Today, we return to our cesarean birth stories following our last-minute 3-week postponement in order to share 3 birth stories that were taking place during the Covid-19 pandemic. This begins our last month of birth stories for our 1st season, and then we’ll go on hiatus over the summer to prep lots more content for the fall.
Amanda shares her rationale for choosing to work with a midwife and doula for her baby’s first birth, and details how she developed cholestasis during her pregnancy, which is a medical indication for induction. She describes the reasons that the way her labor played out led to baby needing to be born via cesarean. While this was not what Amanda had wanted after she had planned for an unmedicated birth with a midwife and doula, it was still an overall positive birth experience for her due to the compassionate care she received from everyone around her, including her partner, Grant. Get ready for all the feels when you hear both Grant and Amanda express love, admiration, and appreciation for each other throughout this momentous life experience and how this aspect helped everything feel like an overall sweet memory. Amanda also shares a bit about the early challenges she and baby faced as they started breastfeeding.
Episode Topics:
Talking about choosing midwifery care & studying midwifery in her grad school
Hiring a doula
Cholestasis symptoms (that weren’t fully traditional ones) and diagnosis in pregnancy
Being told she tested positive and had to come in to be induced within hours
Packing last-minute and heading to hospital in a Lyft
Arrival at hospital in evening, find out having contractions already happening upon arrival at hospital
Start induction with foley balloon, left in for 12 hours
Next day, move to pitocin
Doula arrives and sets up space to be conducive to laboring well
Midwife arrives and removes Amanda from continuous monitoring
Coping techniques that helped Amanda -- positions, essential oil, counterpressure techniques, comforting touch from partner and doula as things get more intense
Concerns about baby’s heart rate, changing positions to try to help
Processing the idea that a cesarean might be necessary amidst strong labor contractions
Consulting with an OB the midwife recommended, suggesting trying amnioinfusion
They try scalp stimulation to get the baby’s heart rate back up
Grant’s support helped protect the memory as a positive one
Amniotic infusion attempted, but didn’t seem to help
Moving to cesarean, staff expertly and swiftly prepare and conduct surgery
Side effects afterwards
Baby goes to NICU due to breathing difficulties
Doula helps them move to recovery before departing
Recovery and pumping
How words from the midwives, doula, attending a cesarean healing circle, and processing with partner helped work through feelings about how things went
Early breastfeeding details -- challenges with baby’s sucking ability, plugged milk ducts, supply issues and herbal remedies lactation consultant/nurse practitioner prescribed
Final thoughts on preparing for birth, staying flexible, partners being present and involved
Resources:
BirthMattersnyc.com/resources (lots of resources, including doulas and lactation consultants)
The Root Therapy NYC (support groups for new & expectant parents)
Doulas of North America International (DONA - find a doula)
Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin*
Natural Hospital Birth by Cynthia Gabriel*
The Birth Hour podcast
Jae Carey (doula)
Mindful Birth NY - Mary Esther Malloy Hopwood (hosts cesarean healing circles)
La Leche League - free breastfeeding support meetings
Cesarean Rates by Year in U.S. (Birth by the Numbers)
Cesarean Information (Childbirth Connection)
Creating Your Cesarean Birth Plan (Lamaze)
Safe Prevention of the Primary Cesarean (American Congress of Obstetricians & Gynecologists, 2014)
Toolkit for a Healthy Cesarean (by my local colleague over at Mindful Birth NY)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Transcript
Lisa: You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast Episode 36.
Grant: Amanda had a really tough time.
Amanda: This is when the lessons of your class came in handy for Grant, because he was amazing and was just—the entire time, you know, just holding my hand and just sort of whispering these mantras. You know, things like—I can't remember what you said. Just, you know, "Breathe, relax your jaw." You know, "You can do this."
Grant: "Just breathe through this one."
Amanda: Yeah, it was... you know, as uncomfortable as it was at times, it was really like...my memory of it is sweet because of that, because it was such a—it was an intense time and it had that bonding effect on us as a couple.
Grant: Yeah, I've never felt so close. It was amazing.
Lisa: Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. If you like the show, we'd be so grateful if you'd write a review wherever you're listening to this. You might just get a shout out on social media or on the podcast if you do.
Lisa: Hi, everyone. If you're listening around the time that this goes live, I hope you're hanging in there and staying safe and healthy at home in these unprecedented and uncertain times. When this airs we'll be several weeks into New York's orders to stay at home and do social distancing due to COVID-19. I want to make sure you're aware that through this pandemic, Birth Matters has a page on our website with constantly updated COVID-19 resources for expectant parents. Read more details, tips and stress management strategies over at our website at birthmattersnyc.com/covid-19 and know that we're constantly updating it any time there are new resources that we think might be helpful for you. Also, Birth Matters has partnered with The Root Therapy NYC to provide an ongoing weekly support group for expectant parents. The Root Therapy is also offering a new parent support group as well as other group options. For more information, email contact@theroottherapynyc.com. Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Birth Matters is offering a huge discount on our online on-demand course because it's more important than ever to get equipped for the best birth possible. Our heart goes out to the families whose hospitals have canceled birth classes across the country or who are experiencing severe financial hits right now, and we don't want costs to be a barrier. You can find the promo code and sign up over at birthmattersnyc.com. Also, our regularly scheduled live group classes that are normally in person are temporarily being held on Zoom, and we're also doing virtual private sessions. So please know that you can prep for birth and parenthood in whatever format works best for you and wherever you are. Again, you can register for any of these class formats over at birthmattersnyc.com.
Lisa: In today's episode, we return to our Caesarean birth stories that were scheduled for last month's Caesarean Awareness Month, following our three-week detour to share birth stories taking place during the COVID-19 Pandemic. Do be sure to give us a follow over on Instagram or Facebook both @birthmattersnyc for some educational content on this topic that we posted last month. The month of May will be the last few episodes of our first season, as we'll be going on hiatus for the summer to prepare lots more great content for the fall.
Lisa: Today, Amanda and Grant share their firstborn's birth story. Amanda describes how she developed cholestasis during her pregnancy, which is a medical indication for induction. She'll describe the reasons that the way her labor played out led to baby needing to be born via Caesarean. While this was not what Amanda had wanted after she had planned for an unmedicated birth with a midwife and doula, it was still an overall positive birth experience for her due to the compassionate care she received from everyone around her, including her partner, Grant. Get ready for all the feels when you hear both Grant and Amanda express love, admiration and appreciation for each other throughout this momentous life experience, and how this aspect helped everything feel like an overall sweet memory. Amanda will also share a bit about the early challenges she and baby faced as they started breastfeeding. So let's jump in.
Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have Amanda and Grant with me. Welcome, you guys.
Amanda: Hi.
Grant: Hi, there.
Lisa: Would you let us know how long ago you gave birth and maybe what you do for a living?
Amanda: Yeah. So, Oscar was born February 24th of 2019. So it's been just over a year. I work in science journalism. I work for Scientific American magazine as a graphic editor. So I do infographics about science.
Grant: And I'm an architect working on museums and cultural buildings, typically.
Lisa: Great. Thanks. Well, before we go into your birth story, do you mind just giving us a little bit of background on how your pregnancy went, as well as what choices did you make in terms of your care provider? And just how–what were the different ways that you prepared for birth? I know you took my birth class, so that was one of the ways. But you can talk about that as well as other things, or whatever.
Amanda: Sure, so I would say my pregnancy was pretty mostly uncomplicated. Every time I went to the doctor, it seemed like, you know, I was right on track, and I really enjoyed being pregnant. I loved, you know, feeling baby move and everything. And I did a fair amount of preparation. I really wanted a natural birth, or as natural as possible. I did a lot of research, as far as care providers, and I was actually kind of disappointed in the choices in New York. I would have thought that it would have been easier to find a midwife. I was interested in working with a midwife from the beginning. As part of my graduate study, I actually did a project that was centered on midwifery, and sort of informed choice in midwifery, and sort of how that model works. And so I sort of came in with a certain level of knowledge about, you know, how that works. And yeah, it took a lot of research, and I did finally find a midwife practice that sadly no longer exists. But I worked with–it was a midwife practice of five midwives in Brooklyn Heights, and they were associated with Mount Sinai. And I would have preferred to deliver in a birth center. But, again, just the choices weren't there. And so this midwife practice that, you know, they took my insurance and they were, you know, reasonably close by. They delivered at Brooklyn Hospital. And so that was where ended up delivering.
Lisa: And where do you guys live?
Amanda: So we live in Astoria, or sort of between Long Island City and Astoria, just on the, kind of on the border. But I work downtown, and so Brooklyn Heights was actually one stop away from my work. So that was handy.
Lisa: What first brought midwives onto your radar, and what made you want to study that and write about that?
Amanda: I think it started when I watched the documentary "The Business of Being Born." I was just really affected by that and sort of the–I guess the idea of birth as, like, not a medical emergency just kind of made a lot of sense to me. And I've just always been fascinated by birth and so I felt like if I wanted an intervention free birth, a midwife seemed like a good way to go. Yeah. And so, let's see. In addition to just finding a care provider, I did a lot of reading. I read Ina May's Guide. I also, once I knew that I was going to be delivering in a hospital, I found a book called "Natural Hospital Birth," which I found really useful. And I did a lot of listening to "The Birth Hour" podcast. I'm sure if your podcast had been around back then, I would have listened to that, too.
Amanda: I always recommend that one, because there's many more stories than I've had time to post so far. Yeah. um
Lisa: And that was really fun. It don't know. I just remember sort of feeling really positive going into it. Like, I think listening to all those stories, even the ones that weren't necessarily all positive, just sort of made me feel like I was prepared and really looking forward to the process. And then taking your class also really helped with that. And that was–I felt like–Oscar is just contributing here. I felt like taking your class together as a couple was really nice, because, you know, it sort of helped Grant get up to speed on some of the stuff that I was learning.
Grant: Yeah, I hadn't been reading about it nearly a deeply as Amanda had. So, definitely coming along and taking a crash course was very, very helpful. Yeah, and I feel like, I ended up going into it all pretty prepared to, you know, to be there and support Amanda through what she was about to go through.
Lisa: And you guys hired a doula, right?
Amanda: Yeah, we did.
Lisa: How did that come onto your radar?
Amanda: I think in all the research that I'd been doing, I just heard from so many sources that, you know, having a doula is so helpful for so many reasons. And knowing that I did, you know, want to have a natural birth in the hospital, it just felt like that seemed like it would be really good asset. And especially, I think, because it, you know, we had never done this before, it felt like having somebody there just to advocate for us and who kind of knew the terrain was really reassuring. And so our doula was great. Her name is Jae Carey. J-a-e C-a-r-e-y. Yeah, we had a really positive experience with her. We had one visit with her before, and actually way it worked out, like, we thought we were scheduling it way in advance. And we–I think we originally planned to two visits. But then once she came, like, she came to our place, you know, I think after a certain amount of time, she was kind of like, "Ok, well, we couldn't stop now, or we could just keep going and then, you know, we'll just cover it all in this visit." And it ended up being a good thing that we did that, because the following weekend was when I ended up giving birth. Yeah. So should we dive into the story?
Lisa: Yeah. Feel free to go into it. You can start wherever you'd like to start, in terms of the birth story
Amanda: Well, so I guess it makes sense to start when I was, I guess, early third trimester, I had started to experience itching. It started sort of on my belly, and that's I know a place that's pretty common, like, to have itching when you're pregnant, because your skin is stretching. And so I didn't think too much of it, like, I, you know, I mentioned it when I was at my midwife appointment, and they–I don't think they even, you know, they were sort of like, "You can use an over-the-counter cream for it. Wasn't, like, a cause for concern at that time." But then, at a later appointment, when I was 36 weeks, it was still going on, and it had popped up in other areas, like backs of my thighs and my back. Yeah. And it was sort of, like, symmetrical. And so I was kind of like, "OK, I don't think this is just, like, a dermatitis thing." And, you know, I had–in my research, I had come across cholestasis, which is a liver condition. It's a liver condition where your liver doesn't process bile effectively. And so you end up with bile acids in your blood, and it's associated with pregnancy. It can be serious. It could be harmful to the baby, and so, typically, if you do have it, they tend to, you know, try to induce you and get the baby out sort of as soon as it's safe to do so. And so I had, you know, I had learned about that, but my symptoms weren't super consistent with what I was finding online. Like, I was seeing, you know, "You'll be itchy, but you won't have a rash, and it typically affects your hands and feet." And none of that was true for me. I did have a rash and it wasn't on my hands and feet, and so I felt like, "Okay, it’s probably not that," but when I told my midwife, you know, I sort of had generalized itching, she was like, "OK, that's a little concerning. We'll, you know, we'll test you just to be on the safe side." You know, she's like, "I highly doubt that you have it, but..." but lot and behold when the test came back the following week, I did test positive for cholestasis.
Lisa: And do you remember how they test for that?
Amanda: I think they took some blood, and it took a week for the test to process. And so by the time the results came in, it was the following Friday. So I was working from home that day, thankfully, so I didn't have to get this news while I was at the office. But my midwife called and said, you know, "I'm very surprised and sorry to report that your cholestasis test did come back positive. And so the maternal fetal medicine doctor is recommending that you come to the hospital and get induced tonight." So that was, like, four o'clock in the afternoon I got that call, and she was like, "So can you come in by 6?" And I was like, "Can I have until 7?"Because I was just, like, in my mind, trying to process.
Lisa: Did you say–how many weeks were you at this point?
Amanda: 37 weeks. It was, like, you know, kind of that, borderline of like, "Okay, now you're over the line. "
Lisa: Early term.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, and that was a hard sort of moment to try to process that information, because I had been doing all of this research in preparation for this natural, spontaneous birth. And then it was just like, "Okay, that's not happening." And I even, you know, I remember feeling bad about even asking this question at the time, but I was sort of like, you know, "What if I wait? What if I don't get induced? What exactly are the risks?" I'm a very data-oriented person. And so I was like, "Give me the numbers. Like, what are we looking at here?" And she said–you know, and she didn't judge me for asking the question or anything. But she said, you know, "If you were to carry to term, the risk of stillbirth goes up to, like, 3%." And so I was like, "Okay, that's not OK. I'm not okay with that." So it was like, "All right, we're doing this."
Grant: So I got a call at the office, you know, thinking we were still a month out, and, you know, it was Friday afternoon, I sort of had two weeks left to the end of my deadline on the project that I was working on. And Amanda's like, "So...we're having a baby tonight." I was like, "Ok, let me go and talk to the principal on my project. And so I did, and I was very shaky. You know, but everybody was super understanding and, you know, I think excited, to the degree you can with news like this. But yes, so I packed up my stuff and just came right home and got down to packing. Packing for the hospital.
Amanda: Yeah, we hadn't made our go bag yet, so yeah, so you know. Yeah. So we did all that and called a Lyft, I guess.
Grant: It was interesting, like, packing and going to the hospital. Like, you know, maybe the packing would have happened like this, but we didn't imagine that the Uber ride would be like going to summer camp. You've packed a bag and off you go to this thing You were expecting there to be pretty solid labor going on at that point. So that was it was not quite as expected, but it was quite a nice...
Amanda: I was going to say, that was a perk of the unexpected induction, is that I did not have to do that, you know, Lyft ride while in active labor. And I feel like on the way there, yeah, I started–like, my spirits started to lift a little bit, and it was like, "Okay, this is exciting. We're gonna have a baby." And so we got there, I guess, around seven. And they checked me in and they did an ultrasound. I forget the exact order of things, but I yeah, I think they did an ultrasound and kind of estimated baby's size, and listened to the heartbeat and everything, and then
Grant: Showed us to our room.
Amanda: Showed us to our room, and, yeah, I remember they sort of asked a bunch of questions. I remember answering a lot of questions, like, a bunch of times, because it was, like, different doctors coming in and out. But eventually they–Oh, and my midwife was not there for the very beginning. She was coming in the following morning. Yeah, my midwife was not there. She was going to be in the following morning. And so the doctor, who was, I guess an obstetrician, started the process. And so, they started with a Foley balloon. So they put that in, and that was at–oh, one other thing that I forgot to mention–when they first put the contraction monitor on me, she was like, "Are you feeling those contractions?" I was like. "Huh?" And so it turned out that I was already, you know, I guess in very, very early labor. I couldn't really–I mean, once she mentioned it, I was kind of like, "Oh, I guess that could maybe be a contraction," but I was not aware of it. So I was like, "OK, you know, that is probably a good sign," you know? Yeah. So I got all strapped up and put in the Foley balloon, and was supposed to go to sleep, and yeah, that was about 10 o'clock at night, I think, when they did that. And Grant was, you know, sitting in the...
Grant: Chair next to the bed.
Amanda: Fold-out chair next to me. And so we both got pretty poor sleep that night, I think. Which is, you know, it's rough, because–Oscar's over here shaking his head. It's rough because you know you have a big day coming, and you're like, "I need to get my rest." But then it's impossible.
Lisa: Yeah, there's so much beeping and stuff, too. And it's not your bed.
Grant: I was going to say, with Jae, she came–she had turned up maybe at 8:00? Is that right?
Lisa: I was about to ask. You said you had called her on the way to the hospital, right? When you were about to be going.
Amanda: No, I had called her from here.
Grant: Yeah. Yeah. She had the room set up really...
Amanda: So that was the next day, though.
Grant: Was it?
Amanda: Yeah. It was just you and me there on the night. It's a blur, isn't it?
Grant: Such a blur.
Lisa: Yeah, different doulas will do different things. Some of them will come–like with an induction scenario, some of them will come to help you get settled in and then go away until things are getting intense. And then others will just wait until you need them later on down the road. Because we know inductions can take, you know, sometimes more than a full day, sometimes several days.
Amanda: The other...sorry...
Lisa: You're fine.
Amanda: The other, sort of random thing was that our doula had another client who was also, I think, getting induced at the same time. So she knew that that person, I think, you know, maybe had just been induced when I called her, or something like that. I forget exactly how the scheduling worked out. But she, you know–there was a possibility that she was gonna have to send an alternate for us, which would have been really disappointing. She ended up getting the alternate for the other person instead. So we kind of lucked out. But interesting little side note about that, too, is that the reason that, like, it was unexpected that the scheduling worked out that way–like, normally, you know, as a doula, I'm sure you know, like, you schedule things so that you're unlikely to have two clients delivering at the same time. But I was three weeks early in that person was, like, two weeks over, like, past her due date. And I think she said that. So we ended up having a C-section, that person also ended up having a C-section. And even despite the time difference, like, Oscar, even being three weeks early was bigger than the baby, the other baby, who is was two weeks late.
Grant: And he wasn't a big baby. Oscar.
Amanda: No, he wasn't.
Lisa: Yeah, huge range of normal.
Amanda: So, anyway, back to start of the induction. Yeah, so our sleep was crap. And we woke up the next morning and my midwife Caroline arrived first. So that was probably eight o'clock in the morning, or something like that. And so the Foley balloon was still in at that point, and I don't think anything happened, really. Then, you know, she took it out around 10, because they allow, like, 12 hours for it to stretch out the cervix and, you know, it had done its job. So that was kind of step one complete. And then they started me on a low dose of Pitocin that they would sort of ramp up throughout the day. And I guess, Jae arrived shortly after that. And then we had just kind of a nice day with me and Grant and Jae. I think Grant started to mention before, Jae did a really nice job of kind of setting up our room in, like, a nice way. So she sort of, like, draped, like a red scarf or something over the lights and sort of made a warmer lighting.
Grant: And some music.
Amanda: She had some music. Yeah.
Grant: It transformed a pretty sterile-feeling room into actually quite a comfortable and nice space, which made a huge difference to the experience of it all. Yeah, I would definitely recommend, you know, either having a doula do that, or do that as soon as you arrive, if you're able to do it. Big difference.
Amanda: Yeah, and one of the things I appreciated about her, too, is she–you know, this is one of those, it's a little thing, but, like, I would have been nervous to do it. But like when, you know, none of the medical staff were in the room, there was just this loud beeping from the monitors, and she would just go over and turn off, or turn it way down, you know. And it just kind of, like, made for a nicer atmosphere. It's like, "You don't need to be listening to that all the time." Yes, we had a nice time, just, you know, I had to stay kind of, like, strapped to the monitors, and so I couldn't move around too much. But, you know, I was–to the extent that I could I was trying to...Sorry, Oscar's over here pooping. It's a little distracting. Hey, Sweetie. It's ok.
Lisa: Good healthy little one. Do you remember at what point they put you on the continuous monitor? Probably when Pitocin was administered? Or earlier?
Amanda: I was on that right from the start.
Lisa: From the beginning. OK.
Amanda: Yeah, and actually, so when–like before my midwife got there, when I was under the care of the physician, that whole night, one of the reasons I couldn't sleep very well was that I couldn't get up to go to the bathroom. They had me, like, peeing in a bedpan because they wouldn't, like, disconnect me from anything to do that.
Lisa: Oh, man. Usually they'll at least let you off of that to go pee. That stinks.
Amanda: But when the midwife got there, it was kind of like, OK, now it's her rules.
Lisa: Good. Yay, midwife. That just goes to show how different it is from one care provider to the next, as well as from one nurse to the next.
Amanda: Yeah. So they had me strapped to that stuff from the beginning. So when I was just in early labor, I had brought my exercise ball with me. And so, you know, I spent some time kind of sitting on that and, like, moving around and doing, like, some squats and things like that. But, like, all of early labor for me, was like, really not painful at all. Yeah, the medical, like the nurses kept coming in and saying, you know, "Okay. How much pain are you in? Like, rate your pain on a scale of 1 to 10," and I kept saying, "Zero. I'm not in pain." Like, I could feel contractions, but it was not painful. And, you know, it was interesting because I sort of, you know, I read Ina May's Guide, and, like, you know, I sort of chuckled at, like, the use of the term like "wave," you know, the sort of, like, euphemisms, and, you know, saying like, "intense" instead of painful. And I was like, "No, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be painful. Like, I'm okay with that. I'm ready for it. But, like, you know, let's just call it what it is, you know?"
Lisa: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Different people prefer different things. Sure.
Amanda: But for me, personally, I was like, "If it hurts, I'm gonna say it hurts." But it really didn't. It was, you know, it really just was, like, a sensation that I was experiencing. But it was not, like, unpleasant. Yeah, What else?
Grant: I guess it just kind of ramped up during the day. And it didn't really start getting, like, feel like anything was really changing that much until kind of later that evening. So, you know, kind of all day we were able to hang out and, you know, again, it felt a little bit like summer camp. Yeah, it was nice.
Amanda: Yeah. So, I mean, at some point, they had kind of maxed out the Pitocin, and my midwife was, you know, sort of checking me every so often. I think I was maybe four or five centimeters by the time they had maxed out the Pitocin. And still not in active labor, and so, kind of the next step, she was like, "Okay, well, we'll break your water." Which felt really invasive to me And I was kinda like, "Really? Can't we give it a little more time?" So we did end up–and, you know, that was another time when Jae was really helpful because she, you know, she just sort of encouraged me to, like, if I wasn't comfortable, like, just say, you know, "Why don't we wait another hour or so?" So I think we did end up waiting about another hour, and just seeing, you know, if anything changed. And it didn't, you know, it got to a point where I was like, "All right, we need things to progress a little bit." And so, my midwife did break my water.
Lisa: And how do you remember how long this was after–like, from the beginning of the induction?
Amanda: So it was...must have been late afternoon or early evening.
Grant: Feel like it was early evening. Because I had gone out to get food.
Amanda: Right.
Lisa: So is that almost a day later? Because you–when did you check-in? The evening before?
Amanda: They started the induction at, like, 10 PM the previous night. And so now it was probably five or six in the evening. Yeah, so she broke my water, and that pretty quickly made active labor kick into gear.
Grant: I can change him.
Amanda: Okay, thanks. And yeah, I could definitely tell, you know, that, like, something had shifted. And it was no longer just, you know, I couldn't just carry on a conversation. I sort of had to breathe through contractions. I remember that I was kind of kneeling at the foot of the hospital bed. I brought my yoga mat so I had my yoga mat under my knees, and I had brought, like, a little thing of lavender-scented oil. And so we put, like, I think Jae had brought, like, a little cloth, so we put some on a cloth, and I could sort of breathe that nice scent, you know, it's sort of a calming scent. And then Jae and Grant were sort of like applying pressure to my back, which felt nice, or even just touching my back. So that was kind of, I guess things were starting to get a little painful at that point, but it was still sort of not super unpleasant. It was just sort of like "Okay," you know, it felt good that, like, things were progressing.
Amanda: But a little ways into that, the baby's heart started to slow down with each contraction. And so that's when, sort of, things started getting complicated. And so I guess my midwife had me get up on the bed and on my side because they felt like that was a position where, you know, the baby might do a bit better. And so there was a while where I was just sort of on the bed, you know, switching from one side to the other to see, you know, what would work. And that's when things started getting really just uncomfortable, because that wasn't how I wanted to labor. And so that was when kind of things shifted for me from, like, just sort of looking after myself and dealing with my own, you know, sensations to "Okay, now it's about the baby. "And, you know, like everything that I was doing was sort of for him. So that was kind of an interesting, like, transition into motherhood, you know, just during labor, that kind of shifts. And actually Grant might remember a few things that I don't here, so I might wait until he gets back. I'm just trying to make sure I don't leave anything out here.
Grant: And you were up to...
Amanda: To when his heart was slowing down.
Grant: Oh, yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. So that went on for a while. And then there was a doctor that they called in. The resident, who kind of introduced the idea that, you know, if, the baby's heart didn't start, like, you know–he sort explains that it's normal for the heart to slow down at the beginning of a contraction, but normally it comes back up by the end. But in Oscar's case, it was staying slow for longer than they were comfortable with. And so. So if that kept happening, then, you know, they said they might have to do a C- section.
Grant: Yeah, he brought that word into the room, which was, like...probably good that it gave us a chance to start processing what that meant. But it's like Chekhov's gun, you know, it's like you say it at the beginning of the play, and it's gonna get used by the end of the play. So we did start thinking about what that would mean if it headed in that direction.
Amanda: Yeah, but that was hard to hear. That was kind of the more difficult parts of the process was just getting used to that idea. And also being in active labor.
Grant: It got super intense. I feel like–I don't know whether it's because the Pitocin had sort of kick-started the process that went further along than they might have expected. Like, they gave you something to reduce the contractions. Which wasn't...
Amanda: Yeah, that was, like, right before I ended up going in for the C-section. Before that they did the amniotic infusion. So, you know, after the doctor kind of introduced, the idea, you know, I kind of was upset for a minute and kind of worked through that, and then had to, you know, keep laboring and keep, you know, trying different things. So I think it was...
Grant: It was the resident who suggested that maybe they could be, like, a kink in the umbilical cord, or the baby was sort of lying on it in a way that was, you know, restricting the blood, which could have had to do with the de-celerations. So then they suggested doing the amniotic infusion to sort of float the baby up, and hopefully keep any obstruction, you know, in the cord, you know. So that was kind of the next step. The next, you know, pretty invasive...it was pretty tough for me to watch a lot of the stuff that was happening because, you know, it wasn't a lot of choice. You know, there was obviously consent, but there was not a lot of what felt like choice in the matter. You know, and that's I think when Jae the doula was great. She, you know, we could sort of look to her and she's like, "Yeah, this is something that could wait," or "This is something which probably ought to happen now." And, you know, having somebody who had been through it any number of times, too, just as, you know, just as a backup head check on what was gonna happen.
Amanda: Yeah, that's a good way of describing it.
Lisa: Yeah, because in many situations there are alternatives. There are options. But in others there are not as many, or maybe none.
Grant: Right. You know, and the white coat carries a lot of authority.
Lisa: Sure.
Grant: So that was super helpful. Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah, I think it was–oh, right. OK, so it was the doctor who suggested the amniotic infusion, and we were sort of trying to weigh our options. And my midwife had mentioned that the obstetrician on call that night was her favorite doctor at this hospital. Somebody that she really trusted.
Grant: The head of the department, I think.
Amanda: Yeah. So we said, "Okay, why don't we call that person in and see what she thinks?" And so that was Dr. Karr. And she was wonderful. She ended up performing the C-section. But she just explained that, you know, this was kind of our last hope of having a vaginal birth was this– if the amniotic infusion worked. And just in case people don't know, it's basically when they pump fluid back into the uterus.
Grant: And they were doing, like, scalp stim, they were trying a lot of stuff. It was getting pretty invasive.
Amanda: My midwife was trying to do scalp stimulation on the baby at one point, which was quite painful for me. They were really kind of wearing out their options, in a way that was unpleasant. But I also, you know, I understood that it was all to try to help me have the birth that I wanted.
Grant: Yeah, it felt like, at some point there was a long while where they had you on your side, because that was the best for getting oxygen to the baby. It was super super uncomfortable and not a good way to labor. And Amanda was having a pretty tough time.
Amanda: And we should say this is when, you know, sort of, the lessons of your class came in handy for Grant, because he was amazing. And was just, the entire time, you know, just holding my hand and just sort of whispering these mantras, you know, things like–I can't even remember what you said, you know, "Breathe, relax your jaw." You know...
Grant: "Just breathe through this one. You're almost through."
Amanda: Yeah, Yeah. Just really...it was, you know–as uncomfortable as it was at times, it was really, like, my memory of it is sweet because of that, because it was such an intense time. And it had that, you know, bonding effect...
Grant: Yeah. I have never felt so close. Yeah, it was amazing. As hard as it was to watch.
Amanda: Yeah.
Lisa: That's beautiful. And I love to hear it when partners are so present and so supportive, because that's what we need. Especially when things don't go according to plan. Even more so.
Amanda: So, yeah. So once they did the amniotic infusion, and that didn't really have any effect. Oh, and actually, right before they did the amniotic infusion, Jae was, you know, trying to figure out just if there was anything that could be done to, like, make me more comfortable. And she was like, "You know, you could ask for an epidural before they do that." And at that point, I was sort of like, "Yeah, I could do an epidural." But it turned out that there wasn't time for that. So they ended up just doing the infusion. And then, I think after that, they gave me a drug to slow down the contractions. Because at that point the heart de-celerations were, you know, getting to a point that was really kind of worrisome.
Grant: For me that was probably the hardest part. Like, Amanda had her back to all of the doctors, and they were standing around watching the tape with the, you know, all of the monitoring on it. And I could see them, and their faces. And it was like, it's like fans watching a football game where your team is down five points with, like, a minute to go. And it's kind of "Can they make it?" And everyone's sort of biting their nails. And I was like, no way am I telegraphing this to Amanda, but I was starting to get pretty worried. Yeah. So when they said "Time to go," I was like, "All right. Time to go. "
Amanda: Yeah. So it was, you know, I signed a consent form, but it was pretty much like, "Okay, we're doing a C-section, this is what's happening." And by that point, I think, you know, I was resigned to it. I mean, once they started slowing down my contractions, I was kind of like, "Okay, I'm not having the birth that I wanted." But, yeah, once I had signed that form, it was just–everything kicked into high gear. And it was like everything happened so quickly that I think that was when, just, I don't know, the just, the coordination of everyone...
Grant: It was amazing. It's like everyone went on to auto-pilot. Everybody had 1000 things to do, and everybody did it perfectly coordinated. I've never seen such a well-oiled machine.
Amanda: Yeah, I was very impressed.
Grant: It's incredible.
Amanda: So they, you know, wheeled me into the O. R. and poor Grant was left to sort of stand and wring his hands for a few minutes.
Grant: Yeah, it's pretty scary.
Grant: But they–what did they do? They shaved me. They catheterized me. They administered an epidural, like, so quickly. It was amazing. The anesthesiologist was super impressive. And, you know, I guess it was different from the normal epidural in that it just takes effect immediately. I think I've heard that it normally takes, like, 20 minutes or something like that. But this was, like, instantaneous.
Grant: I was worried that I was gonna be led in there, and you were gonna be, like, completely out. Under a general anesthetic and she didn't know...
Amanda: I didn't know whether I was gonna be knocked out or not. You know, I think it was sort of a question, like, whether they would be able to do the epidural, you know, successfully, quickly enough. And thankfully they did. Yeah. And then, you know, by the time they got me all prepped then you came in all suited up.
Grant: They had me sit outside and sort of wait until–I don't know, until maybe they felt comfortable that it was gonna go OK. Because last thing they need is for me to be in there seeing something not going OK. And I don't wanna be in their way, obviously, and so they took me off and got me dressed up in one of those blue suits and a hat and a mask and the boonies. And, you know, the whole deal and brought me in. And said, "Don't look down that end." I don't need to see that either. Yeah. So I was able to sit with Amanda, and she was with it and, you know, yeah, we were able to be there together, you know, really present with each other, you know, while this happened. It was not two minutes after I got there that they lifted him up over the curtain.
Amanda: It was really fast.
Lisa: Yeah. The baby can be born quite quickly. It's all the repair work that takes longer, right? Yeah. And, Amanda, were you, with your epidural, were you, like, numb all the way to your toes? Or was just the regional? Or do you remember?
Amanda: All the way to my toes. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, yeah, because I think that's a faster form than our whole walking epidural. That's why a there's a difference in the time, I believe. Yeah. The walking epidural is a more meticulous kind of thing that takes a little longer.
Amanda: Yeah, so they lifted him out and he had this crazy conehead.
Grant: I was pointing and laughing, saying it looks like a cucumber.
Amanda: He cried.
Grant: He was a little bit blue.
Amanda: Yeah, he was kind of purplish.
Lisa: Most babies are to some extent. Yeah.
Grant: Yeah, they took him over to the little table and, you know, with the oxygen and he pinked up immediately. And I was like, "OK, I think we're okay here."
Lisa: Did you guys know you were having a boy?
Amanda: We did.
Lisa: Okay.
Amanda: And then...
Amanda: They kind of whipped him off to the NICU pretty quickly.
Amanda: They whisked him off. Well, they gave him to you, and you brought him over, and I gave him a little kiss on the head. And then they...he had some fluid in his lungs, and so he needed some help breathing. And so they whisked him off to the NICU. And then they, you know, sewed me up and everything, and the aftermath of the C-section was kind of, I guess, more eventful than I would have expected. I remember feeling, really, like sick to my stomach at one point. But that passed pretty quickly. So I don't know if that was just a reaction to the anesthesia or what.
Lisa: Yeah, likely a side effect of the drugs. Yeah.
Amanda: And then I remember just feeling, like, my heart pounding in my chest in a way that was like, "Is this OK? This is weird." And then I got super shaky,
Grant: Very shaky and very pale. I've never seen her look so pale. Like, just ashen. And just run through the wringer. You know, your body had just done a couple of things which were...
Amanda: Yeah, I remember shaking a lot, but I didn't feel cold, but they kept putting warm blankets on me and eventually that went away and I was just so tired.
Lisa: Hi! Hi! "I want to tell my birth story!"
Amanda: So, I was just exhausted.
Grant: Yeah, we had to sort of hang out for a few hours, and then I was able to go to the NICU and see him, and I brought a little photo of him back. It was tough to see. He was very small. So very...still a little bit kind of purple. He had, like, the CPAP sort of machine, a kind of feeding tube. And there were, you know, a number of cables and cords and what not. And it was pretty tough to see, but it, you know, it was still...
Amanda: Still our baby.
Grant: Still our baby, and [I was] completely overcome with, just, love for this little creature.
Amanda: Yeah. And then Jae left. She came and checked on us once I was out of the operating room, and she had brought all of our stuff that we had had in the room.
Grant: Oh yeah, because they cleaned the room out, like...
Amanda: Like right away. So it was nice to have her take care of all that. And she hung out and talked with Grant for a while. I rested. And then she left. And then we just slept. Yeah, they brought us into the, you know, the postpartum room. We ended up having a room to ourselves the whole time, which was nice.
Lisa: Nice. It's especially nice in a C-section. I'm sorry. I think I cut you off. What were you saying?
Amanda: We didn't pay extra for, you know, a private room or anything. It's
Lisa: Yay!
Amanda: Yeah, it's an expensive hotel room, otherwise.
Lisa: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Usually a minimum of, like, 600 a night.
Grant: It might have been more. Yeah, and we were pretty lucky because, you know, she had a C-section, so we were there for a bit longer. And then there's, like, some procedure you can do where you–I forget exactly how it works. But you ask to stay another night and that triggers another 24 hours before you actually have to leave. So that's worth looking into. I forget exactly how it works. I think the hospital was the one to tell us about that.
Amanda: It was the hospital, yeah.
Grant: I think it's kind of a workaround for the insurance companies, but it gave us, like, an extra day there because, you know, you was still pretty immobile. It would have been tough to get her home before we did.
Amanda: Yeah. So we–I think we got–the timing actually worked out really well for us, because I gave birth at 12:53 on Sunday. Yeah, I guess it was 12:53 like, you know, Sunday morning. And so our first day kind of started then.
Grant: If it had been 11:58, the first day would have been that first two minutes.
Amanda: Three days, I think was the standard for post C-section, and then we got that extra day, which was nice. I mean, mainly because Oscar was in the NICU for six days, or 5- and-a-half days. So it was hard to, you know, it would have been hard to, like, navigate that, you know, going back and forth from home. But as long as we were in the hospital, it was, you know, easier to bring up colostrum, and milk, and just, you know, be able to see him.
Grant: You know, because it's an hour across town from here, by the time you get there and park and get over. It's easily an hour.
Lisa: So you still had to do that for a couple of days, right?
Amanda: For like, one day, I guess.
Grant: We rented a car for that time anyway. Actually, to come home from the hospital, we rented a car for a series of days, which was probably the smartest thing we did.
Lisa: Good idea
Grant: There was no way was I gonna put her on the subway.
Lisa: Right. No, definitely not. Definitely not.
Grant: Seemed,, you know, tough, and by the time we paid for an Uber across that far, you might as well rent a car, so yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, it's true. So were you having to pump right away?
Lisa: Yes.
Lisa: Ugh. On top of having just had abdominal surgery. Awesome.
Amanda: Yeah, so that, you know, those few days in the hospital were kind of a blur.
Lisa: Did you rent, like, a hospital grade pump or were you using your own?
Amanda: They provided a pump. I actually had my own at that point, but it was at home. But they just had, one that I used. Then they had pumps up in the NICU as well. So I had my one in my room and I could use ones up there. Yeah, so I just remember being very, very tired the whole time and pumping. And, you know, I was able to–like at no point did they have to like, wheel me in a wheelchair up to see him or anything. Like, by the time, you know, I could go up to see him, I was able to stand and walk very slowly.
Lisa: Do you mind my asking, were there pain medications you used? And if so, what kind of side effects did you experience?
Amanda: Yeah, so they had me on Percocet and I actually, this is, I guess, one of, like...overall in this hospital, I would say we had a positive experience in all the ways that, you know, in sort of the most important aspects of the experience, they did a fantastic job. I was really happy with the care that we got, but I will say one of the things that, sort of looking back on it, I'm like, "That could have gone better," is they didn't really communicate the side effects to me. So I kind of found out later that, you know, in addition to everything else that I had been through, which obviously was making me tired, the Percocet was also making me tired. So I just remember, like, struggling to stay awake while pumping. And the other side effect was constipation, which is something I had struggled with, you know, throughout much of my pregnancy. So it was kind of like, "Really? More of this?"
Lisa: Yeah, not helpful to aggravate that, because it is so common for us in pregnancy and after birth. Oh, wow. Would have been nice to have been told, and maybe to have alternatives or options.
Amanda: Yeah. So once I left the hospital, I guess, you know, they did give me a prescription for more Percocet that was sort of a different ratio of–what is it? Hydrocodone or Oxycodone or– I think it's Oxycodone and Tylenol. So it's sort of a higher ratio of Tylenol, but I ended up not really taking it once I left the hospital because I, you know, by that time, you know, I think I looked at the side effects on the bottle and I was like, "Oh, that explains a lot. Maybe I just won't take this," because it's not as if it was making the pain go away by any means.
Lisa: And did you have a lot of–also if you don't mind my asking–did you have a lot of gas after the surgery? A lot of people do. So I was just curious.
Amanda: You know, I don't think so. I don't really remember. I probably did, but I just remember a lot of swelling. Like, my ankles were very swollen...
Grant: Her ankles were ridiculous.
Amanda: And it took a while for that to go away.
Lisa: Did you find that putting pressure on the on the incision as it was healing whenever you like, coughed or sneezed, did you need to apply pressure?
Amanda: That was another thing that I learned later that you're supposed to do, that they did not tell me at the hospital. So, yeah, I was, I guess, you know, whenever I had to, like, sneeze or cough or anything like that, I was having a lot of pain. So that was rough. Yeah. For the first little while? Yeah, so that, I guess that, you know, that time in the hospital, it was just, you know, it was hard because we, you know, we wanted to just be with our baby, and he had to be, you know, on the breathing machine. Although they, you know they–over a few days, they kind of turned down the oxygen level on the machine and kind of let him breathe on his own a little more. And eventually he got the, you know, the CPAP thing off, which is lovely. So we could see his face. And then he was just on antibiotics for a while.
Grant: They were worried about having, like, meconium in his lungs.
Lisa: Oh, that's why. Okay.
Grant: They kept him on.
Lisa: Got it. I was gonna ask why? Why antibiotics. But that explains it. Okay.
Amanda: Yeah, so. Oh, and another hard part of that stage was trying to initiate breastfeeding. You know, I had obviously never done it before. He had never done before. And, you know, he's got all these tubes attached to him. Yeah, the setup just wasn't ideal. And so we did have a hard time with that at the beginning. I, you know, he would sort of latch, but didn't suck at all. And so I was just pumping. And then it wasn't until we really got home from the hospital that we started in earnest, trying to nurse.
Lisa: And sometimes when babies were born that early, they do have not the best sucking skills. So that might have been a factor playing into that.
Grant: Somebody said that he's using as much energy as he's getting in milk.
Lisa: Yeah. They have to work hard to get the milk out of the breast. It's good for them, but they do have to work hard.
Amanda: I should mention that the midwife that was there for the birth, she–I remember she came into my room the...kind of the next morning after he was born and was just really great. Like, you know, she had been there the whole time. She had been taking photos during the birth, which was great. And, you know, we sort of cherish those because, you know, and neither one of us obviously was in a position to be documenting that. So it was really, really sweet that we have those photos. But she just came in and, you know, said all the right things, which were basically, you know, "I understand that this was not the birth that you wanted, but don't–you know, people sort of say that, you know, a healthy baby is all that matters, but that's not true. You know, it matters also how you're feeling, and that things didn't go the way you wanted. And it's okay to sort of grieve that and time for yourself to feel all those emotions." And so that was really great to hear. And to actually hear her saying, "I'm sorry that it didn't go the way you wanted." Not as in, you know, she's taking responsibility, but just saying, you know, it's something to sort of be sorry about.
Lisa: Yeah, and too few people hear those words because, like, more often than not, people are told, "You have a healthy baby, healthy mom, what are you complaining about?" And like, that's not helpful. Because there's so much more to us than our physical health. Yeah, So I'm so glad she said that.
Grant: You spend six months constructing, you know, in your mind, how you want it to happen and spending so much time trying to ensure that that happens, planning and, you know, just the ideation of it all. And the visualization of how it's gonna go so that you can do this. And when it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen in a kind of a pretty rapid cascade. So you don't get a chance to process that as it's happening, so much, in a way. You know, so that at the end you're kind of a bit shell-shocked and a bit, you know, your head is spinning a little bit. So I was super impressed that she came in and, you know, just talked about that with us.
Amanda: Yeah. And then there was another of the midwives that I had seen maybe once or twice. I guess she was on call later in the week, and so she came in to kind of check up on me, and she was really great, too. At that time, you know, I was just really struggling with not being able to spend time with Oscar, you know, like I wanted to, and not just have him there. And, you know, I was bummed about not being able to initiate breastfeeding. And she just kind of reassured me that, you know, people put so much weight on kind of the first moments and the first, you know, days after birth. And, you know, that is not fair. You know, it really isn't everything, the way that some people sort of portray it to be. And she just said, you know, "You guys are gonna–you know, once this week is up and you take him home from the hospital, you guys are gonna take off all your clothes, and you're going to get into bed and just snuggle, and it's gonna be amazing."
Lisa: I love that.
Amanda: That just made me feel a lot better, because I did have this idealized sort of notion of the time right after birth. And I felt like, you know, in addition to the birth not going the way I wanted, you know, this time wasn't going the way I wanted. And so just to hear that was really nice. And, you know, then we got through that week and it felt long at the time, but now it's just sort of...we look back on it, and it's like, it was hard, but now we have this amazing child.
Grant: The best baby in the world.
Amanda: Yeah.
Lisa: Did you feel like you guys had...were there specific ways that you both have processed through the birth? Like, have you guys talked about it at greater length, or did you process some of that with your doula, in addition to midwives? Any thoughts on that?
Grant: Yeah, I guess we sort of talked about it. We didn't make a concerted effort to do it, but just in the course of parenting him and reflecting on how it all went.
Amanda: And telling the story, I think, to our friends and family, too, that helped us process things. We did have a visit with Jae, our doula, I guess...I can't remember exactly how long after we got home. Maybe a week or so. She came over and we had maybe an hour visit. And so, you know, we talked. We talked, you know, through it with her to the extent that we felt like doing that. And she kind of reflected that, kind of saying the same thing that I was saying earlier about just the strengthening bond between us as a couple. And she said, you know, watching that, it was sort of a joy for her to watch that process with the two of us, and she could just feel the love between us. And so that was really sweet to hear. And I did actually go to a Caesarean healing event. That must have...I forget exactly when that was, maybe a month on or something like that. And that was nice to just, you know, talk with other people that had had, C-sections that, you know, that they maybe had a bit of trauma associated with.
Lisa: Do you remember who that was with? Was it Mary Esther?
Amanda: Yes. It was.
Lisa: Yeah. Great. I'm glad you heard about that.
Grant: What about breast feeding?
Amanda: Yeah. So I mentioned before, you know, we had a hard time initiating breastfeeding. And we were kind of on our own. Like, there wasn't a lactation consultant there in the hospital to work with us. So we just had kind of the ladies in the NICU, who were just, like, not particularly helpful. I mean, that's not really their job, I guess. But we hired a lactation consultant pretty quickly once we got home. And so she came to our house, and I think at that point, you know, I had managed to get him to latch and suck, but he was just so sleepy, and just, he would always just fall asleep as soon as he got on the breast. And, you know, he didn't have, like, a strong suck, even when he was sucking. So the lactation consultant, you know, sort of witnessed a feeding session and weighed him before and after, on her special scale, and found that, you know, he was only getting about half of what he should have been getting. And so she recommended that I pump more and feed him from a bottle, and to the extent that we needed, supplement. And so we...and I think at that point, we had already been doing a little bit of supplementing with formula. So that ended up being what we did for breastfeeding. And eventually he got much better at it. I'm actually still breastfeeding him now. You know, it's more for comfort than nutrition at this point, but it's really nice, and I, you know, I did have a hard time with it early on, but I'm really glad that I stuck with it. At some point, I did end up seeing another lactation consultant because, I just wanted to see whether there was an actual medical issue. Because even with all the pumping that I was doing, you know, I was pumping about six or seven times a day, and my supply was not increasing substantially. And so I just wanted to see if there was a medical reason, if there was something that could be prescribed for that. And so I saw a lactation consultant who was also a nurse practitioner. And so she, you know, she would have been able to prescribe something if that was necessary. But she tested my prolactin levels, and they were normal. And, so, you know, she just said–oh, she recommended some supplements and I'm still taking those. I'm not sure how much they're doing at this point, but...
Lisa: Like Fenugreek? Was that one of them?
Amanda: That, actually...so the ones that she prescribed are Shatavari, I think that's the main ingredient. And then there's a lot of other herbs is like milk thistle and stuff in there. So I'm taking those and also Fenugreek, and it did definitely make a difference. But I'm not pumping, you know, I'm not really pumping anymore at this point. And so my supply is decreasing again. But, you know, it's not as big of a deal because I'm not trying to do anything close to exclusive breastfeeding now.
Lisa: Yeah, yeah. He's getting most of his nutrition from the solids, right? At this point.
Amanda: Yeah. Oh, and the other issue I had was that for some reason, I kept getting clogged milk ducts, which could get really, really painful. And to this day, I'm not sure why I had that issue.
Grant: It was like every day for I forget how long, like weeks.
Amanda: Yeah, it felt like I was getting one every day or every other day. And I tried–what do you call it? Soy lecithin. I'm not sure that that did anything, but eventually it just went away. I think around the same time that Oscar got better at nursing, that problem went away, so it might have just been that, you know that.
Amanda: [inaudible]
Grant: You had that other little device that you got.
Amanda: In a moment of desperation, I ended up ordering this little thing that...it's like a vibrating thing that you're supposed to, like, you know, sort of...
Lisa: Kind of vibrate it out? The plugged duct?
Amanda: To move the clog along. Again, I don't know whether that did much of anything.
Lisa: Did you ever do the breastfeeding, like, on all fours? Like, you know, where your breast is hanging down?
Amanda: I did not try that.
Lisa: This is one of the most popular remedies, so I've heard from students, for unclogging the ducts. Sounds really hard to me. I never had to try it.
Amanda: Yeah, so breastfeeding was challenging, but ultimately rewarding. And yeah, I think, the second lactation consultant that I saw, you know, I remember I was sort of stressing out over just the amount of formula that Oscar was getting, and just, like, you know, "What should I do? Should I be pumping more?" And, you know, she's looking at my little questionnaire I filled out, and she's just like, "You're pumping six or seven times a day. Like..."
Grant: What more are you gonna do?
Lisa: My goodness, that's a lot.
Amanda: "You need to get out!" Which kind of took that pressure off, which was really helpful. And yeah, we've been fine ever since.
Lisa: Nice.
Amanda: He eats what he eats. He gets breastmilk, he gets formula, now he's eating, you know, all the fruits and vegetables that we make for him. And he's really thriving.
Amanda: Yeah, so he was born at 6 pounds, 10 ounces, I think, which is, you know, a decent size for 37 weeks.
Grant: Dropped down to six and change.
Amanda: Yeah, he dropped down to, almost, like, six even, you know, sort of in the 1st week or so. And then by two months he had doubled in size. He was 12 pounds.
Lisa: Oh, wow.
Amanda: You can tell he's going to be be a giant. He's in like 99th percentile for height.
Lisa: Wow.
Amanda: Takes after his father.
Lisa: Well, this has been wonderful. Are there any other things that you haven't gotten to share that you wanted to share? And/or any insights for people who are expecting babies? Or reflections on, you know, your first year or so of being parents?
Amanda: Yeah, I guess I would just say, you know, try to go into it, like, you know, given how everything went with the birth, you know, it didn't go the way that I expected it. But I also don't regret any of the preparation that I did. So I would say, you know, do the level of preparation that makes you feel comfortable and that you want to do. You know, we have friends who did virtually no preparation, and they had pretty complication-free births.
Grant: Just regular hospital, physician-attended....You know, they didn't do a birth plan, they didn't do any reading, they didn't do any birthing classes. And we were like, "What, are you people nuts?" And they just popped out two perfectly healthy babies.
Amanda: Yeah. And they're fine with it. I would never have gone into it without the level of preparation that we did. But, you know, if it's not right for you, then don't do it. I would say that, and just kind of, try to be flexible with everything. You know, I think we did a pretty good job of kind of pivoting when the moment came.
Grant: I was gonna say–I didn't mention it when we were talking about it, but–watching Amanda hear the next piece of news that it wasn't going the way she wanted, take a breath, take it in stride, pivot onto, you know, onto the next path... just watching her do that was incredible, knowing how much time and effort and care she'd put into planning how she wanted it to go. So watching her do that was just mind blowing to me.
Amanda: Yeah, and I think that was a part of your class that I really appreciated, too, was that you sort of covered the spectrum of scenarios and birth types. Because that–yeah, I guess that's another piece of advice that I would give to people is just, you know, even if you're hoping for, you know, a certain type of birth, still, you know, research other types because you don't know it's gonna go.
Lisa: Having a conversation over there.
Grant: Just enjoy every single minute of it. It goes so fast.
Lisa: It does.
Amanda: Everyone says that.
Lisa: It's one of those things, though, you don't really get it until you're in it, right? It's just this experiential thing where, yeah, you hit this time warp. And Grant, any tips from the perspective of supporting your beloved through labor?
Grant: You just have to be more present than you have ever been. And you have to be there with that person, for that person. You know, it's sort of about you, but it's not about you. You gotta be there for that person. They're doing the hardest thing you've ever seen anybody do, and whatever they need, you gotta be there to do it, and be nose to nose, when you're going through this. And just breathe with them. You know, figure out the mantras that get you through it, each thing. You just have to be so present. And, you know, I couldn't have been more impressed with her or loved her any more. Just amazing.
Lisa: You just gave my chills. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. Again. I didn't mention this earlier, but actually this is their do-over because my audio wasn't quite good the last time we tried. So thank you for being willing to share again. It's been wonderful to hear another version of this story. And so I hope to see you guys in the neighborhood once we are not–we're recording this about a week in to being all–everybody being stuck in our houses due to this dumb COVID-19 thing that we hope will go away and die a quick death.
Grant: Just hunkering down.
Lisa: Yeah, hunkering down. All right, well,
Grant: And extra time with him during the day, so...
Lisa: Oh, yeah. Nice.
Grant: Have to look at the upside.
Lisa: Yes. Quality family time. Absolutely. All right. Well, thanks again. Have a great day.
Amanda: Okay, you, too.
Grant: Bye.
Lisa: Bye.
Lisa: So that wraps up today's birth story with Amanda and Grant. Someone might ask, "Why would someone prefer a vaginal birth over a Cesarean?" Cesarean Birth is major abdominal surgery, and, as such, carries more risk with it than a vaginal birth. While we're thankful we have the option when we need it, like in Amanda's case, it's generally not a physically healthier birth for babies or moms. If you'd like to learn more about Cesarean birth, including the most common reasons for a Cesarean birth being necessary, tips for preventing an unnecessary Cesarean, tips for healing from a Cesarean birth and more, check out our Instagram or Facebook April 2020 posts. Our handle is @birthmattersnyc. You can also find links to some resources on Cesarean on the show notes for this episode.
Lisa: I wanted to talk real quick about using essential oils for labor. Did you notice how Amanda mentioned using essential oils put on a cloth for her to smell? This is a really wise strategy for labor. If you're pregnant, you likely have noticed a very sensitive sense of smell. This sensitivity often becomes even more heightened in labor. What scent you like one minute you may hate the next minute, so it's best to never put anything strongly scented on her body near the laboring person's head. It should be far away from her nose or be on something removable, like a cloth, sniff stick or diffuser. Because essential oils are potent, it's going to be safer to use in pregnancy, labor or while breastfeeding by diffusing instead of topically or by ingesting. There are many essential oils you can use for labor, but the top two I recommend are lavender for its anti-anxiety effects, and peppermint oil for several uses, including number one: quelling nausea, which is very common in labor; number two: for a quick pick me up when you're feeling like your energy is lagging, because it's an invigorating scent; and number three: this one may be surprising if you've never heard of it, to help you pee or poop during labor or after birth. Isn't that a funny one? Either sniffing or putting a couple of drops of peppermint oil into the toilet has this bizarre but wonderfully magical effect of helping us release our public floor sphincter muscles. I'll link to some resources on essential oils in this episode’s show notes, because there are many others you can use in this time in your life that could be helpful and therapeutic.
Lisa: If you'd like to learn a little more about cholestasis, check out Episode 15. For the next two weeks' episodes, we have the most epic birth story I think I might have ever heard. I think you'll be amazed at Sarah's unbelievable positivity and fortitude through her days-long labor. Here's a sneak peek.
Sarah: My mental state was I was going to be a birthing warrior, and I believed that I could get through anything. I believed my body knew what it was doing and I could get through anything. So that was my mind set. When I would start to falter, I would be, like, "I am a birthing warrior. I'm gonna do this. I am getting this baby out. He is coming out." Like, and I kept thinking to myself, like, "I want to see my baby. I want to see my baby." And every team that would–because we had seen so many teams pass through at that point, and they would say, "Sarah, you're gonna have–I'm gonna come back tomorrow..."
Sarah: "The next time you see me, your baby's gonna be out."
Sarah: "You're gonna have your baby."
Chris: And the first time, that's encouraging. And the third time, I'm gonna kill someone.
Lisa: The thought I'll leave you with today is to remember through this time that you can navigate the unknown. Thanks for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast. Until next time, stay safe, wash your hands, and be well.—-END—-
