Birth Matters Podcast, Ep 116 - The Power of Consent & Connected Care in Homebirth & Post-Birth Hospital Transfer

In this episode, Sheyda and her partner Corentin (who goes by Coco) share their experience of having a home birth for their son, Hugo. They discuss their prenatal journey in choosing to give birth at home with a midwife team and doula team and how ideal their birth team was for them because they prioritized consent-based, connected care. They share how, while the labor and birth went pretty smoothly, Sheyda chose to transfer to the hospital due to heavy bleeding afterwards in order to recover more quickly. Coco reflects on the hours he had alone as a new dad with their newborn while Sheyda was in the hospital for just shy of a day. You’ll hear Sheyda & Coco emphasize the value of postpartum support from both friends and professionals such as a postpartum doula and pelvic floor therapist. Sheyda shares how these experiences inspired her to become a postpartum doula, stressing the significance of emotional and practical support for new parents.

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Episode Topics:

  • Sheyda had anxiety about pregnancy and childbirth before getting pregnant, but was introduced to hypnobirthing and home birth through friends and podcasts, which helped her feel more empowered and positive about the birthing process.

  • She initially considered having a midwife in the hospital but ultimately decided on a home birth due to her preference for a physiological and undisturbed birth. This decision was supported by her partner, Coco, who was fully supportive of her choice.

  • Consider the importance of providing a supportive and comfortable environment for pregnant individuals during prenatal care, including offering tests with consent and taking the time to address any concerns or questions.

  • Be mindful of the potential judgment and anxiety that can arise when sharing plans for a home birth, and consider the impact of discussing these plans with others during the pregnancy.

  • Hiring a doula can provide additional emotional support and expertise during pregnancy and childbirth, relieving pressure from the partner and creating a sense of trust and rapport with the birth team.

  • Prenatal preparation, including reading books and attending classes, can help expectant parents feel more informed and prepared for childbirth, but it's important to remain flexible and open to different birthing experiences.

  • The use of affirmations, hypnobirthing tracks, and a mother blessing ceremony played a significant role in Sheyda's labor experience, showcasing the potential benefits of holistic and supportive approaches to childbirth.

  • Home birth allowed for freedom of movement and mobility, which was key for coping with contractions and discomfort during labor.

  • Sheyda's experience with home birth and the importance of taking a moment to pause and recuperate after the baby is born.

  • Sheyda's postpartum hemorrhaging and the midwife's prompt and effective response to the situation, highlighting the importance of being prepared for potential complications during childbirth.

  • Sheyda discussed her experience with a home birth and the complications she faced, including a hemorrhage, choosing to go to the hospital for stitches. She highlighted the importance of having a supportive team, including a doula and midwife, during this challenging time.

  • Sheyda sought out pelvic floor physical therapy postpartum to address any symptoms and ensure proper care and support for recovery.

  • Consider the importance of taking time as a couple to bond with the newborn in the first 30 days, and the value of having a support system in place for both the birthing person and the primary caregiver.

  • Consider timing for postpartum support: It's important to consider the timing for bringing in support during the postpartum period, especially when one partner goes back to work. This can help with the initial bonding as a new family unit and provide a less disruptive transition.

  • Create your own support team: Surround yourself with professionals and friends who can provide care and help during the postpartum period. It's important to have a team of people who care about you and can offer practical support, such as providing meals or helping with household tasks.

Interview Transcript

Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters podcast. Today I'm so excited to have former students with me, Sheyda and Coco. Welcome to the show. 

Sheyda: Thank you. 

Lisa: Would you please just take a few moments to introduce yourselves?

Introductions and Parenthood Journey

Coco: So my name is Coco, or Corentin. I am French, I've been living here in New York for 10 years, and I'm the proud dad of Hugo, who was born on October 2022, the 2nd of October 2022.

Sheyda: And I'm Sheyda. and we live in Brooklyn. We've been together for many years. And we were, of course, very excited to expand our family when Hugo came along. 

Lisa: And I just want to add that I just got an email from one of Coco's colleagues from a soccer league and, looping in, there's three dads total who have taken my class over the last couple of years. And it was so fun to hear how you all had been comparing notes and realized, Oh, we all took Birth Matters class at different times.

And just like pitching the idea of having at least two, or maybe all three of you dads together for a podcast episode. I'm really hoping that we can do that because it would just, it's something that hasn't happened before. And that would be so much fun to have, more than one dad, and just dads too, on the podcast to shoot the breeze and really, share some wisdom for expectant dads.

And, yeah, so I'm hoping. I think it would be really cool to have this back to back as two back to back episodes. So we'll see if that happens. Stay tuned. 

Coco: Definitely. Let me know. 

Lisa: Great. All right. Why don't we jump into anything you would like to share about your conception journey or your prenatal journey.

From Anxiety to Empowerment

Sheyda: Yeah, I think, before getting pregnant, I think the years leading up to like thinking about becoming a parent, I was quite anxious about being pregnant and giving birth particularly. I had a couple of friends who went before me, who I spoke with a lot, asking them a lot of questions and one in particular had given birth at the Brooklyn Birthing Center, actually.

And she told me about hypnobirthing and she gave me an in to find a more positive way or a more empowering way to look at birth. And so in that, in those years, I also started listening to podcasts. I learned about home birth. I didn't know if I would do a home birth, but then, when I got pregnant, I had some, I just had a lot of anxiety going to the office, like the OBGYN offices. And so first, I was thinking, Oh, maybe I can have a midwife in the hospital. Cause maybe we'd be more comfortable in the hospital. And then we interviewed an independent midwife who delivered at the hospital, and that was really helpful because I think she could tell that I was trying to like, make it more like it was obvious I wanted, like a physiological birth and I wanted to be undisturbed. And she, at one point in the consult was like, it's still a hospital, even if I'm caring for you. And then she gave me a detail, which just depends on your preferences, but the detail she gave me is when you go to the hospital, you get an IV put in right away. That's what she's told me and I felt like I just don't want anything that I don't need basically for my birth. So yeah, through some of my prenatals at my regular gynecologist office plus like that conversation, I eventually, one night couldn't sleep and I just was like, I really want a home birth and so I told Coco the next day and he was like, whatever you want, we will do it. What do you think about that part? 

Support and Decision-Making: Partner Perspectives

Coco: Yeah. I think for me, it's like what matters was what you wanted. I think it's such an incredible journey, but also a hard one to give birth, like physically speaking, and even mentally speaking.

So I think going back to the idea of home birth versus hospital birth, the first question I asked you, I think, when you mentioned home birth, I was like, wait, is this stuff like risky, dangerous, like this type of thing? Because obviously it's really medicalized, the idea of giving birth, and there's so many things that could go wrong when you do all the scenarios and it's like the one thing in life you don't want anything to go wrong.

So it's like, how do you like, prepare yourself and make sure the room is fully padded with everything you can. but I think ultimately, the idea grew in me to have birth at home because ultimately it was like, what would make you the happiest and what would make you feel the most comfortable?

And that was me to accept and not like me trying to convince Sheyda to change her mind. And I thought this was important. And I think, a little thing also I learned with your class, Lisa, down the line was, birth is a natural process and giving birth is a natural process, so why does it need to be fully medicalized?

Why does it need to be a doctor that needs to be here when there are people like midwives who are like qualified to do so and they take all the precautions before to make sure everything is okay and there is no issue and there's always the possibility to go to the hospital. But I think these two realizations were key for me to be like, okay, it's natural.

So let's just do it the most natural way possible because this is what Sheyda wants. So let's go with it and I'll tag along in the journey. 

Lisa: That's such a supportive partner thing to do and pretty uncommon. I've worked with a lot of people, where the birthing parent really was like, yeah, I really wanted a home birth, but my partner wasn't on board, which is actually going to be, it will have already aired before this one airs, but the first episode of this fourth season is going to be something along those lines where she actually ended up giving birth in her apartment. I was like, her psyche was not going to have that hospital birth because they had planned it since her husband wasn't comfortable. She was like, Nope. And it wasn't like a conscious thing. It was a very subconscious, no, my body is just doing this, yeah. But back to the two of you, Coco, I wonder if, I'm just curious, it sounded like Sheyda just was like, I want to do this, and you were like, sure I support you. But was there a longer journey where she explained the reasons or did you do some reading?

Coco: It was not as easy as her saying, let's do this and say yes, but I think back to what I just said, it's such a toll like physically and mentally on our body and I just know Sheyda, we've been together for, 10 years and I just know what she likes and what she dislikes and physical comfort is something that is so important to her, that knowing that if we were to do this at a hospital she would be hooked up to an IV and like the machine beeping on and on, I just knew that her mind would not be in the right place for this journey of giving birth to happen how she wanted. 

So I think on my end, I didn't do much reading. I tend to believe that the medical system is good, and the people we work with and we chose, were the best we could find.

And I think the midwives we work with, Chloe and Sorayya, were really awesome in making us comfortable. And we can dive after the day of, I think, I've never felt anxious during the day of the birth. I really felt everything was in control at all times, even though there were moments where like seeing Sheyda in pain and looks on her face that were like, Oh my God, what is happening?

Preparing for Home Birth and Navigating Family Reactions

But I just felt everything was under control, then. Ultimately, yeah, it was just working as planned and it was going naturally as planned, even in a small, tiny New York apartment.

Lisa: Yeah, that is a common concern I hear too, is like our apartment's too small. . 

Coco: Oh, that was my first question. I was like, it's true. Hang on. You wanna put a pool in there? Like we have what, 600 square feet, top 700 like, We put a pool, like, where are we going to do this? How do we arrange everything? And it was just like, don't worry. It's going to happen. We've done it in smaller things. Don't worry about the neighbors. It's New York. Nobody cares. 

Sheyda: And if they do, one of us will say something. 

Coco: Really, yeah, it was not a straightforward journey, but it was not a complicated one either on my end to accept that process. But I can give the fact that we hid this from our families because we didn't want to make them worry.

And we don't want to have this anxiety looming over us as a cloud of anxiety, be like, Oh, are you sure it's safe or

Sheyda: I think I told, yeah, I told my family at some point, but yeah, we kept it to ourselves for a while. Just because, yeah, a lot of people can have some strong feelings when you share you're planning to give birth at home. 

Lisa: Oh, yeah. 

Sheyda: When you're pregnant and planning to do that, you just really don't need to be on the receiving end. I remember once we had some friends over that, their immediate reaction when we mentioned, Oh, we're going to do it here at home, it was the stuff that you don't really want to hear.

And, luckily Coco took the lead in that conversation and after that happened, I told him for the rest of the pregnancy, I'm not gonna do any education on this. I'll do it afterwards, but not while I'm like preparing myself. 

Lisa: That's so wise. Everyone, anyone who's thinking about doing a home birth, planning a home birth, listen to that advice. Really be careful about who you share that information with. You will get so much judgment and alarm. And like you said, just bring about some anxiety that's not going to be helpful. Yeah. And just work, like you were saying, I don't want to have to educate people.

Sheyda: Yeah. That's not the time, I think. Now I've done it, so I would love to talk about it, but yeah, not when you don't know how it's going to go yourself, and you're about to do it. 

Deciding on Home Birth and Midwifery Care

Lisa: So do you remember around what point in your pregnancy you made this choice? 

Sheyda: Pretty early on. Yeah. 

Coco: Easily three, like I would say 12 weeks, 12, 16 weeks. Yeah. 

Sheyda: It was before 12 weeks. Cause we ended up doing the 12 week ultrasound still at the practice, but then, but yeah. I loved my midwife care. And, one of the differences that I really loved, so those early prenatal appointments, like the very first prenatal appointment I had in an office,I didn't know what to expect and they took me into the room and I had to get changed.

I had to get naked in the gown. And then they did, I knew that I was only five weeks pregnant, they thought I was a little further along because of dating my period. And so they did the ultrasound. I didn't even know I was going back into a room to do an ultrasound.

And then they did a vaginal ultrasound and that wasn't really explained a lot. And so it gave me anxiety. You're in a gown and then you're being told, you're already naked and you're being told like what's going to happen or like barely told and it's already happening and so I just, really didn't like that.

And all of my prenatals with my home birth midwives, I was fully clothed every time for all of them. And we just got to sit on a comfortable couch. And, it was also, so it was a duo of midwives, Chloe and Sorayya. So it was one of them there for the appointment and they would alternate.And that's it.

So I didn't have to worry about who am I going to interact with in this appointment? There was like nobody else to like, take me back to measure me. Another detail I love is they never took my weight, which I think is really wonderful. Because it's not that important. I think that can also cause some just like feelings that you don't need when you're pregnant.

 So it was just super pleasant. Yeah. And every appointment was 45 minutes long. So we had time for them to offer us tests. I like to emphasize the part that consent is really built into the way that they work with their clients. Yeah, everything was phrased more as like, we offer this, this, this, it's not like a nurse being in the middle of doing something as they're telling you what's happening. You talk about it first and then you make a decision.

Oh, yeah, we'll do these tests this time, or maybe we'll do it next time. You're not rushed to make a decision. You have a lot of time to ask questions. And I just think everyone should have that kind of prenatal care. 

Lisa: Everybody deserves that, but hardly anybody gets it. 

Sheyda: Yeah. So that was something I really loved about my care. 

Coco: Yeah. I think you were treated as human. Yeah. And not as much as almost a product, I don't want to say animal because it's the wrong word. 

Lisa: Or a number. The term I hear a lot of my clients say is I feel like a number.

Coco: Exactly. 

So that was like the good parts, like everything felt natural, questioning, listening to the body, hearing what's happening, but everything in a really natural and human way. Which is, you know, it's important, especially like I feel in a city like New York, where the connections with people are not that easy often.

So feeling that connection, like human connection, when you go for a moment that is so important in your life was key. And even me, I was going to this appointment, I was actually happy to be there. And I didn't feel like the dread of oh, I'm going to a hospital or something like that.

So again, it was something for us. We liked it this way. It's not for everyone. It's not a criticism of one or the other. It's just like the way it was done was really nice for us. 

Sheyda: And we were really sad for the last postpartum appointment to be like, Oh, this is done with you all. Yeah, it was really sad. Yeah.

Lisa: Because they become like family to you, right? Yeah. 

Sheyda: Yeah. It was lovely working with them. 

Choosing Doulas

Lisa: And then at what point in your pregnancy did you, and how, did you decide to hire a doula ? 

Sheyda: Um, so I knew for a long time I would want a doula, just I guess through my friend who had given birth, at the birthing center, she had a doula and I also felt like it's a lot of pressure to put just on the partner to be emotional support.

They've also never been through it before, so why not have somebody who's like, this is what they know, be there. They properly know how to support somebody through all the stages. We actually hired our doulas first, it was Sarah Grace and Beth. They were working together.

And yeah, when we talked to them, we just felt like they were, they're just really friendly and funny and easy to get along with. So I felt at ease with them.And then I even got to speak with Sarah Grace when I was picking my midwife, just to bounce my feelings and thoughts.

And, yeah, so that was also really amazing to have. I really liked the duo format. I feel like you get even extra care, even if one midwife and one doula's at the actual birth, there's so much that happens prenatally and postpartum anyway. I feel like it was a really good team.

Lisa: Yeah. That's right, and I should have said doulas plural because I was forgetting that you gave birth before Sarah Grace left to go to Yale midwifery school. And I knew that Beth had attended your birth, so forgive me and I should have said doulas plural. They're so great. Yeah. Yeah. 

Coco: I think for the doula perspective, so first of all, shout out to the two of them because they were awesome. So Sarah Grace and Beth, thank you if you ever listen to that. 

I think on our end, it was actually stressful, the picking of the doula, because we're not really super prepared people, like we rarely plan in advance, like you should see our holiday calendar, what it looks like. But I remember it was week 10 or something, now you started talking about it and we're starting to reach out, you were starting to reach out to people, and it was like, Oh, sorry. I'm fully booked for September, fully booked for October. And we're like, it's March, are people like planning to have a doula before even knowing they're pregnant?

Lisa: Experienced ones book out really early. 

Coco: It was wild. And I think it was adding a little bit of stress at the very beginning. Oh, how are we going to do, we need one. I personally never heard of what a doula was before. So I was like, okay, sure. If you say we need one, then we need one.

It is what it is. And I think it made finding them really stressful, but yeah, we actually only interviewed two doulas, like one person on their own, then Sarah Grace and Beth. And yeah, we just felt like at the end of it, the conversation with the two of them, it was like, pretty obvious that we like them, so we should go with them.

And to emphasize what Sheyda said about the duo, I don't know if it's a mind game or something, but it makes it safe to know there are two. Because if one is not available, you know the other one will be. 

Sheyda: You're pretty sure you will know the people that are going to be there. 

Lisa: Yeah, you've built a rapport. 

Sheyda: Yeah. 

Coco: And at any time, should there be any issue, you know somebody will be, like the other one will be here. And you have already talked to that person. Yeah. I think that the dynamic of a duo was good also for us. Yeah. In knowing ahead of time because you don't want any unknown in a birth.

Sheyda: That's also why you preferred, when we were interviewing midwives here, Sorayya and Chloe because there were two, yeah, working together. 

Lisa: Did you go to, their office was in Long Island City, right? Did you go there for all of the appointments or toward the end, did they come to you?

Sheyda: Yeah, I think they did one prenatal at home early on and then the rest were in their office. 

Coco: Towards the end as well. 

Sheyda: And then towards the end, back at home. Yeah. I can't remember how many weeks, but yeah, the last they see you weekly at the very end. Yeah. And they would come to our home, which is also really nice.

Lisa: Nice. And you're in nearby Greenpoint. So it was pretty convenient.What else do you want to share prenatally?

Coco: Sheyda read a lot of books about birth and everything.

Lisa: I remember on the birth class intake, a list, and I was excited. I always love it when clients are coming to class well prepared, well read. 

Sheyda: We were nervous coming to your class. 

Coco: I did read nothing. 

Lisa: And that's okay, that's why you came to birth class. I'm sure, I would guess. 

Coco: Which was good for me, cause I didn't want to think about every possible scenario. I just wanted to go with the flow and I'm surrounded by a team I trust, and we got to win this together. So that's, I don't need to learn about it because there will be professionals that I trust and we'll do this together and then the little cherry on top with your class where we get some tips and tricks on the day of, before, or after. And when we were preparing the interview earlier 

All Audio: Earlier. So it 

Coco: was like, make sure you tell Lisa that you forgot to take your ring, and therefore I crushed your hand.

Sheyda: Yeah. He forgot to take his ring off and in your class, you tell the partners to make sure you take any rings off. 

Coco: So everyone, take your ring off because it hurts. 

Lisa: But you didn't get a broken finger, I hope. 

Coco: No, no, no. But I was really hurt. And I was like, all right, the wave is about to be done. The wave is about to be done.

Lisa: The other thing that I got a kick out of that you mentioned when you announced the birth to your classmates was Lisa, we should have listened to you on the tip about covering the penis to avoid getting sprayed. It's going to happen though, right? It's inevitable. We do what we can and it's inevitable. Yeah.

Coco: That is correct. Yeah. 

Support and Preparation

Lisa: Was there anything else that you found useful from class or that you wish you had done that you learned? 

Sheyda: Prenatally, I was really into hypnobirthing and trying to prepare myself to relax and surrender, which is totally not how labor went for me at all, which I'm glad to know.

And then in your class, you said you don't have to like it, you just have to do it. And that was one thing that I, when you said it in the class, I was like, Oh, I like that. And I think that attitude more carried me through than trying to surrender. 

Lisa: Right? 

Sheyda: And then also the low sounds.

I really kept that in mind too. You mentioned how, when you're vocalizing to try to keep it low. And that definitely helped me.

Lisa: Is there anything else in prenatal journey and if not, you can just jump into your birth story and that can even start, in the weeks leading up to, or right when it starts, whatever you want. 

Sheyda: I guess we can just talk about the day, huh? Yeah. 

Coco: Yeah. 

Beginning of Labor

Sheyda: Um, It was a rainy Sunday. It was very cozy. And I woke up around 3 or 4 a. m. and I couldn't really sleep. And now I realize I was having very little contractions. They felt like period cramps. I remember, I don't know if it was from class or somewhere else, like the idea of maybe take a bath, try to rest. And I took a bath at 4 or 5 AM. And I remember in the bath I could notice, Oh, there's like,Oh, these are keep coming back. These like cramp feelings and then they go away. But I feel like it did relax me a bit. And I tried to go back to bed, but it was pretty hard to sleep.

Lisa: And just to clarify, was this around right after your due date, is that right? 

Sheyda: Yeah, it was two days after my due date that he was born. Yeah. And that just started. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I remember it just felt good, like cozy. It was, yeah. Cozy rainy Sunday. 

Coco: Yeah. And actually on the due dates, your due date, and, medically speaking, was September 30th.

But like you use this thing called natural cycle. Oh yeah. That said it would be on the second. 

Sheyda: Yeah, that's true. When I, yeah, I use natural cycles. And that's how, so we're going to go back to like prenatally, I went to the doctor and I knew I was five weeks pregnant. And based on my period, for some reason I had ovulated late.

So based on my period, I thought it was like eight weeks. It was actually very stressful because they did the ultrasounds, which I didn't know they were going to do, which is, I hated that I didn't know ahead of time. And they were like, Oh, we can't really see a heart rate. And I was like, well, is it too early? Cause I think I'm five weeks. And they're like, it could be too early. So maybe you'll come back next week. And I was like, no, I'm coming back three weeks later. I'm not going to keep doing this back and forth. And I, even then I just like next time around, I probably won't consent to anything until 12 weeks, probably to just because I just felt like it didn't tell.

I guess it helps them date the pregnancy. But anyways, that's true. When I entered my positive pregnancy test into my app, when I first thought I was pregnant, it gave me October 2nd and that was the day he was born.

Lisa: That is so interesting. Yeah.

Coco: So leading up to it, I know like we had shared like September 30th with most of the people around and so people have this in mind, Oh, it's going to be this Friday, like Friday in a week or something like that.

And ultimately I remember you were like, it happens when it happens. 

Sheyda: In my head, I was going to go past 41 weeks. I was just like, let's not put any pressure. 

Lisa: Better to prepare for that. Yeah. Since it's really common. 

Coco: That was the flow that we were going with. And yeah, I think the day it happened, as you mentioned, it was a Sunday and the morning of, I remember making French toast because you were craving this at the time, one of these cravings that pregnant women have, I guess.And yeah, we just went about our day and I remember even like I had a soccer match I gave the jerseys that I washed like for my team to go play. 

Sheyda: Because you were like probably not going 

Coco: Yeah, I remember telling a lot of people like texting a lot of friends like, I think today's the day. 

Sheyda: Me, because even in class, you talk about how you could be in like early labor for days.

So I was thinking, Oh, something's happening, but maybe I'm going to give birth tomorrow. It didn't take that long. 

Coco: Yeah. I think you're around like 12, that's when you called, we called the midwife, Sorayya, to be like, Hey, like starting to get a bit faster, like we're probably going to need you to come.

Sheyda: Actually I had tested positive for GBS. So they, we knew that like once my water broke, they would have to come and give you, is it antibiotic? 

Lisa: Yes. Yeah. Antibiotics. 

Sheyda: So I think I talked to them around 10 actually, and they're like, okay, keep us posted. And we didn't communicate very well with our doulas.

We did tell them in the morning, Hey, I'm feeling something. But my water broke at noon. And that was pretty funny because I always thought things were not going to be as dramatic as the movies. So it really was like, gush of water, luckily in the bathroom, but then it just kept going. And I was like, how much water is. And so then that's when we called the midwives again and then they got ready to come meet us.

And I think they arrived around two. 

Coco: No, much like around one. It was like within an hour. Yeah. 

But I think to go back to the water breaking, I remember you're in the bathroom and I see your head and you look at me like, My water broke! 

Sheyda: No, you were on the phone with your sister in the kitchen, and I looked at him, I was like, my water broke, and you were kind of like, okay, bye!

Coco: But yeah, then around one, we had Sorayya coming and just did all the tests and everything, and we felt Yeah, it's starting like now it's game time. Pretty much. 

Sheyda: Yeah. Oh, my memory is, one thing I learned in your class was about the Expectful app, which I really enjoyed, when I was pregnant and postpartum and there were some hypnobirthing tracks that were really nice.

So once I started feeling, Oh, these ways are getting regular, maybe I'm going to try to find some rhythm and I had a banner up with that, that my friends and family had written like affirmations and stuff on in my bedroom. So I was looking at it. Yeah, I 

Lisa: Was that like a shower thing?

I'm sorry to interrupt you. 

Sheyda: Yeah, that's okay. I did. I did a mother blessing. 

Lisa: That's right. You mentioned that. 

Sheyda: Which was really nice. Yeah, it was really nice. And so part of the mother blessing was, yeah, I had gotten a banner kit so everyone could decorate it and they wrote like different affirmations.

Labor Escalates Quickly

So that was like, that was nice and cozy. But then I tried to fit that hypnobirthing track, and that's when I remembered who I am, trying to listen to something and I was like, no, I do not need any words anymore. And I think, I threw the headphones across the room, and I don't know if that happened before or after, the midwives arrived, but that was like my turning point, and it was probably between 12 and 2 that it went from Oh, I'm in labor to like, Oh, I don't like, like once the contractions were coming, I had to like not be disturbed.

Yeah. 

Coco: Yeah. And I think overall, like you went pretty fast because then we told Beth that it was really happening. Sorayya was here. I remember Beth was like, Oh, sh*t, like traffic. Yeah. 

Sheyda: Poor Beth. Because we told her in the morning, Oh, something's starting. And then we, because we had homebirth midwives and they had to come for the GBS, I think I was like, yeah, it'll happen tomorrow. Totally not in a rush. But because they had to come, luckily, I had to call them to come for that, because then it progressed quickly. So we hadn't talked to our doulas at all, and then I think I was in a state of oh my god, when is Beth coming here, that Coco was like, okay, Beth, come! 

Coco: Yeah, and she's stuck in traffic, and So I ended up having to do the hip squeezes and things we learned in your class. Didn't remember them quite well, but. 

Lisa: That makes me wonder if she wasn't at home when you called her, because doesn't she live in your neighborhood?

Coco: She's not. She's not. 

Sheyda: She does, she was on a prenatal visit. Yeah, that's what I mean by the lack, like, silence communication from us. 

Coco: I said we're not good planners.

Sheyda: I was on hands and knees during contractions, Coco was like squeezing my hips with his legs and then he was digging his fist into my lower back. And I remember if he would even walk away for a second, I would be like, do not, don't you dare walk away. And our apartment's tiny. And didn't you say you started sweating?

So once I could, 

Coco: It was so hard. I never put so much strength in my legs. 

Lisa: It's a good workout, right? 

Coco: The day after, my whole body was sore, and at some point, like, when this was happening, I was like, pressing, pressing, I was in sweatpants, I was like, okay, it's going to be a cozy day.

And I was sweating so much that I had to change to wearing shorts. 

Sheyda: And I was like, don't you dare leave. And you were trying to change really fast. 

Coco: It took me 20 seconds. That was it. But yeah, so all the pictures of the birth, I'm in gym shorts. Which is not the best, but oh well.

Sheyda: And I do remember,maybe, do you mention it in your class about how,if it takes time for somebody to arrive, just don't tell the birthing person how long, how far away the doula is or anything. I can't remember. 

Lisa: I don't think I've mentioned that. But that's a good tip. 

Sheyda: So yeah, so Coco was like telling Beth, okay, time to come.

And Beth was like, wait, what? So I'd be like, when's Beth coming? And Coco would be like, soon. And I would be like, you're lying. And then hearing the midwives laugh. 

Lisa: Soon is generally a good thing in birth in general, because we don't know. Yeah. 

Sheyda: And then Beth, she told me, I talked to her afterwards, she said, yeah, when I walked in, they were putting up the pool, they were putting water in it, you were in the bedroom, so she just let herself in.

Because Coco was with me in the bedroom and I was like on the floor leaning over my bed and she, right when she walked in, she swooped at eye level. And I was like, Beth I can't do it, I can't do it. And she was like, you're already doing it. And it just gave me a breath of fresh air to get you like, okay, let's like, find a new rhythm or find something else.

So it was yeah. I feel like from that point on, you were more like my birth ball and she was more like the hip squeezes. 

Coco: Yeah. 

Sheyda: Yeah. 

Coco: You have to be in shape. 

Lisa: You got a break, but did you get to change your sweatpants? 

Coco: I did. I had already done it. 

Lisa: Oh, you had, okay. Yeah. 

Coco: Okay. But I think one thing is I've ended up carrying her, like being in position, I was like, thank God I'm half fit because it was physical for me and obviously it was physical for you. But yeah, just like being the support and helping with squeezes and such. And I think ultimately, when looking back at the birth and everything, I just feel like I was an integral component of it and not just a-- 

Sheyda: Bystander?

Coco: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thank you for finishing that sentence. So it was good for me. I feel that, yeah, I was part of that moment rather than just like watching on the sideline and letting other people do it, which still happened, you know, like, I helped fill the pool, and I helped with the squeeze. 

Sheyda: But you helped a lot. 

Coco: Food or drinks, that was one thing you mentioned about keeping the person hydrated at all times. Obviously like at home there was no IV or anything. So I was like the water carrier the whole time, like following Sheyda with my glass of water and the straw to make sure she would drink. 

Sheyda: Yeah, the bendy straw is an awesome tip that I still love now to this day.

And definitely postpartum too. So during birth and postpartum, that was. 

Coco: So yeah, it felt good on my end to just be a full part of the experience. 

Support Positions

Sheyda: Yeah. Yeah. There was one point where, I guess baby was getting quite low in my pelvis. I was leaning on Coco's, like my hands around his neck and I was just like, nobody taught me this, so that's cool that you get to follow your body, and I didn't actually, consciously make the decision either. I was just squatting up and down, up and down, hanging on to Coco for support, so he was squatting up and down with me. 

Yeah, and I, even though I was really like, obviously in it and not feeling great, there was like a piece of my brain thinking, this is pretty funny.

We're doing this right now. Just like squatting right next to, in our tiny apartment, right next to the bed. And yeah, nobody decided it. It just happened.

Coco: And we did at some point, cause obviously Sheyda was loud, of course. 

Sheyda: Yeah, I was very loud. Yeah. 

Coco: We did have at some point a neighbor come, but not knocking at the door, just being in the hallway and being like, is everything okay? 

Sheyda: They were scared. So they didn't want to get all the way up there. 

Lisa: That's an unusual New Yorker. Usually everybody just tunes it out. How long have they lived here? 

Coco: It was a, it's a small building, it was six units and we saw all of our neighbors. We never really talked to one another, but I think just them hearing loud yells. 

Sheyda: Yeah. I wasn't just groaning at that point. I think I was like, some contractions, I was yelling, get out, like to the baby, get out. So I feel like, I don't know what else-- 

Lisa: That could be somebody suspicious of abuse, maybe. 

Sheyda: Yeah. Yeah. 

Lisa: Okay. Interesting. Get out, eviction notice. 

Coco: Ultimately Beth went to the hallway and she was like, it's fine, it's just a birth. Yeah. Just a birth.

Sheyda: And then the other piece I remember is at one point I was like on my knees on the bed and Coco was sitting on the edge with his back towards me, and that's when I was using him as a birth ball, was like rocking and he was like leaning forward. And then like Beth was behind me, like doing the hip squeezes.

So those are the two things that I could remember. Yeah. I don't remember anything else about coping with contractions or- 

Coco: I think what was good for you was that you were moving around the apartment, sounds like it's massive when I say that, but you were like able to go from one room to the other, from the bedroom, to the living room, to even like the bathroom if you needed to, so you had just like this freedom of movement that you would not have had at a hospital.

And I think for you, that was key. 

Sheyda: Yeah. I think, now I realize, when you actually in your class, you do like an exercise where we have to with the ice cube and you are like using an ice cube on your wrist to see how you deal with discomfort, and, I think that's a really good tip to just think about how do you normally deal with discomfort or pain or being sick.

And mine is usually crying out for help and movement, writhing, like that's what I do when I don't feel well. And that's how I coped also during labor. So I think that's another reason why home birth was probably a good fit for me. 

Lisa: Yeah. Much more freedom and mobility hooked up to nothing usually, because I guess you had to hook up to the IV for antibiotics. 

Sheyda: Yeah, I had a heplock. So she gave me that, and then the IV, luckily, if we talk about like the end, it was still in, but nothing was going in. Which I loved. I loved knowing that I would know exactly what I was getting at all times.

So that's also what you get with home birth midwives. They're always telling you before they administer something. So it's not like a free for all where you're just connected and you don't always know what's going in. 

Coco: Yeah. 

Sheyda: Yeah. Let's see what else about the birth. I don't remember a lot of it in detail anymore. But there's always, people hold on to like key moments, and I remember before Beth arrived. I had thought, Oh, like maybe, I'm going to give birth tomorrow, and then it started getting difficult. And I told my midwife, Oh my God, how can I do this, if I already feel this bad, like it's too early.

And she was like, we don't know that it's too early. I haven't checked you. And that was another thing I love. No cervical checks. I love that. And I didn't have any and we didn't need it because- 

Lisa: Not one? Oh, that's so cool. 

Experiencing Transition

Sheyda: The one thing I like, after I gave birth, I reread a bit, the book, The Birth Partner, which I think is a really good book, that there's a section that shows you the emotional stages you go through. And I was like, after I gave birth, I reread that and I was like, oh yeah, I definitely went through that emotional stage and that, and so that's also a good gauge where people are in labor is just, how they're like, expressing their feelings and, I think when you start getting doubtful, or if you start getting like, I want this to be over, that's usually meaning like transition is coming. And, so, yeah, that's a memory I had. 

And then another memory I have is, that I like to talk about, is how incredible the switch was, in terms of contractions, when it was like, more the, I don't know what stage it's called, but when you, when the cervix is fully dilated. So now, your uterus is like, pushing down. 

Lisa: Pushing. Yeah, the stage 2. Technically. 

Sheyda: Yeah, the 1st time it happened, it really felt like a reverse throw up.

Like, I remember even moving with it, it was quite overwhelming. But not painful, just powerful. And when I was in my prenatals, I read a lot of birth stories, and I always heard about transition, and so I'd always bring it up with my midwives. I just can't get over this idea of going through transition. I just don't want to do it. And I found in labor that was like, In terms of laboring and pushing, transition is the hardest part. And, that's when you need the most emotional support, which is what's so great about having a doula or having a partner that knows you and knows what to say to you, having midwives who are also used to seeing people go through this and know what to say to you.

I don't really remember what was said to me, but that was the part where I felt the most desperate. 

Lisa: Yeah, Coco, do you remember any of that transition time? 

Coco: No, because it didn't strike me as something that different, maybe a tiny bit more intense, but it's short. 

Sheyda: Like that was probably when I was yelling get out.

Coco: Yeah, but it's like max 30 minutes, which is not much. 

Sheyda: I think I also had, I think I was probably talking a lot to myself. I remember my thoughts during that period. My thoughts were very much like, I'm never doing this again, this is total bullsh*t. 

Lisa: Sounds like transition.

Sheyda: I'm like, next time I'm getting an epidural and then I was like, no, that's not even worth it.

Next time I'm getting a C section. And then I was like, no, I'm never doing this. That was like my self-talk, but I wasn't saying it out loud. That's what I was, between contractions, I was thinking during that stage. 

Coco: I think you just got, you were disappointed that you didn't use the pool as much as you wanted to.

Sheyda: Oh yeah, it took a while to get the pool ready. 

Coco: It took a while to get the pool ready, then it was a bit too hot. 

And so it actually slowed down the baby's heart. So we had to get you out. 

Sheyda: Is that the part that made you feel nervous? 

Coco: I never felt nervous because I felt like everybody was in control. So I think again, it's back to how I've surrounded myself with people we know and people who are professional.

So maybe like in hindsight, it was scary, but I was like, Oh, I guess they know what they're doing. 

Sheyda: Yeah. We had a birth pool that we were going to set up and I was hoping, I love water, so I was hoping I could use that as a coping mechanism. And that's another thing that, you're like, Oh, the doula is coming, the doula is coming. That's like a little piece of hope. And then, Oh, when's the pool ready? When's the pool ready? A little piece of hope, like something will change, something to just the mood. But I got into the pool, it was too hot. And then pretty soon, Sorayya was saying that she didn't like the details of the baby's heart rate.

And, as a person giving birth, you just, okay, get me out, whatever. You're just like, get me in another position. I don't care. So I remember just like, getting out, and yeah, I didn't get to use it, but in the end it was okay. 

Coco: It was fine. It was just a big pool waiting 

Sheyda: I just was like, I guess I'll get wet, I don't know. I don't really remember details after that, I think. 

Coco: Yeah. All in all, again, it was pretty fast. Your water broke around 11, 12 and Hugo was born at 6:34. Yeah. 

Lisa: The contractions started at 4 AM, right? 

Sheyda: Yeah. The like little ones, yeah. 

Coco: It seems pretty fast overall, like 12 hours, but I don't know. What do I know? 

Lisa: Would Sheyda say the same? 

Sheyda: Yeah, I think it was fast. Cause when my waters broke, I wasn't in any kind of state, like at 12, any kind of desperate state or a lot of pain. I remember afterwards my midwife came and she checked the heart rate and I looked at her and I was like, this just feels like period cramps, why don't people say that? And I would say, yeah, it's like period cramps. And then they just up, up, up, up, up, but that's the sensation. I felt like, oh, this actually isn't that mysterious. 

But yeah, I would say I wasn't really like, needing to actively cope until 2 PM. And then it was around 4 PM where I think I was in transition, like this is horrible. 

So leading up to the birth I had in my mind, it's just a day. It's just one day. And now I'm like, if I do it again, I'll tell myself it's only a few hours of actually being really, really, really hard. The rest of it is okay. And more than manageable.

Lisa: And that's what causes you, I'm guessing, to perceive a 14 hour labor from start to finish as short because I remember you saying that, Coco, in the announcement to the class, and I was like, 14 hours is perceived as short, cool. I think it's because the intense part was short compared to the whole length of labor, is that right? 

Sheyda: Yeah. I just know people that have early labor for days, yeah. 

Coco: Also maybe because for me, I don't count 4am as the start. I count like more 11, 12 

Sheyda: When the waters broke? 

Coco: Which is like when things got intense. And just six hours, maybe the false perception. I was just sleeping at 4 a. m. 

Sheyda: Yeah, I think overall felt short for me too. Yeah. 

Pushing Stage and Baby’s Arrival

Coco: And then, just like seeing the head. It's like seeing just a little part of the head is wild. Like, whoa, something different. And I remember it was a bit hard for you to get the baby out, and you were getting tired, so it was getting, not concerning, but it was like, oh, you're gonna get too tired to get Hugo out. And yeah, it was so intense at the moment, like on so many fronts, mentally, emotionally,the baby's coming.

And one thing we didn't mention is that we didn't know the sex of Hugo before he was born. So like he was a total surprise no matter what, what would arrive. And we didn't know the name. We had prepared names for both, but we didn't know the name and the baby came out and fun fact to me, but I think only 10 or 15 minutes after the baby was born, we decided, Oh, let's check, is it a boy or a girl? And it was just really fun to have this moment where Hugo was on you, and I was just next to you and he was dirty, let's be honest. There were as many fluids as you can think of on this bed, but yeah, it was just a surreal moment. Yeah. 

Sheyda: Yeah, with pushing, I tried to, from what I'd heard or what I read, I tried to breathe through the pushes to try to be gentle with my perineum, but in the end, I also knew that a lot of home births, if they do transfer to the hospital, it's usually cause the parent becomes too tired. And I think I pushed at least an hour and a half, but that's because I was waiting for, I love that I could wait for each contraction, and I could coordinate with the contraction, and I would breathe out of my mouth at the same time. But then at some point, our midwife and Coco were like, he's going the same distance forward and back, and I could tell, I actually had a moment I was like, I'm going to be too tired to push anymore.

And so I did end up tearing quite a bit because I switched to the purple pushing, but once I switched, he came out 2 contractions, the head. And I did, I mean,I like to be very candid about even the hard parts, like I did feel like quite a tear. It was like a snap. And in the moment I didn't care because you also feel the head come out and you're like, thank God that's done.

And then what was really cool is, and Beth took a video of this part, like his head was out and we still got to wait and nobody was talking. We got to wait. Two minutes until I got to wait till the next contraction. And I also could tell that those contractions really help you, if you can work with them, that's better.

So yeah, I got to wait for it. And then, were you holding my foot? Yeah. So I was side-lying and the head finally came out and it was kind of, thank God. And then we waited two minutes and then I could feel the contraction build and go, and then just slid out and so I put him on me and in that moment, I think in the video, I'm like, thank God or something. Thank God that's done. And so yeah, so Hugo is on me. And I wanted to like, be fully present, even to look at what sex he was. So that's also why he was on me in a towel and I just needed to like, pause on what had just happened.

And I guess, I don't know, just recuperate. I don't know what those minutes were like, was it quiet? What? 

Coco: No idea. But yeah. You're just out of this world. What's happened? Yeah. 

Sheyda: But then eventually I was like, let's go look. And then I took a peek and I was like, Oh, it's a boy. 

The Birth Pause

Lisa: And have you read about the birth pause?

Sheyda: No. 

Lisa: Okay. It's a whole thing that people have written about. Yeah. That there's this need to take a breath. And it's also like labor can feel like a long time, and then it feels very sudden for many of us, like the moment that the baby's thrust on our chest or comes to our chest. And we need this, just a moment.

I love that you just brought that up and you hadn't even read it. 

Sheyda: Yeah. I haven't even read about it. Yeah. That's exactly what happened. That's cool. 

Lisa: Maybe I'll send you a link if you'd like. 

Sheyda: Yeah, I would love to read about that. And I think that's another really lovely thing about a home birth is that nothing was rushed and I got to experience all those moments.

Different Pushing Positions

Lisa: Before you move on, can I ask one quick question about pushing? So you said side-lying was the position in which Hugo was born. Given you pushed for a while, did you try different positions? 

Sheyda: The pushing stage, I was up right when it started. And then Sorayya said, maybe get on the bed.

And so I had 1 foot, against, and that's a good point, maybe like next time around, because I did tear quite badly. And that was my postpartum pain point. But I had 1 foot against the bed and pushing against Sorayya, and then my other leg was up and pushing against Coco.

And I think sometimes the assistant, sometimes you were holding that leg. So I feel like my hips had room to move, but yeah, I don't know. But it was a very empowering moment, once we switched and it felt like this baby needs to come out now. I remember like the contraction would come and I would push, push, push, push, push.

And I really was like, I can't push anymore. And I still dig and push more. And I, that was something that really stuck with me, immediately after giving birth, that dig deep, I've never had to dig that deep before, not in any workout, not in anything did I have to dig that deep.

And it just felt like, you just feel like Superwoman after giving birth. Cause you are like, just don't realize what you're capable of. And then you're like, what? And then you're like, so many people do this. Like, why is this not celebrated? 

Lisa: Totally. Right there with you.

Yeah. So anyway, you were going to go on, after birth. 

Hemorrhage Complication

Sheyda: Which is like kind of immediate postpartum. So Hugo was on my chest and I think we tried to let him do the breast crawl, but part of the complication is that I started hemorrhaging. And so like Sorayya was going through all the different things to give me, and I think it was-- 

Lisa: Do you remember if it was Pitocin or Cytotec or what? And it's okay if you don't. 

Sheyda: Yeah. Did she give me a shot? I mean I also had the IV, like the Hep-Lock already in, which was good. She gave me like Shepherd's Purse, she gave, I think there was a suppository. 

Lisa: Yeah. Uh huh. 

Sheyda: Yeah. and I think Pitocin. I just don't remember how. 

Lisa: A shot would be Pitocin, suppository, probably Cytotec.

Sheyda: Yeah, I don't remember. But it wasn't stopping, but you said that it didn't look like a lot, but it just wasn't stopping. 

Coco: Yeah. And it's, again, like what I said before, like on the outside, it may be really scary, like she was hemorrhaging, but I just felt everything was in control, nobody was worried. 

Sheyda: I also knew that's like a common thing midwives are ready for so it wasn't like– 

Coco: Yes, but you still ended up at the hospital afterwards, so. 

Sheyda: I chose to. 

Coco: Yeah, of course. 

Sheyda: I chose to. 

Coco: But yeah, it just, everything just felt in control. 

Sheyda: Yeah. I also, I could tell I was feeling weak and I'm pretty sensitive to how my body feels, so I was more like just saying, Hey, I still don't feel good. Hey, I still don't feel good. That's just how I am. I just can start communicating a lot if I don't feel well. So for all the things to do, and then eventually there was a medication through the IV that she gave me that stopped it.

And then another hard point, so the whole time she was going through to stop the hemorrhage, I knew, I was like, everyone here's gonna take care of it. There's nothing for me to do. But I remember feeling there's nothing for me to do, but rest. But she also had, this was actually really painful, and something I didn't know about, but she went through my cervix. So this is the first and like only time she ever went into my cervix, but she got the blood clots out and that was like, that was horrible. And I did yell a lot for it. And I feel like that's one of my more traumatic pieces of the birth. 

Coco: Yeah, it is. For me, from the outside, it looked not good. Yeah. 

Sheyda: But, and I remember also feeling like I'm getting too tired. Like Hugo hadn't latched yet, so then they let him like, we did side-lying, but we had several hours at home before I decided to go to the hospital. 

Coco: Yeah, I think we went to the hospital around 9:30, so it's about three hours between the moment he was born and the time he went to the hospital.

Decision to Transfer to Hospital

Sheyda: Yeah, I think because I lost blood and I felt so lightheaded, I explain it as I think that's probably where I got out of my comfort zone. So I didn't need to go to the hospital, but I think Sorayya heard me, I kept talking about how I was feeling, even though the hemorrhage had ended.

And so she's like, well, if you want, you can go to the hospital and maybe they would give you blood. And if they gave you blood, you'd feel better sooner. Or you'll feel better in about two weeks. And so at that time I just said, okay, I want to go to the hospital. And I think that's the good thing about the home birth or midwife model is that you can use the hospital if you need it. And because I tore quite a lot, it was good that I went to the hospital because they did the stitches there. And I think, home birth midwives are ready to do stitches, but I think that degree was better in the hospital.

And that was a wonderful part of having a doula and a home birth midwife because they really took care of us during that period, as well. 

Coco: But even before going to the hospital, I remember, so like the ambulance came, but also the fire department, 

Sheyda: All these people were in these tiny apartments, 

Lisa: A little bit like overkill, maybe? 

Coco: I don't know why the fire department showed up. And I remember, they were so out of touch with what was happening. I remember 

Sheyda: A bunch of big firefighter dudes coming in and 

Coco: They were like talking about Oh, how much is the apartment? How much is the rent here? And they were like, yeah, I don't know what they were doing here.

And the ambulance came and apparently the guy from the ambulance was really hot. 

Sheyda: Oh yeah. Me and Beth talked later about, oh, the hot one. They like, oh yeah. We both had the thought of I remember thinking, oh my God, I do not look good right now. 

Lisa: That is hilarious. 

Sheyda: Yeah. Yeah. But there were two that were really kind, that more dealt with things.

Coco: I think the ambulance people were good. Yeah. Like the firefighters, they were here, but I don't know what for. 

Sheyda: They were here, they didn't know what they were there for.

Lisa: To find out the rent. 

Coco: Yeah, it's crazy because like, all of this happened, you went to the hospital, but I stayed home because, at first they wanted to bring Hugo with Sheyda to the hospital. Yeah. And Sorayya was amazing here. Like she really fought hard. She's like, the baby's not going, baby's healthy, the baby's in perfect condition. He's not going, he's not going, he's not going. And I had to sign a bunch of waivers. God knows what I signed in this moment.

Yeah, after that, the dust settled and I was home with this newborn that was like four hours old. And Sheyda was at the hospital and Sorayya was with me and we're like trying to, because in the meantime before she was getting your, 

Sheyda: Yeah. Can I come in about this part? 

Coco: Yeah. 

Hospital Stay and Continued Midwife/Doula Care

Sheyda: Yeah. So Sorayya initially was in the ambulance with me and which was awesome because she could be my advocate because it's true, after you give birth, you just, all of this part was hard for me because I remember after I pushed him out, I just wanted to close my legs, turn to my side, and go to sleep and I couldn't do that. We had the blood clots, we had the hemorrhage and then I was in an ambulance. I also remember I couldn't pee and I kept telling her, I just had no coordination and I had to, and I couldn't, I think at some point I got a catheter, but I had Sorayya with me to be my voice in that state.

And, so she came to the hospital with me and she got me set up there. And then eventually somebody came in and started giving me stitches. And during that time, what was great about her and Beth, our doula, was that they already all knew to hand express the colostrum. They didn't even really talk to me about it. They were just doing it and they're just collecting and collecting it. And it just felt good to just have all these people taking care of us. I went to the hospital, actually, before I even went, at some point, I was like, Beth, can you hold the baby?

Cause I just couldn't hold him, even. And just to have people that you know they're just going to take care of your baby or you. And then I left the baby with Coco and Beth, so I felt fine. Then Beth met me and it was really good because, another emotional piece is when they wanted to do the stitches, they wanted my legs back open.

They wanted to numb it and all this stuff. And I did not want to do it. And I was shaking and I was crying and I was crying. And the OB was like, I'll let you regroup with your team. And Sorayya and Beth came with me and they said, maybe you could play music. And Beth was like, okay, what do you want to listen to? And I was like, I don't care. And Beth's really good with music, she played something, and yeah. So it's just, I had Beth and Sorayya with me in a really hard time, which was just that time at the hospital, like midnight, getting stitches. And I kind of joke, but it's also a good part of their care, as I was getting the stitches, they were each, they had a breast and they were expressing the colostrum and then after that, Sorayya did go home to bring it to Coco and Hugo, and Beth stayed with me. 

Coco: Yeah, because I, again, us being not prepared, we had nothing to feed that kid. 

Sheyda: Yeah, yeah, because I was gonna breastfeed. 

Coco: Yeah, like we're expecting to breastfeed.

So I was home and I had nothing for him. So luckily we had the colostrum. And then like in the middle of the night, I still had nothing. So I had to wait and it's a whole other story. But it was an awesome moment for me to be home alone with him. Like it was kind of scary, but it was just a moment I will never forget. 

Sheyda: Yeah. 

Coco: Sleeping next to him. And I remember-- 

Sheyda: And not sleeping. 

Coco: Well, I did sleep two hours, but I also remember it was the first cold day of the season, and the heat was not on, because we don't control the heat, and I remember freezing in bed, because I didn't have the cover, because I can't put the cover, because there's a baby. All these things. 

So I was like, in my jacket, slept for about two hours and then I was like, okay, he needs to eat again. 

Sheyda: Yeah. And Beth was good. She stayed with me and she periodically kept expressing the colostrum because once I got to the hospital, I had two IVs in and no one would tell me what was going in and then nobody would stop and just look at me and explain to me why I was still there, once I got the stitches. 

They already said, you didn't qualify to get blood. So I expected to leave. I had some high blood pressure readings. But Beth was like, that's only happening when they walk in, like when you're just resting and everyone's leaving you alone, there's none and 

It was a hard time. But yeah, Beth was there and yeah, she was good about, she kept expressing the colostrum and eventually at the hospital they said, your baby could come here if your husband watches him. We don't admit him. And I was like, yes, please. Like I, it took time to leave, we ended up leaving the next evening. But, 

Coco: Yeah. 

Sheyda: You met me with Hugo and. 

Lisa: Yeah. You were there like 24 hours or less? 

Sheyda: Less, yeah. 

Coco: About 18 hours, something like that. 

Lisa: Okay. 

Sheyda: And yeah, and the stitches were really good. But then after that, it just, I felt frustrated, like stuck. Cause you also have to wait for them to come and then whatever physician was there, they change.

And then a new person is talking to you. And because I lost so much blood, it was hard for me to really keep track of what people were telling me. But I remember, around noon the next day, something did switch and suddenly I could start advocating for myself and I did force people to tell me exactly why am I still here? And what's the plan? Like, how long do you want me to be here? But it took time. It took time to be able to do it, and then I could do it. But that was frustrating, But then we went home. 

Lisa: Had to regain your strength a bit. Yeah, after all that. 

Sheyda: Yeah, I think so. And I had my midwife, Sorayya, was probably resting by that point. So I got to talk to Chloe on the phone, and I already had a blood pressure cuff, so she said, you can go home cause we'll keep taking it, and we kept taking my blood pressure once I got home. We kept texting her what they were. Like I always was safe with them, they're always like tracking everything. I just had a lot more freedom under their care, I think, than maybe another situation. 

Pelvic Floor PT and Postpartum Experience

Lisa: Where do you want to go from here? I think you wanted to talk a little bit about your pelvic health and healing a little bit? 

Sheyda: That kind of cracks me up because when I was getting my stitches and once the morphine kicked in, and Beth had the music playing, they even turned the lights down, which was really nice because it was like, yeah, 2 a. m. I looked at Beth and I was like, I'm definitely going to pelvic floor PT after this. She was like, oh, yeah. But the person stitching me was like, what's that? And I feel like that's such a big deal. Like, how did they not, you're stitching these perineums and you don't know what pelvic floor PT is, which is what you're going to need after that? So that really frustrates me. So I'm glad that I already knew about it. And and so-- 

Lisa: I harp on it in class because I think everyone with OBs aren't told. Yeah. 

Sheyda: Yeah. And luckily, I knew I wanted to see one, but then postpartum hits and you're taking care of this baby and you forget. But there was one point where I knew things weren't right, and I talked to my midwives and they told me to go see one. So it reminded me. And so I saw 2 PTs at Northwell Health in Astoria, Abby and Mary, and they are really good. And I actually feel like their care was similar in a way to my midwives. I showed up and I didn't get naked right away, they talked to me about what I was doing. I actually feel like they probably deal with a lot of postpartum birth processing and I cried many times to them in our sessions.

And also it feels good, from the first appointment, I told them my symptoms and they knew what was happening, that's good. You're like, okay, this is common and they know what to do about it. Yeah, I think even if you think maybe things are probably fine, just even if you can get evaluated once it's really good.

Lisa: And that's one of the few practices in our city and our area that is in network with quite a few plans. Was it in network for you? Yeah, that's so nice because it's so hard to find that in our city. I'm glad you found that support and they are listed on my website. I will also list them in the show notes for this episode, as well as your team.

Sheyda: They're very helpful. And they, yeah, they saw a lot of tears, but yeah, that's, I think that is a very important piece.

Lisa: Do you remember how many weeks postpartum you were when you decided to seek that out? 

Sheyda: I was probably like three or four months, which was too bad because that's also when I went to work.

And that was one of my stressor points was being back at work and pumping and then having to go weekly to that. It was another pain point for me. Postpartum was actually back to work time more so than the first week of being with your newborn was amazing. Coco fed me and hydrated me, and I just got to like marvel.

You just marvel at what you just made. And you're like, I can't believe I did this. And you're like, look at this most perfect face, this most perfect being, and they just are on you and all they need is just to be on you. And, the nursing part, sometimes you're like trying to get the latch and that can be frustrating when they're really small, but overall, I think the early days were really lovely. But I think once you try to integrate the old life with the new life, that was more hard for me. 

I did want to mention there was actually one thing I reuse a lot from your class. You have a tea recipe, an infusion recipe, in part of your resources. And I drank that every day during my third trimester. And even though I hemorrhaged, apparently, my iron levels were pretty great. Yeah, because I drank that tea every day.

Lisa: Oh, that's so cool. 

Sheyda: Yeah, Coco had it like on loop. He was like a pro at infusing it for like weeks postpartum as I was breastfeeding, I was still drinking it. 

Lisa: I love hearing that. I love that. Yeah. 

Sheyda: There was like a recipe. It had nettle, red raspberry leaf, like rosebuds, oat straw, I don't remember what else, but yeah, it has all those things. So I bought all of those ingredients and I learned about infusion is like you have it in the hot water for four plus hours. So we just had that on loop. Coco was just always making it for me.

Yeah. I think that was good for me. 

Lisa: Nice. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. 

And Coco, any reflections on your end in terms of becoming a dad and just what settling into that new and improved identity has felt like, or even just initial how you were feeling, how you were doing. 

Partner’s Reflections on Becoming a Father

Coco: Yeah. I think the first 30 days, my take on it was like, it was important to just be the two of us, even though there are a lot of things that need to be done and need to be taken care of. If anyone can, take that moment for yourself, especially for your first, I think for your first child, because it only happened once, that you're just the two of us and this newborn.

And it's just an interesting moment where you do nothing if you can afford to do nothing. And you just take care of this person. And I was taking care of Sheyda to be honest. But it was a good moment for that. And may sound harsh, but I'm glad my family was not here for this.

I'm glad it was just a moment for the two of us to make sure we would share this between the two of us. And it's actually a tip that I gave a friend and he's like, Oh, yeah, man, I'm glad you told me this because her parents were ready to come or things like that. And it's like this, the first 30 days, they're so unique and it's nothing you can ever do, recreate, or think about.

And it's like this moment of bliss where nothing matters except your little one. And yeah, it's just impossible in today's day and age to have this moment. Nothing matters and it's awesome. So 

Sheyda: True pause. And it's a time to integrate what just happened with the people that were there, which was us three.

Coco: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

Sheyda: And we saw Beth and our midwives. 

Coco: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's a moment where you just do things. And you don't think,it feels good to not think. 

Sheyda: You're just brewing tea, making food, taking plates, changing diapers. 

Coco: Yeah, people are like, yeah, diapers are awful, it's just a task at the end of the day.

And I think it's just a 30 second, like two minutes at first, and then it gets better. It's just a task and you see this little thing like growing and you're like, wow, this is crazy. So yeah, about being a dad, I felt, maybe we should have mentioned this at the very beginning, but we are both in our mid thirties and being together, like close to 10 years by the time we had Hugo, we just felt ready.

And he was not a surprise when we learned about it. It was not a surprise when it happened because I think we had lived our life without a kid before and we're ready for the next phase. So I think for me, becoming a dad has not been that different because I just felt I was ready.

And ultimately that was a good part of it. I don't regret my old life, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything. It's just, yeah. 

Lisa: Yeah. Thank you for sharing all the details of that because everyone's experience is so different and many pregnancies are unexpected, unplanned, and that can absolutely affect how it feels to become a parent and that whole journey.

Dad’s Experience With Mom in the Hospital

I'm curious about, it's unusual, Coco, the fact that you were with your son, you were the primary caregiver for those first, or almost a day. Do you feel like it really helped you bond with him or was it overshadowed by the concern, for your beloved, for Sheyda, or what are your thoughts on that? 

Coco: Yeah. I'm so sorry, but I did not care about Sheyda at this moment. 

Sheyda: You knew I was, you knew I was fine. 

Coco: Again. Yeah. She was like in the hands of the right people. She was with somebody I trusted. So I just, yeah, I didn't feel any concern. I really didn't think about anything except taking care of Hugo.

Lisa: Cause you had to, out of necessity. Yeah. What's right in front of you. Who's right in front of you. 

Coco: And I know many people told me after, like, weren't you concerned? Did you know what to do? Absolutely not. I had no clue what I was doing or what to do, but you just figure it out, to be honest. And that's the story of becoming a parent.

It's just, you figure sh*t out. 

Lisa: There's a mantra: you figure sh*t out. Yeah. 

Coco: I think, I don't know if it created something between him and I, I doubt so, but I felt a special moment, especially as the dad and as the, now I see it that he's much more about Sheyda and he wants mom because mom feeds him, mom has the breast milk that is so delicious.

And, sometimes I'm like, what about me? So it's nice that I have this moment. And, I will forever remember it, especially like this moment at 5 a. m. where there is no colostrum in sight because I used it all at 4 a. m. and I still need to feed him at 6 a. m. So I scramble to call two friends that live around and one of them manages to pick up and go through five different pharmacies to find some formula for me. He just comes and he sees me with my newborn, it's like, what is happening, what is this life that you're in. It's just, yeah, it's such a cool moment, and one thing also is that somebody, who was this person that came?

Sheyda: Beth actually contacted an old client living in the neighborhood who had breast milk and she brought some to you. Yeah. In the freezer. Yeah. 

Lisa: That's so great. Cause I was thinking like, it feels like it would have been impossible, given the baby has to feed every two to three hours and you're over at the hospital, to be able to express everything that the baby needed and constantly be running back and forth.

Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for answering that question. I had. 

Coco: Yeah, so Beth actually reached out to one of her former clients and this person, I think, her son was like around one year old, something on all those lines. And she came and it was so nice. I remember it was 9 AM. I looked like probably nothing.

I had taken a shower because a friend who has two kids was like, just take a shower, I'll take care of your son. Like I've done this before. I know how to do it. And then she came and she handed me this bag and she's like, I made a little chili for you. I was like, so nice. This is so nice. And yeah, she gave us obviously the bag of milk.

So yeah, it's just those moments early on. I was like, I don't know what to do. Don't know what's going to happen, but you just do it. 

Sheyda: All those little moments of care just mean a lot. 

Coco: Yeah, it does. And we never heard about this woman ever again. And 

Sheyda: But a lot of the things that make me sentimental thinking about his birthday are the little things that like Beth or Sorayya did for us or that you did for me, or you did for Hugo.

Yeah. Any of those things are just really meaningful in that, Yeah. 

Decision to Become a Postpartum Doula

Lisa: Did you want to talk at all about how you decided to become a postpartum doula? 

Sheyda: Yeah. So one thing that I really liked from working with my home birth midwives is the, so Sorayya's at the birth, then Chloe came on like day 2, 3, basically I came home from the hospital the next day she was there and she like, checked on the latch and checked on me. And,I know a lot of people don't have that. I did a lactation training over the summer. So that's 1 piece of care that I think everyone should get is somebody in their home, checking on them, checking on the baby, checking on how the feeding is going, but just going to you, instead of somebody who just gave birth having to go to somebody's office. So I really loved that. And then, yeah, it was hard for me when I went back to work full time, four months postpartum.And during that time, I really didn't want, I didn't want to hire a nanny, but I didn't want Hugo to go to daycare, like five days a week at four months, that felt really abrupt and intense to me to be that separated. 

So I had a lot of feelings around this. I remember at the time I felt like either Hugo and I were together, but we're isolated or we're out in the world, but we're separate. And that was really painful. So I tried to find ways to make it work. So he went to daycare three days a week when I was in the office, and then on Thursdays I was working from home, and I ended up working with one of your other doulas, Emi, she came to watch Hugo while I was working, and so that was really nice. And then on Fridays, we both worked from home and juggled Hugo care. So I tried to find a way to have him experience daycare, but try to minimize that separation in some way.

And yeah, I got to talk to Emi a lot about my birth. I talked to her about it like every week that she came, I was talking about my birth or I was talking about how I felt about going back to work. And she really came into my life at the perfect time and really supported me.

And because I was already like a birth nerd later, and then I just had so many, I just felt all the like emotional care, that I needed after I gave birth and I was adjusting to this new identity as a parent, like the first few weeks are really magical, but after that it can feel like a grind, especially when your partner goes back to work, people forget about you.

Everyone's at work and then you're like alone with the baby. Sometimes it's hard to get out the door because maybe you're ready, but then pooped again and you have to start over, it's just like a lot and I, in going through that and then going through transitioning back to work, trying to pump back at work and all my conversations with Emi, it made me feel like I would love to actually be a part of this society in a different way instead of being at the office, I'd like to be able to support people like through this transitional period. And I do think it's a period where people are really open too, I think new parents, babies are really open and the new parents are really open and, Yeah, I think it's a great time to help people integrate their story, integrate their birth story, realize, what parenting feels like to them, what it means to them. 

And I've always been somebody who, as my therapist says, likes the heavy, deep and real conversations, and, I feel like as a postpartum doula, you get to work with people one on one in kind of a sensitive, but private, quiet way and space.

So yeah, that I started in the summer when, I guess I was like six or seven months postpartum, I started doing lactation training. And then, in the fall I started a postpartum training, doula training. And so it's just something that I look forward to developing in the years to come.

Lisa: Great. And I'll check with you when I follow up after we meet, but I'm happy to paste the details of your training organizations. Cause I know and respect both of those, if you'd like. If you'd like me to share that. 

Sheyda: Yeah, definitely. 

Lisa: Great. And I'm excited to just support, follow your journey into postpartum work and so excited that you have felt that leading, that calling, and I look forward to supporting it however I can. Whatever that might look like. Yeah. 

Sheyda: Yeah. We got so much great care information from your class and from yeah, all your doulas. I also, I didn't mention, but I did the postpartum support group with Sarah Grace and Christine and,I can't remember.

Lisa: Is it Shirin? I'm not sure who it is. It's changed over time. 

Sheyda: Yeah, them three. And that's another thing besides pelvic floor PT. I think a postpartum support group is incredible to be in, because like I said, everyone kind of moves on. Everyone has their daily lives and your life is drastically changed.

And so if you can, have other people that you're talking to going through at the same time. I think it's a game changer.

Lisa: Absolutely. 

Closing Thoughts and Final Advice

Also, is there anything that you haven't gotten to share, either one of you, that you'd like to share before we wrap things up? Or is there any final theme or tip that you'd like to leave expectant or new parents with and it can be just reinforcing something you've already said, or it can be new.

Sheyda: Going back to what Coco said about having, you get this very peaceful moment as a family of 3, if you keep to yourselves a bit, that's really lovely. I ended up, when Hugo was like six weeks old, we went down to visit my parents for Thanksgiving. And I remember at that point, like kind of mentioned that it can feel like a grind eventually as the weeks progress.

So many diapers changing, so many feeds that like, they're still fetuses, but they're on the outside. You have to do everything for them. And after a few weeks, that is a lovely time to start bringing in other people because yeah, you're going to want a break. But also I was ready to see my family marvel over him and yeah, you're just really starting to be ready.

You just want to show off and share and also have your baby start bonding with other people. so it's just, it's nice to have a bit of a pause, even if it's just a few days, I think, but then you will want, you eventually want everyone to like, see how special your baby is. 

Lisa: Yeah. And I just add to that, when we go over postpartum wellness and thinking about different timing, points in time, in the early weeks and months, that people might want to think about support. That's why I say that for many couples, when it's a couple giving birth, many couples are like both home for at least a while or a little bit or maybe more than a little bit and many people might feel like that's less of an important time to have another person around to help, whereas if and when somebody, one of the people is leaving, or is going to be unavailable to help with a lot of the caregiving to tag team, that might be a more important time. And part of my thinking with that is exactly what you're sharing today.

I'm so glad you were sharing that, that it's just so beautiful to just find your footing initially as the new family unit and have that initial bonding in a less disruptive way. But there's no right or wrong for any family, it's just one of many things to think about in terms of timing of bringing people in, whether that's visitors or helpers and hopefully the visitors are helping.

But yeah, thanks for letting me add that. 

Sheyda: Yeah. Yeah. And I do remember in your class, you mentioned clearly a good time to think about getting the support is when your partner goes back to work. And I would agree with that for sure.

Lisa: Coco, is there anything, any final things you wanted to share? 

Coco: I guess it's that one, allow yourself to not know what's going to happen and just go with the flow and the journey. And I think this is especially true for after birth and yeah, create your own team, either like professionals, but also friends on our end, like we had friends who made a lot of soups and stuff to reheat. And that was so nice to not have to think about cooking for the first few weeks.So yeah, just, find your team and surround yourself with the people who care about you and can help you. And as you say, if you have visitors, they must be helpers. They cannot just be visitors. And I think that's key.

Lisa: Thank you so much. It's so good to see you again. It's great to see you and hear all of these details, more than just the paragraph or two that I had heard. 

Sheyda: Yeah, thanks a lot for letting us share it.

Coco: Yeah, I wanted to add, one thing we're sad about is, we didn't see all the updates of all the babies that were in our class. And we're a bit sad not to know,because people just didn't reply at all. 

Lisa: Yeah, I always hope everybody will. Some groups, every single couple does. And then other groups, it's more haphazard. It just depends. 

Coco: Yeah, it was weird, I think. We only saw one or two. 

Sheyda: Two or three, I thought. I saw a few. 

Coco: But I was like, Oh, I wish I had known the names and stuff. 

Sheyda: Yeah. You want to know what happened, you want to know, what baby came out. 

Coco: Yeah. I remember one was the one that was much further advanced in their pregnancy.

And the second one I remember was called Paul, but yeah. Yeah. We only had two. 

Sheyda: Yeah. 

Lisa: Here's an idea, you could encourage, in May, we'll be having our next reunion and you could always encourage, go back to that email and say, Hey, we missed hearing from some of you, let's all meet up in Astoria Park.

That's my suggestion. 

Sheyda: Yeah. That's a good idea. It would be funny to see them and see all these toddlers running around. 

Lisa: It would be fun. And sometimes we do have people coming more than a year after they've given birth and it's always so much fun. 

Sheyda: Yeah, that's fun. 

Lisa: All right. Well, thanks again. Appreciate it. Have a good one. 

Sheyda: Yeah. Thank you. Bye.