Despite the fact that EmJ has always had a self-professed low pain tolerance, she finds instinctive coping mechanisms that work for her to have the unmedicated birth that she had hoped to have in a Manhattan hospital. Part of what helps this happen was how EmJ receives uncommonly doula-like support from the nurses that helps her to manage well when things were at the most intense points. After the birth story, EmJ details navigating breastfeeding, and ultimately, exclusive pumping, in light of having had previous breast reduction surgery. She seeks out pelvic PT and finds it incredibly valuable to do an initial phone consult shortly after birth, particularly since she had experienced a fairly significant tear. Finally, EmJ gives some lesser known info on how she learned as a solo business owner that she could participate in the NY State Paid Parental Leave program and give us some tricks for small business owners.
Resources:
All Angles Tutoring - EmJ’s tutoring company
Natural Hospital Birth by Cynthia Gabriel*
Prenatal Yoga Center (Manhattan or virtual)
Take Flight PT (Natalie Toshkoff)
City Lactation (Annie Frisbie & team)
New York State Insurance Fund (paid family leave insurance for small business owners)
Take Them a Meal - free meal train coordination website
Insurance Flow chart (for lactation coverage)
Sponsor links:
Free “Pack for Your Best Birth” Packing List (with free mini-course option)
East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event, pregnancy/postpartum support groups and more)
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; we will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
Took 6 months to get pregnant
Went to OB for a preconception meeting
Got pregnant two weeks later
Asking her sister if she should take birth class
Taking birth class and finding great community
Reading Natural Hospital Birth, helped with a birth plan
Preparing intellectually, emotionally, mentally, physically
Labor starts spontaneously early in morning
They eventually go to hospital, nurse Olga really helpful and doula-like
Asks for a popsicle
Asks about pain medication options, but they say only epidural and she doesn’t want it
Gets in shower after advocating for herself, Nurse Olga helps support her while Ethan goes to get coconut water for her
A bunch of nurses come in and it felt surreal, wave of calm comes over her
Feels a magical serenity, Ethan returns to room
Lull in contractions, and suddenly her water breaks, she vomits
Pushing stage, meets her baby a bit later
Felt ready for pushing but also felt least prepared for
Turned to side for pushing, OB coached her some
Feeling an immediate sense of relief meeting her son
Had breast reduction surgery 7 years ago, she knew she might have issues breastfeeding
She had a prenatal appointment with Annie Frisbie, IBCLC (lactation consultant) and her partner, Ethan, came along which was very helpful
Had some lactation help in hospital from lactation consultant
Had to see another LC in hospital who gave them triple feeding advice
Had a good supply but shape of nipple challenging due to surgical reconstruction
75% breastmilk and 25% formula at this point
Got coverage by Cigna for her prenatal lactation appointment
Consult 2 days after birth with pelvic floor PT (Natalie @ Take Flight PT)
Paid family leave as a private business owner
You have to buy an insurance policy through a private company as a company, you have to buy disability insurance together with it - NYSIF (New York State Insurance Fund) - will take a 1-person company
Meal train for 1st two weeks
Discussing division of labor as a couple for postpartum
Importance of seeking out community and support
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Hi EmJ. How are you?
EmJ: Hi, Lisa. I'm so good. Thanks so much for having me.
Lisa: Thank you for coming so soon after you gave birth. What has it been like? Threeish? Three-ish weeks?
EmJ: It'll be three weeks on Sunday. Yeah.
Lisa: Oh my goodness. So recently. So your birth story is very fresh.
EmJ: Yes, yes.
Lisa: So before we jump into your story, would you just please introduce yourself a little more to listeners?
EmJ: Totally. So I'm EmJ Hova. I live in Woodside, Queens with my husband Ethan, and now, my baby Wesley. Like we just said, I gave birth almost three weeks ago. And I have been here ever since. I'm also a business owner. I run a tutoring agency called All Angles Tutoring. And so that's also been a really interesting journey in terms of switching gears, to sort of administrative work for my business, and getting paid family leave, which we can definitely talk about more as we go later on.
But, that's me. Yeah.
Lisa: And I will just mention that with your tutoring company. One of my friends you recently met hired you to tutor her daughter and she was raving. She said, so wonderful. Really, really wonderful. So glad that we connected. And so I just wanted to give your company a shout-out on that level.
Just a little praise that I'm hearing.
EmJ: Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been really fun. It's been really good.
Conception and Preparation for Pregnancy
Lisa: Nice. Well, thank you. So could we start maybe with just giving us a little background in terms of your conception and/or pregnancy journey, the different ways that you prepared for the journey into parenthood?
EmJ: For sure. So, it was kind of an interesting conception journey for us. I was raised Catholic and so I definitely had this mindset or notion that the second I tried to have a baby, I would immediately get pregnant. And that wasn't the case for us. And so not that it took a quote-unquote long time, but it took about six months for us and, it started to become a little bit mentally taxing because you start thinking like, is there something wrong with me?
Is this never gonna happen? Are we doing something wrong? Am I not eating the right things? Am I not exercising enough? Is my body broken? And it's really tricky. So a friend of mine actually recommended just going to the OB, my OB whom I love, Dr. Kameelah Phillips, wanna give her a shout out. And so after about six months my husband and I went to the OB and we had this sort of preconception meeting, where we did like blood work and talked about lifestyle and that was really huge. Also, she sent me to do sort of an ultrasound just to make sure everything was fine internally, check out the uterus, check out the ovaries because, you never see them. They're on the inside. So we did that meeting and for me it was a huge weight off my shoulders for them to tell me that everything looks good and functioning.
They recommended de-stressing and so doing things that make me feel more calm. And then two weeks later we were pregnant. So.
Lisa: What!
EmJ: Yeah.
Lisa: Oh wow. That's great.
EmJ: Yeah. So that was a huge learning for me, and I'm so glad that I did that because I was definitely told, or I feel like the societal norm is you should be trying to conceive for a year before you have to do anything about it.
And I was really grateful that my friend advised me to just go to the doctor at six months because it was clearly taxing on me. And I wanted some answers, I wanted more information about my body. And then that sort of freed me. And so yeah, we came back for our, six week early, early, confirm the pregnancy appointment and Dr. Phillips was like, Wait, I just saw you guys, This is kind of, this is best case scenario. Amazing. Yeah. So.
Lisa: Do you mind my asking, if you were coming off hormonally-based contraceptives? in your journey to try to conceive?
EmJ: That's a really good question. I did have an IUD, I did the pill for, six years, and then I did have an IUD for a couple years. But I had that IUD taken out for about a year before we started trying. So it had been a while since I had anything hormonally going on. But, yeah, the IUD just didn't really work for me and so we decided to stop that a little bit earlier.
So I had some time.
Lisa: Yeah. It sounds like you had been off of those things for enough time that that shouldn't have been as much of a factor as it would've been if you'd just gotten off of it. Interesting.
EmJ: Totally, totally.
Lisa: Great. I'm glad that that went as it did. I'm glad you went to see the OB sooner.
EmJ: Me, too,
Lisa: Great. Nice. Seems like your psyche somehow just needed that peace of mind, to relax into it a little more, maybe.
EmJ: Absolutely. And I do think too, it's hard because there's so much unknown about the body and especially like a woman's body, like my body, that it was just so helpful to have that knowledge. I think I had a lot of fear because I had heard a lot of friends have trouble conceiving or have fibroids or PCOS or something.
And so just that peace of mind, like you said, was really critical for me to be able to kind of, I don't know, let go of that fear, I think and welcome this new journey.
Lisa: Nice. So then you're pregnant and what next?
Pregnancy and Support System
EmJ: So then I'm pregnant. Yes. So, I feel very fortunate. I feel like I had a very good pregnancy, and a great team of people. And with that, my husband's a huge part of that. He's an amazing partner. I'm so grateful for him. I also so my partner's a huge part of this and also my sister, and I'm sure I'll keep circling back to her 'cause she was also a huge part of my pregnancy journey, my birth journey, and postpartum and parenting as well. So she's been a huge ally and I called her in my third trimester to ask her opinion on birthing classes and what she thought and if she did one. Because I just see her as like a rock star and like this very independent person. And I was like, maybe she's gonna tell me they're a waste of money.
I have no idea. She's very opinionated too, so I never know what she's gonna say, but I always love it because she's no nonsense, which I love. So I called her and she was like, They are priceless. She was like, Take one. And if you can take one that is longer, like a six-week one, take that.
Because it's a lot of information and it's really hard to take it all in all at once. And so.
Lisa: I love that advice.
EmJ: Yeah, and I agree. I think even the six-week class is still a lot of information.
Lisa: Oh yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You're right.
EmJ: But yeah, she was like, Do it. It was amazing. And she was also like, it was a great opportunity for her and her husband to really start going on this journey together. I think it's really interesting as a pregnant person, there's so much you do kind of solo, like you're thinking about it all the time from the second you become pregnant, you're aware and it's just very different for the non-pregnant partner. And she was like, birthing class was a huge part of their partnership going into labor and parenting together.
And that really got them off on the right foundation. And so I was sold, so I did a little Google search and we live in Queens, so your name came up with five-star rave reviews and I went on the website and, I felt very aligned with your message and sent you a little message, kind of relaying my experience so far and some of my fears that I had.
And, before you knew it, we were enrolled in this six-week birthing class, which, man, I just keep saying it's like the gift that keeps on giving. This birthing class was amazing. It just, it opened us up to an entire community of not only pregnant people and parents and expecting parents, but also this community of support, of people who have expertise, lactation consultants, PT, pelvic floor PT specifically, pediatricians. Oh, and doulas, of course, right? This whole network of doulas and including postpartum doulas, which I had never heard of before. I mean, there was so much. So I kind of went into your class, I had already read quite a bit and done a lot of research in terms of labor and what it might be like and how to prepare and those sorts of things.
And then I was just like floored how much more I was able to learn that was like very practical tips and tricks from what sort of snacks to bring. But again, the thing that really hit home was this community. And the fact that this was a six week class, we were really able to form these amazing friendships, with these parents who were expecting the same time around us, who live nearby us.
And that also I feel has been a gift that keeps on giving because it's been so nice to be in contact with them as we're like going through this journey at the exact same time.
Lisa: Didn't some of you go apple picking soon after you graduated from birth class? Did that work out?
EmJ: Gosh, it was so rainy that day and cold. We had to cancel. It was depressing.
Lisa: I'm so sorry I missed that memo. Didn't hear that.
EmJ: Aw.
Lisa: I'm so sad. I was all excited to see pictures and I never followed up to ask for them, so that must be why. Aw.
EmJ: That was why it was so heartbreaking, because it was the last weekend for us to go because we were gonna be very pregnant moving into the week after that. So, we had to cancel. It was so sad. There's still the community there.
There's still the community, we've been able to get together though, and we've played board games with our friends and we also, we saw the couple, one of the couples in our class the day before I gave birth, so we went to Martha's Country Bakery, in Astoria. some decaf coffee and some desserts.
And then boom, 24 hours later, I was having contractions.
Lisa: That is so cool.
EmJ: Yeah. So we see them. We just didn't do apple picking. That was, it didn't happen that way.
Lisa: I will mention for listeners that the six-week offering was a rare offering. I would love to offer it more, but it's hard to get people to sign up for that because a lot of people don't think about birth class until it's kind of too late for them to spread it out that much. But I wish I, I really wanna offer it more and I wanna promote it more.
EmJ: That six-week class was just amazing and I think it was halfway through that we started this like cookie train. Where like,
Lisa: Yes! That was fun.
EmJ: Again, it took three weeks for us to figure out that we were all on board with cookies and desserts and then every week a different couple like brought these treats to share for like the remainder of our class time.
Lisa: And that was just epic. So I feel like it does take a little bit of time to warm up. And then it was amazing. And we clicked in and yeah, it just reminded me of a soccer team or something where you're bringing snacks and you rotate it. I love it.
EmJ: It was amazing. It was truly amazing.
Resources and Creating Birth Plans
Lisa: Well, so what are the other ways that you prepared for the journey into parenthood?
I know that birth class wasn't the only thing, and reading, you mentioned reading and stuff.
EmJ: Yeah. So my sister again had recommended this book to me, Natural Hospital Birth, actually have it here with me, by Cynthia Gabriel. And yeah, it was really amazing. I felt like it was a really fair reading. And, my sister had two unmedicated hospital births and that's kind of how I went into the journey and what I wanted. I think it was interesting taking your class that I probably could have done an at-home birth, but I like, wasn't brave enough or I didn't feel like I had the tools or community to make that decision.
And ultimately I think it was very good to be in the hospital, for me, but, I'm glad I also had the tools along the way to make it happen so that it could be unmedicated as well. So yeah, I read this book, which was really enlightening and I think two big takeaways for me from the book were the birth plan and then preparation.
And so with the birth plan in the book, they talk about, kind of writing out your dream birth plan that you don't show anyone. And this is like the magical birth plan. So like you can be anywhere in the world, you can have anybody with you, they can appear and disappear. You can teleport. It's super dreamy.
And so, and you don't have to show anyone. It's just if you could do this with all sorts of magic, what would your wishlist be? And so I did the dream birth plan. And then there's a second level where you do what's called the whole birth plan. And this is kind of like writing out in detail every quote, unquote, realistic thought you have around your birth plan.
And it can be as long as you want. And they recommend sharing it with just a few people, who will be like, present with you at your birth so that they know. So I shared that with my husband, and it was like, three pages long, like ridiculous, like maybe four. And then from there the last step for the birth plan is they have you do like the hospital birth plan, which is no more than one page, but the shorter the better is kind of what they say.
So that ended up being about four to six sentences I think. And then, I also used the template that I got from you with the little icons. So there are pictures about what your preferences are. So really like half of my birth plan was just these pictures and then the bottom half was kind of like a thank you note to the nurses, and doctor and just like team of people.
And my doctor actually liked it so much that she asked if she could keep it and show it to other patients as an example.
Lisa: Love it!
EmJ: Yeah. Cause birth plans when you give them to the hospital, I know it's kind of a controversial sort of touchy subject and she loved the icons. So yeah, and we were able to go through that during our prenatal appointment in the last couple of weeks.
And so she was able to like, take notes and sign off on that. And then, we brought it to the hospital and several people asked for it as an example. And I wish we had brought more copies, but I tried to send the link for that birth plan that you had given us, because that was just, it was amazing to have those little pictures.
Lisa: Is that the, I think that might be the Mama Natural birth plan. I will link to it in the show notes for other people. Yeah.
EmJ: Yeah, it was, it was really helpful and super concise and my doctor and all of the nurses loved it because they could just look at it like, it was like a children's picture book, I think, and they didn't read a chapter book or something.
Lisa: Yeah. And I just wanna give credit to not only Mama Natural, but a couple of doulas in our collective are the ones who brought that to my attention, 'cause they use it with all their clients. And I was like, I love this, the visuals, it's just so clear you're not having to sort through a bunch of text, So. Yeah. Yeah. Great. I'm so glad that was helpful for you and that the hospital staff loved it.
EmJ: Yes. So that was like one part of the book for me. And then the second part was preparation. And in the book they talk about, four ways of preparing yourself for labor and delivery. And they talk about intellectually preparing yourself, emotionally preparing yourself, mentally, and physically.
And I'm like a very type-A person. And so, intellectually was like my easiest thing and I was really bummed to learn that that was a quarter of the work. So. Uh
Lisa: Same with me, EmJ.
EmJ: Right. I was like, Oh, I'll just read about labor and I'll nail it. Right. And it is a component, right? Of course. It's a component. You want to be prepared.
So birth class is a part of kind of the intellectual plan. Of course, reading this book was a part of that. Doing some of those very like, brainy things. So like setting up paid family leave and setting up a prenatal lactation consultant's appointment and like checking things off the list.
Those are all intellectual things essentially. So that's what I did for that. And then for emotional, for me, I felt, really talking to my sister was a big part of my emotional preparation. She's somebody I really look up to and she had done this, and so I felt, like just talking to her as an ally and mentor was really helpful.
The book also talks about emotional preparation in terms of past traumas, so I think that is a really important thing to touch on. And they say that that can be either, like it can be loss, or it can be sort of physical trauma, or it can also be trauma from a previous birth experience, which I thought was really interesting.
Hypnobabies
EmJ: And so, that was like the second component was emotional. Mental was the third. And so my husband actually bought the Hypnobabies course for me, for Mother's Day, the Mother's Day before I had a baby, which I thought was really cute.
Lisa: Now, was this completely his idea or had you planted a seed and mentioned it at all? Or I'm curious.
EmJ: Our friends had actually mentioned it to us, and we kind of like laughed at them in hindsight though, probably shouldn't have done that, but we were like, Hypnobabies? It's a weird name.
Lisa: It is.
EmJ: It's a weird thing. But they had mentioned it, and they talked about it, just its benefits of checking in mentally and how it's like a very unique experience.
So, it's something that you start around, I think it's 28 weeks pregnant is when you start the program. And it's a lot of work. It's basically a mindful meditation for about two hours a day. So it's,
Lisa: I didn't realize it was that much that they're encouraging you to do. Wow.
EmJ: Yeah, so it's a lot. And then you kind of do that for weeks on end. So not everybody I'm sure has the time to go hard into this program. And I, again, I'm a pretty type A, like serious rule follower person, and I think I did 75 to 80% of this. So it's tough.
Lisa: That's still a lot.
EmJ: Yes.
Lisa: And do I remember that you mentioned that that program tends to say don't take birth class, but that you disagreed.
EmJ: Yes, they did say that. They were like, We are the only resource that you need. You don't need to take a birth class. And that actually is when I called my sister and I was like, Wait, what? Yeah, I ignored that and I'm glad I did because there's so much that birth class, like I mentioned before, gave me and my husband that Hypnobabies did not.
So I think it was good to kind of pair them because there really is something special and important about that daily practice that I really underestimated actually and kind of didn't buy into, fully. But when I did it, I was really surprised. I'm a person who generally has anxiety and has a journey with anxiety, that comes in waves and comes and goes.
And I was amazed with this daily practice, that my anxiety around pregnancy, essentially, almost diminished. It was, it was really crazy. So I was less anxious during pregnancy than I have been in most of my life. Because every day you're doing this, you're doing joyful affirmations around your pregnancy, you're calming your nervous system for two hours a day.
And it just put me at ease throughout the pregnancy. And I kind of wish that there was one for postpartum because I feel like
Lisa: Well, there's something, What comes to mind? Are you familiar with the Expectful app?
EmJ: No, I
Lisa: And there's also, I'm a little less familiar with Mindful Mamas, but both of those are meditation apps that are specific to the perinatal, like both for prenatal and for postpartum. So those might be things that you could check out that could be really supportive right now in early parenthood.
EmJ: Yeah. I would definitely do that.
Lisa: I've known a lot of my clients have done Expectful, especially folks who deal with anxiety but not limited to that and have found it incredibly helpful and supportive.
Physical Preparation for Birth
EmJ: I will definitely look that up because I definitely miss it. I miss it for that purpose. Because there's been a lot postpartum, which we'll move into later. But yeah. And then, the last kind of component was physical preparation, which I sort of put off. And so in the last, I would say it was only like the last three or so weeks of my pregnancy, maybe four, I did prenatal yoga, with the Prenatal Yoga Center and with Deb, and that was amazing.
They're on the Upper West Side, so I did the sort of livestream ones from home, which were amazing, especially as I got to be very pregnant, to just roll out of bed and go to my living room and be able to move a little bit. I didn't really want to move a lot towards the end.
And so that was really helpful as well, was that prenatal yoga in the last few weeks. And so those were kind of the things that I gathered from the book. And that was my four-pronged approach to preparation.
Lisa: I love it. So, so well balanced, so holistic and, yeah. That's fabulous. Thank you so much. Well, whenever you're ready to dive into your birth story, feel free to do that.
Beginning of Labor
EmJ: Yes. So, one thing that was interesting from Hypnobabies is they have you visualize your birth. So like, time of day that it starts, what day of the week it starts, where you are, when your labor starts, what the weather's just like some of these really specific wishes. And so I started doing that and it kind of happened that way.
So I feel very lucky. It was two days after my due date, and it was Sunday morning around 6:00 AM I started having contractions that felt kind of like cramping. And I remember from your birth class talking about timing them to figure out if they're Braxton Hicks or if they are the real deal.
And so I sort of in my sleepiness, had my Notes app and would like clock when they started and they were about like nine minutes apart in the beginning. And then they started to be more like seven minutes apart. And so then I was like, I don't think these are Braxton Hicks. I think this is the real deal.
So I kind of stayed in bed experiencing those and listening to some of my Hypnobabies tracks for two hours from 6:00 AM to 8:00 AM. And then I was like, I should probably wake up my husband and tell him. And he was like starting to get up anyway, so I did that and then, we labored at home from 8 until like 12, 12:30 ish. And that was a wild ride. Early labor was harder than I thought it was going to be. And I have a really low pain tolerance, I always have. So I was really struggling through the contractions. We did a shower, actually two different showers at home. And then also just like lots of breathing.
I could not listen to the Hypnobabies tracks anymore because I couldn't focus on them. So that plan went outta the window and like in, came a new plan. And I feel like that was all part of the way it was supposed to go. And I felt prepared for that because of your class and kind of the different ways that early labor can look. And I also knew because of your class that I wanted to be at home as long as possible before going to the hospital.
So I was really trying to stay here as long as I could. I called my sister. She was very confident that I was in active labor. In hindsight, she told me she forgot how low my pain tolerance was. Yeah, she's my older sister, so she's allowed to say it. It's true though. She was like, Oh, I thought for sure you were at six centimeters.
But, I wasn't.
Lisa: But weren't you like four or five at that point and technically that used to be called active labor. Did you know that?
EmJ: At four?
Lisa: Yeah, yeah. if you were giving birth before 2014, that's when ACOG changed the definition of active labor. It used to start at four to five centimeters.
It said four hyphen five is the threshold. So to give you some credit, that is when things for many people start to feel like active labor, start to feel really intense. So there's that.
EmJ: Thank you. Yeah,
Lisa: Tell your sister.
EmJ: I will. But yeah, she was like, I think you guys can go to the hospital. And she also was saying too, she knows me very well. She was like, I think you'll just feel better again with that piece of mind component, like being in the location that you want to be in.
And she's like I think you're far enough along where you'll be fine. And I, in hindsight, again, I think that was really good advice because I think doing the car ride at that point was ideal 'cause the car ride, I think at a later point would've been a lot harder. And then also again, like having just more people around at that point so that it wasn't all on Ethan, was also helpful for both of us.
Checking In to the Hospital
EmJ: So that we had the team, we were all set up and then we could kind of just be settled and create the space we wanted to be in for the rest of the time. And so that was really good. So we got to the hospital around 1, 1:30, I think, went to triage. They told me I was four centimeters. And then I had to tell them that I wanted to do this unmedicated.
And they were, I have to say very good about that and responded very well. They did want to make sure, make it very clear that, there's only a certain window where you can get an epidural and are you sure you don't want this? But they were very respectful and responsive when I told them exactly what I wanted.
And then they took me to the labor and delivery room where another nurse, who, I forget her name, but she was also lovely. She was kind of like an intake nurse, asked me if I wanted them to offer me medication along the way or if I would ask for it if I needed it. And I thought that was a really good question.
And I told her, I will ask for it when I need it. And they respected that the entire time. They let me kind of like be the driver of my labor from then on, which was really cool.
Lisa: That's really nice 'cause usually nurses will just keep offering it and you have to actually initiate that. Please don't offer it. I will ask for it. So nice. Yay for that nurse.
EmJ: Totally. They were so respectful and they were so hands-off, which is what I wanted. And so it was great because yeah, I didn't feel like I had anybody pestering me. Anytime I had a contraction, they were like, Yep, we can wait. And they would just wait there, before they got whatever they needed.
Wireless Monitoring and Invaluable Nurse Support
EmJ: I did ask for wireless monitoring, which, in hindsight I realized I did have to ask for, 'cause their default is to wire you even though they have the wireless monitors, so I'm glad I did that when I did, again, kind of glad I was there at four centimeters. So I still had my wits about me a little bit.
'Cause later on there's no way I would have to be like, Can I switch or something? There was no mental capacity.
Lisa: Yeah. Right. That makes sense.
EmJ: Totally. So
Lisa: I'm glad the wireless was an option.
EmJ: Me too. That ended up being really helpful. It was annoying at times because the wireless monitoring that was monitoring the baby would go offline a lot of the time from positioning.
So they were constantly repositioning it. But, we had this like rockstar nurse who was with us basically the whole time. I have to give a shout-out to nurse Olga because oh my gosh. She was there for my entire labor and delivery and basically acted as our personal doula. Which in hindsight, we totally should have had a doula.
Lisa: Cause for listeners who are just now kind of getting familiar with New York hospitals, most nurses in a hospital simply don't have the capacity. They have so many other responsibilities. They would love to be like a doula, many of them, but they just can't.
And so I was thrilled when I heard that nurse Olga was so like a doula, at least for part of your labor. So yeah, share. Share what that was like.
EmJ: Yeah, for basically the whole labor. I mean, it was wild. Yeah. I feel very lucky because for whatever reason on that day, she didn't have anyone else. We were the only people that she had. So she stayed with us the entire time, and yeah, she was amazing. She was doing all the stuff like constantly checking to see if I wanted heating pads or cold pads or cold washcloths.
She was constantly doing pressure on my lower back with like her hands and fists.
Lisa: I guess I thought it was just the time you spent in the shower that she was helping you.
EmJ: No, no, but the shower was key and we have to talk about it. So around 5:00 PM I got to a point of desperation of sorts. I got into a little bit of a panic, because I felt like I was really struggling to handle the pain and I was really struggling with the amount of time that things had felt like they were not progressing.
Again, like as a more type-A person, I really wanted things to be more linear. I think one hour equals one centimeter.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Who doesn't, really?
EmJ: And I knew that that wasn't really the case from your class. But I was still hopeful that I would, be magically like right on schedule. And that was not happening. So we had been there for four hours and I wasn't sure how much longer I could just do that on end. It felt very endless.
And so I called my sister and she gave some great advice. She was like, Have a Popsicle, ask them to bring you a popsicle. And I was like, Okay. Which it was really good. It was like one of those strawberry yummy fruit popsicles, not like a kid full sugar one. it was perfect. And then she was like, And how about you ask them if you can take a shower?
She also said, ask them if there's any other medication they can give you that's not an epidural, to just see and also to do a cervical exam. So one of my things on my birth plan was limiting cervical exams. And so again, they were very respectful of that. And I had to ask for all of mine.
Lisa: What, that is unusual.
EmJ: Yes. It was amazing. Except for the first one, of course, like at triage, they have to do that. But yes, I had to ask for all of them. So at this point of desperation, I asked for my popsicle, Nurse Olga brought me a Popsicle. And then I asked for them to do a cervical exam, and they told me I was like, five centimeters, maybe six.
And I was pissed because.
Lisa: Not what you wanted to hear.
EmJ: No, 'cause I was like, four hours ago, I was at four. Are you kidding me? And so I was like, Okay, what is the deal with medication that's not an epidural? And the doctor on staff at that time was really kind, and she was like, Well, it's too late for an epidural anyway. And also, we don't really do medications other than epidurals.
So, you don't really have a lot of options, unless you wanted to do an epidural, which I think they could have done like at that instant. But I really did not want that. That is not at all what I wanted. Just from my own vision and intuition for what I needed for my body, that was not the route that I wanted to go.
Shower as Labor Relief
EmJ: So then I asked them if I could take a shower and they did not like that request, I could tell. Because what I learned was they would have to take off the monitoring in order to do that. And they like the constant monitoring.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. That's most of our hospitals in New York, it's really hard to get around the continuous monitoring.
EmJ: Yeah. So the doctor on duty said that she would call my OB and ask if it was okay, to take me off the constant monitoring and to see what they could do about the shower situation. So she did, then they came back like 15 minutes later and they were like, Okay, we'll do it. And I was like, Good 'cause I don't know what else to do at this point.
Lisa: Seriously.
EmJ: So they like got it all prepared and at this point I was really in a state, so I don't remember everything, but Ethan got in the shower with me and he was also really worried about my dehydration at that point. And also like food intake 'cause it had been four hours at the hospital and because I was in pain, I hadn't really been eating or drinking or like wanting to, and I was really sick of water. I had also vomited twice at home. And so that was like another reason why I just didn't want to eat or drink because I was just so fearful that it wouldn't stay down essentially.
So Nurse Olga asked if we had brought coconut water and we had meant to, but we left them at home. And so she to Ethan, she was like, you go across the street, grab her some coconut water and like I'll take over shower duty.
Lisa: Ah, that's so great!
EmJ: I know. So they wrapped up my hep-lock really good.
Cause they had to do a lot of work to get me in the shower because they have to put a glove over the Hep-Lock on your hand and they have to undress you and they have to get this stool in there and they have to take off the monitoring. It is like a little bit of an ordeal. But they did it.
And then Nurse Olga took over in the shower and Ethan left and it was just me and Nurse Olga and she like, put pressure on my back. She was like changing the temperature of the water when I asked for it. Like she was getting soaked I'm sure. And, we were in there I think for 45 minutes together and then I said, I was like done. I was ready. And she brought in a whole team of nurses because she was like, Okay, I can't move you myself. And so she brought in this whole team of nurses and then all of a sudden I felt like I was just in this like weird ancestral vision of like a community of women.
Like suddenly there were like six women around me. It was magical. It felt like very
Lisa: Ah
EmJ: Magical.
Lisa: Ah, that's cool.
EmJ: Yes. Like with Olga at the head, like it was like this magical flurry of women, one of them like wrapping a towel around my hair while the other one wrapped a towel around my body while the other one put new socks on my feet while the other one was like rubbing my back and the other one was holding me up by the shoulder and guiding me to the bed.
I mean, it was so
Lisa: Am I dreaming? What is happening here?
EmJ: It was a dream at this New York hospital. Like what?
Lisa: What I'm sure they all like really curious too, because it's not so common to see an unmedicated birth and they probably all were like, Let's all go like, participate!
EmJ: Let's go see.
Lisa: This like, fluke. Not fluke. I hate to say that, anyway.
EmJ: No, it's true though. Like they all stepped up. I was like, amazing. And I felt so taken care of. And again, I feel like there was this theme of peace of mind and there was something very magical that happened when those like six women came in, and brought me to the bedside and suddenly I like sat down in the bed and I just felt this like wave of calm that I had not felt all day.
Lisa: Chills.
EmJ: And so I sat on the bed and this wave of calm. And I think I was maybe there for five minutes. I don't know. Again, it was just like this magical serenity and everything was quiet and the lights were dim and Olga was just like sitting there with me. And I remember Ethan coming in with the coconut water and asking Nurse Olga if I was okay.
He said I looked like the girl from The Ring. I was just like, kind of like sitting there like in this trance. I know well, and also my hair was wet cause I had just gotten out of the shower. So I'm sure that didn't help the imagery, to his defense, And, I remember hearing Nurse Olga say I'm just here making sure she doesn't fall forward.
'Cause I was just like sitting up in the bed and he was like, okay. And then I remembered later that you had talked about sometimes you get a break right before the hardest part of labor. That like you can have a little bit of a recovery period. I forget where exactly it's,
Lisa: Often, once we get through transition, it's really challenging but a lot of people get a little bit of a break in the contraction pattern before pushing. Is that maybe what you're referring to or thinking about? It sounds like it's flipped though for you.
EmJ: Yeah, it is what I'm thinking about. But it is, it was flipped for me. It was like before transition. But it was great
Lisa: Nice. A welcome break.
EmJ: Yeah. So I think there was like a suddenly, it felt like a long time where I didn't have contractions. It was probably not that long.
Baby Arrives
EmJ: And then, suddenly my water broke and then I felt nauseous again and I vomited a little bit and then all of a sudden it was like things were happening. Now it's only been like an hour since my like moment of desperation at 5:00 PM. Now this is like post-shower, 6:00 PM my water breaks.
Everything happened so quickly. And then my baby Wesley was born at 8:00 PM two hours later. So like, went from, seeming there was like very little to no progress for many hours to like this magical shower, these magical women coming around me happening. And then
Lisa: A shift in energy.
EmJ: Total shift in energy. Yeah. And then it just moved
Lisa: Flew
EmJ: Crazy. So that was kind of a really interesting progression. And the pushing stage was really interesting because it was for me,I felt like I had my wits about me again. Like I was very present for it. And it was something where I didn't feel pain actually.
Like I felt, very ready to like work towards the end goal. And I liked it, but I will say it was the stage that I felt was the most challenging for me because it was the stage that I didn't feel like I quite had physically prepared for. And I was trying to figure out how to push efficiently.
And my doctor, Dr. Phillips, was coaching me through it. But, in hindsight I think I wish I would've done a little bit more with a, there is a pushing class that Prenatal Yoga Center offers and I wish I probably would've done something like that 'cause it feels so different. The pushing stage from, like early and active labor.
Lisa: I wonder if that's my colleague Chantal Traub's Pushing Power.
EmJ: Yes, I think it is!
Lisa: I think she teaches that for Prenatal Yoga Center. Yeah. Yeah.
EmJ: Yes. So I wish I would've done that in hindsight, but that was like the one thing and we got through it. But also, Wesley, my baby, had a massive head. So he had 11.3 centimeter head. And even with the pelvic movement and the bones being able to move, he was a big-headed baby and he was also eight pounds, 10 ounces, so he was pretty sizable.
And my, again, my OB was really fantastic. I was pushing on my back in that like standard hospital position, like slightly reclined for a while and then eventually she had me turn to my side 'cause we just weren't making progress in the pushing stage. And that was really big too. So I'm glad she had me turn on my side.
Yeah. And then we had our baby. He just popped out. He was crying. He was good to go. I learned shortly after though, I had a big second-degree tear, which probably in hindsight, I mean, could have been avoided, like physically, but mentally, I needed to push, I needed to kind of be done.
And my doctor asked me and I remember this moment, she was like, you're like nine and a half, almost 10 centimeters. If you want to start pushing, if you feel like you can, if you feel that urge to bear down, we can do that. Or you can like, keep going for a little bit longer.
And I was like, okay, I should wait. Like in my mind, my logical brain is You should wait. So I was like, Okay, I'll wait. And then the next contraction came and I was like, I'm not waiting. I'm not waiting. I wanna push.
Lisa: It's hard when like your body just wants to, and you also kind of like mentally just wanna be done and meet your baby and yeah, it can be this challenging tug, push and pull.
EmJ: That's exactly what I was feeling was that push and pull, and I did, I like, wanted to be done and I was really struggling with the pain and I needed to get to the finish line. So I sort of muscled through that, which I'm sure is what led to the tear. But I have no regrets over that because I know that that's what I needed to do and that it was my choice and that my doctor supported me in that decision.
So that's what I did.
Supportive OB and Coaching
Lisa: Mm, that's great. I love that. It sounds like your OB gave you lots of room to drive, so to speak, to make those choices for yourself, that she said you could labor down or you can bear down now. Nice. That's so great.
That's what we need in our care providers is, listening to us and giving us choices and offering informed consent. 'Cause that's not the case with many providers. So I'm glad you worked with one who did that.
EmJ: Me too. She's amazing. I was so grateful for her. She really did empower me to make choices with my body in this journey, this birthing journey, so that it was what I wanted it to be. And was also just like hugely supportive. Yeah, she was really incredible. And also just kind of like coaching through that pushing stage, knowing that that's something I wanted.
And so she was really helpful. I think she could see that I was struggling to figure out how to do it. And she was coaching me and then Nurse Olga was on one leg and Ethan was on the other.
Lisa: I was gonna ask where Ethan was. Mhmm.
EmJ: Yep. Yep. So they were each on one leg and, I just, yeah, felt that support from the whole team, which was really huge.
And then I had my baby.
Holding Baby and Tear Repair
Lisa: Nice. And what were you feeling? Do you remember what you were feeling emotionally in those moments? Cause there is such a wide range of what people feel when they're meeting their little one for the first time outside of the womb, that is.
EmJ: Yeah, I really did feel like an immediate sense of relief and, like, I did it, it's over. Like I feel like I had crossed the finish line of a marathon and it was like the best where I was just like, Okay, cool. Now I can like power down my body and my brain a little bit and just like relish in this moment with this human being that I finally get to meet.
But it was like relief. I was definitely relieved to be done. And then I just wanted to hold him and I ended up holding him for quite a long time because of the tear. So my doctor had to do a pretty intense repair. She actually said she repaired it as if it was a third degree tear, 'cause it was a pretty intense second degree tear.
And so I just held Wesley for that whole time, which was like the best distraction and sort of medicine you could possibly have. And I don't think anything could have taken that baby away from me in that moment. But I mean, I'm glad that he didn't have any needs. So that like he could just stay there with me and so they just left him there for what felt like a really long time and I was very grateful for that.
Lisa: Oh, good. Good. Yeah. Did, as she was doing the repair, I know having your baby was a good distraction, but did you feel some pain?
EmJ: None, I didn't feel any pain when she was doing the repair. She did like lidocaine, like just a localized.
Lisa: Yeah. But even when they do lidocaine, many of us, myself included, my first time around, still feel it and in a pretty intense way. So I'm very glad, especially since yours was a little more significant, that it wasn't that.
EmJ: Me too. Yeah. It was a huge relief. Yeah, I have no idea why that was, but I think I kind of like, I don't remember feeling any pain past the pushing stage, so I was in a lot of pain, I would say, in the beginning, like both in early and active labor where I was just struggling a lot.
And then once I got to that sort of, pushing stage, I didn't have any pain, which I feel very, very fortunate.
Breastfeeding & Prior Breast Reduction Surgery
Lisa: Great. Well, where do you wanna go from here? Do you wanna go on into postpartum, feeding and healing and all of that?
EmJ: Yeah, I think we totally should. I definitely wanna share about sort of my journey with feeding cause I think it's unique and important. I had a breast reduction surgery seven years ago. And at the time, the doctor did tell me that it's possible that I wouldn't be able to breastfeed and wanted to confirm that I still wanted to go through with the surgery and also to confirm that he was gonna do the best he could to keep everything intact.
But there's so much that's being cut and so much that's very tiny, like the nerves that there's just a lot of variability. And so he did a great job explaining that. But, I definitely wanted that surgery. It was a pretty significant surgery. They took 3.3 pounds. and that surgery changed my life in such an important way.
I think that breast reduction surgery was so important. And at the time, like I didn't have a partner and I had no real thought about kids because I didn't have a partner and I had no desire to do it by myself. That wasn't something I wanted. So, I was like, I would just have this surgery.
So I did. But, I knew going into this pregnancy that now I would have to sort of circle back to that and face the repercussions, if there were any, of that choice. And so I went to Annie with City Lactation,which I got her information from you, which again, this gift that keeps on giving.
And she and I had a prenatal appointment, which Ethan also came to, and I'm really glad he did because there was a lot of information, and I think this whole process with feeding has been a lot easier because he was on the same page with the same information from day one. And so that was huge. And Annie was a big support because she offered so many sort of tools and resources to help with the feeding.
What ended up happening for us is, we had some help in the hospital. The first day we were in the hospital, we had a lactation consultant come to us. She sort of like, set me up with a latch position that worked really well, and Wesley was like nailing it. And then she left and then we like couldn't get back to that ever again.
And she didn't give us any tools for troubleshooting because when she was there, everything worked well. So, that just is sort of how it happened. And then that evening was really challenging and so the next day we sort of like begged the hospital to let us see another lactation consultant.
And they did, so they sent in actually the head of lactation and she's amazing. And she really set us up with a plan, to get us going until we were home when Annie could help us. So we were doing, like triple feeding, which is like where you are breastfeeding, like nursing, pumping, and also, like supplementing bottle feeding.
So it's really intense and we were just doing that for a couple days. And then Annie came to help us out, and gave us some options. In the end, what ended up sort of happening is that I do have a pretty good milk supply, even with the breast reduction surgery, but he struggles to latch, because of the nipple reconstruction. They're pretty flat, so I don't really have anything for him to grab onto.
And even with nipple shields, which kind of create a sort of fake nipple, he's able to grab onto that, but then the sensation isn't sending the signals to let down milk. So there's like a disconnect happening. And so we ended up making the decision to forgo nursing and switch to pumping and bottle feeding exclusively.
So that was a difficult decision. But, in the end it's definitely right for my body and our family and it's still a lot of breast milk. And also my supply was impacted a little bit, so he's getting about 75% breast milk from me, and then we supplement a little bit with formula.
Lisa: And I'm curious how you chose whatever formula you're using. Was that with the help of a lactation consultant or did you just do some research or both?
EmJ: Yeah, I had a friend who recommended the European brand HiPP, which is a powder. And so we asked Annie about it because, knowing that in the US the liquid is preferred for infants, if it was okay to sort of do that powder, European formula. And she sort of explained to us, she said, Yes, it is okay to do the powder from Europe for infants .
And explained to us sort of why that's the case, and how in the US the liquid is safer because of how they make the powdered formula here versus how they do it in Europe and the ingredients they're using there. So we ended up getting some of that formula and until it shipped to us, we did use like a little bit of the liquid bottles, the Enfamil, I think is the brand.
So we did a little bit of that until we got the powder formula to come in and so we kind of had a hodgepodge of things.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, HiPP, those European ones are some of the more popular ones among my clients. And it just seems in certain ways to be more easily digestible in terms of the quality and texture of the poop that it creates. So that's one thing that a lot of my clients have been really a big fan of when they've needed to supplement, or have chosen to supplement. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that.
EmJ: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: Great. So anything else on feeding, or else you can go on to maybe the pelvic PT consult you had?
EmJ: Yeah, I think that covers feeding. I would just say Annie is another rockstar in this story. Like I just wanna sing her praises. She's been incredible and her whole team at City Lactation has been hugely helpful. In the prenatal process, I reached out to them and her employee Amanda gave some resources about how to talk to insurance.
And that was, it was kind of like a flow chart guide, so that you could call insurance and ask them for these particular things on this sort of recorded line. And I ended up having my prenatal appointment fully covered with insurance, which was huge. Cause I have, I have Cigna and Annie was saying that, that's the first time that Cigna's ever covered an appointment for her. She was like shocked.
Lisa: I've never heard of Cigna doing that. So that's encouraging
EmJ: Yeah, so that was encouraging. I still have the other two, like the in-home visits afterwards are still pending. So I don't know if they're gonna cover fully or cover partially for those. But it was really encouraging to be able to use this sort of document, this flow chart that was compiled by a league of women lawyers to help support people in this journey of trying to get the coverage that you are entitled to by law.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
EmJ: Through the Affordable Care Act.
And so, calling them and sort of, using particular language and wording to make sure that you will get covered for it. And it worked. So, yeah, that was a huge resource as well, which I will share with you, Lisa, if you wanna put it on the...
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. I need to be sure I have that 'cause I feel like I might, but I need to check that. Thank you. Either that or I can check with Annie. She's one of my dearest friends, so we're in touch almost every day.
EmJ: Yeah, so you can, you can totally get that info that way.
Lisa: Yeah. Great. Thanks.
Pelvic Floor PT
EmJ: But yeah, I do wanna talk about the pelvic floor PT as well. So because I had this really big tear, I was really taken aback by the lack of muscle control that I had instantly. And so that was really shocking to me, that, I mean, day one at the hospital I like did not make it to the bathroom and just peed all over the floor.
Lisa: Oh no!
EmJ: And I was so mortified, because it just felt like, why is this happening? And like suddenly I don't have control over all of my body. And I just got very nervous that I wouldn't ever have it back or like I wouldn't be fully back.
And so I reached out to you about pelvic floor PTs and I remember talking in class about comprehensive care, which we don't really have here in the U.S. and how pelvic floor PTs are very common in other countries and a big part of the healing and postpartum. So I got information from you for, Natalie from Take Flight Physical Therapy, and reached out to her, I think on like day two of being home.
'Cause I was like,
Lisa: You were on it.
EmJ: I was desperate. I was scared.
Lisa: Well peeing on the floor will do it, right? Like, I need help.
EmJ: Totally. I was like, what? I've never done that. Shocking. Yeah. It totally scared me. So I reached out to her and she called me that day and she does initial over the phone consults, like 10 minute consults that are free. And that was amazing. She's, first of all, just an amazing ally, very good at what she does.
And then also this amazing listener. So I feel like she just heard me when I was telling her these fears and these, you know, challenges with muscle control that were happening. And talking about the tear. And again, I was like, put me to work. What can I do? Should I be doing Kegels every day? Like
Lisa: I'm Type A; give me all the things.
EmJ: I'm Type A. Exactly. I was like, What can I do? I'm so glad I called her so early on because she was like, I hear you. No, don't do any of those things. In like the best way. In the best way possible. Yeah. She was like, You need to rest. She was like, For the first two to four weeks for sure, your biggest thing is going to be rest.
That is the best thing you can do. And then she was like, Once you get clearance at your OB six week follow up, then you can set up an appointment with me and we'll go through some of those other things, but until that point in time, your job is to rest. And she was like, It's gonna be boring and hard.
And I was like, Oh no. But she also gave like really tangible things to sort of do slash not do. So she was like, really make sure you're trying to relieve any pressure on your pelvic floor. So she was like, I wouldn't recommend baby wearing for the first two to four weeks, because that's just more weight, and it's upright. So she was like, If you wanna hold your baby, I would recommend sitting down and being reclined, or, about walking, she was like, I really wouldn't go on that many walks in the beginning. I would really ease your way into it and don't feel like you have to, do that.
And I feel again, that was something I hadn't heard. I feel like I was like, Oh, I should be going on walks right away and get outside as much as possible. And eventually, is kind of what Natalie was saying, yes, you do wanna do that eventually you wanna work your way up to walks.
And then once you do work your way up to walks again, she was saying like, use that stroller so that you don't have that baby wearing weight pushing down on your pelvic floor. And then again, a big tip of if you've pushed it too far, your body will tell you and you'll be bleeding more. So to watch out for that, to see if you've pushed yourself and try to pull back in other places, and just rest, rest, rest.
And I was like, Okay. And I got off the phone and Ethan was like, I'm so glad she told you that. Because he knows me and he knows that, I just wanna do work, to get better. And sometimes the best work you can do is resting, is kind of what she was saying. So she was another amazing rockstar.
Lisa: Yeah, and sometimes we need to hear that messaging of rest at different points in time and from multiple sources to really get how important it is, and buy into it. As you were sharing that, EmJ, I was thinking about like before you finished all the details and all the tips she gave you when you just said the rest part of it, I could see how someone might hang up the phone and be dissatisfied with that response.
But it sounds, well, not only did she give you other actually practical tips beyond just rest, which is practical, but, it's easy for us to, in our society, in our culture to diminish the importance of that. Right. So I'm glad she gave you other practical tips as well, but I'm so glad that in that point in time you heard it from a different specialist, who specializes in this part of your body that is so important that you would like to support in its healing and everything, so that it probably landed in a different way with you than it did like prenatally, for example, when I kept harping on rest, rest in both postpartum wellness. it doesn't really like matter to you at that point, so much.
EmJ: Totally, totally. I think that was a big thing for me is I realized that from class, like that was my biggest blind spot was the postpartum class because I just wasn't there mentally. I was so focused on making sure I had the labor and delivery that I wanted, and the birth story that I wanted, that I could not, I just did not hear it.
And so I feel like, yeah, it's totally that thing of hearing from different specialists, hearing different reasons, the timing of when you're hearing things because yeah, of course, you have like friends and family like encouraging you to rest and Ethan's encouraging me to rest and like you from birthing class are encouraging rest.
And yet I like needed to hear it from this pelvic floor PT in a very specific way about what's the one to one, if you rest now, it's gonna be really healing for this part of your body. Like you said, this really important part of your body.
Lisa: And one of the other things that when you emailed me with the different tips that she gave you on that consult, the babywearing piece of it, I was so glad you gave me that reminder, through her, because that has affected how I'm teaching about baby wearing now. Even though I had heard that before, it just didn't really stick with me.
And, I was teaching on this topic in the last two nights, when I talked about, ways that partners can bond with baby, really emphasizing that hey, partners, it may be really, really supportive to her healing if you can wear the baby for the first, like couple of weeks-ish, to, take that load off of her.
Especially if you have on the larger end of the size of babies that babies can be like you did. Kind of highlighting that a little bit. Not just saying, Baby wearing's awesome. Do it from the very beginning, 'cause maybe that's not gonna support our pelvic health, especially if we have a larger tear.
Yeah, so thanks for sharing that with me and, and listeners as well.
EmJ: Of course.
Lisa: So you're gonna go back to see her around six weeks, right? You're planning on that?
EmJ: Yeah.
Lisa: Well, I look forward to hearing how that goes.
EmJ: Yeah, I'm planning on seeing her around that six week mark, pending approval from my OB. Because again, I think another thing too, I was planning on postpartum was like going straight into postpartum yoga and like trying to do that. And my OB was like, nope, not a good idea for the tear situation that I have.
And so I think getting some physical therapy at that six week mark and seeing like what's really going on, in a really comprehensive way, will be good to figure out how to move forward for the following weeks after that for the remainder of the fourth trimester.
Paid Family Leave
Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. Great. Thank you for sharing about that. So where would you like to go from here? Did you wanna share about your work and your company and the parental leave stuff?
EmJ: Yes, I would love to talk about that, because this was something that really surprised me and I feel like I fell into it in a very fortunate and lucky way, but I wanna make sure that other people get this information as well. It's been really interesting as a sort of byproduct of being pregnant in New York and doing all this preparation,how many women I've met who own businesses, including yourself. So like you and Deb at Prenatal Yoga Center, and Dr. Phillips, has her own private practice, Calla Women's Health, Annie at City Lactation, Natalie at Take Flight Physical Therapy, I mean the list just goes on and on.
And the laws are so new in terms of what we have available to us in New York now. So, I kind of went into this pregnancy thinking as, as a self-employed person, that I would just take 12 weeks off and not be paid for that time and just sort of grin and bear it and take it out of my savings and circle back to my business after that.
And a friend of mine actually asked me if I had thought about doing paid family leave through the state, and I was like, didn't know, I don't know. I just felt very taken aback by the question, 'cause I just didn't even think about it. And again, it's tricky because we don't have federal paid family leave.
And so again, all these state ones, the states that do have it, it's all very new. So I did some research and found out that in 2018, New York started this paid family leave plan that's sort of, laid out by law, as an option for getting payments. And it includes self-employed people, but there are some interesting caveats, I guess I'll say.
The biggest one being that you have to buy a policy. So it's sort of been created by the law of New York, but in order to get your paid family leave, you have to purchase a paid family leave insurance policy through a private company. And so the government has created this paid family leave, but they don't do it per se.
They're not giving it out. And so you have to sign up and you have to sign up within 26 weeks of creating your business. So that's the other tricky thing, is that you basically have six months to sign up for this policy. And if you don't do it within the first six months of creating your business, then there's a two year waiting period.
And so that's to bar against people signing up for this sort of insurance policy knowing that they're gonna go on leave.
Lisa: Got it.
EmJ: Yeah, so they're trying to prevent that, so that you're paying into this program in advance, more as like an insurance situation. And it is also coupled with disability insurance for self-employed people.
So you have to buy them both together. It's pretty affordable. It's a certain, like very small percentage of what you make, in the year. And so I think my payment was around like $350. And that covers you for the year. I was really fortunate in the sense that I incorporated my business for the first time in January.
So I found out about this policy around like week 22 of creating my business.
Lisa: Whew.
EmJ: Yeah. So like I said, I got a little lucky and fell into it a little bit, but I think like for people who are thinking about incorporating or if they have incorporated, but they're thinking about having kids or having more kids buying into your policy now, so you can start that waiting period, that two year waiting period.
Or, if you're thinking about incorporating, then make sure that you get this within the first six months of incorporating. So that you have it when you need it. And the other thing too is that I'm a business owner, but I'm the only employee with my company, so I don't have any employees.
And so that's a weird situation as well where there are a lot of insurance companies who will sell a paid family leave policy, but most of them require two or more employees on the plan. So the only one that I was able to find that would do it was New York State Insurance Fund, NYSIF, and they are required, I think by law to cover whoever.
And so they were the only ones who I found who would actually sell me a policy for one person. And so that's what I did. So that was the like $350 and then you just fill out some paperwork once you decide to go on leave, and then they send you a check in the mail every two weeks for 12 weeks and they average out basically your 52 week salary.
So if you have a Schedule C from the year prior, you take that 52 weeks and divide your salary by 52 to figure out what your weekly is, and then they give you 67% of that, which is amazing. So now I'm able to get paid family leave from the states.
Lisa: That is so cool. For some reason, I've never looked at it from the company side of things, so this is brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing that you did all this research and found this really cool thing that people should take advantage of if they can. But I thought that on the parental side of it, for some reason I thought that, one of the rules was that it had to be a company of a certain size.
So, way bigger than one person, I forget what the number was when I last looked at it, but clearly that's not correct. And good, I'm glad to hear that.
EmJ: You can be any size. If you're like me where you're the owner and you're the only employee, I think you do have to go through New York State Insurance Fund. And then if you have two or more, there's a bunch of companies, there's like a whole list on their website that will take people who have two or more.
But it is a little tricky. 'Cause a lot of what you're saying is also I think something I was running up against when I was researching this because when I was just sort of cold calling the insurance companies on the list, most of them were like, we only deal with, companies of X number of employees or like this size.
But I was like, there must be someone who covers my company because the state says I am legally entitled to this. And that was frustrating at first to see that disconnect between the private sector and the government, which I'm sure happens all the time for many reasons and in many cases. But I was able to then find New York State Insurance Fund.
And so if you're just one person, they can do it.
Lisa: Great. Yay. I am so excited that you're getting those checks!
EmJ: I know, it's a game changer, right? Like it ends being a good chunk of change. I think the maximum payout, depending on how much you make in your business, I think is like $1100 or $1300 a week. So it can be a really solid way to fund your leave. And I think people should use it like you said.
Lisa: And does Ethan get some leave?
EmJ: Yes. So Ethan is at a really lovely company where he gets four months of parental leave, fully paid.
Lisa: Yay. Too few companies offer that, that is wonderful. Oh, so glad to hear that.
EmJ: It's not gender specific, so it's just parental leave. You get your four months and his company also lets you split it up. So we are doing that as well. So right now we're both doing sort of leave together. He took four weeks for this month and then he'll do the rest of the three months, when I sort of go back to my business full-time and go back to work, then he'll sort of take over.
Lisa: Mm. I love that tag teaming.
EmJ: Yeah. Yeah. And it has been helpful for us both to be on leave for this initial period because it's
Lisa: Yeah.
EmJ: A lot.
Lisa: Yes, mm.
EmJ: Um, but it will also be nice to do a little tag teaming towards the end.
Meal Train and Community Support
Lisa: Mm. Oh, and something I wanted to circle back to, that's kind of along what we're talking about is, you had mentioned setting up a meal train for the first two weeks of postpartum and then going over your responsibilities for postpartum. I'm guessing that means like your distribution of responsibilities between you as a couple.
Do you wanna talk just briefly about any of that?
EmJ: Yes, I would love to. The meal train has been huge. So we don't have a lot of family here in New York, and so it's kind of been a lot of our chosen family, who have really stepped it up for us. And the meal train, my sister actually was sort of the organizer for it. I asked her to run it even though she's in Minnesota.
So she was the one who sent out the email and asked people to do it and kind of played point person on it, for those initial days. And then we set it up for two weeks. And it was just really nice. It was nice to have people coming every few days just to drop off some meals with leftovers that were home cooked, so we didn't have to do takeout all the time.
And it was also surprisingly nice to just see some people. So we again, didn't have anybody like visit us in the hospital, which ended up being really good for us. like we were just our little new family. But,it was really nice to have our closest friends come and bring us a meal and just like able to meet our baby and see our new family and just offer love and support in person.
So that meal train, we ended up doing takethemameal.com. It was really helpful. It was really huge.
Postpartum Responsibilities
EmJ: And then in terms of postpartum responsibilities, I, again, I think it was like one of the worksheets that you had in your resources, about who's gonna do what and sort of what our expectations were.
And also talking about fears and strategizing a little bit of what happens when tensions are high, as they're bound to be in this time when you're getting very little sleep. And, lots is happening to my body in terms of physical, hormonal changes, and so what to do. So we went through that packet together, just a few days, I think actually like the week before I gave birth.
So it was kind of last minute. But, we did it and for the most part we split it up so that Ethan was gonna be in charge of most everything except for feeding. And also like he's doing all the physical stuff. So again, in terms of pelvic floor PT protection or like pelvic floor protection, Ethan's carrying the laundry up and down the three flights of stairs in our building and yeah, and like even tasks like emptying the dishwasher where you're standing that whole time and like reaching up and cabinets and that sort of thing.
So he took on a lot of that. He took on, the diaper changing. And then that was all under the pretense that I was gonna be nursing full time. So as that sort of started to shift and evolve in that first couple of weeks, we also sort of shifted how we did things. So just being flexible because now we switched to bottle feeding.
So there is still a lot that he takes on because I have to pump and like I have to pump on this very specific sort of schedule where it's every three-ish hours. And so you wanna make sure that that happens. And so he is still doing I would say the majority of the diaper changing and other things, but he's also doing a lot of bottle feeding, which has been great and like allowing me to get some good rest in as my body is still healing.
So that, it was really nice to divvy out those roles in the beginning, but then also I think it's been good to sort of recalibrate as we go along and as the feeding schedule changes as well.
Lisa: Great. You make such a great team. I love it.
EmJ: We do. He's so great. I feel so lucky to have an amazing partner. And I am in awe of people who do this on their own. because I,
Lisa: Or in a relationship where it's an unhealthy dynamic too, like where the partner's just not helpful, Or willing to pitch in, yeah.
EmJ: Yes. Yeah. Where people are doing it on their own, even though they're living with a partner. Exactly.
Lisa: Yeah.
EmJ: Yeah. I think it's huge to have two people. There's just so many things I feel like that have happened even in these last two and a half weeks where things like come up and you have to sort of figure out, not that they're like huge hurdles, but there are things that come up that become challenges that you sort of have to work out.
Like just yesterday, this is so crazy and weird, but,Wesley, our baby had an ingrown toenail. And so, I know, and
Lisa: So early for that to happen.
EmJ: It's so early for it to happen. He was basically born with it, is what we found out, and it's super genetic. And, I didn't even know this, Ethan ended up having surgery on his toenail,because of his ingrown toenail. So it's like super common on his side of the family. And so, yeah, Wesley had this ingrown toenail that was infected and we had to figure out what to do as a team. And,we did. But it is way harder, I think, at least for me, it's been way harder to navigate those sorts of things because I'm just like so physically exhausted from the postpartum experience.
Lisa: And also just like the hormones are really hard to navigate for me. And so when things like that happen, my brain is like, your baby's in trouble. Mm. Mm-hmm.
EmJ: You like go into sort of this mode and it becomes really hard. And it's been great to have Ethan because he's such a strong rock and he's like really, has such good calm, chill vibes, that we're really good at balancing each other.
Where I'm like, there are things we have to do. Like I'm looking up what to do, I'm like trying to get things done. But that also leads me to sort of this panic and with the hormones it also leads me to be like super weepy and crying because again, I'm
Lisa: Sure.
EmJ: My baby, like he's only two weeks old. What's going on? I'm like a puddle of tears because there's this thing happening and and we work really well together 'cause he's able to listen to me and, he you know, lets me experience those emotions but also doesn't take them on, and offers just sort of this calm and reassurance and then we get through this plan and we figure it out.
And we went to a pediatric podiatrist yesterday who took care of it, and it's gonna be literally fine, but it's just, it's those things that I'm sure, we're on this new parenting journey and we have no idea what it's gonna bring. But that was like the first moment yesterday where we were like, Oh man, we've gotta take care of this child.
And we weren't anticipating this thing. And I'm sure there's many more to come and I'm sure you can
Lisa: Yes, parenting keeps us on our toes at all times. All ages.
Yeah, and this first three months is, for most people, the most intense part of it. Constant changes constantly. Like what's the new mystery today to solve?
EmJ: Yes. Constantly recalibrating. And so it's, it's really amazing to have a supportive partner who compliments me very well and we were able to work as a team to do that.
Pumping
Lisa: Yes. I'm so glad for that. This will be a really quick question and then I just wanna ask you if you had anything you haven't gotten to share that you wanted to share? I was thinking about how much you're pumping. Have you found a specific pump that really works well for you?
EmJ: Yeah, so I use the Spectra pump, and it's been working really great. Annie again gave us some great tools, so she gave us these flange inserts so that they change the size, which is great. You can plug it in or it can be cordless as well, like battery operated, to give you some flexibility.
But Annie did recommend, like with most things, if they're plugged in, they get a little bit more power. So I do keep it plugged in when I'm pumping for the most part, unless I have to be more mobile, and move around and be on the, like rechargeable. But for the most part, I use it plugged in and it's been working really well for me.
Lisa: Great. Glad to hear that. Yeah, the Spectra tends to be the top favorite, currently anyway.
Final Encouragement and Affirmation
Lisa: Any final tips or insights?
EmJ: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing I would wanna leave people with is, again, the importance of community and that if you can find a way to just step into the community a little bit, whether it be through a birthing class or through any sort of specialist, it's huge because it is tough and I think really specific for people in New York who have moved here most of the time, or a lot of people have moved here away from their families that, you can find the community that you need here.
I was really skeptical. I think Ethan was also a little skeptical that we would even be able to do this. I definitely had a moment of panic halfway through my pregnancy of what am I doing? Having a baby away from my family and away from my home, and this whole process has really taught me that like you have community here and you can find it and there are people who want to help you in this process.
And it's just opened up a whole world of amazing, like I said, amazing people, amazing business owners, amazing parents, and amazing friends that are here for this journey. So You can do it.
Lisa: Perfection. Thank you, EmJ. Thank you, thank you. I'm so grateful, particularly so early on as a parent in your state of exhaustion, that you are able to string words together. And not only that, but you've really shared things in a very meaningful way, in a way that I think will be super helpful for listeners.
So thank you. I'm sending you all so much love. I can't wait to see you in person and hopefully meet Wesley before long. and yeah, so, thanks again!
EmJ: Thank you, Lisa. Again, I'm so, so grateful. You're a huge part of that community that I was talking about and again, kind of like at the center of it in a lot of ways, which has been amazing. So thank you so much.