Today Emily shares her two pregnancy stories and a birth story. First, she describes experiencing pregnancy loss at 11 weeks. It surprises her when the grief was longer-lasting and more complex than she expected, but shares the essential support she discovered to help her through the journey of loss. Then Emily tells the story of conceiving her rainbow baby shortly after the Covid-19 shutdown and the many ways she and Scott prepared for giving birth, including hiring a team of 2 virtual doulas. She provides detailed strategies that helped her have the kind of birth she had hoped for (an unmedicated vaginal birth), including not only support from her husband, virtual doulas and nurses, but also laboring at home for most of labor, experimenting with a variety of positions, music, hydrotherapy, and more.
Resources:
Sponsor: Birth Matters NYC Virtual/Live/Interactive Childbirth Education Classes
No-Cost, Short-term Telephone Counseling with the Pregnancy Loss Support Program (a service of The National Council of Jewish Women New York)
Pregnancy After Loss Support Groups - NYC PALS meet up (nationwide network)
Side-Lying Release info from Spinning Babies
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
Miscarriage at 11 weeks in 2019
Loss support resources that helped her (see resources)
Giving herself the space to grieve
Took 8 months to get pregnant
While pregnant, great resource was PALS
Books she and Scott loved (see resources)
Takes down Christmas tree, shifts into baby mode
Has contractions in middle of night just a few hours later, 1 week before due date
Texts doulas, doesn’t wake Scott, they say go back to sleep
She can’t sleep so tells Scott she’s in labor
7am they decide to stop trying to sleep
Scott marks breakfast, Emily watches tv
Contractions 9-11 min apart, 45 sec long -- seems like early labor
9am - contractions getting stronger, goes to bed and gets on all fours
Sensation was low in her belly, like a clenching, Scott helping with bone broth, pillows, helping her conserve energy
11am - having to closer her eyes during contractions
Takes a shower, doing a rocking lunge
Tried birth ball and toilet, didn’t like those
Called doctor to check in, they say to call back later
Doulas give them positions to try
Starts listening to labor soundtrack - Qirtan music
Rocking a lot, being in touch with doulas by phone, video, changing forms of communication throughout labor
As things get stronger, gets less conversational and more primitive vocalization
Temperature vacillating
Contractions still spaced apart but 1-2 min long
Heading to hospital around 4pm, walking 4 blocks to get to car
Takes around 30 min to get to Weill Cornell’s new Alexandra Cohen facility
Arrival at triage, going over birth plan with attending
5:45pm - laboring room transfer
Uses hot/cold packs, music, setting up room, standing leaning on counter as well as all fours
7:35pm - starts to have doubts, call doulas for a pep me up talk, they say “you don’t have to like it, you just have to do it” and encourage her to get in shower
Vocalizations and contractions get to a new level, body starts to bear down spontaneously
Nurse starts to guide her with a stronger tone; baby’s heart can’t be found -- a whole team comes in, they switch to internal monitor and give Emily oxygen
Coached pushing for 2 pushes, tons of good energy around her, then they get OB for 2 more pushes and baby is born, only 20 minutes
Feeling shocked when baby came to chest, talking to baby
Scott chose to not cut the cord
Ring of fire -- barely noticed it
Feeling waves of grief on the other side of birth but having the support she needs
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Welcome Emily. It's so good to see you today.
[00:00:02] Emily: Thank you, Lisa. It's great to be here.
[00:00:05] Lisa: Emily is one of my students. She took the virtual birth class series back in, I think it was October during the pandemic here as everything has been virtual. And you gave birth in December, right? So it's been like about two months, right?
[00:00:19] Emily: Yes.
[00:00:20] Lisa: And do you want to share where you live and what you do for living?
[00:00:23] Emily: Definitely. Yeah, so I live in New York City and I work in schools. And like you said, my baby was born at the end of December. So it's been about two months that he has been home with us.
[00:00:36] Lisa: You're still in that fourth trimester.
[00:00:39] Emily: Yes, I am.
[00:00:40] Lisa: Exhaustion and all the newness. But you're getting close to that three month mark where you start to feel like maybe you're coming out of the clouds a little bit.
[00:00:50] Emily: I hope so. I can't wait for that day, but listen, learning to kind of take every day as it comes. So it's still been pretty awesome.
[00:00:57] Lisa: And you were saying, when we were talking before that you're taking some of the New York Paid Family Leave, is that right?
[00:01:02] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure how much time I'm going to take off this year. Because with New York Paid Family Leave, you can take it for up to a year. So I might take all of it right now through the spring, or I may go back to work a little bit sooner in the spring and then take some of it in the fall. So kind of to be determined. We'll see what happens.
[00:01:19] Lisa: Well, I'm glad you're able to take advantage of that. And I'll be sure to link to the information on New York Paid Family Leave for listeners who live in New York. It's something that almost no state offers. And while it's not ideal, almost no leave is ideal here in our country, unfortunately-- we have a long way to go-- it's something. It's at least a baby step in a good direction, right?
[00:01:40] Emily: I totally agree. And I think we're finally at the point where the program, it took many years to unroll and now we're at the highest point of the benefit. So it's a great resource for anyone who has a little one at home.
[00:01:50] Lisa: Absolutely. All right. So where do you want to begin in sharing about your journey into parenthood?
[00:01:57] Emily: Thank you for asking that question. I think I'll start just by kind of naming and acknowledging that this birth was a rainbow baby for me, which means that I had a miscarriage. Rainbow baby is a term for a baby that comes after loss -- either in utero or at childbirth or early infancy.
[00:02:14] And so this was my second pregnancy. My first baby died at 11 weeks in utero. And that was a very, very devastating experience for me in 2019. There were a couple of things that really, really helped me accept and work through that grief. I took two weeks off work and I think, I thought, "Gosh, that's a lot of time. through, I'm going to get to the bottom of this in those two weeks."
[00:02:39] And that was not the case. And so I did just want to highlight a couple of resources that that really helped me tremendously. One is the Pregnancy Loss Support program which is a service of the National Council of Jewish Women in New York. It's a resource that's open to anyone regardless of religious background or lack thereof.
[00:02:58] And they provide a no-cost telephone counseling, and that was really, really kind of paradigm changing for me, I think, because all the folks who work there have gone through loss. And the first thing they said to me was, "I'm so sorry for your loss." And that's when I understood that this was more than a two week experience, that this was really a grief that I needed to work through and I needed to let myself grieve. So that is a resource that I just really want to put out there.
[00:03:26] I know Lisa, you also send that resource out to people and I can just personally vouch that I had a phenomenal counselor. I had a phenomenal receptionist who took my information. They're just wonderful people over there. And I really hope that if anyone hears this who is struggling with grief or, just all the range of emotions after loss that they can look into that.
[00:03:48] So it took me about eight months after my loss before I became pregnant again. And that was really tough because a lot of people say, "Oh, you know, you're, you're very fertile after a loss, it's going to happen. It's going to happen." And it didn't feel that way for me. It was very sad. It was grief compounded by this fear that it wasn't going to happen again.
[00:04:08] And so once I did get pregnant again another resource that really, really was huge for me is called PALS --pregnancy after loss support groups. That's a nationwide chain --Lisa, you're going to link to it. I obviously joined the New York City group and pre COVID they would meet up in person.
[00:04:28] Now we do it online. And that was huge for me because when you are pregnant with a rainbow baby, there's so many more levels of emotions. There's so much fear. There's so much doubt. There's so much hope that's just kind of tinged with all these other emotions. It's just, for me, it felt like a much more complex experience.
[00:04:49] And one that I couldn't just only be happy about. I think a lot of times there's this expectation that pregnancy equals joy. And for many of us, it's not always that simple. And it can also just be really hard to talk about in the early weeks and even not in the early weeks. It took a long time for me to feel comfortable talking about this pregnancy, my rainbow baby pregnancy. And so that, that support group was just amazing because I was in a space where people understood those feelings, those complexities, those challenges and I feel very lucky because my group is a pregnancy and parenting after loss. So that is a bond and a relationship with people that I continue because, you know, I've kind of segued after the pregnancy part. And now I'm into the kind of parenting part with that group.
[00:05:41] Lisa: I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
[00:05:43] Emily: Please.
[00:05:43] Lisa: Had you experienced other kinds of loss in your life of close loved ones or--
[00:05:52] Emily: Yeah, I had, and I think it took a while for me to understand that the loss of a pregnancy was the same.
[00:06:00] I think I thought that for a while, I tried to kind of minimize it. That because I hadn't met my baby that it shouldn't feel as devastating as a loss in that way. When, of course, that's not the case, you know, for many people, when they find out they're pregnant, that bond has already begun.
[00:06:18] Lisa: You answered my question because my follow up question to that was were there similarities or what were the differences. So that's really good for people to be aware of. It's like we shouldn't minimize this. A loss is a loss and I would think it's emotionally fraught in maybe some different distinct ways.
[00:06:39] The other question I had was I was thinking, trying to do the math, and I think you conceived shortly before the shutdown before the pandemic hit. Is that, am I not doing the math? Right?
[00:06:50] Emily: I think my pregnancy began in April. End of March into April. So right when New York was going through a lot...
[00:06:59] Lisa: And I would think that would make carrying joy and grief along with everything else going on in the world... are there even words or what that was like?
[00:07:12] Emily: I mean, I think it was hard mostly from a support standpoint because we didn't see our parents for a very long time. I think if we hadn't been in the pandemic, if New York hadn't been hit as hard as it had, perhaps we would have gotten more support, but a lot of this pregnancy was my husband and I going through this managing all the feelings of pregnancy after loss, as well as just getting so, so much support from our family and friends, but remotely. So it was different. It was definitely harder to not have that physical...
[00:07:46] Lisa: So I kinda cut you off with those two questions. I don't know if you had more to share.
[00:07:50] Emily: I think that's kind of what I wanted to name about the experience. I will say that with my first pregnancy I had already done research and had identified a doctor.
[00:08:00] And that was Dr. Garrick Leonard and the East 80th Street practice with Weill Cornell. And I think Lisa, you have familiarity with that practice as well, right? Yes. Yes.
[00:08:09] Lisa: Positive things for sure.
[00:08:10] Emily: Yeah. And so I had such a devastating, but very meaningful relationship with them with my first pregnancy. And there was just no doubt that I wanted to go back for my second. And it felt extremely full circle. To kind of have the same continuity of care through both my pregnancies. So basically, you know, I was so thrilled I got pregnant and I just knew that this time I needed to have a lot of support.
[00:08:40] So I had my pregnancy after loss support group. Of course I had my therapist. Of course I had my family and my friends. I had my doctor. And from there I hadn't even signed up for your class yet, but I sent you an email asking for doula recommendations because I knew I wanted a doula and I was just feeling so overwhelmed with all the choices.
[00:08:59] And so you had given me a short list and from there a--
[00:09:04] Lisa: Maybe not so short.
[00:09:07] Emily: Actually. No, you're right.
[00:09:11] Lisa: It should be shorter, but there's just so many great doulas. I want to list them all.
[00:09:15] Emily: So yeah, you sent us a huge list of people and we interviewed several, you know, we got to know several people and ultimately my husband and I really, really connected with Beth and Sarah-Grace. So that is who we went with. We had some prenatal meetings with them that were really, really helpful.
[00:09:32] And one thing that I really liked is we also signed up for your class. And we did your class in October. And then with our doulas, we had several kind of late third trimester meetings and the two complemented each other so well. So you taught us so much about what labor is and just all these big basics, but then it's the holiday season, then you're still working, you have pregnancy brain, you forget it all. And then I felt so lucky that I had doulas that were very aligned, kind of in a similar vein and we could really talk about, "Okay, so this is what it actually looks like when you're doing counter pressure or you're doing it wrong, you know?"
[00:10:12] So I felt like it was very complimentary. And were your prenatals with them virtual? Yes. So my husband Scott and I had decided that we wanted to do a remote doula. Part of it was just that we knew the second wave of COVID was coming. And I had some concern that what if they did take away doulas from hospitals again, and just feeling like there was already such a lack of control being pregnant in a pandemic that this was something we could control. And so we decided from the get-go, we wanted it remote. And of course our doulas were phenomenal and had done it before, told us about what it would look like. And we were all into it.
[00:10:56] So I wanted to also just talk about three books that also kind of helped us kind of get ready. And then, and then maybe we can move on into the birth story. So one was Birthing from Within, I think this is where I need you, Lisa. I think it was birthing from within does birthing from within talk about birth intentions rather than preferences.
[00:11:17] Lisa: I think so.
[00:11:18] Emily: Okay. I think so.
[00:11:19] Lisa: That method or approach is very much about flexibility and being mentally prepared for any scenario. Yes. Staying open.
[00:11:27] Emily: Yes. Okay. So I didn't read all that book, but the parts I read from Birthing from Within about birth intentions, I thought was huge because it really helped me name: What are the intentions I have about birth? What are the ways I want to feel about going into a situation that I may have no control? A situation that I cannot predict where it's going to go? So I just found that really, really inspiring. And I enjoyed sharing that with both my partner and my doulas, so that we all kind of knew like where I was trying to go with my labor.
[00:12:02] Another book that I absolutely adored was Transformed by Birth. I really liked how it spoke just about like, realistically about like the pain and the intensity of childbirth. And it left me feeling really excited. I had read a hypnobirthing book that I felt like was talking a lot about, you know, use this guided meditation at this point and this guided meditation at that point.
[00:12:24] And I liked that Transformed by Birth was talking about how you don't have to do a set routine or steps. You just have to be open to it and be prepared for the intensity. And that it's going to be more than maybe just waves. It may also feel like pain.
[00:12:44] Lisa: Yeah. And interestingly, Dr. Britta Bushnell is the author of Transformed by Birth. And she actually did extensive training with Birthing from Within. And I think it might've even taught that method for many years and then has created her own style with the creator of Birthing from Within's blessing. So that's fun that you liked both of those books because they have that connection.
[00:13:06] Emily: And then the one that my husband loved is The Birth Partner. And so that was really helpful because it has skills, you know, for a partner and for a birthing person to discuss how they feel about pain management.
[00:13:19] You know, it talks about all the labor stages. It talks about you know, really preparing the partner for, I think the intensity of what is about to transpire. And so those three books I felt like really helped kind of get us excited and sort of like prepare us for this journey.
[00:13:35] Lisa: Nice. Do you mind telling us, sorry if I missed it, were your prenatal visits partially virtual, were they all in person? What did that look like?
[00:13:44] Emily: Oh yeah, my OB we had one virtual which was great in that Scott could be there. So that was, you know, obviously it's very hard in COVID times when your doctor won't let a partner or a supportive person come.
[00:13:56] But so I had one appointment, the first appointment where they confirmed the pregnancy. And then I had one virtual appointment, but otherwise all of the rest were in person. They were efficient. If I had questions, we could always follow up virtually or whatever, but I felt pretty safe and comfortable with how my doctor's office managed it.
[00:14:15] Lisa: And were there any health things that came up in your pregnancy or was it pretty uncomplicated?
[00:14:19] Emily: I would say physically, it was pretty uncomplicated. Emotionally it was all over the place, as to be expected, but that's the importance of having support.
[00:14:28] Lisa: Yes, absolutely. And I love it loved hearing when you listed my therapist and my group with my family. And I was like, "Oh, if only everybody could have that support, particularly when going through loss and then conceiving again and having all those complicated emotions come up. Yeah.
[00:14:47] Emily: I think it's so important for people after loss. I think it's also really important for people going through the stress of a pandemic too, you know? And I think for me, after losing my first pregnancy, I didn't want to share the news too early. So really that first trimester or the first 20 weeks was really about building my support team and figuring out, you know, who are the resources I can have and can trust to navigate this with me.
[00:15:15] Lisa: Good. So you're going to jump into the birth story or was there something else you wanted to share before...
[00:15:20] Emily: No, that was it. Okay. So my birth story. So there's sort of a long longstanding joke between Scott and I, that I would keep my Christmas tree up until February if I could.
[00:15:30] Lisa: And it is February, late February. We just decided, you know, and we still haven't decided when we're going to take it down. We're like, "maybe once the world is opening up more again." We'll see.
[00:15:40] Emily: Totally. You need joy, right? So, yeah. So Scott and I, we celebrate Christmas. We had a Christmas tree and I love my Christmas tree. I didn't want to put it down, but you know, this year we had a negotiation that the baby was going to be coming any day.
[00:15:56] Did we really want this Christmas tree up or do we need to kind of get ready, prepare for the baby. So on December 27th we kind of cleaned up the house. Sort of emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually kind of packed down some of those things and got ready for the baby chapter.
[00:16:15] Lisa: Thinking you had another week, right.
[00:16:17] Emily: Right. Well, and what's funny is yes, I think we thought we had at least a week and I was realizing on that day, you know, okay, I've sort of been in a more holiday mindset. I want to get back into preparing for baby. So December 27th, we take the tree to the recyclable area at the park. And that night I am Googling and reading birth stories.
[00:16:41] And one of the big reasons I wanted to come on this is of course, because I love your podcast. And for me, I have to say one thing I appreciate is that I'm less of a listener. I'm more of a reader. And so I really appreciate that you do transcripts. I think that, that, you know, makes it accessible to everyone, but also just for me, it's that was typically how so I was kind of learning about all the different birth stories and I really enjoyed it.
[00:17:06] Lisa: We're working on editing. They're very barely edited. So forgive any like, cause they're automatically run and then we try to edit them a little bit, but it's in a hurry.
[00:17:16] Emily: They're good. They're good. They're good.
[00:17:18] Lisa: I'm like, no one's going to read this, right? I guess somebody does!
[00:17:24] Emily: So I went to bed that night more kind of the morning of the 28th at around 1:00 AM having read some birth stories and just trying to kind of like center myself. Like, okay, this is what I need to start getting ready for. And 90 minutes later, I have my first contraction, so I slept for 90 minutes.
[00:17:44] And then I woke up, I think, around my second contraction. And I thought, "Wait a second. This is an experience I haven't had before. This is two in a row. This is really interesting." So I texted my doulas. I didn't even tell my husband at that point. Because he was sleeping
[00:18:02] Lisa: Yay, you remembered what we talked about in class!
[00:18:07] Emily: I did. I knew not to get too excited. I texted my doulas. They said the same thing you encouraged us, which is get some rest. So I, you know, I just kind of laid quietly. It was a sensation I couldn't sleep over. But I tried to just kind of get a lot of good body rest. And after a couple more contractions, I then woke up Scott.
[00:18:26] And I said, "Guess what? I think I'm having contractions." So he tried to rest with me, but I was already at that point needing to move through some of the contractions. So he went to a different room and, I just tried to stay calm. I just tried to trust that if I was having body rest, if my mind was at ease, that I would have energy for whatever laid ahead.
[00:18:50] Even if I wasn't getting the sleep that as a nine months pregnant person I really wanted. So around 7:00 AM we decided, okay. You know, there's no going back to bed. Let's move on. And so Scott made breakfast and I started watching TV, which had been sort of like my early labor plan is that I was going to distract myself in that way. I moved into the couch and it still was not painful. As I had started at 2:30, the contractions were still about nine to 11 minutes apart of about 45 seconds. And they weren't super intense. They were getting more intense, but they were not, it wasn't like a, "Oh baby time to go to the hospital."
[00:19:35] It's very clear. This was something I could handle at home and not need to sound any alarms yet. And of course, I think I had that confidence because of your birth class, as well as from preparing with my doulas about what we wanted our birth plan to look like. And that was really to do whatever it would take to have a healthy baby.
[00:19:57] But you know, if there were no complications that we were going to try to aim for an unmedicated birth, kind of low intervention. That was sort of what I was hoping for, but very open to wherever it needed to go.
[00:20:11] Lisa: And can I ask had you shared your birth intentions with your practice prenatally?
[00:20:19] Emily: Yes, yeah. Thank you. I had meant to say that earlier. So yeah, so it probably wasn't until like the 39th week, which. No, no, no, no. My baby was born on the 39th week. So it was, it was in the late weeks when I shared it with my doctor. I probably should have shared it sooner, but I had intentions and I also had a birth plan.
[00:20:37] The birth plan was very explicit. It was things like "I would not like to be offered an epidural. I will use a code word if I would like an epidural," you know? I do not want medical students you know, providing services to me -- certain things. And so I had already shared that with my doctor and he had confirmed that he was comfortable with it and that he would be fine with supporting it.
[00:20:58]We both understood that at the end of the day, it was all dependent on me and my baby's ability to tolerate labor and that anything could change. But yeah, so I had already shared it with him. And so then at about nine o'clock. The contractions were definitely getting to a point where I couldn't just like chill on the sofa anymore.
[00:21:17] So then I went to my bed and I found that I really wanted to be on all fours. That that was kind of the intuitive, sort of instinctual position that felt right for me. So, you know Scott was kind of making pillow forts and doing lots of things, pulling me up, leaning me down, trying to kind of like help so that I wasn't using too much energy at that point. And at that point I turned on a movie again, just to kind of try to distract me, but by 11, that was not working anymore.
[00:21:48] Lisa: Are you able to verbally describe what you were feeling, like, where were you feeling things in your body? Any way to describe that?
[00:21:56] Emily: Yeah, I think it felt low. It felt very low in my abdomen and it felt like a clenching. And over time I think that clenching became more uncomfortable until eventually it was its own, you know kind of. Yeah, I think my brain registered it as paint. So it was, it was a painful experience, but in the beginning it was just a clenching, it was a strong clenching that, you know, almost like a very, very intense indigestion where like, you just need to get up and move.
[00:22:29] You need to like, kind of like try to release the tension in your body so that it can kind of move through.
[00:22:35] Lisa: And somehow that all fours, I guess just felt like the best position?
[00:22:38] Emily: Yeah. I think maybe because my waist wasn't like leaning or something, you know? So at around 11, Scott was getting me bone broth. I'd already had a huge breakfast. But he had remembered the importance of, you know, supply your partner with food and nutrients while they're still hungry. You know? So at this point I'm eating and drinking a ton, super hydrated, super full. But around 11, I was starting to have to kind of like close my eyes through some of the contractions.
[00:23:07]We took a shower-- I took a shower at that point, kind of doing a lunge, kind of like a rocking lunge in the water. I tried the birth ball, which I loved in pregnancy, but it did not work. I hated it.
[00:23:22] Lisa: You just never know, right?
[00:23:23] Emily: Yeah, exactly. I tried sitting on the toilet. I thought I would love it. It was so intense. I hated it. You know,
[00:23:30] Lisa: It does make things more intense. That is a common complaint.
[00:23:33] Emily: And so around 11 to 12 is when things started to just-- it very much felt like this is labor. For a while in the beginning, you hear about prodromal labor and you're not sure if it's going to start or stop.
[00:23:47] You're not sure if it's going to take 48 hours, but by noon I was feeling like this is labor. This is consistent. And at that point it was still maybe eight to 10 minutes apart. So they weren't necessarily coming closer, but they were increasing intensity.
[00:24:02] Lisa: That frequency is such a wild card. It really is not always textbook.
[00:24:10] Emily: So at that point, we called the doctor, spoke with a nurse who, you know, was not phased about the trajectory and how things were progressing. They told us to call back later. We spoke with our doulas who gave us some positions to try; I started listening to my labor soundtrack. And a lot of it was the kind of mantras that [were] very repetitive, you know, very kind of like trancey not like it's trance music, but like trance you know, repetitive. And--
[00:24:40] Lisa: Was it hypnobirthing?
[00:24:42] Emily: No, no, it was it was Kirtan, which is a word to describe a certain music. I found that I was like still moving a lot. I still was rocking a lot. And you know, breath work was very important, but it didn't follow a prescription. It was just keep breathing, keep deep breathing. I was getting a lot of cues from my husband to do that and from the doulas, keep breathing through it.
[00:25:05] Lisa: Now were you guys on a phone call with them, were you on a video call?
[00:25:10] Emily: We did it all, and that was sort of the plan, you know. That we were just going to kind of see. There were times that I wanted them to see me. There were times, for example, they had, they were advising us on the comfort measure where you have one leg hanging over your, like at the edge of the bed and you have one leg hanging over.
[00:25:29] So, you know, they were advising us on that. Sometimes Scott was on the phone with them. Sometimes I was on the phone. We were sort of doing it all. And then I would say from about two to four that day everything ratcheted up a notch, everything, you know, the intensity really, really got intense.
[00:25:46] I started getting very hot and cold sweating and shivering. Scott says, and obviously this is true, but at that point I started becoming a lot more vocal. And less conversational. It was more kind of moaning and releasing some of that. And at that point, the contractions were probably six to eight minutes apart, but they were between one and two minutes in length.
[00:26:08] So at that point, Scott really started to think that it was getting to be about time. And we called my doctor and they really wanted to hear my voice. And you know, the nurse kind of laughed and was like, "Okay. I think you're going to meet your baby tonight or tomorrow."
[00:26:25] Lisa: Can't speak, I'm assuming, through the contractions.
[00:26:27] Emily: Exactly. I was basically just moaning on the phone with her. So at that point we were ready and Scott turned to me and he said, "I think it's time to get you to the hospital." We had discussed it before, but this was the first time where I said, "Yes, I agree. It is time."
[00:26:43] And I just knew that the intensity, the hot and the cold, everything, that I was ready to not be in my home, that I was ready to move to my birthing place.
[00:26:52] Lisa: And so this was around five-ish?
[00:26:54] Emily: This was at about four. Yeah. And in case you can't tell, I just, I do have to just shout out, you know, obviously I had a very, very involved partner. I'm so lucky, that I would never have gotten through that many hours of laboring at home, you know, if it hadn't been for Scott having read the book, having talked to the doulas, you know, really just-- it felt like we were going through this together. And that was one of my intentions is that we were going to go through this experience together no matter how it unfolded.
[00:27:24] And so I never felt alone. There was one or two times that he, you know, went to fill up the broth or something and I would immediately call him back. He was just amazing. And so, although I didn't have my doulas there, I felt like I had my doula proxy.
[00:27:37] Lisa: That's so great. I love hearing that.
[00:27:39] Emily: So it was time to go to the hospital. And that's when things got sort of interesting because the car was four blocks away and I wouldn't let Scott leave me. So we had to walk four blocks together. But the interesting thing, the reason we did it is because I actually found that walking was really, really helping my labor.
[00:28:01] Lisa: Yeah, of course it is. Yeah. That's great. It's great that you were willing and able,
[00:28:05] Emily: Well, I was hardly able,
[00:28:07] Lisa: Probably slowly.
[00:28:08] Emily: Yes. So I had four contractions on the walk there, which I'm sorry for everyone on the sidewalk who heard me, you know? But you know, I was walking like a 90 or like my 90 year old grandfather would, you know, just like slowly, slowly getting there.
[00:28:23] And then and then it took, you know, probably 30 minutes to get over the Queensboro bridge and to get to Weill Cornell Hospital. I gave birth at the Alexandra Cohen labor and delivery unit, which was kind of this new building, new wing, you know?
[00:28:40] Lisa: Yeah, I haven't gotten to work there yet. I'm eager to see what it's like and hear more about it. Was it a nice space?
[00:28:46] Emily: It's brand new. We got there at about five. There's an enormous atrium, which in COVID times is very reassuring because it's huge and there's lots of air. And we got there and the interesting thing I found about just the initial introduction into the hospital is everyone wants to offer you a wheelchair.
[00:29:06] And I had just had this incredible experience where all of a sudden walking, even though it was hard, even though it was painful, it felt like it was progressing my labor. I felt this kind of instinctual, "I need to keep doing this. This is right for me. This is good for what I need." And so as soon as I got in there, you know, obviously it's uncomfortable for people to see someone laboring intensely.
[00:29:27] And I think that's something maybe just to prepare, if folks are planning on having a birth in the hospital to just be prepared that sometimes, you know, the staff want to ease your discomfort, even though they can't. You know, I mean, we're all headed towards the baby. Like we've got a destination we've got to get to.
[00:29:46] And so, you know, they want to try to lessen some of your discomfort. And so it was sort of awkward almost because four times I got offered a wheelchair by four different people on four times, you know, and four times I had to say I couldn't even speak, but you know, my husband had to say, "She wants to walk."
[00:30:04] And so, we got into the hospital, huge, big atrium. They let you in, you go up the elevator, then you walk in and you're at the labor space. So I went to triage where they said I was five centimeters. That's where we went over the birth plan with our attending. And the attending then left, shared it with my OB. Dr. Leonard wasn't on call at that time. It was Dr. Wu and I'm so, so glad she was there. She was phenomenal. So the attending shared it with Dr. Wu, shared it with the nurses and everyone. And I just have to say, like, I felt so supported. I felt like my preferences were honored.
[00:30:46] No one asked me if I wanted an epidural. Everyone knew that I was aiming for an unmedicated birth. There was so much praise. There was so much encouragement. It was just a really, really warm space. And I was really, really happy about that because I think sometimes there can be rightfully there can be a lot of warnings, you know, "Oh, if you go to a hospital, you really have to be ready to fight for your choices," but in my experience, sharing it in the triage room really set the stage for an experience and encounters that I found were very respectful.
[00:31:18] Lisa: Did that feel like a big energy shift? Getting there, getting into triage. A lot of people just feel like, "Whoa, what just happened?" You know, coming from home where it's like private and quiet and you get here and it's a big shift. You just got done saying you felt really respected and heard, so that's great. Were they giving you paperwork to do? How did that feel emotionally for you?
[00:31:38] Emily: Yeah, they offered to give me paperwork, but I was like non-responsive. So then they quickly handed it over to the other person in the room. So yeah, so I didn't feel like I was needing to answer a lot of questions.
[00:31:50] The only question that I think they asked me was on a scale of one to 10, what's the level of pain or discomfort you're in. The thing that I felt kind of like slowed my labor a little bit was the drive. I found that I was really anxious about how long it was going to take and the red lights.
[00:32:07] And was I going to get there was this baby coming in the car, et cetera, et cetera. But then by getting to walk again, once we got to the hospital, then I really felt like I was able to get back in the zone. But I will say triage was very hard because there's those 20 minutes you're being monitored where you're on your back.
[00:32:25] And I had, at that point, over 12 hours of labor where I was, or I had 14 hours of labor at home where it was never on my back. So to then do that was very awkward. And I couldn't believe they even got a reading because I was moving so much.
[00:32:40] Lisa: But they did tell you, you have to be on your back?
[00:32:43] Emily: I don't know if they said that.
[00:32:46] Lisa: They often do and sometimes that can be harder to negotiate in triage just depending on the nurse.
[00:32:53] Emily: I didn't have that as one of my birth preferences, but I did know that at my hospital that it was going to be unlikely that I would get intermittent monitoring, but I would likely have wireless continual. So once I got into my room that was the case.
[00:33:07] So I was able to move again. So fortunately it was really just like, kind of those like 20 minutes that I was confined.
[00:33:15] Lisa: And I imagine you got through triage pretty quickly because you were so well progressed in labor, yes?
[00:33:21] Emily: It was very fast.
[00:33:22] Lisa: Do you remember how dilated you were? Did they tell you when you got admitted?
[00:33:25] Emily: Yeah, I was five centimeters. So, and of course they gave me a COVID test in triage.
[00:33:32] Lisa: Did they test Scott too?
[00:33:33] Emily: They did not. So I went into the birth room it, there was, you know, the bed and then there was also this nice kind of sofa area. So I went over to the sofa. I was, again, kind of on all fours. We had music playing again. We had hot and cold packs. And you know, I was kind of alternating between the sofa and kind of standing and leaning on a counter. And so around 5:45. I went into my laboring room.
[00:34:02] And so then for about an hour and a half I was just sort of, kind of like laboring in that space, moving a lot. And Scott and I didn't feel like, you know, there was a lot going on. In some ways it felt very similar to home because it was mostly just the two of us in the room and it was a big room, so I could move around a lot.
[00:34:21] And right around 7:35. I started feeling, I started really to have doubts. The intensity had just gotten so much. The contractions were still probably like four or five minutes apart. But it was very, very, very hard. And I was really, really starting to doubt because of course the thing was labor.
[00:34:43] You never know how long it's gonna last. And, you know, I just kept thinking, you know, "What if it's going to go on for 12 more hours?"
[00:34:52] Lisa: Doesn't that play mind games with you? In such a big, real way. Oh my goodness.
[00:34:57] Emily: It does. But of course, I had my team, so I said, "Scott, we need to call Sarah-Grace." And so we called her and I said, "I'm just," I said, "this is really hard. And I don't like it." And she said, "You don't need to like it. You just need to do it," which I just found it to be so affirming because she knew what I was trying to do. She believed in me, you know, I mean, we had talked a lot about how I needed to hear a lot of praise.
[00:35:26] I needed to hear that I could do this. And I was constantly getting that affirmation from my birth team. And, you know, just hearing that, that I don't have to like it was really, really helpful in that moment because I did not like it. That was a very hard point.
[00:35:40] Lisa: Remember that was one of the slides in birth class, except instead of like, it was love. "You don't have to love it. You just have to do it." That's so fun that they used that as well..
[00:35:47] Emily: Exactly. So, you know, so I got this great, very kind of pragmatic pump up from her and she said, "I think you should get in the shower. I think it's time to get in the hospital shower." So we went into the shower. And so this is about 7:35, I'm in the shower.
[00:36:06] And from here on, everything goes very fast. So I get into the shower and all of a sudden my contraction reaches this new level and my vocalizations reach this new level. And it goes from like, kind of moaning-ish in the family of moaning to in the family of like wild guttural release
[00:36:32] Lisa: Roaring, perhaps?
[00:36:34] Emily: Yes! And what was scaring me was at that moment, I was feeling an urge to push and my body was pushing. So, you know, Scott heard the sound and switched off the shower, put some towels on me and walked me to the hospital bed, where I, for the first time, you know, sat down and really, really started struggling.
[00:36:59] And I assume at that point I was in transition a very, very fast transition. I was yelling, "I can't do this." I was writhing. I was in very, very very strong. I was in a very intense feeling at that time. So at the time, I didn't know what happened, but all of a sudden my nurse who was so, so, so amazing, Stephanie, all of a sudden she kind of adopted a different tone and she said, "You need to put your legs down."
[00:37:28] And she started very firmly, kind of instructing me about ways I needed to move my body because what was happening was they had lost the baby's heartbeat. And you know, I was struggling to be present to that cause I was having the most intense contractions of the entire experience.
[00:37:46] And I was just screaming. And so some of this is what Scott has relayed to me. So I guess she tried, you know, for maybe a minute to try to get me into a position. She wasn't hearing what she needed to hear. She presses a bunch of buttons and then I have a lot of people come into the room.
[00:38:04] And at that moment I was so tired and I was thinking I'm so tired. And then I also thought I'm so glad all of these people are going to save me and my baby's life. And for me, that was just a very validating experience that being in the hospital was the right choice for me. So I had this whole team come in.
[00:38:24] I was given oxygen. My doctor was there. They immediately did the internal monitor on my baby's head and immediately you hear the heartbeat. Which, especially if you've gone through loss, the heartbeat is the most important sound. So in some ways it was, it almost felt like a blessing because with the continuous monitoring, you don't hear the heartbeat, beat-beat-beat, but all of a sudden I'm having this very loud, very clear reminder that my baby's heart is beating that my baby's okay.
[00:38:55] That even though this is so intense and so crazy that I have this very, very clear, audible reminder every second that my baby is okay through this with me. And so everyone came in, everyone's getting all these materials ready. My OB looks at me and she announces you're 10 centimeters and you'll be ready to push, but your body needs to relax for a moment, you know, because I had just been writhing and I was so, so, so worked up. So I was on oxygen for maybe like five or 10 minutes and you know, everyone rushes in and then everyone rushes right out.
[00:39:29] So it was sort of, you know, that was also kind of validating, like, "Okay. I'm okay." You know, even though in hospitals, things go from zero to 100, but they can also go back down.
[00:39:39] And so, so everyone left except for a PA and a nurse, my nurse, Stephanie. So I had, you know, about five to 10 minutes of just relaxing and then I had another contraction and the urge to push and I had coached pushing for two pushes. And I had so much encouragement, so much praise. And then after two pushes, they texted my OB and Dr. Wu came down and I had two more pushes. And then, you know, they brought my baby up to my chest. So it was about--
[00:40:15] Lisa: Are you saying it was four pushes and the baby was out?
[00:40:17] Emily: I'm saying it was four pushes and it was 20 minutes from when I got into the shower to when my baby was born, it was really intense. It was so, so, so, so painful. And fast.
[00:40:35] Lisa: Yeah. That's the good news, right? That like transition often can like it's so, so hard to manage and deal with, but. The harder it is to deal with. Hopefully that means the faster progress your body is making.
[00:40:49] Emily: I don't think I knew that, but after the fact, I was just so relieved that that level of intensity didn't go on forever, that it was that. So then we were in the hospital for two nights and we just had really wonderful nurses. I had not spent a ton of time with newborns. You know, I work with kids, I have nieces and nephews, but I still hadn't been around a lot of the very beginning newborn stuff.
[00:41:17] And so I felt really supported. Our nurses taught us everything about diapers and nursing and the hospital was really wonderful. We tried to kind of go in like it was almost gonna be you know, a trip. So we had, you know, all the amenities we wanted, we brought toiletries, we brought clothing.
[00:41:35] We like, you know, we, we tried to be packed. Like it was a trip we were going to enjoy. And then we got there. We had, you know, beautiful experience at this hospital, you know, wonderful nurses and support. And I just felt like that everyone was very, very concerned about both me and my baby's wellbeing and it was just the right place for us. And I was so, so glad to do it.
[00:41:59] Lisa: That's awesome. Do you mind backing up a little bit to the moment your son was born? And what did that feel like for you? What were you thinking? What were you feeling in those moments?
[00:42:10] Emily: I mean, I was feeling shock, you know what I mean? Stephanie, my nurse, when it was time to push, she said you could have this baby out in five minutes. And I thought, "What in the world?" You know, I mean, I just thought like you know, I have so many friends who have pushed for an hour and a half, you know? And so you just don't know how long these things are going to go. And so I was just dumbfounded that that part of my labor was so fast. And really that my whole labor was that fast. You know? I mean, it was I think like 16 and a half hours, which you know, maybe that's average, but also
[00:42:46] Lisa: Yeah, that's around average. But yeah. The pushing was definitely on the shorter than average length.
[00:42:51] Emily: I mean, once my baby was on my chest, I felt a huge sense of relief. I felt just total awe, you know, I mean, it was so sweet and special to have him on me. And I will say just to back up for a minute, I was really glad that I learned about internal monitoring from you because I could feel it. You know, I could feel a cord and I'm glad that I knew what that was. You know, when there's a moment, you know, when there's an unpredictable part of labor, which there often is, I felt glad that I knew what was happening, you know, and I knew why we were doing it.
[00:43:30] So I was really glad to have that information from your class as well. But yeah, when he was on my chest, he had his little hat on. He was just looking up at me with these little puffy eyes and you know, I was just kissing him and telling him, you know, "I've prayed for you. You're my rainbow baby. You're here. It was, you know, easily the happiest day of my life.
[00:43:53] Lisa: That's awesome. Given there was internal monitoring, did they need to take him away just for a moment to-- they didn't? Oh yay! Often they will take them across the room just briefly just to check them out. But I always like, why can't they do that with the baby on the chest?
[00:44:07] Emily: They actually, they kept it on him. They put the hat on, brought him right up to me, cause I could feel the cord. So he still had that cord on his head for quite a while. But no, I mean, we stayed in that room for quite a while, for much longer than an hour.
[00:44:22] And you know, eventually they dressed him and those kinds of things. But no, in the beginning they kept him on my chest and, you know, I was able to, just to kind of hold him and-- I guess he was more on my abdomen. You know, he wasn't like all the way up. But yeah.
[00:44:36] Lisa: And did Scott cut the cord?
[00:44:38] Emily: No. And that had been in our birth plan that he did not want to.
[00:44:42] Sure, there's no right or wrong.
[00:44:45] Everyone seems like surprised about, but no for us, we just wanted a doctor to do it and that's what he wanted and I was fine with it.
[00:44:55] I felt like there was a lot of preparation for this experience. And I do feel like there's probably a point where, you know, too much, but it's good to know a lot. And I was just really, really grateful for the team that we had assembled. And just for the knowledge that you and our doulas and our doctors had kind of prepared us with and it was just a really, really beautiful kind of day for me.
[00:45:20] Lisa: I'm so thankful you've shared this with us. I did have one other question. With your doulas, you said you had that phone call when you were doubting things and got that encouragement, got that encouragement to go into the shower and then things happened so fast after that, was that your last point of contact with your doulas [until] after the birth?
[00:45:41] Emily: Yeah, that was the last time. I mean, obviously we spoke to them once we went upstairs and we were in kind of like the recovery room. But that was the last time. And we had kind of discussed all of this as well, you know, that the ball would be in our court that whenever we needed them, however we needed them, that they would be there and they were, you know, I mean, they were always picking up, you know, texting, however we wanted to talk. What's funny is, I mean, I just feel like the advice was spot on, you know, I mean, going into the shower was really exactly what kind of kick-started the final phase of labor.
[00:46:15] Lisa: And I know it happened so quickly the pushing stage, but do you remember feeling the ring of fire, so to speak?
[00:46:24] Emily: Yeah, I guess so. It was definitely intense, but it was also really exciting. You know, to be at that point, it was sort of an out of body experience because I had been laboring without medication.
[00:46:39] So I was already sort of, you know, up in the sky, staring down at myself, but to finally be at the point where I was pushing was so exciting. Because for so much of the labor, I felt like I was trying to do nothing. To just be at ease. To just let it happen, to stay relaxed. But once I got to the pushing stage, it was so exciting because now I really had a job I could really sink my teeth into. So yes, I mean, I guess it was kind of like a ring of fire feeling, but I would say most of those pushes were pretty intense.
[00:47:17] Lisa: Most of all those four.
[00:47:20] Emily: Well, I mean, it was four contractions, but it was, you know, many pushes in those.
[00:47:24] Lisa: Oh, got it. Got it.
[00:47:25] Emily: But yeah.
[00:47:25] Lisa: One of my recent podcast guests, it's a podcast that will have aired by the time your story airs, but hasn't aired yet. So you wouldn't have read the transcript yet, but she talks about how grief is not linear at all. And how waves come just at the most unexpected moments. Have you experienced any waves of grief, you know, on the other side of birth?
[00:47:52] Emily: Yeah. I guess what I would say is, you know, I think that's also why it's so important to have a support group, because there's a lot of experiences through pregnancy as well as once a child is here that can remind you of certain fears or, you know, certain memories that you've had. So yeah, I mean, I think no baby is ever a replacement.
[00:48:15] The loss I went through my first pregnancy, that's something that I'll always carry with me. That's a child that I lost that, you know, I hope one day to meet in some way. The birth of my child now doesn't replace that or change that. And so I think just making space for that is how we get through it and has to happen so that you can also, you can experience it all. You can experience the joy and the sorrow because you can't really close yourself off to just one.
[00:48:44] Lisa: Thank you, Emily.
[00:48:46] Emily: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Lis. It was so wonderful to kind of relive this experience and, you know, I loved your birth class and I enjoy your podcast and I hope that my experience might help someone.