And it wasn't like the ambulances were siren -ing either. Like, they're the creepy, quiet ones, you know what I mean? It was so dark. I couldn't wait. I was like, I you know, and the stinky mask, and oh, wow, it was really dark. I couldn't wait to get out of there.
Lisa: At first, when you said Central Park view, I was forgetting what I'd seen on the news of all of those tents and things. And I was just like, "Oh, how nice that you got that." And then I quickly realized as you shared..."No, no, no.
Natalie: It was dark. And there was this cop car who was parked in front of the entrance, and he had this loudspeaker on. And so it seemed like every hour his siren would go off, and he'd say, "Hey, stop taking pictures. Keep moving. I see you. You're taking pictures," you know, because people would be walking past on the opposite side of the street and try and take a shot of this really dark scenario going on in Central Park. So it was like I got constant reminders it was there, you know. Yeah. It was so dark. Yeah.
Lisa: Do you want to back up it all and share about the actual labor itself? No pressure.
Natalie: Yeah. I mean, the labor itself was, again, really textbook. I mean, I showed up at around 1.5 centimeters. And then at around three o'clock, I was at, what, 3 centimeters.
Lisa: So contractions did start pretty soon after your water broke?
Jackson: Yeah, her water broke at like 5:45 in the morning. And then she first started noticing contractions about 7:30.
Natalie: Yeah, and they felt like uterine cramps. Like, it just felt like period cramps at first. And then I really started revving up around three o'clock. That's when it was the worst pain. And plus, with the mask, you know, and the doctors kept coming in and saying, like, "Do you want an epidural?" And I was like, at first I was like, "No, no, I can do it. This is fine. I'm OK." And then around three o'clock, I was like, "I cannot—I physically cannot breathe. Because I've got this mask. I'm in so much pain. I'm sweating up a storm. I'm still kind of scared to touch surfaces. Like, I don't really—even though I want to, like, wipe my face and my sweat. Like—I was like, "Fine, just give it to me. Give me the epidural. I'm going to lie here in bed and just get through it." And once I got the epidural, it really helped. Although I was terrified of it. But it was fine. Everything was fine.
Lisa: So it worked pretty well. Sounds like?
Natalie: Yeah, everything worked. I mean, it was very smooth. They gave me Pitocin around three, as well, maybe five.
Jackson: I think it was a little bit after.
Natalie: Maybe it was around five.
Jackson: Yeah, I think she got the epidural. And then a couple of hours after that, they wanted to leave it to see if things would keep ramping up. And, yeah, I think about five...
Natalie: Yeah, I got the Pitocin, and then at eight o'clock, I was at eight centimeters. And so they were like, "Okay, we'll keep an eye out." And then around 10 p.m. they said, "Oh, yeah. You're about ready to go." And then the pushing took me 30 minutes. And it was very smooth. I mean, it wasn't not painful. It was definitely painful, but my doctor was so great. You know, here I am, like, on the table pushing. And then between the contractions, we'd stop pushing. We all kind of stare at each other for a minute. And so my doctor was like, "So, how did you guys meet?" It was just really nice. It was, like, a very normal thing to have happen in a very abnormal situation—in my life, anyway. But it was really nice to have somebody there who just didn't seem to be fazed by how crazy the situation was. So he was very normal and calm and a good coach, you know? And Jackson was there, too, and Jackson was crying, and so I was crying. Tears of joy.
Lisa: Could you feel—with the epidural, could you feel how to push? Or did you get that urge to push? What was that like?
Lisa: Yes. Thankfully, the epidural started to wear off a bit around eight. So it really wasn't—I wasn't as numb as I thought I would be. I was definitely still numb, but I actually really liked that, because by the time it came for me to push, I could feel things. Although it wasn't as intense as I think it probably really would have been, like, I still felt the ring of fire. And I still felt quite a lot of pressure and movement. But it was good. I think that worked out really well. Yeah. And Boden was born at 8.5 pounds. So despite being 2 and a half weeks early, he was still quite a big baby. Thank God he was early. I can't imagine if he had come on his due date, he probably would have been over 10 pounds. I mean, the kid is huge. Yeah. So that—the labor was, you know, really normal. I mean, everything about it felt normal. Like, it didn't feel like, "Oh, this is a strange thing to be going through." I mean, it was kind of a process of very unusual circumstances, but certainly normal. Yeah.
Lisa: And Jackson. So when you had to leave the hospital, I assume—let's see, this was late at night, So I assume you just went straight back home?
Jackson: Yeah. Yeah, so as Natalie said, we'd driven in that morning, and we were just parked in the building, right next to the hospital. So, yes, 1 :30-2 o'clock or something, and I, again, just drove home really quickly. Briefly called my parents when I got home, ate some food, because I didn't really eat all day. And then, yeah, just kind of passed out. And then that next day, of course, I was facing the prospect of an entire day where they weren't allowed to leave yet, and I was not allowed to go and visit them. But silver lining of that was because he was early, there were things that we'd been intending to do that weekend to prepare that, of course, we hadn't done. So having that spare day where I kind of had nothing to do, I was able to get the apartment in order a little bit, and reorganize our bedroom so the bassinet was in there, and, you know, vacuum and clean up a little bit, so yeah.
Natalie: Yeah, it all worked out. Honestly, it all worked out really well. I mean, you think that, you know, my stepmom says this a lot: "Man plans. God laughs." And it is. It is really like that. I mean, I think the advice I would give to any expectant mother or family is that, you know, the more open you are to change, and the more open you are to the possibility that what you do plan isn't actually the way things are gonna pan out, then the more happy you'll be, I think, the happier you'll be, you know. Because, yeah, there's a lot of things we didn't expect, especially about COVID, and in the circumstances that we find ourselves in. But at the same time, you know, like, kind of what you're saying —if you can spin it in a different way and look at it from another angle, it might actually not be as bad as you think. And, like right now, for example, we're at home with this six-day-old. But we have no FOMO, no fear of missing out, because there's nothing going on. We don't have to cancel cocktails with friends. We don't have to find a babysitter. We don't have to do any of that. And we've been having Zoom meetings with family and Zoom meetings with friends. We've had happy hour meetings. And it's great. Everyone can meet him digitally. And then he gets fussy and we can hang up. It's fabulous. That's really been a silver lining. And, you know, okay, everyone's stuck at home on the stay-at-home order, but we would be home anyway. So the timing of this actually worked out really well for us. And I guess I would say that to anybody whose birth is imminent, is, you know, actually, timing-wise this is pretty great Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. That thought has occurred to me more than once, about the fact that, because everybody's home, it's kind of normalizing for new parents. I like the way you framed it, that there's no FOMO.
Natalie: No, no, not at all. I mean, look, we didn't really want anyone to come swooping in and help us out. I know a lot of people were looking—and are feeling very disappointed by the fact that, you know, mom can't be there or, you know, Grandma can't come, or whatever. So we certainly approached it with more of like, "Well, we prefer to be alone anyway," so this saved us from any awkward conversations to have with family and friends as well. You know, it's like, "OK, blanket statement: No one's coming. Not our fault."
Lisa: The best excuse ever.
Natalie: Yeah, pretty much. So, you know, that's been kind of nice. And it's really not that hard being just the two of us with him. I mean, you were saying...
Jackson: Yeah, I had thought—like, I had this image in my head of, like, him showing up was gonna be this mutation of the idea of "us," you know, the "us" of me and Natalie was this idea in my head, and him showing up, it would just mutate into this different thing. But in reality, it feels like him showing up is just the fork in the road of what, you know, we would have been without him, and what we are going to be with him. And at this point, we're so close to that fork in the road that there's kind of no difference to the "us" without him, as there is with the "us" with him. And so it really hasn't felt particularly different. Like, he's here, but it doesn't really necessarily feel like he's here. It's hard to explain.
Natalie: It feels natural.
Jackson: Yeah. It still feels like it's just us. But then we're also looking after this guy now.
Natalie: Yeah.
Lisa: Just a new extension of you.
Natalie: Yeah. Good way to put that. Yeah.
Lisa: Is there anything that you haven't gotten to share that you would like to talk about?
Jackson: Natalie really enjoyed having cheesy action films on the TV when she was in labor.
Natalie: Oh, yes.
Jackson: Sound down. Just like...
Natalie: The cheesier the better. Like "Lara Croft" and "Chronicles of Riddick" and "John Wick." Like, really cheesy, like, yeah, those were great. Watching things blow up while you're in labor is really satisfying.
Lisa: That's hilarious. Whatever works, my friend. Especially right now, whatever works, whatever works to take your mind off the Central Park that's outside your window.
Natalie: Yeah, exactly.
Lisa: All right. Well, thank you so much, so, so, so much for taking the time to share so soon after birth. I know this is gonna be an encouraging story for people who are still in these times. I am hoping to air it within about a week and a half of our recording it. We're recording this on April 10th, so thank you so much.
Natalie: Thank you, Lisa.
Jackson: See ya.
Natalie: Bye.
Lisa: Bye.
Lisa: Before we close things out today, I just want to express my gratitude to all the expectant parents, already-parents, concerned citizens and fellow birth professionals who spoke up and made their voices heard by signing a petition, contacting your birth places or representatives, or did other advocacy work to help partners regain labor support privileges. I know it was stressful, and I hate that it ever had to happen. But this is how we see positive change happen in our maternal health care system. We must make our voices heard to improve outcomes for birthing parents. And this is a perfect example.
Lisa: Okay, we have one more COVID 19 story coming up next week. So here's a little sneak peek.
spk_1: Then we had an hour, I think, maybe an hour and a half to hang out with Davis, and then they're like, "All right, later. You can't..." They wouldn't even let me walk her over or anything. Which, again, like, I can rationalize this. I can understand it, but like, it's a pretty tough thing. And then you spend—she spent two more days, and, you know, you don't have those days. Yeah.
spk_2:The hardest part was like, basically they're like "Okay, get in this wheelchair." And then they started to wheel me away. He's like, "Wait, are you guys leaving?" I'm like "Wait. Oh my gosh." And then they're like, "Who's going to carry your stuff? "And I'm like, "I don't know. What do we do?" And he's like, "I'll do it." They're like, "You can't come." And then these two people are talking about what to do with your stuff. And you're like, "I'll carry it." "No, you can't have it on the chair."
spk_2: You know, it's just like this weird complexity, and you were just, like, looking down the hall and like, waving. It was just so somber and terrible. Honestly, it was, like, the hardest part, one of the hardest parts.
Lisa:An affirmation I'll leave you with today to meditate on this week: "My baby is safe. My body is safe." Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast. Until next week, please stay safe, wash your hands, and take good care of yourself.---END---