Bettina prides herself on being a thorough researcher. She carries that into pregnancy and interviews 6 doulas before choosing one, switches from an OB to midwifery care when she doesn’t feel aligned, gets prenatal breastfeeding support due to having inverted nipples, and more. At the end of pregnancy, talk of induction arises due to concerns of fetal growth restriction due to baby measuring small. Knowing that she and her partner are healthy but fairly petite people, she trusts her baby is healthy, advocates for more time, even signing an Against Medical Advice form to not be induced at 39 weeks, and meanwhile tries all the natural induction techniques. Her proactive measures pay off and help her have a respectful, well-supported, unmedicated hospital birth. Bettina also shares some about the breastfeeding challenges she faced and the expert support she received from both lactation consultants and a chiropractor who specializes in the Webster technique for newborns.
Resources:
East River Doula Collective - doula Simone
City Lactation (Annie & Kara)
Dr. Louis Vella, D.C., C.C.N., D.A.C.B.N. (Astoria), 718-726-5454 - Gentle family chiropractic with prenatal & newborn specialty, Webster-certified
“Breathable Moment” FKAJazz (song on Spotify)
Sponsor links:
Free “Pack for Your Best Birth” Packing List (with free mini-course option)
East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
Gave birth ~3 months before recording
Conceived fairly easily
Pregnancy was challenging, in a dark place esp. in 1st trimester
Watched The Business of Being Born and started doing a lot of research
Came to East River Doula Collective’s Meet the Doulas
Seeking out a full spectrum doula, hired doula through ERDC - Simone Junious
Has inverted nipples, so was concerned about breastfeeding and scheduled prenatal
Pelvic PT made sense to her - went to Spear PT because they took insurance
Online hypnobirthing class
Choosing a doula, interviewing six
Deciding to switch from OB to midwife
Concerns about IUGR (intrauterine growth restriction)
They recommend induction, but instead they agree to 3x/week monitoring
Doula Simone advises them to ask about what happens after the birth with baby if baby’s small
Started trying all the natural induction techniques
Signed an AMA at 39 weeks to not be induced, OB mentions stillbirth many times
Goes into labor the next day with contractions 7am, gets gluten-free pizza
Simone comes to join around noon, positions on couch
5pm - they go to the hospital, get there by 6pm
Barely able to speak in triage
2 min frequency with almost 1 min contractions / 80% effaced, 2cm dilated
Walking around halls while wearing mask
When shift changed, everything changed. Favorite midwife came in
Moving around lots, aromatherapy, peanut ball
Wanted nitrous oxide
Water hadn’t broken
Listening to her partner Samir’s music - one specific song
Aromatherapy was also really important to her
Nurse had been a doula and is training to become a midwife and used to work for Samir, and Simone knew her, too
Tons of back labor, they decide baby is posterior (“sunny side up”)
Got into exaggerated side-lying/lunge position with peanut ball
Baby rotated and suddenly is in transition
She asks doula to ask them to break her water
Her water ruptures spontaneously before they can do it artificially
Pushed for 29 minutes, sac prevented baby from coming
Pushed on hands and knees and then on side
It was very empowering
Felt such a relief
Did skin to skin; Samir cut cord
Delayed the cord clamping a little bit, but not as much as they wanted
The midwives were respectful of her birth preferences, but then the pediatrician and his team was hovering due to the concern about the size of the baby and blood sugar
They told them they needed to supplement to raise baby’s blood sugar; they brought their own formula
Got early discharge with baby
Met with Annie & Kara for feeding support - Annie suggests baby might have a tongue tie / oral restriction, so they get the frenectomy
Wasn’t making enough milk, Annie provided non-judgmental support in pumping and increasing milk supply and helping support baby Eshe with sucking skills
Started working with Dr. Vella doing bodywork on baby and things slowly started improving
Tried different kinds of bottles
Didn’t ever produce enough milk for baby
Feeling like she was too emotionally invested in the whole feeding
Explaining Dr. Vella’s chiropractic work on baby
Strength in fluidity and adaptability reflected in the mythic story of Inanna
The need for community
Interview Transcript
Bettina: Hi everyone. My name's Bettina. Very honored to be here. I'm an Astoria native, been here for close to 15 years. Astoria has changed a lot since I moved here. and I gave birth about almost three months ago now, to a beautiful baby boy. about, I would say a couple days before my due date. And, so I've been postpartum for, yeah, about three months.
So, here we are.
Conception Journey
Lisa: Well, why don't we get started with just sharing anything you'd like to share about your conception journey and/or your prenatal journey and the different ways you prepared for becoming a parent?
Bettina: Yeah, sure. I mean, I wanna start by saying that, I'm extremely grateful that from a conception point of view, there wasn't too many hiccups.
We were able to do it naturally took a little longer than we thought, but at the end of the day, there was no real difficulty to do it naturally. And I wanna really acknowledge that could be a whole other journey for lots of people. So I feel very grateful for that. And then once I was pregnant, I would say pregnancy wasn't very cool for me.
Like I was not like a happy pregnant person. Not to say I was like very unhappy, but it was a difficult time mentally. And that kind of hit me completely from left field cuz I, everyone knows about postpartum depression and all of that. I don't think I was, I don't think I wanna use the word depressed for my state of mind, but I definitely had an altered darker state of mind throughout, mainly the first trimester I would say.
And a lot of the things that I liked to do, I didn't like anymore, like eating and socializing and spending time with people. Like I just wanted to be alone. And I was very emotional, so that was really out of the blue and not something I could have ever prepared for. Just like to be in a different mental state I think is hard.
So that was the start of it. But things do get better. Yeah. And things did get better. And I think by the second trimester, I was more of my usual self.
Researching for Best Options
Bettina: Like I'm very I think similar to you, Lisa, I'm like organized. Let's like try to do as much research as possible. Find out all my options, educate myself the best way possible. I read so many books. I literally combed every corner of your website, Lisa. I know all those resources.
Lisa: Thank you because I spend so much time on it all the time and I'm like, does anybody ever look at all this stuff?
Bettina: I was even down to the districts and the areas that you live in for what providers and what's insurance friendly. That's how I found my pelvic floor PT. Like, everything was very comprehensive. Like you beat Google, many times.
Lisa: Yay.
Bettina: So yeah.
Lisa: That's a big one.
Bettina: Yeah, no, I was very grateful for that, and the very first thing, I think the thing that kind of triggered all of this research was we watched that documentary, the Business of Being Born. And then both my partner and I were like, oh my goodness, what are we getting ourselves into ? This is what it is. Even though it's like old in terms of the stats and everything, a lot of the information is still very relevant.
And I had not really thought about my provider team, I would say, before watching that documentary, like in terms of whether or not I wanted a doula, whether or not I wanted to give birth in a hospital, I didn't even think about that as an option. But after seeing that and like it wasn't so much oh, for sure I wanna have a home birth.
It was more like, oh, okay, I really need to look into my options, and really think deeply about that. And thankfully I was like more myself, so I really did more research, and did as much as I could, given the time I had with my job and everything. But yeah, like one of the most important steps I think I took was, I think I just Googled doulas in Astoria or something.
And that's how I found you and your collective. And I signed up for the, I forget what it's called, but it's like speed dating with doulas on Zoom.
Lisa: Meet the Doulas. Yep.
Bettina: There you go. That was great. Oh, I actually have a, now a really close friend through that meetup. Jenna, she was someone who was like, had the same due date and Eshe ended up being born on her daughter's due date, which is funny.
Lisa: Oh wow.
Bettina: She went to your class too, but like earlier on and that was like the start of like, okay, this is like the beginning of us taking control of our situation. Asking some questions. With Simone, when I read, I think you have this whole thing about what is the difference between full-spectrum, postpartum, or birth doula. And so before we even started interviewing people during that meet and greet, we knew we wanted a full spectrum. Because neither of us has family around, and we felt like we really wanted one person to be that kind of full line of support.
And then, thinking through if we wanted like a pair of doulas or a single doula, like there were a lot of different questions, but I think that was the trigger of like, okay, these are the things that we wanna really start thinking about. So Simone was the first step, and to this day we still think that's one of the most important decisions and investments we made ever about this whole journey. And yeah, obviously I signed up for your class, which was great. For me, the most important thing about your class was that feeling of community. A lot of the information was good and I was able to read back on it, before I gave birth, but I think just being there in the space with all these other people in similar shoes, and feeling that community, I think that's one of the most valuable things I took out of your class, other than the great resources. And the PowerPoint, I literally studied your PowerPoint, like I was gonna have an exam on it.
But yeah, that was really good. And then, yeah, I had, near the end of my pregnancy, I think I was reading a few more books and in the back of my mind I had been like, breastfeeding probably isn't gonna work. In the back, like far back of my mind. For some reason I was just like, I don't think this is gonna work for me.
So I probably just psyched myself out a little. I have inverted nipples, so I knew that. I didn't even realize that was a thing until Simone told me that and I was like, oh, okay. That's a thing. That might make it harder. But after your class, or after I read your notes, there was something about Aetna having six free lactation consultant sessions.
I was like, oh. I may as well, right? So I did a prenatal one with Kara, who works with Annie. And she was great.
Pelvic Floor PT and Hypnobirthing
Bettina: And then the last two things I did, I think that were helpful was, I found a pelvic floor PT. For me as an athlete, I was just very much like, oh, duh. If I'm gonna train for labor, I've done PT like almost all my life because I've injured almost everything you can injure throughout my life.
So PT for me is very normalized in my brain.
Lisa: Ah.
Bettina: So I was like, oh, there's this mysterious muscle or muscles,
Lisa: A set of muscles, yeah.
Bettina: That I've never heard about. I literally, you have a section on your website where you have podcasts, I think. I listened to all the podcasts about pelvic floor stuff. We had a little babymoon to Beacon. We went to Beacon and on my way I listened to all the podcasts and back I listened to all the other podcasts.
Lisa: Road trips are great for that, right?
Bettina: Yeah. So Lindsay Vestal.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Bettina: Like a few of the ones that you had listed on your website. And I was just really fascinated. I was like, I had no idea. Like diastasis recti, all of these things that were more physical I didn't think about. And so I went through a few sessions with Spear, because they took insurance. That was the only one I could find who took insurance.
Lisa: Yeah.
Bettina: And also an online hypnobirthing class was one of the last things I did, which I think was also really helpful cuz I was like, I need to like mentally prepare as well. When you prepare, I've been a runner, so like when you prepare for a race, you gotta physically prepare and mentally prepare.
So yeah, I think I did as much as I possibly can.
Lisa: You sure did. I love it.
Importance of Knowledge
Bettina: But yeah, like everything just goes the way it's supposed to go. Like regardless of how much or how little you prepare. So I think at the end of the day, the most important thing was more the process of going through it than getting all of these things or nuggets of knowledge. The process was important.
And number two, building the people around me was the most important, at the end of the day. And that was what brought me or has helped me through postpartum. Just having that specific people like Simone, like Kara Annie, like Dr. Vella as a source of support, because for us, who don't have family, immediately around us, I mean, now my mom's here, so it's helpful, but through the birth experience and beyond, when you're like very vulnerable, I think those are the two most important things that came out of all of that preparation. I don't know if I can remember everything, all the information, but yeah.
Lisa: And did you go to Dr. Vella, who is a chiropractor, did you go to him before birth or just after?
Bettina: No, that was more postpartum.
Lisa: That's what I thought. Okay.
Bettina: Yeah, that was after we had the lip and tongue surgery. And I looked on your website for all of the body work resources, and he was the only one that was like in Astoria. He actually didn't end up taking my insurance, but has a very reasonable fee. Like very reasonable. And it was really the proximity, I think. Like he was like, oh, he's two stops away, on a bus that we can hop on.
Lisa: Nice.
Bettina: So when you have a three week old, that's really important.
Lisa: Oh yeah. Proximity is everything.
Bettina: Yeah.
Lisa: For sure.
Beginning of Pregnancy and Switching to Midwifery Model
Lisa: Great. So unless there's anything else you wanted to share about the prenatal journey, you can go ahead and jump into your birth story at whatever point in your pregnancy you want to,
Bettina: Yeah.
Lisa: Talk about that.
Bettina: I mean, I think, like I said, pregnancy itself was a little hard, in terms of I don't think people talked as much about it, but like the prenatal blues or, whatever happens, not postpartum, not that, I'm not saying postpartum depression's not real and that it's easy or anything of that nature, but pregnancy mentally can also not be all a skip in the park.
But I think after that, the biggest change for me or for us was switching to the midwifery model at Metropolitan. That was really good because when we started, asking the kind of questions that you had told us to ask, I had been with just a regular, NYU OB state of the art, blah, blah, blah, like technology, all that jazz.
But the OBs were a rotation, so I saw someone different every time I went in for a prenatal checkup, and they were just dismissive and a little bit patronizing about why are you asking these questions? I think one thing that really got to us was when she said what are you asking about a home birth or something?
We were just like, no, we just wanna know what our options are and how are things gonna happen? And just very simple questions. And that just really left a bad taste in our mouth and we were just like, we have to make a change. So I'm going back to your website, I looked at a bunch of, like midwives. This was before I took your class.
Lisa: And had you hired Simone at this point?
Bettina: No.
Lisa: Okay.
Bettina: It happened around the same time, I would say. Like we were looking for a doula and changing our whole OB versus midwife thing. Cuz I'm pretty sure just because I'm so thorough, we interviewed six doulas.
Lisa: That's impressive. That's a lot of work.
Bettina: Samir wasn't exactly happy about that. Yeah, I know. He said yes to every single one. up until--
Lisa: Yes. Can we just move on?
Bettina: Yeah. And they were all great, but then it was like, Simone was the busiest too, so we had to keep pushing off our meet and greet date with her.
And then when we decided on her, it was just like, oh, we're so glad we waited until the very last, like the sixth interview. and we picked her at the end of the day because we had already downloaded one of the contracts for another one. I think Shirin was one of them that we were highly considering. There were two more. We were about to do it, and then we met Simone. We're like, whoa, she's so cool. We have to go with Simone. And I was really interested in placenta encapsulation. And she offered that as part of her services. She is an herbalist, she's vegan.
There were just so many things that resonated with us. So. Yeah. And then with midwives, it was a little bit less straightforward cuz it was more like, okay, do they take insurance? A lot of them don't take insurance.
Lisa: Right.
Bettina: And it was really hard, like I probably looked up all of the ones you have on your resource page. And even some independent ones. And I was even beginning to look into how the whole insurance process would work, like with reimbursement, but I decided it was too stressful to like work through that.
Especially because even though technically the costs aren't gonna be as large if you go with a midwife, it was just too much to think about. Especially with the first pregnancy. And then we decided that at the end of the day, because this was our first pregnancy, we just would be more comfortable with being in a hospital.
And I think I was also lucky because I had good close friends who had home births or like births that were very low intervention. So I think, they say that you're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. That was really important for us and empowering for us instead of everyone around us having the regular hospital birth.
So it was very real for us that you can have a low intervention birth, that you're very, what's the word, like active in terms of decision making. And so that,
Lisa: That's unusual friends you have.
Bettina: Yeah.
Lisa: To have more than one.
Bettina: I feel very lucky. Yeah. one of my closest friends, her first birth was in a hospital and she literally fought to the death to not have an epidural. And the second birth she had was at home and all, both very smooth. She's smaller than me and had 10 pound babies, and I'm pretty small.
Lisa: That's encouraging.
Bettina: So yeah, it was very encouraging. But yeah, so long story short, with the midwives, it ended up being like Metropolitan was easiest because we had a great tour there they were very friendly. And there were a lot of very empowering women of color as well. That stood out to us. During the birth, it was a little bit, as you saw on my description, some things as a public hospital, they could do better.
Lisa: Administrative.
Bettina: Yes. Yeah. But yeah, I think everyone we met, it was very smooth sailing.
Baby Growth Concerns
Bettina: And then the biggest thing that happened was like week 37, it was like all of a sudden everything was wrong. Everything was right, you're doing well, your baby's growing, and then they measured like the fun, what is called the fundal height.
Lisa: Yep.
Bettina: And I was one cm short of it should be X cm equals X number of weeks.
And yeah, it was like, oh my goodness, like there's 6 million things we need to do. Like at the end of the day, they still need to follow hospital protocol. Like they may say one thing, but they're like, I think even the midwife was like, I don't really think it's an issue. It's probably a constitutional thing.
I mean, you've seen Samir and I, we're like pretty small people, we're probably not within the 10 percentile in the US. And so they were like, yeah, so we just need you to do a growth scan. And that was just the beginning of everything. Like work was really crazy for me because they needed me to do all this stuff before I left.
It was the last month or so. And then scheduling, NYU, the great thing about NYU is that it's a factory, business factory, right? So everything's super efficient. Like any sonogram, like they get you in, they can change your scheduling, everything's online, it's super efficient. So I have to say that took a lot of stress out at the beginning.
But this is just like the complete opposite when it came to Metropolitan. Like we could not schedule anything if our lives depended on it, literally.
Lisa: Oh.
Bettina: And it was because the scheduler was on vacation and then was on jury duty. So there was just nobody doing any scheduling . And so
Lisa: I think you compared it to the DMV when you wrote your birth story to me, right?
Bettina: I mean the DMV's a little bit better. But you know, the DMV 10 years ago when like you just stood in line and you never knew where you ended up.
Lisa: Uhhuh.
Bettina: Yeah, it was like that, it was crazy. The first time we did a growth scan, we waited for two hours and they'd just forgotten about us because there was nobody at the front desk.
And I literally had three meetings, like in the waiting room on my laptop. And it just put a lot of stress on the last couple weeks, I think. and then another midwife who I really liked, who ended up being at my birth, was very helpful. And she was like, look, these are the things that we have to do.
Increased Monitoring to Avoid Induction
Bettina: There were two midwives I met at the end because they were like, you could still talk to a midwife before you make a decision. So we always opted to do that. And so they're like, the baby's measuring small, based on this growth scan, that's a potential for FGR, keyword there, potential, doesn't equal FGR, based on gestational age, they would recommend inducing right away.
I was like, wait, what? I'm about to go into another meeting. Or you can, do increased monitoring, which was also stressful because I was like, I don't wanna be coming in three times a week when I have all this work to do. But we opted for increased monitoring. . And so two to three times a week we went in, we had to do another growth scan and then we had to do the NST, I actually had to write this down. NST BPP, the non-stress test and the
Lisa: Biophysical profile. Yes.
Bettina: Check your doppler. Cuz there were a few things you probably know better than I do now. I'm like, it's like a memory that I don't wanna keep.
Lisa: Sure.
Bettina: It was like they need to check if your placenta's working well, if the baby is still growing.
And something about the size of the head versus the size of the body. There were just so, so many things that were going over my head. And this was when Simone was also really key, cuz by then we had two prenatals with her. She was pretty clear about where our head was at and she would be texting us like before and after calling us and telling us like, okay, that's great.
But there was one thing she said, which we hadn't even thought about. She's like, well then ask them what happens after? So you're induced, and then what. We're like, oh, we didn't even think about that. So we asked and they're like, well it depends on how big the baby is. If the baby is normal, then it was like, okay, so whether or not I'm induced doesn't necessarily make a difference in terms of post-birth intervention or not.
And so they also weren't able to schedule a next scan for us. So every week we were at a lesser percentile, and I realized it was because they were basing it off of the same scan, but time was passing. Right. So it was like, well, he was three percentile last week and then he's 5, 4, 3, 2. I was like, but you guys are using the same scan because we haven't been able to schedule another scan.
So it was just like a whole mess.
Lisa: How bizarre.
Bettina: Yeah. And then the doctor couldn't see us and then nobody could explain to us what was pointing or what factors were saying that there was a potential for this. So nobody can convince us like in normal language.
Operation Natural Induction
Bettina: And I was just like, well, it's still just a potential. Like at the end of the day, this is recommended by the doctor. Why? Well, because of all these potential things, but my placenta's working fine. My dopplers are great. The baby's moving. There's nothing else that is pointing to something that's not usual. So we, we just kept doing it, the monitoring, and Simone was like, let's just get this, what did she call it? Operation Natural Induction. She was like, let's do this, let's eat this, let's do that. everything, I did everything, curb walking, eat spicy food, whether or not it's evidence-based. I was like, whatever, I'll try it. Yeah, eat this, eat that. Like whatever needs to happen.
Signing an AMA
Bettina: And oh, the other thing I wanted to mention that was really difficult, I'm actually reading through what I wrote to you, was at one point the midwife, one of my appointments, the midwives were attending a birth, and so I had to see an OB. Basically she was like, you need to induce now, or like tomorrow kind of thing. And if I choose not to, I had to sign an acknowledgement form. And in that conversation she must have said like stillbirth, like five times, in terms of what the risks were. And like she herself said that she works in a high risk hospital in one of her rotations or whatever.
So like she sees a lot and so she's always seeing the worst case scenario, which okay, cool. But that doesn't make me the worst case scenario automatically. Like I think at some point Samir was like, I think you're stressing her out way too much right now. So yeah, I had to sign this form where I took a picture of it to send to Simone.
Like it listed in four lines, like all the potential things that could happen. And I'm still not consenting to induction. I mean,
Lisa: This is an AMA so an Against Medical Advice form it sounds like.
Bettina: Probably, yeah. Yeah. And then I went into labor the next day, like literally.
Lisa: Yay.
Bettina: Yeah, she actually came up to me afterwards.
Lisa: What a relief.
Bettina: And said congrats, but,
Lisa: Oh good.
Bettina: But yeah, that was really hard cuz it was week 39 already. And like Simone was saying, the baby will come when the baby's ready. If you induce now and a lot of your podcast and during your class you said the same thing, inducing when the baby's not ready means automatically pretty much more intervention.
And I wasn't coming at it from I'm like anti intervention for the sake of it. But if there are things that I can do naturally and there's no risk or very balanced or relatively little risk, then why not do it that way? And so I'm really glad I stuck to that. We both stuck to our guns.
Beginning of Labor
Bettina: And labor came naturally and relatively, very little hiccups in terms of the process of it. So yeah, like going into the actual birth, I think I had pizza. I wrote that down. I was like, for some reason really craving pizza. And I remember you were like, I wanted pepperoni pizza
Lisa: In my first labor. Yep.
Bettina: Yeah. And I was like,
Lisa: Pizza for the win.
Bettina: Yeah. And I literally scoured the internet for gluten-free pizza in Astoria because Bellucci stopped making smaller pies. That was where we used to get it. But anyway, that's a side story. But yeah, I found gluten free pizza. We ordered pizza.
Lisa: Yay.
Bettina: And the next morning it was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm in labor.
And then Simone's like, wait, what? For real? Like literally everything worked that quickly. And then the app that you told us to download, she told us to keep sending screenshots. As soon as that happened, Simone was like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna come at around two. She's like, okay, I'm coming right now.
Cuz apparently it was happening faster than she had expected. And around five ish, I wanna say. So I started laboring in bed around seven, and then around five, six, like early evening we went into the hospital. That was not a fun ride, like that moment of going into the Uber, I was like, now I understand why people do home births, like traveling in labor. Terrible.
Lisa: Yes. Agreed. So wait, how long was Simone with you before you left for the hospital?
Bettina: She probably arrived between noon and one. And we labored at home. She was texting us throughout the process. We were joking afterwards that her remedy for everything is take a walk, including postpartum. I was like, Eshe's not sleeping.
She's like, take a walk. Like I'm in labor, take a walk. I'm pushing, take a walk. I was like, someone needs to make a doula t-shirt that says take a walk, the doula's solution to everything. But yeah, we took a walk on our rooftop. I took a shower. By the time I was in the shower, she came, we did some positions on the couch.
Heading to the Hospital
Bettina: And then she was like, yeah, no, we have to go to the hospital like right now. And so I think we probably arrived, my timing is probably not the most accurate, but five six, I think. They put us in this like little tiny examination room. And by then I was barely able to speak by the time I got to the hospital.
And I was, I think pretty much almost two minutes apart, I think with close to one minute contractions. I was like 80% effaced, but only two cm dilated. And I remember in your class, you were like, sometimes you might not wanna know, and I wasn't sure if I wanted to know, but when I heard that I was like, no,
Lisa: You thought you were more dilated, I'm sure, yeah.
Bettina: And Simone was actually very surprised because she was like, she looks like she's about to give birth. And she had just gone to a birth where they had sent somebody home and she gave birth at home. And then she's like, and baby looks really low. We ended up finding out that I had a bulging sac.
So it was like a lot of that. But yeah, she was like very nicely, calmly, but very what's the word, staunchly recommending that we are not sent home. And that midwife was kind of like,I don't know. I think you should go home. But now we know it was the end of her shift, so she was like, whatever with this, the next midwife can deal with this case , but she was like, yeah, we can make a plan.
Being Left Alone
Bettina: And then she just kind of walked away. So like this whole process of nobody really attending to us and like the shift change now and, hindsight's 20/20, in retrospect, this did wonders for us because Simone was like, in any other hospital, they would've been like timing you, they would've been like, you need to do this, by this time.
They just left us alone for a few hours and they're like, yeah, as long as you wear a mask, you can walk the halls. And then there was just like nobody around for a while because there was a shift change. And so we walked the halls like I really had time to like, relax, which like, that's one of my lessons, like relaxing through the contractions.
It sounds like an oxymoron even now. But yeah, that was what I had to do. Like I just really had to open up and as soon as they had a shift change, everything changed. It was like, my favorite midwife, like the one that I had seen earlier came in and even Simone had known her.
Samir was like, oh my gosh, I think she's so much happier now that she's seeing you even though she's like going through a contraction right now. She was very like, okay, we're here because I guess the other midwife didn't read my chart, she's like well, you have this potential thing, so obviously we're not gonna send you home.
I don't even have to check you if you don't want me to. We're gonna admit you, do your thing. We have laughing gas. everything was like, yay, like blue skies again. Like the whole vibe changed. Even though, obviously I was still not happy in terms of going through the contractions, but it was much, much better.
Laboring in Room
Bettina: And I really could not imagine going home. So, we had to wait obviously a few hours because they had to wipe down everything. That took a few hours, for some reason. And so Samir and Simone did their best in this tiny little room to create the atmosphere. Simone brought all these aromatherapy scents, I tried to eat something. I did not stop moving. Like I had so many different positions, we would walk up and down the hall. And then finally I got into the room, which was great. It was huge. It was wireless monitoring, so I didn't have to be attached to these wires on the bed.
And the bed moved as well so I could like be on all fours. And the laughing gas was there, which was great. This is like the funniest part of the story now. And I was just like, all right, I can do this. If I can get some kind of relief, because I still didn't have an epidural and I was still on the fence.
From the beginning I was like, I'm not gonna not do the epidural for the sake of it. I'm gonna see how I feel like I wanted that to be a flexible decision in my own head. There was a peanut ball, so everything was like going pretty well and then labor really started to speed things up.
And I was like, okay, if I don't get this nitrous oxide I may need an epidural. And my water still hadn't broken, which was like, in the back of my head was like worrying me a little bit because it, I think that was part of the reason why the baby wasn't moving down faster. But I was like, really in labor, and feeling all of it.
And they were squeezing, like all the comfort positions, like everything on all the posters in your living room, we did that, I'm sure, because like I was just like every which way, all the different positions, I couldn't keep still.
Deciding to Not Get Epidural
Bettina: And that was when I realized like, I can't get an epidural.
Like the point when I realized it sounds more painful for me to stay still for 20 minutes than to keep on these contractions. And I was like, oh my goodness, my life is gonna end. But that's like the better of the two evils. And so yeah, finally in just a very short while of time, I was like six centimeters dilated and fully effaced.
And they're like, just keep doing what you're doing. I hated hearing that at the time, cuz I was already saying to Simone like, look, I don't think I can do this anymore.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Bettina: She's like, you're doing it, you're doing it. Just keep doing it. I'm like, I can't. And then meanwhile there's this whole thing going on about the laughing gas, right?
They're like, we can't find the tubes. Like the manager's looking for it, but the manager's out. It's the weekend. Every time they came back there was a new thing. Oh, they're looking in the storage, they're looking in the basement, they're reporting back. And it was literally like in my face and it was like this close to me, because I was like on a bed–
Lisa: Like a foot away from you.
Bettina: Huge canister of gas. And I was laboring with my face, like right there. And I was like,
Lisa: Oh, come on, people.
Bettina: I'm never gonna get, I'm never gonna get this. But yeah, now it's funny, but–
Lisa: That's wild.
Bettina: Then it was not funny. But yeah, and like I said, I didn't get an epidural, so I really ended up doing everything naturally, which was not my intention, but I think at the end it was a good thing in terms of my recovery. But then–
Creating a Calming Environment
Lisa: Did you mention what you were listening to?
Bettina: Oh yeah, we were looping the same song.
Lisa: Oh, one song,
Bettina: Which is now Eshe's favorite, like birth song we call it.
Lisa: Aww.
Bettina: It's called Breathable Moment, I think. I always get the name wrong, but, I can send it to you, yeah. Because I was just like, I need something that's relaxing.
Lisa: Yes.
Bettina: And then every time they switched to the next song, I was like, no, same song. And so they just looped the whole song. And there was this one scent that I kept asking for, it's called Adaptive, I think. And it's a mix of, something that's like uplifting and relaxing at the same time.
So she said she didn't want me to relax too much and slow things down cuz this was the time things needed to happen. But at the same time, she didn't want me to be too tense. So that mix was perfect for me. So the sound and the smell was really important. And of course Simone and Samir being there the whole time.
And we had a great nurse who was actually a former doula training to be a midwife and crazy side story, Samir used to be her boss, like at a prior job.
Lisa: No way.
Bettina: Yeah. They both used to work in retail and he was her manager. It was one of the craziest things. And then she and Simone knew each other through Instagram cuz of doulas–
Lisa: Oh, cool.
Bettina: Following each other. So it was like a very nice atmosphere, in hindsight. But I mean, for me at that point I was just like, whatever. But now it was a really good atmosphere to be in,and to labor in. And so at some point things slowed down, which was a really good relief for me cuz I was really too intense for a while, but then I was like, wait, I don't want things to move down either.
And I think there were nine babies born that day, so the midwives were really busy. And so there's no one around except Simone and the nurse.
Figuring Out Baby's Position
Bettina: And so they did some baby mapping. And like I think I wrote, most of my labor was back labor. I remember you saying that you had that too. And that was part of what was making it so terrible. And they were like, I think baby is sunny side up. That's what's going on.
Lisa: What it sounded like.
Bettina: And why it's slowing down. Yeah.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. With such a frequency and an intensity when you're just two centimeters dilated. I mean, the forewaters also could, if that's in front of the baby, that also makes it harder to dilate the cervix as efficiently. But yeah, that's not surprising at all.
Bettina: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's because I wasn't in an epidural, but I couldn't even process anything. It was just like one feeling constantly. At one point they thought I was pushing because I had contractions that were like seven, eight minutes and it was just so much.
And then when things slowed down, they're like, well, baby can't move down. And so they needed me to be in a side lying position. So as painful as it was at that point, I needed something to happen. So they put me, they called it an exaggerated lunge on a peanut ball.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Bettina: So I spent a long time doing that to turn baby. So both the nurse and Simone helped me do that on one side and then the other, to make space for baby to turn.
Baby Turns and Pushing Begins
Bettina: And I guess it worked because baby turned and all of a sudden it was like a light switch. I was definitely pushing, like I couldn't process any of these changes. It was just like, it was obvious for everyone involved.
It was like a whole new peak, I think it's called transition. It was just like,
Lisa: Yeah.
Bettina: Everything's changed all of a sudden. And then I was just like, this can't happen for much longer. I'm like, it's too intense and my water still hadn't broken. And so I was like, okay, can you ask? I asked Simone can you ask them to break my water?
Cause I can't do this anymore. If it's gonna make it faster, I want everything to happen faster. And everyone was filing in at this point, the lights were on cuz they're like, she's pushing, she's pushing. And then my water broke, actually. Yeah, which is great. I was like–
Lisa: Just like going into labor before the induction.
Bettina: I know. And then when that happened, I could feel like a relief and baby moved down much faster. And I think at the end, not all of it had broken, actually. Like right before a baby came out, they had to break it again for me because there was a bit left. But yeah, I pushed 29 minutes.
I mean, it felt like 29 hours for me, but the midwives later told me that I probably didn't need to push for that long. But the reason was because of the sac. I had a full bladder. I remember in your class you said remember to pee, but I couldn't because of the sac. I had a very full bladder.
And because of the sac, that's why it took as long because they said your baby's like pretty small. Like you could have probably pushed for a lot less time if those two things weren't in the way. I was basically pushing two other things along with the baby. I had pushed on hands and knees for most of it, and then they turned me on my side at the very end.
One person was holding my leg, one of the midwives was holding my leg out, and it was just like, you just need to get the baby out right now. They were just letting me do my thing for the longest time, but the last two minutes, they're like, you need to hold your breath and [bearing down sound].
Baby is Born
Bettina: Cause the baby needs to come out now and then everything happened very quickly after that. But yeah, that was relatively smooth. Like I was conscious the whole time. It was very, now I can say very empowering in terms of wow, like my body did all that by itself.
I had no idea that was gonna be how it happened. And it was just such a relief. Like the whole process was such a relief. And we were able to do skin to skin. Samir was able to cut the cord. We were able to delay it. We weren't able to delay as much as we probably would've liked, but because of the potential IUGR there was this whole thing about we need to weigh the baby, we need to weigh the baby, we need to weigh the baby. But they were very respectful of my birth preferences. It was really funny, like when I was pushing and I was like in hell, they were just very calmly, the midwife was like handing out my birth preferences.
Oh, she wants this, she doesn't want this. I was like, baby is not even out yet. Can you just focus on me? But they were like, okay, yeah, vitamin K, like very administrative about it. But yeah, they were very respectful of that, so I appreciated it. But the pediatrician and his team his little posse was Just like lingering.
Lisa: I love that you called it a posse.
Bettina: That's like a whole other army and protocol that the midwives can't touch. Midwives are great and, in taking care of me, taking care of baby and preferences right afterwards. Delaying as much as we could, the cord clamping despite what the pediatricians were hovering by trying to get us to weigh the baby, letting us have the skin to skin time.
But at some point the midwives were like, okay, the pediatrician has to talk to you now. And so I was still like in shock, when you're like shaking and the pediatrician was like, okay. We need to weigh the baby. If the baby's this many pounds, then this has to happen.
If the baby's this many pounds, this is what has to happen. I didn't really process any of what he said, but I just knew that they needed to weigh the baby. I was like, okay, go weigh the baby. and I just remember that, okay, make sure Samir is there when they're weighing the baby. And of course the baby was like almost six pounds and so no NICU, no nothing. So the next concern was blood sugar. I know.
Lisa: Oh, okay. Okay.
Bettina: Even though they were saying he was gonna be four pounds. The next thing was like blood sugar. And so that was the start of the whole breastfeeding, formula, shenanigans, that's like its own story I guess.
Reflections on a Smooth Birth and Recovery
Bettina: But I think that for the birth part, like that was beautiful.
Up until that point, like everything happened in a very good way, at the end of the day. Yes, all of this administrative stuff was terrible. But in the end, now that I think about it, it worked in my favor. I like, did it myself, you know? Oh, and I also ended up not needing stitches or anything.
I was convinced that I had tore, I was like, how many degree tears did I have? Because it felt like it was crazy. And then the midwife was like, oh, you might need one stitch. Oh, but it stopped. You're good . That's not how it feels. I feel like I need 10. But yeah, it meant that I had a very smooth, relatively smooth recovery.
I remember in your last podcast, Dr. Sharma was like, keep those things in your Amazon cart. That's what I did.
Lisa: Yes.
Bettina: I had a lot of those things, but I didn't buy them. I was like, oh, I shouldn't mess myself up thinking that I'm gonna have like fourth degree tears when maybe I won't. And I didn't, so yay.
I did make like padsicles and I used those. But, other than that it was relatively not as bad as I had psyched myself up to. I really prepared for a lot of pain during recovery. But yeah, so I think that was great.
Blood Sugar and Feeding
Bettina: But then I think what started being difficult was just the postpartum stage.
There was a lot of pressure in terms of blood sugar. So his blood sugar was not off the charts. I think it was like between X and Y is normal, X being the low Y being the high, and he was like one or two, whatever units, above the low. And so now that I think about it, I was like, well, he's technically in range.
But they were like, it's low. So if breastfeeding doesn't happen now,
Lisa: But it's not, it's in the normal range.
Bettina: Breastfeeding needs to happen now, we're gonna come back in 15 minutes. And we're gonna measure him again. because he's still small, even though he's not NICU small, he's still small.
Then we're giving you formula. So the thing that I am still happy about is like the battle we did win was we brought our own formula. and like the nurse there was really good about, they're like, well, do you have water? And the nurse was like, we got you. Like I'll get you water. Like the laboring nurse.
So we were able to feed him our own formula, not like whatever the hospital was gonna give us. So that was a little bit of a win. But you know, obviously with that kind of pressure, and like even with Simone there, like latch didn't happen right away. I had harvested colostrum.
That was another thing I got from your website. So he did have some colostrum, but it was not enough to raise his blood sugar to whatever level that they needed it to be. 15 minutes or whatever timeframe it was after, and then every four hours, for the next 48 hours, they were monitoring his blood sugar and the poor thing, like his tiny little feet were like purple from all the pokes.
And that was part of the reason why we decided not to circumcise because I had just given Samir the ability to decide on that. I was like, I would prefer not to, but you know, if it's important to you, you can make the call. At that point he was like, no way. Because there were so many needles involved, like right after he was born.
Lisa: He's been poked enough. Yeah.
Bettina: Yeah. It was like a lot of very intense monitoring. And we had a nurse who was from the NICU so her mindset was like, he's gonna be hypoglycemic, he's gonna be hypoglycemic, and that affects brain development and blah, blah, blah.
And it put so much pressure on us. We were feeding him like obsessively, making formula, making formula, Samir went and bought a kettle, like at the nearest Target just so that we could continue to make our own formula. And it was because they kept wanting to give us formula as well.
Even then, because we had transferred to the postpartum unit by then and our nurse wasn't there to help us through that. And so that was the beginning of our feeding journey. It was just like, you gotta feed, feed, feed. And at some point we got really upset that it looked like they were trying to force feed him.
And then long story short, the head pediatrician came to apologize and explained to us like why, which was helpful. They were just like, we're just really concerned that he's small and so we really want to make sure that the hypoglycemia doesn't happen. We don't wanna force feed him.
They gave us a little bit more explanation, which helped, but it was a lot of pressure and we wanted out of there and so when they cleared him in terms of the first 48 hours of blood sugar monitoring, his blood sugar was like off the chart. Well not off the charts, but way within the range.
Meeting with Lactation Consultants
Bettina: I was fine. So I was like, can we leave? Is there any reason why we have to stay? And they were like, no. So they allowed us to have an early checkout. So we left like basically two nights after birth. And it was so nice to be home again and Simone saw us right away. But then I guess because the feeding was still, there was a lot of pressure on that, I met with Kara, the lactation consultant, and then later Annie as well. But the main concern was like, make sure he gets enough, make sure he gets enough. And because the latching wasn't happening, it was a big challenge and they were trying to figure out, because between the inverted nipple, and with him, Kara and Annie were trying to figure out what's going on.
And then when I saw Annie for the first time, she was like, oh, I think, I can't tell you this, but he has a lip and tongue tie. And then we're like, oh, what's that. Like , I'm sure I had read about it somewhere, somehow, but it was not in our radar. And then when she explained that to us, we got the procedure done pretty quickly. I had friends who had that done.
I think the doctor's also listed on your resources page. He was really good, really fast. And I wouldn't say it changed breastfeeding, really. Like Annie was helpful to help in showing me that it was possible, like he did latch like a handful of times. And the next issue though was that I wasn't making enough milk. So I'm sure I read about it at some point, but supply problems, that was like a whole other thing for me because before I had Eshe I was like, it's all or nothing. Right?
You breastfeed or you don't breastfeed. I didn't know that there was this in between of oh, I could pump and give him breast milk. I was like, oh. That's amazing. Let me do that. And so I became obsessive about my supply, basically, and trying to get my supply up, but I was really not producing nearly enough.
And that was really frustrating. And I think Annie was really helpful for being very non-judgmental and trying to help me increase supply in any way possible. At the same time, helping Eshe recover from the lip and tongue tie. Cuz at some point between before and after the procedure, he couldn't suck.
Annie spent a long time figuring out what was going on cuz feeding was an issue not just because he couldn't breastfeed like on my breast, but because he wasn't doing it efficiently on the bottles. Like newborns are tired all the time anyway, and so they fall asleep all the time.
So that part was normal, and Annie was the one that was able to see it. He wasn't sucking on the bottle, he was like clamping down, swallowing. And that was more tiring.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Bettina: And so he wasn't getting enough and he was getting even more tired than newborn tired.
Lisa: Right, yeah, they wear themselves out. Yeah. Working too hard.
Bettina: Yeah. So that was like the next main priority. I couldn't even think about breastfeeding. I was like, okay, let's make sure he can feed even on a bottle cuz we need to make sure he feeds in the first couple of days. So that was a whole process. And then Dr. Vella was great as well because we then started doing some body work to relax him.
And then Annie gave us some exercises and slowly, I think it took at least a month or so, and we had to go through three different types of bottles, and it was actually a trainer bottle, that has this long part, but it was a trainer bottle that at the end of the day, got everything working again. Or not again, but he relearned how to use everything.
And that one bottle, which was like $30, but it was the best $30 we've ever spent, retrained him to suck. And that was when we could finally breathe again. He was able to efficiently feed from a bottle. He gained weight really quickly. Our pediatrician was so happy. He was like, do whatever you need to do.
You're good. He's good. Like he's gaining weight. Whatever makes you feel happy or makes it whole for you. You have plenty of bandwidth because he's gaining weight. So that was at least a good month and a half. but yeah, I never ended up making enough milk, which I think now I'm slowly realizing that I need to be a little bit less obsessive over that.
Reflections on Feeding
Bettina: And I'm rereading some of the books that I read before and realizing that another thing I couldn't prepare for is that logic goes out the window sometimes when you're postpartum. Like how much the emotional drive takes over. And it was so obvious for me when I was pregnant and reading this book.
Like for example, I'm rereading Cribsheet by Emily Oster and she has very, great data driven information about breastfeeding. And I was like, oh, that makes sense. I don't need to obsess over it if it doesn't work. But when I was like in it, I was so upset, still am a little bit, I would say, obsessive over it and that was the hardest part. I think me, I've been getting in the way of getting through all this more than anything. Especially because feeding is such a big thing. And then because I was so obsessively pumping all the time, like every two hours, not getting enough sleep, I wasn't able to participate in the feeding relationship because Samir would help as much as possible and bottle feed while I was just like obsessively pumping and trying to get more milk and taking all supplements. So yeah, I think that's been the most difficult part for me.
Lisa: Yeah, time and time again-
Bettina: Thank you for listening. That was a lot more than,
Lisa: No.
Bettina: I was thinking about.
Lisa: It's great, Bettina, I'm glad you're sharing all of this. The thing I hear all the time from new parents is just, yeah, that deep emotional investment that surprises us at how deep it runs and the pressure that we put on ourselves and how challenging that can be. Deeply challenging. And how it can often hit our mental health in surprising ways.
So, I'm always glad for people to share that. Thank you.
Choosing Formula and Feeding with Syringe
Lisa: I wanted to ask you with regard to the formula, what was it that made you decide you wanted to bring your own formula to the hospital and was it a specific kind that you just, for your family, preferred over something that the hospital might provide?
Bettina: Yeah. We wanted to have European formula, and I mean I had done some research and it just felt more comfortable to know about the ingredients and where things came from and what organic meant. And also friends of mine, highly recommended HiPP we ended up with,
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Bettina: This German formula we just wanted to know what it was. And we had no idea what the hospital was gonna give us.
Lisa: Sure.
Bettina: And so yeah, we made sure we brought the formula and the colostrum to the hospital.
Lisa: I do wish that HiPP and Holle had a liquid version.
Bettina: Yeah.
Lisa: Just because normally for newborns it's recommended to do liquid. It's just because it's sterile and the powder isn't. And then with the formula, did you use a regular bottle with an artificial nipple or a syringe, or a cup, or a spoon?
Bettina: Oh yeah, that's a good question. We started with a syringe. So we actually syringe fed him for most of basically the first two weeks. And so I think that was recommended by the lactation consultant probably.
Lisa: Yeah.
Bettina: I think Kara like, yeah, keep it on the syringe.
And also Simone at the very beginning they were like, yeah, let's use it. They gave us a syringe actually, in the labor room to feed. And he was really good at taking from the syringe, just like squeezing at the edge of his mouth. So yeah, we syringe fed him for a good two weeks or so until he was taking so much that even the bigger syringes were too bulky.
Lisa: Wasn't enough. Yeah.
Bettina: Yeah. And that's when we started the bottle and that's when the whole bottle, sucking thing became an issue as well.
Lisa: Okay. Thanks for elaborating on those things.
Newborn Chiropractic Care
Lisa: And I was wondering if you might be willing to share a little bit about the body work sessions with Dr. Vella the chiropractor. What was--
Bettina: Yeah. He's like some kind of magician I think.
Lisa: I know. That's what everybody always says.
Bettina: We dunno what happened.
Lisa: Right. It's such gentle techniques, right?
Bettina: Yeah. No, I think what Annie had said was that part of it could be,they both affect each other, right? She was saying that the tension causing lip and tongue tie effects, that was before we figured out he had one, that was like making him too tense. Or it could be the other way around, the lip and tongue tie was causing the tension. And so she said either reason, whatever it is, it's good to help him release that tension either through craniosacral therapy, some kind of body work basically, she said. And she gave me a bunch of links.
And I did the same thing. I just think I said proximity, and potential for insurance, but proximity was the most important because he was so young. And we went into the city for the procedure and that was like, oh man, we don't want to do this again. Especially because we knew it would be like, not just one session, probably more than one session.
So we wanted someone close and local. . And I still remember the first time after we went, he was so small, he barely fit on one knee. We have pictures of Dr. Vella and Eshe and he was so tiny in the beginning and now he fits on his lap. But he was just like, I don't, we don't know what he did, but after the first session, he went from always being like, if you picked Eshe up, he would be in a fetal position, like constantly really tight.
We didn't realize he was really tight until after that actually.
Lisa: Yeah.
Bettina: Always really, really tight. He just like relaxed, like he would flop when we picked him up, which had never happened.
Lisa: Wow.
Bettina: And he slept, I think the most, the very first time after that, too many other factors were going into sleep, but the very first time, it was like we could see a marked difference. But overall it was mainly just decreasing tension and having him like flop around more in his body.
Those were the main things that really helped.
Lisa: Yeah. I'm so glad you shared that. Thank you. I just saw Dr. Vella a couple of days just for my regular personal monthly maintenance, and he was talking to me about the fascia and this layer, across our whole body and how a lot of the pediatric work that's done, with a craniosacral therapist or a chiropractor is almost always very gentle and they're often dealing with the fascia because it can get a little twisted and a little tight in the birthing process.
And just these gentle adjustments can be so powerfully effective. Like magic, as you said, in really just releasing a lot of tension, including in the oral restriction in the area of the mouth. So that's really cool to hear. I was skeptical when I first started going to him personally. I hadn't grown up, with chiropractic normalized really. But once I started going I was just like, he is a magician. It's amazing. It really is very powerful and very effective. So yeah, I'm really happy to hear that was helpful for Eshe.
Well, what else did you wanna share? Was there anything else that you wanted to share before we start to wrap things up?
Bettina: No, I think those are the main things, unless there's anything else you want me to elaborate on.
Impact of the Story of Inanna
Lisa: Well, one thing you shared with me was, at the end of class I share this mythic story of Inanna from the wonderful book, Transformed by Birth, by Dr. Britta Bushnell. And, you had referred to it when you looped back around and shared your birth story with me and,if I may, I would love to just read a little bit of the very beginning of what you wrote me. Would that be okay? And you can just let me know if you want me to edit it out.
Bettina: Yeah, sure. Yeah, I forgot about that. I'm glad you mentioned it.
Lisa: I love the whole first paragraph that you wrote. "I'm not the go with the flow kind of person. Ironic, because that's part of the meaning of Eshe's Chinese name. I like to optimize all variables that I can control, do all the research, and have a plan before I start anything.
This whole journey that started with the idea of family has shown me that sometimes you just have to trust the process and go with the flow, and that fluidity and agility are also a form of strength. I see clearly now how the story of Inanna provides a beautiful metaphor to the journey of conception, birth, and family.
My favorite part of that was fluidity and agility are also a form of strength. You have a way with words.
Bettina: Thank you.
Lisa: That's so true.
Bettina: Yeah. I remember now thinking back to your story, and I don't know if you remember, there was a whole thing. I lost it, like I lost the scroll and I had you send it to me on PDF.
I'm so glad. And then I, of course, found it afterwards. But, I think the thing that made the connection for me is vulnerability. It's like the metaphor about the layers where all of her different things being cast away. It's like you're just so vulnerable. Like you're so raw in the moment.
And that's really what it was that connected it for me with Inanna like losing this and losing that. .
Lisa: Yeah.
Importance of a Good Support System
Bettina: I mean, the only thing I would reemphasize again, is just like the people around you just create your experience. I mean, obviously you, yourself, that's where it starts, right? I think that's where I didn't really talk too much about it, but the hypnobirthing thing really helped me realize it's just like you're really in it inside of yourself.
Especially, I mean, I can't speak for how it feels like, for other people. But for me it was very so introspectively intense. Like you're just there with the feeling like, I don't even wanna use the word pain because I don't think that even fully describes how it feels, but like the whole kind of intense process.
You're just so in yourself and so vulnerable that the people immediately around you throughout that time, not just the actual birth and the labor, but afterwards, that vulnerability remains and you have to be really open to being okay with it and opening up for people to help you through that.
And it's really just about the people. Like having people that you trust and that resonate well with you, has been really important. Having you, your class, that was a really good kind of beginning of creating, like getting that sense of community. And then having Simone and then all the other people who have just helped along the way, like I said, Annie, Kara, Dr. Vella, they've all been so important in helping me through it. Like it's still hard. At the end of the day, it's still you yourself and you like dealing with everything. but it's really good to have that help.
Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. It would be a lot harder without that community of support.
Well, thank you so much, Bettina. I really appreciate your willingness to share your beautiful journey.
Bettina: Thanks Lisa.