Today, Birth Matters alums Jess & Rich share the story of their firstborn son’s birth. Jess explains how super-prepared she was, reading up on everything she could get her hands on, hiring a doula in the 2nd trimester, focusing on eating nutrient-dense foods, taking prenatal yoga classes and childbirth education classes. She proceeds to share how, while she had very much hoped for a completely unmedicated birth, she and Rich were able to swing with the curve balls they were dealt toward a satisfying, great birth experience. They go into details about being induced at 41 weeks 6 days after refusing to be scheduled for several days leading up to that, and proceeding with an induction using cytotec, a foley balloon, and artificially rupturing the membranes. This story is an example of an induction in which pitocin wasn’t needed (not the most common road for an induction to take, but can happen), for which Jess was very thankful. They’ll also share about how they chose a doula, how Rich and doula Tia worked together optimally, and about early breastfeeding challenges and receiving the support of both Tia and then an IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant). Finally, they’ll share a couple of tips for the journey into parenthood.
Episode Topics:
Prenatal preparation - researching lots, taking prenatal yoga classes, hiring birth doula, focus on nutrition, taking birth classes
Docs recommend induction before Jess wants to, turning down induction for several days, doula accompanies her to one visit to help support her wishes being honored
They try everything under the sun to start labor
Check into NYU hospital at 41 weeks, 6 days for induction
Doula arrives early on
Start with cytotec & foley balloon
OB artificially ruptures membranes (bag of waters), things get very intense
More talk about the doula -- specifically Rich explaining the dynamic between Tia and him, a little more on the doula interview process
Vomiting a lot in active labor
Gets urge to push and begins shaking a lot -- they think she’s 8 or 9 cm (in transition) but ends up being 6cm
Opts for the epidural, details on administration, Jess has a moment of mental clarity
Got some much-needed sleep and to numb the urge to push too early
Rich has trouble sleeping due to nerves
Pushing stage only about 30 minutes
Meeting their son -- discussion of when they felt bonded to baby, Rich announcing baby’s sex, waiting a couple of hours to name the baby
Challenges of a shared room in postpartum, going home earlier than standard
Value of a tall water bottle with a big straw for labor & breastfeeding
Baby blues
Early breastfeeding challenges and getting professional lactation support
Diagnosis with and treatment for mastitis
Returning to work and pumping
Staggering your leave from work with partner if you can
The need for support in postpartum
Rich’s advice on being flexible and pitching in as needed
Resources:
Natural Breastfeeding online course (preview/read more here, but purchase with Lisa’s discount here)
Jess’s original written birth story (on our blog)
Prenatal Yoga Center (NYC classes, and podcast mentioned is on this website)
Tia Dowling, doula
The First Forty Days: The Art of Nourishing the New Mother (postpartum cookbook / book Jess mentioned) by Heng Ou*
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Transcript
Lisa (00:00:00): You are listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 30.
Rich (00:00:03): I had a hard time believing he was real. I think because we had done so much preparation and taken your course and knew about the process, I forgot at the end of it that there'd be a baby. I thought I'd cry going into it. And then when he came out I was just kind of in shock. They were really good about skin-to-skin right away, so I saw him wailing on her chest and I remember thinking, "Whoa, this is a real person that we're about to bring home!" And that's all that I could conjure up in the moment. I didn't get emotional or–I was happy, but I just, I wasn't like any of the men in the video you showed us that were instantly in tears. I just kind of was like, "Whoa, look at that!"
Lisa (00:00:51): Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on the show is not intended as medical advice, or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. If you enjoy this show, we'd be incredibly grateful if you'd share it with a friend. You can follow and share our posts on social media @birthmattersnyc, or simply tell them to search for Birth Matters wherever they listen to podcasts.
Lisa (00:01:34): Today, Birth Matters alums Jess & Rich share the story of their firstborn son’s birth. Jess explains how super-prepared she was, reading up on everything she could get her hands on, hiring a doula in the 2nd trimester, focusing on eating nutrient-dense foods, taking prenatal yoga classes and childbirth education classes. She proceeds to share how, while she had very much hoped for a completely unmedicated birth, she and Rich were able to swing with the curve balls they were dealt toward a satisfying, great birth experience. They go into details about being induced at 41 weeks 6 days after refusing to be scheduled for several days leading up to that, and proceeding with an induction using cytotec, a foley balloon, and artificially rupturing the membranes. This story is an example of an induction in which pitocin wasn’t needed (not the most common road for an induction to take, but can happen), for which Jess was very thankful. They’ll also share about how they chose a doula, how Rich and doula Tia worked together optimally, and about early breastfeeding challenges and receiving the support of both Tia and then an IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant). Finally, they’ll share a couple of tips for the journey into parenthood.
Lisa (00:02:47): Before we begin today's story, this episode is brought to you by the Natural Breastfeeding Online Course. Are you wondering what breastfeeding will be like? Have you heard it's really hard and really painful from friends? I would like to share with you this fantastic online course that was created by top breastfeeding experts. In the natural breastfeeding online course, here are just a few things you'll learn: that breastfeeding doesn't have to be painful, and it shouldn't be, and how the position you breastfeed in can make all the difference in the world; the 40-day blueprint to maximize milk production and help you meet your long term goals, including returning to work; how to relax while breastfeeding so you don't have to choose between getting your rest and feeding your baby; how to prepare your home environment for safety and convenience; how to identify when you need to get help and where to find it; and the most common reasons breastfeeding derails. The course is broken down into 60 brief videos, each titled as common questions new breastfeeding parents have, so you can pick and choose the questions you have or go through all of it. While the regular price of the course is $147, because I'm a professional member, I'm thrilled to offer this course to you at a steep discount. To learn more or grab the course, visit the show notes for this episode at birthmattersshow.com or visit birthmattersnyc.com/links and click the Natural Breastfeeding Online course button. Now let's get started with today's birth story.
Lisa (00:04:11): Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have Jessica and Rich with me, and actually I should have asked you, Jessica, before we started recording, do you prefer to be called "Jess" or "Jessica"?
Jess (00:04:25): Jess is fine. But I will answer to both.
Lisa (00:04:27): Gotcha. Well, welcome to the show. Right now, Jess is with us, and hopefully Rich will be able to join us at some point. He's putting the little one down right now for a nap.
Jess (00:04:39): Hopefully.
Lisa (00:04:42): So you gave birth a little over a year ago, right?
Jess (00:04:46): Yeah, we just celebrated a first birthday in December, so officially 13 months. It flew by. Like everyone tells you. It actually does fly by.
Lisa (00:04:56): Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a party or any little gathering?
Jess (00:05:00): We did. We had, we had, like, an unreasonably large party for a baby who will never remember that he had a first birthday party.
Lisa (00:05:08): It's more for you at that age, right?
Jess (00:05:10): It really is, but Rich's family is all here in the area and my family all flew up from Georgia. So we just decided to, like, have a whole thing, so it was really fun.
Lisa (00:05:20): Nice. That's great. Well, so would you like to share anything about your pregnancy journey and what it was like? What kinds of steps did you take to prepare yourself for giving birth and becoming a parent?
Jess (00:05:36): Yeah. I'm, like, a chronic over-researcher, so I did a lot of reading. I read a lot of books. I also, like, I was formerly a dancer and so it was really important to me to, like, stay in shape just because everyone talks about, like, we talked—we actually talked a lot about this in your class where, like, birth is a marathon. And it is. And so I kind of knew that, like, it was the point in my life where I might want to work out the least, but it was, it was, like, more important to work out then than ever before, really. And so I did a lot of prenatal yoga, which I found so, so helpful. I would recommend it to anyone, even if you've never done yoga before, I recommend it. Just because it was, like, not just physically preparational but also just, like, emotionally, and, like, just really tuning into your breath all the time was so, so helpful. And even just kind of, like, lowering the stress levels, like, during pregnancy I felt, like, that was even helpful. I actually told one of my coworkers the other day that I wish I could go back to a prenatal yoga class, even though I'm not pregnant, because it was just that amazing. So that's what I did and I would, I would recommend it to anyone hands down.
Rich (00:06:45): We were also–we prepared nutritionally, too. We were, I would say over-prepared in a good way to make sure that Jess had all the right things in her system throughout her pregnancy. We bought several cookbooks and our kitchen was always a mess because we were constantly cooking, but I think it paid dividends. I would–I wasn't the one who was pregnant, but yeah, I think I would do that all over again if we had to. So yeah,
Lisa (00:07:13): I love that. That's great. And one thing I forgot to mention before we hit record is if you want to promote any local businesses or your care provider or anybody you worked with along the way, I love to name those. If it was a positive thing. So I was just curious where you took your yoga classes.
Jess (00:07:32): Yeah. I actually took all my classes with the Prenatal Yoga Center, so they are on the Upper West Side, but they have, like, satellite classes throughout the week. So there was a class that was closer to where I worked downtown, so I went to that class every week, which was really great. And then closer to–and, like, on Saturdays or kind of, like, closer to the due date, I actually ended up going to the Upper West Side location quite a lot. So it was really great. I would highly recommend it. Their teachers are so knowledgeable and gracious. They're amazing,
Lisa (00:08:02): They're wonderful. And the woman who runs it, Deb Flashenberg, has a great podcast by the name of "Yoga Birth Babies." Absolutely love that podcast. So, shout out to Debbie.
Jess (00:08:13): If you take her class, you're just like, "Wow!"
Lisa (00:08:17): That's great. Prenatal yoga is so amazing. So I'm really glad that you mentioned that. Glad that you experienced that, the benefits of that.
Jess (00:08:24): Absolutely. Yeah.
Lisa (00:08:26): Nice. Other ways? So prenatal yoga, nutrition, were there other things?
Jess (00:08:31): Yeah. And obviously I took your class. That's how I know you.
Lisa (00:08:33): Right, right. And how did you find the class?
Jess (00:08:37): Google. You have really good SEO.
Lisa (00:08:39): Yay!
Jess (00:08:42): Yeah, no, I found your class on Google and then after I had, after I had done researching, we actually found out that we actually did know people that had taken your class and so then I talked to them and they had nothing but amazing things to say about you also. So I was like, "Well, this clearly a sign." It was definitely also, like, a huge plus that you were Queens-based because, like, everything, like, I just love to, like, stay in the neighborhood and, like, stay local and kind of, like, know the people that you're, you know–especially being a parent, I feel like that is definitely key. It's, like, building your community around you is so, so important. So that was definitely a huge plus as well.
Lisa (00:09:15): Yeah. When we took birth class, one of my–I mean, I loved our birth class. It was a total game changer. But one thing I kind of wished that I had realized was that I wish I had been able to find one that was in our neighborhood for the reasons that you just said. To be able to connect with people who are living in that immediate area is huge, because when you just have a little bitty baby, you're not up for traveling all over borough to borough in New York City, you know, and most of the people we took the class with were in, like, Manhattan or Brooklyn, and we're in Queens and so we–it was hard to stay in touch at least long-term, you know? Yeah. So great. Nice. Was there anything else in terms of prep?
Jess (00:09:56): Yeah. The last thing I'll mention and it'll come up again later, is that we did hire a doula. Actually, like, immediately when I got pregnant I knew I wanted a doula. I had heard about doulas, I had done some reading, so I knew that was something I wanted and I'm, like, so, so glad that we did, and I would recommend having a doula to anyone and that's another thing where I'd be like, "Take prenatal yoga, like, get a doula, take birth classes, like, these are things that you will not regret doing, ever." So yeah. So we ended up hiring a doula as well and that was a game changer for us.
Lisa (00:10:25): Do you remember about how many weeks you were when you hired the doula?
Jess (00:10:28): I believe I was kind of let's say second trimester, sometime, in the 20s or something.
Lisa (00:10:38): That's nice. That's earlier than a lot of people.
Jess (00:10:41): It was early. Like I said, I'm a, I'm a chronic, like, over-researcher over-preparer. So, like, I had, like, a timeline. Like, I think my registry was, like, already done by, like, second trimester. So like, I definitely, like, over-prepared in some ways.
Lisa (00:10:54): That's great. How many prenatals did you have with your doula before the big day?
Jess (00:10:58): We had a two prenatal appointments. And then we had two postnatal appointments as well. And then she actually ended up coming with us to a doctor's appointment shortly before the labor, which is–we'll get into that later. But yeah.
Lisa (00:11:13): Nice. How'd you find your doula?
Jess (00:11:15): Doula net?
Lisa (00:11:15): Doulamatch.net, maybe?
Jess (00:11:19): Doulamatch.net. Yeah. Which was I thought was kind of, like, a weird way to find a doula because it's kind of, like, online dating, you like put in things, and then, like, they show you people who are, like, available and match your criteria. So we actually met with, like, five doulas, which might've been overkill. Again, I'm an over-preparer, over-researcher, but I'm like–and they were all actually great. Honestly, like, they were–I didn't have any, like, negative reactions about any of them, but when I met Tia, like, within, like, the first 10 minutes of having a conversation with her, I was like, "This is it. She's the one." And we just like–it was, like, a personality thing, which I think a lot of people will tell you about a doula. There's something about–you just have to have that, like, connection and that personality thing to, like, make it work.
Lisa (00:12:03): Definitely. Yeah. So important because you're going to be at your most vulnerable and you want to be comfortable with that.
Jess (00:12:11): Yeah, absolutely.
Lisa (00:12:11): So I think it's fabulous that you interviewed as many as you did. Because most people are kind of scrambling at the very end of pregnancy as they come to birth class and realize, "Oh this is a thing–this actually really is a valuable thing to consider." And, and so it makes it harder to interview that many when you–when it's at the end of pregnancy. Great. Well thanks for sharing all that. I love all the preparation that you did. So do you want to jump into your birth story?
Jess (00:12:41): Yeah, definitely. Funny enough. I actually had to read it last night because you had emailed me shortly after I gave birth, and you kind of asked how it went, and so I had, like, typed all of it up, and it's a blog post now, which is great.
Lisa (00:12:55): I'll link to that in the show notes. Yeah.
Jess (00:12:58): Yeah. I'm so glad that you did that, because I think I would've forgotten a lot of details if I hadn't have written it down. I mean, it hasn't even been that long. It's been, like, a year. And I had to reread it already to remember kind of, like, all the things that happened. So, yeah, that was great. Yeah. So to get into it, I was like, as I said, over-prepared, over-researched, and I had taken your class, and so I was like–which was incredibly extensive in terms of just, like, all the things that you can know about labor. And so I was, like, very much dead-set on having, like, a natural birth. I decided that I wanted to be in a hospital, and we visited a birthing center. I didn't really feel comfortable there. It just made me a little bit nervous to just, like–my brain was going to the worst case scenario. And so I just, like, couldn't–I said I didn't feel like I would feel comfortable giving birth there.
Lisa (00:13:47): That was a freestanding one?
Jess (00:13:49): Yes. Yeah. So I didn't feel comfortable there, and so I was like, you know, I'm going to stick with the hospital, but I still want that, like, natural labor experience. So I knew that was going to be a little more difficult in a hospital setting, but I was confident, like, with my doula, with education that we had, that was something that was achievable. But as we all know, nothing in birth ever goes according to your plan. So I ended up actually not delivering until 42 weeks, but my healthcare provider throughout the time–who I really liked–had told me that she would allow me to go up until 41 weeks and six days. She was like, "I don't feel–I'm not concerned about you carrying late." She's like, "Baby looks fine." She's like, "I'll let you go as long as you want."
Jess (00:14:31): She's, like, "Up until 41 weeks, six days, like, do whatever you need to do." She's like, "If you decide you want to go in earlier, that's fine, but whatever." And I was like, "Okay, that makes me feel better." Like, my mom was actually–carried almost 42 weeks with all three of us. And so I was like, if I'm anything like my mother, this is, like, a very real possibility. So I was mentally prepared for that. But honestly that was like–that last week was probably, like, one of, like, the hardest weeks of pregnancy. Because obviously, you know, you're physically tired, you're tired. And then just emotionally, I was upset because I was feeling a lot of pressure to just kind of, like, go into labor even from like, well-meaning people who are texting you, like, "Is the baby here yet?" And they're all like, you know, they just want to know because they love you, but you're also like, "No, leave me alone. The baby's not here."
Jess (00:15:23): But I remember that being a very, like, difficult week. Funny enough, my health care provider went on vacation right at my 41 week appointment, so she was not going to be around anymore. And there were other doctors at the practice that would be delivering the baby. I didn't particularly, like, have an affinity towards any of the other doctors in the practice. She was kind of, like, the only one that I really liked. So that was definitely a bummer, and I kind of wish I had known that sooner. The other doctors were not as lenient with letting me go as late as she was. And so they were very much pushing me to induce at 41 weeks, three days, 41 weeks, four days. We went to the doctor a lot that last week where they kept doing stress tests. Everything looked fine. There was no reason to induce other than the fact that they just wanted to, or that was just kind of, like, their professional opinion that I should do that. So that was really, really tough. It actually even got to the point where the front desk at the doctor's office had called me and said like, "Here's your appointment time at NYU." And I was like, "I'm not going to be there."
Lisa (00:16:29): I was just about to ask you, like, were you pushing back? It sounds like you must have been pushing back if you kept going later.
Jess (00:16:36): Yeah. They just kept, like, having me come back in, and I guess they assumed that I would, like, eventually change my mind. But yeah, like, at one point they called and they were like, "Okay, you need to be at NYU at 3 o'clock," or whatever. And I was like, "I'm not trying to be, you know, a horrible patient." I was like, "But I just want you to know I'm not going to be there. You know, like, you should give this slot to somebody who actually needs it or wants it because it's not going to be mine. I'm not going to go." So I was pretty, like, straightforward with them. The last doctor's appointment we had at 41 weeks, four or five days, I don't remember. My doula, Tia, came with us. Because at that point I think I was just like–I was really tired of having to, like, assert myself so much, and I felt very, like, dragged down. And so she was really amazing. And you know, she just kind of–whenever the doctor would ask questions, she'd be like, "Jessica, what do you think about that?" And she would just kind of–like, just having her presence there, and having her kind of, like, rephrase questions, or just kind of help me think through what the options were was really, really helpful. And I'm so, so thankful that she was there, and that we had her support, because I think without it, I think I just would have, like, maybe given up. Or just either not given up but, like, felt very uncomfortable with the whole thing, because doctors are just very pushy and that's just how they are.
Jess (00:17:54): But yeah, so our induction was actually scheduled for 41 weeks and six days, which I was like, "That's what you told me. So that's what I'm going to go with." It was 4:00 PM 41 weeks and six days. It was the latest appointment that I could possibly get. So, like, up until that point, the whole last week we did literally everything that anyone has ever done to induce labor twice. Like, not once. Twice. Literally everything. Like, I kid you not, it was, like, so much research, so much Googling and, like, nothing was happening. I had some contractions the night before we went into the hospital that stopped and I, like, walked up and down the stairs and did all those other things and, like, could not bring them back. And I was just kind of, like, the last day, I was like, "You know what? It's just not going to happen, and we're just going to go in. This is how it's meant to be."
Lisa (00:18:42): And do you remember–I know you said you just said walking stairs, but were there–what were just a sampling of some of the other things you tried?
Jess (00:18:49): Oh my goodness. All of the different teas, like, red raspberry, like, castor oil, which was, like, my last resort. But then I did it because I was like, nothing else was working. Maybe this will. It also didn't work. Let's see. A lot of sex, a lot of that. Spicy foods, there was...Oh my goodness, I can't even remember all the other things. I was, like, a lot of walking. I was walking so much to the point where my doula was actually like, "Hey, I know you want to induce labor, but, like, don't tire yourself out." She was like, "Because if you do induce labor, you want to have energy to be able to labor." And I was like, "You're right. Okay." So I stopped walking quite as much, but I was walking a lot. So pretty much everything that I could think of or research on the internet I was doing,
Lisa (00:19:35): It's worth trying, you know, it could have helped, and you never know.
Jess (00:19:41): Yeah. And then, like, the–I remember the night before I went in, Rich was really, really great. And he was like, "Okay, we're going to get, like, your mind off of everything. And then like, maybe, you know, like, who knows, maybe something will happen because you're, like, stressed about being induced." And I was like, "Okay, great." So we went to, like, this tapas place and I had a glass of wine, which I hadn't had in months, so that was really nice.
Lisa (00:20:04): Tapas. You said "tapas." At first I thought you said "topless." I was like, "Wait. What?"
Jess (00:20:07): Not quite. Yeah, we went to a topless bar and had some wine.
Lisa (00:20:15): As part of the whole sex thing.
Jess (00:20:18): Yeah. Lots of people do different things. Oh man. Yeah, that would be weird. Oh. And then we went and saw "Book of Mormon" because we decided that I should go see something, like, really funny, like, something that's gonna, like–laugh and like, not, like, nothing too serious or was gonna make me cry, or like, you know, feel upset. So we saw "Book of Mormon" and then went home and actually had contractions at dinner and then during the show a little bit and then I couldn't get them back. At, like, intermission I, like, started walking up and down the stairs at the theater and, like, nothing. So.
Lisa (00:20:52): You really were trying so hard.
Jess (00:20:55): Yeah. So I was just telling Lisa all the things that we did to try to induce labor.
Rich (00:21:00): Oh, yeah. A lot. We got really tired of date nights.
Jess (00:21:05): Oh yeah. Everyone kept telling us, like, "Go on a date night because it's, like, the last time you'll be able to go on a date for a while." And at the end we were like, okay, "We've been on, like, a million dates, and we've seen all the movies."
Lisa (00:21:16): "I'm sick of you."
Rich (00:21:19): We saw movies we didn't even want to see. People kept telling us to go out, so we just tried to find ways to go out and then we looked at each other at dinner one night and said, "Let's just make some pasta tomorrow night. Hang out at home. This is getting ridiculous."
Jess (00:21:36): Yeah. Spending a month at home after having a baby was, like, kind of welcome after that. I was like, "I'm kind of okay being home for a little while. I'm, like, dated out." So induction was scheduled 41 weeks, six days at 4:00 PM. I even went so far as to call the charge nurse on the Labor and Delivery floor and ask her what time I should be there. Because a lot of times you get there for an induction and you end up waiting three or four hours because they don't have a room because–and someone who is in active labor takes precedence over someone who's not, which makes sense. And so I actually called and she was like, "Oh, you know," she's like, "actually by four we'll have a room for you." She's like, "Go ahead and come at four." And so I was like, "Okay, great." And we actually did, like, immediately walk into a room. So that was nice. There was no, like, sitting in triage for three hours, like, waiting for something to happen. So that was really great.
Jess (00:22:24): We delivered at NYU, which generally was, like, a good experience. There was, like, one nurse that I didn't like, but I had, like, four nurses over the course of the induction. So one out of four is, like, fine. The other three were amazing. All of the nurses in the mother and baby floor were, like, astonishingly amazing. Like, I was just like, "How do you take care of so many people and babies?" And, like, they're amazing. So that was a really great experience. But, yeah, so we went in at four o'clock I guess. And they started with a round of cytotec, which luckily again, because I took your class, I, like, knew all of the things that could happen at an induction. And so it was really helpful to just, like, mentally be prepared and know, like, what was probably happening, or probably coming the next. And we'd also, before we'd gone in, we had revisited the birth plan with Tia as well. Because I was concerned–like, obviously it wouldn't be a completely unmedicated birth with, you know, having an induction in the way that I did. So I kind of wanted to, like, reset expectations around what might not be possible, how we might adjust things.
Lisa (00:23:29): Did they try to sweep your membranes or strip your membranes before?
Jess (00:23:34): I asked at every appointment and they couldn't because I wasn't dilated, like, not even a centimeter.
Lisa (00:23:39): Right. Okay.
Jess (00:23:39): So they couldn't, but I did ask, which, I knew to ask because you had told me that and I was, like, very hopeful. I was like, "Maybe I'll be, like, one centimeter dilated today and they'll be able to..." And every time she was like, she was like, "I'm sorry." She's like, "I can't."
Lisa (00:23:54): Yeah. Physically too shut. Okay.
Jess (00:23:56): Yeah. So even when I got to the hospital and they did an exam first and she was like, "You're barely a centimeter." She's like, "Not really even one centimeter." So I was like, "Okay." So, like, labor was really not starting on its own in this case, like, I was resigned, it was like, "You know what?" I was like, "This is probably the only way this baby is coming." So that was a good thing for me I think to, like, realize, like, "Okay, this is how it's going to happen. It's going to be good." So we did start with a round of Cytotec.
Lisa (00:24:27): Was that administered vaginally or orally?
Jess (00:24:30): Vaginal, yeah. So slightly uncomfortable but otherwise fine. You just have to like, I think I had to, like, lie flat for, like, 45 minutes or something. They didn't want me to move or whatever. And then I was able to just kind of get up and do whatever, and I walked around, I, like, bounced on the ball. I tried, like, made sure I stay hydrated and—you're not supposed to eat, but, like, I snuck food when the nurses weren't in there.
Lisa (00:24:52): Yay! You know I like hearing that.
Jess (00:24:56): I did. Like, we packed, like, a whole bag full of food and snacks. Like, I had made, like, miso soup and, like, all these things. I was like, "I don't want eat jello. I don't want Gatorade." Like, I just, you know, like, I want my own, I wanted to feel like I was at home, so I wanted to, like, have my own snacks there. So that was helpful. I probably, I definitely overpacked for the hospital. I will admit it.
Lisa (00:25:16): Better to be over-packed—right?—than under-.
Jess (00:25:19): Yeah, I think so. I mean it was just funny because when you go in for an induction, it's almost like you're checking into a hotel. Like, you get there and you're like, "Hi, I'm here to have a baby." And then they, like, show you to a room. So it's kind of, like, this weird—it was, like, not what I anticipated as, like, what the birth experience would be. So I kind of felt, like, really weird going in and, like, checking into the hospital, because it was just not what I imagined that I would ever be doing. Like, I had this vision of, like, already being in labor when I got there, you know, and that's not what happened. So having, you know, an extra two weeks after my due date to, like, think about what to pack, I just, like, over-packed. Like, I think I actually was, like, better off when I packed the first time.
Jess (00:25:58): And then when I, like, repacked, I just, like, packed too much stuff. It was not, it was not good for me to have additional time to think about what I wanted to bring.
Lisa (00:26:05): That makes sense.
Jess (00:26:09): Yeah. So yeah, so round of Cytotec. That got me to, like, one centimeter, one full centimeter, and then we decided to do a Foley balloon, which was my, like, next preferred thing regardless of, like, what they suggested. Like, that's what I was hoping for, because that's, like, a less medical thing. There's no, like, drugs or anything involved. I was kind of terrified of Pitocin, especially because I really, like, wanted to try for a natural birth as much as I could. And I had the feeling that I wouldn't be able to with Pitocin. And so I was like, you know, trying to stay away from that. So I was, like, really hoping that I would, like, go into labor and not need it. But the Foley balloon, I actually started to feel contractions, which was actually kind of exciting at the time. So I was like, "Oh, it's finally happening!" I was finally, like, kind of in labor.
Lisa (00:26:59): When they inserted the Foley balloon, how was that for you? Was it painful? Was it medium? Was it not?
Jess (00:27:05): I would definitely say it's not comfortable.
Lisa (00:27:10): I'm sure.
Jess (00:27:10): I don't know if it was necessarily painful. It's, like, there's a lot of discomfort at first, but then kind of, like, once they're done doing that, you're kind of like, "Oh, okay. Like, I'm fine now." But yeah, I would say for, like, maybe, like, 20 seconds there's, like, some discomfort happening there. But yeah, I was able to feel the contractions for the first time, which was great. Because obviously, like, I had been hooked up to the monitor for, you know, since I had checked in and, like, I kept seeing contractions, you know, like, on the monitor, but I wasn't feeling anything. And so it was kind of exciting to, like, actually feel contractions. Oh, one note. I was able to get a wireless monitor at NYU which was, like, a huge game changer because I could walk around the room, I could be on the ball and go to the bathroom. It was so, so nice to have that.
Lisa (00:27:55): NYU is one of the only hospitals currently in New York City that I know of that says they have wireless and actually does. They actually do use them. So that is a great benefit if you have to be on continuous such as with your case in an induction.
Jess (00:28:11): Yeah.
Lisa (00:28:12): Nice.
Jess (00:28:13): I mean the funny thing, like, the tip that I'll give people is that, like, they really, really don't want to use the wireless monitor. I'm not sure why. The thing that I was getting from them was that it doesn't work as well, or they don't trust it or whatever.
Lisa (00:28:26): Yeah. A lot of nurses have that opinion.
Jess (00:28:29): But so it was—it took a lot of poking and prodding from our doula to, like, get me the wireless monitor. And they actually brought, like, two different ones and they had to, like, reposition it several times. So it was like, they really don't like it, they don't want to do it. So if it's something that you feel very strongly about, you really have to advocate for yourself to get it because otherwise you just won't. So I was just really, really thankful that we were able to get one.
Lisa (00:28:53): Hmm. Thank you for pointing that out. That's a great point.
Jess (00:28:56): But yeah, the Foley balloon actually was kind of like—once I started feeling contractions, I think that actually, like, got me—like, my adrenaline started pumping and I was like, "Okay, great. This is happening." Obviously contractions aren't fun in any way, but I felt like—they were obviously early labor contractions so they weren't too bad and I was able to kind of, like, get through them, and so I was actually feeling pretty confident at that point. I was like, "Okay, I can—I think I can do this." Like, "I can get through these contractions," like, I can, I'm on the ball and changing positions. I'm walking around, like, "This feels great." Or, doesn't feel great, but, like, overall feeling good about what's happening in my body and when the Foley balloon came out I was four centimeters dilated. So I was kind of like—felt like that was, like, a huge accomplishment for me.
Jess (00:29:38): But again, like, once they had taken the Foley balloon out, I stopped feeling contractions again. I was a little upset. I was like, "Ugh." I was like, "I know what the next step is. It's Pitocin, like, that's what they're going to give me." And so I was, like, a little sad, like, trying to mentally prepare myself, like, "Okay, this is happening. Like, I just need to get on board. Like, this is the only other option." And my healthcare provider actually really surprised me when she was—during the cervical exam she said, "Oh, you know what? Your water's really bulging. Why don't we break it and see if that helps?" And I was like, "Yes, that sounds great. Let's please do that." So I was really, really happy to hear her say that. I had two different providers during the induction. So, like, I had one when I checked in and then one when I actually delivered. So this was the first time I saw the doctor who would actually deliver. And so I was, like, really happy that she said that. And I was like, "Oh this is great. Like, maybe this'll work." And boy did it work. Like, it definitely, like, I definitely had read things about, like, once your water breaks, like, your contractions are, like, significantly worse. But it did not prepare me for how much worse they would be. I was like, "Wow! This is much different than the early labor contractions. Like, this is just a whole different ballgame." And yeah, that was when sh** got real, like, very quickly.
Lisa (00:30:58): Yeah, it can do that for sure.
Jess (00:31:01): But yeah, it was definitely one of those where, like, "I'm not feeling contractions at all," and then suddenly like, "Oh my God! There they are!" So yeah, that was—I remember that moment just because, it's, like, burned into my brain.
Lisa (00:31:15): Yeah. Right. And so it must have been a fairly large gush when they broke it?
Jess (00:31:20): Yeah.
Lisa (00:31:20): Because if you're losing a lot of that cushion, you're much more likely to have a sudden escalation in the sensations,
Jess (00:31:28): Yeah, it was, it was much bigger than I anticipated. I was, like, kind of shocked, honestly.
Lisa (00:31:34): There goes that gradual buildup.
Jess (00:31:39): Yup, exactly. Yeah. So I think that is officially active labor for me. This is kind of where my memory gets a little fuzzy, which I think a lot of people say. When you go into active labor, you kind of stop. Time doesn't mean anything anymore. You're just kind of trying to get through the next contraction.
Lisa (00:31:56): So true.
Jess (00:31:56): That was definitely the case for me. Rich might be able to shed some light more on this particular...
Lisa (00:32:03): That's what I was hoping. As I was reviewing, I was reading the blog post of your birth story and I was thinking, "Oh, hopefully Rich will be there and he can be our brain for us."
Jess (00:32:14): Hey, baby.
Rich (00:32:16): Sorry, we gave up on nap time.
Jess (00:32:16): We're giving up on nap time.
Lisa (00:32:19): Some days that's how it goes.
Jess (00:32:24): [inaudible]
Rich (00:32:23): Let's go to the kitchen.
Jess (00:32:24): Okay. We'll go back to the kitchen. We were hoping you could shed some light on how the next few hours went. Because I don't have a lot of—I don't remember much.
Rich (00:32:37): Yeah, I mean it seemed, it seemed like it was pretty—everything that I was seeing and was being told made me feel as if things were going pretty well. And I overheard Jess say that it seemed like the way Tia put it was: there is real world time and then there's active labor time. And in active labor time you're going to blink and six hours go by. And that's—as an observer, and supporter, that's kind of what it felt like. A contraction would come and Jess would—she was managing the contractions really well, which made me feel a little, you know, made me feel less worse about putting her through all that, as the father of the child. It made me feel confident that things were going well. And then at some point at, like, three or four in the morning, all hell sort of broke loose.
Jess (00:33:27): Yeah. I do also remember a lot of like—I didn't really lay down or sit down or, like, do anything in labor which can—like, as you know, can be really good for progressing labor. Gravity's really helpful. And so, but also what I didn't realize is that I wouldn't want to sit down or lay down or anything. Like, whenever the doctor came in to do a cervical check was actually, like, getting onto the bed from standing up was, like, the hardest thing I think I've ever had to do in my whole life. Like, I was just like, I was like, "No, can I just stand, please? Like, don't make me lay down. Don't make me sit down. Don't make me do anything." We did a lot of like, I was, like, hanging on Rich or, like, on the ball or on all fours, like, a lot of that, because it's just too uncomfortable to do anything else. Like, when you feel all of that in your body, it's just, like, I couldn't imagine doing anything else. And I think actually that was part of why—we'll get to this later—why I, like, ended up just being so, so tired. Because I hadn't really sat down in, like, 12 hours or something, which was probably not, like, the best option either. You know? Like, I probably should have been more willing to, like, sit down and take a break when Tia or Rich said to, because I think it would've helped me feel less—what's the word I'm looking for?—feel less just, like, done by the time...
Jess (00:34:46): Sure. Yeah. Yeah. There is this challenging need to balance activity with rest so that yes, you're promoting progress, but you're also conserving energy so that you can have that energy. But it's hard when everything in your body is telling you "Stand up!" Like, you know, and you just kind of have to go with that, to a good extent. Now when did—I think I missed—when did Tia come to join you?
Jess (00:35:11): She came, I guess it was shortly after we had checked into the hospital. So it was I think right after I got the Cytotec. So she was there pretty early on. And I actually was surprised. I thought maybe she was going to come and then maybe leave for a while and come back.
Lisa (00:35:25): Yeah. That's what a lot of doulas do.
Jess (00:35:27): Yeah. And so then she kind of, like, got comfortable and I was, like, "Are you staying?" And she was like, "Yeah, I'm staying!" And it was a good thing that she did, because that was, like—we really needed her not that long after. So I was like, "Oh good thing you didn't go home. Because you would have had to come right back." So yeah, she was there the whole time.
Lisa (00:35:46): So after they artificially ruptured your membranes, and things really got intense, you said you were hanging on Rich and then you were on the ball, and what other things did you find yourself doing?
Jess (00:35:57): Yeah, it was definitely, like—I'm thinking again from what I can remember—it was a lot of just, like, movement, and I think there's a lot of, like, sounds and things, like, groaning and moaning. I kind of felt like a cow a little bit. Like, I felt like I was, you know, a cow in a pasture from what I sounded like. Tia would help us by counting, which helped for a little while and then kind of, like, stopped helping towards the end because contractions started kind of coming on top of each other. And so then it was kind of, like, upsetting to feel like the contraction should be over, but it was actually just getting worse.
Lisa (00:36:37): It's drawing attention to it, it sounds like.
Jess (00:36:38): Yeah, definitely. The counting was really helpful at the beginning, for sure. And then towards the end it was kind of like, "Nope, counting doesn't matter anymore. Nope, no more counting."
Lisa (00:36:48): Do you happen to remember—I'm just curious, was it a certain pattern, like, counting up to a certain number and then down? Or only up? Or only down? Or...
Jess (00:36:55): Just up and down, like, with the contraction, which I think was really, really helpful because then it kind of like— once I could identify when I'd reached a peak, and then it was kind of, like, mentally you can say, "Okay," I'm like, like, "the hard part is over. Like, now it's just coming down." So that was really helpful.
Lisa (00:37:13): I just wanted to ask you, Rich, what was the dynamic between you and Tia, the doula?
Rich (00:37:18): She was great in that she didn't—she took charge, in that she told me what we were going to do to support Jess, but in most instances she had me do the thing. She didn't just kind of push me out of the way and say that it was her show. She was just kind of like—the way she put it when we met her was that she wanted to be our tour guide through labor and delivery. And that's exactly what she was. And so she would show me, you know, once or twice what we were going to do. And then she got out of the way and coached me through supporting Jess, which I thought was great. Because I knew I didn't have any control over the situation, but being as involved as I was was helpful because I knew I at least wasn't just sitting there and watching this happen. So being an active participant in it was great, and it was great that Tia was a believer in that and didn't just say, "I'm the doula. I know better. I can get her through this. Get out of the way."
Lisa (00:38:20): That's great. And that's such something I'm so glad you're pointing out, because a lot of partners, when there's resistance toward hiring a doula, like, when a pregnant parent is interested in hiring one and the partner doesn't want to, sometimes it's because they're concerned they're going to be replaced or feel unnecessary or, you know, dispensable. And it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, it usually isn't that way. It shouldn't be if you find the right fit for you with a doula, finding not just the right fit for the pregnant person but for the partner, too, is so important, to be sure that you all are going to have a really good working relationship. And it sounds like in your prenatals you guys probably—I'm guessing—discussed that, and, like, what did you guys want, and that she wanted to fit in like a puzzle piece whatever that looked like for you. Right?
Jess (00:39:09): Yeah. I think I told Lisa this earlier, but maybe you can speak to it now that you're here, is that, like, it was within the first, maybe, like, five minutes of talking to Tia that we were both just like—we both just looked at each other and we were like, "This is it. This is the person. Like, we don't even need to talk to anyone else. We had two other interviews scheduled that we did do."
Rich (00:39:26): We liked the people we had met. And then when we met Tia we said, "Oh, this is..."
Jess (00:39:30): "Oh no, this is it."
Rich (00:39:32): But at the same time I could see how some people would prefer something else. You know, we wanted someone who was very thorough and detail-oriented and over-researched, because that's what we were. Someone who could sort of match that and also give us checks every now and again when we thought we knew something and then actually it was either incomplete or wrong. But I could, you know—I think that the interview process was really important because, like you said, I don't think we really understood how important it was for us to, you know, make sure that I was a participant and wasn't getting pushed out of the way. And if that's what a partner wants, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That's just not what we wanted. So yeah, it was, I would encourage partners to—if that's a concern—to, one, acknowledge it because it's okay. And two, if that is, you know, once you acknowledge it, it's okay to ask that during the interview. I mean, Jess was really great and understanding that the interview process was not—well, I mean it was, like, 95% for you and there was, like, 5% where she wanted to make sure that I felt comfortable with whoever we went with, too.
Jess (00:40:42): It was more than 5%
Rich (00:40:42): 5 to 15%. Somewhere in that range. I mean, in my head it was—I was, like, a secondary concern, but yeah, Jess was really great and you know, she would check in and say, "Oh, do you feel good about this one? What are your concerns?" Yeah. So if, you know, either way for partners—be as involved or not as you want, beginning with the interview process, if you're considering a doula.
Lisa (00:41:05): Yeah, yeah, yeah. The communication for the couple, first of figuring out what does each of you want? What does that look like? And hopefully they're compatible. And then seeking out a doula who will support exactly what those preferences are. Yeah. Okay. Well where do you want to go from here?
Jess (00:41:22): So I guess I don't know how many hours had passed at this point.
Rich (00:41:26): I would say it had been...once they broke your water—I'm guessing—I think it was five to six hours of labor after that. It was about three or four in the morning when Tia actually thought we were in transition.
Jess (00:41:44): Yeah, I had—so you had mentioned this in your course. So we were, like, prepared that, like, vomiting during labor was very normal. And so I, like, knew that would probably happen. I wasn't prepared for, like, how much I would vomit during, like—it was, like, it started to be, like, almost every contraction. And then the nurse was, like, starting to be like, "I think I'm gonna have to hook her up to fluids," because she was worried I was going to be dehydrated. And so, like, it was just, like, this whole thing where I was, like, very, like, I couldn't stop but I, but it was, like, upsetting how often it was happening. Like, the nurse would, like, take the bucket away, and then I would be like, "No, bring it back. Don't take it away. It's not—I'm not done yet."
Rich (00:42:24): At one point, we tried to replenish some of the calories with one of my energy gels from a marathon I had just run. So we had a few of those in our bag. And she couldn't even keep one of those downs. So we were—things got intense pretty quickly. At one point—it was probably 3:30 or 4 in the morning when Tia...
Jess (00:42:46): I was feeling the urge to bear down really strongly, and I was shivering a lot, and I had been vomiting. And so Tia was like, "Okay, you might be in transition. Like, I'm going to call the nurse and like, let's figure out what's going on here."
Rich (00:42:59): It sounded consistent with what we had learned in your class.
Lisa (00:43:00): It does sound like transition. Yeah.
Jess (00:43:03): And so the doctor came in and did a check and I was six centimeters dilated.
Lisa (00:43:08): Oh.
Jess (00:43:10): And that was, like, very deflating.
Lisa (00:43:12): I'm sure.
Jess (00:43:13): So I was like, "Oh." And I tried to like, you know, I kept trying to think in my head like, I know that, you know, six centimeters—it's all an estimate, and you know, it's just a snapshot. Like, you know, it's not consistent. Like, it doesn't mean that I'm going to be in labor for another, like, six hours before I'm eight centimeters dilated. You know, like, all those things are true. But, like, in the moment I just remember feeling so, like, I felt like I had put really, like, all of my energy and I was only six centimeters dilated and I couldn't imagine how I was going to get to ten.
Lisa (00:43:44): Sure. Was there anybody looking at the position of the baby?
Jess (00:43:50): They had checked it right when we checked into the hospital.
Rich (00:43:53): That was never really a concern.
Jess (00:43:55): Because we had gone in for prenatal checks, like, every day almost, leading up to the induction. The baby had been in position that whole time.
Lisa (00:44:08): Well, when you say that, do you mean head down? Just head down or actually with the back out?
Jess (00:44:13): Like on the left side a little bit.
Lisa (00:44:16): With the back out?
Jess (00:44:17): Yeah, with the back out.
Lisa (00:44:19): Ideal.
Jess (00:44:19): Yeah. Which—that's what we wanted and, like, I don't think that changed the whole time we were in labor. At least if it did, I didn't—no one noticed that it changed.
Lisa (00:44:26): Yeah. The only reason I'm bringing that up is sometimes the premature urge to push and, like, signs that it seems like you're going into pushing can be a sign of a baby being back—with the back to mom's back—posterior. So I was just like, "Oh, maybe...I wonder if that's what was going on."
Jess (00:44:42): Yeah, it was not—I actually, I did another resource that you say in your class, but, like, I had also researched before was the Spinning Babies exercises and classes, which was, like, amazing. And I'm like—we were really lucky we didn't have an issue with the baby's positioning. Like, there was not a lot of pressure to, like, try to get baby to turn using any of those exercises. But I was like—I did them kind of, like, from, like, 20 weeks on, I was, like, very regimented about doing those exercises. Because I'm over-prepared and over-researched.
Lisa (00:45:15): You never know how that could have helped, you know?
Jess (00:45:18): Exactly. Like, maybe that's why it was good, and maybe it didn't matter at all. We'll never know.
Lisa (00:45:22): Who knows?
Jess (00:45:24): But yeah, so they checked and I was 6 centimeters. I think, like, I was feeling so, so tired at that point. I just remember I hadn't sat down in maybe 12 hours, and I had thrown up so much, and I couldn't keep liquids down. I was shivering and I just felt like that was kind of the point where I was like, "You know what?" I was like, "I think it's okay for me to get an epidural now. Like, this is the point where I feel confident that I did what I think I could do and now I feel, like, I need some help to be able to do it." Tia was concerned that I couldn't—because we kept trying to go, after that, and I remember, like, she kept coaching me and she was like, "Don't bear down. Don't bear down." And I, like, physically could not stop the urge to bear down.
Jess (00:46:05): And so she was concerned that we were going to cause the cervix to be inflamed, and then that, you know, is a whole other set of problems. And so she was like, she was like, "I do have concerns." She was like, "If you can't stop bearing down," she's like, "this is going to be a problem." And you know, Rich was, like, very supportive and he was like, "If you need to tap out," he's like, "you should tap out. Like, if this is your decision." And to Rich's credit and Tia, they were both like, "It's totally up to you." They're like, "If you don't want to do it, you don't have to do it." They're like, "But you know, you know what the risk is, like, you decide." And I like, I remember telling Rich, like, "I want an epidural." And he goes, "Are you sure?" Because I was very adamant that I did not want one previously. He goes, "Are you sure?" And I was like, "Yes."
Rich (00:46:46): You actually said, "Get the doctor in here this instant." We still weren't sure, because leading up to the birth, Tia suggested having a safe word that Jess could use to tap out, and Jess didn't even want that as an option. She was so adamant on doing this naturally that she said, "No, I don't even want to have that in the back of my mind, so I don't want a safeword." So for a couple of minutes, Tia and I kind of looked at each other and said, "Is she sure, or...
Lisa (00:47:13): "What do we do?"
Rich (00:47:13): "What do we do? We're not 100% sure." And then Tia and I kind of looked at each other and said, "Yeah, let's go. Let's go get the anesthesiologist." Who, as it turned out, was in the middle of a surgery. So there was another woman having an experience. So, of course I wasn't going to get angry or annoyed with what I had a feeling was happening, but I didn't know how to go back into the room and tell Jess she had to wait a few minutes.
Lisa (00:47:37): Right. Because she'll be like, "No!"
Rich (00:47:39): Yeah. So I kinda grabbed Tia and said, "Hey the anesthesiologists are tied up right now." And Tia knew what was going on. So we both agreed to maybe just not tell Jess for a minute.
Jess (00:47:54): They didn't. They didn't tell me. That was a really good call. They were like, "He's on his way."
Rich (00:47:59): "They're coming."
Jess (00:47:59): And I was like, "Okay. Like, I'm gonna focus on getting through this contraction." So it didn't actually feel like that long to me because I didn't know what was going on.
Lisa (00:48:05): Oh good. That was such a good call, Rich. Way to go!
Rich (00:48:12): Another hat tip to Tia there on that one. Because I might have been like, "Oh my gosh, they're in surgery. You're gonna have to wait." Because that's how I am. If Jess is really over-prepared, I'm overly honest sometimes.
Lisa (00:48:26): So Tia's like, "Restrain yourself."
Rich (00:48:29): That's a funny transition into the epidural itself, because as Jess has been alluding–she doesn't remember doing this. Sorry, our little guy's tearing up our kitchen right now.
Lisa (00:48:43): Just give him some pots and some utensils and a box and he'll be fine.
Jess (00:48:47): [inaudible] You tell the story.
Rich (00:48:48): Yeah, so Jess doesn't remember this, I guess because she was in the middle of labor, and I don't blame her, but she was so well educated, I think thanks to your class and our experience with Tia, that when the anesthesiologist was kind of reading the waiver, or whatever they read to you before they do the procedure, Jess interrupted the doctor and said, "Could you please just do it? Because if you miss and it doesn't go in correctly, I'm this percent more likely for this thing to happen. And then I'm this percent more likely for a C-section, and so I need you to get it right the first time." So the doctor had to reassure her that, you know, "I've been an anesthesiologist for 25 years and I'm very confident we're going to get this right the first time." And of course they did, but Tia even looked at me and gave me this look, like, "How did she know that?"
Lisa (00:49:40): And how did she, how was she in that head space in that moment? Like, with all of the hormones of labor clouding your...that's impressive.
Rich (00:49:52): Yeah. We don't know because Jess doesn't remember it. So we'll never know, I guess, why or how she got into the headspace of educating everyone in the room except for maybe the doctors on the risks of getting the epidural wrong. He got it right, and everything after that was great. But that's one of my lasting memories of the whole experience was Jess spitting out two or three facts. Yeah. I'll never forget that.
Jess (00:50:19): It worked. He got it right on the first try.
Rich (00:50:25): He did.
Lisa (00:50:25): Rich, were you in the room for the administration of it?
Rich (00:50:27): I was.
Lisa (00:50:28): Did Tia leave?
Rich (00:50:30): She stepped out. The doctor actually suggested that I stay so Jess could focus on me while they stuck the needle in, which I think was helpful.
Jess (00:50:39): Yeah.
Lisa (00:50:39): Good.
Jess (00:50:40): Yeah, I was like, I was very nervous because I was at the point where I wasn't sure that I could be still. I think most women probably feel that way when they're getting an epidural.
Rich (00:50:49): I think that's where the staff came in.
Jess (00:50:50): I was definitely very, like, nervous that they could possibly miss because I was moving. But also part of the reason–like, the other thing about getting an epidural, that I was very concerned about going in, was that it could prolong pushing. And so we'll get into that later. But, like, that was definitely part of the reason why I was very anti-epidural, was that I didn't want to be pushing for three hours.
Lisa (00:51:15): Sure. And do either of you remember anything about the step-by-step administration of it? Anything to note?
Rich (00:51:24): It was faster than I thought it would be.
Jess (00:51:24): It was pretty fast. Well, because they–with the induction at least, and they probably do this in triage with other births, I'm not totally sure obviously, but–they have you, like, sign everything ahead of time, and so you've already signed everything. They just kind of come in and give you, like, a really quick, like, recap basically of what they're going to do. And then they tell you to be still.
Lisa (00:51:44): And were you sitting on the edge of the bed curling into a C, or lying down on your side?
Jess (00:51:48): Sitting.
Rich (00:51:52): I just remember, I think we learned so much about it that it struck me that it was so fast.
Jess (00:51:58): Yeah. It didn't think like, I didn't think it would be that fast and it was, so that was great. It also took a while to have an effect, I felt like.
Rich (00:52:07): It calmed you down.
Jess (00:52:08): Yeah, I was calmed down, but I didn't feel, like, physically I didn't feel relief for, like, a while. For what felt like a while.
Rich (00:52:17): It was about a half hour.
Jess (00:52:18): There's probably, like, a half hour before, like, anything.
Lisa (00:52:22): That makes me wonder if they didn't do the combination spinal epidural, or what exactly...because usually, when they inject a little bit of low dose narcotic into the spinal space, that gives pretty quick partial relief at least. But, yeah.
Jess (00:52:39): I'm not sure. I think I definitely, like, the weird thing was that I felt a lot of–like, I still felt my contractions and I felt, like, I kind of felt everything kind of, like, in the back of my legs and, like, just kind of, like, my entire, like, lower part of my body would feel the contraction in a way that I hadn't before. So it also might've, maybe it was, like, a muscular, like, thing. The nurse at that point–who was the nurse that I didn't like–I had asked her because I was like, "I don't know if it's normal to be feeling this in my legs, the way I'm feeling it." And she was like, "Oh." She was like, "Well, you were bouncing on that ball for a long time. It was probably that." And so I was like, "Okay, we're done here."
Lisa (00:53:17): "Thanks for blaming me for what I'm feeling."
Jess (00:53:20): Trying to make me dumb for using a coping mechanism during birth. I don't think that's what it was, obviously, but I was not pleased that she had said that. And there was a point later when I was pushing that she kind of like–I don't think she read my birth plan before she came in because she wasn't the nurse that we checked in with. And so I think that she didn't read it, or just forgot it, because she has a million patients, which is understandable. But she was like–I made it very clear that I wanted everything to be very calm and I didn't want any yelling or coaching or, like, I just wanted it to be, like, a very calm atmosphere. And she was very much like, "Do it! Do it now! Push now!" And I was just like–I looked at Tia at that point, and I remember just, like, giving her this look.
Jess (00:53:54): And I think Tia said something to the effect of like, "Okay, we're going to keep everything calm here and, like, be quiet. Let her focus." So that was really, that was a great thing.
Lisa (00:54:04): How did the nurse take that?
Jess (00:54:06): Well she stopped. So I guess it was fine. I didn't like, I wasn't looking at her face, so I don't know if she resented it or something. But she did stop. So that was nice.
Lisa (00:54:14): Good. Objective achieved.,
Jess (00:54:16): Right. Yeah. After the epidural I started to feel some relief. Tia was like, "You need to try to sleep if you can." She's like, "Lay down and try to rest. You need to rest." And I was like, "Done. That sounds great. I'll do it". We had a, like, a peanut yoga ball thing available in the room. And so I would lie on my side with the ball, the peanut, between my legs to kind of, like, help open everything up. And then Tia would basically just kind of, like, come over and, like, help me turn to the other side every, like, half hour. So I just kind of rotated. So I was, like, kind of sleeping, kind of resting, like, but moving at the same time. Which was good. I do actually feel like I got some rest, which was nice. I think Rich actually also got to take a nap, which was good for him, because he had been up that whole night.
Rich (00:55:01): Eh, I got to attempt to take a nap.
Jess (00:55:03): He got to attempt to take a nap. I don't think he, like, slept really well, but he at least got to lie down.
Rich (00:55:07): I was still very anxious about everything.
Jess (00:55:07): Yeah. So we all got to, like, lie down and take a breath for a few hours.
Rich (00:55:13): I'm just curious, Rich do you have any–was it because it was uncomfortable or...?
Rich (00:55:20): I was just wound up and I was feeling anxious and guilty, and just couldn't, I couldn't wind down. So I'd kinda just lie there, and I might've passed out for 20 minutes, but I didn't really sleep.
Lisa (00:55:36): Wait, you just said you were feeling guilty? Is that what I heard? Why?
Rich (00:55:42): Yeah, I was just at that point, like, "Wow. I can't believe I did this to her. Look at this."
Lisa (00:55:47): Felt guilty for the whole thing! Aw, that's sweet. I was, like, "guilty"? I couldn't figure out why. I thought it was maybe a more specific thing.
Rich (00:55:59): No, no. In general. General guilt. Yeah.
Lisa (00:56:03): I'm sorry you couldn't sleep.
Rich (00:56:05): No, that's all right.
Jess (00:56:06): I think I woke up around like, I dunno, I don't know what time it was. A few hours later I, like, woke up. I wasn't really sleeping, but I was like, I do remember pretending like I was sleeping when the doctor would come in so that she wouldn't check me.
Lisa (00:56:20): That is a fantastic strategy!
Jess (00:56:23): Because I, like, didn't–I was like, I know I have an epidural now, but, like, I don't want to deal with it. I'm tired. I just want to rest. And so I remember her coming in and I, like, heard her and so I just, like, shut my eyes and, like, pretended to be asleep. And then she was like, "Okay, I'll let her rest." And I was like, "Yes! It worked!" And she left. So that was nice. She didn't, like, wake me up or anything. I think most doctors won't wake you up, so that's a strategy if you, like, really don't want a cervical exam, pretend to be sleeping. That apparently works. But yeah. So I eventually, like, woke up officially, like, I was feeling like, "Okay, I'm feeling better. I'm going to sit up." I really, really wanted to get out of bed, but at that point obviously couldn't because of the epidural. And that was definitely a bummer. I woke up and I was starving because, like, I had mentioned, I had thrown up a lot before. I had actually eaten in labor, but unfortunately it didn't really matter. So I woke up and I looked at Rich and I was like, "I want a bagel. Like, right now. All I want is a bagel." And he was like, "Are you sure you can have a bagel right now?" And I was like, "Just give me a bagel. I need a bagel." I was like, "Don't put any cream cheese on it. Like, I just want bread. Like, give me bread." I, like, needed carbs. So he ran across the street to get bagels and I had a bagel that I hid from the nurse when she would come in, and I would, like, hide it under my sheet. But I ate a bagel and it was amazing. Because I was–I can't even describe how hungry I was when I woke up. Like, I was just like, I woke up and I was like, "All I want is a bagel. Like, nothing else will satisfy me."
Lisa (00:57:54): Especially when you had emptied yourself of any nourishment.
Jess (00:57:57): Yeah, there was, like, nothing, there was nothing. So I was like, you know, like, I had, I still had some drinks and, like, some stuff and I was just like, I was like, "Bring me, like, whatever we have left in the food bag, like, I need to eat it all." So I ate, which was great, and kind of, like, rested for a little bit. And the doctor came back in, she checked me and she was like, "Are you ready to push?" And I was, like, "Sure!" Like, unexpectedly. So, and the funny thing was that, you know, you talked about this in your class a lot where it was like, a lot of times the doctors will, like, be there for the beginning of pushing and then they leave for a while and the nurse will be there, and then they come back. Especially with first time moms, it usually takes you awhile. This time she checked me and then you know, she kind of, like, went to the other side of the room and so I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to be pushing for a while. And I was kind of prepared for that with the epidural. I was like, "Okay, understandable." Like, when you have an epidural you tend to push for longer than when you don't have an epidural. So I was, like, mentally prepared for that and I was like, "Okay, it's gonna take a little bit longer. That's fine." I started pushing and then I see her, like, come right back. She had just, like, washed up and, like, put on, like, scrubs and I was like, "Oh, she's not leaving." I was like, "So either I'm actually, like, in a much better place than I thought I was, or she, like, doesn't have any other patients to go see or something."
Jess (00:59:05): It turns out I was like, he was, like, already at, like, a plus three at that point and so he was already like, well on his way out, which was great. I pushed for 30 minutes and he popped out. Which was great. So, like, I was, like, very surprised. So it was just kind of, I think, like, again, you know, you can plan for so much and there's so much you can't plan for. I was just kind of shocked at that point because I still hadn't had any Pitocin the whole time. Like, they broke my water and active labor started, so I didn't need it. So I had no Pitocin and I only pushed for 30 minutes with an epidural. So I felt like, even with what I thought was going to happen with an induction, like, none of that happened. So I was like, "Okay."
Lisa (00:59:45): Yep. You defeated the odds. Yeah. That's great.
Jess (00:59:50): Yeah. So he was born at, like, 11:00 AM or something like that, and it was really great. There were no complications. He came out. He was officially born at 42 weeks. We had gone in at 41 weeks, six days. He was born the next day.
Lisa (01:00:03): And do you remember, did you ever feel the urge to push?
Jess (01:00:05): When I had the epidural? No.
Lisa (01:00:08): Yeah.
Jess (01:00:09): No, I would say, like, I had to really tune into my body to know when the contraction was happening at that point. I'd gotten a tip from a friend who had had an induction, like, a couple of weeks before not to keep pushing your epidural thing that they give you, where you can just keep re-upping it. So once I had woken up that morning, I didn't use it because I was like, "Okay, I don't want to like–I want to make sure that I'm not pumping my body full of more stuff right now. Like I just want to try to be, you know, less so, so I can try to feel something. And I was able to, like, feel something. But I do feel like that is largely because of just, like, muscular awareness from being a dancer for so long. And also the amount of prenatal yoga that I did where we, like, practiced a lot of those things. So yeah. So I was able to–and the other thing, too, with the wireless monitor, coming back to that as well: for some reason, and maybe it's true that they don't work as well as the other monitors, but the doctor wasn't seeing the contractions when I was feeling them. So they were like, "Oh you want to push now?" And I was like, "I don't want to push now." And then, like, 10 seconds later I'd be like, "Now I want to push." And I would push.
Jess (01:01:19): And so there might've been some kind of, like, weird delay or something going on with the wireless monitor. I'm not sure. So maybe that's why they don't prefer them, possibly. But when I was feeling in contraction, that's not what was showing up on the screen. So I had to very much, like, just kind of tune into myself and, like, push when I wanted to push and I didn't let them tell me when to push. But it was definitely much, much harder with the epidural because you have to think really hard about, like, when your contraction is actually happening. But I was able to, that was really great. So it wasn't too much pushing. Do you have anything from pushing that you, like, remember?
Rich (01:01:52): Not really. It was just really fast. It was faster than we both thought it would even remotely be.
Jess (01:01:58): Yeah.
Rich (01:01:58): I do remember at one point the doctor asked if I wanted to see the top of the baby's head and I said, "What? Are you...? We've been doing this for–this is only, like, the second round of pushing. His little head was sticking out, and I remember thinking, "Oh wow, he's got a lot of hair!" Or, "The baby's got a lot of hair! " Because we didn't know the gender at that point. And the doctor said "It's not a lot of hair."
Jess (01:02:17): The doctor was like, that's not very much hair.
Lisa (01:02:19): So, Rich, did you touch the baby's head when he was crowning?
Rich (01:02:23): I didn't touch it. I just kinda...
Lisa (01:02:24): Just looked. Or did Jess?
Rich (01:02:30): I don't remember. I don't think she looked.
Lisa (01:02:32): Well, so, Rich, when he came out, when he was born, what were you thinking or feeling or doing?
Rich (01:02:41): I had a hard time believing he was real. I think because we had done so much preparation and taken your course and knew about the process, I forgot at the end of it that there'd be a baby. I thought I'd cry going into it. And then when he came out I was just kind of in shock. They were really good about skin-to-skin right away, so I saw him kind of just wailing on her chest and I just remember thinking like, "Whoa! This is a real person that we're about to bring home!" And that's all that I could conjure up in the moment. I didn't get emotional or–I was happy, but I just, I wasn't like any of the men in the video you showed us that were instantly in tears. I just kind of was like, "Whoa! Look at that!"
Lisa (01:03:22): Yeah, sure. There are so many healthy reactions. There's no right way to react to react. Rich, did they hand you the scissors to cut the cord at some point?
Rich (01:03:34): They did.
Lisa (01:03:34): And you did it? Or did you say, "No thanks."
Rich (01:03:38): I did, yeah. That was part of our birth plan.
Jess (01:03:38): Yeah, he also got to announce the gender.
Lisa (01:03:41): Oh, nice.
Jess (01:03:42): Yeah, we didn't know going in, so it's kind of, like, a big surprise. And so when he came out, Rich was able to be like, "It's a boy!" And I was like, "Oh my God, it's a boy!" You know? I would've been surprised either way. I think I would have had the same reaction regardless of the gender, but I was like, "It's a boy!"
Rich (01:03:57): We were actually rooting for a girl, because everyone that–just, even strangers would tell us, "Oh, the way she's carrying it looks like a boy." And we kind of just wanted all the people to be wrong.
Rich (01:04:08): Yeah. But they were all right, apparently. All the strangers on the subway were correct. Which is weird. But yeah. And we did skin-to-skin immediately. I remember that was great, but also I didn't really get to see his face. So when they, like, put him on my chest, I was kind of like, you know, hysterical, but also like, I was like, "What does he look like? Like, I don't know. I can't see him. Like, what does this child look like?" So I think, like, at one point I kept telling Rich, I was like, "Show him to me, like, let me see him," because I, like, didn't feel like I could, like, pick him up for some reason. I mean I could have. I just, like, was overwhelmed, I think, and didn't realize I could just, like, pick him up off my chest. But yeah. So I was like, "What does he look like?" And also very immediately all the nurses are like, "What's his name?" And I was like, "We don't have a name yet. Because we didn't know he was a boy until just now. So we do not have a name." So that was, like, a funny thing that I felt like, for the first thing for them to be asking was like, "What's the name?" I was like, "I feel unprepared for the first time ever in this process, because I do not have a name to tell you."
Lisa (01:05:15): And how long was it before you came up with his name?
Jess (01:05:20): I think it was, like, a couple hours, actually.
Lisa (01:05:22): Oh, okay. I thought you were going to say, you know, a day or two, or...
Jess (01:05:25): Yeah. Or Rich says that it was less than that. Maybe it was, like, an hour. Because we had, like, names, obviously. But we wanted to, like, see the baby and, like, you know, before we decided on names. I think it was, like, an hour or something after, because I didn't want to, like, tell people–my thing was I didn't want to text people and, like, tell them that the baby was here but not have a name to tell them. Because then that would be the next question. Like, "What's the name?" So I wanted to, like, have the name decided before people started asking.
Lisa (01:05:55): Sure. This is a question for both of you. Did you feel–at what point in time did you start to feel like, "This is my baby"? Was it in pregnancy? Was it, like, the moment of meeting him? Was it, like, days or weeks or months later, or was it a gradual thing?
Jess (01:06:11): I don't know. I think it was, like, for me at least, it was, like, as soon as I was pregnant. Like, I was, like, immediately, like, just bonded, I guess. I don't know, that sounds, like, silly.
Lisa (01:06:23): No it doesn't.
Jess (01:06:23): But I don't feel like I had that moment, because, like, by the time he was, like, born, I already felt like he was, like, real, like, he was mine. So I didn't, like, have another, you know, moment where I was like, "This is my child." I think I was, like, very immediately, like, "Try to take this child away from me and I will murder all of you."
Rich (01:06:49): Yeah. I think it wasn't that fast for me. I probably–that night after he was born, when we were in a shared recovery room and I decided...both babies were screaming and neither mother wanted to send them to the nursery. So I decided I was going to take him for a walk around the hall. So Jess could at least try to get some sleep. I was out there for two hours and I forgot my shoes. And we ended up walking, by my math, about two miles. Because they had a sign up in the wing that said every lap around the hall was about 0.1 miles. So I counted the laps and looked down at the baby and said, "Hey, bud, we just went on a two mile walk." And that's kinda when it felt real to me.
Lisa (01:07:43): I love that story. That's really sweet. And at NYU partners can stay overnight, right? Even in a shared room.
Rich (01:07:52): Yeah, it was interesting.
Jess (01:07:53): It was an interesting experience. Like, I mean, having a shared room, is a reality for, I think, most people in the city. So we knew that was going to be hard and we had asked for the private room, but we didn't get one. Yeah. I think, like, the couple that we were rooming with, they were, like, such nice, lovely people. This was their second baby, so they were a little more familiar with the whole process. And the husband came later, and he snored all night. Like, he slept through both babies screaming and he was snoring. And I was like, "Okay, so we have two babies screaming and one guy snoring, and like, how am I supposed to get any sleep?" So I remember being, like, very frustrated by that and I was like, "If you're just going to come here and sleep, like, you should've just stayed home."
Lisa (01:08:38): Especially if you snore,
Jess (01:08:40): Right. All partners should know if you're going to stay overnight, like, you should be there to help. Which seems like a given, but I guess it's not. So we actually only stayed one night in the hospital. We had to stay 24 hours and he was–since he was born at 11:00 AM we didn't have to stay a second night. And since we didn't have a private room, I wanted to get out of there as soon as possible. And they were, like, more than happy to get rid of us because they needed the room. So they were like, "Okay, we'll get you out of here today." So we left at, like, 4 or 5:00 PM the next day. We were out of there.
Lisa (01:09:13): And I think I didn't quite grasp...how many hours total was your labor?
Jess (01:09:20): It was about 20, right? Yeah. Yeah, from beginning to end. Like, but it didn't feel–I mean which, for an induction, as you know, is, like, fairly short, and the active labor part, I think, was about six hours or something. So it really didn't feel that long. It kind of felt like you, like, went in, like, we were there overnight, basically, and had the baby.
Lisa (01:09:42): Yeah. And I think the fact that you were so well-educated going into it, so informed, probably helped you just set up your expectations. Because a lot of people, if they didn't realize how long inductions can take, might feel like it felt like a lot longer than it would otherwise, if you just realized, "Okay, this is going to take a while."
Jess (01:10:05): Absolutely. I think for me, even, like, before knowing I was going to be induced, I kind of, like, had 24 hours in my head, because I was like, "I think I can do anything for, like, a day." So I was like, if you know, "If it goes past 24 hours, I think that'll be hard. But if I can keep it to 24 hours and under, I will feel like this is, like, an achievable thing."
Lisa (01:10:26): Do you want to share about early postpartum? Breastfeeding? Anything along those lines?
Lisa (01:10:31): Yeah, I definitely will. I think...what? Rich is laughing at me.
Rich (01:10:35): It was an adventure.
Jess (01:10:36): Yeah, it's a hard few weeks for sure. I think, like–we actually talked about this earlier in our call, like, the one thing that was on your list of things to buy that I bought and I think was, like, the best purchase I made was a Camelback water bottle. Having, like, the straw, I used it, like, throughout labor and then, like, used it throughout breastfeeding, and I'm still using it today, as we discovered on our call. Like, we're holding the same water bottle.
Lisa (01:11:03): Same color, too.
Jess (01:11:04): Same color and everything. We're twins. But yeah, that's just, that was just so important in labor but also in, like, with breastfeeding to, like, stay hydrated, and you're so thirsty and so hungry for, like, weeks after you have a baby. I think I like, I knew that and I just didn't really understand how hungry I would be. And so having, like, I literally had, like, two water bottles on either side of my nursing chair that I was using that were just refilled, like, constantly. So that was, like, having the, Camelback was definitely, like, a key, like, I will get that for any future pregnant friends. I have a gift, I'll be like, "This is kind of a weird gift, but trust me, you're going to use it." I think, like, postpartum, I mean I was, like–I feel very lucky. I had a very–all things considered–very straightforward birth. I had a few stitches, nothing too crazy.
Jess (01:11:52): I mean I still felt like I had been in a car wreck, but generally, like, very lucky coming out of birth. I definitely, like, that first week had baby blues, some serious baby blues. Like, I just, like, cried a lot. Hormones were, like, very, very hard to deal with and, like, I mentally–again, it's just different when you experience it. Like, I knew that this was a possibility, I knew that it was likely to feel that way. But I definitely didn't anticipate how hard it would be to, like, live through it. So I was really lucky. Like, my parents were both here for a week after he was born, so they were here a lot. They were, like, up with the baby in the middle of the night and up with me in the middle of the night. So, like, that was all very lucky. So in addition to having Rich, who was almost as tired as I was, because he had hadn't slept either, it was nice to have additional support outside of your partner.
Jess (01:12:41): So that was definitely important. Just, like, my mom came and, like, made a ton of food, which was amazing. Our church was really supportive and they, like, brought us a meal train. So we had meals for weeks and weeks afterwards, which was really amazing.
Lisa (01:12:58): Yay! I love to hear that.
Jess (01:12:59): Yeah, it was like, it's such a blessing. And like, also really great to, like, live in New York and be in, like, a diverse neighborhood, because we also just had, like, really great, like, ethnic food. Like, people would bring us like, "Oh, there's this, like, Peruvian chicken stew that like, you know, it's, like, traditional after birth," or, like, this thing or that thing. And I was like, "Wow, we have such amazing, like, friends and just amazing people that are, like, around to support us who also are just good cooks apparently." So, like, that was really key. So, like, the food.
Jess (01:13:29): I think, like, breastfeeding was actually a very difficult journey for us. It was–it started out pretty well. We did skin-to-skin, he latched right after birth. We breastfed in the hospital room. Then we did all the things that they tell you to do to promote breastfeeding. It seemed to be going okay. We were eating every two hours. I think it was, like, he was almost two weeks old where it got to the point where I was in so much pain and I, like, couldn't figure out why. And at that point, like, our doula had come by and she was a certified lactation consultant so she had, like, helped me with the latch a few days before. We just, like, weren't getting it and I couldn't really figure out why. And it got to the point where I was just, like, sobbing, like, every time I had to feed him. I was just, like, crying. Like, I, just didn't know what to do. I sent Rich on, like, a wild goose chase to, like, every Duane Reed in Queens to find nipple shields. I think he was at Duane Reed at, like, four in the morning at some point. So it was just very–it was very, very difficult. I had texted my doula at that point and she was like, "You know what?" She was like, "You need," she's like, "You need someone more than me." She's like, "You need to find, like, an IB CLC." And so she had sent us some recommendations, and we booked a home visit that day. We had a lactation consultant come by our apartment, like, 12 hours after we got on the website. It was, like, a 9:00 PM visit, which is, like, crazy. But, like, when you have a newborn it doesn't matter what time it is because you're up all the time anyway.
Jess (01:14:52): So that was really great. She came by, she was here for probably, like, three hours or something, just, like, helping us, like, through several different feeds to, like, diagnose the problem. We were lucky there was no, like, tongue tie or anything like that. He just wasn't latching well, and I, like, didn't know how to help him then. So it definitely took some practice after that, too. Like, we took a lot of videos while she was here so that I could, like, look back and remember, like, what she was doing to help him latch the right way.
Lisa (01:15:19): That's such a good idea that I haven't heard anybody mention before.
Jess (01:15:22): She actually recommended that to us and so Rich was taking videos while she was helping me get him to latch. And we, like, would watch those a lot. So that was really, really, really helpful. It also turned out, like, when she got here–and thank God she got here when she did–I was feeling like, I was a little, like, engorged, and I wasn't really sure. And she was like, "You know what?" She was, like, "This is mastitis." And I just, like, didn't even know what to do. And I felt a little bit like a failure. Because I knew it was really common, but I also was like, "How do I already have mastitis? Like, he's been here for 10 days. Like, this is crazy." So I definitely remember feeling, like, upset but also then, like, meeting a lot of other moms who had the same experience. So it's so much more common than I think people realize. And I think I was very lucky that the lactation consultant with here to, like, diagnose me pretty early on. So it didn't get too, too bad.
Jess (01:16:12): I was able to call my OB and they sent a prescription over. I didn't have to go in to see anyone, which was another blessing. Because like, yeah, going somewhere 10 days postpartum is, like, the worst in the whole world. So they just sent over a prescription to our pharmacy and I started on antibiotics immediately. So we luckily got through the mastitis pretty easily for the most part, you know, easier than I think some have. And he started feeding better. So that also obviously, like, helped relieve a lot of pain. So I think that breastfeeding has been a journey. We're still breastfeeding. He's weaned a little bit, which is nice for me. Going back to work and pumping was, like, also another hurdle that I did not anticipate being quite so hard. And I think a lot of working moms have that experience where you go back to work–and I actually have a really supportive work environment. Like, I have really great bosses. I had a place to pump. I had a place to store my milk that wasn't the general fridge. I had, like, my own little, like, fridge, which–so those are all, like, really great things. And it was still hard. So like, so for women who don't even have that support, I can't even imagine what that is like. But it's definitely been a journey and I'm glad we were able to do it. It's also, it's a lot more work than you anticipate.
Lisa (01:17:27): Isn't it? Yeah, very much so. And regarding the pumping, somebody recently told me, "When I was done pumping, I just wanted to throw my pump out the window and never see it again."
Jess (01:17:38): Yeah. I stopped pumping at work. So I'm not pumping at work anymore, and I left my pump at my desk because I don't even want to bring it to my house anymore. I'm like, "I don't want to see it ever again. I just want to pretend like it's not there.
Lisa (01:17:48): Yes.
Jess (01:17:49): I've got it under my desk. Like, I'm like, "I'm done."
Lisa (01:17:52): I've never met anybody who enjoys pumping. It's just sort of a necessity if you want your kid to continue getting breast milk and you need to be away from them.
Jess (01:18:00): Yeah.
Lisa (01:18:01): And how long did you take off for?
Jess (01:18:04): I had 16 weeks of leave.
Lisa (01:18:08): Oh wow. Nice.
Jess (01:18:09): It's a lot. And it's not normal. I'm very, very lucky.
Lisa (01:18:15): It should be. We should have much longer than even that. But for the U.S., that's really a lot.
Jess (01:18:20): Yeah, it's very generous. Like I said, I have a very supportive work environment and supportive bosses, so I was very, very lucky to be able to, like, transition. We actually–Rich and I staggered our leaves so we were both home for a few weeks and then he went back to work and then I went back to work. So if you can do it, if you can, as a mom, if you can go back to work and have your partner take time off at that point, if that's a possibility, I would recommend it. Because I think it made going back to work so much easier because I felt so, like, relieved and confident in the caretaker that my child was having. Obviously, like, nannies and daycares are also great, but I think, like, knowing that he was with his father was like, "Okay I can go to work, I can focus on what I need to focus on. I don't need to worry about how my child is adjusting to, like, a new caretaker."
Lisa (01:19:08): Oh yeah. Because that's its own piece of anxiety for most people. Because usually it's somebody new, unless it's a family member. Yeah. Oh that's great wisdom. Thanks. And did either of you take advantage of the New York paid family leave or did you have an employer that already gave you...?
Jess (01:19:24): We had an employer who gave us time off. We didn't have to.
Lisa (01:19:25): Both of you. Great. Nice.
Jess (01:19:29): It's very nice. We are very lucky.
Lisa (01:19:31): Yeah. Well anything else you'd like to share? Any reflections on this whole journey, the first year of your baby's life? Just any tips or wisdom, insights for expectant or new parents?
Jess (01:19:45): I think like, oh, I have one more resource I want to–can you find me the book that's on top of the thing over there? I have one more resource to share in a minute.
Lisa (01:19:54): Please. Great. That's great.
Jess (01:19:56): I personally–like, it might be obvious from, like, listening to me talk about all of this, but I think it's really, really important to be educated even if you...you don't need to research as much as I did, I don't think. But just, like, attending a birth class is really, really important. I don't know how people do it without birth class. I really don't, like, after having gone through it, because they don't really explain anything to you at the hospital. So I think, like, going to your birth class, having a doula, feeling like I was making choices about my birth versus being told what to do in my birth I think made a big difference.
Jess (01:20:30): So even though it went very differently from what I anticipated and I ended up getting an epidural, which I, like, swore I was never going to do, I feel good about it because I know it was my choice and I felt like, or I still feel like I made those decisions based on the knowledge that I had. And so I feel good about those decisions that I made instead of, like, they were last resorts or something like that. So just, like, being educated, hiring a doula. I think if I did it again, I would, like, maybe have a lactation consultant, like, already on-call. Instead of having to, like, find someone last minute. Because that was unexpected. I definitely felt like I thought I knew what I was doing because we had, like, gone over things in the hospital and other stuff, but it really wasn't until, like, that two week mark that breastfeeding suddenly got, like, much harder for some reason, which was strange.
Lisa (01:21:18): And that's so common. And I feel like where hospitals really need to improve is that anticipatory guidance of just saying, "Okay, in the next, you know, week or two, here are the things that are going to happen, and here are some troubleshooting strategies." Because almost everybody experiences that. It's, like, easy or easy-ish–not for everybody, but that's the tendency–in the hospital, just for, you know, until your milk comes in. And then the milk comes in and "Whoa!" everything changes.
Jess (01:21:47): Yeah, exactly. It's, yeah, it's just like, it's so amazing though, too. Like, it was just funny, like, going from two weeks in breastfeeding, feeling like I wasn't doing anything right and, like, things were bad. And, like, I, like, physically I felt bad. Like, I was still healing from birth and then, like, I had mastitis and I'm just remembering feeling like my body could not be, like, in a worse place at that point. But then, like, fast forward, like, literally, like, three weeks from that point, like, when he was, like, five or six weeks old. And, like, I remember, like, having coffee with one of my friends and being like, "I want another baby." And she was like, "Are you kidding me? You just had one!" And I was like, "I know, but they're so amazing and this experience has just been amazing. Like, I just want to do it again." And yeah, she thought I was crazy. Rich still thinks I'm crazy. But yeah, just, like, having that, like, immediate, like–all of that was hard, but, like, 100% worth it. Like, I wouldn't change a thing. Like, it's completely worth it to have him around.
Lisa (01:22:46): I did want to ask real quick: you were talking about the baby blues and how challenging that was. It sounded like it did not develop into clinical depression or other perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. And do you think that there was anything that contributed to it not getting worse?
Jess (01:23:04): Honestly it, like, having a support system, like, having my parents here, for sure. Like I said, like, Rich is amazing, obviously, and he was here the whole time, too, and he was here the whole time. But also I think having my parents here, having people that were, like, making food and just, like, making sure that, like, I could shower. And also just people, like, talking, having conversations that don't revolve around the baby and, like, realizing that, like, there are other things going on and, like, other people's lives keep moving even though you just had a baby. Because I think it can feel very isolating and feel like your whole life has just changed. But, like, no one else's has. So it's kinda good to, like, get out and realize everything else is still happening and, like, your life will go back to quote-unquote "normal." It won't ever go back to, like, "normal" before, but it'll go back to more normal, new normal.
Jess (01:23:58): And I think that's, like, kind of the theme of, like, the first year, too. It's just that everything is different every few weeks or few months and it's going to go back. It's going to get more and more normal because you're just going to adjust to it. But yeah, I think, like, having my parents here, for sure, like, having my mom here, like, making, like, my favorite foods. So things like that that just, like, I think made me feel like, "I can get through this." And yeah, I was lucky that it ended up just being something that I dealt with for, like, a week, versus, you know, a month or more. So yeah.
Lisa (01:24:34): Two other things. I know you wanted to show a book and then I wanted to ask Rich the same question if he had any tips or wisdom or reflections on the perspective of a father supporting you through the process and into parenthood and all that.
Jess (01:24:47): Hey babe?
Rich (01:24:51): [inaudible].
Jess (01:24:50): Okay, well come back, when you have a second. I'll share this book. So this book is called "The First 40 Days." I think maybe you recommended it in your class. I can't remember.
Lisa (01:24:59): Yeah, I do. I couldn't remember if I was recommending it back when you came to class or not, but I do routinely recommend–that's one of my top two postpartum books.
Jess (01:25:09): I think I actually heard about it at first when my–I had a friend who had a baby a couple of years before we did and she had this book and so when I had gone over to visit her a couple of weeks after she had the baby, she had the book, and I made her one of the recipes that was in it.
Lisa (01:25:23): I don't think we said the name of it, did we? "The First 40 Days."
Jess (01:25:26): So I like, so I think I might've had it before, you know, we were pregnant maybe. Like, I probably already had it because I was like, "This is a great book. I'm gonna keep it." But it kinda, I, like, read it in pregnancy and it just kind of highlights, like, how important it is to take care of yourself as a mother the first 40 days after having a baby. And then, like, as a benefit, there's a bunch of recipes in it that are all really, really delicious. So I actually still make some of the recipes that are in this book because they're that good, and we've made them for other friends that have babies and then we'll like, make them some of this stuff and bring it over. So it's really great. I recommend to anybody.
Lisa (01:26:07): Yes. I've always heard the book is great, but I've never made any of the recipes so it's so great to hear feedback that they're really delicious recipes.
Jess (01:26:14): Oh yeah. You definitely should make some of them. If you have the time, they're totally worth that. There are some good ones in there.
Lisa (01:26:21): Nice. Rich, I was just wondering if you had any reflections on this whole journey or any tips for expectant dads, partners...
Rich (01:26:32): I think if I could go back to the first few weeks–I thought I was being really helpful, and there were a lot of cases when I was just dropping the ball because I was tired and I thought that was okay. But I think Jess is pretty good about understanding it was an adjustment for me, too. But at the same time, I didn't understand how involved the partner needs to be in a lot of cases because there are just times when I just hadn't eaten and wasn't in either a mental capacity or physical capacity to even ask for food. And then I'd go into the pantry and realize we hadn't gone shopping so we didn't have food. And so it took me a couple of days to really get used to how prepared and how on my game I needed to be just to make sure that Jess would have lunch or be able to step away for a shower.
Rich (01:27:25): Because I was tired, but I hadn't given birth. So I was still physically able to run out and do things. And so, I mean I guess my, my tip for expectant fathers or new fathers would be to just be flexible and maybe roll with it even more than you think you need to, because something will come up, or you won't have as much food around, or you're not being as supportive as you need to be. And it's not because you're not trying, but it's just because it's a brand new thing for everyone, including you.
Lisa (01:27:54): Steep learning curve.
Rich (01:27:55): Yeah, there a steep learning curve. So it requires a bit of flexibility but also sort of an awareness of, you know, every minute and every hour something could be going on. So just be prepared to run out, like Jess said, at four in the morning for a random nipple guard or...we have a 24 hour grocery store, so, you know, a lot of times I'd run out at, like, 11 or midnight and get frozen foods or something quick because we didn't have anything. And that was already my fault. So yeah, just to just be flexible and you know, not say no to what might seem ridiculous. I think me learning to say no less, or not at all, especially in those first few weeks, was really helpful. You know, like, Jess didn't ask for anything crazy. So that was helpful. Hopefully just requests for food or a break or something like that. So I don't know, I found it to be helpful to not say no. And then of course I got to spend time with my kid when I said yes to things like that.
Lisa (01:28:57): Mm. Thank you. Thanks so much for sharing that.
Rich (01:29:00): Sure.
Lisa (01:29:00): Good words. All right, well thank you so much, Jess and Rich, for meeting up today and sharing all these great details. It's always fun to hear it. It's so different than reading it. And, you know, of course we got more, a lot more details than in the written story, so I've loved hearing it all.
Rich (01:29:21): Thanks for having us.
Jess (01:29:21): Thank you.
Lisa (01:29:21): Thanks guys. Take care. Bye.
Lisa (01:29:25): Thanks for listening to this long but great story! I'm only going to comment on a couple of very quick things today: the epidural rollover and mastitis. I’ll talk about the baby blues as compared to more serious perinatal mood and anxiety disorders in next week's episode. For anyone who gets the epidural, it's very important to realize that you shouldn't stay on one side in the bed for more than 30 minutes. This is because the medication will run down to the bottom leg and heavily numb it if you lie on one side for longer -- that is, numb it way more heavily than anyone would ever want. So, one way partners can provide helpful support with an epidural is to set a timer and have her do what we call the “epidural rollover” every 30 minutes. It’s also just a guiding principle for a healthy birth to stay as active in the bed as possible to help labor continue to progress and change positions every 30-45 minutes, even if not lying on your side. Also, Jess mentioned having mastitis. Mastitis is a breast infection that sometimes develops during breastfeeding and most commonly in the first few weeks. My go-to breastfeeding website, KellyMom.com, reports that among western women, the rate of occurrence is around 20%. Symptoms are often similar to the flu. Someone with mastitis experience a fever, chills, body aches, malaise, but also pain in usually just one breast sometimes with redness. Sometimes it can start with a plugged milk duct, but not always. Sometimes it’s a sign that rest needs to be a higher priority, and if it persists for more than a day or so, antibiotics may be needed. Another important reason to build in as much support as you can in the first few weeks so that you can rest. The teaser for next week's episode is a very different perspective of another dad on meeting his daughter. Here ya go!
Speaker (01:31:14): It didn't feel like an introduction. It felt like a reunion. I don't know how to describe it. It felt like a— I don't—that's the only way I can describe it. I felt...this little spirit just felt so familiar to me, and I immediately bonded with her. I mean, when Lisa left her with me for the first time, she went to the bathroom, came back and I'm just weeping. You just weep and you can't explain why. It's such a, it's such a profoundly personal thing when you start immediately bonding with your baby.
Lisa (01:31:52): The thought I'd like for you to spend some time reflecting on this week is: what will it be like to meet my baby at birth, and how can I connect with my baby now? Thanks so so much for tuning into the Birth Matters Podcast. Have a wonderful week and be well.---END---