A few days before celebrating their daughter’s first birthday, Nissa & Brit share the story of an unexpectedly quick first labor with the support of a doula. You'll hear about how a preexisting condition Nissa has, Crohn's Disease, caused confusion when she actually went into labor. She shares the emotional challenges of a cancer diagnosis her mom got in the middle of Nissa’s pregnancy and mentions a therapeutic method that was helpful to her. She details how she thinks her background and training in acting was helpful in giving birth, while Brit explains how being a parent has helped him become a better, more present professional actor. They'll describe what it was like to meet their daughter for the first time, go through some of the ways they worked together as a team in the early weeks, and will point out strengths they've seen in each other as they've become parents.

Episode Topics:

Discussing their daughter’s 1st year of life, how they’ll celebrate Vienna’s 1st birthday
Ways they prepared for birth -- joining an online, local parent group, Havening technique, hiring birth doula, taking birth classes prenatal yoga
Reflecting a bit about their daughter’s 1st year on the week of her first birthday
Nissa thinks she’s having a Crohn’s flare-up, but it’s labor
Moving into cavewoman mode, lots of vocalization
They call doula, head to hospital in Uber
Getting epidural at 9cm, getting more antibiotics
Baby born in what felt like no time with very brief pushing stage
What the moment of meeting baby felt like for each of them
Early teamwork in baby care
Reflections on what 1 strength they’ve loved seeing in each other as they have become parents
Other final insights on the transition into parenthood

Resources:

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Transcript

Lisa (00:00:00): You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 31.

Nissa (00:00:03): Such an out of body experience while being in the body at the same time. And I remember in class you had said that ultimately, like, you're really working together. It's not just me, it's me and the baby and that for me is what is so moving—that she was so ready to be in this world and her spirit now is the same. She's so determined and wants to figure it out yesterday, and in some ways is incredibly curious and curious to the point where you could see how...

Brit (00:00:38): You can see her working things out. You can see her thinking.

Nissa (00:00:41): You'd think, "Oh she did come into the world with her own agenda." I felt like a cave woman with this other cave baby who was like just pounding their way into the world.

Lisa (00:01:05): Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on the show is not intended as medical advice, or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. Please know that we welcome your feedback on the show. Let us know what you like, what you don't like, and what you'd like to hear or learn in future episodes. Reach out to us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter @birthmattersNYC, or you can email us at podcast@birthmattersnyc.com.

Lisa (00:01:52): A few days before celebrating their daughter’s first birthday, Nissa and Brit share the story of an unexpectedly quick first labor with the support of a doula. You'll hear about how a preexisting condition Nissa has, Crohn's Disease, caused confusion when she actually went into labor. She shares the emotional challenges of a cancer diagnosis her mom got in the middle of Nissa’s pregnancy and mentions a therapeutic method that was helpful to her. She details how she thinks her background and training in acting was helpful in giving birth, while Brit explains how being a parent has helped him become a better, more present professional actor. They'll describe what it was like to meet their daughter for the first time, go through some of the ways they worked together as a team in the early weeks, and will point out strengths they've seen in each other as they've become parents.

Lisa (00:02:39): Before we jump into the story, I want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by Birth Matters NYC's Childbirth Education classes. If you live in the New York city area, the best way to build your confidence and prep for an amazing birth and entry into parenthood and to connect with other expectant parents to build your very important support system is to attend group childbirth education classes. You'll spend quality time with your labor support partner in our comfy Astoria living room classroom as you prepare for not only birth but also for your best possible postpartum recovery and wellness as well as early parenting with classes on breastfeeding and newborn care techniques. Classes often book up about one to two months in advance, so be sure to grab your spot on the early side. For more information and to sign up visit birthmattersnyc.com. Okay. Without further ado, let's jump in.

Lisa (00:03:32): Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have Nissa and Brit with me to share their baby's, their firstborn's birth story. Welcome you guys.

Brit (00:03:41): Hey, thanks for having us.

Nissa (00:03:42): Hi, nice to see you.

Lisa (00:03:43): I'm so happy to see you and hear you. And you were just telling me that you're about to have your baby's first birthday, right?

Nissa (00:03:50): Yes. Our little one, Vienna, turns one on Friday in just a few short days.

Lisa (00:03:58): Oh my goodness.

Brit (00:04:00): Been thumbing through our iPhones picking out videos and it's just so mind blowing, seeing who she is now and then going back and seeing those videos and it's like a whole other baby.

Nissa (00:04:12): This morning I was crying and I was like, "I feel so sad." And I realized that it's like she changes so often that you're sort of like, this other person has left you. Like this tiny infant you had and now she's this wonderful, curious, aware, spirited, absolutely lovely child. But you start to feel like there's like a loss of that other person, which is really strange and beautiful at the same time.

Brit (00:04:42): Yeah. Profound.

Lisa (00:04:46): Yeah. Because they so rapidly change in that first year, right, that it's like multiple little different beings that you've met along the way, kind of.

Nissa (00:04:55): Yes.

Lisa (00:04:56): Is she walking yet?

Brit (00:04:58): No, she's standing. Like today she tried to take her first step and fell flat on her face. But she's standing great and she shows off standing and she's got a walker thing that she walks with.

Nissa (00:05:11): But she can't walk on her own.

Brit (00:05:14): Can't walk on her own quite yet. So.

Lisa (00:05:16): Well, enjoy it while it lasts.

Brit (00:05:17): Yeah, I know.

Lisa (00:05:19): Did you say she's teething? Is that what you said? Oh, teetering.

Nissa (00:05:22): No, he was saying she's teasing us.

Lisa (00:05:24): Oh, teasing you. Oh, sorry. I misunderstood.

Brit (00:05:30): I think deep down inside, she knows she can walk, but she just, she'll like smile at us. We'll say, "Wanna walk? Wanna take a take a step? Take a step?" And she'll just plop back down on her bum-bum.

Lisa (00:05:37): So cute. So fun.

Nissa (00:05:43): She's also a really—she's a very healthy baby, is how I would say it. And so I feel like—I think she has a lot of weight to pull up and move around.

Brit (00:05:55): She's like in the 90th percentile in, like, weight, and maybe high eighties or mid-eighties in length.

Nissa (00:06:04): I thought she was bigger than that.

Brit (00:06:06): No, no, no, no. Well she just, she just—she was, but then she got sick, like, a couple of weeks ago, so I think she lost a little bit of weight. So she's down.

Brit (00:06:16): She's getting ready for swimsuit season.

Brit (00:06:20): It's right around the corner.

Lisa (00:06:22): And do you have any celebration plans?

Brit (00:06:24): Yeah, we're just going to do something for the three of us. It feels—you know, we don't really have any family here. So we'll do a little shindig for just the three of us and then we'll call up her godparents and some other friends and probably go out for brunch.

Nissa (00:06:42): I'm going to attempt to make her a cake. We'll see how it goes.

Lisa (00:06:45): ...that she can just dive face first into. That's what I did at my first birthday.

Brit (00:06:54): Yeah.

Lisa (00:06:56): Nice. Yeah. Small is good for a first birthday. It's really more for you guys than for her, because she probably won't remember it.

Brit (00:07:04): Right. I wonder how much of the cake she'll eat.

Nissa (00:07:07): She's a very dainty eater, so she'll probably sort of pick at little things, look at it very curiously and smell it...

Brit (00:07:15): Examine it, throw part of it on the floor, keep part of it on her fingers. Then lick it, put that on the floor, offer it to us.

Lisa (00:07:24): Yeah. So is one of you staying home with her right now or what does that look like?

Brit (00:07:30): We both are.

Nissa (00:07:32): Yeah, we're really, really, really blessed. So both of us have I guess what you would say are sort of freelance careers. And so either one of us is home with her, or a lot of times we also both get to be home with her and it's incredible.

Brit (00:07:45): Yeah.

Lisa (00:07:46): Nice. Do you want to share what you do for a living?

Nissa (00:07:49): Sure, go ahead.

Brit (00:07:51): I'm professional actor.

Nissa (00:07:52): And I'm a communication coach so I own my own business and I work with largely large tech organizations and universities to help them communicate better at work. Mostly teaching them how they develop content, how they deliver that content and how they might design it in terms of their presentations.

Lisa (00:08:11): Great. I always think it's interesting to hear. Also, like, and how does that inform—if it does—your birth experience, you know, what you do for a living? Because we spend so much of our lives doing those careers. So maybe something to just think about. And if you think about anything, by the end of our time together of your sharing the birth story, maybe you can—or along the way—you can share that. And I also think just in New York we have such varied professions that it's really fascinating to hear what people do for a living. So thanks for sharing that. So as we are about to jump into your birth story, do you want to share anything that you—what did you do to prepare for this huge momentous occasion of giving birth and becoming a parent?

Nissa (00:08:55): Well, I had a friend who was a mom in Astoria and she invited me—I know I've heard this mentioned before—to this mom's group called Momally. And so I, being a control freak type A, really need to know everything and want to know everything. And it's the knowledge that helps me feel more secure. So I used that Facebook group to sort of say, "What classes can I take? What should I be reading? Where can I take a prenatal yoga class? Oh, what's a doula? What does a doula actually do? Maybe I should go to this 'Doula and Donuts' situation and figure it out." I did a lot of research and I think that that helped me feel more secure. And then, strangely, like, also incredibly anxious. I think I would have been anxious without the information and I probably was still anxious with the information, just because it's so...for someone who wants to be in so much control, you have no control and you have all the knowledge but you haven't walked through it yet. And so it feels like there's so much unknown.

Brit (00:10:06): Yeah. And we also, you know, I said earlier, we don't have any family here in the city. So, and we had, you know, like, our families couldn't make it even if—because they were ill. So...

Nissa (00:10:23): Yeah, my mom would have been with us when our daughter was born, but...So I was due February 12th. And election day in November, my mom actually shared with us that she had been diagnosed with stage four mantle cell lymphoma. And so she was going to have to start chemo the next month and unfortunately wasn't going to be able to be with us. Which—it was so sad and really, really hard to sort of process that while you're also bringing this new life into the world. But I'm happy to share that she's in remission now and just had, like, a remarkable turnaround.

Lisa (00:10:59): Oh, yay. I'm so relieved to hear that. Oh, that's great.

Nissa (00:11:04): Yeah.

Lisa (00:11:05): But, so you're saying across the journey into early parenthood that she was so in the treatment and everything that she wasn't able to really be there to support you.

Nissa (00:11:13): No, she couldn't, she actually couldn't travel. She wasn't allowed to travel medically. And I guess the hardest part learning that news was feeling, like, the fear that you might lose this person you love so much while also carrying the love that you have for this person you're about to meet. And so I'm so lucky that I didn't lose my mom, but I know other people who have gone through that and have lost a parent. It's very strange to sort of hold grief and joy at the same time. And so that was interesting and difficult.

Lisa (00:11:53): Yeah. Yeah. I am sure there's such a tension in holding those two things at the same time, a lot of conflicting...

Nissa (00:12:00): Totally conflicting. And because we didn't have that support and knew that we wouldn't, then we sort of like doubled down to say, "Who are the people in Astoria, in our neighborhood, that we can come to?" So, of course, Lisa, we took your class and we decided then to have a birth doula and a postpartum doula. And a lactation counselor came to the house before we even gave birth to talk to us about that process. So I think we...what we decided to do is just surround ourselves with a lot of support that wasn't familial support, but were people that we knew were experts and would be there and be present for us and have the knowledge we didn't have.

Brit (00:12:42): Yeah.

Lisa (00:12:44): I love hearing that you had a lactation consultant come prenatally, because that's really, really uncommon. Can you talk at all about what caused you to realize that that was maybe a good idea?

Nissa (00:12:58): So Lee Cohen was—at the time owned the Astoria Doula Collective. And she and I worked together prenatally as well. So I guess that's...Oh, I know. I went to this "Doulas and Donuts" event and at that point I didn't even know what a doula was. And to be honest, I was probably like a little bit of a doula naysayer because I was like, "Oh, do they just like show up with crystals and they're, like, patting your back? I mean, I'm just kinda confused."

Lisa (00:13:29): And that's a common, yeah, it's a common perception of the "hippie doula."

Nissa (00:13:34): And so after doing some research and talking to some people, I realized, "Oh wow, actually what this doula can provide is, like, emotional and physical and even psychological support." And so Lee worked with us before the birth and then after the birth as a postpartum doula and she worked with me to do a process called Havening. And so it was a way to help me sort of move through my fears and anxieties going into the birth because of the fear of having my mom possibly leave. And throughout my life, other things have happened in hospitals that didn't feel joyous. And so how could I re-envision that process so I would feel, like, a sense of smile and a sense of, like, wonder and joy through it all? And in that process, one of the fears that I had that came up was breastfeeding and feeding her and being able to nourish her and care for her. And so Lee was actually the one to recommend a colleague of hers that came to the house. Yeah. And it was, it was remarkable. Like, it was really, really helpful to see the videos and just understand what happens even right when a baby is born and how they have natural ability to come right to the breast, some of them. And how do you, like, care for a child in those first three weeks if you're looking to breastfeed them, and all those sorts of things. And so it was really, really, really helpful.

Brit (00:15:02): Yeah. Like for me, the learning curve was huge. I didn't know. And just to know that, like, we wanted, like, right off the bat, we wanted Vienna to latch right away. I didn't know what "latching" means and then all of a sudden it's like, starting to see her, I'm like, "Okay, yeah, I think this is going to happen. She's going to latch right off. Yes! Yes! This is great!" So, you know, like those kind of benchmarks, you know, that helped me in the process of knowing when she was genuinely contracting, knowing these were contractions that we need to pay attention to. You know, the knowledge we got from the class especially, like, all of that, you know, the, how this works, you know, how powerful the body is. Because, you know, you can anticipate being shut down and freaked out by this situation and then you get there and you just—something in you, you're just like a deer in the headlights for a bit. And it's just natural and normal. So, you know, like, it took me awhile to get into the groove of, "Oh my God, this is happening." But knowing that ahead of time helps. Otherwise I think I would have just been sort of an adrenaline mess for the entire process.

Nissa (00:16:15): Yeah, I think it gives you guideposts. So, like, the journey obviously is not going to be the same for anyone, really. But at least you sort of understand it should look somewhere in this vicinity. And then the next guidepost, perhaps it might look like this.

Brit (00:16:32): Right. The thing that stuck most with me was, you know, there's our birth plan and there's the baby's birth plan. And then when we tell you the story, you'll understand why that came—how true that rang for us.

Nissa (00:16:46): I had a very, very fast birth.

Brit (00:16:49): Very fast. I mean you start with, like, the day before, January 30th, it was Wednesday, and we were due to go see her OB GYN because we were starting our rotation and meeting everyone in the practice. And we were excited because the previous visit, the OB that we saw said, "Hey, there's a little dilation." So we were hoping we were going to get a little bit more dilation and we'd be further along the process. Because there was something special about, you know, Vienna being due on February 12th because my birthday's the 14th, my late mother, who had just passed away a couple of years ago, was on the 16th, and Vienna's namesake was, I think, the sixth. So we were like, "Oh wouldn't it be great if she were born on one of those dates? And like, that'd be perfect. Right on the spot." So you tell what happened that morning.

Nissa (00:17:45): So that morning it was, I don't know if you remember this, but it was the coldest it had been all year. It was, like, two or four degrees, maybe, in the evenings, and had gotten up to 10 or 12 during the day. And I, one of the things that really helped me out throughout the pregnancy was I was going to the gym almost every day. And so that particular day...I think that the trains weren't running, but I still said, "Oh, I'm going to walk all the way to the gym." Walked to the gym, got back. We went into the city to the appointment.

Brit (00:18:16): It was like 15, 20 blocks. She walks.

Nissa (00:18:17): We went to the appointment and we're like, "Oh, let's go to Trader Joe's. We can pick stuff up."

Brit (00:18:24): Oh but, like, when we were at the OB, we were really disappointed when there was no further dilation. I'm like, "Oh wow." So maybe, well, we keep wanting to get on this process of like, "Oh, we'll know this benchmark, we'll know this benchmark." So we did this thing out in the middle of the street.

Nissa (00:18:43): It was snowing.

Brit (00:18:43): It was snowing, it was snowing. So I bent down and I started talking to Vienna. I said, "Okay, Vienna, you don't have to be born on daddy's birthday. You don't have to be born in your grandmother's or your namesake's birthday. You be born anytime you want to be."

Nissa (00:18:58): "So whenever you want to come, we are ready." And by that time I was really ready.

Brit (00:19:03): She was really ready. So we go to Trader Joe's, we come, we get on the train and come back home. We finish our evening. The guy who we picked for our godfather came over and helped us do some stuff in the nursery.

Nissa (00:19:18): Which by that point I was obsessed with. I was like, "Oh, the baby can't get here until this is done."

Brit (00:19:21): Big time nesting mode, big time nesting mode.

Nissa (00:19:24): So we go to bed.

Brit (00:19:25): Go to bed at like 9:30 or something, really early.

Nissa (00:19:29): Yeah. And so then I woke up at 12:30 and I was like, "Oh, I don't feel very well. Oh, man." And I was like, I was having cramps, but I just, it was just—graphically, I mean, I just basically went to the bathroom a lot. And I happen to have Crohn's disease, and so I was like, "Oh, well, the doctor earlier today said that you're similarly dilated as before and that she'd see me next week. There's just no way I'm in labor. Like, I'm having a Crohn's flare."

Nissa (00:20:01): And so I probably, maybe I was in denial. I'm not sure. I waited about two hours, which—during this time I should have been like...

Brit (00:20:09): I'm sound asleep. Doesn't wake me up.

Nissa (00:20:09): Well, I also remember from class it was like, "You can go for a walk and, like, bake cookies. And that was not happening for me. And so I at one point was like, "Oh, maybe, maybe something is wrong. And I woke Brit up at 2:30 or 2:45. I was like, "Something is wrong. Something is wrong."

Brit (00:20:36): No, actually you, when you woke me up you said, "I think I've got gas, Brit, really bad gas." And I'm like, "You woke me up for that?"

Lisa (00:20:44): "Thanks a lot. Let me go back to sleep."

Brit (00:20:48): And then she goes, "Ohhhh!" and she leans over, and she let out...And so I'm like, "That's not gas." So I kinda, like, knew, like, "Are you in contractions?" So I was like, trying to remember what the, I can't remember now what—from the class—you were like, what the pacing of it was. I break out my app and I start timing them, and I'm like, "This is pretty close together. Maybe we should call the doula." So we call the doula.

Nissa (00:21:18): We didn't call. Because I was like, "We cannot call Jeanette. I'm not in labor, I'm not in labor."

Brit (00:21:22): That's right. We texted.

New Speaker (00:21:24): I was like, "It's 3:00 AM. We cannot call her." We texted her and she happened to be awake because her son was sick and she, was like...

Brit (00:21:30): Just happened to be awake. Just happened to be awake.

Nissa (00:21:34): She said to call and put me on speaker phone.

Brit (00:21:36): She goes, "I want to hear her, I want to hear her." And like, "Yeah, that's labor, Brit." Said, "Maybe you should call the doctor." So we called the doctor and they said, "Well maybe you should, maybe you should go to the hospital." By this time Nissa is in profound pain. She is like howling.

Nissa (00:21:55): And I kept thinking to myself, I'm like, "You're a vocal coach, Nissa!" But still I just kept being like, "Aaaaaagh!"

Brit (00:22:02): And I'm panicking. So luckily Nissa had packed, had like the whole, you know, we have the thing that we—what was it called, the overnight bag?

Nissa (00:22:12): To go bag.

Brit (00:22:13): The to go bag. So we had that all set and I said, "Okay, I'm going to get the to go bag. You stay in here, you got to get your pants on." "I can't get my pants on!"

Nissa (00:22:23): It's freezing and I'm thinking I'm just going to go without any pants.

Brit (00:22:23): So I said, "Okay. Sweetheart, I am going to get your pants on." So I get her pants on. And then I called the Uber and so we get downstairs, we get inside the Uber. And I said, "Sir, my wife is in labor. I need you to get to Mount Sinai hospital. Immediately. He goes, "Oh!" And he puts the pedal to the metal and just goes.

Nissa (00:22:49): And I'm screaming.

Brit (00:22:49): Screaming the whole way, all of the Triborough Bridge all the way into Manhattan. And we're like maybe two blocks from the hospital and Nissa finally goes, "Sir, I'm so sorry. I'm so, so sorry." And he goes, "Motherhood is a beautiful thing." So I'm like, "Thank you. Thank you. We're really sorry." So he pulls us right up. I get out and Nissa said, "Just go in, just go in." So I go inside, I won't say the rest of that part.

Nissa (00:23:19): No, you can say it.

Brit (00:23:21): We go inside, we go inside. The security guard, like, gets up to like stop me. I said, "My wife's in labor!" And then he freaks out. So then he goes and gets a wheelchair and then Nissa's like, "Aaaaaaaghh!" coming in. I said, "Do you want a wheelchair?" And she said, "I don't want a [blank-ing] wheelchair!" So we get rid of the wheelchair and then we get her into the elevator. We get to the right floor and we're starting to sign in. And right when we're signing in—this is the funniest thing in the world. A lovely woman is being wheeled out with her newborn baby and she looks so relieved that the whole process is over. She looks up at me, she just goes, "Ah, don't worry. You're going to do fine. You're going to do fine." And Nissa just glares at her. The nurse gives me the paperwork, so I'm starting to sign the paperwork. So they take Nissa into triage.

Nissa (00:24:23): But in triage...I'm going to take over.

Brit (00:24:23): Okay, you take over, yeah [inaudible].

Nissa (00:24:26): I don't really remember a lot about getting from one place to another. I know that they brought us to triage and I thought, "Oh!" I was so happy to know I knew what was coming, from class, that they were going to hook me up to these monitors, and that I knew what steps were going to happen. That being said, it was—I was in so much pain, it was much more painful than I ever anticipated it being, and we got to the hospital at 3:45 and so they did the sonogram around like 4:15 or so. And at this point our birth doula was there. So Jeanette was there down in the lobby and they wouldn't let her upstairs because they said, "Oh, you're only at two centimeters. Do you want an epidural?" And honestly, when I came to class, I arrived at class thinking, like, "Give me all the drugs." Then after taking class and realizing the science behind it and sitting with it for a while, I actually came to a place where I really didn't want an epidural, partially because I get chronic migraines and I didn't want it to trigger a migraine. But also I didn't want her to be exposed to it, and I felt like I had the power to do it without one. So I said, "No, I don't want an epidural." And the woman said to me, "If you don't want one, then you should probably just go home." And I remember looking at Brit thinking, "Are you absolutely flipping kidding me? There's absolutely no way we're going home."

Brit (00:25:51): She goes, "I can't go home, Brit." And I said, "Okay." So one of the nurses, God love him, said, "Just, you know, go to the attending nurse and tell them to let the doula in."

Nissa (00:26:02): So she came in.

Brit (00:26:02): Jeanette, our doula, got in there and started working with Nissa.

Nissa (00:26:07): And she said, "Let's go to the bathroom." So we're in triage in the handicap bathroom at 4:45 now.

Brit (00:26:15): I thought she was going to rip the toilet off the wall.

Nissa (00:26:18): I really—so we were in there from 4:45 for...

Brit (00:26:23): 45 minutes.

Nissa (00:26:25): 45 minutes. And I will tell you 45 minutes felt like a day. All I remember, I felt like a cave woman. I was like sitting down and banging the toilet. Like, literally—Brit is right. It was probably going to come right off the wall. And just like vocalizing and yelling, and Jeanette would help me and touch me. But it was so interesting. I actually felt, like, so much pain that I didn't want to be touched. It was almost like, "I need you vocally to be there and keep talking to me and working through it." But at this point I don't even—I felt like it was one hour long contraction. So what happened is that then I started to bleed and Jeanette was like, "We need to have her brought out and checked again." They take me out in triage and check me and I'm at eight centimeters.

Lisa (00:27:14): Wow.

Nissa (00:27:18): In 45 minutes.

Lisa (00:27:18): Your body was doing some serious laboring, some serious fast progress.

Brit (00:27:24): It was kind of scary because we were strep B positive.

Nissa (00:27:27): And the doctor there, the woman who checked us in, the attending, at that point I think realized that—she was like, "Oh shoot. I should have maybe..."

Brit (00:27:41): "I should have maybe started the antibiotics."

Nissa (00:27:44): And I'm very grateful they didn't do that. Because then I would've been hooked up to monitors and all of these things. But they immediately were like, "We have to get her into her room." And so then I'd say within 10-15 minutes, they brought me to a room. I was now at nine centimeters. And they were giving me antibiotics. And I remember so clearly Jeanette was like, "You can do this without the epidural. You're just—it could be 15 minutes, it could be 30 minutes." And I was so tired and still in so much pain that I just was like, "I have to get one." And ultimately I was a little disappointed in myself that I didn't do it without one, but the doctor that we really wanted didn't come on call until 8:30 that morning. And so by having the epidural, the doctor that I really loved in the practice is the one who was...

Brit (00:28:36): It was before then, because the baby was born at 8:13.

Nissa (00:28:40): No, the baby was born at 8:52.

Brit (00:28:40): 8:52? No, that's when she came in. Somebody—something happened at 8:13.

Nissa (00:28:48): Oh, maybe the doctor came in at 8:13.

Brit (00:28:50): Okay.

Nissa (00:28:53): In any case, I ended up getting an epidural, and I don't even know that it worked that much. I mean...

Brit (00:29:00): It was so fast. Her water hadn't even broken by now. Her water still had not broken.

Lisa (00:29:06): I was just going to ask if it had broken, because usually—not always, but usually they wait to do the antibiotics until after the waters rupture. So I thought maybe I missed it and maybe it did break, but it hadn't. Okay. I guess they were just thinking because you were so close to giving birth, maybe...

Brit (00:29:23): That will lead to a very interesting part of this.

Nissa (00:29:26): So they didn't get to do the four hours of antibiotics obviously, because I got—so I got the epidural, and then things did slow down after getting one. I was able to rest for a little bit. And so I probably had the epidural around 6:30, 6:45, and then I remember thinking for a while that I felt like she was about to come, like I had to push. And I think that they were actually trying to get me to relax for a little bit longer to get some antibiotics in. And at a certain point I was like, "Oh no. Like, she's actually going to come right now. I don't—I'm sorry, this is what's happening." And 10 minutes later she was born.

Brit (00:30:12): It was that fast.

Lisa (00:30:14): Wow.

Brit (00:30:15): And she was caul. She had part of the.

Nissa (00:30:18): She was en caul.

Brit (00:30:18): It wasn't en caul. It was like...en caul is the whole sack...

Nissa (00:30:18): Jeanette said it's called "en caul."

Brit (00:30:18): Oh it is called "en caul."

Nissa (00:30:27): But I don't know any—apparently it's very rare, and she had—I don't know if I did rupture or not. It wasn't the whole amniotic sac. But it was—a portion of it was over her, like, chest and head and part of her body. And it was, I mean it was absolutely remarkable to think that this happened at 12:30 when I thought, "Oh, I just have to poop a lot." And then, "Oh wait a minute. That's actually not what's happening at all. I'm in labor." And for it to go so fast, it's not what I was expecting at all.

Lisa (00:31:04): So from the moment you decided that you were in labor to the birth, how long was it? Eight hours? Or how long?

Nissa (00:31:11): Six.

Brit (00:31:12): Six.

Lisa (00:31:12): Six. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That is definitely on the shorter end of the range of normal. Huge range of normal.

Nissa (00:31:19): Yeah. Yeah. They kept saying at the hospital, "Oh, you were meant to birth babies. Oh, you're like the handmaiden." And I was like, "Oh great, thanks."

Lisa (00:31:27): That's not what we want to hear. Wait a minute, can we take back that reference? Usually if you are eight or nine centimeters, they'll say, "Sorry, it's too late to get the epidural." But that's not what happened, clearly. Because you said you were nine when you got it right?

Nissa (00:31:44): Yes, I and I do remember them, I mean, rushing in and having to do—I don't remember the name for it, but it was something extra to make it....

Brit (00:31:55): Because I had to step out. It was either me or the doula, Nissa's like, "I want the doula!"

Nissa (00:32:02): Yeah. Oh my gosh. And then they wouldn't let me touch her and I was just screaming for Jeanette. I was just, like, reaching out, like, with all of my body and being like "Jeanette, I need you!" and she was sitting in the chair like her little fingertips. I can just imagine her fingertips reaching out to touch my fingertips. And they gave it to me. I think they had to do something to give it even faster than normal. And I remember there being a huge sense of urgency for that. But they didn't, I don't...no one ever said to me, like, "It's now or never." I don't know if maybe again, they wanted to slow things down. I'm not sure.

Lisa (00:32:42): That's an interesting thought. Yeah, it's possible that they wanted to try to get the antibiotics in, and that was why they were like, "Okay, you can do the epidural," with the knowledge that it can slow things down. I don't know. I have never thought about that scenario, but that's a possibility.

Nissa (00:32:58): I'm not sure it's—my instinct tells me that might've been it. Not sure. So it was just, it was just remarkable that it was so fast. And such an out of body experience while being in the body at the same time. And I remember in class you had said that ultimately, like, you're really working together. It's not just me, it's me and the baby. And that, for me, is what was so moving. That she was so ready to be in this world. And her spirit now is the same. She's so determined and wants to figure it out yesterday. And in some ways is incredibly curious. And curious to the point where you could see how...

Brit (00:33:47): You can see her working things out. You can see her thinking.

Nissa (00:33:51): You'd think, "Oh, she did come into the world with her own agenda."

Brit (00:33:55): Yeah. Well, that's the first thing we said when we first heard her heartbeat. I was like—it was so authoritative. I was like, "Now, that's a child with an agenda." And that's pretty much the little one year, almost one-year-old that we're seeing come to life. I mean, that's pretty consistent to who she is now, so, through her birth experience, you know.

Nissa (00:34:19): I felt like a cave woman with this other cave baby, who was like just pounding their way into the world.

Brit (00:34:30): Yeah, yeah.

Lisa (00:34:33): Any reflections on the moment of meeting her?

Brit (00:34:38): I said this—I don't want to get too wavy gravy, but it didn't feel like an introduction. It felt like a reunion. I don't know how to describe it. It felt like a reunion. I don't—that's the only way I can describe it. I felt—this little spirit just felt so familiar to me. And I immediately bonded with her. I mean, when Nissa left her with me for the first time, she went to the bathroom, came back and I'm just weeping. You just weep. And you can't explain why. It's such a profoundly personal thing when you start immediately bonding with your baby.

Nissa (00:35:24): I think I was in shock, like in a really, just, profound way. When you go back to look at the photos, you know, the photo when she was born, it's a live photo so you can hear it as a short video. And I was just, I said, "Oh, my God." And I really meant that. That, like, that God had brought this being into our lives. And I was just so in awe that I had been able to do that, honestly, that I had the strength to bring this child into the world so fast, and that she had the tenacity and strength herself. It was incredibly moving.

Brit (00:36:05): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nissa (00:36:09): And also like completely thrilling and really scary all at the same time.

Brit (00:36:14): Yeah. Yeah.

Nissa (00:36:17): Like, that you have this tiny person who is entirely dependent on you. And it's hard to trust yourself sometimes.

Brit (00:36:25): Yeah. I think that, you know, like, I'm grateful for those three days in the hospital. Because, you know, just having nurses come in and, you know—I remembered a little bit about changing the diaper from the class. But just, I kept eagle eyeing her, you know the nurse that we had, she's just like, you know, "Just make sure the fluff's out because when they have blowouts that'll help you." And I'm like, "What's a blowout?"

Nissa (00:36:54): And he's fantastic at doing diapers now. But...

Brit (00:36:56): Yeah, now I do that every single time. That, and friends coming to our aid. You know, we didn't have family here, but, like, just community coming out of the woodwork. One of my closest friends in the city came and picked us up in his car—we don't have a car—and drove us back home so we could take Vienna in, so we didn't have to take a taxi ride home. And that was really nice.

Lisa (00:37:27): And speaking to that moment of leaving the hospital, any big emotions or any kind of, something you want to share about when you were discharged to go home with your baby?

Brit (00:37:37): Well, yeah. Then it's sort of like, "Okay, we're not going to have any nurses anymore, if something goes..." Because we did have one little mini-scare right before we left.

Nissa (00:37:47): We were just about to leave and they said, "She has labored breathing."

Brit (00:37:52): "She has labored breathing." And so they took her to the thing.

Nissa (00:37:56): The nursery.

Brit (00:37:58): To the nursery. And so we're on the other side of the glass. It was only supposed to take like a second, but then, like, another nurse came, another doctor came, another doctor. We're behind the glass. So we're starting to panic. And then they said, "Just go back to your room." And then we really freaked out.

Nissa (00:38:14): So apparently they were afraid that she was—so her chest was sort of rising and falling. She was struggling to breathe. And they thought that maybe it was because I didn't have the antibiotics and it was related to strep B.

Brit (00:38:28): So then the doctor comes in, and he goes, "It's fine."

Nissa (00:38:31): "It was just a booger."

Brit (00:38:34): "She had the biggest booger I have ever seen."

Nissa (00:38:37): And this is a NICU doctor. They brought a NICU doctor in to take out a booger.

Brit (00:38:38): Okay. Alright.

Lisa (00:38:46): Thanks for freaking us out.

Brit (00:38:51): "Now take her home. Now go home on that note."

Nissa (00:38:51): "Good luck."

Brit (00:38:53): So and I, you know, like—I don't even remember the first three weeks. That was just a blur. So I made a decision that I would—what you said in the class, like, "When she gets up to feed her, you change the diapers." Which I did. Every time Nissa got up. I got up,

Nissa (00:39:18): He got up every single time.

Brit (00:39:23): Looking back, I'm glad that I did that, because the wear on Nissa, you know, that can get lonely. And you know, me getting up with her, that's a little less lonely. There's somebody up with you, there's somebody with you doing it.

Nissa (00:39:41): And I definitely would say that I had postpartum anxiety, and so it was a way that I felt like someone else was there to say, "You're doing the right thing. You're doing okay. Like, she's doing okay. We're all okay." And I so needed that.

Brit (00:39:57): Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (00:39:59): Yay Brit! Thank you for being an amazing supportive partner. We need more of those.

Brit (00:40:05): It was a team effort. We'd be, you know, writing down every time she poops, every time she pees. You know. When she goes to sleep, when she wakes up. We started writing it down and then, I don't know who, somebody gave us the app Sprout that we got and we both put that on our phone and both synced ours up. And even my sister and her mother now that same, and we're all synced up together. So they'll be, you know, in another state. And like, "Oh, she's feeding now. Oh, she's asleep now."

Nissa (00:40:37): To come back to your question about leaving the hospital. I definitely think it was a moment of, like, a little bit of relief to come home and be in our own digs. But I will say we also were just looking at each other like, "Whaaaa? They just let us take this child with us? Okay, here we go."

Lisa (00:41:06): Daunting, right?

Nissa (00:41:08): Yeah. Incredibly daunting.

Lisa (00:41:10): But you've done it. You've done a beautiful job. Yay. One year later.

Brit (00:41:17): One year later.

Lisa (00:41:17): Nissa, do you want to share any more—no pressure, but—about the anxiety that you experienced, and what things besides partner support helped with that?

Nissa (00:41:27): Sure. You said, like, what sort of research did you do beforehand? One of the things that was also really recommended to me was placenta encapsulation. And so I did do that, and I think, I really believe that it helped a little bit. I think it could have been far worse without it. I'm also someone who has generalized anxiety as it is. So it felt to me like I could just tell that there was a heightened amount of anxiety in my system, and I still feel anxious a year later even, and I work with that every day. But it would be, like, a lot of anxiety around—a lot of anxiety around breastfeeding and feeding her and whether I could nourish her. And I had a lot of issues with oversupply and overactive letdown. And so, like, a lot of times she would be gagging and sort of, kind of spit up, threw up a lot. And it was hard.

Nissa (00:42:26): It was hard to feel like, "This is so new. I'm just learning how to do this. I can't control it. I can't read her." It felt like so much was out of my control. I will say I think looking back there is more I could have done to help myself. I think I probably could have gone back to therapy and even done phone sessions if I couldn't have left the house. I probably could have meditated or done yoga with her. But for some reason it all felt too much. Like, even it took me a long time to join the mom groups and just, like, get past the fear of leaving the house. And so if I had a second child, and we do want to have another baby, I think it would be different, because I'd have some knowledge knowing, "Oh, that's what it was like." But I'll be super honest. I don't think I managed it that well, and I think I'm still trying to care for myself in managing it.

Brit (00:43:31): I would say that I think Nissa's being a little bit hard on herself. Because I think she was also feeling the vacuum of her mother not being there. I think there are natural progressions in this process that Linda would normally have been there. And Nissa was feeling that vacuum. And, you know, as her partner, I can be as supportive as I can, but, I mean, there's some things, there's only so much you can do. You just have to sort of trust. And, you know, really delve into your spiritual practice. But, you know, I think Nissa did an extraordinary job, an extraordinary job.

Nissa (00:44:16): And I will say, like, eventually when I sort of pushed myself to leave the house—which, I mean, I haven't been here for a year. It's not like...that would be hard. I think, like, being part of a mom group is great. Looking back on it, I think it would have been even awesome to participate in something like that virtually even earlier. Recognizing, yes, I might've had the anxiety and couldn't leave the house, but maybe there are other people I could start connecting with. And I think one of the other things I started doing was...Brit would say, "Here's, like, the one hour or one -and-a-half hours that you have." Like, I just went out to get a manicure and then came home. And Brit would be really, really great about saying, "Why don't you go do that for yourself?" And I think those little times were the times that—even if you're just sitting there for half an hour and you close your eyes and you come back—were really, really helpful for me. And a lot of times I wouldn't even go do something. I might just walk around the block a few times just to have, like, a walking meditation.

Brit (00:45:23): There were a lot of those.

Nissa (00:45:24): There were a lot of those.

Brit (00:45:25): And just, you know, for people listening to the podcast, like, we recognize we're very lucky in the sense of, because of the nature of our work, both of us getting to be home together. You know, I got to spend the entire first year of my child's life just with her a majority of the time. And with Nissa the majority of time. I think we are also, like, a different couple. In the sense that, like, we spend all of our time together when we're not working. I think we had maybe two instances where we were both working. Like I was booked on a show and she had to work. So we had to get an all-day babysitter. But that is a luxury.

Nissa (00:46:10): Yeah, we are. I mean, we are enormously blessed that we have each other in that.

Brit (00:46:14): That we have each other in that. So that was sort of the silver lining of, you know, we didn't have family here.

Nissa (00:46:23): But I would say that I...one of the things I found really interesting. You asked about professions. So, one, I think coming from an acting background, which I come from, and Brit being an actor, there's so much about being an actor where you're in touch with your voice and your body and you're aware and cognizant of things that maybe other people might not be. And so that was entirely true throughout the pregnancy and throughout the birth. The fact that, you know, you can locate and know what your pelvic floor is and how that supports your voice and all of that that other people are unaware of. Also, I would say in postpartum, being a communication coach came back for me because I felt like there's so much that people say to you when you first have a child sometimes, when they're like, "You should do this. Why don't you do this? You could X, Y, Z." And I think it's really hard to hear those statements as a parent. I mean, in life, you don't want to say to someone, "Well, you should've done this, or you could have done that." But I think the people who said, "Why don't I just share with you my personal story," or, "That sounds like, wow, you know, you must be exhausted," or really just sat and, like, held the space were the things that were the most useful for me.

Brit (00:47:50): Yeah. Yeah.

Nissa (00:47:52): And I met some wonderful moms who were able to do that, who—now I still call them friends, and I'm so grateful and blessed that Vienna gets to be friends with their little babies.

Brit (00:48:02): That's an unexpected thing, is the new community that you start to grow through that. Fellow parents. Especially in New York, there's really a camaraderie of, "Hey, you're doing this, too? This is tough doing in this city, but we're doing it! All right!" It's been really nice. We've met some lovely, lovely people and there's some, there's also a shift in, you know, the things that you, that we used to do socially that you really can't do that anymore. And that's okay. You know, I'm a little bit older, you know, like, I'll be 51 my next birthday. And I'm just so excited about this next phase of life and I love getting spend all this time with just my little trio family, you know, just us. It's really, really cool. I just like that there's all these unexpected things that have arrived in this first year like that, that have been really, really nice. So I don't know about what it was like for you on that same front. What was unexpected for you?

Nissa (00:49:10): What was unexpected?

Brit (00:49:11): Yeah, that was like, "Aw, this is cool."

Nissa (00:49:16): Oh, I think it's just such a gift to be a mom.

Brit (00:49:23): I remember the first time that she...when I gave her to Nissa, and then she turned back to me, or vice versa. And now she's full on—if I walk into a room, she'll hold her hands out for me. Or vice versa. Like Nissa went to the dentist today and I was looking after Vienna. And she was sitting down and Nissa called and she perked up her ear like she heard Nissa. And we got off the phone. I said, "Mommy's coming home." And she went, "Uhhh." And she reached out her hands because she thought mommy was about to come in the door. That kind of stuff is, like, just amazing. It's really, really amazing.

Nissa (00:50:09): And I think through all of the tears and the anxiety and the excitement and the joy and the sadness and the remarkable nature of it all is that—the thing that I think I feel most grateful is that your life becomes transformed because you start to see every day through the eyes of this little person who is seeing every day anew for a first time. It's such a gift. It's such a gift.

Lisa (00:50:48): That's beautiful. One thing I love that I'm observing about the two of you... I just feel like you really lift each other up, and you're very affirming and loving and caring and supportive toward each other. Is there one thing as you've each become—you've moved into this new and improved identity of mother and father—is there one thing that you have loved seeing in each other?

Brit (00:51:12): You know, I've got to say that like, I've always thought Nissa had really—when she was building her business, I just thought she had really good instincts for stuff. But I gotta say for Vienna, Nissa can be so incredibly inventive about stuff that would be super cool for a little baby to interact with and do, and Nissa's always got her ear to the ground for like, you know, a really super cool deal on these Facebook sites that she buys stuff off of.

Nissa (00:51:45): I like how the compliment you give me is "You do a good job finding Facebook deals!"

Brit (00:51:46): What? What? Did I misspeak myself?

Nissa (00:52:03): No, you're just making me laugh. I love that you're complimenting me for liking yard sales.

Brit (00:52:08): You are—it's—well, it's not just, like, liking yard sales. It's like you'll find that one thing...

Nissa (00:52:14): Oh girl, you and I need to go yard sale-ing and thrift store-ing.

Nissa (00:52:18): It's my favorite thing. My favorite thing.

Lisa (00:52:19): Me, too.

Brit (00:52:22): She got these pad things. Like, we have, like, basically hard floors everywhere. She found these pad things that she bought, brought them home, I'm like, "What? What the heck is this? Why did you get this?" I had no idea what this was. Well, of course when Vienna started to feel better after getting sick, we were like, "Oh, she's starting to move around. We got to..." So Nissa goes and breaks it out and starts putting it down everywhere. So now Vienna's got a whole new apartment to... I'm like, "Wow. That was really, that was a great foresight. That's great, Nissa."

Nissa (00:52:55): Basically it seems like at the time I'm bringing home junk, but now I'm learning that actually you are...thanks for the affirmation, honey.

Lisa (00:53:02): Inventive and resourceful.

Brit (00:53:05): Very. Very very. This one time with the the high chair that she got, she got this—what is that called? It's this European high chair that, when she first bought it, I was like, "Why did you..." Like, "I don't understand this." It had all, like she had put on the baby list for all these accessories for it, but now I'm like, "It will grow with her. Oh, this is brilliant. How does she know ahead of time?" Like she sort of saw it in her mind's eye. I mean she's always been good with that. But, like, with Vienna it's like gone twenty-fold. I'm like, "Wow! That's really, really good."

Nissa (00:53:44): So anyway, I'm going to go on online, see what I can find at a yard sale while I have the

Brit (00:53:49): I've only become more entertaining to my daughter as time's gone on. I couldn't be that—like, plan that far ahead. I just think that's amazing.

Nissa (00:53:59): Okay, so what I was going to say—when you say "entertaining"–is that, like you, you more than ever make me and Vienna laugh every day. I mean, I always thought you were funny, but I didn't think you were that funny. You are really funny and I don't know if it's because, so Brit mentioned he's an actor. He's also, you know, a voiceover artist. And I'm telling you, Brit has the best voices for, like, every story and every song. And even the way he speaks to her and the way that you play with her and you sing sing such a funny song every night when we get out of the bath and she just, she looks at you and she chuckles and she smiles so adoringly. And I feel like, I guess I love that you are so playful. I just love that you're so playful and that you bring her so much easeful joy. Like Michael Chekhov, he talks about these psychological gestures and one of them is the gesture of flight, which means like you feel, like, boundless and you're flying. And I think the thing that you give Vienna is the feeling of flight.

Brit (00:55:20): Do you know what it is? Like I have to say this. Like, I don't know, like, the way this sounds, but Vienna makes me a better actor. I booked more this year than I've ever booked in my life. And what it is is presence. You cannot check out with your child. They notice. They notice. And I've never been been more aware of my checking out than with my daughter. Like she knows. Like, Nissa and I are in a constant battle with, you know, getting off our phones and making sure that we're completely present with her. And even if the phone's away, like, you know, you're present with your, you know, with people. But, like, a child really makes you slow down and get present. And that's made me—the practice of that every day, you know, all day long, you know, it sort of ingrains in you, and I, I feel like I've, you know, especially for on-camera work, just being present, I think that's really, really helped me. So, of course, I think that's allowed me, being more—because you do, you have to be inventive. They get bored. Vienna gets very, very bored.

Nissa (00:56:33): But I also think it's like, I mean, the playfulness that you bring to Vienna also really helps me. Because if I'm feeling, like, feeling anxious about something and you can like sing a tune or, you know, you're like, "We've got a poop! It's a poooooop!" You know, the way that you just treat things makes me feel like I can laugh at the situation and laugh at myself. And I think, of course, like, I love watching you hold her and be with her and love her. But I love watching you teach her to play. Because I always want her to be able to feel like she can, can find play in her life.

Brit (00:57:14): Just for the record, I don't know always say that when she poops. Most of the time it's sheer panic when she poops. She always has the blowout when Nissa's not at home and I'm doing it all by myself. So then I have to, like, get really inventive so it just doesn't get everywhere. Well, I love that I'm putting this out into the stratosphere so that when Vienna grows up, she's like, "You're talking about my poop and getting it out into the jet stream."

Nissa (00:57:45): She's gonna talk like that?

Brit (00:57:48): When she's upset, she'll talk just like that.

Nissa (00:57:48): And also you should know that Brit had a really hard time putting the diaper on the doll baby during class.

Brit (00:57:57): I did. So I'm very, very proud that I worked past that. So yeah.

Lisa (00:58:03): You are an expert now.

Brit (00:58:05): I think I had a very, very small doll, but I have a very, very big-boned daughter, so it was a little bit easier to navigate, I think, on the big-boned daughter.

Nissa (00:58:19): She was tiny, though. She was tiny.

Brit (00:58:21): She was tiny at one time. When I had to fold them back. But yeah, now we're up to five diapers. The number fives.

Nissa (00:58:31): I know. I'm not sure how many one-year-olds were a size five, but...

Brit (00:58:34): Ours does.

Nissa (00:58:37): Overachiever.

Brit (00:58:38): Overachiever.

Nissa (00:58:40): There you go.

Lisa (00:58:43): Oh, this has been so wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to share your birth story and all these great reflections that I think are such beautiful insights for expectant parents. Are there any things that you haven't gotten to share that you would like to share before we sign off, or do you have any tips or other wisdom or insights for expectant parents who might be listening?

Brit (00:59:04): I don't know, like, really it's so idiosyncratic to the child that, you know, I'm wary...I've grown, very, very wary of giving advice, because...just trust your instincts.

Nissa (00:59:21): And I don't often like the word "advice," actually, which I think probably comes back to not wanting to get direct advice from individuals. Because it's so easy to judge yourself against all the social media influencers you see, and the other moms you hear of, and the posts you see on Facebook. And so I don't really have any advice except to say that being a parent is really hard. And anyone out there listening that is a parent, you are all phenomenal rockstars, amazing, incredible individuals. And I'm so grateful I get to be part of your ranks. And we can do it. Not every day is easy, but we can totally do it.

Brit (01:00:16): I heard somebody call it "my terrifying blessing." And I think that that's the most apropos because I don't want to—like it is, it scares you. But, like, I don't like to express that too much, because that doesn't really reflect how I feel. I'm just so—the amount of joy...I told Nissa, I said this today, I said, I have never felt in my 51, almost 51 years, I've never felt this content before in my life. And I say that after, you know, you help your child through their first sickness, and you know, and up all night coughing and then they get congested and you take them to the shower to steam them out and you know, you get them through that. Or you have to babysit them for.

Nissa (01:01:04): Daddy-sit, you mean?

Brit (01:01:04): Yeah, Daddy-sit for a couple of days while Mommy works, and I'm not as lovable as mommy. But we got through, and we got to do some really cool things together. And, you know, and I learned how to give my daughter a bath all by myself, which was terrifying. Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this.

Nissa (01:01:24): The only other thing I want to say, that I think—I guess as much for me as anyone else—is that looking back, the only thing I think I wish I had done was sort of let go of expectations. I think I expected the labor to be longer, so I didn't trust that I was in labor earlier. I think that I...

Brit (01:01:44): We had great music list that we never got to use.

Nissa (01:01:46): Oh my gosh. Do you know what? I had, like, in that labor bag there were tea lights, honey sticks. There was a diffuser, labor music playlist, like, a nice robe to put on. I'm like, "I'm lucky I have, like, clothes on at all and—oh, there's the baby!" But I think, like, even the expectations for what was expected of me, or what I expected of myself coming home with a baby, and even when I expected from her, and what I expected from Brit. I think next time around I would want to not carry all of that, and know that my instincts are telling me at this point, like, "Wow, maybe this is labor, maybe she is coming," or what are my instincts saying here about how I'm breastfeeding, and what do my instincts say here about why she might be waking up or having difficulty sleeping? Or how could I trust myself more? I think it would be something that would be really, really important for me. I guess it would be great to let go of all expectations in life, but especially in childbirth and becoming a parent.

Lisa (01:03:00): Yeah. That surrender and that trust. Yeah, it's challenging. Big life lessons, right, that we learn. But it's a continual thing. It's never going to be, "We've arrived, and we've totally learned to do that 100!"

Nissa (01:03:15): Well, I know what we're coming up against time. So the last thing that I also want to say is that I don't know that I ever respected women that had gone through childbirth the way that I do now. The fact that women, the way that we are built in our bodies to do this enormous feat is just, like, simply remarkable. And I do remember my best friend, who's Vienna's godmother, came to the hospital the day after she was born. And I remember looking at her and just being like, "Heather," and I sometimes I can swear like a sailor. So again, I won't say it, but I was like, "I ...did this. Like, that child, I popped that child out, I carried it, and I did it." And I think that that is so absolutely remarkable that women have that capacity. It's just mind-blowing. And I feel really, really, really proud of myself for that.

Lisa (01:04:17): Yeah. Rightly so.

Brit (01:04:19): It was humbling to watch. It was humbling to experience, I mean, the speed of it, and I just feel so blessed that everything turned out great. We had the doctor we wanted to deliver and that Nissa was okay. Vienna was okay.

Nissa (01:04:34): The other thing I would say is that it would have been a completely different experience had I not had Lee, or Jeanette, or Dawn, or yourself, or Andrea, or, you know, the women that we surrounded ourselves with in terms of our support that we had, we wouldn't be where we are today without them.

Brit (01:04:53): I especially want to give a shout out to Lee, our postpartum doula. I mean, Jeanette was an extraordinary part of this process of being our birth doula. But our postpartum doula just—I don't know what we would've done without her.

Nissa (01:05:10): And I think that, largely, it's not about the difference between the two. I think it's about the fact that...

Brit (01:05:14): What we needed.

Nissa (01:05:16): What we needed at the time. And I guess when you do say advice, the one thing I would say is that—don't underestimate how much support a postpartum doula could provide for you. And Lee was absolutely...

Brit (01:05:32): A gift.

Nissa (01:05:35): Yeah. We wouldn't be here without her.

Brit (01:05:37): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa (01:05:38): Isn't she wonderful? And I'm so sad that she's—last I heard not doing any birth work anymore. But I kind of keep hoping she'll come back and do more.

Brit (01:05:49): Yeah, I get it. I mean, that's a lot. It was a lot of—she's so good at it, too. She was effortless. Yeah. We're about out of time.

Nissa (01:05:57): Can you tell we like to talk?

Brit (01:05:59): Yeah. Well, we started unearthing this thing and I'm like, "Wow. Yeah. Wow." It's really cool. We want to thank you. This is a really cathartic thing to do, now that we're approaching Vienna's first birthday, to really walk back through this. It was a remarkable experience then. And this last year, it's just been...I'm forever changed. I'm forever changed.

Nissa (01:06:26): Motherhood is a beautiful thing!

Lisa (01:06:27): That was such a great line.

Brit (01:06:33): I wish I had gotten his card.

Lisa (01:06:36): "Can I record that?"

Brit (01:06:37): I wish.

Nissa (01:06:41): I remember I was like, "Oh, I'm sorry." I was like, in the middle, I'm like, "Oh, I'm sorry. What was your name? Oh, Mohammed, thank you so much! I'm sorry! I'm sorry I'm screaming the whole time." He was another gift. Another little angel along the way.

Lisa (01:06:55): Happy birthday to Vienna.

Nissa (01:06:59): Thank you.

Lisa (01:07:00): And really enjoyed our talk. So have a great night and I hope to see you in the neighborhood.

Nissa (01:07:05): Thank you for everything, Lisa.

Brit (01:07:07): Thank you, Lisa.

Lisa (01:07:09): Bye.

Lisa (01:07:10): Many thanks to Nissa & Brit for sharing their thoughtful reflections on their journey into parenthood. If you hop over to the podcast website, which is birthmattersshow.com and go to episode 31, I’ve linked to more information on several things Nissa & Brit mentioned in this episode, including the Sprout Baby app and Havening Therapeutic Techniques. Based on topics that came up in last episode and this episode, I wanted to compare and contrast the baby blues to postpartum depression and other perinatal mood & anxiety disorders. The baby blues, which Jess mentioned experiencing in the last episode, are something very common and that occur in 50-80% of new parents. Notice I didn’t just say the person who’s given birth, but any parent of a newborn can experience this. For the person who’s given birth, the most common time to experience this is right around the time the milk comes in which is most commonly days 3 to 5 but could be as late as day 14. Around this time, there are many huge hormonal shifts in a breastfeeding or chestfeeding parent that can cause us to feel like we have PMS off the charts. You might experience any one or more of the following: Mood swings, anxiety, sadness, irritability, crying, difficulty concentrating, feelings of inadequacy...just to name a few. The big difference between baby blues and something more serious called postpartum depression or other perinatal mood and anxiety disorders is mostly how long it lasts. The baby blues last anywhere from just a few hours up to two to three weeks. However, if the symptoms persist beyond two or three weeks, then it might be developing into something more serious that requires professional help. The more serious, clinical diagnoses include depression, anxiety, panic disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and the very rare postpartum psychosis. In case that list feels a bit overwhelming and to avoid overcomplicating things, let’s just say that if you feel really off, you’re not feeling yourself, and it’s not getting better within 2 or 3 weeks from the onset, do seek out professional help. If you need to seek out therapy in pregnancy or beyond, it's very important to seek out someone who specializes in this time of life--the perinatal phase. Those who specialize in this time of life have a deeper understanding of the risk factors beyond the conventional, narrow clinical definitions and will be able to provide more effective support. Your childbirth educator, doula, midwife, or OB may have local recommendations. In the show notes for this episode over at birthmattersshow.com, I’ll list a few resources both here in New York City as well as online resources for finding help such as one-on-one therapy, working with a psychiatrist, day programs or support groups. We go into this topic in much greater depth in birth class, including prevention strategies, risk factors, rates of occurrence in parents, and common symptoms. But for now, I can’t emphasize enough how important two things are to significantly reduce your risk for these complicating factors: First thing, building in support in your pregnancy and especially after birth. And the second thing is keeping open lines of communication with your partner or anyone who might be supporting you through this time, intentionally checking in to be sure that each parent is doing okay from day to day. Note how both Jess & Nissa found ways to surround themselves with strong support, especially in postpartum, which helped a lot. Support has been a resounding theme in many episodes up to this point, and it’s because it’s so, so important in this time of life. Remember when Nissa talked about how she found it helpful to remember that her baby was an active participant in the process of being born? My favorite resource on this topic is an interview on the Birthful podcast with Karen Strange. I've mentioned it before, but it bears repeating because it's just so great. I'll link to it again in this episode's show notes over at birthmattersshow.com. Do give it a listen; I think you’ll find it fascinating. For the month of April, which is Cesarean Awareness Month, we’ll be sharing 3 cesarean birth stories. Here’s a sneak peek of what’s up next week!

Speaker 5 (01:11:29): We got pulled over by a cop. It's like something out of a movie, you know, right? You're like about to get to the hospital and you're in labor and a policeman pulls you over and we pulled into the hospital and a cop pulled up behind us. My husband's like, "What did I do?" He's just like, "License and registration." My husband gets out of the car which kind of freaked him out a little bit, and my husband just was kind of like, you know, a little frantic, and he's like, "My wife's in labor. I just want to see if I can park over there." And then he, like, hands the cop his license. He's like, "Here's my license, just mail it back to me. Give me a ticket, whatever you need to do. My wife is in labor, though. We got to go. Like, I gotta park, whatever." And the cop just like–at that point the cop is just like, "Here you go, just...nevermind."

Lisa (01:12:16): Your affirmation for this week is to remember what the cabbie said, which I'm going to modify here to include everyone. Motherhood and parenthood is a beautiful thing. Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast. Have a great week and we'll see you next time.---END---