Today, Alicia shares details about her hospital induction, which she was able to manage without pain medications. Before she gets into that, she talks about the various ways she equipped herself with as much knowledge as she needed to feel confident going into the process of giving birth. Because her blood pressure read high and amniotic fluid looked borderline low at 39½ weeks, the decision was made to induce labor. She describes the many hours that proceed from there, how their doula provided comfort measures, and how praying helped center her through to the pushing stage. Alicia also shares some details of early breastfeeding, cloth diapering, and her tips for expectant parents on building support and a knowledge base.
Episode Topics:
Go-bag all packed
Getting pregnant almost immediately once they decided to “try”
Uncomplicated pregnancy
Ways they prepped -- hiring a doula, taking birth class, going on hospital tour, reading positive birth stories and watching YouTube videos
At about 39.5 weeks, Alicia’s BP is high and amniotic fluid on the low end of healthy, so doc Decides they need to induce
Going home to eat and finish packing
Checking in for induction, starting with cervidil, having visitors
Last meal next day for lunch before starting pitocin
Doula Erica comes and helps lots with comfort measures
Losing all inhibition in active labor
Her sister comes and they do some prayers - some Hail Marys and Our Fathers
Feeling urge to push around midnight, figuring out what worked for pushing
Doula helping breastfeeding get off to a good start
Shared postpartum room
Cloth Diapering
Tip: Invest time and resources into prepare for birth & save up for a doula!
Resources:
Erica Simpson, doula
Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin
Diaperkind.com - cloth diaper service
Cloth Diapers with Heather Holt (Birthful podcast)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Transcript
Lisa (00:00:00): You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 29.
Alicia (00:00:03): I really wanted to go do a tour of the hospital because I like to visualize, like, the scene ahead of time. But the nurse navigator said that if you wanted to see a room you could call her or text her and she would let you know when there was one open and you could run up really quick and hope to see it. So I got, like, a personal tour to go see one of the rooms. This woman is, like, really great. I ended up, like, hanging out with her after for a little bit, like, I was, like, in her office and she's just telling me about, I don't know, we were talking about birth stuff. And I said that I wanted to try a natural birth and, like, she said, it was basically like Yoda from Star Wars. She was just, like, just, "You're going to do it." You know, "There's no try," like, "You're just going to do it." That, like, those words I kept in my head. And the other thing she said was "Never ask for the epidural during a contraction. Like, wait until the middle so, like, you're in your own brain." And during labor, like, there was no pain in between the contractions, so I always felt like I could do another one because I had that in my head.
Lisa (00:01:11): Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on the show is not intended as medical advice, or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. If you enjoy this show, we'd be incredibly grateful if you'd share it with a friend. You can follow and share our posts on social media @birthmattersnyc, or simply tell them to search for Birth Matters wherever they listen to podcasts.
Lisa (00:01:53): Today, Alicia shares details about her hospital induction, which she was able to manage without pain medications. Before she gets into that, she talks about the various ways she equipped herself with as much knowledge as she needed to feel confident going into the process of giving birth. Because her blood pressure read high and amniotic fluid looked borderline low at 39½ weeks, the decision was made to induce labor. She describes the many hours that proceed from there, how their doula provided comfort measures, and how praying helped center her through to the pushing stage. Alicia also shares some details of early breastfeeding, cloth diapering, and her tips for expectant parents on building support and a knowledge base.
Lisa (00:02:14): Before we get started on the birth story, today's episode is brought to you by the Birth Matters Complete Online Course. If you can't squeeze in an in-person group birth class series, or if you didn't feel like the one you took was comprehensive enough, or if you don't even have a quality class available in your area, I have the perfect solution for you. Birth Matters Complete Course is an online recorded version of my in-person full series. It covers not only prep for an amazing birth with self-advocacy tips, best current evidence, and tips for partners, but also holistic postpartum wellness, breastfeeding and newborn care. And to top it off, you get lifetime access so that you can use it as a refresher later in this or future pregnancies. For New York City locals, you have an option to add to the course an in-person one evening hands-on comfort measures workshop, which is a really ideal option for the more tactile parts of the course. Check it out at birthmattersonline.com. Now let's jump in.
Lisa (00:03:35): Welcome to the Birth Matters Show. Hello, Alicia. How you doing today?
Alicia (00:03:40): Hi, I'm pretty good. You know, a little sleep deprived, but I think that's normal.
Lisa (00:03:45): Yeah. So where are you in your parenting journey? How long ago did you give birth? Pretty recently.
Alicia (00:03:50): Yeah. It was only a little more than four months ago. September 1st, 2019.
Lisa (00:03:56): So still in the throes of new parenthood?
Alicia (00:03:59): Yeah, definitely. I'm not a pro at anything.
Lisa (00:04:04): Well, I'm always especially grateful when parents are willing to share this early on, because, you know, hopefully the birth story is a little more fresh on your memory, but it's a hard time to share anything, for your brain to work.
Alicia (00:04:16): Exactly. So I'll try not to stutter. I'll try not to drone on about things.
Lisa (00:04:26): No pressure at all. And so you guys are based in Manhattan?
Alicia (00:04:30): Yeah.
Lisa (00:04:30): I think it's always helpful to have kind of a sense of the setting and, you know, commute to the birthplace and all of that. So why don't you just jump in wherever you'd like to start, whether that's, you know, prenatal preparation for birth or birth, whatever that is.
Alicia (00:04:47): Yeah. I'll talk about the lead up and preparation a little bit. For us, fortunately there weren't any issues with getting her. Basically about a year ago, like, pretty much, I was like, "Yeah, I want a baby." And I thought it would take about a year, you know, to, like, be successful, because, I don't know, you know, you don't think it's going to happen right away. But it did and we're very happy. So I kind of had the feeling right away that I was pregnant. And right away we made an appointment to go to an OB. And it was very early on, but I remember just, like, the first time seeing her on the screen as just, like, a teeny little pinprick just, like, bouncing around, because they move so much even right from the start. And it's crazy to think that that was only a year ago, or already a year ago. And most of my pregnancy was pretty healthy. The first—I think it was one of the first appointments, I had slightly high blood pressure. But it was only one time, and after that everything was normal and I was healthy. I did—the first doctor I went to was just, she was just a gynecologist, actually, so I ended up having to switch doctors for my second trimester. But they recommended Dr. Elliston, from the East 86 Street...
Lisa (00:06:07): 1060 ObGyn? I'm looking back at your intake.
Alicia (00:06:12): Yeah. So originally, yeah. So I had to switch from my second trimester to go to 1060, and there are three main doctors there, and the one who ended up doing my delivery was Dr. Elliston, and I think—and they were all great, but she was, like, really, you know, first-class, I think. So, like I said, everything was normal. I remember going to the 20 week appointment and seeing, like, the first real sonogram of her and, like, in profile—see, I say "her" now because I know she's a girl, but at the time I had decided not to find out the sex. So in the picture I thought it was, I don't know why—it was just, to me it looked like a boy. So the whole time I thought "It's going to be a boy," but it was, like, the cutest, like, the most perfect little profile and, like, her nose looked like it was going to be like mine, like, a little, just, like, a little "doop" and then I had to get through the summer with all that pregnancy stuff.
Alicia (00:07:08): And, like, I remember also talking to Jar, I think in the spring, about getting a doula, but he thought it sounded kind of frou-frou at the time. Like, he's 100% engineer, and, like, I knew, like, it was expensive so I couldn't just, like, go off and decide to get it myself. So I needed him to be on board with that. So I kind of put the idea aside for awhile. And then I was asking one of my other good friends—I only have, like, a couple of good friends who've already given birth. So I was leaning mostly on one of them for, like, reference.
Lisa (00:07:39): Is that the way you heard about doulas, through your friends? Or how did you find out about doulas?
Alicia (00:07:43): Oh, yeah. I found out originally through my friend, one of my friends who I was in grad school, like, a while ago, she had had a doula, and so she just talked about how great her birth experience was all the time. She had had a water birth, and so originally I would have liked to have a water birth. Maybe, maybe for the next one.
Lisa (00:08:02): Is she local?
Alicia (00:08:02): No, she lives in Ohio now.
Lisa (00:08:06): Okay. Yeah. Water births are hard to come by. Unless it's, like, a home birth, or out of the city.
Alicia (00:08:12): Yeah.
Lisa (00:08:12): There's one place Brooklyn Birthing Center. But yeah.
Alicia (00:08:18): So, I didn't know—I didn't have the option, because I went based on, like, who my OB was gonna be based out of, so it was going to be Lenox Hill, and they don't have that at all.
Lisa (00:08:28): Yeah.
Alicia (00:08:28): So, like, I knew having a doula was just—it just sounded like a nice idea, but I didn't think it would be necessary. I don't know. Now I'm like, "Everybody should have one!" At the time I didn't—I didn't know what it was going to be like. So, but my friend who, like, I was asking about birth classes actually... Yeah I wanted to ask about birth classes. Because I hadn't really thought of that either. Like, I was just reading books. But my friend upstate, she—they had just gone to a birth class, like, as part of their hospital tour. So that's what I was looking at at first. But then I thought about how I really don't know anybody around here who's given birth, and I don't have that many, like, just not much knowledge about it, or how to take care of the baby after. So I wanted a class that was, like, a little bit of everything, which is what you provided. It was so perfect, like, it was how to prepare your body and, like, how to go through the labor and then a little bit of the newborn care and breastfeeding support after. Like, it was really, really awesome. And so your class, honestly, I think it really is the reason that I had such a positive experience.
Lisa (00:09:32): Oh my goodness. That's so kind of you to say. I would give you a ton of credit because you had to go through it. I mean, but thank you.
Alicia (00:09:42): It just, I mean, it was because of your class, like, we decided to get a doula basically and I think also you educated us a bit on the nutrition. The doula, she also had a lot of, like, tips on nutrition, too, and that, like, I knew, you know, eating is important, but I didn't know exactly what was going to be that beneficial. And so your class teaching us the counter pressure moves and then also just, like, the nutrition, and just thinking about natural birth, like, when we first found out I was pregnant, Jarek was like, "You're getting an epidural." Because again, he's an engineer and he had kidney stones at one point. So he's, like, he's like, "I know pain and you don't want this."
Lisa (00:10:26): The male form of giving birth, I've always heard.
Alicia (00:10:28): His doctor said it's, like, on the pain scale, it's the same apparently. And so he was really worried that I would go through the pain of childbirth if I didn't get the epidural and, like, just he thought that's the reason for postpartum depression and, like, all these things, like, so he was really afraid of that. But then, like, I was—I started reading that book, the Natural Birth stories and I'm, like, it's just the first half is like "Chicken Soup for, like, Pregnant Lady's Soul," like, all these positive, "Oh, this is natural." "Oh, you can do this, you can birth a ten pound baby without an epidural, like, if you have the right support."
Lisa (00:11:05): Are you talking about Ina May's Guide to Childbirth?
Alicia (00:11:09): Such a good book. So I'm, like, telling everybody to read that.
Lisa (00:11:13): I wanted to ask you, how did Jarek become convinced that hiring a doula was a good idea?
Alicia (00:11:20): I think when we were practicing the counter pressure moves in your class and he understood how physical supporting me was.
Lisa (00:11:29): Yes, that's the most common time—at least in birth class—that people are, like, "Oh my gosh, maybe we do need a doula. This is hard work." Yeah. Got it.
Alicia (00:11:41): That is, like, definitely where that was one of the really big benefits of having her there was for that physical support, because I needed it a lot. Yeah. Oh, where was I? I lost it.
Lisa (00:11:54): I think you were listing off a few things that were helpful about class.
Alicia (00:11:59): Yeah, sorry. So the, okay, I was talking about how, like, I started thinking about natural childbirth mostly because of you. Like, I know even when I was younger and, like, I first learned about babies and stuff, I was, like, and I heard that there was an epidural, I was, like, "Oh I will definitely get that if I give birth because I don't like pain." But, like, it's just—that book made me rethink childbirth and think about how, "Oh, it is a natural process." And, like, it doesn't need to be so medical, like, everything doesn't need to be so medical. And it was a really, really nice way to think about it. And I think it kind of made me think about birth as just a really important part of being human and bringing someone into the world. It's, like, such a great thing. So I told Jarek that I was, like, "All right, I think I want to try natural birth." And so what he made me do is watch videos online of women giving birth and look at the difference in their faces, like, the difference between those who had a natural birth and those who got the epidural.
Lisa (00:13:01): Trying to talk you out of it? Oh my goodness, you have not told me this. This is hilarious.
Alicia (00:13:10): I did this. And so that's how I knew, like, I watched the whole thing. I was, like, "Okay, I'll do this." And honestly in the videos, the women who, like, went natural seemed the most most satisfied after, to me. It seemed like a more positive experience. During the labor, you could tell they were really suffering. But afterwards it's like, I think you mentioned this too, it's like, the pain is only during the birth and then after there's no side effects, you're just done, you know, and yeah.
Lisa (00:13:43): And you have a beautiful natural hormonal surge that happens after that birth.
Alicia (00:13:47): So much.
Lisa (00:13:47): That sometimes can be suppressed if there have been medications introduced.
Alicia (00:13:52): Yeah, yeah, yeah. That happened to me, like, so many endorphins afterwards. I was, like, riding that for a couple days. So I watched the videos and I told him I was, like—what I felt and he's like, "Okay." And I was, like, "I'll be fine, I'll be able to take care of her. Don't worry. Even after this." So I was really hoping for a natural birth. I knew that, you know, things happen and maybe there would be a C-section or you know, something else. I didn't have a solid birth plan, like, I didn't want to, like, feel disappointed in myself or something if things didn't go through. But I did have that as a preference and I even talked to my doctor about it, Dr. Elliston, and I asked her, I was, like, "What's your opinion on the epidural or no epidural?" And she's, like, "Medically, there's no difference." And that was, like, you know, hearing that from a doctor, that's probably the best support you'll get, I feel like, for this. So she knew what I wanted. She's, like, "You just have to tell us so that the nurses aren't constantly in your face with, like, 'Do you want the epidural yet?'"
Lisa (00:14:51): Because they will be. If you don't tell them to please not constantly offer it.
Alicia (00:14:56): Yeah. Another thing that helped me was, we did get—I really wanted to go do a tour of the hospital, because I like to visualize, like, the scene ahead of time. But the first time we went on the tour we weren't able to see a labor room. They only had, like, 8 or 10 labor rooms at Lenox Hill. So we weren't able to get into one. But the nurse navigator, her name is Lisa Chevrion, she said that if you wanted to see a room, you could call her or text her and she would let you know, like, when there was one open and you could run up really quick and hope to see it. So I did this and so I got, like, a personal tour to go see one of the rooms, which, it's like, they're very basic, but I was, like, "Okay, that's it. Honestly I would like to have a home birth, but whatever." Jarek said also he was like, "Please have this baby in the hospital. At least the first one." I was, like, "Fine." So the, this woman is, like, really great. I ended up, like, hanging out with her after for a little bit, like, I was, like, in her office and she's just telling me about, like—I don't know, we were talking about birth stuff. And I said that I wanted to try a natural birth and, like, she said, it was basically like Yoda from Star Wars. She was just like, just, "You're going to do it. You know, there's no try, like, you're just going to do it."
Alicia (00:16:16): That, like, those words I kept in my head. And the other thing she said was "Never ask for the epidural during a contraction. Like, wait until the middle, so, like, you're in your own brain." And during labor, like, there was no pain in between the contractions. So I always felt like I could do another one because I had that in my head. So.
Lisa (00:16:39): It's nice that she gave you that personal attention and that she had a couple of things that sounded like they helped you.
Alicia (00:16:45): Yeah, it helped a lot. So then—oh, yeah, because of your class we looked up doulas, and you had, like, a list of recommendations. So that's where we found Erica. So, Erica Simpson, amazing. So good. She's so sweet and, like, really just, I don't know, a very, like, calm, calm presence and, like, she just really knows her stuff. So she gave me a bunch of tips on, like, food to eat. So she, I know you mentioned dates, and I had already read that dates are good, I think. And she also recommended evening primrose oil and raspberry leaf tea, and like, why those are good. So I started, like, around week 37 I started going with those, because they said you don't want to start those too early, but around week 37 is good. And I think that helped a lot. The evening primrose oil definitely helped soften the cervix and the raspberry leaf tea. Maybe that's the other reason I was able to get through naturally. Because I've listened to some of your other interviews where they talk about how the contractions came on, like, so hard and fast. They couldn't take it. And I was, like, I don't know if mine were that bad. Like, I was able to get through it. So maybe it's just different.
Alicia (00:17:56): So that helped a lot. And then—okay, so then I can start the actual birth story. So a couple of weeks before, before the birth, it was, like, I think week 36 or 37, I started reading, like, they started reading high blood pressure in my—when I went in, and it was a little bit weird. Like, a lot of times I would go in and they would read it at the beginning and it would be high. But then when I was leaving it would be normal again. And a lot of times, like, you know, you get, you go to the doctor and you think you're gonna have to wait around for a while. But, like, for this one they were great, because they're very fast. But also it's, like, I'd literally be in the bathroom trying to pee in a cup and they would call my name, and I'm like, "This can't be good for my blood pressure." And then they, like, they're calling my name just to read the blood pressure. So.
Lisa (00:18:46): Oh, gosh. Yeah, that makes sense. The way you're describing it sounds almost like the "white coat syndrome" or just that you didn't have enough time to, like, come down from the activity of getting there to the office.
Alicia (00:19:02): So that's what I thought. Yeah, like, at first, but then after, like, it was, like, one of the last ones, they read it and it was, like, I guess much higher. So there was, like, no pretending that it wasn't high this time. So it was Friday, August 30th, must've been, that I went in and Dr. Lauren Elliston was there, and so she was checking everything and she also read the, she was, like, measuring the amniotic fluid and she said that that was, it was, like, just borderline, like, just about five, whatever that's supposed to be.
Lisa (00:19:39): Yeah. That's the, that's, like, the lowest that it should be to be in the healthy range.
Alicia (00:19:42): Yeah. So because of that and the high blood pressure, she, like, strongly recommended that I get induced that day. I was, like, I was so upset. I just, like, I held it together at the doctor's office and she saw it, but she saw my face and she was like, she was, like, "I'm sorry, like, I know what you wanted." And I was, like, "It's okay," like, "I trust you." She's really good. But it's funny, like, the way she said, "Sorry," she was, like, she's very—she knows what she's doing. So she's like, "This is not the worst situation." She's like, "I'm sorry," but, like, also, like, "Get over it. It'll be fine." It was funny.
Lisa (00:20:24): And how many weeks were you right now?
Alicia (00:20:26): So at that point I was 39 and a half weeks. Like, it was fine, like, I had originally imagined I would get induced for going over. I didn't think it would be early, so I had all my bags packed and everything, like, pretty much, so I was ready, but I just thought I would have another week. So it was, it was a lot to handle at once. And I walked out of the office, she told the hospital, like, "Be ready." So I got out of the appointment and I called Jarek and I just, like, couldn't even talk. I was so upset and I was, like, "Jarek, you need to come home." And he's, like, "Okay, I'll be home." And then I was still up on the Upper East Side, so I had to, like, get on the subway and go home.
Alicia (00:21:04): And he was, like, freaking out because he thought I was, like, having the baby. Like, I was very emotional. I couldn't describe how, "No, I'm just getting induced, like, it's fine." But I just sounded like I was about to go into labor, I guess. And I also called Erica the doula, just to keep her updated, and she said that I should call her back when we talked about everything and I was able to come up with a plan with her. So then I got home and Jarek was, like, asking what the doctor said and I told him and he's like, "Okay, well it sounds like, you know, it's not completely urgent, so we can take our time at home. Like, let's make sure we have everything packed and have a good meal and everything." So we ordered ramen and checked all the bags and stuff and then it was around nine o'clock that actually the doctor called me. Like, I was just about to call her and tell her what we were going to be doing, that we were getting ready to go to the hospital around then.
Alicia (00:22:02): And so she's like, "Okay, good. That's perfect. Yeah, that makes sense, like, making sure you're comfortable and relaxed." And so we also talked with the doula, with Erica, and we decided that she didn't need to come right away because it was probably going to be a long process. And I think we decided she would come to the hospital when I was, like, four minutes in between contractions. I think that was what we decided. It does get a little fuzzy, like, when you're trying to remember the details, like, I know this happened, but I don't remember exactly when. I was able to stay rational enough when talking with the doctor. She was, like, talking about the induction process and so she said we could start with Cervidil or just go right to Pitocin. But I was, like, I wanted to give her, like, as much time to, like, prepare to be born as possible. So I was, like, all right, I will start with the Cervidil. And so that's why I was going early. So I would do the Cervidil overnight. And then the next day they would start the Pitocin.
Lisa (00:23:07): And had she told you how dilated you were, and effaced?
Alicia (00:23:11): Yeah. So I think I was pretty well effaced. I think I was, like, 50% because of the—I think the evening primrose oil, like, I was pretty soft, but the dilation was only, like, half an inch. So it wasn't really anything. We were starting from zero. We got into the hospital, I think we got there at 10 o'clock. We took an Uber, like, an Uber black. Fancy. And I remember—we live way down, near Battery Park. And so it was very weird. It was, like, nighttime, but they had, I think it's the twin tower lights going up. So we, like, looked out the taxi and, like, the two lights are, like, going up in the sky and, like, it's a very clear, weird image to have, like, right before you're going into the hospital. Because it was, like, a week before 9/11 this year. We were also supposed to go to a house warming party that weekend, and Jarek wrote on Facebook that he's, like, "Oh guys, sorry, baby's being born this weekend and we won't be able to go." And so two of our friends, they saw this, they were, like, "Wait, are you guys having the baby now?" And, like, we told them what was happening and we were just, like, at the hospital for the first procedure, and they're, like, "Can we come visit?" I was like, "Yeah!" So Lenox Hill is nice because they let, like, as many people as you want come hang out with you.
Lisa (00:24:26): Really? Wow. That's unusual. We shouldn't advertise that. Maybe not public knowledge.
Alicia (00:24:34): They let, like, a reasonable amount of people come, like, as long—I think, it's family friendly. If you, if you're happy to see them there, then it's fine. So our two friends came at one o'clock. They came to the room and we were still up. We were just chilling and, like, there was, like, a Star Wars marathon going on on the TV, so we're just, like, watching TV and they came with a bunch of snacks and we just chilled for a bit.
Lisa (00:25:03): And maybe it's good to point out that probably because you were really early on in the induction and often with Cervidil things can take a while to get going and for things to get intense, that you were still maybe more in the mood for visitors than you might have been later on. Yes? Is that maybe true?
Alicia (00:25:19): Yeah, exactly. It's a good point. I was definitely, like, there wasn't—yeah, they actually put the Cervidil in at, like, midnight, so it was very early and there wasn't anything going on. In the morning—we did get to sleep a little bit. Jarek slept on their couch thing. They had just, like, an arm chair that folds into a bed, looked pretty comfortable. The next morning the contractions did start in the morning. The first few contractions, I didn't really feel too much, but the nurse was, like, taking my vitals on the monitor and she looked at the screen and she's, like, "Oh, there is a contraction." I was, like, "Oh, good," like, "It's starting already." But even though the Cervidil was working on its own, they still had to do Pitocin to speed it up. So painful. I'm not going to lie. And I did get to request the wireless monitoring, so I was able to move around a lot, which was good.
Lisa (00:26:16): Good. Yeah.
Alicia (00:26:17): So in the morning, I remember, I think it might've been around 11:00 AM the contractions started getting a little bit intense. It was just, like, some backaches. So Jarek was still there and he was just, like, doing the counter pressure on my back every time. And it was really helpful. And then around—a little bit after that, he went home to, like, feed our cat. And he also, yeah, he just, he went to, like, eat lunch and stuff. Oh, another tip. One of the things, I think you mentioned this before, if you have time before you go to the hospital to, like, bake something for the nurses. So I had asked the nurse navigator, like, what's really good to eat, like, bring? And she's just like, "Anything that's easy. So, like, candy is actually the best." So, and I was like, "Are cookies ok?" And she's, like, "Oh yeah, like, anything easy, like, no cake, you know, nothing you have to serve." So we made macaroons and, like, the nurses really liked them. They appreciated that a lot.
Lisa (00:27:20): Wonderful.
Alicia (00:27:20): Yeah. So they liked us, I think.
Lisa (00:27:23): And when Jarek left, was Erica there yet?
Alicia (00:27:26): Not yet. So it was just me for a little bit, but it wasn't, like, there wasn't that much pain yet, and, like, I was able to walk around, so I don't know. For me, I used to get really bad period cramps, so I'm pretty—and I know, like, I would take Advil sometimes, but a lot of times I would just survive on, like, those heat packs and trying to rest and stay hydrated.
Lisa (00:27:51): Did you bring heat with you to the—as part of your hospital bag?
Alicia (00:27:56): I did, but we didn't use it. We didn't have a microwave in the room, I don't think. So I just did—I don't know what I did while he was gone. I think I tried to rest and I was just watching TV to distract myself. I was just, I don't know what I was doing during that time. I think I was just walking around and, like, maybe I started—they have, they have, like, everything you need there. So they have, like, the exercise balls and the peanut balls.
Lisa (00:28:25): They have exercise balls and peanut balls for every single room, or just a few, a handful?
Alicia (00:28:30): I don't know if they have enough for every single room if everybody wants one at once, but they have a lot. So Jarek was basically allowed to bring me, like, a last meal. So I was literally, I think basically I was just sitting waiting for him to come back so I could eat before one o'clock. Because that's when they were starting the Pitocin. And then at this hospital they don't allow you to eat anything or drink anything, just ice chips. So because of that they also hook you up to the IV for fluids. And that was probably one of the most annoying things was, like, I did have a hemi pack in case they would be able to take it out. But they kept it in the whole time because they're worried about me having enough fluids because we're not allowed to drink anything. And just trying to move around with that, when you're trying to move around in labor, is a challenge. But we did it and I just, yeah, I just remember how annoying it was to, like, move around, because I'd be, like, throwing these wires around, and then I'd have to carry that thing to the bathroom and worry about getting it hooked on something. So annoying.
Lisa (00:29:35): At least you had wireless monitoring so there were at least a little bit fewer things to navigate.
Alicia (00:29:42): Except that that's just, yeah. Yeah, just a little bit.
Lisa (00:29:46): And did the wireless, like, stay on, or did they lose the tracing a lot?
Alicia (00:29:50): They would lose it a lot and have to come in and readjust it all the time.
Lisa (00:29:53): Were the nurses annoyed by that?
Alicia (00:29:55): I don't think so.
Lisa (00:29:58): That's good. A lot of nurses get so irritated with that.
Alicia (00:30:01): They might've been, I just thought nurses were annoyed all the time. I don't know. It was Labor Day weekend. So I wasn't expecting anybody to be in a great mood to have to deliver this baby with me. So I think it helps that, I think early afternoon Jarek's mom actually came, too, which was a little bit—I was not sure about that, but I'm not someone to turn away support. So even though I was like, "I'm not sure if I need more people, but okay." But she was helpful because at one point when I was, like—everything was really intense and she, like, saw that I needed a break from people—she's like, "Okay, I'll go back to your guys' apartment." And she fed our cats and she made more macaroons for the nurses.
Lisa (00:30:50): That sounds like very helpful things to be done.
Alicia (00:30:54): Very helpful. And yeah, I was, like, always worried about the cat. I was, like, "I hope she's okay. Thank you." Yeah, so one o'clock the doctor came in, she checked everything. I think I was still only, like, I was very effaced but not really dilated. So, like, it was still, like, maybe one inch when she measured. And so they started the Pitocin at, like, two. And just, like, every time the nurses would come back in the room and check my vitals, they would leave and turn it up a little bit and I was, like, "Wait, it's higher now?" And yeah, it's just, I think it's like, just hearing that word gives me a little bit of PTSD, because I hate it so much. My contractions were starting already, like, and for awhile I think the natural contractions were ahead of the Pitocin because I was able to get a little bit of that wave that you talked about, and so I could feel it and I had a little bit of the endorphins at the end. So I felt it. It was, like, really cool. Exactly what you said, like, I was able to deal with it on my own for a bit. Even, like, there was one time, like, I was in the bathroom and one hit and, like, I just, like, held on, you know, and I breathed through it and I came out and Jarek and his mom were, like, watching the monitor and they're, like, "Did you have a contraction in there?" Like, "We saw the thing, like, shoot up, like, are you okay?" And I was like, "It was very unpleasant, but you know, I've done difficult things before. So I was okay." And then I think around three or four is when they started really getting difficult to handle and Jarek was getting tired because he'd been doing a few hours of counter pressure and holding me and I was, like, sitting on the ball and, like, leaning on him or he would be at my back, like, pushing.
Alicia (00:32:39): So that's when we called Erica and asked her to come. And so she pretty much came and took over for Jarek and that was, I think around then where I was just, like—I lost all my inhibitions. I was, like, I need to be naked now. Like, no clothes, nothing. I just need to be in labor and I just didn't care what happened. It's amazing.
Lisa (00:33:07): That is one of the signposts of active labor. "I don't care any more!" Going into primal mode.
Alicia (00:33:16): Yeah. And someone tried asking me, like, a, like, a very mundane question about just, like that—I think I remember reading in Ina May's book about how labor is such, like—or maybe you talked about it, how it's such a physical thing, like, if you try and do anything mentally it takes away from your ability to handle it. And I was just like, "I can't have a conversation right now."
Lisa (00:33:35): Yeah. Those primitive hormones have to surge and you get out of that thinking brain, that neocortex for sure.
Alicia (00:33:42): Definitely need that. I don't know what's going on with her.
Lisa (00:33:49): Get used to this. This goes into toddler-dom and, like, tween-dom. Anytime you get on the phone with somebody, they need you. Inevitably.
Alicia (00:33:57): Is that for real?
Lisa (00:33:58): Totally, totally. She's just starting at a very young age.
Alicia (00:34:19): Yeah. I'm with you all the time, baby, all the time. It's not enough. Yeah. So I was in very active labor and it was just, like, that was where having Erica there was—for the rest of it, it was basically me going through the contractions and just, like—she's the one who really described to me what Pitocin was. She's like, "Describe your contractions, like, is it a wave or does it suddenly shoot up? And it's just, like, like, that's the pain wave, right? And I was like, "Yeah, it's that." And she's like, "That's the Pitocin." And just, like, knowing that I think helped me, so I could almost feel them coming and I would literally, like, grab onto her and just, like, I would, like, do, like, a low noise, like, the very vocal, like, "aaaaah," and then I would just keep doing it until she's, like, "All right, breathe, like, now it's time to breathe." I was, like, "Okay." I don't know. It was, it's so hard to remember to breathe during the contractions. Like, I know it's important, but you just, like—it's just, like, extra effort that you can't think about spending.
Lisa (00:35:20): Yeah. And when you're not in that brain space, to have somebody else there to just remind you of these things can be so helpful.
Alicia (00:35:26): Yeah. So from, like, three or four o'clock basically until three in the morning, like, that was our life, like, just me going through the contractions, making that low noise and, and I was still able to move around a lot. I think, like, I had to change positions all the time. Like, sometimes I would be better, like, sitting up a little bit, and the bed was nice, like, it moved in all different positions. Sometimes I would have to be on my side or on the ball and, like, going back and forth. That helped a lot. I remember, like, the feeling of having to push, but I don't know exactly what time it was. It might've been around midnight. But it was also, I think it was also just transition and I didn't really realize until then that, like, transition doesn't mean you can push yet. It's just, like, you want to push but you can't. And that's why it's hard, because...Like, one of the nurses scared me. She's like, "We can't let her push until she gets checked. Because then, like, we don't want her to tear through her cervix." I was like, "Ummm, is that a thing?"
Lisa (00:36:36): This is so common in hospitals. Like, in a home birth they'd be, like, "Okay, push." I mean they would probably want to, you know, do an internal exam, too, just to make sure. But it's so funny. Usually if your body is telling you you need to push and you're pretty well dilated, like, you're probably there.
Alicia (00:36:52): I think it was—maybe they didn't know I how dilated I was. Because the last time they had checked was probably, like, seven o'clock and I was only, like, three centimeters.
Lisa (00:37:06): Oh okay. Yeah. Well then I can see why. Okay.
Alicia (00:37:09): And I remember, because—I remember, like, them telling me, "Yeah, you're three centimeters." And I was, like, "Oh I've been doing this for, like, six hours. And that's it?" And they're, like, but they were very supportive. They're like, "But you were at one and now you're at three. You know, you've made progress." And I was, like, "Okay, if you guys say it's good, that's good, I guess."
Lisa (00:37:27): I don't think you've mentioned, have you? Have your, had your waters released or broken?
Alicia (00:37:30): No, they had not. You mentioned another thing you said in your classes, like, you told us this tiny little tidbit of the Dalai Lama has to be born with the water intact, and Jarek and I had looked at each other in the class and we were, like, "Huh." Like, "Let's try this."
Lisa (00:37:54): As if you can control that!
Alicia (00:37:57): No control whatsoever. But I did mention this to the doctor at one of the appointments—to Dr. Elliston specifically, and I was like, "Do you guys rupture the amniotic sac?" And she's, like, "Usually we do, because if it doesn't burst then at the end it, like, you know, explodes all over everybody." I was, like, "Okay, I understand why you wouldn't want that." So I just kind of accepted that they would probably do that, but she never did. And it didn't end up breaking until the very end .
Alicia (00:38:28): I've been reading other things where it's, like, the contractions after the water breaks are another story, like, they're a lot more intense. So maybe that's also why I was able to manage the whole thing without the epidural, because the water was intact until the end. But it was also, the water level was low. So I don't really know. I don't think there was a lot of cushion so I really have no idea. We'll find out with the next one in who knows how long. So a lot of times during my labor I was also, like, if I was on the bed I was just always watching her heart monitor and I was just, like, really proud of how, like, it was always steady, like, there were never any jumps and, like, I was always worried about that because, like, if you get induced, like—I wanted her to pick her time to come out and she didn't get to. So I was really worried about, like, her being stressed out, but she just went with it and so I kind of, I just treated it as a marathon, like, I didn't see the end but I knew, like, within a day everything would be done, right? Like, you know, logically it's not going to take more than 24 hours, so I could pretty much handle anything for that long and then, so she'll be there after.
Alicia (00:39:36): And, like, I had read books on, like, preparing for after and, like, your class helped us with, like, the newborn stuff. But there was that point in, I guess, the transition period where all of a sudden it really hits home that I'm about to be a mother. Like, I have to keep going and then I'll be a mother and then, I don't know, it was, like, a hump that I had, like, a mental hump that I had to get over. Like, I was suddenly quite scared of it. I don't know why it hadn't jumped at me before then, but it was like, we were having trouble, I think, getting her to descend, I guess, and, like, really open. But I just, like, started thinking about, like, why I wanted her, and, like, what we were going to do once she was born and when she was older. And I just started thinking about, like, bringing her on hikes or, like, walking around and showing her the world. And then at that point Jarek also suggested that we start doing some prayers, even though he's not a religious person at all. But he was like, "Maybe that's what's missing."
Alicia (00:40:37): And I forgot to mention that my older sister also came down, she lives up in Beacon, New York, because my parents were up in the Adirondacks with my younger sister. So they weren't even, like, anywhere near around even though, like, they told me they were going on this trip, and I was like, "You guys realize that's, like—the baby's due date, right?" So the only one in my close family who was around was my older sister and she came down and she was also, like, a really great calming presence, and she is a lot more, like, spiritual. She does a lot with her local church. So she just came over and we started saying Hail Mary's and, like, Our Father's and, I don't know, it was, like, I think it was, like, the last touch, like, we needed to kind of get through the end. Because after that I must've opened up a lot faster. And then maybe around sometime early in the morning, the doctor came in and she checked and she said I was technically nine centimeters, but because I was—my cervix was, like butter, she was like, "It's so soft you can push, I think," you know. And so I started trying to push mostly on my own at first and I was trying to do different positions, but I just remember I was really tired at that point. I was, like, so tired that there was a point around then that I was starting to think of getting the epidural. And Erica said she could see it in my face, like, I was, I was not comfortable and I was so tired. So I just, like, I asked her about it, like, I wanted to think about it and she's, like, "Well, yeah," like, "the epidural could let you sleep and rest a little bit," you know, like, she was so great. She just, like, made sure whatever I wanted was what I wanted. Like, it was very good.
Lisa (00:42:21): As a good doula should. Because it's your birth, not hers.
Alicia (00:42:26): She never imposed anything. She was always just, like, very supportive. And I don't know why I decided not to. I think around then they had checked, also, and I think I was at seven centimeters or something. It was like, something where I felt like I was close enough to the end that I was, like, I don't think an epidural will help now anyway. Or, like, I think, you know, I can get through the rest of it. And I was still—I had, I guess, just enough time in between to, like, not feel pain in between them. So I never had to ask in between. And I just had that little blurb in my head of, like, "Don't ask during the contractions." So I just held on for one more and one more. But I was really tired for the pushing stage, so I was trying to, like, hang on the back of the bed. But I'm, like, someone who has no upper body strength, like, ever. I don't know what it is. I tried doing pushups but it just doesn't work. So I—and, like, my husband is really tall, so that one move where you're, like, hanging on them, it doesn't really work for me because he's so tall and I'm, like, reaching up. I'm, like, "This is not helping me."
Lisa (00:43:40): Too much work for you. You needed something a little more restful.
Alicia (00:43:43): So I—they finally came in and they were, like, "Do you want—" or, I think Erica and the nurses were, like, "Do you want us to, like, show you a birthing position?" And I was, like, "Okay, like, I don't know what I'm doing." I accepted it, like, I really didn't—and so they did, like, I went on my back but then they had me, like, I think I held my knees and when I felt contraction coming I would—I think I had to breathe before then and then with no voice, no sound, like, just, like, hold my breath during it for, like, 10 seconds. I think that's how we did it. Because when you use your voice you're using energy but they want you to use all your energy for the pushing. I guess that's the theory behind it. And you, like, pretend you're, like, wrapping around a bowling ball and, like, pushing out. And it worked for me really well, actually. So yeah, I was, like, they, I guess they instructed me really well and I caught on because after that it didn't take, I feel—like, once I got that position it didn't take very long to get her out. I do remember at one point, I don't know what happened. It was during one push, I felt like she, like, hooked her leg around something, like, there was just, like, this tug inside me and I was, like, "I cannot do anything right now." And I had to, like, sit back, like, I don't know what it was.
Alicia (00:44:55): And then I had to, like, rally myself after that, because it was, like, "Oh God, I dont know what just happened." So for the next one I just, like, kept pushing. And fortunately I don't think anything was wrong, but I don't know what that was. It was, like, it literally felt like she, like, hooked a leg on some part of my body. Very, very unpleasant.
Lisa (00:45:15): How odd.
Alicia (00:45:16): Yeah, maybe it was, like, the umbilical cord, or... So then it was, like, right at the end, I think Jarek said that the doctor, she, like, got down, you know, she got ready and she—instead of bursting the sack, she got on, like, splash gear. So she was ready. Which I appreciate so much that she knew, like, I didn't want it ruptured. So she was just, like, ready. And then, because it wasn't that much fluid, it was just, like, a little puddle. So it was a little bit anticlimactic, like, there was no show. And they let me feel her crowning, which I didn't know was something I wanted, but it was a very, very cool experience. And after that, looking back, I probably should have, you know, got, like, worked with them a little bit more to, like, ease her out. But I just, like, thought back to, like—I used to take TaeKwonDo and when you break a board you just yell and push on through. So that's kind of what I did. Jarek says it was, I just, like, yelled like he'd never heard and...oh, he just got back. Yeah.
Lisa (00:46:19): He's welcome to jump in if he'd like to.
Alicia (00:46:24): Do you want to jump in? So it's funny that I'm right at the part where he says he only just got this out of his memory.
Lisa (00:46:33): He might not want to go back there.
Alicia (00:46:38): It was a very loud scream, and I almost feel bad for how very loud...but she got out and so apparently the umbilical cord was wrapped, like, all around her body. So the doctor had to, like, quick catch her and, like, move her around and pull her out and then they put her right on my chest and they were, like, "It's a girl!" I just looked at her, I was, like, "Oh really? You're not who I thought you were going to be!" But I looked up and Jarek was right there and, like, he was really happy because he wanted a girl and I was, like, "Yay!" And then she just, like, pooped all over me. It was just, like, pfffff! And I was, like, well now we know where the amniotic fluid went. You ate it all, and you pooped it out on me. I'm just glad she waited till after she got out to do that.
Lisa (00:47:29): Yes, indeed.
Alicia (00:47:29): So yeah. Then she was out and she was really small, actually. Like, she was the normal length, like, 19 and a half inches, but she was only five pounds and 10 ounces, like, very little.
Lisa (00:47:40): Yeah, that's pretty itty bitty.
Alicia (00:47:42): Yeah. And so they had to put her under the warmer for a little bit. They did do the delayed cord clamping, but I think it was, like, three minutes.
Lisa (00:47:50): Yeah, that's usually the maximum that they'll do in a hospital.
Alicia (00:47:53): Yeah. I was listening to one of your other recordings that they said they left on for, like, 45 minutes. I was, like, "Really?" But that was at home, I don't know. Maybe it was a birth center.
Lisa (00:48:03): It was most likely either a birthing center or home birth. Yeah.
Alicia (00:48:05): Yeah. One thing I forgot to mention: the doctor, she said that the high blood pressure might've been because the placenta can, like, push up against arteries, or it can affect blood flow at the end. So she said that might've been it, and originally we were gonna try keeping the placenta and doing the encapsulation thing, but we never got our act together enough. And, like, at the end I was, like, "I don't even really want it. If it's the reason that I had to get induced."
Lisa (00:48:33): Get it away from me!
Alicia (00:48:36): Yes, we were supposed to, like—we originally, it's, like, if you get there, you have to request a private room when you arrive, I think. And we just for some reason never got around to doing that. So we ended up in a shared room, but I got the nicer space. Like, it was, like, the window side. So for me it was fine. But the other person in the room, I think they had a tougher time because they were, like, in the middle. And actually they were at the same practice. So literally, like, right after the doctor delivered my baby, she had to run over to them. So yeah. So then it was 3:14 in the morning on September 1st that she was born and I was just, like, super happy because I was, like, "She's a pie baby!" Like, 3.14. And we're a little nerdy. So I was, like, so happy about that. And I just also remember, like, right after the birth I was, like, "I did it!" And I was just, like, I kept saying to Erica, I was, like, "I did it! I did the whole thing without the epidural!" And I was, I was so proud of myself. I just felt so happy and, like, it was great. I just, like, felt, I felt so good.
Lisa (00:49:48): And so that was about what, like, 27 hours from the time that they started the Cervidil?
Alicia (00:49:59): It was 22...oh yeah, no, you're right. 27 because it was midnight. Yeah. Midnight. Yeah. 27 hours. I've been doing the math wrong.
Lisa (00:50:11): Easy to do when you're sleep deprived.
Alicia (00:50:13): Yeah, 27 hours.
Lisa (00:50:14): That's, yeah, that's about an average length for an induction. So yeah. Yeah. But that's a long time to have to labor, especially with no pain meds. So yay, you! That's amazing.
Alicia (00:50:27): Yeah. It was good. And then, I could talk a little bit about the recovery room if you want.
Lisa (00:50:32): Yeah, go right ahead.
Alicia (00:50:33): So they wheeled me in there, but, like, I had read a lot of reviews for hospitals in New York City and, like, for almost every one of them it was, like, "Labor is great and the recovery, like, afterwards you get abandoned." And so I was kind of ready for this, but, like, it was also Labor Day weekend. So the nurses who were there were all just, like, probably a little grumpier, but I just, like, made sure that I was extra polite to them and, like, really nice. They were fine with me. Erica I think helped her to breastfeed right after. She, like, showed me how to hold her and someone else did, too. One of the nurses helped show me how to breastfeed. And fortunately she latched pretty well from the start. There was on one side, I don't know, like, she did latch wrong on one side and, like, I don't know, there was, like, a little purple mark after that. It was, like, my only indication—physical indication that something was wrong. But, like, it also just, like, hurt a lot more on that side for, like, a week. I don't know what that was, but the other side was fine and my supply came in. I already had the colostrum I think for a couple of days. And then I think on the third day when I was home was, like, when the milk came in. I just remember my aunt being like, she was, like, reminiscing about her babies and she's like, "When it comes in, like, just let me know, like, I wanna, like, like, it's like bowling balls!" And I'm like, "Oh my God." I was, like, I could've had twins and been fine.
Lisa (00:52:00): Did you have some engorgement?
Alicia (00:52:04): Yeah. Yeah. And it was harder to get her to latch when it was like that, too. She would get frustrated.
Lisa (00:52:12): Did you have any tricks, like, expressing any milk before you brought her onto the breast or anything that helped with that?
Alicia (00:52:19): I think I tried expressing a little bit. I would also just try and get her on often so that before it got too engorged I would offer it to her. Or I would just be really stubborn and be, like, "Come on."
Lisa (00:52:33): And did you feel any emotional challenges, like, baby blues kind of stuff right around that time at all?
Alicia (00:52:38): I didn't have baby blues. I was still, like, I think I had so many endorphins going through afterwards, I felt pretty great, like, mentally and emotionally. I do remember the first morning being home and looking at her and just being, like, I was a little bit detached, like, I was very sleep deprived and I was just, like, "I don't know how I'm going to take care of this little thing," like, I didn't feel the connection at that moment, like, right yet.
Lisa (00:53:09): And that's the thing, I'm glad you're mentioning that because a lot of people don't realize going into parenthood that you don't always feel that attachment right away. And that's another version of normal.
Alicia (00:53:20): Yeah, I'd read that it was okay to be like that. So I'm glad I read so much. But it is weird to, like, yeah, to feel it. It's a little scary because, I don't know. And, like, she cried a lot. They all cry a lot, but it was difficult because my husband, he was amazing, but he did not read as much about taking care of the baby right after. And so he was worried about every little thing. So it was hard for me to rest because, like, I would literally try and get a 20 minute nap and she would start, like, making any kind of noise and he'd be, like, "You have to feed her." And I'd be like, "I just fed her, like, please give me a minute, please." You know, I don't know. I don't think, I don't think I showered for about five days after that because—no time for anything.
Alicia (00:54:10): And she did cluster feed a lot at first. So I was, like, yeah, she might actually be hungry every time she was, like, doing that, the rooting. Every time she rooted I was, like, "She might be hungry because she's cluster feeding." So I just, like, went with it. But it was so hard the first couple days. I was exhausted.
Lisa (00:54:30): It feels like the baby is never not on your boob. Right?
Alicia (00:54:35): Yeah, I feel, like, and I remember, like, the fourth day...we play a lot of video games. So there's one, it's a Zelda game and it's, like, a time thing and so there's only three days and then if you make it through the game, I think you get to the fourth day and it's, like, you survived. So it was, like, Thursday morning. I just remember we woke up and, like, we had gotten over the hump of being home and Jarek just, like, looks at me. He's, like, "Bump, bump...Dawn of the fourth day!" And I just, like, cracked up.
Lisa (00:55:01): That's hilarious.
Alicia (00:55:05): It was so perfect because it really felt like the sun was up again and we survived and she's still alive.
Lisa (00:55:19): You're like, "Yes!"
Alicia (00:55:20): Yeah. And I could talk about the cloth diapers, too, because I had, like, a supply of diapers from the hospital and I had also gotten some, like, eco-friendly ones, but I'm still going through them really fast and I was, like, she goes through diapers like you wouldn't believe. And I was like, "I'm going to—"I had bought everything ahead of time to be ready to, like, you know, really make sure I did cloth diapering. I wanted to commit. So I had the diapers and I was going with pre-folds, but I had a mix of a couple of other choices to see what I liked. I had the covers, the cloth diaper wipes, and wipe cream and everything. And it was Wednesday morning where I was, like, looking at my supply of disposable diapers and I'm like, "It's time to try the cloth things. It can't be that hard," even though she's so teeny weeny, like, I still don't know how I did it, like, how I folded them to get them on her when she was that tiny. But somehow I did and I don't think she liked it very much. I felt really bad. She would cry during every diaper change and I was, like, "Is it because of the cloth diapers? I'm not giving up on this. Sorry to make you suffer."
Lisa (00:56:28): Almost every single newborn hates having their diaper changed. So it's likely that it had nothing to do with the kind of diaper you were using.
Alicia (00:56:36): Good. I'm glad to hear that because it was important to me for environmental reasons. One of the reasons I was, like, I was never really...I know I had hesitations about having babies, because I was, like, someone told me, I forget how many pounds, it's, like, 2000 diapers per person. Right? And it's, like, basically the diapers that my parents used on me are still sitting in a landfill somewhere 30 years later, 30 whatever. And I just—that, it's like an image in my head that I can never—it just grosses me out. So I looked up diaper services in the city and there's just one, there's one in Brooklyn and I think there's another one now in Queens?
Lisa (00:57:16): Out on Long Island.
Alicia (00:57:16): On Long Island. So, Diaper Kind is great. They have workshops and they have everything on their website and they sell, like, all different products. And so I went to one of their workshops over the summer and, like, I got to practice putting a cloth diaper on a baby and they had all the different kinds. And we did consider using the service, but we live in a studio apartment and we don't have what Jarek called a "stink room." So, and we didn't know how good their diaper pail would be. It turns out it's fantastic. So the problem with the diaper services, like, you had to hold these diapers somewhere for a week and Jarek was, like, not okay with that, and we couldn't find any place in the building that was okay. Like, I think, like, we tried asking with the doorman if they might've been okay with it, but we have laundry on the same floor. So I was, like, I'll just try washing them myself for a while and it worked out fine. I just, I don't know, it's easy. And I iron them, too, like, I think that helps kill any bacteria. So they never have any weird post smells.
Alicia (00:58:25): Do you have a certain sprayer that you use?
Alicia (00:58:28): So right now she's still just on breast milk. So, one of the things they mentioned at Diaper Kind was because the poop is still liquid right now, you just throw it in and it just—you don't have to spray anything off yet.
Lisa (00:58:42): Okay.
Alicia (00:58:42): So right now it's still early. We're not going on solids yet, but they said you can just plunk the solid into the toilet and then you wash the rest. So, and I remember, I had babysat for one of my friends who used cloth diapers and that was what she did. And she didn't have a Diaper Spire. She would just "plunk" and put it in the Diaper Genie, whatever.
Lisa (00:59:05): Yeah. And did you have any favorite resources as you were kind of exploring this option for cloth diapering besides the Diaper Kind class? Were there any books or Facebook groups or anything like that that you found helpful?
Alicia (00:59:19): Not specifically. I would go on YouTube and watch, like, videos. There's, like, a lot of moms on YouTube who have done little tutorials on how to do the different folds. So that's really what it—I just, like, looked those up and whatever one had the most, like, views, I figured it was a good one.
Lisa (00:59:36): Okay, that's helpful. Thanks. The final thing I would just ask you is if you have any specific pieces of wisdom or tips for expecting parents who might be listening?
Alicia (00:59:47): Right. I think to remember that, like, it helps me to think of birth as, like, a natural process, and that to kind of bring the magic back into birth, like, it's a powerful moment for women. It should be celebrated. And I think I agreed with one thing I read that was, like, I think this is also on your website, like, I read. But you're like, "We spend so much preparing for a wedding, like, thousands of dollars. And you should maybe think about preparing for the birth of your child in a similar way, like, be ready to celebrate it, like, at the moment." And I think that helped me think of it in a positive way and just get through everything.
Lisa (01:00:30): Great. That's beautiful. Thank you so much Alicia. This has been lovely to get to hear more details than I had heard before. Oh, I just...I wanted to, if you will permit me to read a little, just a blurb from what you sent me when you first had the baby and then you can tell me if you want me to edit it out once you hear it. So you said, "I think God got me through the rest of it because there were moments where I was just scared and wanted to cancel the whole thing, but somehow kept going." And I just, I just got a good laugh about the "wanted to cancel the whole thing."
Alicia (01:01:10): That is how I felt. I remember that now.
Lisa (01:01:14): But you didn't cancel the whole thing. Not that you could have.
Alicia (01:01:19): I couldn't. Like, you can't. There is no cancel.
Lisa (01:01:24): I love that. But you had the support you needed, you found the fortitude inside yourself and yeah. And it sounded like some of your faith in a higher power also kind of got you through. Yeah?
Alicia (01:01:35): I think I, yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, God definitely was there for, especially towards the end, because it was very, very intense. So you get through that. I forgot to mention also—or just, like, my other advice is just, if you're thinking of having a baby, start planning financially now for a doula because they're amazing.
Lisa (01:01:57): Yes. Yeah. And also to be aware that, at least in New York City, there are so many doulas, and there are doulas who have, you know, just recently gone through their training and to my thinking, they still have a lot of expertise even though they're not as experienced as the more expensive doulas, but you know, so that it's, it shouldn't ever be outside someone's budget.
Alicia (01:02:20): Yeah.
Lisa (01:02:20): Because there are some options that you can explore and your childbirth educator can help you find somebody.
Alicia (01:02:27): Exactly. Yeah. I think that's a good point. Because literally I think having anybody who knew what to do, even if they were not as, you know, experienced years-wise, would have been equally helpful.
Lisa (01:02:40): But that's a great tip. Yes. Start saving up for the doula. I mean, you know, the more experience, the better, ideally, if you can afford, if you have saved up.
Alicia (01:02:48): Yeah.
Lisa (01:02:50): Great tip. Thank you so much. All right. Well thank you again, Alicia. It's been great talking with you and wish you well on your continued parenting journey and hope to see you at a future reunion thing.
Alicia (01:03:00): Thanks.
Lisa (01:03:02): So that’s Alicia’s 1st baby’s birth story. I have to say that my Star Wars-fan family just loved the references; especially the quasi-Yoda quote! Alicia mentioned trying red raspberry leaf tea and evening primrose oil. While we really don’t have much solid clinical evidence on the efficacy of these two things, many folks swear by them. I’ll talk about them briefly, and will also link to some information on these things on the show notes over at birthmattershow.com. Red Raspberry leaf tea is thought to be a uterine tonic. It’s been recommended for women’s health in traditional medicine for literally hundreds of years. Many women drink the tea in pregnancy and especially in the third trimester, as a way to possibly help strengthen the uterus, go into labor sooner, and perhaps have a shorter labor. Evening Primrose Oil is a prostaglandin. Prostaglandins are a hormone-like fatty acid our own bodies create to ripen the cervix and get it ready to soften and open for birth. So, the thought is that EPO might help ripen the cervix. Most people use it as a vaginal suppository, but using it this way could possibly increase the risk of premature rupture of the membranes, which is also known as the waters breaking before contractions start. Because we don’t want that to happen if it doesn’t have to due to the small risk of infection, it’s more recommended to take EPO orally instead, as it should have the same benefit to potentially ripening the cervix without that possible risk. If you click the links to the Evidence Based Birth report on Red Raspberry Leaf Tea and Evening Primrose Oil in this episode’s show notes over at birthmattersshow.com, you’ll see details on the very little amount of research done in this area. The few studies that have been done were not really quality enough to prove efficacy or contraindication. We really need more data, but I do want to point out that these things MIGHT be helpful, and even if they're not, the placebo effect can certainly be valuable. Okay, here’s a sneak peek of what’s up next week!
Speaker 4 (01:05:05): I mean, I guess my, my tips for expectant fathers or new fathers would be to just be flexible and maybe roll with it even more than you think you need to. Because something will come up, or you won't have as much food around, or you're not being as supportive as you need to be. And it's not because you're not trying, but it's just because it's a brand new thing for everyone, including you. So there's a steep learning curve, so it requires a bit of flexibility but also sort of an awareness of, you know, every minute and every hour something could be going on. So just be prepared to run out, like Jess said, at four in the morning for a random nipple guard. Out here we have a 24 hour grocery store. So, you know, a lot of times I'd run out at, like, 11 or midnight and get frozen foods or something quick because we didn't have anything and that was already my fault. So yeah, just to just be flexible and, you know, not say no to what might seem ridiculous. I think me learning to say no less, or not at all, especially in those first few weeks, was really helpful.
Lisa (01:06:09): See you next week, and remember the nurse’s quasi-modified Yoda quote: “You’re just gonna do it; there is no try.” Thanks for listening to the Birth Matters Pocast. And be well.---END---
