Today we welcome new mom, Chantal. Previously diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome, Chantal expected getting pregnant to take a while, so getting pregnant on the first try came as a surprise. On the heels of completing birth class and having a marathon of 3 baby showers, another surprise happens when Chantal’s water breaks prematurely at 35 weeks. When she arrives at the hospital, she learns her hospital has a free doula program, and she gets great support from her assigned doula, alongside her husband. After giving birth prematurely, she faces the emotional rollercoaster of a brief NICU stay for their son. Listen as Chantal navigates the intricacies of early postpartum, breastfeeding challenges, and the invaluable support from her community and medical team. Her story embodies resilience, community, and immense love for her newborn son.
Resources:
CUB (“Comfortable Upright Birth” inflatable birthing stool”)*
Insurance Flow chart (National Women’s Law Center, for lactation coverage out-of-network exceptions)
Cass Christopher Lactation - Chantal worked with Shamina Rao
Bloom Maternal Health, “Nurse Nikki” Hunter Greenaway (Nurse Practitioner and International Board Certified Lactation Consultant, Black Maternal Health & Reproductive Justice Advocate)
Paperless Lactation - lactation continuing ed
City Lactation - NYC / LIC-based lactation support (Annie Frisbie & team)
Sponsor links:
Free “Pack for Your Best Birth” Packing List (with free mini-course option)
East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
PCOS, anticipated fertility issues
Conceived on first try at age 37
Found out they were pregnant on Christmas Day
Finding lots of community was essential
Coming to birth class
Had a scary bleeding episode but everything was ok
Had 3 baby showers back-to-back
Original due date 9/4
One of showers was in Brooklyn Bridge Park
Come home from one shower with her best friend and husband, sorting gifts
Earlier that day she has a bit of bleeding (bloody show), calls doctor
Sitting late at night and feels warmth in her underwear
Goes to bathroom and decides her water broke
Didn’t have bag packed, doc tells her to get ready and show up at 7am
Friends came over to help in the middle of the night
Checking into the hospital (Methodist in Brooklyn); in triage contractions start
Started pitocin around 10am
They hadn’t hired a doula, but when they arrived at hospital, they learned the hospital provides doulas - doula Aylish was assigned to them and was really helpful
Had the birthing ball, CUB birthing stool
Her husband and doula did lots of counterpressure comfort measure techniques
Doula gave her frozen medical gloves to put on her wrist as a comfort measure and it was very helpful
Doula also set her up in throne position
Around 4-5cm the anesthesiologist came in within 5 min of her requesting it
Got some sleep
10:30 doc comes in with concerns about baby’s heart rate
Doc does an exam and finds she’s fully dilated!
Pushed for 15 minutes, did purple pushing
During the pushing, there was concern about baby’s heart rate so they encouraged her to push harder/faster
Her son peed twice all over her immediately after birth
Did about a minute of delayed cord clamping
Had at least an hour of skin-to-skin before newborn protocols
Initially, her son seemed okay, and they transferred to postpartum
Nurses notice he seems a bit cold and wasn’t feeding well
Tried an isolette, but he stays a bit cooler than he should be
Hospital staff decide to take him to NICU
Had to do a strict pumping regimen every 2 hours, which felt really unmanageable with everything else going on
Lactation consultant Latifa was great helping reduce engorgement
Also had doula support on the unit in postpartum
Lactation consultant covered by insurance - Shamina
For her mental health, had to reduce pumping sessions
Edema in lower half of body after birth - painful, needed compression stockings
Tips for NICU parents
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Hi Chantal, how are you doing today? Welcome to the show.
Chantal: Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Lisa: I am very grateful you're willing to share. Can you just take a moment to introduce yourselves to listeners?
Chantal: Sure. My name is Chantal. I am a new mommy, had my son five weeks early, on July 31st. So he's about two months old now. I am still well in the fourth trimester and tired, but loving it, even with the difficulties that come along with raising a newborn. And I'm from Brooklyn.
And for my profession, I am an education policy fellow and advocate for young people in the foster system in New York State.
Lisa: Thank you. That sounds like very important work that you do. And before we hit record, I was just asking you some questions, update questions. And you were saying that you're able to take off about seven months, both you and your partner.
Chantal: Yeah. Between the two of us, we'll be able to be home with the baby until he's about seven months, which is really a big relief.
Lisa: Yeah, nice. Maybe I misunderstood that. Does that mean you're tag teaming a bit?
Chantal: Yes. So I'm doing like a chunk of time in the beginning and then we're gonna split the weeks for several months and then I'll have another chunk of time in February before I have to go back full time.
Lisa: Great. Oh, that's nice. Glad you're able to do that.
Chantal: It would be better if it were a year.
Lisa: Right. Yes. U. S. Listen, U. S. do better. Yeah. I don't know why I'm laughing because it's really upsetting.
Chantal: I know. Well, you have to laugh to keep from crying.
Exactly. It just is what it is. Yeah.
PCOS and Conception Journey
Lisa: Great. Well, thank you for introducing yourself. Would you please get us started by just giving us a little context in terms of if you'd like to share anything about your conception journey and or your pregnancy and how all of that went. And different ways that you prepared for becoming a parent?
Chantal: Yeah. I wish I had a better answer to the ways I prepared for becoming a parent because being in this newborn stage, it is very evident to me that I did not.
But, in terms of conception, I have polycystic ovarian syndrome, and I was diagnosed very early, as a very young teenager, and was told, I would say, probably from about 16, that it would be really hard to have children. So I anticipated my road to parenthood being really difficult.
But, I had an IUD, I ended up getting the IUD removed, and tracking my ovulation, and just seeing okay, let's see what happens. Everyone with PCOS presents differently. For me, the biggest symptom is the sort of classic string of pearls in the ovaries and irregular periods. And my periods as I've got older and maybe things have regulated, got a little bit better over time.
But they were still longer than, whatever they're supposed to be, 28 to 32 days, I think. Sometimes I go even longer than that. So I wasn't quite sure what to expect, going into this trying to conceive journey, but I get the ovulation test strips, my friend tells me about it.
I'm like, okay. And my OBGYN says, well, if you're getting a period, with some frequency, you're likely ovulating. It's not for sure that you are, but you likely are. So I said, okay, let's see. So I start doing this tracking, which is a pain in the butt to pee on the stick every morning. And sometimes you forget and all this stuff, but I've been trying to do my best tracking.
So one day I do it and I'm like, Oh wow, this is like a really high number, or bright color or whatever it was on the test. And I'm like, okay, we got to do it.
Right. And I fully expected nothing to happen, but we did. We conceived the first time we actually tried.
Lisa: What? That is just about unheard of.
Chantal: I was like, whoa. I was stunned because I was like, of course it's not going to work. I was 37. There's a million things, I have PCOS, this is my first time actually being on top of this ovulation tracker thing, but it worked. So it just goes to show the saying that says, if you have sex, there is always a chance to get pregnant. It's true. It is true. I can tell you that it's true. So we conceived, thank God, it was really seamless and we actually found out Christmas morning last year, which was really beautiful.
Lisa: Oh, Oh, I love it.
Chantal: Yeah, it was the best Christmas gift, but also everything with parenthood that I'm discovering and through pregnancy, is also super scary because you're like, yes oh my gosh, the line is, because at that time it was like super faint because it was still pretty early and I'm like, oh Is it gonna get darker? Like what's gonna happen?
You know all these things just rush through your head and so, you know, all the things that happen when you just start this journey. So thankfully our conception journey was really, pretty easy. And it's just, it was so different from what I anticipated it being. I thought for sure I was headed to a fertility specialist, and it just didn't turn out that way, so I'm really grateful that it was the way it was, especially given my history.
Preparations for Parenthood
And then in terms of preparing for parenthood, like I said, I wish I would have done a little more reading and a little more research. I think we just had a couple of conversations, my husband and I are just like, I think this is something we want to do. And we just decided to go for it. And I think, too, if I'm honest, again, thinking like, we got some time, because it's not gonna happen right away. So now I'm just like, here, okay, here we are, doing this and just learning as I go, taking advice from so many mom communities that I'm a part of, my church has a mom's group, WhatsApp group.
There's a mom WhatsApp group for black women who are nursing. There's the WhatsApp group that you run, so there's just so much support and I'm really like tapping into the community and I don't know that I knew that I would need that as much as I have. And I've been so, so, so grateful for it.
To just feel seen, to feel known, to feel connected, and to have the support outside of your family and close circle of friends that are also very helpful, but it's been helpful to have those communities as well. So, that's been really crucial to my parenthood journey, since Ellis got here.
Lisa: Yeah. So, so important, right? To be able to just compare notes and be like, tell me that I'm not losing my brain in my sleep deprived state. What is happening? Is anybody else out there experiencing this? And then you're like, yes. All these people are like, yeah, me too. And it can be so reassuring, because, you know, there really is no true way we can prepare, really, for parenthood. You just kind of gotta jump in. And then we need the community.
Chantal: Yes.
Lisa: Yeah, so, I believe you and Harold took my Savvy Birth 101 class and then you took birth class, right? I can't remember how you found out about the workshop or if it was after you already signed up for the class.
Chantal: I had reached out. So I was doing a lot of research. It dawned on me maybe somewhere in my second trimester that I was like, we should really do a class because we don't know what we're doing. We should do a class and learn something. And I really wanted an in person class.
And I really wanted a class that also touched on newborn care, like, intro stuff to that. Namely because Harold, I don't think, had ever changed a diaper. So he had a lot to learn. He is now the swaddle king, thanks to your class.
Lisa: Ha. Yes.
Chantal: Swaddle Champion. We are still swaddling the baby.
And I really wanted those criteria and I was just Google searching and I finally came across your website and your class and I had reached out because I don't think you had posted your, let's see, when did we sign up for, originally we signed up for June, I don't think you had posted the June schedule yet and I reached out and then you told me about the Savvy Birthing class so we did that and then we picked up for the weekend course with you in person which was great.
Lisa: And you just finished right before your birth, right? Am I remembering right?
Chantal: Yes. Yes.
Lisa: In the nick of time.
Chantal: Couple of weeks before. Yes. Yep. Earlier that month.
Lisa: I loved having you both in class. Or three? I should say, in class.
Chantal: Yes. Yes, us three.
Healthy Pregnancy
Lisa: Well, any other ways that you prepared for the journey into parenthood or anything to note physically or emotionally about just being pregnant?
Chantal: Yeah, for me, I think pregnancy was really, I kind of want to say uneventful, but that's not entirely true. It's eventful because it's a whole human living in your body. But it's uneventful in the sense that I think some of the things that I anticipated didn't materialize. I didn't ever feel like I was in so, so, so much pain or discomfort.
Like I definitely had discomfort. I was definitely sleeping propped up on our couch for like many weeks, once I hit my third trimester. It didn't matter what I did to my bed, these pregnancy pillow things were not working, like it was just, so sleeping sitting up was the best thing I could do. So, I had swelling like swollen legs and feet, you know being pregnant in the summer like it's just inevitable. But by and large I felt pretty good during my pregnancy and didn't have a lot of scares or anything like that. I did have an initial sort of bleeding scare early on that was pretty scary, turned out to be nothing.
But aside from that, and then my water breaking, which was TV style water breaking, by the way, which I was like, but Lisa said that doesn't happen in real life.
Lisa: Wait, wait, wait, wait. I didn't say it never happens.
Chantal: Well, in my mind, I was like, she's like, it's very rare. Like that doesn't happen. So when it happened, I was like,
Lisa: Not the majority, not the majority.
Chantal: I’m like what's happening?
Lisa: You had the TV version.
Chantal: I certainly did. I certainly did. But yeah, by and large, pregnancy was pretty good. I was really blessed to just have a pretty chill pregnancy. I was of advanced maternal age. So I had an extra layer of doctor's visits, with the maternal fetal specialist, that, you know, initially I was sort of like, do I really need this? This feels like a lot, just extra visits on top of your OB visits.
But it was really nice cause I got pictures every time. So we got way more sonograms than most people do and way more pictures than most people do. And way more assurance that things were going well, so, at the end of the day, I was grateful for it. And yeah, just went through pregnancy feeling pretty good, for the most part.
Lisa: Thank you. Well, anything else you wanted to share about the pregnancy journey before you jump into your preemie baby story?
Chantal: Oh, I don't think so. I think that's it.
Water Breaking and Bloody Show
So my labor and delivery story of my five week preemie baby, who, we can laugh now, it's like you were in such a rush and he ended up having to go to NICU for a week and we were like, so clearly you weren't ready. So why did you come out?
You weren't ready, sir. But, in terms of my journey, we're really blessed with a big community of family and friends. And we had three baby showers and I had them all like back to back, because I was like, let's rip this baby shower band aid off and then be finished with them all and then I can nest.
So, my original due date was September 4th, so we had our showers at the end of July. And we had our last shower, one of our favorite places to be is Brooklyn Bridge Park, and we had it in the park with our friends. And we had done showers with both of our sides of our family. And we're in the park and I'm with my best friend since high school, and her sister, who is also my best friend, who I've known their family for well over 20 years, and we're wrapping up late that day, that Sunday evening. So we leave each other around eight o'clock. We get home at nine. We still have gifts and stuff we've been like stacking in the corner. My husband starts to go through them and we're sorting things here and there from the showers and you know, we'll get ready to work on this in August. Because we have a whole month to prep for getting this baby set up and getting everything he needs, well we didn't know the sex, so getting everything the baby needed. But so we're sitting there and I'm sitting on the couch and earlier that day before the shower, I woke up and I saw red blood. I was really nervous. I told my husband, Harold, I was like, I think we got to go to the hospital. And he was like, well, maybe you should call your doctor. And I was like, oh, that's a good point. I'll call the doctor first. So I called the doctor and she's asking me all these questions.
And she's it doesn't sound like it's an emergency, but you know, keep an eye on it. If it, you know, continues or gets worse, let me know. So I have him go ahead to the park and I'm like I'm just gonna chill out this morning and just chill out and wait and then it went away. I didn't have any spotting or anything.
So I thought I was fine. I come home and I'm sitting on the couch, this is maybe now, this is about 1 a. m., after we left our friends in park, and I'm like, something feels warm, and I don't think I peed on myself, and I'm just like, but maybe I did, who knows? Like, I'm like, this, who knows,
Lisa: All bets are off now the end of pregnancy.
Chantal: Yeah, I'm just like, maybe I did. So I go to the bathroom and I was wearing a pad because of the spotting earlier because I really wanted to be able to see what was going on. And it's soaked with clear fluid and I'm like, uh oh.
So then I yell out of the bathroom, my water just broke. And Harold goes, what? And I'm like, yeah, so then I called the doctor and you'll be happy to hear this because I was happy to hear this because it correlated with what you shared in class. I called her and I was like, my water broke. And she was like, we were just talking earlier and everything. And I was like, yeah, well, it broke.
And she was like, well, water breaking is not an emergency. And I was like, that's what Lisa was telling us, you don't have to run to the hospital as soon as it happens.
Incredible Support from Friends
Well, by the way, I was 35 weeks at the time, just when my water broke. At midnight, I was 35 weeks. Oh, wow. So I just crossed the threshold. So she was like, okay, well, just so you know, you're probably having a baby today or tomorrow and, get your stuff together, and meet me at the hospital at 7am if nothing else happens between now and then. So said, okay. We had no hospital bag packed. I had not ordered his bassinet or crib. He had nowhere to sleep. He had no clothes that were clean. I was like, so I ended up calling those friends who are basically like my sisters and I'm like, SOS.
And I call them and they're like what do you mean and I was like I know you just saw me but apparently I'm now having a baby and they're like what oh my god. So they both have children as well so they jumped into gear and like again the power of community one of them gave me her bassinet that we still use for the baby today.
They both came to our house and washed his clothes and got everything ready for us, washed bottles so that when we came home, we could just like, be prepared.
Lisa: And this was late at night, right?
Chantal: Yeah, I probably called them at 2 a. m.
Lisa: Oh, those kinds of friends. I love it.
Chantal: Yes, they're totally like family. They are family, not even like family, they are family. And it's so funny, the things that you do in emergencies. I'm like, sitting at the table, writing out a note to them about, okay, I put the clothes in the Ikea bag and here's the card for the washing machine in our lobby, you'll need to use my key fob to, I'm just, like, writing out all these instructions and it's, I saved it because I want to save it for him so he can see it, like, this is what was happening the day before you were born. Like we were just like, or the day you were born, we're just like trying to get all this stuff together because your parents were not ready for you to get here so early.
But we start to pack a hospital bag, my husband's running around trying to do all the things he can do, I'm a sitting duck at this point because every time I move, I'm leaking, which I don't think I really, I'm sure you mentioned that in class, but I just didn't recognize that's what happened and I was like, I can't, I feel like I can't go anywhere because I keep leaking.
Lisa: Keep leaking, yeah. And you're not having contractions yet at that point, right?
Chantal: I did not feel any contractions at that point.
Arriving at the Hospital and Starting Pitocin
Chantal: But then, we get everything together. I close my eyes for maybe an hour. He closes his eyes for half an hour and then we're up heading to the hospital, and we get there and they check me, I'm one and a half centimeters dilated, but contractions, I still hadn't really felt anything.
And they put on the monitor and we were in triage. I had my group B strep test scheduled for that week. So they had to do that in triage since I didn't have it done before. My doctor did end up ordering a steroid shot for his lungs, even though I was technically outside the window, but I was just 35 weeks, so she ordered it anyway. And then they started me on antibiotics, in case the group B strep came back positive, but it didn't, ultimately. So I just had one round of antibiotics. But as I was in triage, then I started to feel a contraction or two, and I was like, Oh, and my husband has this funny video of me going, Oh, that's different. That's a feeling. Okay. I get it now. I'm like, okay, like I see what's going on. So they move us to a delivery room and started me on Pitocin, which I wasn't necessarily expecting to be put on Pitocin, but since my water broke, from my understanding, that's like the protocol for the time it had broken to start on Pitocin.
So they started me on Pitocin.
Lisa: That varies a lot from provider provider, in terms of how many hours. So this was, you said you think your water broke around 1 a. m.?
Chantal: 1 a. m..
Lisa: Around like seven or so?
Chantal: This is about, by the time I got the Pitocin, it was about 10.
Lisa: Ten. Okay.
Chantal: 10, somewhere around there.
And then we were just hanging out in the room. We brought snacks. And we were sneaking snacks because we were like, we have to eat, we can't. We also, because of my doing and the way the baby showers happened, we hadn't really slept much. So we were exhausted and hungry. We're having like little nuts and dried cranberries and stuff.
And then we asked them, can we eat? And they were great about it. The nurse was like, yeah, go now and go get something to eat so that you can get some energy. So that was great. So we had like two slices of pizza each and then, that was great.
Doulas on Staff and Pain Management Techniques
Chantal: And the great thing about it, so I delivered at Methodist in Brooklyn, and we didn't know, going into it, that they had doulas on staff there.
We also didn't hire a doula. We were kind of going back and forth about it. And, unfortunately, but fortunately, I guess you could say, my husband and I have had a lot of experience advocating for family members in the hospital, so we felt pretty confident that we can do that part.
Although, we could have probably underestimated all the other emotions that would be involved in, labor, giving birth, but we've spent enough time in hospitals it felt like, okay, we can advocate and push back or, just get the things that we need to get when we need to get them.
So we were on the fence about a doula, but when we got there, we found out that there was a doula assigned to the labor and delivery unit, and I have to shout her out. Her name is Aylish. She was amazing, and ended up spending a lot of time with us, and brought in all the things. So they had the ball, the birthing ball.
They had, I forgot what this thing is called, but it's shaped like a U.
Lisa: Oh, the CUB! They have that. That's so good to know. Yeah, it stands for Comfortable Upright Birth. It's like an inflatable birthing stool.
Chantal: Yeah, yeah. So they have that, she brought that to me. She was like, you can try this and see how this feels. I spent a lot of time on the ball. And I had, I don't know if I had back labor, ultimately, because maybe I did, because it certainly started with a lot of pressure in my lower back. It eventually did move around to the front, which she explained to me would happen. And when I get my periods, that's where I usually, I don't really get cramps, I get back aches. So I was anticipating getting back pain in labor, but that was like another level of back pain.
But just like constant pressure, like either my husband and then at one point, he had to step out and she was there behind me, just keeping that pressure on my back, like helping me breathe through it. The one thing I'll say is that, in terms of another comfort measure, aside from the Cub and the birthing ball, she was bringing me these hospital gloves, filled with ice. So she would just fill them up with water and put them in the freezer.
And those things were magical. And I remember in class doing the ice exercise with you, and I hate cold things. I hate touching cold things. So if I get a drink at Starbucks or whatever, I always wrap a napkin around it if it's a cold drink. If I'm eating ice cream, there's always a napkin around it because I hate touching cold things. So when we were doing that exercise, I'm like, yeah, I'm probably not going to do this because I hate cold things.
Oh my gosh, that ice glove was the best thing in the world. Like I literally was like, give me more ice.
Lisa: On your wrist?
Chantal: On my wrist. I was just like.
Lisa: I was assuming like on your back or something.
Chantal: No, I was doing it to redirect that pain, I was like, give me that ice glove. And I think I went through three of them,and they were so good at helping to channel that pain somewhere else, that discomfort somewhere else.
So I was in love with these, such a simple thing. These medical exam gloves filled with water and in a freezer. So that was really great.
Lisa: I just want to mention, this such a funny coincidence, in my 14 years of doing this work, I've never heard of any person I've worked with using the ice exercise in labor, and now you're the second podcast birth story in last weeks that I've recorded, that will be airing in season four.
Chantal: Huh. Yes.
Lisa: Both of you did this ice exercise and found it helpful in labor.
Like, okay, maybe I need to mention, keep this as an option.
Chantal: Ask someone to freeze water in an exam glove and give it to you. Like it was so, I don't think I could have, honestly, I couldn't have gone as far as I did if I didn't have it.
Like that was critical to getting through those contractions. And then she also did the throne position with the hospital bed. So that helped a little bit, but as things progressed, and as the Pitocin increased, different things stopped working and you have to shift and it's also interesting, which I don't think I really thought about, but navigating, like going to the bathroom in the midst of contractions, even like just to use the bathroom, just to urinate.
Cause you're like, okay, I'm going to go when I have this little window, this little reprieve of pain so I can just sit down. And then a contraction hits you and you're like, oh, I'm going to fall off the toilet. It's so intense. And at one point we thought maybe I would shift to laboring on the toilet, like backwards.
So she tied a pillow around the back of the toilet and, Lisa, she put tea lights in the bathroom. The nurses and our doula were also all great about shutting the lights, keeping the lights low. And anytime anyone came in, it was very soft. It wasn't like, ah, I'm the nurse, like barging into your room, like they kept the door closed. We didn't even have to ask them to keep it closed.
They automatically walked out and closed the door. So like all of the things that we talked about in class about ways to make a hospital birth a little more like homey and less sterile, it was just happening just par for the course, and I was really surprised about that.
Lisa: Nice. That's great to hear. Cool.
Chantal: So I start with Pitocin about 10 o'clock and then my doctor checked me in the afternoon, I believe, I can't remember exactly when. And then she said she would come back around seven and check me. So I made up my mind, I'm like, okay, I just got to get to that.
I have to get to when she comes to check me again. I want to try to get to that point without an epidural. And then we'll see how I feel when I get there. And as the time kept ticking and we get closer to seven, I have made up my mind, I think I need the epidural.
Cause I was again, tired, and I was like, I just don't think I have the energy to go another five centimeters, or how, well at the time I didn't know it would have been about five centimeters. So I was like, this kicking up a notch, like a lot of notches. And I'm like, I don't know if I can make it.
So I had it in my mind.
Lisa: Pitocin is harder too.
Chantal: Exactly. And no. No, you're right. And that's the other thing I was realizing too, right, because they're like artificially increasing this Pitocin and so it's stressing your body in a different way. So I was just like, I don't know, if they're going to keep upping this IV here, I don't know, am I going to make it?
Asking for Epidural and Getting Much Needed Rest
Chantal: So she comes and she checks me at seven and she's like, you're four to five centimeters. I have to keep saying four, but I really think she said five. So I've now been saying four five because that makes me feel better about myself. So she's like, you're four to five centimeters. And I go, okay, can I have the epidural now, please?
And I fully expected, like most things in hospitals, when you ask for something, you're going to have to wait for an hour or however long. Everything was working in our favor that day because the anesthesiologist came in five minutes. She walked in. It was so fast, which was really a surprise to me, and I'm really nervous about it. I think, honestly, in some ways I was more nervous about the epidural and the catheter than I was about giving birth in some ways, because I'm just like, this feels really intense, you're sticking a needle in my back, and then a catheter. I was just like, this is a lot, but she was so gentle, so efficient I, you know, held on for dear life as those contractions were coming and she was doing that needle. It was great because she really worked with the contractions, so every time she had to do something, happened to be in between a contraction so I could really relax, and then when she had to do something, she could pull back when I had the contraction, but that went well. And then I just laid down, they were like, it's going to take a while to kick in, which made me really glad that I asked for it when I did. Cause like, if I had gone too much further, I might've been like, I can't, it's too much, but I was able to just hold on.
And then eventually, I just knocked out. Like I just was asleep like I've never slept before.
Lisa: Oh, yay for sleep. I'm so glad to hear that.
Chantal: It was wonderful. So I probably got the epidural around, probably 8 something. So by 10:30, the doctor comes in to check me. And she goes, we're a little concerned about the heart rate, the baby's heart rate, so we just want to check you and see where things are.
Which made me a little nervous, because I feel like those are the words and phrases that you hear before emergency C section, and I really didn't want one. I don't know, well, some people do want one, but I really didn't want one. So I was a little nervous, so she checks me and makes this face, and I'm like, oh God, she's gonna tell me, nothing has changed.
Pushing Stage and Baby’s Arrival
And she goes... You're fully dilated. And I was like, I am? And she goes... I feel the baby's head and I was like, you do?
So I've been telling people, I'm like, I'm glad they came in when they did, because he might've slipped out and I might not have noticed.
Lisa: Was gonna be a little on the smaller side too, can see.
Chantal: I was just, I had no clue. I was like, I felt nothing. It was a very good epidural situation.
So she's like, I gotta call your doctor, because this is happening right now. And I'm like, Oh, okay. So it's like this jolt out of my really pleasant nap.
So like, oh no, you have to have a baby right now. And I'm like, oh, okay. So we get ready and I pushed for 15 minutes and he was here. And, I ended up, which I didn't know about this, this goes a little bit into postpartum, we did purple pushing. That's what we did. And I ended up looking in the mirror like maybe two days, the day after I gave birth, and I was like, what are these freckles? And I had burst blood vessels in my face. I was like, what is going on? And I was like, Oh, it must be, I must've burst blood vessels trying to push. And I think too, because maybe everything started moving quicker, I don't know, this my theory, quicker than we anticipated, the epidural never got turned down so that I could feel, so I was still in the dark trying to channel like, where are my bowels, like how do I push, like trying to connect the mind and body. So it was a little hard, but they did say I did a good job pushing. But there was a little bit of a scare during the delivery because the monitor, we weren't sure if it was picking up my heart rate or if his heart rate was dropping. So even during the pushing, my doctor was kind of, she even said like after, I was pushing you a little bit more, faster than usual to make sure he got out okay, because they weren't, it was unclear what was going on with his heart rate.
But he came out, he, my husband tells this story, he came out, he peed, he cried, then he peed again.
Lisa: He peed all over you as soon as he was born?
Chantal: All over me. Twice. Then they put him on my chest, so we had a little bit, we had asked our practice before, they did a little bit of delayed cord clamping just, I think it was just a minute. It was great because like I said, we didn't know the baby's sex, and our doula did a little advocating and she asked my husband, she's like, do you want to announce, like what it is? And he was like, Oh yeah, like it wasn't even something we thought of to ask, so he got to say what it was after I was screaming, what is it? So they had all seen before I could see.
And then we had a whole hour of skin to skin time together before they, probably even honestly over an hour before they took him, and gave him the shots, the eye ointment, and all his vitals. And initially, the NICU pediatricians came in because I was 35 weeks and looked at him and were like he's good, like we're okay.
Baby Moved to NICU
And he was just over the automatic sort of NICU threshold weight wise. So they sent us upstairs, but it's not long after we're upstairs that the nurse is like, he's kind of cold. So we're going to put him in an isolette in your room just to see if that helps regulate his temperature. And then we noticed he wasn't really eating. Because we started with a bottle and he wasn't really taking it. And then, a couple hours later, staff from the NICU came up and said, he really needs to go down for 24 hour monitoring, because he's actually pretty cold, as he was really struggling to regulate his temperature.
And then there's this sort of cycle that starts where, they're cold so they can't regulate their temperature and they get sleepy, so they don't eat and then they don't have any energy to regulate their temperature. So it's just like this cycle. So they were like, we do have to take him down, and that was really devastating because he had come upstairs with us and then all of a sudden we had all these doctors in our room saying, we have to take him to the intensive care unit.
You're just like, what do you, I thought he was okay. And I'm just like, I just want my baby. Like, falling apart.
Lisa: I'm sure.
Chantal: It was just a really tough moment.
But yeah, so they ended up taking him down to the NICU, and then, from there, things really change because a lot of what you're told or what you anticipate in the hospital, especially when it comes to nursing and resting, is for, a full term baby that's not in the NICU, right, because for the mom whose baby's in NICU, you're not doing as much skin to skin as you want.
I mean, maybe you are. I personally felt really gun shy about removing him from the isolette in the chilly NICU, even though it was something that I could have done. I just felt like, well, he's in here because of temperature regulation issues. I don't want to cause, I just, I want him to get better. And I just felt nervous about taking him out and putting him on me in that cold environment.
So you don't have that as much, you're not resting as much because you're up going down to the NICU every chance you can get, to be with your baby and see your baby, in addition to trying to follow this really strict pumping regimen that the hospital had suggested, which was every two hours. Which is impossible, to really do and go to the NICU and feed yourself and make sure you sleep.
So it was like a really intense couple of days. I ended up having a little longer stay in the hospital, so that was helpful in the sense that I could just go downstairs and see him and then go back up to my room and try to do all the other million things I had to but getting discharged that day without him was really hard.
He ended up, let's see, I think I got discharged on Thursday or Friday and he came home the following Tuesday. So it was a couple days without him, and we tried to get rest as much as we could while he was still there. But again, you're up in the morning, you're running to the NICU and then, the NICU at Methodist, they have a sort of separate area for moms to pump. You can bring expressed milk. After a long saga while I was in the hospital, of getting engorged, trying to get the colostrum out, being up with one of the lactation consultants, who was great, her name is Latifa. She stayed with me from two 30 in the morning to like four, I don't know, some ungodly hour trying to like hand express to prevent me from getting engorged.
One of my nurses had flagged for her that like, I think she's getting engorged, can you go work with her? So it was like a lot of coordination between the nurses on the mother baby unit. There were also doulas on the mother baby unit and lactation consultants, as well. So there was like always someone stopping in to check on you, which I really appreciated.
Makes sleep hard, but it was nice to have that support. And additionally, when you leave, they say you can always call us. So that was also nice. I didn't anticipate that, I thought getting discharged from the hospital, that's all she wrote. But I even ended up calling at one point because I got engorged again, to be like, what do I, how do I fix this again? Like, why is this happening again? It's just, it's a tough journey when you have a little one in NICU. And then all the good feelings you're supposed to have with your newborn, you have the opposite. You're worried and you're stressed. So I'm sure that doesn't help milk production.
So it's just a challenge. And I think ultimately for us, him being in the NICU, him being five weeks early, we tried latching in the NICU, but he was small. He was just four pounds, 12 ounces. He was small, his mouth was also small. He also didn't have that last couple of weeks in pregnancy to work on the suck, swallow, breathe reflex.
So he's trying to figure that out while he's in the world. So there were just a lot of things, at least for me, against us and trying to establish a secure nursing journey. But I just kept pumping as much as I could, but ultimately found that really overwhelming.
Feeding Struggles and Decisions
Chantal: Ended up going through my insurance to speak with a lactation consultant, which is a great resource that I'm glad a lot of insurances cover. I know not all, but I'm grateful that many do, and had a really great consultation. And I was really grateful for the person who I worked with because she just laid out, this is what it will take to get him to latch and help him. I would have to use a nipple shield, it would be, like feeding him with the bottle, then trying to latch, finishing with the bottle if he doesn't, and it was just, this whole thing, and I just remember feeling, at the time, I was still pumping on this, or trying to pump every 2 hours, failing a lot of days, but trying to pump every two hours.
And I was like, I just, I feel miserable. I feel like the pump is my baby and the baby is not my baby. I don't get to spend time with the baby because I'm pumping all the time. So she was like, okay, let's reduce it to every three hours, see how that feels.
And then, this is what it will take if you want to establish a good latch and for him to nurse, and I decided, and she said this thing to me, her name's Shamina from, Cass Christopher Lactation. And she said this thing to me that was so powerful, she says as she's leaving, she's like, you just have to make a choice. You have to decide. And she goes, there's a lot more parenting to do outside of feeding. And that was really liberating and really comforting because I think I had unintentionally absorbed this idea that like I must nurse, he must, you know, receive breast milk like that has to be what it is, never mind the fact that I was formula fed and most people, I think honestly in my generation were, because of the sort of pendulum had swung to formula. So much so that I was having a conversation with my father, it's so funny, and he goes, so when do you give him formula? Like I'm telling him I'm pumping.
He's like, well, when do you give him like the real stuff is essentially what he was asking me because in his mind, that's just what you do. But the pendulum has swung to breast milk in ways that I think are helpful, but also I think, aren't in some ways because they create this cycle of like I'm failing as a mother if I can't do it or if my body won't do it. And I got to a place where I was like, even the pumping every three hours was overwhelming.
So I've ended up scaling myself down to pumping four times a day. And I was like, at the end of the day, what's important to me is that if I can give him breast milk, he gets something, but it's okay if it's not everything. And, it took a while to get to that place, but I'm so grateful for Shamina and just those wise words of there's a lot more in parenting than feeding. And that you just have to decide and you have to decide what's best for you.
And there's another thing that I saw on Instagram, this little role playing video that someone posted that was also helpful, in addition to my son's pediatrician, who was also helpful, just this idea that like, when we as moms think about what's best for our families, we don't think of ourselves as part of our families, right?
Like our family is, my kid, my spouse, whatever, the dog, or whoever, it's not me, So in terms of calculating when I was thinking like, okay, but what's best for the baby? What's best for my son? I didn't anticipate the toll that it was taking on me, and like, wait, that matters too, right?
Like it matters.
Lisa: What does your son need? He needs a mom who's healthy, right? Oh, and mental health matters.
Chantal: Mm-hmm.
Matters. Yeah. So I think once I was able to let those things go, which took several weeks and still pop up at times, as he gets bigger and his needs are greater, feeding wise, it shines a light on this inadequacy, so to speak, of like my milk production and just like, well, the bigger he gets the less satisfying or, filling, he won't be getting 40 to 50%. And now he's definitely not getting 50%. He won't be getting like 40 percent or 30 percent of his meals as breast milk, it'll be even less.
Adjusting to Allergy and Receiving Affirmations
Chantal: And that hurts because one, he does, he really enjoys it, but he also has a cow's milk protein allergy, so he's on hypoallergenic formula, which doesn't taste great. So I can see the difference when he has breast milk versus his formula. So I know it's not that tasty, and it's not like breast milk. I've had to go dairy free, which was a whole other thing I had to figure out. Another crossroads or fork in the road of am I gonna continue with this pumping and try to continue down this path, and now I can't have ice cream that I want, and I can't have cheese, and I can't have the things that make me happy while I'm hooked to this machine that's milking me like a cow. But I've successfully been dairy free for several weeks, and my motto with pumping and this whole breast, I don't even call it, I guess it is breastfeeding, but breast pumping journey and giving my son breast milk has been like, I'm going to do it until it feels difficult again.
So I'll keep going. And I was like, okay, I'm going to give this dairy free thing a shot. And at first I was like, I'm going to do it for one day. Let's see what happens. Then I did it another day, another day, another day. And in a place like New York City, it's a million alternatives you can find when you eat out and I guess too in our stores, right?
There are a little more robust dairy free options.
Lisa: Vegan things.
Chantal: And vegan things. So the transition hasn't been as miserable as anticipated and I've been able to stick with it, so that he could get breast milk for a little longer. And I still don't know how long I'm going to do it. I just take each day as it comes, each week as it comes, and we'll see how it goes, but I'm really getting to that place of like, formula is not a bad thing, it's nutrition, it's what he needs, it has what he needs, and that's okay. And one thing I'll share, another encouraging thing that my father told me, I'm very close to my dad, I was raised by him, my mom passed away when I was young. So we're like two peas in a pod. But he says to me, I call him and I'm just like,Oh, my God, I'm so sad. And this is what happened, and I don't know what to do. And he goes, the only thing you have to do is get up in the morning and look at your baby and say, that's my baby and love your baby. That's what you have to do. That's all you have to do. And to hear that from your parent was such an affirming thing and just so comforting.
And I'm like, you're right. That's all I have to do. Like, all these machinations I'm putting myself through, that's not what it's about. It's about, that's my baby, I love my baby. That's, he's like, that's what you have to do every day. That's it.
Lisa: Oh, I love that. What a great dad.
Chantal: He's great. So yeah, that's been my journey through, like, labor and delivery and, the early weeks of feeding and trying to navigate baby.
Fluid Retention
Chantal: The other thing I didn't mention was I remember you saying, during class, and Harold reminded me of this, about fluid retention, that you either sweat it out, cry it out, or pee it out, I think it was. What I didn't realize, for me what happened, is my whole, from waist down, I swole up like a balloon.
And I was like, what is going on? So much so that I kept asking the doctors, I was concerned about having a blood clot because I was like, this is, really... abnormal, like I have never been this swollen in my life and they were like, don't have a blood clot, like it was even on both sides, like almost exactly the same, there were no warm spots, nothing that would evidence that. And they were like, some of the nurses told me like, sometimes your body just hasn't yet realized it doesn't need to hold on to this extra fluid anymore, so it hasn't released it yet, so I was like, in so much pain, with this swelling, in addition to engorgement, in addition to the baby in the NICU.
And when I got discharged that day, I just came home and I just cried because I was so uncomfortable. It was just like, I don't want to be uncomfortable anymore. Everything hurts. I ended up having to get thigh high compression stockings to finally get this fluid out of my body, and sure enough, I swear that I did all three things, and finally, it went away.
Lisa: That first cry just wasn't quite enough.
Chantal: It wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. But it all went away, but that was something I didn't anticipate either. I'm like, oh, I didn't know that you could just be so swollen. And my blood pressure was fine, everything was fine, my body was just like, Ah, I have to hold on to this fluid, I think I still need it.
And finally it subsided, but those were some intense days, initially after birth. That first week after birth was pretty intense, but we made it, we made it, we're two months in.
Lisa: Oh my goodness. Wow.
NICU Tips and Advice
Lisa: So, for people who are listening, who might have a baby in the NICU, what are your top tips, having gone through that? If anything comes to mind specifically.
Chantal: Yeah, I think, and I want to acknowledge that my son had a pretty short NICU stay, there are people who have more intense experiences than me, and, that I think is for someone to speak on who has that experience.
But for our experience, I think it's really just trusting that they're in the right place. They're in the best place that they need to be in, for the support that they need. Like I think initially, especially as a first time mom, I just want my baby, but also just like recognizing that they're in the best possible place and trying to rest in that.
And the other thing was a tip that the NICU nurses gave us when we got discharged. They may have been the mother baby unit nurses, but just the idea of getting rest while you can because once they come home, you won't sleep anymore. So as hard as it is, try to get rest and build up your energy while they're in this safe space where you know that they're well taken care of.
And then I would also say just enjoy those moments. Some of our fondest memories are of those moments of holding him in NICU and he had a feeding tube for a short period of time as well and we look at those pictures often of just like how fragile but how amazing this little life is and just enjoying him as much as we could while he was in the NICU and just being there as much as we could and, reassuring him as much as he's aware that he needs reassurance, right?
But reassuring him that we're here, that we love you. Spending as much time as you can with your baby, it helps. It's hard to leave. It's hard to say goodbye at the end of the night. But, just enjoying those moments as they come, is really what helped us to get through.
Lisa: Those are great tips. Thank you.
Alright. Well, is that everything or was there anything else that you didn't get to share that you'd like to share?
Chantal: I don't think so. I think I hit on everything that I wanted to share. I hope I was coherent.
Lisa: Oh, you were very coherent.
Chantal: Okay.
Lisa: Impressively coherent for how young a baby you have.
Feeding in the NICU
Lisa: Oh, I did want to ask one other question if you don't mind. So, in the NICU, were they supplementing with formula or donor milk or, what was that looking like?
Chantal: Yeah, so I don't know, we were not offered donor milk.
So our first feed in the mother baby unit, the nurse helped me try to get him to latch, and he was so sleepy, he just wasn't even opening his mouth to latch. So then we tried with the bottle, and he would take such little amounts that it was like,he really needs to start eating.
So when he went to the NICU, they just continued with the bottle. There wasn't a discussion about an option for donor milk, but they did encourage me to try to get the colostrum out and send anything down to the NICU that I could, and they would do colostrum care, which is just like, put a Q tip in the colostrum and just rub it on his gums, whatever little bit I sent, they would give to him.
So they were really encouraging about that. Trying to colostrum out of your body is a whole other conversation because like, how does this, no one told me it was like tree sap. I was like, how does this stuff get out of here?
Lisa: It's very thick.
Chantal: It's so thick. So I'm trying to get it out. Eventually I got to the point where I could send like a half of a bottle, we're talking like, he was like 20 mls, like very small amounts at time. But they always welcomed you to pump and bring milk and they would store it there and give it to him. And then they would finish the feed with formula if need be. So they were very encouraging around breast milk positivity.
There was also a lactation consultant and a doula assigned to the NICU unit as well. So you also have that support there, which was great. The way that they have structured their doula and lactation program at Methodist is really amazing. And it's great. It's really supportive.
Lisa: Thank you. Yeah. I was just curious. I was thinking probably since your son was not very preemie and not as medically compromised as some preemie babies, I thought they'd be less likely to do the donor milk thing, because that can save some preemie babies, who are very compromised, save their lives, you know, but there is only so much of a supply of that.
Yeah, I was just curious about that.
Chantal: Yeah.
Closing Remarks
Lisa: All right. Well, thank you so much, Chantal. This has been so wonderful. It's really going to be helpful for listeners to learn about your experiences with the NICU and with Methodist and with their doula program and, just wishing you so many good things. And I really hope that I can see the three of you at an upcoming reunion. It would be so lovely.
Chantal: Yes, for sure. We'd love to see you for sure.
Well, thank you so much. This has been great.
Lisa: Thank you. Have a good night.
Chantal: All right, you too.
Lisa: Bye.
Chantal: Bye bye.