Episode Topics:

trying to go into labor, eating lots of hot sauce at 40 weeks + 4 days
water breaks at home in middle of night
eats Pad Thai before going into hospital midday
arrival at hospital, full waiting room
standard confidential abuse questions in triage
Amy’s birth photographer from her photography company
foley balloon attempted; pitocin administered
nitrous oxide and then epidural
pushing stage
relating & applying voice/breath work learned in acting training as a couple to find greater ease in pushing
cutting the cord earlier than they had planned because baby needed suctioning
beginning breastfeeding & postpartum experience / recovery
pumped milk & making breastmilk soap for baby
breastfeeding & dream feeding, infant sleep, babywearing
emotional roller coaster of the initial postpartum, partner dynamics and establishing healthy boundaries
visitors after birth -- what’s helpful vs what’s not, self-care
benefits and rationale for couples therapy in early parenthood
Gottman Institute resource recommendation -- And Baby Makes Three* & 8 Dates*, follow them on Facebook & Instagram

Resources:

**Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.**

Transcript:

Lisa: 0:00

You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, episode fourteen.

Amy: 0:04

At a certain point though, I was like a little annoyed because several people ask you multiple times the same question. Yeah, yeah, so it's kind of at times annoying, but at that point, yeah, like if they had asked me those questions seven hours later, I wouldn't have been able to really tolerate that. But I have also noticed, because I work in the hospitality industry, my tolerance for bulls**t is pretty high. I can have the chaos around me and keep my center. It's totally fine.

Lisa: 0:39

Hey there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. Did you know you can sign up to receive email updates whenever a new episode goes live? Visit birthmattersshow.com to join our podcast community.

Amy’s birth story begins with a spontaneous rupture of the membranes, laboring at home for a number of hours, eventually transferring to the hospital where the labor continues with induction and epidural. As Amy and her husband are both actors, she describes the ways in which their acting training, specifically breath work and bodywork, helped her find her groove in her 3-hour pushing stage with a fairly large baby. She also details some compelling things to consider in partner communication and establishing healthy boundaries entering parenthood, particularly in light of the hormonal roller coaster we experience after birth. Before we get started, if you'd like to receive your free Pack for Your Best Birth Checklist and my free mini-course with some expert tips for your best birth, please visit birthmattersonline.com/pack, which you can also find linked in the show notes. Okay, let's jump in.

Lisa: 2:10

Hi, Amy.

Amy: 2:12

Hi.

Lisa: 2:12

So nice to have you, I'm so thankful that you were willing to share a bit of your journey with us today. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Amy: 2:18

Sure. I'm Amy Mathews and my son's name is Torin and he's 15 months old. So he was born January 19th, 2018.

Lisa: 2:28

He had a birthday celebration not long ago then.

Amy: 2:31

Yeah, we did. It was pretty fun. He had sugar for the very first time. Took to it like a duck to water. So I guess we'll start with my birth story.

Lisa: 2:41

Great.

Amy: 2:41

So Torin was due on the 16th, so the day before he was born I did a lot of walking, and I also hit up Taco Bell and I probably had about seven of their hot sauce packets, one burrito, because I was really ready. I have no idea if that's did it or—he was very, very low and he had dropped and I was completely effaced for several weeks before giving birth.

Lisa: 3:09

And how many weeks were you at this point in time?

Amy: 3:11

I was 40 weeks and four days.

Lisa: 3:15

Okay.

Amy: 3:15

So I kept thinking it was going to come early because he had dropped and I was like, "He's right there." So yeah, on Thurs—Wednesday I had all those hot sauce packets. And then I thought just kind of, kind of a, like I had heartburn a lot towards the end and I had to go to the bathroom a lot towards the end because he was literally sitting on my, my bladder at that point. So around—I decided to go to sleep on the couch because I was tossing and turning and uncomfortable a little bit—and at about four o'clock in the morning I went to the bathroom and when I stood up I felt like I kept peeing. So then I sat back down on the toilet. But then I remembered talking to you about like the sensation of what it feels like for your water to break. So I thought, "Oh, this might be my water breaking or it could be pee. So then I stood back up so that I could catch some of the pee in my underwear so I could both smell it to see if it was urine—and I just lost complete control because it was a big gush—or if, it was my water breaking. So I smelled it and looked at it to make sure that it was clear and my water definitely broke. And so I went into the bedroom and was like, "My water just broke" to my husband, and he had just fallen asleep, I think, about an hour and a half before, and I could tell he was like, "Oh s**t." So I'm like, "Well, that doesn't really mean anything yet," because I hadn't had any contractions really.

Amy: 4:47

So I called my doctor and asked, you know, they called me back and they said, you know, "If you can feel the baby moving you can stay home for a little bit." So at that point also, he was a pretty big baby. I was very big and full and so his movements, which had been really easy to detect were starting to get a little cloudy to me anyway. So I had some juice and some eggs and I laid on my side and I could feel him moving. So I, so I stayed at home and the contractions started coming. They were painful but not horrible. And I started timing them on an app and they were kind of all over the place, though. I could, I couldn't talk through them, but I could definitely breathe through them. And I know that I as a person respond to pains kinesthetically. So like I could also kind of move through them. Funny story. I also knew that morning the water in our building was being shut off and I'm a little vain. So I was like, I want to take a shower and I want to shave my legs because, like, we're about to like have my legs all over the place. So I got up around eight o'clock in the morning to make sure that I could do that. So from four to eight I kind of like stayed in bed and tried to nap a little bit. So around eight I took a shower, we had some breakfast, and then I, as I was timing the contractions, it would be like 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes, six minutes, six minutes, six minutes, then 30 minutes. So as soon as I thought we were about to go to the hospital, I'm like, "Yeah, now it's slowed down a little bit."

Amy: 6:30

And meanwhile I'm texting my family and they think I'm crazy because they think I'm going to get stuck in traffic and have the baby on a bridge.

Amy: 6:39

So they live here.

Amy: 6:40

No, they're from Ohio.

Lisa: 6:43

No wonder. "Crazy New York!"

Amy: 6:46

I'm like, "It'll be okay. I'm not having this baby in the back of a taxi." Around noon—I knew I wanted to eat at home and I wanted to eat—like I thought about what I wanted to have right before going to the hospital because I had, I had been throwing up my entire pregnancy, so I was pretty used to that. So I'm like, even if I throw up, what are the foods that are pretty easily—easy for me to throw up but would give me a lot of both protein and carbohydrates? So I had decided beforehand that I really, really wanted to eat Pad Thai right before going into the hospital. So I'm eating my Pad Thai. My mom calls me and she's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "Just having a little lunch." She's like, "You are crazy." She's like, "Go to the hospital. You're not supposed to eat anything." And I'm like, "I think I'll be okay. I'll tell you what. I will call the doctor, though, just to check in." So I called the doctor but their office was closed from one to two. And so I'm like, "Well"—or from 12 to 1, rather, for lunch—so I'm like, "I'll just call back at 1, it's not really an emergency." So I'm very low key about this whole thing. It's pretty painful. But you know, I'm like, "Okay," like I was like, okay. And I put on "Parks and Rec." This is a rambling story, sorry.

Lisa: 8:03

No, it's great. I love these details.

Amy: 8:07

I don't have to really pay attention to it, but it's funny. And so I'm just like, I'm trying to like get the endorphins up. So I'm like, "Let's watch the things that really make me laugh out loud" so I could do it. And also I wasn't really packed. I had to things like on the table, but I didn't really know what I was going to bring. And the sad thing in New York is you can't just pack the car and leave things in the car that you might need later. Like you really have to pack everything to go to the hospital and then you're trying to like lug it to the hospital while having contractions and being big and like being like, "What's happening?" So I finally did talk to my doctor, not just the doctor at her practice that was on call. So then we got our stuff, we called an Uber or Lyft, I don't know which one. And my husband convinced me that they would have balls at the hospital and we were bringing too much stuff. Because I brought, since I was really at that time very sensitive to smells I had also brought like a diffuser with both lemon and lavender. You know, I, I was like, we brought in a puzzle to put together. And Adam's like, "You know, we really don't need the exercise ball. I'm sure that they have them there." Well they didn't. And that is my biggest regret. Because it was very uncomfortable. And I just can't find a place to be. So then, so we get to the hospital, it's around two or three, three maybe. And apparently everyone in Manhattan were having babies that day because there was no bed. There were a lot of very pregnant ladies in the waiting room. Like I couldn't even get to triage. I was in the waiting room. However, I was the only person in like active labor.

Amy: 9:45

So we were there for about 45 minutes to an hour and then there was a phone call at the front desk and I heard the resident talking to someone and I just immediately was like, "They're totally talking about me." I have no idea why I felt that way, but I'm like, "They're talking about me." And sure enough, she comes right up to me and was just like, "So, how are you feeling? You were supposed to be a direct admit because you've already been laboring for almost 12 hours, and we have to get this baby going." And I'm like, "Okay." She's like, "But are you okay?" And I'm like, "I'm okay. You know, it's painful." But like I would walk in between contractions. I was trying to breathe. There was also like a lot of time in between contractions. So I felt like I could recover and then endure. So once they did have a bed for me, I start picking up all my stuff with my husband. And it was interesting because they said, "You stay here," to my husband, "and we're going to take her in first and then you can gather all this stuff. We're gonna take her in right away." And they asked me those questions that I wasn't really prepared for about like, is there any reason I should not feel like I am safe at home? And things like that, which I realize is an amazing thing that the hospital does in order to protect the women. But I was like, "Uh, no." You know, I just didn't know that that would be something that they would ask. I was both surprised and like impressed, but also like, what are you asking? Like because it's about three or four questions before they get to that question. And so I thought that was really interesting.

Amy: 11:15

And I gave birth at, the old Roosevelt. So Mount Sinai West, they do that there. The person who checked me in was another resident, and it's a teaching hospital, and so there are people there that they're talking them through. So there's the nurse there that's obviously the old pro and then the med student who is like trying to ask the questions and like get my history and stuff. And then finally we go for the exam and she's like, "You are really effaced but you're at one centimeter." And I'm like, "That's interesting because I have been—my water broke 12 hours—more than 12 hours ago, and I've been laboring and I'm like, "I'm at one centimeter. Oh." Then I'm like, "Okay." So she said, "We're going to start you with—" my doctor, I saw Dr. Lana Selitsky, whom I really liked, who was very much into "Whatever you want to do, we're going to do it. This is your call. You're in charge, but I'm here to help you and to advise you." So I'm like, "Okay, great." It was really great. Although she said she did not want to do the birthing center. She's like, "I don't like the birthing center. I know that they clean those tubs. I just don't like it. It's gross to me." And I was just like, "Alright." She was like, "I just don't like it." She's like, "I don't do it. Sorry." And I guess, I mean if it was really important to me, I could have switched, but it wasn't, I really liked her as my doctor. Yeah.

Lisa: 12:34

Can I interrupt us to ask how you felt about the residents being there and were they there a lot through your labor?

Amy: 12:40

So, so I'm the type of person who's very much like, "Well they have to learn at some point, you know,"

Lisa: 12:48

Fair enough, yeah.

Amy: 12:48

I, a long time ago, got a Brazilian wax and it was like my third time and she was like, "I have two people who are training. Would you mind if they come?" And they're literally like speaking Portuguese. She does the thing, they put their glasses on, they look down there and they look at my hair and the strips, and I'm like, "Oh my God." And I said, "Sure, that's okay." And you know, I'm just like, this is crazy. So crazy. So for me, like nothing is as awkward as that. [Inaudible] You know, so, and I'm also a fairly open person. I have a photography company and my partner has always wanted to photograph a birth. And so she was my second person. So it was my husband. Yeah.

Lisa: 13:37

And was she there at home with you or did she meet you at the hospital?

Amy: 13:40

She met us at the hospital because I was just like, "Don't come home." I'm like, "It's just going to be me, like, 'Oooo.'" So I'm like, "Meet us at the hospital." And I'm like, "I'm not sure if I actually want to see these photos." You know, things like that and like, "but you can be there and have that experience." So I'm a fairly open person... Sometimes too open, you know? But yeah, that was not a problem. You know, at a certain point though, I was like a little annoyed because they ask you, several people ask you multiple times the same question.

Lisa: 14:09

Yes, I've seen that a lot in my doula work.

Amy: 14:11

Yeah. So it's kind of at times annoying, but at that point, my labor, like if they had asked me those questions seven hours later, I wouldn't have been able to really tolerate that. But I have also noticed, because I work in the hospitality industry, my tolerance for bulls**t is pretty high, like I can have the chaos around me and keep my center, it's totally fine.

Lisa: 14:33

Never thought about the benefit of that industry towards birth. That's great.

Amy: 14:38

Yeah. I'm just like, "It's fine. Whatever is going on here, it's okay." So the resident there, so there was the resident and the med student I guess, and I tried to get everyone's names because I had delusions of sending thank you notes, but that just didn't happen. And so she said that we were going to start with the balloon. I don't know what it's called.

Lisa: 14:58

Foley balloon.

Amy: 14:59

Thank you. Foley balloon. She's just like, "So you're effaced, you've been, you've been laboring, your water broke 12 hours ago. We don't"—they don't like to go beyond 24 even though I was okay with beyond 24, so they're like, "We would like your labor to progress a little bit faster. So let's put the Foley balloon in" because on my birth plan I really did not want to do Pitocin. So she tried to insert the balloon. But since I was a so effaced, there was nothing to insert it into. So his head is right there. There's like literally like—and the balloon is round, you know, like the end of the balloon. So there was nothing to enter it into. She tried about, I don't know, four or five times. She's like, "We really can't do this." She's like, "Dr. Selitsky would like to start you on Pitocin. It's your choice." And I was like, "I really don't want to do that." And she's just like, "Well, it gets a bad rap. It's what your body is already producing to get you started." And she's just like, "You haven't progressed much at all." Because I knew I was effaced already for a long time. So she's like, "We're going to start you on a very, very mild dose." And so I was like, "Okay." And she's like, "Do you want the epidural?" I was like, I said, "No."

Amy: 16:14

In my mind I wanted to squat to give birth. Like I had been practicing on the toilet. Every time I went to the bathroom I would like be like, "This is the position I will be in, this is the sensation it will be in.

Lisa: 16:26

Wow, you were really planning ahead.

Amy: 16:28

Well I was just thinking about it, you know, and I had also been listening to hypnobirthing. So the plans all went out the window that I had been listening to a hypnobirthing—like I read half of the hypnobirthing book and I will say this, I should have stopped reading the birthing books and started reading the parenting books.

Lisa: 16:45

A lot of people say that.

Amy: 16:47

You know, because then, you know, baby's here, and you go, "Oh, Crap!" Yeah, I'd read a hypnobirthing book. I was like, okay, I have a pretty high tolerance for pain and I'm also an actor. So like I really understand my body. I really understand how it works and how it moves. And I have very high kinesthetic awareness. So I was like, I felt—and I took your class and we took it privately. So I felt really prepared. And then we did the Pitocin and honestly the contractions came very fast and furious. And so I remember moving around the room a lot, that they had to come and constantly check because the monitors would slip. Because we didn't bring the birthing ball, I was very uncomfortable because I wanted to sit but like then lean over something, and the chair was too hard but the bed was too high. You know, little things like that. And I didn't even think about moving the bed. You know, because they're movable. I just didn't think about that.

Lisa: 17:53

Sure, you're not in that head space when you're in the heat of labor.

Amy: 17:59

My husband though I have to say was a great coach. I did buy a reboza. Is that how you pronounce it? Rebozo. Yeah, I did buy one and it was very helpful to get the weight, like the belly weight off and like pushing my butt together, like hamburger butt. That was very helpful.

Lisa: 18:15

Hamburger butt. I love that.

Lisa: 18:15

But then I also know, I remember one time just standing on my maternity bed just like high, looking around for like what looks comfortable to me. And then like the contraction would come and I would just kind of go on my hands and knees, which was most comfortable over the back of the bed. And I was holding or transferring a lot of the, because I was trying to let my vagina open so I was transferring a lot of that tension onto my shoulders. I was like really holding the pain in my shoulders. So after about seven hours of laboring with the Pitocin, I noticed I was putting a lot of it on my voice. Like, "Aaaaah," you know, I was very loud. And also Adam really was a great coach coaching me to really find one focal spot and to put the sound on that focal spot. And that seemed to be helpful. Yeah.

So then we, I, my doctor was the doctor on call that night, which was great. So she checked in on me several times and then she checked in on me about seven hours after having the Pitocin. And I was really like, "This baby has to come," because I was kind of at the end of my pain threshold and also I was getting tired and she's just like, "Nothing." And I was like, "What do you mean?" She was like, "You're still at one centimeter." And I was just like, "Oh!" It was really challenging. So then I was like, "Okay." So then she's like, "I'm going to try to open you with my fingers." And I'm like, "Okay." And that was the most uncomfortable thing I have ever felt. So then she's just like, "No, I can't. You're just too tight. Your body won't open." And I'm like, "Okay." She's like, "I think you would be happier if you got the epidural." And I'm like, "I really didn't want to do that because I want to squat and have control over my legs while giving birth." And she's like, "Well, I could try with an instrument if you'd like." And I'm like, "Okay." She's like, "But I think that now is not the time to do that and you need to rest for a little bit and you can't really rest if you're contracting under Pitocin." So of course I just said, "Okay, okay." I said, "Okay" at basically everything at this point.

Lisa: 20:40

And so then can I ask you a quick question there? Did they at any point pay attention to the exact position of your baby?

Amy: 20:50

If they did, I don't know. I didn't notice that.

Lisa: 20:53

I was just curious because dilation can be significantly affected by the variation of head-down that the baby is. So like if the baby's posterior or back to your back, that's a harder way to fit through the pelvis, and the angle of the baby's head isn't helping the cervix to dilate as efficiently and effectively. So I was just kind of wondering if—it's something that a lot of care providers don't pay much attention to, and I really wish that they would, because I feel like if we could do some proactive things, if we determined, "Oh yeah, baby's posterior, let's help the baby to rotate," then that could help avoid a lot of otherwise unnecessary interventions.

Amy: 21:32

Right. Well, as far as I know...so posterior is back birth, right, where his spine is against my spine, right?

Lisa: 21:37

The sunny side up. Yeah.

Amy: 21:38

Yeah. I don't think that that happened.

Lisa: 21:40

There's other variations too where the baby's head is kind of asynclitic. There's a....

Amy: 21:45

I felt her moving his head when she like went to open my cervix. She was, she, it wasn't like she was shy, so we didn't have a discussion about what was happening. You know, she just said "He, you know, he's right there." She's just like, "You're just not opening up." And also, you know, when people say, "You just need to relax," but like also it's impossible to relax after that much time, you know? And it was getting pretty intense.

Lisa: 22:12

And Pitocin makes it so much harder to cope with for a lot of people. Most people.

Amy: 22:16

And I will say if I had it to do over again, as soon as they were like, "You've been laboring for 12 hours, Pitocin is the next step because we can't do this balloon," I would have gotten the epidural that because like for me, you know, I don't need the award for like having the easiest. I just need a baby. So yeah. So after that I did try, I was like, so I didn't know that Roosevelt or Mount Sinai West does nitrous oxide. So I'm like, "I would like to try that next." Because the contractions at that point were coming every minute and they were completely unbearable. Now, if she had told me that I was at eight centimeters, I think I would have rallied. But I like, because I was at one centimeter, I'm like, "I cannot imagine another seven hours of this. Like I can imagine an hour and a half of this. So I, we did the nitrous oxide. Here's me thinking I could still walk around and move. And they're like, "No, no, no, you have to stay in bed." So then finally the nitrous oxide took the, and my doctor was like, "You can do it."

Amy: 23:22

But she's like, "In my, in my experience it doesn't really work." And I asked also the nurse, she, I'm like, "Does this work?" And she's just like, "You tell me in a second. We're going to try it." And I'm like, "Okay."

Lisa: 23:33

Yeah, it doesn't hurt to try.

Amy: 23:34

Yeah, exactly. But also I'm like—oh, as soon as I took it, they were like, "You have to stay in the bed because your legs," they're like, "We don't"— they didn't want me falling, is the thing.

Lisa: 23:43

That's odd. Because I had heard, at least in the birthing center, that they had let women labor next to the bed outside of the bed with nitrous only. Not with the other pain medications. But yeah.

Amy: 23:54

So for me, they're like, "We want you to stay in the bed." I don't know why. I don't know. Maybe that was just my nurse.

Lisa: 24:01

Well, yeah, it could be the nurse, could be the...yeah. So it was the nurse who was saying this, not not your care provider? Or both?

Amy: 24:06

Yes. The nurse was saying that, not my care provider. So then it was the nitrous oxide made the contractions from completely unbearable like skin-crawling pain to like bearable but like just barely. And so finally I'm just like, "Okay, we're doing the epidural because like I can't, like now I'm just uncomfortable and attached to this thing and I can't just have it and move, like I'm still like, I'm in the bed anyway at this point. Let's just do it."

Lisa: 24:36

That makes a lot of sense. Sure.

Amy: 24:37

Yeah. So I'm like, "Okay, I'm ready for the epidural." And they were, like—I had heard stories also of, "Well, you don't know where the anesthesiologist will be, so you have to like make sure you plan accordingly. Like as soon as I'm like, "I'm ready for the epidural," they were in the room. I think that they were like, "Just hang out here because she's about to go," because my doctor is, I really like her, but she's really pragmatic, you know, and she was just like, "Hmm. Okay." And she also knew what I had been going through that whole time.

Lisa: 25:09

Sure.

Amy: 25:10

Yeah. So they came right in, and we had heard stories that when—this is such a rambling story, when the...

Lisa: 25:20

I don't think you're rambling at all by the way. I think it's great.

Amy: 25:24

When the anesthesiologist comes in, the husbands have to go out of the room. We had heard those stories. So he's like, "I'll be right outside, I'll be right back." And the nurse was like, "Where are you going? You sit here and you talk to her." So, because like I was having a hard time sitting still. So they're like, "Push your lower back out, you know, and look at him" and I'm like, "Tell me a story." And of course my husband's like, "Ugh, I don't know." I'm like, "Anything, anything. Just shut my mind off of that happening right now." And I think there was a slight problem finding my spine because I had gained some weight, but you know, I was pregnant, but also I had a hard time pushing my back out. And then, you know, in my normal, after I'm in a stressor place mind, I'm like, "Oh they wanted my back to be rounded. They needed a rounded spot."

Lisa: 26:17

They often say into like a C shape.

Amy: 26:21

Yeah. I wish they would've said, "Okay, sit here, put your arms around your husband's neck and lean forward." I would've been able to do that to create that shape. But like I was sitting straight up and they wanted me to push my back out, you know?

Lisa: 26:36

So maybe it was a semantic kind of—the way they worded it that wasn't clear to you?

Amy: 26:42

Yeah, so it's one thing if your hips are steady and you lean forward to create that C, that's, that spine. It's another thing if you're standing straight up and just trying to push back.

Lisa: 26:52

Right. That makes a lot of sense.

Amy: 26:53

And I was like, I really had a hard time doing that, you know, and first of all, focusing and not moving while these contractions are happening. Because they were coming and they're like, "We'll get it in between a contraction, but you have to push your back out." And I'm like, "I don't know if I can do that." And like had I thought of it, I'm like, "Oh, they just need the spine to be round—my lumbar, my lower spine." And same thing, like once pushing like the way the nurses and doctors were talking about organizing my body was not intuitive to me, but I'll get to that. So I've got the epidural and I was immediately, it was like, "Oh, Oh," like felt much better. And then I started throwing up. So they brought in the anesthesiologist and they changed something, and they're like, "It's really common." I'm like, "Oh," I also like throughout my whole pregnancy was throwing up the entire time. So I was like, "I'm kind of used to it."

Lisa: 27:46

Not a surprise.

Amy: 27:47

Yeah. So then I laid down and I had an epidural where I could top myself up. My doctor came in though before that happened, she did an exam and then she said, "Now you're at four centimeters. I just opened you with my fingers." So I said, "Okay, great." She's like, "Take a nap. You're going to have this baby in four hours or so." I'm like, "Okay."

Lisa: 28:09

Very specific.

Amy: 28:10

Yeah, she was like, "Four hours or so." I'm like, "Okay, she's pragmatic. She is like, just the person she is." She's like, "You will have this baby." And so I took a nap. I remember my shoulders though really hurting from that stress of holding the tension in my body, they were so sore. So, but my husband gave me a little massage. I was on my side and I really could not feel my legs at all. Like at all. They were like a little tingley. We put socks on because they were cold but I could like move them, like kind of scissor them. Just like I could put my feet on top of each other or I could move the top foot just off onto the bed and that's all I could do with my legs.

Lisa: 28:52

Wow. That's more unusual these days.

Amy: 28:55

Yeah.

Lisa: 28:55

But everyone takes it slightly differently. Did they give you the tip to not stay on one side for more than 30 minutes?

Amy: 29:03

No, they did not do that. So I was on one side for too long and then I was like, "This is horrible. I have to switch over." Because like I was getting dead on one side but also, yeah. And so, but the epidural was on one side and the call button was on the other side, so like I couldn't really reach it. And my husband was sleeping and Yolan, the photographer was like, like literally, like, curled up on a chair because we'd already been there for eight hours and it was like four o'clock in the morning at this point. And so I'm like, "Help!" you know? And so finally he and the nurse helped me get to the other side. So like I kept trying to switch over but I couldn't move myself. They're like, "Do this with your legs." I'm like, "I actually can't," you know. And now I had a catheter. Yeah.

Lisa: 29:52

Did they administer that after the, they administered the epidural?

Amy: 29:56

I think around the same time. Yeah. I, I kind of wish I hadn't had a catheter because I have problems now and I wonder if that's why. So there are lots of things that I'm like, "Hmm. I wonder." I would have done a few things differently. So anyway, so I took a nap. I did switch sides at least one time because that side was like totally dead. I'm like, "I have to move. I can't, you know, do this." And around eight o'clock in the morning or so, my doctor comes in, she was about to leave with her colleague who was part of the practice as well and she's like, "You are looking great. You're almost completely dilated. In about a half hour, you're gonna start pushing." I said, "Great." They left the room and I foolishly hit the epidural because I'm like, in my crazy mind I'm like, "I'm about to start pushing!" you know, I'm like, "I might as well do this." And it really obscured the contractions for me. When I went into transition I did throw up, you know, so I knew it was like, "This is it," and I felt really bad because I threw up in the bed pan and it like ricocheted out and hit the doctor. I'm like, "Oh I'm sorry."

Lisa: 31:04

I'm sure they're used to it.

Amy:

31:08

She's like, "You didn't hit me." I'm like, "Yes, I totally did." I'm like, "She's lying to me." So anyway, I started pushing and the push–the contractions at first, during the first parts of the pushing, were very obscure and then in about 30 minutes–but like, I could still kind of like move, but, I couldn't, my feet were, my legs were still really dead and so, and heavy, so they're like, "Pull your legs up." And I really couldn't. And like I was like, "I can't actually pull my legs up." And during this time also, Torin was a fairly big baby. He was between eight and nine pounds. I was expecting him to be over nine pounds. I was like, really, like, I was a big baby. My husband was a big baby. He's gonna be a big kid. He was like eight pounds, nine ounces. So a big baby, not crazy big. I remember during the contractions I could feel that they were coming. I could feel pressure against my pelvic floor, but I also could feel like crazy amounts of pain kind of where you get running stitches like, like late, at the, my diaphragm, on the left side. And I, I couldn't push through that. And I thought–I was really also a little cocky because I've done so much breathing work as an actor. I thought, "Oh, I'm going to do really well. Like, I know my body so well" and like as I'm pushing, I like–all of that knowledge went out the window. I'm pushing and the stress is in my face. And I was like, "Oh yeah, like what?" I'm like, "My face hurts. I can't push anymore." And then they're like, "Relax your face. It's not from your face, it's from, from here." And I'm like, "Duh." You know? And both my husband and I are...

Lisa: 32:53

It happens to all of us.

Amy:

32:55

Yeah. My husband and I like do a lot of like breath work and Fitzmaurice voice and know how to release tension. We know how to let like our rib cage swing open. So like, then my husband kind of went into high gear as like a coach and he was just like, "Breathe into my hands," you know? And so he put his hands on my rib cage, and he's like, "Now you're going to push." And I had like about three pushes per contraction, but it was still really painful. I felt like I couldn't push beyond my diaphragm because there was pain way up there, and the doctor was like, "The baby is trying to help you get him out." And he was a little bit stuck in the birth [canal.] I would push, push, push, push, push. But I was not able to push him past where he already was because then when I relaxed, he like slid back up. So then she's like, "You have to push him through." So finally I was like, "Okay," and this is before like, like I'm like, "He's coming down the birth canal. That's fine." So like I was like literally taking my hands and pushing it through my legs. So like to give myself a bit of a, I dunno, put it again into a different part of my body to be like, "This is where he is. I need to go much beyond that."

Lisa: 34:04

As an actor, did you ever do singing training?

Amy: 34:07

Yes.

Lisa: 34:07

I remember doing a lot of handwork with my tones and singing lessons. So that makes a lot of sense to me.

Amy: 34:16

Yes. And I had done that with tones as a kid, but more so like getting the, the, the active voice out and onto something else. I'd often be like, like "Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah." You know, as you say—especially working Shakespeare text—you think of it traveling to a place and you know, it's much easier to start by using your hand as you say the text. It is traveling to the person, you know, with whatever color you want to paint them or whatever, however, whatever images stick work you're doing. Or I've done stuff before, especially with lists where you pretend like you have like letters and you're putting them into different mailboxes/slots, you know, so it's this and this and this and this. So it is, I find it to be very helpful to do those kinds of exercises. And I also felt it was helpful in childbirth to kind of be like, "Okay, he has to move beyond where he just was and I'm going to use my hands as a visual and kinesthetic coach of creating that intention," for lack of a better word. I don't know. It just kind of came organically to me to do that.

And then finally towards the end there when they're like, when he was crowning, I really needed to push because he had a big head, of course. And finally towards the end also we kind of figured out that if I would put my—I couldn't hold my legs up at all, but if I put my feet on the forearms of both my husband and my friend, Yolan, held their hands and pulled myself up, I could then get into a more squatting position where I felt like I knew what I was doing and could be more powerful, you know? And so like we had the baby, he came out. So we got his head out. My husband, I remember he was just like—so he turned his head, opened his eyes. He was like, "It was very strange."

Lisa: 36:12

When just his head was out, you're saying?

Amy: 36:14

Like just the head and eyes. And then he told me, just like for encouragement, he was like, "He's breathing, he's breathing." He was not breathing because he was still attached to the umbilical cord.

Lisa: 36:26

Yeah. Until the cord comes out, they're not usually breathing through their face.

Amy: 36:30

I don't know, he thought that that would be encouraging. Also towards the end when he was crowning, when I was really pushing the head out, I was starting to really like, it was very stressful because by this point I'd been pushing for three hours.

Lisa: 36:42

Oh wow.

Amy: 36:43

Very long ordeal.

Lisa: 36:43

Very long.

Amy: 36:45

Yeah. So, and I just think that my body, like I, I already knew I had a small uterus from when I got my IUD. And then I had a big baby, so I just feel like it was like, "I just need to squeeze this guy out" towards the end. I was like, Adam, people were saying things to me like, "Bear down. Bear down." I'm like, that doesn't mean anything to me. Like that means "Rrrrr," you know, like, and like, that doesn't really help me. And I was like, "Adam, you need to coach me like I'm running a race and I'm close to the finish line and I'm like slowing down." And so he was just like, "Go, go, go, go, keep going, keep going, keep going." And that was very helpful and he was great. I'm like, "Don't be mean to me, because I can't handle that right now." And I remember saying that, "Don't be mean, but I need you to coach me like that, so I need you to push me, like, verbally. And he was great at it. So. I don't know why I'm getting emotional, but so then a couple more pushes and the baby was out.

They immediately put him on my chest. I heard my husband say, "Don't we have to wait for it to stop pulsing first?" And later I found out that the doctor was like, "Cut the umbilical cord "and he was–because we had planned to let it pulse until it was done. And she, she, he said to me later, "The way she looked at me and handed me the scissors was like, 'You're either doing this or I'm doing it right now.'" But apparently because he was in the birth canal for so long, he had just a little bit of distress that he needed suctioning. So she wanted to do that right away. So even though they put him on my chest, she did the umbilical cord right away. Apparently it was kind of short. It wasn't like this huge long umbilical cord because I was like willing to donate and they're like, "It's really not worth it. This particular one." I was like, "Okay." And then I also heard her be like, "Nurse, take the baby over." So he did go over to the little thing for suctioning. My husband was with me and I'm like, "What are you doing? Go go." And I'm just like, "I'm fine. Like like what is happening with our baby?" And she's like, "Your baby is really fine. He was just in there for a little too long. So we're just going to give him a little suction. But he is really fine." And then she said to me, "You may want to give yourself another hit of that epidural because I'm going to stitch you up." And I said, "No problem." Yeah. Meanwhile she was talking to the resident about like what was happening with my tear. I wish I had paid attention to her a little bit more because I think I could have helped myself out knowing like what it looked like down there or how bad it was. Like I really have no idea, but I knew it was bad enough that she was like, "I'm now just going to stitch you up." So the baby came back.

Oh, I also wore a sports bra, which was probably stupid because I was planning on not having the epidural so I wasn't planning on having tons of like cords and stuff attached to me. I thought I would just have like the IV on my hand, but I couldn't get the sports bra off even though it attached because I like–in order to do full skin to skin. So I was like, "Just cut it off," because it was kind of like wrapped around little things. So they cut it off. The nurse was so cute. She was like, "Are you sure? It's nice." I'm like, "I got it at the dollar store. Who cares?" So we did skin-to-skin and I have to say he latched immediately because I was like, "I don't really know what to do." And like, because you know, I'd never been with a baby that little before so I'm just like, "Ah, here he is." Yeah, I'm exhausted and you know, I was happy that I wasn't throwing up anymore. But the doctor is still sewing me up. She's like, "Just like put him belly to belly with his head between your breasts and like kind of frog his legs out to either side and he will know what to do." And he latched right away, which is good. I have to also say breastfeeding has been very easy for us.

Lisa: 40:42

Oh yay, that's not so common. I'm so happy to hear that.

Amy: 40:45

Yeah. Well my husband's so funny. He's just like, "Well, considering the labor was really hard and the pregnancy was hard..."

Lisa: 40:52

You deserved a break.

Amy: 40:54

Yeah. Like if breastfeeding was also really hard it would be like really, really hard. But yeah, I also had been kind of experimenting with self-expression in the shower for a week or two before. So my colostrum was already like in, because I was just curious. I'm like, "Am I producing anything? My boobs are huge!" So I'm like–oh, we did see a lactation consultant while we were there because I'm just like, "I just want to make sure that everything is okay." His latch is great. Or was. He was a big baby. He lost a little bit of weight. By the time he left the hospital he was back to his birth weight and like he doubled his weight in like a month. He was like 20 pounds at six months. Although now it's like, it was crazy. So he was born at about one o'clock in the afternoon. That day we just kind of relaxed and we were like, like I was also euphoric. I've never been so happy.

Lisa: 41:48

It's an amazing rush. Those hormones and that relief.

Amy: 41:52

And then coming down was not so great but, like, it was amazing. And we went the next day to the lactation class, which they were having like a group class, and then that afternoon–the lactation consultant I think just kind of goes and visits all the patients who want to breastfeed to see how it's going. The first night was great. I did send him off–so that I could sleep–to the nursery, but they brought him to me. I breastfed him. I do remember though, that first day they told me to let them know if there were any blood clots, if I had passed any blood clots. Well I didn't really know what that meant. So.

Lisa: 42:34

They didn't give you like a size example?

Amy: 42:37

If they did, I did not pay attention to it.

Lisa: 42:41

Fair enough. I remembered missing 90% of what they said to me.

Amy: 42:45

Perhaps they did, but they were like, "If you have any..." I just remember "If I have any blood clots." So I went to the bathroom and there, like, like some blood came out and it was like a clot, but it was the size–it was like smaller than a golf ball. It was, it was not big. It was maybe the size of a quarter. Right. And so, but I was like, "Oh, there's a blood clot. I want someone to come check it out." But I was in the bathroom so I foolishly like pulled the bathroom thing and all of a sudden I hear like a whole bunch of things outside and like people running, I'm like, "Oh my God, that's totally because of me." And I'm like, "I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. It's not an emergency. I just want someone to come in here please." And they're like, "No. It has to be like this." Then they told me. The spray was very helpful and the, the spray that the hospital had was great. Adam brought me an off-brand and it was like stinging and I was just like, this is not good. But yeah, the recovery for me was hard. Yeah, I would say like, like it took me about a week and a half to be able to sit comfortably–it's not just sitting as the transition through the pelvis where those stitches were and the tenderness was, I definitely definitely used all the witch Hazel pads. I was like, I was like "Adam, we are bringing everything home. I'm like put this in the bag, put this in the bag, put this in the bag. We are bringing everything home."

Lisa: 44:07

That's such a good tip. Such a good tip. Grab all the supplies that you can.

Amy: 44:12

Yeah, grab them. We made sure that there—because they'll give you supplies also in two bags. But I'm like, I just pretended like I used them up and I was like, "Could I please have some more of the spray? Because the spray was the only thing that was actually giving me like pain relief from, from the tear. And so I was like, "Put it in the bag, put in the bag." And I'm like, "Adam, as you walk by, if there's any of this spray, you take it. So."

Lisa: 44:34

And did they tell you what degree tear you had?

Amy: 44:37

They didn't. But I also didn't ask. Like there are some things that I'm like, "Oh, should I have known that?" I'm not...

Lisa: 44:44

You could always ask. I'm sure it's written in your records if you ever wanted to go back and see. Just for your knowledge.

Amy: 44:51

Yeah. And like I do suspect now, since it's been 15 months, I'm still having some pretty severe stress incontinence, which is really debilitating. It makes it hard to just do things. Like I do wear a pad, but like I don't want to work out to lose the baby weight because I don't want to be embarrassed at the gym, you know, little things like that. So my doctor did say a long time ago at my last appointment, she's like, "You could do physical therapy, you know, so let me know if you need that." But as soon as I did that, I quit my job and my insurance ran out. So I didn't go again. So I'm going to go back in because I'm like, I'm pretty sure I have bladder prolapse. Not severely, but just the way I pee. My body is pushing out tampons. I'm having a very frank discussion with you. I hope that's okay.

Lisa: 45:42

I'm so glad you're willing to, thank you.

Amy: 45:44

Yeah.

Lisa: 45:44

You're benefiting other people because we just don't talk about this enough and we need to know because it's very common.

Amy: 45:51

Right. Yeah. I had a big baby and I had a long labor that I think I kind of made longer, like had, as soon as I got into the Pitocin I was just like, "Okay, great, let's do the epidural." You know, I, I don't think I would have had to labor as long had someone been like, "Don't hit that button." I don't think I would have pushed as long. You know, because the first like hour or like 45 minutes or so, maybe half hour, 45 minutes, I was like pushing, but I didn't really know what I was pushing.

Lisa: 46:19

Yeah, there's a learning curve to it when we've never done it before.

Amy: 46:22

Yeah. And there's a learning curve to being a parent too. But that one I found it to be really fast and there's a lot of information there. But yeah, and I—it also could be just my age. I'm 40 I had a baby at 40, so who knows.

Lisa: 46:38

I really truly believe all of us will be forever processing our birth stories, you know, like trying to put those puzzle pieces together and figure out what we would do differently next time or just processing what happened there. You know? That's, yeah.

Amy: 46:53

Yeah. So I guess that's my birth story in not so much of a nutshell.

Lisa: 46:58

Yeah. I was just going to ask you if there's a specific PT you've seen that you like.

Amy: 47:04

I haven't actually gone yet because I only like, I just thought up until last week that this is just how my body is now. You know? And then I was talking to another mom at a play date who had two babies and she had prolapsed after her first baby and she went to a doctor and I was like, "How did you know you had prolapse? Like what took you to the doctor?" And she's like, "Well"—as soon as she said, "My body started, was pushing out tampons so I knew something was wrong," and then her bladder actually dropped where she could feel it. So she's like, "So it, mine was pretty severe" and I was like, "Oh I think I have it." And so she actually forwarded me her PT. I haven't actually made an appointment yet, but she also forwarded me all of her exercises. So she, we talked about it for a little bit and it's really amazing how moms are very supportive in this way. And she's like, "I did a lot of research because my doctor was like, 'Well, you can have the surgery.'" And she's like, "Well okay, let me, let me just look it up online." And she's like, "In Europe, women don't have the surgery, they only do physical therapy, and it's actually a 12 week included as postnatal care that we don't do, you know?" And I'm like, "Huh, that would have been very helpful, you know?" Yeah. Yeah. So I'm about to start PT and I'm going to—just gonna call her doctor, but I have to wait until my husband lets me know what his schedule is like.

Lisa: 48:31

Sure. And do just let me know if you need any other names because I have a list of different ones.

Amy: 48:37

That would be great. Would you email it to me?

Lisa: 48:39

Absolutely.

Amy: 48:40

So yeah, breastfeeding was really easy for us, which I was really excited about. I purchased after the first couple of weeks—because like I was producing a lot of milk, like while I was still regulating, it was an insane amount and I just thought "This is so wasteful. Eventually I will go back to work." So I bought a Haakaa and.

Lisa: 49:01

Yes, everybody's raving about that. You like it?

Amy: 49:04

I loved it. Yeah. As a pump—they're like, "It's a pump." I'm like, "I don't understand it as a pump," but I totally like for like putting it on the breast that's not being used while while he's nursing, I collected so much, sometimes four ounces at a time, you know?

Lisa: 49:23

Wow.

Amy: 49:24

And I wish I had had it for those beginning times for when I was not regulating yet because I was just like leaking milk. It was pretty like came in right away and we had zero problems. He was so chunky. Now I hated pumping. Pumping to me I didn't feel like I was producing as much. I'm like, "I don't get it." Like, and also like it was stressful. I just did not like pumping, but I also had to pump at work or for work and so it was like really crappy.

Lisa: 49:58

Yeah. And that's common for us to not be able to pump as much with a mechanical pump. It just doesn't have that oxytocin factor that the human connection does.

Amy: 50:07

I would do things like create little videos. I would have, my husband, while I was at work, send me videos of him.

Lisa: 50:12

To look at the baby, that's great.

Amy: 50:12

I'm like, whatever helps. So I'd like bring my phone out and I'm at a restaurant or I'm like totally in the office just being like, here I am pumping away, looking at my phone and like.

Lisa: 50:26

I love that. Did you, so did you just freeze that all that surplus milk at the very beginning or what'd you do with it?

Amy: 50:32

So, I froze it. I also like wanted my husband to be able to take over some things. So I, I did freeze it. And then what I also noticed is no one knows the value of pumped milk like a person who has pumped. Like, it's like gold. And when even an ounce of it or half ounce is left out on the counter, and you don't know how long it's been there or, or like my husband took a whole four ounces and defrosted it and forgot it was in there. And I'm like, "How long has this been here?" He's like, "I don't know." And I'm like, like, for like, like a week or two. And I'm like, we can't use this now. But then I, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to use it." So I got a recipe for breast milk soap. And so I made soap out of it.

Lisa: 51:26

That's so cool. What a great idea. I love it.

Amy: 51:29

I'm like, it's so crazy. And it literally like, it's not like I was crazy, like "Oh it has to be all natural." I literally went to Michael's and got the soap that you melt down to add things to. So then I put like lavender or peppermint essential oils and made little bars of breast milk soap. Would be good for his skin or if he had any allergies.

Lisa: 51:54

Absolutely. Yeah. I just love it. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Amy: 51:58

Oh no problem. It was very soft.

Lisa: 52:03

It was soft? Cool.

Amy: 52:03

Yeah, I keep it in the refrigerator. Yeah. But yeah.

Lisa: 52:07

That's so cool. Just in case, just for other people's knowledge, there are milk banks that if a person has a lot of extra milk, it's really great to donate to, because it can save lives of premature babies. But it sounds like you already knew about that.

Amy: 52:23

Yeah, I did know that. I don't think I was like a crazy over producer because I have seen videos of the woman that just like has her baby and nurses her baby but then has to pump and gets like 40 ounces a day. I actually, I did freeze it and I got just enough to like make it through with him. Because I actually stopped pumping and he, he took to solid foods also right away. He was really interested in it. So I kind of baby bird fed him for a while. I was like, if he's interested in putting this in his mouth and eating and he's not going to choke on it, if I can chew it up for him, might as well. I was eating, he was like interested in it so I'm like, "Okay." Lettuce is still kind of scary for me. But he has molars now. So I'm thinking that he might be able to chew the lettuce pretty soon.

I'm trying to wean him. I notice at night, I mean, sleep training was very interesting because we kind of co-slept, kind of didn't, I had like a co-sleeper right next to the bed but then I would bring him into the bed so I could nurse him, to do like some of those like dream feeds, either put him back or you know, we didn't really have pillows or heavy blankets because, so he would stay between us some of the time but he wants to be with me. Like if he's on me he'll sleep for a very, very long time. If he's not, he wakes up in like 20 minutes. I am very extroverted and being at home–I love being at home but I noticed I just kind of hole up and then I get depressed. So I started with his first doctor's appointment, which was I guess that first week and I walked there and it was only about six blocks away but it took me a while because I just had a baby.

Lisa: 54:15

Sure. That's a long way when you have stitches and soreness that might be...

Amy: 54:20

I walked, but I definitely was like, "I have to take a small walk every day, and I have to get out of the house." And as soon as I felt good enough I started babywearing. And so my friends were like you like–well I waited until he was about three months old, I guess after his first immunizations. When was that? Maybe three months, I forget. So anyway, like I would walk everywhere and I would take him everywhere because he would take an hour nap, and it usually took me an hour to get anywhere, and then we could have like a cute visit and then go when I became a master of like nursing on the go, so I bought some nursing tops that I could just pull up. So they covered my breasts and I would like pull him down and the carrier and I was like nursing him walking down the street. So like I was just kind of like wiggle him down and we would nurse and it was, it was great, but I created a baby who likes to sleep on top of me, you know, who likes to be cuddled up. And so like he'll sleep like this for a very long time. But I guarantee if I would like sneak away, even if I just turn away, so my back is towards him in the bed, he wakes up. So I'm like, "Oh crap." I didn't really think of that. But I do like babywearing especially in the city. And I didn't realize how few elevators there are in subways.

Lisa: 55:37

Right? Yeah. I went to a rally to try to get–to advocate for more elevators, especially in Queens. There's hardly any, we're finally about to get one at Astoria Boulevard, but it's going to take awhile.

Amy:

55:49

I'm at Jackson Heights, Roosevelt Avenue, and if I want to go anywhere out to Queens like there, like it's very far. I'm like there's not, it's like seven subway stops away, you know, local stops. So I'm like wow, that's, it's really bad. It is bad.

Lisa: 56:07

Yeah. So those carriers are golden.

Amy: 56:10

They sure are. But now he's a little big.

Lisa: 56:12

I know, you're, he's about at the age that I stopped babywearing, but then I've had other friends who have like shifted to the back and they like carry them into, you know age 3 or 4 or...

Amy: 56:22

There are those baby backpacks that have like the more metal frame and I'm just like, "Do I want to invest?" The thing is also like apartments get so inundated with baby stuff, and I feel very wasteful just throwing it away. But like, who do I like, I'm like, "Okay, we have to donate. Give these..." you know, it's tough.

Lisa: 56:44

Yeah. Yeah. A friend of mine is a babywearing educator and she was able to just use a wrap that she wore the baby on the front and then once they got big she knew all kinds of fancy techniques to wrap on the back. So that doesn't take up as much space as a, as a like a framed backpack kind of thing. So just something to know about, if you're inclined.

Amy: 57:03

Yeah, because it is really challenging to get by, you know, although when he's in the back, I have worn him in the back before. It's a little scary because I don't know what his hands are doing. It's so bizarre. I'm like, "Don't touch anything." When he's in the front, I can see him, you know, I...

Lisa: 57:23

Yeah, I had the same concerns too.

Amy: 57:25

Yeah. Oh, the emotional roller coaster coming down off of all those endorphins.

Lisa: 57:32

I was, thank you for coming back to that. I wanted to ask you about that. Yeah. It was challenging.

Amy: 57:36

For me it was really challenging. Partly because it was during the Me Too movement. So like the word "trigger" is not quite the right word, but like I was, I was taking a lot of things very emotionally, very personally about like, you know, like if like I just did this thing, like this–women, all these women are, you know, I'm just like, "Why are we discounting women?" And then also my husband, who is definitely an ally of the Me Too movement–we got the photos back right away from my friend. She created a very long slideshow that was beautiful, but it was also very intimate. And the pictures of me are very vulnerable. Not graphic, but just like my face. And also I'm a little vain. Like I took waterproof mascara there, didn't even put it on, you know, like my hair was not long enough for a ponytail, but not short enough to be out of my face. I was just like really annoyed with it the whole time. But I love the photos, many of them. But it was, you know, it was just like–Adam said to me one night after we had come home and we're having our time together, the baby is napping. And he's like, "I'd like to share that with our families." And I was like, "Okay. Some of the photos I feel really uncomfortable sharing."

Well he either forgot or just got too excited and the next morning I woke up to an email that's like, "Here are these, this slide show, it's at this Vimeo page." And I like just lost my s**t. I lost it entirely because he was also like at an audition or something that day. And he was out and I was alone with the baby and I was like–I thought we had talked about it and he literally said, my body–"Your body, your choice." And you know, it was one of those things where he didn't really realize what, how personal–because I am the type of person that lets people see so many things and I didn't really create a super clear boundary. I just said, "I'd love to share these with them, but I'd like to make an edited version because not all of them I feel comfortable with." You know, like his mom, his dad, we have nieces and nephews. And literally I called my mom sobbing. She thought that there was something really wrong with the baby. She was at a dinner, she like excused herself and I was just like, you know, and I was like, "Adam, I know that I'm being emotional right now." Like, like I can, like I, I haven't cried that much for a long time. I'm like, "But you have to see past that and to see how this was really hurtful for me," you know? And he was like, "I'm really sorry," immediately.

It's hard to know, like if I would be bothered by it, had I not been going through that emotional state, it just felt like a very–I don't mind people looking at or sharing that slideshow or those images with people if they're in the same room with me, so we're having like the shared experience, I can feel the vibe of it. It's just out there and people are watching it, you know, on their coffee break. And so I'm like, I didn't know that I needed to set those boundaries or to be really clear about that because I'm like, I don't mind sharing it. I do mind the way it's being shared and that's something I know as a parent I also have to be really aware of like, why is this okay in this instance for me but not this instance and I have to be very clear on what those boundaries are for me, be like, "Hey, these are the rules." Yeah. You know, like, and like also see where things are okay for Torin and be really aware of like, "Oh, hey, you're okay with this and this instance, but not in this instance." And like let's unwind that and see why. And like just so like now that he's just a toddler, just support it and avoid it. Although he's so easygoing, he really is really nonplussed by most things.

Lisa: 61:35

Nice.

Amy: 61:35

It is really nice. So, so that was really hard. The emotional roller coaster coming down. And then the visits were great. Like if people were visiting and then they're like, "I'm gonna fold your laundry for you." That was so helpful.

Lisa: 61:52

Yay, helpful people. That's what you want.

Amy: 61:56

Yeah. And then we've also had some visits where people were not helpful and I'm like, "I am not ready to host," you know, even like at like 12 weeks, 10 weeks, I wasn't ready to host.

Lisa: 62:07

That's exactly what I, you didn't get this portion of class in our private session. But I talk about "You do not need to play host or hostess ....you need people to come and help you." That's the helpful visit. Or just keep it really brief if it's not gonna help.

Amy: 62:21

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And also like, I didn't really know. I'm the last of my friends, since I'm older, to have a baby. and I've, I've actually said to them, "I'm really sorry, I did not know how to be a supportive friend to you, because I actually didn't know what you needed." Now I make a lasagna, 2 lasagnas, like small ones like one for the freezer, one to eat. And like I made three for us. And we ate it literally after his first birthday and it was still fine, you know. So right before having him I had like cooked and made things. Even if friends are far away though, it's really easy to send them like a grubhub gift certificate.

Lisa: 62:59

Yes.

Amy: 63:00

Or whatever. It's like, you know I...at this apartment we don't have a microwave or a dishwasher. Our stove, we got a new one after he was born because like I couldn't like–the pilot light was out and all these things and we have the washer and dryer in the basement. And I was visiting a friend who had a baby in Boston and they were hosting us and I'm like, how, "What can we do to help?" And like they were fine, they were like "Nothing." And I'm like, "Okay." And I was talking to her, I'm like, "Wow, you have a washer and dryer or that you just put things in." She's like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "I have to go downstairs and it's not available at all hours." I'm like, "Oh wow, you have a dishwasher. That must be so convenient." And she was like, "What?" And I'm like, "A microwave," I'm like "You can just warm up your coffee!" And she like looked at me and I'm like, "I know it sounds like I'm raising a child on the frontier..."

Lisa: 63:53

Called New York City.

Amy: 63:54

"...But I'm not, you know, it's just that rooms are small." So we chose not to have a microwave a long time ago, but now I wish we had one just so I could heat up my food in a second. You know, it's really easy to put his needs before mine.

Lisa: 64:13

Yeah, that's...isn't that a huge lesson that takes some of us...I know myself, it has taken me too many years to realize how important self care is. Yeah. And often it's not until the health, the sacrifice starts to, you know, you start to have some health issues and hormonal imbalances and things that you realize, "Wow, okay, I need to learn the balance between rest and work and sometimes put our needs first."

Amy: 64:42

Yeah, and it can be really simple. Like I don't know why, but like I didn't get a haircut after giving birth because I wanted to grow it out so I could put it up in a ponytail, which is like, like the mom look for me. And then also then I just kind of kept putting it off and putting it off and putting it off. And finally he's like 13 months old and I'm depressed and I'm like, "I just want to get a haircut." And my husband's like, "Go get a haircut." And I'm like, "Oh, okay." But you know, like my person is in the city and we live in Queens. I'm like, to me it felt like a three hour ordeal and that was too much time to take.

And also, you know, my husband and I have started seeing a therapist, which has been very helpful because we had very different upbringings and now that we have a child, those are clashing a little bit more. It's really good to have someone to kind of navigate because it's very easy to be like, "Well, that's the way I was raised. And I like that," you know? So my way is not the only way, but I think it's the best way. So I'm going to do it, you know? And because I have the hormones and because you know, Torin's been smelling me, hearing me, he listened to, you know, feeling me since his conscious moment, you know, in utero, naturally he comes to me and naturally like we had the groove right away. And so I–and also my mistakes I was making mostly in private, whereas his mistakes he was making while I was there. So I was like, "I need to consciously create space so that Adam can be the kind of dad he wants to be." And also that he, I'm like, I know we had a conversation where I said "I'm going to–my learning curve is going to be faster than yours because that's just biologically how it is. If you are doing something with him, do you want me to help you? Like with tips of like, 'Oh I found that this, he tends to like this' or do you want me to have–let you have time and space to figure it out on your own?" So basically we've, we've come to the conclusion that I say, "Oh, do you want some help with that?" about what I found that works for me, and then he can choose to be "Yes" or "No."

Lisa: 67:13

That's great. What a healthy communication strategy.

Amy: 67:13

I mean that doesn't always work.

Lisa: 67:14

But still like to have that aim and that strategy is so healthy.

Amy: 67:21

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. We have other things that I'm like, "Ooh." And honestly I never thought I would get divorced until like about three months into having a baby and–or maybe two. And I'm just like, "I think we're going to get a divorce. I do not see this working. I might have, I'm moving back home with my parents."

Lisa: 67:42

It puts your relationship to the test like nothing else, right?

Amy: 67:47

It really does, and also my priorities and his priorities are a little different and it's easy–I always said before having a baby, I want to have the type of relationship where our marriage comes first and through that love it will trickle down. And he is a part of that, you know? And, because I–at the restaurant I saw a lot of people whose spouses put the child first. The child is the thing that keeps the marriage going and I'm like, and eventually he won't be here and you will ...

Lisa: 68:17

And then what do you have?

Amy: 68:19

Yeah, but that is not easy to do with a newborn to one to two year old, you know, like it's just like their needs do come first. It just, they have to. So it's on my mind that I'm like, "Adam does not get the leftovers" but it's very easy to slip into that.

Lisa: 68:44

Yeah. One thing I talk about in classes is a piece of advice we were given as we became parents that we found to be so useful was to talk about, set your quota for how many dates you'll have in like say a month. And to really try to stick to that. And then whenever you have those date times to say, "All baby talk is off limits." Yeah, we do need to be on the same parenting page and talk about those things at other times. But this is time for us and to really nurture and deepen that connection and maintain it too. Because otherwise it just starts to, you know, you start to drift and yeah. So that's something that really helped us a lot in the first years, really, of both of our kids' lives. And good for you guys for seeking out therapy too.

Amy: 69:34

We started after we had the baby together and I'm just like, "We need some help because this is beyond me." Because I was holding onto resentment about him sharing the slide show, you know, and it was kind of like my kind of ace in the hole whenever he did something that pissed me off, you know, I would bring that up again and like, I didn't really know how to get past it. And interestingly, the thing that has helped me get past it is focusing on gratitude and the things that I love about him and that I'm grateful for about him. Like he was really great about making me lactation cookies, you know, stuff like that. He is a great cook and he kept me really well fed. All I wanted though was like sweets and scones and so, too many coping scones. Also finding, I don't know if you follow the Gottman Institute...

Lisa: 70:27

I was just about to ask you if you read "And Baby Makes Three", is that what you're...

Amy: 70:31

I bought it, but I haven't read it.

Lisa: 70:33

I love their stuff so much. I'm thinking about possibly becoming a teacher of their "And Baby Makes Three" trainings. Yeah. I just so–it's such a needed resource.

Amy: 70:44

It really is. It really is. So I bought the book right after, of course I haven't read it. It's on the bookshelf. I also bought their "Eight Dates," but I follow them also on Facebook and Instagram. And so they post articles which are perfect for like bite size. Like yeah, my mom life is not, I can read. My mom life is, I can kind of like, like I'm a magazine person now. A good article is all I can take in.

Lisa: 71:11

Yeah. Yeah. Or I listen to a lot of podcasts. And actually they were interviewed by somebody, I can't even remember who it was recently.

Amy: 71:18

Dax Shepard interviewed them. on Armchair Expert.

Lisa: 71:20

Oh yes. That's the interview I was listening to. Yes. Yeah, that's the one I listened to recently. And it's so great because you can...

Amy: 71:27

I haven't listened to it yet.

Lisa: 71:29

It's good. It's excellent.

Amy: 71:33

Cool. When we got married, we did a little bit of counseling and they had given us "The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work," and so I was like, "Oh, I totally am on board with this philosophy," so it's good. It is good stuff.

Lisa: 71:49

Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this. It's been such a great conversation and I've loved hearing all these details. All right, well, any last tips for parents?

Amy: 72:01

Thank you for all of your info too.

Lisa: 72:03

Absolutely. Yeah.

Amy: 72:05

I think that your class was a lifesaver. We had also, I forgot to mention this, we had also watched the entire "Laugh Through Childbirth" with sharing,

Lisa: 72:14

"Laugh and Learn"?

Amy: 72:16

Yes, we rented it from the library, so like when we came to you, we already had like an idea of like what was going to happen, but the actual physical positions to get into in order to take stress off of your body was really helpful.

Lisa: 72:31

Glad to hear that. Thank you so much. It's great catching up with you. Have a great afternoon.

Amy: 72:36

You, too. Okay, bye Lisa.

Lisa: 72:37

Bye.

Lisa: 72:38

All right, so that was Amy's birth story. Did you notice when Amy mentioned putting on "Parks and Rec" in early labor? When it's your first time to give birth, it's really smart to find ways to distract yourself in early labor for as long as you can until there ain't no ignoring it anymore. The fact that Amy put on a comedy is also a really smart choice because endorphins are created in our body not only from working out really hard in labor just like in a hard workout, but also when we laugh. Endorphins create what we call the runner's high, which helps us to do things mentally and physically that we didn't know we could do. Endorphins are a natural pain drug, so the more we can strategically seek out ways to boost those in labor, the more we can cope really well and reduce the perception of pain.

Amy also mentioned regretting not having a birthing ball. A ball is one of my top favorite tools for labor–not only mine, but laboring women all over. It can feel so great to be able to move around on a ball, moving your hips and it can help loosen tension in the pelvis and pelvic floor muscles. This loosening and the physical movement itself can be hugely helpful toward baby's descent and rotation through the pelvis toward being born. I'll put a link in this episode's show notes to a tip sheet detailing the benefits. I recommend either purchasing one or making sure your birthing location has enough balls for all rooms. Some hospitals only have a couple of them and if they're occupied when you arrive, you won't have access to it. If you have own ball and are giving birth outside your home, your partner will usually need to partially deflate it and bring the pump to re-inflate it once you get to your birth location.

When Amy mentioned "hamburger butt," she was referring to a counter pressure move called the "double hip squeeze." "Counter pressure" means that a support partner is creating consistent, strong pressure on some part of the body for the whole duration of the contraction. This pressure not only directs your brain away from paying attention to wherever you're feeling discomfort or intensity, but also creates some physical comfort that can actually facilitate progress in various ways. The move she referred to was one that they had learned in their private session with me. Partner squeezes the butt cheeks together to open the pubic synthesis on the front of the pelvis. This not only can feel great in labor, but also opens the pelvic outlet, making more room for baby to descend toward being born. It's a top, go-to comfort measure for labor. I did want to clarify when we were discussing Amy's challenges with pelvic floor incontinence and I said it's very common, I meant that it's quite common in postpartum to have some level of struggle with pelvic floor issues such as stress continence or urge incontinence. I didn't mean bladder prolapse is very common, as that is certainly less common. To be more specific, one in three women experience some degree of challenge with bladder control after giving birth. If you experience any bladder or fecal control issues or pelvic pain beyond the first six weeks after giving birth, it's a good idea to seek out pelvic floor physical therapy. There are professionals who specialize in this area and can help. We should not have to suffer, and too many women do after birth. You can find some local recommendations for optimizing pelvic floor health on my website at birthmattersnyc.com/resources.

Until next week, I have a question for you to ponder. This one is for listeners who are in a committed relationship as you enter parenthood: what can you do or are you doing to baby-proof your relationship as you become parents? Join in on the conversation over on Instagram @BirthMattersNYC where I'll post a poll so your voice can be heard. Okay, here's a little peek into what you'll hear next week.

Speaker 2: 76:31

I just remember thinking like through each contraction, like, "You can do anything for 60 minutes. You can do anything"–or, 60 minutes, "for 60 seconds, you can do anything for 90 seconds," you know, however long it was lasting. I was like, I was like, "I can do this, I can do this." Then I'm like, it was almost like the little engine that could. I was like, "I can, I can. I can." Like, and it really helped to kind of focus just on that. Like it was just a short period of time."

Lisa: 76:57

Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, and remember, you got this! ---END---