Today we have part 2 of Dee’s & Sam’s 2 birth stories. They’ll share about an even more premature birth of their second daughter, Luna. Due to the identification of an intra-uterine hemorrhage in late pregnancy, the decision is made to induce several weeks before the due date. Hear Dee share how surprised she was that she was able to cope with her induced labor without requesting the epidural, which was something she never thought she’d be able to do. She’ll also share how the use of a squatting bar helped her in the pushing stage and will detail the amazing sense of euphoria she had when her daughter was born. Then Dee & Sam will reflect on Luna’s 2-week stay in the NICU as well as provide some tips on staying flexible in labor and birth. Finally, they’ll discuss the special friendship they made in birth class and how having the support of friends has been essential, particularly during the NICU stay when they had another little one at home.
Episode Topics:
Testing positive for K-B test, admission to hospital prematurely
Administering steroids to help baby’s lungs develop
Pitocin & foley balloon for induction
Anesthesiologist coming in to get sign off on epidural, acting like it will be a cesarean
Artificially Rupturing the Membranes (AROM) at around 5cm
Quick progress from there
Using squatting bar
Pushing & birth of Luna, euphoric high
Luna goes to NICU for 2 weeks (due to being premature and lungs not being fully developed)
They get the news that the placenta was hemorrhaging; feeling like they were that much more fortunate in the expert care they received
Tips for staying flexible in labor/birth & for having a newborn in the NICU
Friendship made in birth class
Resources:
Happiest Baby on the Block* (you’ll learn about the “5 S’s” from this if you take birth class)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Transcript:
Lisa: 00:00
You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 22.
Dee: 00:03
Labor really started getting intense and the nurse, bless her heart, asked me if I wanted the bar up on the bed. And I thought, "Yeah, sure like, yeah, let's do it." And then so I was sitting, sort of cross legged...
Sam: 00:19
You were in like a sumo squat.
Dee: 00:20
Yes, I was like, yes—and I was holding onto that bar for dear life. And let me tell you something: that made a huge difference in my ability to get through these contractions. And every time I went through the contraction, I remember something else that you said, which is like, "Pain with purpose. Pain with purpose. I'm not dying. I'm giving life. I'm giving birth."
Lisa: 00:50
Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. Have you subscribed to the show yet? Please be sure to do that wherever you're listening to this or over at birthmattersshow.com so you don't miss out on anything.
Lisa: 01:29
Before we get started, if you'd like to receive your free Pack for Your Best Birth checklist and my free mini course with some expert tips for your best birth, please visit birthmattersonline.com/pack, which you can also find linked in the show notes. Today we have Part two of Dee's and Sam's two birth stories. They'll share about an even more premature birth of their second daughter, Luna. Due to the identification of an intrauterine hemorrhage in late pregnancy, the decision is made to induce several weeks before the due date. Hear Dee share how surprised she was that she was able to cope with her induced labor without requesting the epidural, which was something she never thought she'd be able to do. She'll also share how the use of a squatting bar helped her in the pushing stage and will detail the amazing sense of euphoria she had when her daughter was born. Then Dee and Sam will reflect on Luna's two-week stay in the NICU, as well as provide some tips on staying flexible in labor and birth. Finally, they'll discuss the special friendship they made in birth class, and how having the support of friends has been essential, particularly during the NICU stay when they had another little one at home. Now let's jump in where we left off last week.
Dee: 02:40
So just a quick touch-base about my pregnancy with Luna—was completely and utterly different from Emma's. It was very, very difficult. I had a host of issues, and, you know, there really was no explanation for the differences in their pregnancies, other than it just was a different pregnancy. I had just additional diabetes. I had to stop drinking and eating all caffeine, because her heart beat was a regular,
Sam: 03:09
Which we had checked out, and they—we went to a cardiologist and they were—they said she was fine, but they did ask that she stopped drinking caffeine.
Dee: 03:19
I had, separately, just like an inflammation of the sacral...
Dee: 03:25
SI joint.
Dee: 03:25
SI joint, I went to PT for that. It was just on and on and on. I think there were like two or three other things. But the point is that I had to stop work about eight weeks early because it was impossible from—just, commuting was so hard, and I had to start giving myself insulin. I just felt very defeated in that pregnancy, very defeated. And I knew that Luna was struggling because there were different things that kept happening. I increased fluid. So once I stopped working, I was going in once or twice a week to get checked to see how the fluid was doing. And one of the last times I went in, they were doing the monitoring, the fetal monitoring, after seeing that the fluid was increasing, and they noticed her heartbeat was dropping. And I was a little bit before 35 weeks at this point. And so they asked me to go to the hospital for further monitoring, and I just, like, knew. I knew what that meant. I just felt like, "It's gonna happen. I'm gonna have this baby." And luckily, because of the Emma story, I packed my bag about two months before I was due because I was not gonna be stuck not having a hospital bag, which was only about four things anyway. You know, two of them being the hot water bottle—my Aquaphor and my water bottle.
Dee: 04:42
So, you know, I went to the hospital, they had tested me for something. It was just called a K-B test, and I tested positive for it, which is rare. And basically what that says is that there's a maternal fetal blood exchange, and they couldn't understand where that exchange was happening—whether it was coming from, blood coming from her, or if it was from the placenta or something, they couldn't tell. So they decided to admit me overnight. They said the words that I never expected to hear, which was that they might have to do an emergency C section, and I just never thought that was a possibility. So I was really...I was really upset.
Dee: 05:24
And, you know, I'm again grateful for this hospital staff. The doctors at Columbia, they knew how important it was for me to have a natural birth and more so I wanted to labor again. I wanted to labor with Sam. I wanted to do this with him because I felt like I got a little bit cheated last time. I wanted to start the labor out with him and go through it together again with Erica, who signed on to be our doula again. And to have a C section just felt like I wasn't gonna get that opportunity again. So they admitted me. The next day they retested me again, to see if it was a false positive. And it wasn't. It was a positive. And it was—the numbers were higher.
Dee: 06:06
So the next step was to see whether or not the blood was coming from her. And if it was then we were gonna have to do a C section. They did a sonogram. The doctor at the time said to me he was like, "I'm really, really happy to tell you that we don't have to do the C section right now. We can see if she'll sustain labor, and we're looking at a natural birth. Like, we're looking at, you know, not having a C section. So that's really great news." And I just—he was so excited to tell me that. I thought, "Thank you so much for being just as excited as I am to the possibility of us having a natural birth."
Dee: 06:43
And at this point, you know, I want to remind you that I have never been a person that said that I could do a natural birth—meaning unmedicated—because I just never thought that was possible for me. I just truly, no matter how many classes I went to or what training I went to, went through, I just never, I just didn't think I was that kind of person. I didn't think that I could tolerate pain well, and so I just never made that an option for me. I just thought, "Well, I'll go as far as I can without having an epidural. Then whenever I really need the epidural, I'll get it. So they gave me Pitocin to start the labor because they didn't know—I had asked the question, "If I leave the hospital right now, what are the risks?" And they said, "Because you're testing positive for this K-B test, we don't know if you're having a hemorrhage or not, if you're hemorrhaging or not. So if you leave, that's the risk, and we wouldn't want you to hemorrhage and lose the baby. You know, you're at 35 weeks, she looks healthy enough. We're gonna give you steroid shots for her lungs, and, you know, we're gonna deliver the baby. So they gave me Pitocin, and she did really well, you know, through the Pitocin test. And so we started labor, and they gave me—Oh, so let me say this. So they gave me Pitocin—or did they give me the balloon first?
Sam: 08:10
They gave you the Pitocin. They had you pretty cranked on the Pitocin. I remember they were shocked that they had her almost maxed out on the Pitocin, and she was like, taking a nap.
Dee: 08:19
I was totally taking a nap.
Sam: 08:22
The nurse walked in, and she's like, "What is happening?" They're like, looking at the dose and you were dead asleep.
Dee: 08:28
I was asleep. And then they did the Foley balloon, which I was really excited about, because I just—like they put the Foley balloon in.
Sam: 08:38
You were excited on, like, a sarcastic level or, you were excited?
Dee: 08:40
No, I was excited that they didn't give me the Cervidil. I don't know. I just wanted the least amount of, like, medical intervention as possible. So it was like the Pitocin and the cervix pill or whatever. Anyway.
Sam: 08:52
The gel and stuff, yeah.
Dee: 08:53
Yeah. So they put in the balloon and that was really interesting.
Sam: 08:58
The balloon dilates you, for people who don't know what that is.
Dee: 09:02
Yes, because I wasn't, you know, my body wasn't ready to birth...
Sam: 09:06
But only to a certain extent. What, Lisa, do you get, like, four centimeters from that?
Lisa: 09:13
Yeah, usually it falls at, like, three or four centimeters.
Dee: 09:16
Yeah. So it was a combination of Pitocin and the Foley balloon, and this was a Saturday night. And so Sam and I were there, and I remember a friend of mine texting and saying, "You know that tonight is the blue harvest moon. It's the full blue harvest moon tonight." And we had already picked out Luna's name. You know, Luna means "moon." And so we just felt very like overwhelmed with emotion.
Sam: 09:43
I was, like, on another level, spiritually when I heard that, I was like, "This is it!"
Dee: 09:46
Yes. And so we were like, "Oh, my God, we're having our little moon baby on a blue—a rare blue harvest moon. And we just sort of knew like things were gonna be okay. I don't know, it just became like this like, this like baseline for how the next, like, 12 hours went. So that was Saturday night. I was continuing to progress my labor. And Erica showed up on Sunday morning, like 8 or 9 AM. I ate, you know, had a nice, like egg and cheese and had some coffee, I think.
Sam: 10:18
We slept pretty well that night, I think, all around.
Dee: 10:18
Yeah.
Sam: 10:21
Like that was pretty huge, like, that we went into it pretty well rested.
Dee: 10:25
Yeah, and then we—so when Erica got there, you know, the labor, the contractions were I mean, they were happening. They were intense. But something about these contractions were different from felt different from Emma, whether or not it was because she was not sunny side up, Luna, I don't know. I'll never know. But all I know is that I was just kind of looking at each contraction as like," I'm going to get through this one contraction. And then I'll think about the next contraction when it comes." And, you know, from very early on, the nurses were like, "Do you want an epidural? Are you ready for the epidural? Are you ready for the epidural?" In fact—the anesthesiology department, right?—they came, like this guy came to talk to me about my epidural whenever I went in for my C section and I we sort of looked at each other. And I said, "Do you know something that we don't? Because..."
Sam: 11:22
Well, no. I mean, he said, he was also very much like, "Are you ready for the epidural? Go ahead." A little...
Dee: 11:30
Presumptuous.
Sam: 11:30
Presumptuous. And then he said—this was just, like, so bad—he goes, "Okay, I'll see you in the ...
Sam: 11:38
O.R.
Sam: 11:38
He goes the next time I'll see you will be in the O.R. He goes, "I'll see you there." And we were like, "Excuse me!?" I immediately called in the nurse to be like, "Are you guys planning something that we're not aware of? Like, because to me, that sounds like 'We're gonna do—we are—we know that you're getting a C section,'" you know, and they're like, "No, no, that that's—" they kind of clowned on him. They were just like, you know, "He has bad bedside manner," and it just really wasn't cool.
Dee: 12:06
Yeah, it was sort of again, like I said, all these little moments sort of played a role in the end of what happens. So, you know, he came in and was, you know, presumptuous about us getting, you know, a C section or an epidural. And I was really mad about that. And then, you know, the nurses kept asking me if, like, I want the epidural, do I want the epidural. At one point, Erica said, you know, "We're gonna let you know we want the epidural. Like, just don't ask her anymore." And again, I had no intention of not having the epidural. I just was like, "Well, I'm gonna go as far as I can." I knew that Luna needed to come out. I knew that it was, you know, I didn't want to delay it any further because my water had broken. Oh, they broke my water. They broke my water at like 2 PM on Sunday. They broke my water, which was—wow—that was really aggressive. It was really, yeah, it was aggressive. But, you know, they broke my water, and the doctor at the time was like, she said, "Anything could happen at this point. This is your second baby. Your baby could come in an hour. Baby could come in 10. We don't know, you know, we'll just kind of watch.
Lisa: 13:15
Do you know how far dilated you were when they broke your water?
Dee: 13:18
When they broke my water, I believe it was like seven.
Sam: 13:22
Were you that far along?
Dee: 13:24
Maybe not.
Sam: 13:24
Because I think you—because I think I remember being really impressed that you—because things, as you'll get into, went very quick after that. And I think you went from, like, five to fully dilated.
Dee: 13:34
Yeah. Yeah, I think it was about 5 centimeters they broke my water. And then, so it was about two o'clock. And then that's when the labor really started, like getting intense. And the nurse, bless her heart, asked me if I wanted the bar up on the bed, and I thought, "Yeah, sure like, yeah, let's do it." And then so I was sitting sort of cross legged...
Sam: 13:58
You were in like a sumo squat.
Dee: 13:59
Yes, I was, yes, yeah, I started out cross legged and I was holding on to the bar, and then they lowered the bottom half of the bed just a few inches so that I was able to sit with my legs like in a squat, and I was holding onto that bar for dear life. And let me tell you something, that made a huge difference in my ability to get through these contractions. And every time I went through the contraction, I remember something else that you said, which is, like "Pain with purpose. Pain with purpose." I'm not dying. I'm giving life. I'm giving birth. And another critical piece to this puzzle was that Erica, in moments when I immediately would have said, "I can't do this anymore, I have to get an epidural," she would say to me things like, "You're supposed to feel like you're gonna throw up, because that's your body getting ready to give birth. It's the oxytocin. It's the hormones. You're supposed to feel lightheaded, like you're gonna pass out. Those are hormones. You're okay. You're gonna be fine." She was so eerily calm that I knew I was okay.
Dee: 15:02
And so every single time I was going through those contractions, I just kept breathing really deep and blowing out. And I just kept thinking about like "I can do one more contraction. I can do one more contraction." And pretty quickly, I remember Erica saying to me, "If you feel like you have to poop, let me know." And I thought, "What? What does that mean? Like, okay." And quickly. Thereafter, maybe five minutes after I said to her, "Erica! Erica! I feel like I have to poop," and I just thought it was like a code word for like, "Okay, now we're gonna get the epidural." And so I said to her, I was like, "Erica!" I was like, "I think I have to poop." And I was still in that sumo, you know, position with the bar up and holding on. And I remember Sam and Erica sort of being in shock that I was going through these contractions and, they were just like, "Yeah! This is amazing!" And you know, it was getting me excited. I was like, "I don't know what's happening to me. Like, I just, like, I'm having a great time!" I can't even—I can't even explain it.
Dee: 16:12
And so I said to her, I was like, "Erica, I have to poop. I have to poop." And she's like, "Okay," she's like, "You might want to push. I mean, it might help you feel better if you pushed." And again, I still didn't put two and two together to think that like, "Oh, no, this is now transition. This is now when I'm going to give birth." And I started to push in that sumo position, and it did help. And then I could feel, you know, I didn't have an epidural. I could feel everything. I knew. I felt her head was right there. And I started to freak out. And I immediately—I went straight back on the bed. I grabbed on to the bed rail, my legs were closed shut, tight, tight, tight. And I'm squeezing them so hard, because I couldn't believe that I had gotten to the point where I was about to birth the baby without an epidural. And so I remember Sam, like, kind of looking at us like "What's happening? What are we doing? What's the next step here? Like she's about to have the baby!" and I kept saying, "She's coming! She's coming! She's coming! You guys, she's coming!"
Dee: 17:17
And Erica didn't break a sweat. She just said, "Mmm-hmm. You're doing great." And I was like, "I can't do this! I can't do this!" And she just said, "Honey, but you're already doing it. You're already doing it." And just like, looking at me, and I just was about an inch from her eyes, because I knew that she was gonna remind me that I wasn't gonna die, that's all. I kept thinking like, "I'm not going to die. This is, like, me giving birth. I'm birthing a baby." And at one point, Sam kind of like, looked at her like, "Should we get the doctor? What's happening here?" And she was, like, "Sure, after this contraction if you wanted to get the doctor."
Sam: 00:00
They hadn't checked you since they broke your water.
Dee: 17:56
Yes, they hadn't checked me since they broke my water. So the doctor came in sort of like, you know, slowly.
Sam: 18:02
It happened so fast.
Dee: 18:02
Yes, it happened so fast. I started screaming to her and I was like, "The baby's here! The baby's here! Her head is here! She's coming! She's coming!" I know, sweetie, we're talking about you.
Sam: 18:07
Here, let me take her.
Dee: 18:07
And the nurse, I mean the doctor, sort of spread my legs open and was like, "Oh, we're having a baby." And Dr. Miller is this—the attending—came over to me, and I just loved this, his whole spirit about it. He came over to me, and he said to Erica, “Excuse me for one second," and Erica kind of parted from my face. And he said, "Dee," he's like, "Okay, this is it. We're here. We're gonna do it. You're doing it. You're doing it." He's like, "You just gotta spread your legs. And you have to listen to us when we tell you to stop. Because we don't want you to tear, okay?" He's like, “You are doing a great job!" And I just, like, he was so excited. And I just was like, "Okay! Okay!" And then I went back to Erica's face, because I just was staring at her. And they had to spread my legs open because I was so scared. And in one push she was out.
Dee: 19:12
And they were like "Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop!” And it just—I couldn't. I just—she just shot out. And I can't even begin to describe it to you how, like, amazing I felt. Like amazing because—not just because I gave birth without an epidural or any medical—like, you know, the epidural part—I had medical intervention with the Pitocin, but it was that I did something that I never, ever in my whole life thought I could do. Because I just took it one contraction at a time. Because it was a culmination of my experience with my first baby, all that I learned from our class, all that I learned from Erica, and just like, everything—just determination of like, "No, I don't need to have a new epidural to get through this. I can do it one breath at a time, one contraction at a time and like, this is what's gonna happen."
Dee: 20:06
And I, you know, I didn't want anything to slow down this labor and the progression of it. And it just happened. It happened! And I just, I remember the nurses and the doctors coming in, and they just kept looking at me and they were like, "We've never seen someone so happy after they've had a baby—immediately after they've had a baby!" Like I was chatting, and, you know, laughing. And it was so wonderful. And also just to know that she was out, healthy and safe, was like the biggest gift ever.
Dee: 20:41
Almost immediately after I gave birth, my body started to feel better because I was in so much pain—my ribs, you know, my hips, my sugar levels went down immediately, like the pregnancy was really difficult. So, unfortunately, Luna had to have—I think it was a two week stay in the NICU. Her lungs weren't fully developed, but she was overall pretty healthy. What we ended up finding out a day or so later was that the placenta was hemorrhaging. They had seen a hematoma around the fetal side of the placenta. So, you know, I'm very grateful to the doctor that was being conservative about hearing the heart beat drop and making me go to the hospital even though I felt inconvenienced, and, you know, not wanting to do it. You know, they could have quite possibly saved her life. And, you know, I don't know. I think that that just knowing that, you know, how difficult the pregnancy was and how fast I wanted her to just come out, and all those other things I mentioned, was the reason I was able to have that experience. And I remember Sam's face. He started crying whenever she came out. And they were like, "Sir! Sir! Do you wanna—do you want to come see the baby?" And he was just sort of like, so overwhelmed with emotion, and I remember him being like, "Oh my God! I can't believe you just did that!"
Sam: 22:07
She was such a gangster. Like, I can't even believe it. Like she was—like, some of her contractions, she was completely silent. Just in the most Zen, incredible—like she was just super in-the-zone and, like, focused, and just breathing in complete silence. It was awesome. Like, so awesome. I'm telling you, this woman is, like, she has zero pain tolerance whatsoever. Every—she—on a normal day, if she, like, stubs her toe, it's like I can't tell if we have to go to the hospital or not based on her reaction. And so this I was just like, "Wow!"
Dee: 22:50
Yeah, exactly.
Lisa: 22:52
And that just goes to prove that, you know, a lot of people come to class and tell me, "Oh, I have no pain tolerance, so I'm totally gonna need the epidural." But, you know, given the right mindset and strategic tools—like you were just talking about taking it one wave at a time, one contraction at a time, those mini-goals or whatever strategic tools and support help you feel like you can do it can make all the difference in the world. So it doesn't necessarily translate into you're definitely gonna need the epidural if you, in other parts of life, have had a lower pain tolerance. I love that.
Dee: 23:25
Yeah, I think something that was really different this second time was that, you know, maybe with Emma, I was a little bit more reserved or less likely to—because, you know, you've never done it before, so you don't know what to expect. You sort of feel a little self-conscious. I didn't want to fully maybe let go during my like labor and breathing all that. Whereas with Luna, I didn't care at all. So for the first half of my contractions, I was moaning very loudly and I didn't care because that's what felt good. And then there were moments where I was dead silent, and that felt good. It was like I was doing whatever I needed to do to breathe and be in my breath. And if that meant moaning because that got me through, that's what I did and I didn't care if people could hear me out in the hallway, and I didn't care if the nurses saw me, you know, or whatever it was. It was like, I was truly just, like, breathing in and saying in my head, over and over again, "You're not dying. You're not dying. You're not dying. You're just laboring. You're laboring. You're not dying," because your body tricks your mind into thinking you're dying! You know, and it's like, you're not. And that really was what got me through each one of those. I remember closing my eyes and saying over and over again, "You're not dying. You're not dying. Just breathe. Breathe in, breathe in, breathe in, breathe in." You know, and that's just—then here we are, you know?
Dee: 24:47
And you know, it's interesting as much as I say, like, I'm truly done having kids. It's that telling those stories and having these experiences that makes it very attractive to have want to have another, you know? I don't think we'll have another. But, you know, it's just—it's one of those things in life that I am just so grateful to have experienced and be able to say that in my lifetime I was able to give birth to my two children, you know, in two completely different ways. And so I have these two different reference points to share, and I'm really grateful for that.
Lisa: 25:27
Awesome. Sam, any reflections that you didn't get to share on either birth experience?
Sam: 25:33
With Luna, it was interesting, because getting the news that we got after about the hemorrhage was just so chilling to me that I just feel, like, immense gratitude for how it went. Because when you think about the process, like, what an incredible experience that we were able to have, you know? And then you find out just like what could have happened on the flip side, it's just...I mean, the birthing process was just—it was like game time, like, because we had done it before, it felt like, you know—and seeing Dee go through that, it felt like so—it was like quick and, like, forgive me for saying "easy," but it's like Erica was joking about how she—she's like, "Oh, this is just like a 9 to 5. Like she showed up at 9am and...
Dee: 26:25
And was home by 7.
Sam: 26:29
Yeah, and it was just like this day that was just, like, you—I mean, your water broke and within, like, what an hour or so you had, like, a baby and—sure, we spent the night there, but it was peaceful and, you know, like, everything went really well. Just like so grateful for that experience. And I think that, like, I know people have really intense, sometimes traumatic, sometimes just mentally exhausting—and everything that can go into these experiences in the hospital can be such a dice roll. And we had two great experiences, and two healthy kids. I mean, even with Luna being in the NICU, some of those kids in there, they're just so tiny and they're going through just such challenging things. And I just feel for those families, and I'm in absolute awe of the NICU staff and what they're able to do with just like the youngest of babies. It's absolutely incredible.
Dee: 27:28
I think one of the things to kind of take away from everything that we talked about, whether it's birthing Emma, birthing Luna, or parenting in the current state that we're in, is that, you know, none of us have been here before. We have not been here before. We can't predict the future. We can't control it. What we can do is educate ourselves and communicate about it every step of the way, and advocate for what we want and advocate for our rights and things that we, you know, want to happen. I mean, we can't control that Emma came three weeks early or Luna came five weeks early or that there were all these issues, but through your class, through having Erica as a doula to support, by having advocacy you know, on our behalf through the medical system, and then, you know, having doctors that were on her side, to, you know, execute what we wanted, and to continuously keep, like, communicating with other people in the community—it's just—it's kind of where we are, you know? It's not like—I don't want to say that we were lucky. We were just, you know, we went through it with our eyes wide open, and as educated and informed as we possibly could be. And I think that had we not, had we just sort of succumbed to the system, maybe we would have just had an emergency C section and not, you know, have gone through the experience that we did. I don't know, you know, maybe in other hospitals there are other situations that would be like that, But you know what? Like, it wasn't.
Sam: 28:56
Yeah, I think you need to stay, like, stay informed. And when you're—the more informed you are, that it helps you to be flexible. You have to have some degree of flexibility because at the end of the day, there's so many different things that can happen. So it's okay to have a birth plan. And if you want to write it on a piece of paper and hand it to the medical staff, that's obviously okay, too. But it's okay if things are not going according to the plan, because if you walk in there with your mind set on how it's gonna go and thinking that you know how it's gonna go—hopefully it does, hopefully it goes exactly how you want it to—but at the end of the day, the goal is to walk out of there with a healthy child and a healthy mother. And that's the most important thing. That's more important than what's on that piece of paper. And I feel like a lot of people put themselves through just a ton of mental stress by feeling so defeated that the plan has been strayed from, you know? But, like, again, the more information you can give yourself, you can say, "Okay, we're not gonna do this. But here's our next best option," you know, and that's why I like having a doula because they can help talk through those things. But yeah, I think you know where I'm going with that.
Lisa: 30:20
When you said healthy mom and baby...knowing you guys, I think you—I just want to point it out to people who might not be thinking about this—that you mean more than just the physical health. That's, of course, very important. But also protecting our mental, emotional, psychological, spiritual wellness as well, which I think you were really smart in doing by equipping yourself with support and information and resources and....
Dee: 30:48
Yeah, it's true.
Sam: 30:49
One example. The delayed cord clamping.
Dee: 30:53
Oh, yes. Yes.
Dee: 30:53
The second one, I had said, "This is something that we want." And they were about to cut that cord the second the baby came out with Luna. And I was like, "Hold on!" and they gave me this look like, "What are you, nuts?" You know, like, "Why are you intervening here?" I was very, like, stern and adamant that they give us a much time as they could. However, she wasn't the color that they wanted her to be. They had, you know, she was five weeks early. Her lungs were really working how they wanted them to. And so that's one of those times where they gave me a little bit, and then they had to make a decision and like, that's where I think, you know, it's okay that it didn't happen exactly how I wanted it to because there were more important things. And there was someone tapping me on the shoulder that said, "You need to....It's time. Like, it's time.”
Lisa: 31:50
Pragmatism is important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Great. Well, I wanted to ask you real quick if you have any tips for parents who might end up with a baby in the NICU. Any things that you learned along the way that come to mind?
Sam: 32:05
Well, again, our stay in the NICU was fortunately, like, short by most NICU standards, I would say and—sorry, we have—our other baby's up and having a tough time.
Lisa: 32:21
It's all good.
Sam: 32:21
And, you know, for the people who have to go for months, I don't have any advice, you know, but...
Lisa: 32:30
And you already had—you had a little one at home, so that probably made it a little even more logistically tricky.
Sam: 32:36
We did. This is gonna be just sort of like a seemingly trivial thing, but we had asked for, Uber gift—people were like, "What can we do?" And we were like, "We need Uber, Uber gift cards" because—and it was huge because we had—you go back and forth so much that if we didn't—if we had a baby who was in there for months, we would have had to, like, lease a car or something, you know, because you spend so much time going back and forth. So that's a really helpful thing.
Lisa: 33:14
That's a great tip.
Sam: 33:14
Do you have anything for parents with kids in the NICU?
Dee: 33:14
I think really taking advantage of the resources there. I was really shocked by how many different communities and groups and activities that they had. I think that it's really important to stay active and to stay connected to other parents that are going through the same thing as you, you know, or similar things. I think that, you know, being communicative with the staff—I think that we became really close with the one nurse that was with Luna. We, like stay in touch with her because she was just so special. But I think it was also us talking to her like a person, and I don't know. I think really, just like looking into the resources that the nick you has for parents that are going through this experience.
Lisa: 34:01
Great. Thank you. Those are two excellent tips. Appreciate that. All right, well, your two little ones are up from their naps, and so I should probably let you go.
Sam: 34:10
Here we go.
Lisa: 34:10
So excited to get to see both of you. Hi, Emma! How's it going? A little groggy?
Dee: 34:17
A little groggy. Definitely attached to her daddy.
Lisa: 34:24
All right, well, any last things you wanted to share? I feel like you already kind of shared some great kind of wrapping up tips. But I just always wanted to ask if there's anything you didn't share that you wanted to.
Dee: 34:32
Just sort of one thing I want to say mostly to one another, to myself and to you, Sam, and then to anyone who's listening is that, you know, it's just, like, savor the moments. I know that we hear that a lot, but like, really, look at it. Whenever you're in a place of—whether you're scared to give birth or you're in the newborn stage or you're in the childbirth phase, it's like, look at it for a second and realize that it's going to pass. Everything will pass. And it's just, these are chapters of your life. So, like even when you're in it, and you're frustrated and tired, like, just look at it as a chapter in your in your book and sort of savor it, and hold on to it, because it won't last forever. It really won't. And you can look back on it and you can laugh about it. Or you can say, "Thank God it's over" or whatever. But just, like, be present in it and appreciate it. Because it's really a blessing.
Dee: 35:29
Awesome. Can I ask you one last thing?
Dee: 35:32
Yeah!
Dee: 35:32
Real quick? You brought it up at the beginning of our chat, but I just wanted to ask if you want to share any more about your friendship that you made in birth class? Because I'm hoping to interview them and get their two birth stories. But it has just warmed my heart to know that two couples are like raising their kids to—anyway, I'll let you talk.
Sam: 35:52
They're just great. Just the nicest, most genuine people. And they're totally part of our (Emma, cover your mouth, please) and part of our little, like, village that was so valuable in—and, like, just, I mean, they're always there for us. They're always reaching out like, "Do you guys need anything? What can we help with?" They had their second, Daphne, a couple months ago, and had reached out to us and said, "Do you guys need any help? We heard you guys are having a tough time with the two girls." Like, they had a newborn home and like, it's just awesome to know that we have support like that, and like they totally stepped up to the plate along with other friends in the neighborhood when we had to go back and forth to the hospital to the NICU all the time. You know, we were—we were back and forth and, through, like, the birthing process that they were taking care of, the whole village was just, like, hitting each other up. "Okay, cool. You guys have Emma until tonight? Okay, we'll pick her up and we'll bring her over, she can have a sleepover at our house," and, like, things like that. It's just so great and Kate and AJ are...
Dee: 36:56
The best.
Sam: 36:58
Awesome people.
Dee: 36:58
And we just like, honestly, it's this incredible friendship. And I remember, like, a few weeks ago, we had them over. And it was, you know, we had them over for brunch, and everyone was getting along and everything was going great. And then at one point, it was right before naptime and everything was sort of hitting the fan. And it was crazy in here. It was like, all four kids were crying. It was wild. It was, like, just super intense. And AJ just looked at me and we like, like all looked at other and started laughing, and we're like, we wouldn't have it any other way, but this is so insane and fun. And, like, we're in this together, like, totally in it together. And we always say, like, "We have Lisa Taylor to thank for that."
Sam: 37:42
My name in AJ's phone still says "Sam—Birth Matters."
Lisa: 37:51
Because that's where you met. I love it. I wanted to ask you more about that because I wanted to point out to listeners how important it is to find community. However that is, whether that's in birth class or in new parents groups or La Leche League, or whatever it is, you need that support. We're not meant to do this in isolation.
Dee: 00:00
Yeah, for sure. And when you do a breastfeeding podcast, we can do a whole episode on just breastfeeding.
Lisa: 38:15
Yeah, I would love to do a series on that later on, so I will be in touch. Thanks for offering that. All right, well, thank you so much. This has been awesome to hear both birth stories and see your girls again. And I hope to...
Sam: 38:29
Thanks for having us on. It was awesome.
Dee: 38:29
Thank you, Lisa. Thank you so much for all that you do for us.
Lisa: 38:34
Oh, it's my joy and my pleasure and my passion. So thank you so much. Hope to see you guys in the neighborhood before long.
Sam:
Sounds good. Bye, Lisa.
Lisa: 38:44
So that finishes up Dee's and Sam's second daughter's birth story. I want to just touch on a couple of things that came up in these two birth stories. Dee mentioned bleeding at the beginning of labor. This is called "bloody show" and it's blood-tinged mucus. The blood in the mucus is a sign that the capillaries in the cervix are dilating. It's usually one of several possible pre-labor and/or in-labor signs. But given the huge range of normal, in general, bloody show alone isn't necessarily a sign that someone's in labor. It could be, but it also could be a sign that labor is still a week or two away. However, this is something where I'd always recommend above all else to listen to your instincts, because something about perhaps the quantity caused Dee to instinctively think this was a sign of actual labor. So listen to those instincts like she did. You may also want to check with your care provider to be sure it's a sign that you definitely should go to your birthplace before heading in, just like Dee did.
Lisa: 39:41
The tricky thing is that, for many of us, it's hard to separate out all the scary portrayals we've seen of birth on movies and TV—which comes from a place of fear—separate that out from our deep and wise instincts, which come from a place of calm and centeredness. So as you try to discern the difference, perhaps ask yourself, "Is this feeling coming from a place of unhealthy fear or wise intuition?"
Lisa: 40:08
I said the partner's presence can make the contractions more effective because it boosts a hormone called oxytocin in our body. I should also point out that whenever the water breaks—or I like to say "waters release" (since this is a healthy physiological process, after all) it can cause a sudden increase in the intensity of what you're feeling.
Lisa: 40:29
It's very common for the epidural to slow labor down. Why? Well, there's more than one reason. Just being required to stay in the bed hinders progress because lack of movement of the body tends to slow down the descent and rotation of the baby through the pelvis. Also, the epidural disrupts the hormonal pathways, and we've seen in studies that it reduces oxytocin, which is the magical hormone in our bodies that creates effective contractions while also helping us cope with the strong sensations. This is why it's very common for hospitals to pair an epidural with the most popular drug among labor and delivery staff, Pitocin, which is synthetic oxytocin through an IV. They call it Pit. It does have the effect of creating stronger, longer, more frequent contractions, but close monitoring is necessary to be sure both mom and baby tolerate it okay.
Lisa: 41:23
The Foley balloon is used for urinary catheterization and can also be used in an induction. It's a tool that can be useful in delaying the introduction of induction medications that require much closer monitoring and carry more risk for mom and baby. In New York City hospitals, a Foley balloon is only used after being checked in for an induction, whereas in other parts of the country it's possible your care provider might administer it outpatient and send you home for a while. They put a balloon inside the cervix, and the cervix has to be at least a little bit open or dilated for this to be physically possible, and then they inflate it with saline solution. The balloon pushes on the cervix to help it open and thin out. Most often it's just a starting place for an induction, and then eventually they move on to medications. But sometimes it's enough to jump start labor for some people on its own. Do be aware that administration of the Foley balloon will be much less uncomfortable the more ripe and ready the cervix is. By "ripe and ready," I mean the softer, more open or dilated, more thinned out or effaced, and the more the cervix has changed position from pointing posterior or toward the tailbone, to pointing anterior or toward the vaginal canal.
Lisa: 42:40
Guess who we have sharing next week? None other than Kate and AJ, the dear friends Dee and Sam met in birth class. Here is a sneak peek.
AJ: 42:49
Within, I don't know, another half hour after that, Kate wakes me up, and is like, "Hey, we need to start timing these. I think it's getting serious." And, you know, we're in between, like, clicking the timer on our phone, and then we both sort of fall asleep for six more minutes, and then she, like, shakes me awake, and I start the timer. And then we stop the timer, and we both go back to sleep for six minutes. And we probably did that for at least an hour, and hour and a half, and then it got intense enough that I called the doula. And this was another one of those situations in which it was just so nice to have somebody with, like, concrete suggestions on what to do. She was like, "Okay, based on what you're telling me right now, you guys need to get in the car and I'm gonna get a car and we'll see you in 15 minutes."
Lisa: 43:30
Something that Dee shared that I'll leave you to ponder today: giving birth is a positive feedback loop. It's unlike any other pain you've experienced in your life before. It's your body telling you something is going right. There's a baby at the end of this. It's pain with a positive purpose. Or you could also reframe it and think of it as intensity with a positive purpose. Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast. Have a great week and be well. ---END---