Sasha planned to give birth with a midwife and developed a birth plan for a peaceful, unmedicated birth. Some of her plans necessarily go out the window when, at 37 weeks Sasha is diagnosed with pre-eclampsia and has to immediately come to the hospital in the snow to be induced for the safety of her and her daughter. This story will help expectant parents think through their choices in care providers both in pregnancy as well as for baby, and also drives home the value of hiring a doula.
Resources:
Sponsor links:
Caroline Reid - midwife at Mt. Sinai West
Heather Giesa - prenatal Pilates @pilates_with_heather (IG)
Sky Spallone - doula & pilates teacher
Episode Topics:
Finds out she’s pregnant at beginning of pandemic
Picks OB nearby their home in Brooklyn but doesn’t feel like it’s the best fit
Switches to a hospital midwife around 20 weeks in midtown Manhattan
Blood pressure starting to rise in latter part of pregnancy
Sees MFM specialist, they tell her not a good idea to go past 39 weeks (this is around 32 wks)
Hires a doula, has weekly Facetimes with her
Gabe allowed at 36 week prenatal, asking midwife pre-eclampsia if she was truly at-risk, answer yes
Was due Jan 5
At 37 weeks, gets call from midwife saying she needed to come in for induction right away as protein in urine had skyrocketed
She takes a shower, Sky meets them at Mt. Sinai West
Triage not crowded (only one other person)
Tested for Covid once they were admitted
Starts with foley balloon, then pitocin at very low dose
Makes the request to not be offered epidural
Requests the epidural because of not getting any breaks due to the pitocin
Stays at 4cm for a long time overnight
Nurse Evelyn comes in on a new shift
Sky gives her a facial, turns on calm music to try to relax
Starts to feel weird pressure
Sky & Gabe supports her in early pushing with Nurse Evelyn in and out
Doctor comes in and says baby’s about to crown
She feels baby’s head
Placenta delivery - double-checks to be sure doctor checked it
2nd-degree tear and stitches
Extra bloodwork on her due to pre-eclampsia, delay in transfer to postpartum unit
Going home with baby
Breastfeeding struggles, baby loses weight, pediatrician recommends formula
Sends them to ER for jaundice, but it was just that baby was dehydrated
Switches pediatricians to a better fit
Final tips: Advocating for yourself, hire a doula, hire the best care for you
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Hi, Sasha. How are you today?
[00:00:01] Sasha: Hi, good. How are you doing?
[00:00:03] Lisa: I'm great. Thank you. So Sasha and her partner Gabe are students of mine. You guys took the virtual live class. I think it was November.
[00:00:12] Sasha: Yeah. The beginning to the end of November. Pretty much. Yeah.
[00:00:16] Lisa: Yeah. And we got to know your pet, Eloise, right?
[00:00:20] Sasha: Yes. Our first born.
[00:00:22] Lisa: What was so funny is today I went back and was reading your email baby announcement. And I got briefly confused because it was saying, "Eloise is gradually getting used to being a big sister," or something along those lines. And I was like, "Wait, wait, wait. I thought this was their first baby." And then I remembered, "Wait, pets have been mainstage front and center in the zoom virtual classes. That's right. I remember now."
[00:00:49] Sasha, would you please just introduce yourself a little bit, let us know how long ago you gave birth and maybe the neighborhood you live in, of the just essential details?
[00:00:56] Sasha: Yes. So my name is Sasha Lazare. I gave birth 10 weeks ago. I live in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn, with my husband, Gabe, and dog, Eloise. And we both work in the arts. I'm an actor and he's a filmmaker/professor.
[00:01:10] Lisa: Before we jump into your birth story, why don't you share a little bit about how your pregnancy went and the various ways you prepared for the transition into parenthood?
[00:01:20] Sasha: Yeah, so we were in -- well, I was going to say a unique position, but I think a lot of people ended up going through this -- that we got pregnant, like right at the very beginning of the pandemic. And we had been planning for it for so long and we like had a discussion when everything in New York shut down, because like we are in New York City where everyone was like, "It's terrible. It's so scary." Like it ended up being awful everywhere, but at that moment, everyone was saying that New York was the place to be afraid of. Anyways, so we discussed and we were like, "Well, you know, even if I do get pregnant this first try, they're saying that it's just going to be two weeks that we're in lockdown. So I won't have to go to the doctor until after this is all over," which now is absurd that we had that thought. But anyways, so I ended up getting pregnant right away, which was amazing, but, you know, then time went on and the pandemic was still happening.
[00:02:12] And I made my first prenatal appointment. And for so long I had been researching care providers and stuff, but then I was terrified of like basically leaving our neighborhood because this was in April, and everything was so shut down and awful. So I chose an OB/GYN that was close to us. And I just sort of went with that. I was like, "I don't really care. I just want to be close to home." And they delivered at Mount Sinai, the hospital on the Upper East Side.
[00:02:44] So I first started going to them and at my first appointment they -- of all of the appointments that I went to, except for one, Gabe wasn't allowed at any of them. So I went by myself and when they did the ultrasound, I was supposed to be seven weeks and they were saying I was like five and a half weeks. Which was not something that had even crossed my mind, that that was a possibility. It was just like, I was expecting them to be like, "Oh, all good, great."
[00:03:12] So, they were like, "Come back in two weeks and we'll check again." And that I think was like the first moment that I was like, "Maybe this isn't the right place for me, just because they didn't say any, like, encouraging words or like, I know they can't guarantee me that everything's going to be okay, but it wasn't something where they were like, "We see this a lot," you know? Here are all of the options that it could be." It was sort of just like, "Okay, come back and we'll see." So I spent those next two weeks, like agonizing... And obviously Googling, which is so bad when...
[00:03:47] Lisa: That can be scary.
[00:03:48] Sasha: Yeah. Anyways, so I went back two weeks later and it was totally fine. They were like, "Oh, here's the heartbeat. It's all good." But that, I don't know. I just, I didn't have a great first experience. So something just felt slightly off about that. And then I went to my next couple of visits with them and they were very, just, they were all perfectly nice, but they were very, very, just like medical. And I know it is like a medical situation, but I tend to be a little bit more holistic and just need like a little bit of handholding.
[00:04:21] And they were doing all these blood tests and all this stuff and not telling me what anything was for. And I was like, I would just like to be told what's going on. And I think about it now. And it's like, okay, I could have asked more questions, but I think it also was partially just like Gabe wasn't allowed there.
[00:04:37] So I was just trying to gather all of this information for myself that I could relay to him. And I didn't have someone there to advocate for me. Anyways, so then I was like, well, this pandemic is not going anywhere. I'm going to have to leave, you know, my neighborhood to go to the hospital. So I feel like I should find a provider that is just going to be a better fit for me. Even if it means that we need to travel and we do have a car. So I found this midwife Caroline Reid in Midtown Manhattan and she was associated with the hospital, with Mount Sinai West. So it was still Mount Sinai, but a different hospital.
[00:05:17] And just in researching I, this is my first pregnancy and I just, I wanted someone who was affiliated with the hospital just because I wanted to be in like a doctor's office, just in case something happened. But I did decide that a midwife sort of aligned more with just what I was looking for.
[00:05:36] Anyways, that was one of the two best decisions that I made in my pregnancy. My first visit with her was just so welcoming and lovely. And at the other place, I felt just sort of rushed along.
[00:05:47] Lisa: And had you heard of midwives before you were pregnant? I mean, like as a good option for care.
[00:05:53] Sasha: Yeah. So my mom had a midwife for both me and my brother, so yeah. So I sort of, in my mind had always planned on having a midwife when I got pregnant, just because my mom spoke so highly of it, which is why I just felt weird when I was-- and I have friends who are, who are OB/ GYNs in other states, and they're like the loveliest people.
[00:06:12] But it was just funny that like my mind went to like, "Okay, well, I'm just gonna like forget everything that I had hoped for and planned for my pregnancy and go to this doctor that I'm not excited about.
[00:06:23] Lisa: Well, the pandemic will make us think like that. Cause it sounded like you were mostly going based on location who was close to where you lived, yeah?
[00:06:30] Sasha: Yes, exactly.
[00:06:31] Lisa: That's understandable.
[00:06:34] Sasha: So my first visit with Caroline was just so positive. I just remember her asking me if I had any more questions, which like I hadn't been asked. And I was like, "Oh my God, this woman wants to actually like take care of me." I think I switched at right before 20 weeks.
[00:06:51] So that really made such a huge difference. And she was just so communicative. And the nurse, Camille, that works with her who would do all of my blood draws and everything was like, just so much fun. And it made like my prenatal appointments really fun, which I hate going to the doctor so that was a really, really good decision that I made, I think. So, yeah, so my blood pressure had been starting to go up as my pregnancy progressed and I kept being like, well, I hate going to doctors’ offices.
[00:07:25]I'm anxious because I want this baby to be okay. Like before every visit, even as the pregnancy progresses, I am always like, "Oh my gosh, I want to hear a heartbeat." Like it just, and again Gabe wasn't allowed with me. So I just felt like I was doing it all on my own. So I kept being like, "Well, I think it's high blood pressure because I'm just nervous to be here."
[00:07:48] And they were like, "Yes, totally could be that, but we can't just let you come in with this high blood pressure and not be worried. So I started tracking it at home twice a day, and then I would email it to Caroline at the end of the week. And those readings were pretty normal, but then yeah, just every time in the office it was high.
[00:08:06] And then one time I went in and it was just like, astronomically high. And she was like, "I'm debating whether I should send you to the hospital right now. Like I really, I don't like this. And so I think that was the first moment that I was like, "Oh, this could actually be an issue." So instead she just had me, I had to do the 24 hour urine test twice, which was like, where you bring a jug home, and have to pee in it for 24 hours.
[00:08:34] Yeah. I remember I had to do it one time. When they started monitoring me for preeclampsia and Gabe was like, "Oh, this is, this is like kind of funny." And then I remember I came out of the second, like the second time that they gave it to me, I came out of the office and I had the jug in my hand again.
[00:08:51] And he was like, "Not again, it was kind of funny the first time," but it's just like, yeah. So I did that and then they had me schedule an appointment with a Maternal Fetal Medicine specialist. So I had to go do that. And that was at Mount Sinai on the Upper East Side. And she was great.
[00:09:11] But yeah, she basically said she didn't want me to go past 39 weeks. Just because it was sort of scary to see how my blood pressure kept going up when it wasn't an issue before pregnancy. So this was when I was probably, it was actually when I was in your class. So
[00:09:30] Lisa: I remember talking about it. It's coming back to me as you're sharing.
[00:09:34] Sasha: So that was like, I think yeah, 32 weeks. So I was like, okay, it'll probably, you know, if I don't go into labor spontaneously, I'll be induced at 39 weeks. I don't want to be induced, but whatever. This is safest for me. And it was around that time that I was in your class that my midwife told me that they were allowing doulas at the hospital.
[00:09:56] Cause I know that for a while they weren't. And I then just didn't think to ask. And I think you mentioned it in class, Lisa, that doulas were able to start coming to the hospital. So I thought to ask my midwife and I remember her saying a good doula is worth her weight in gold. And I was like, okay, I trust anything you say, I believe it.
[00:10:15] That's nice to hear.
[00:10:16] Yeah. Yeah. So I --
[00:10:18] Lisa: There's a mutual admiration society between most midwives and doulas.
[00:10:22] Sasha: Absolutely. Yeah. Both heroic professions for sure. So I gave it to her talking about it and I was like, you know, I'm starting to feel really anxious about giving birth. I've always been a little bit afraid of childbirth just cause I have never been in the hospital for anything.
[00:10:38] And I don't like needles or any of that stuff. So we were like, I think it would make sense to hire a doula who can be there as extra support also because you know, Gabe has never helped someone through childbirth. So neither of us know what to expect. So I had been taking prenatal Pilates online with this wonderful teacher named Heather, who I really, really adore.
[00:11:02] And she recommended her friend Sky who is a doula and also a Pilates teacher. So I reached out to her and just like immediately, the first time we Facetimed, we were like, "Oh, this is the person that needs to be in the room with us."
[00:11:17] Lisa: It's so nice when you click like that.
[00:11:18] Sasha: Yes. Yes.
[00:11:19] Lisa: And that was the first doula you had interviewed?
[00:11:21] Sasha: Yeah. And we hung up the FaceTime and we were like it seems weird to just be like, we want to hire you, like, cause it seems too easy, but we were like, this is great.
[00:11:30] Lisa: In a pandemic, we'll take it; at least there's one thing that's easy.
[00:11:33] Sasha: Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I think finding that Sky, our doula, and then switching to a midwife, those two things. I'm like, thank God that I made those decisions cause they both just really like changed my pregnancy and birth experience.
[00:11:49] So we would meet once a week on FaceTime with Sky and just sort of prepare for everything. I really didn't want to be induced. Like I had always imagined like getting to go into labor at home and laboring at home.
[00:12:00] And like, we had learned all these great things in your class for what to do. And I also just didn't want to be like hooked up to a million IVs. But after a while she was like, "You know, I think that we should accept that it'll probably end in an induction because that's what they're saying is going to be safest for you if you don't go into labor before that." But she said, "I think you should ask your midwife if she's just being cautious and monitoring you for preeclampsia, or if she really thinks that you're at risk." And that was something that I hadn't thought about. I was like, "Oh, that's a really smart question to ask." So at the 36-week appointment, that was the one appointment that Gabe was allowed at.
[00:12:38] Cause it was, you know, preparing for the hospital and learning all of this information. And so I asked Caroline if she thought I was really at risk and she said, "Yeah, I do think that you're at risk." And that was really helpful to just know that like it, I think it would have scared some people, but I was like, okay, this helps that I it made me almost like, take it more seriously, which is terrible that I had been, like, I was like complaining about all these blood tests and urine tests I had to do, but I was like, okay. Someone who I really like literally trust with my life thinks that I am at risk for this. And so that, I don't know that that helped hearing that somehow.
[00:13:16] That makes sense because you, if you don't really want to be induced, you want to be convinced as much as possible that it's really necessary, you know, if and when it is. I think that's great. It sounds like you did exactly what you needed to do to have as much peace of mind as you could.
[00:13:31] Right. Yeah. And I was doing everything. I was like drinking the red raspberry leaf tea and eating dates. But I knew sort of deep down that like, this is my first pregnancy. I probably wasn't going to go into spontaneous labor at like 37 weeks or something. So anyways, this sort of leads into my birth story.
[00:13:50] Lisa: Yeah, go right ahead.
[00:13:52] Sasha: So it was in December and so I was due January 5th and when I found out my due date, I kept being like, "Oh, with my luck, it's gonna, like, there's going to be a huge snow storm the day I give birth and we're going to be driving to the hospital in the snow." So there was the first big snowstorm of the season.
[00:14:10] And it was like the next morning after it had snowed overnight and Gabe and I took Eloise for a walk and it was like just such a cozy morning. And we're like, this is so, so nice, Eloise loves the snow. Neither of us had to do anything until later in the day. And Gabe went outside to shovel the front steps and I got a call from a blocked number and I ignored it because I assumed it was spam.
[00:14:34] And then I got a voicemail and it turns out that it was Caroline, who was, it was her day off. And she was calling him from her cell phone. But I think because of hospital rules, you're not allowed to call directly on your cell phone. But, so it was the message and she was super cheerful and she was like, "Hi, it's Caroline. I just wanted to call to discuss some test results. So I'm going to keep calling you until I get a hold of you." And I was like, "Oh, this is, this is obviously not great." So Gabe came inside. And I was like, "I think that Caroline's going to tell me that like test results aren't looking great." And so she called right back and she said that my urine test had come back from my appointment two days prior.
[00:15:17] And at this point I was 37 weeks. And she said that I had doubled the amount of protein in my urine as is like healthy for a pregnant woman. So she said that I needed to go to the hospital that day to be induced. And it was like, I was totally prepared for that, but still hearing that was just like, sort of shocking and be like, "Oh, wow, okay. I'm going to the hospital to have my baby today." And. Yeah.
[00:15:45] Lisa: I assume your doula had kind of prepared you for this or maybe your midwife had or maybe both?
[00:15:49] Sasha: Yeah, they both had, and actually we had FaceTimed with our doula the night before, and she had like really prepared me for this. And it was funny later when we got to the hospital, she was like, "You know, when we hung up last night, I had a weird feeling that this was gonna happen." So it all worked out. I think we were as prepared as we could have been for this. Our bags were all packed and all that. We had our--
[00:16:14] Lisa: Yea!
[00:16:16] Sasha: That was actually like my biggest fear, like not being fully packed.
[00:16:20] Lisa: You're one of the few at that point in pregnancy that is. So, I'm so happy to hear that.
[00:16:24] Sasha: Yeah. I like usually like I'll pack for trips, like, you know, a week in advance. So I was like, "Okay, I'm glad that I'm a little neurotic." Yeah. So one of my best friends lives in our neighborhood and she has dog sat for Eloise before.
[00:16:39] So she was ready to get the call to come take care of Eloise. So we texted her, my midwife said because she works through the hospital, it's not like a midwife in a private practice, so it was her day off. So she was like, I'm not going to be there. I'll be there on Sunday probably when you're being discharged, but I'm not going to see you when you're in labor.
[00:17:01] But she prepared me for it. She told me who all the doctors that could possibly like come into the room would be, she was like, "I trust them. I'm writing them like a long email right now with everything they need to know about you." I was really sad that she couldn't be there, but it, it made me feel better that she was actually taking the time to like, make sure that I was in good hands.
[00:17:22] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. I love that she articulated all that to you and like you're saying that she took the time to like type an email and really do as much as she could to help the experience be as close to what you were hoping as possible.
[00:17:34] Sasha: Yeah. She knew exactly like what I wanted and didn't want. And so she was very sensitive to that. But, yeah, so she said you should eat a meal because they're probably not going to let you eat when you get there. Which I had all my snacks packed and so that was kind of a bummer and I did not take her advice and I hardly ate anything.
[00:17:54] Cause I was like so nervous and I regretted it the second I got there. But yeah, so I like took a shower, Gabe called our parents and was like, "We're going to the hospital. This is happening now." And sure enough, we did drive to the hospital in the snow. So I was right. And yeah, so we met our doula, Sky, there.
[00:18:13] And it was funny because we had never met in person, but I felt like I knew her so well. And she knew like everything about me because we had FaceTimed so many times. So that was kind of funny being like, "Nice to meet you." But we got very lucky. There was only one other person in triage, so we went right up. And there was a room available right away. And I remember,
[00:18:35] Lisa: Did they test you when you arrived or not until triage or not till later?
[00:18:39] Sasha: For COVID?
[00:18:40] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:18:40] Sasha: Yeah. Not until-- they tested us once we got into the delivery room. And that, yeah, that was the other thing. I knew we were going to have to be tested and if I had been induced at 39 weeks, we had an appointment where we would have gone to get tested beforehand. But yeah, so obviously since this was-- we were saying, it's like, I had really wanted that spontaneous, like, ah, we have to go experience and I didn't necessarily get that, but we were like, "We sort of got that," because like, we weren't expecting it on this like random Thursday.
[00:19:13] It was like, you know, I think we got that as much as we could have under the circumstances.
[00:19:19] Lisa: Yeah. That makes sense. Do you remember if they did the COVID test on just you or you and Gabe?
[00:19:25] Sasha: They did it on me and Gabe and Sky. Oh, I forgot to mention when Caroline called, obviously she did say you have preeclampsia, so that was why I had to go. It wasn't just like still being cautious. She was like, "The only way that you are going to not have preeclampsia anymore is if you that or your baby."
[00:19:43] Lisa: To be unpregnant.
[00:19:44] Sasha: Yes. And I mean, I'm lucky that I made it to 37 weeks before getting diagnosed because I think it would have been more complicated if I hadn't. So that I feel super, super lucky for. But yeah, so they tested all three of us, right when we got in. And I actually had never gotten a COVID test before and it was like, that was almost more uncomfortable than giving birth. It was like, really?
[00:20:07] Lisa: From the reports I've heard, it sounds like at the hospitals they go in deeper or something than just the regular testing centers you go to. Cause I've had it done three times and it hasn't been that bad. Nothing like what I've heard described in hospitals. I'm sorry. That stinks.
[00:20:25] Sasha: It was okay. It was like, I, you know, I was poked and prodded a lot that day so I was like, "Whatever, this is just part of it." But we, it was interesting. We like, they had the nurses, doctors all had full PPE on until we all got our negative results back. And then after that, you know, they didn't wear like as many layers of protection, but obviously everyone still had masks on. And Gabe and Sky and I just kept our masks on the whole time because we didn't want to be like, "Hey, can we take these off now?" So I labored in a mask.
[00:21:01] Lisa: Can we back up just for one second to triage? Was Gabe or was Sky allowed to be with you in triage?
[00:21:08] Sasha: Yeah they both were. It was weird. Because I had to go to all of my prenatal appointments alone and all this, I was prepared to do this alone and they were like, "No, come on up." Everyone was like super chill about it. But I remember we were sitting in triage and I was filling out paperwork and I heard a woman in labor and she was screaming at the top of her lungs.
[00:21:26] And Sky was like, "Don't listen to all this." And cause it was just like, "Okay. We're really here." That was like the first moment that I was like, "Oh my gosh, that is that's going to be happening." Yeah, so they started me with a Foley balloon. When Caroline called me, she had told me everything that was going to happen, which I also really appreciated her sort of walking me through it since she couldn't do it in person. So they started me with that. And then they started me on the Pitocin, which I was like, so, so dreading. But they started it at a really low dose. And you know, I had my birth plan and a lot of things that were on it, like, including "no Pitocin please" had to kind of go out the window, but the nurses were really, really good at sticking to as much as they could. And they were very clear about like, you know, some of these things we might not be able to do because, you know, it's like a sort of special circumstances. So like, we will let you know if we're not able to honor any of these things on the birth plan.
[00:22:29] Lisa: And may I ask, did your doula help you think through any special requests because it was likely you were going to need to be induced? Did you make any special requests in terms of birth preferences specifically with regard to an induction scenario such as like, did you request the Foley balloon or was that just their plan?
[00:22:48] Sasha: I did not request that, but my midwife had told me like, sort of far in advance that that's what she was hoping that I could start with. And that's what I did want to start with. But that wasn't on the birth plan, but there were some things, you know, I said I wanted to still be able to move around even if I was induced, but that wasn't a possibility, unfortunately
[00:23:11] Lisa: Because of needing to be so hooked up to so many things?
[00:23:15] Sasha: Yeah. And that was like, like I'm so afraid of IVs. I've never had an IV in my life. And so it was like kind of a surreal moment when I was just like, okay, well I am here now.
[00:23:25] It's like getting on a roller coaster and you're like, this is just, what's going to happen. And I had had like no Hep lock, but Caroline had also told me in advance, she was like, "You're gonna have to have that because you're just going to be hooked up to stuff." And if there's an emergency, they need easy access.
[00:23:41] So I really appreciated that like everyone that I was in contact with told me when they weren't going to be able to you know, follow through with my birth plan, which I really, really appreciated.
[00:23:53] Lisa: Can I ask you about the Foley balloon specifically? How did that feel? Was it painful? Was it not for you?
[00:23:59] Sasha: Yeah, it was, it wasn't painful, but it was very uncomfortable. And I never stopped feeling it. It was like, yeah. Like it wasn't as uncomfortable the entire time, but I was like super aware that it was there.
[00:24:13] Lisa: And did they tell you your dilation and effacement when you were checking in?
[00:24:16] Sasha: Yeah, so I had been dilated at one centimeter for like several weeks and that's how it was when I checked in and then I think I was 50% effaced when I got there. After that, I don't, I remember how the centimeters that it like dilated, but everything else that they told me, I like don't remember at all.
[00:24:36] Lisa: Sure. That's understandable.
[00:24:39] Sasha: I remember them saying that when I got there. So then they started me on a low dose of Pitocin. Also on the birth plan, I had said I was not against an epidural, but I said, please do not ask me. If I want an epidural, I will let you know if I want one, because I know that at some places they really, really try to encourage that.
[00:24:59] And I was really hoping to at least try it without. But then once they upped the Pitocin dose, it was like there were no breaks between the
[00:25:10] contractions.
[00:25:11] It was just like constant for hours and it was my entire body. And like my back and it was just like, I felt like I was literally dying. And so I was like, "If I'm going to be like this for hours and hours, I cannot do this." So I--
[00:25:31] Lisa: And the thing you just said about feeling like you were dying, that's where it's verging on, it could go into like the realm of being traumatic. So like just the fact that you said that if I heard anything along those lines as a doula, I'd be like, "Okay, maybe let's talk about some pain medication management options. Let's talk about our options here."
[00:25:51] Sasha: Yeah. Gabe was saying that it was like very scary, just cause he had never seen me like that before. And I, like, I couldn't talk at all. And like I said, there were no breaks, so it's not like I was like myself again for a second. It was just like, it was just awful.
[00:26:05] So I looked at Gabe and Sky and I was like, "I want an epidural." And they like looked at each other and they were like, "Okay, you're sure?" And I said, "Yes." And they were like, "Great, we'll go tell the nurse."
[00:26:15] Lisa: So were there things that your doula or Gabe tried in ways to support you leading up to that? I imagine there were, but would you mind maybe just sharing any of that?
[00:26:25] Sasha: Yeah, like a lot of massage, like massaging my feet, which I thought would, would help, but like, I think it was like too far gone. And like massaging my temples, Sky was like really pretty much kind of like massaging my whole face, but especially like my temples and my forehead. And they were both kind of like cradling me, like my head. And that was, I mean, I felt very comforted, but like just nothing helped.
[00:26:53] Lisa: That's one of the big challenges with Pitocin is creating longer, stronger, closer, together
[00:27:00] Sasha: contractions
[00:27:01] Lisa: than is really realistic for a sustainable period of time, right. For most people, it can make it, you have to have those breaks. You absolutely have to, for it to be at all manageable.
[00:27:10] Sasha: Yeah. So waiting for the anesthesiologist to come in to give me my epidural, which I don't think it was like that long, but it felt like the longest half an hour of my entire life. Sure. But once I got that, that is a decision that I definitely do not regret because I felt like myself again and was able to relax a little bit.
[00:27:31] And I was progressing really slowly, so I knew that it was going to be a little while. And I don't know what I would've done if I was in that amount of pain for what ended up being 24 hours laboring. So that was very helpful. And I remember I had asked if I was like, well, Sky, my doula was like, I think it'll help if you, if you try to go to the bathroom, like when I was in a lot of pain, cause I had said I had to pee. And the nurse was like, "Well, we have to bring you this bed pan."
[00:28:01] And I was like, I just want to go to the bathroom. So she was like, "Well, can we put this on a chair? And can she sit there?" And they said yes. So I tried and I was just in so much pain that I couldn't even pee. So when they gave me the catheter with the epidural, I remember I asked Gabe, I was like, "Will you tell me when I pee?"
[00:28:19] Just cause it's so weird. I can't feel anything. And he was like, "You've been peeing for a while now." But yeah, so that really helped and we just like relaxed and watched like baking shows and that was definitely a good decision for me.
[00:28:35] Lisa: And did Sky stay this whole time?
[00:28:37] Sasha: Yeah. So, and actually we had asked, we were like, "Are my support people allowed to like leave the hospital?"
[00:28:45] And they said that technically, yes, they could if they needed to, but then they'd have to go through screening again and everything. And I mean, they didn't really have reasons to leave. Cause there's not much going on in a pandemic. There's not anything you have to go do.
[00:28:59] Lisa: Right. And who wants a Q-tip in their brain a second time.
[00:29:02] Sasha: Exactly, exactly. So yeah, coming to check me and like time was passing. This was like the middle of the night by now. And like I had met so many nurses and a couple of doctors and shifts were just like turning over and I was staying at like four, four and a half centimeters. And I was starting to feel so discouraged about it.
[00:29:22] And so then it got to be the morning. And one of the nurses, Evelyn, who ended up being there when I delivered, she came in and she said, "Hi, I'm Evelyn. It's 7:00 AM. My shift ends at 7:00 PM. And I'm going to be here when you have your baby." And I was like, "Great. Okay.
[00:29:38] Lisa: Oh, I love that.
[00:29:40] Sasha: Yeah.
[00:29:41] Lisa: You needed to hear something encouraging.
[00:29:43] Sasha: Yeah. Yeah. Gabe and I still talk about her saying that. It's like, something about that, we're like, "Okay, great. We can do this." So the doctor that ended up delivering, she came in and introduced herself and she checked and said I was still at four and a half centimeters.
[00:29:57] And she said she was going to give me four hours and then she was going to come back and check. And I just, I was like, I'm going to need a C-section. I know that's what's going to happen. I'm just not progressing. So we like really chilled out. Sky gave me like a facial and we turned on calm music and we really tried to be as calm as possible.
[00:30:14] And then I started to be able to, I was feeling like this very weird pressure, and it was like so uncomfortable that I would have to like stop talking when it was happening. And I was just like, this is so weird. Like, I wonder what this is. I don't know why. Cause it's like, I had read so much and I had taken your class and like still, I just wasn't like...
[00:30:38] Lisa: Yeah. There's nothing-- like some of these things just experientially are so different from hearing somebody describe it, that you don't connect the dots until afterwards.
[00:30:47] Sasha: Right? Exactly. I'm like, Oh, weird. But, yeah. So then the doctor, she gave me five hours and she came back in she checked me and she was like, "All right, you're at 10 centimeters, are you ready to go?"
[00:30:56] And I was like, "Oh my God," this is like, it was just so weird to go from like, thinking that it was never going to happen to her being like, "All right, you're having your baby." So she like showed me how to push. And she was like, "A lot of times this can take a while, so I'm going to go get my team and I'll be back, like keep pushing when you have a contraction."
[00:31:12] So Gabe and Sky were helping me. And Sky is a Pilates teacher, like I said, and that was so helpful in like,
[00:31:19] Lisa: That core focus?
[00:31:21] Sasha: Yeah. So they helped me for like 20 minutes and then the team came in all the doctors and everything. And by then they were like, "Oh, her head is there." And so most of the pushing that I did was just with the two of them, which was kind of nice and like,
[00:31:35] Lisa: How cool. That's cool because usually a nurse would be assigned to not leave your side. That's so interesting. Cool, I like it.
[00:31:42] Sasha: Yeah. So our nurse, Evelyn, she was sort of in and out during that time. So she was definitely monitoring things. Yeah. But it was like a lot of the time it was just the three of us, which was yeah, really, really nice.
[00:31:53] Lisa: I wonder if that, is there a possibility that might've been based at all a little bit on your birth preferences? Was there anything in there about--
[00:32:00] Sasha: It definitely could have been. Yeah. I'm trying to remember everything that was on there, but I definitely said that I wanted some like privacy and alone moments with Gabe and my doula, so --
[00:32:12] Lisa: That could have easily made a big difference.
[00:32:14] Sasha: Yeah. That's so funny. I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned that, but that's yeah.
[00:32:18] Lisa: Yeah, just because that was the first thing that occurred to me, that you had mentioned that they were being so respectful of all of that and knowing that most of the time a nurse doesn't go away. So interesting. Something to think about.
[00:32:31] Sasha: Yeah. No, that, that's really interesting.
[00:32:33] Lisa: But they're supporting you in pushing, sorry.
[00:32:35] Sasha: Yeah. When the doctor came in, they were like, "All right, I think this is happening." And I pushed a few more times with them there. And I do not remember who it was. I was not in a state to be paying attention to people. But it wasn't the main doctor that delivered. Cause I had said before, I was like, "It's so weird that I'm gonna see what she looks like. I wonder if she has hair." For some reason, I was like, super curious about that. And she was like, "Oh, she has hair. Do you want to feel?" And I said no. And she was like, "Are you sure?" And I was like, "Okay, okay." So she helped guide my hand and it was so weird; I felt Mila's head like right there. And that was like a very, very surreal moment that she was right there.
[00:33:11] And I pushed again and then all of a sudden she came, like her arms were flailing and she just came like flying out. And yeah, it was a very positive experience. And I remember in your class learning about you know, when you deliver the placenta, make sure that the whole thing comes out. And that was something that like, that was on my birth plan.
[00:33:30] I added it right after that class when we talked about it. And so we were kind of joking about it because Sky was like, "Okay, are you going to ask, remember, like, that was something that you, you were really concerned about," but it was something that I had completely forgotten, obviously, like after I had just birthed this child.
[00:33:47] And the doctor was like, she was like, "Of course, I would never not do that," but which is good to know.
[00:33:55] Lisa: You never know; there are many doctors and midwives.
[00:33:59] Sasha: Exactly. And delivering the placenta was almost as, it obviously wasn't as intense as delivering Mila, but at the time it was like, it was super, super uncomfortable. But then it was done. And I had a second degree tear, so I did have to get stitches, which was like super, super unpleasant.
[00:34:22] Lisa: And they do a numbing shot of lidocaine. But I find that with my clients and in my own personal experience, like many of us feel a lot more than it seems like we should.
[00:34:31] Sasha: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely
[00:34:35] Lisa: The way you described it. That sounded similar to what I've heard from people.
[00:34:41] Sasha: So, yeah. And then it's just such a weird moment where like, they kind of leave you with your baby and Sky was there for a little while and then she left and then it was just like me and Gabe and Mila waiting to go to the recovery room, but it was just so, so strange that suddenly there was a human there. I know like everyone when they have a baby probably experiences that, but it was not something that you can really prepare for. Just like how amazing it is that suddenly there's this person. So, yeah.
[00:35:14] Lisa: So I assume that maybe came straight to your chest.
[00:35:17] Sasha: Yeah. Yeah, that was on my birth plan. And they had warned me because her heart rate was dropping when I was having contractions for the last couple of hours. So they did tell me that the pediatrician was going to have to come in and examine her. So it wasn't going to be able to have her on my chest as long as I had hoped, but they would give her right back to me, but they did make sure to put her on my chest first for a couple of minutes and then examined her.
[00:35:42] So obviously they weren't too concerned about, like, I think if, if there had been a problem, they would've grabbed her right away. But I really appreciated that they let me have that moment first before checking her out.
[00:35:54] Lisa: And when they took her across the room, did Gabe go over or--
[00:35:57] Sasha: Yeah. Yeah. And I could like actually see also from where I was. So I was like, I don't want to take my eyes off of this baby, but yeah, he was there monitoring too. Yeah.
[00:36:08] Lisa: Had part of your birth plan at all been delaying the cord clamping and or was that an option ?
[00:36:14] Sasha: Yeah, that was on my birth plan and that they said that they weren't going to be able to do just because of all of the various complications that came up. But that they also told me in advance. So I was prepared for that as well. Pretty much everything that like did not go as planned on my birth plan I was told that it was not going to happen, so yeah,
[00:36:33] Lisa: Better to be prepared rather than it happen just in that moment. And you'd be like, "wait, wait, wait."
[00:36:37] Sasha: Yes, exactly. Yeah.
[00:36:39] Lisa: And did Gabe cut the cord?
[00:36:41] Sasha: Yes. So he was like totally afraid of that. He's like a little squeamish and we talked about it, I was like, you know, "I'm not going to be offended if you don't cut it. Like I totally understand." But then all of a sudden she came out and the doctor handed Gabe the scissors and was like, "Okay, Dad, do you want to do it?" And he did it. I think maybe having seen me like, just do that, he was like, "Yeah, I guess [I should do it].
[00:37:06] Lisa: " It's the least I can do!"
[00:37:09] Sasha: Yeah. And like we have pictures of him doing it and I think he's very glad that he got to do it. Cause it was a special moment. So yeah. I'm glad that he ended up doing it.
[00:37:18] Lisa: Was Sky taking some pictures for you?
[00:37:20] Sasha: Yes, she asked if we wanted pictures of the actual birth. And I said yes. So there are pictures of like the whole thing, which I have yet to look at it and it might be like a year until I feel like I can look. But yeah, she took lots of pictures of both like me and Gabe and then of the actual birth. So we have plenty of those.
[00:37:40] Lisa: Oh, nice. Yeah. Too few people have anything from the labor at all, you know, until maybe at least a day after the, well, I mean, there's usually a picture of the baby, like soon after the birth, but of the mother and the family often it takes a little while.
[00:37:57] Sasha: Yeah, so by the time we got to the recovery room, it was actually pretty late. Cause they also had to do extra blood work on me because of the preeclampsia. So by the time I got to recovery, it was like, I was like ready to go to bed.
[00:38:08] And I was like, "Oh yeah, I have a newborn to take care of now. I don't get to do that." But we actually, she was not up all night. So it was, we got a little bit of sleep.
[00:38:20] Lisa: I was just wondering if you want to reflect at all on your psychological, emotional state you know, around the time of birth and then forward.
[00:38:32] Sasha: Yeah. I mean in, in regards to just like giving birth or pandemic related or--
[00:38:38] Lisa: Oh, any of that. I guess I was kind of thinking, you mentioned just that kind of shock of it being done and the baby's here.
[00:38:47] Sasha: Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. I wish I remembered more of it. Cause it was like a moment that I have been imagining like my whole life. And I remember just like saying, "Hi, hi, hi," to her over and over. Cause it was so weird that I was like literally meeting a new person. And that was like so magical, but it also was like really strange. Cause I was like, this person has been inside of me and I felt so close to her and then she came out and I was like, I actually like don't know you. You're like a little alien. It was yeah, that was very strange. And like we Gabe and I talk about this too. We both had masks on, we were like, that's so weird that we were wearing masks when Mila met her parents. You couldn't see half of our faces. So I think that not took away from the experience, but it was like very weird that we couldn't just have like our faces there that she couldn't just see our faces.
[00:39:34] Lisa: And so did you wear your mask through the entire pushing stage?
[00:39:38] Sasha: Yeah.
[00:39:38] Lisa: Oh my goodness. Many people are like, "No way, I cannot breathe. I can't keep this on." That's amazing. I'm impressed.
[00:39:45] Sasha: Yeah. I had, like, in my mind I was like, "Okay, if I like get sick of this, I'm just going to have to rip it off. I just tested negative."
[00:39:52] But then I was like in the middle of pushing and I was like, "Oh, this isn't like horrible." And then I was like, "You know, this is going to be a really cool story to tell, like giving birth in a pandemic, I'm going to tell Mila this story." So then I was like now I have to keep it on."
[00:40:05] Lisa: And you even have pictures to prove it.
[00:40:07] Sasha: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:40:12] Lisa: So then what was the rest of your stay in the postpartum unit like?
[00:40:16] Sasha: So yeah it was good. I like really struggled with breastfeeding at first. And they actually had a great lactation consultant in the hospital who came by several times. But that, that was, I feel like the hardest part just because I was like both Mila and I think were struggling with it. Like she couldn't figure out how to latch and I couldn't figure out how to like, get her to latch. And I really wasn't producing that much colostrum and that I think was one of the most stressful parts. And that actually sort of leads into when so we stayed two nights there and got released. And when we got home that first night, I mean, I think that first night home is probably very stressful for everyone
[00:40:58] Lisa: Were you checking constantly to make sure she was breathing?
[00:41:02] Sasha: We literally didn't sleep the entire night. But she was like very, very fussy and it turns out she was like very hungry and I don't know, I was feeding her regularly, but I think I just wasn't producing enough. Cause in the hospital they were like you know, expressing it for me and then putting it in the little cup and with a little dropper putting in her mouth.
[00:41:26] And they had shown me how to do that, but it didn't stick. Like I wasn't able to do it on my own once we got home, which was like, sort of scary that I felt like in the hospital, at least, you know, there are people doing it for me and then suddenly it's just us at home. And so we took her to the pediatrician for her you know, newborn visit the next day. And she, yeah, she had been really, really upset. So when she was born, she was six pounds, nine ounces. And then when they weighed her at the pediatrician, she was five pounds, 15 ounces. And I will say the pediatrician that we went to, we no longer go to, because it wasn't a great experience.
[00:42:01] I'm sorry to hear that. It's okay. I think it actually was for the best for everyone. That we ended up switching, but yeah, so they were really, really freaked out about how much weight she had lost. But it just felt a little bit like mom shaming. And it was like, not acknowledging that maybe I'm like, I've been a mom for two days and my body doesn't know how to do that. Like I had my milk hadn't come in and I--
[00:42:26] Lisa: You might need some love and affirmation?
[00:42:28] Sasha: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:42:29] Lisa: Which will help the milk to flow.
[00:42:31] Sasha: Right. So they gave her formula, which I was like, I beforehand, I was like, I really don't want my baby to be on formula. And I do think about it now.
[00:42:41] And it's like, thank goodness that she did have that because she was so dehydrated and she just needed a little help. And that's something that I think I've actually learned just in these 10 weeks of parenting. There are lots of things that like you plan for, and it doesn't go that way. And that's okay.
[00:42:57] You have to do what is gonna, you know keep your baby healthy, but so they gave us the formula while we were there, but they also were like, "She needs to go to the pediatric ER, to get checked for jaundice." Cause they had done like a skin tag test there. So we had to go to the pediatric ER and they only allow one parent.
[00:43:16] So it was just me. And that was like, I think the worst part about this whole experience. And it turned out that she was just dehydrated because she wasn't getting enough from my body, but all of it just felt very like they didn't have a lot of compassion for the fact that like we had been parents for two days and just needed some help and love. And then the next day we had to go for a weigh in and she had like already gained a couple of ounces and was totally fine. And she did not have jaundice. So that felt like something where I was like, "Okay, maybe you could have like sent us home for even an hour or two and been like, give her some of this formula and then see, then have her come get weighed again.
[00:44:03] But instead it was like go to the ER right now. So that left a pretty bad taste in our mouths, but then we switched to a different pediatrician in our neighborhood and we love her. And I have no regrets.
[00:44:16] Lisa: You switched your care provider in pregnancy, and switched-- good for you. If you haven't hired the best fit for you, move along.
[00:44:25] Sasha: Yeah. And I have to say, I think that's not something that I would have done in the past, just cause I like try to just stick to the book and just, "Okay, I'm just gonna deal with it." But I think, yeah. Once you're like pregnant and have this thing inside of you and then have the baby outside of you, it's like, no, I really want to get the best care possible, cause it's not just for me anymore.
[00:44:45] Lisa: So was there anything else you want to share about postpartum and early parenting? Anything about your healing with the stitches and everything or becoming a parent in these 10 weeks?
[00:44:56] Sasha: Yeah. The healing like physically was actually pretty, I was going to say easy but it was not easy, but I think compared to a lot of other people's experience, I didn't like bleed that much or for too, too long. And the pain went away after like a day or two of being home. But I think it's, yeah, they tell you, you know, that the first two weeks are probably going to be like emotionally hard because of hormones and this new shift.
[00:45:26] And it's not that I didn't believe that, but I think I just couldn't like comprehend, like how intense that actually would be. So the first two weeks were just like, and you're not getting any sleep. And yeah, I was just like constantly checking to see if she was breathing. And it's also just getting to know this new person that you don't know.
[00:45:43] And so like emotionally, those first two weeks were very hard. And then suddenly like one day I woke up and I was like, okay. I feel like I can be a good parent. And I felt a lot more confident and was able to just be very happy about this baby. And obviously it's not like all joyful all the time, but it was just a big shift that, that really, it was like literally after two weeks, suddenly my body was just like, "Okay, let's do this." It was--
[00:46:12] Lisa: Done with the baby blues.
[00:46:13] Sasha: Yeah, exactly.
[00:46:15] Lisa: Yeah. Oh, I'm glad to hear that because that's what we're looking for is by no later, hopefully than two or three weeks we're feeling like, okay, we're coming out of those clouds, those sort of like hormonal swings and everything. Yeah.
[00:46:26] Sasha: Although I will say, I think like postpartum depression just isn't talked about enough because now that I talk about like my birth experience and parenting and all this with friends who I am very close with who have had babies, they're like, "Oh, I had postpartum depression."
[00:46:41] And it's like, "Oh, I didn't know that." And it's just, I think it's so, so common. And it just like sounds so scary for some reason that, yeah, I think people just don't talk about it enough. And I am very lucky that at least thus far I have not had it, but it just yeah, it's, it seems like it's so common and it, but it seems like almost taboo. I think it's getting less so, but--yeah.
[00:47:08] Lisa: One thing that occurred to me as you were saying that is, I think a lot of people, if they share it with anyone, they might only have a tendency to share it with other fellow parents who have gone through that time of life. Maybe I don't know. But many people just don't talk about it.
[00:47:26] Sasha: Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, the other thing is just like, it's weird to be a new parent in a pandemic. Like, and, it's also winter, so it's like, we're pretty cooped up, regardless. But it's just like, it is so weird that most of our loved ones and friends haven't met her.
[00:47:48] We're lucky that my mom and stepdad and then Gabe's parents were able to like quarantine and drive out and be here for a big chunk of January.
[00:47:57] Lisa: I'm so glad to hear that.
[00:47:59] Sasha: Yeah, that was like so helpful and nice. My dad and stepmom live in Florida and they still haven't been able to safely come up, which is a big bummer.
[00:48:07] And my brother is in Portland and so he hasn't met her and it's just like, if it was normal times, they would have like been here when she was born. That has just been really hard, but hopefully they'll be able to meet her soon.
[00:48:23] Lisa: Well, so is there anything that you haven't gotten to share that you would like to share and/or are there any special insights or tips you would have for people on this similar journey into parenthood?
[00:48:38] Sasha: I think just the switching of care providers and really like following your gut with that, I would recommend to everyone that is going through this. And I mean, everyone is different and has a different experience, but I think, yeah, hiring a doula that we trusted and just was the right fit for us, I think that was super, super helpful. I have a friend who is just finishing up her first trimester now. And I was like, have you started looking at doulas? It, it really changed things so much. And then also just like what we learned in your class about like advocating for yourself, it seems so ridiculous that that's not something that people would automatically think of, but after like talking about it in your class, I was like, yeah. Especially at the beginning when I was with those other doctors, I just like, hadn't been doing that because like pregnancies can be scary and for first time parents, you've never been through this, so you don't know what questions to ask or if it's okay to ask these questions. And so I think, yeah, being able to speak up for yourself and ask any questions like they are there to keep you safe and answer your questions. So it's like that I think is super, super important to remember. And that goes along with, you know, finding the right care provider, finding someone who wants to answer those questions for you and is supportive of all of that.
[00:49:59] So yeah, I would say those things are all super important. And hopefully if and when we have another, not anytime soon because... But I think those are all things that I will absolutely keep in mind and I feel way better equipped now going into the future just having had those positive and negative experiences. So I will know how to advocate for myself the whole way through, for sure.
[00:50:31] Lisa: Well, thank you, Sasha.
[00:50:32] Sasha: Thank you so much. Good to see you.
[00:50:34] Lisa: You too.
[00:50:35] Sasha: Bye.