Today’s birth story is shared by Mara and Dylan. Mara did lots of great prep for birth in pregnancy – acupuncture, massage, birth class, hiring a doula, yoga, and more. Having heard her stepmom share how beautiful her own home birth was, this planted a seed of trust in the birthing process. When the time comes for her own baby’s birth, she feels most in her element laboring at home, using the shower for hydrotherapy almost nonstop. In fact, she was so in her element that she labored at home almost too long, and their doula diverts them to a different hospital when Mara starts getting the urge to push in the car. Listen to today’s story to hear how things play out from there. This story carries some striking similarities to a story shared earlier this season in Episode 83 by Nadia. So while we have two last-minute detours in this season, please don’t get it into your head that this is common because it’s not common at all – it’s quite an uncommon coincidence.
Resources:
Anna Cheechov - doula
Stephanie Propper - acupuncturist (home visits)
Depends* (disposable bikini briefs / adult diapers)
Water Immersion for Pain Relief During Labor & Birth podcast (Evidence Based Birth)
Xiuting Hawkins, IBCLC - lactation consultant 347.978.4484
Sponsor links:
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens and virtual)
East River Doula Collective (one-off topical classes, find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Episode Topics:
Suffering a loss last December, getting pregnant a few months later
Always knew she wanted a doula
Wanted a midwife, but hard to find - landed on Alexandra Cohen with an OB who had good reviews for low-intervention
Hired Anna Cheechov
Feeling like they overprepared
Getting prenatal massages
Acupuncturist Stephanie Propper - home visits
They both had Covid in Jan 2021 right before getting pregnant and Mara loses her sense of smell and taste
Mara experiences taste dysmorphia – seems worsened by having had Covid
Dylan’s observations about the differences between the 3 trimesters
Hydration/electrolyte tablets helped reduce edema at end of pregnancy
Watching for pre-labor signs at end of pregnancy
Sunday before labor she had gotten a massage
The day she went into labor she had an acupuncture appointment and washes her hair
That evening (at around 38 weeks), around 6:30pm, started with mild cramping
That night, had a nice meal together
Went to bed around 11pm, but she couldn’t sleep and moved to couch
Around 3-4am, she wakes Dylan to tell him she thinks she’s in labor
Took a shower and got back into bed
Woke him around 4-5am and texted doula around 6am
Dylan makes some chicken & stars, then bagel and smoothie for Mara
Dylan tries hands-on comfort measures but she didn’t want to be touched
Miles Circuit tried, didn’t work during contractions
Shower with sprayer was what helped her the most
She was able to sleep in between contractions
Around noon she isn’t sure she can tolerate another 12 hours of labor (but spoiler alert, she gives birth around 4pm)
Comments on how nice it was to labor at home
A bit after noon, things are getting more intense but still manageable
Anna asked if they wanted to go to the hospital but Mara says no
Water breaks around 2:30-2:45 along with mucus plug, so Anna had already told them then that’s likely a good time to go (along with contractions)
Using Depends, trying to get ready to go to but wanting to sit on the toilet
Trying to wait for doula but also feeling a sense of urgency
Doula does arrive just in time to ride in car
Doula Anna does some counterpressure moves while Mara is feeling the need to push
Anna encourages Mara to exhale to resist bearing down and slow things down; glad to have had her there for guidance
Anna reroutes them to go to Methodist, took about 8 min
She gives birth within 20 min of arriving
Asking her intake questions suh as if she’s a smoker while she’s needing to push
They have no beds available, so they wheel her into triage
Dylan advocates for no directed pushing and for her to not push on her back while Mara’s feeling panicky
Doc does perineal massage and encourages her to slow things down but she can’t
Has a 1st, 2nd and “mild” 3rd degree tear (which has healed very well for her)
Immediate skin to skin
Baby doesn’t latch right away
First urination
Doula orders her an Italian sub
Treating baby for jaundice while they were in the hospital
Cup feeding and pumping as well as supplementing with formula until baby successfully latches once home
Had a couple of lactation consultants come after about a week of breastfeeding
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Welcome, how are you today?
Mara: Great. Thank you for having us.
Lisa: Can you please just introduce yourselves a little bit, maybe share the area of New York City that you live in and how long ago you gave birth and so forth?
Mara: I'm Mara.
Dylan: I'm Dylan.
Mara: We're both attorneys, we live in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, very close to the Brooklyn Museum, and I gave birth about four weeks and two days ago.
Exactly four weeks and two days ago.
Dylan: December 8th.
Lisa: And that was before your due date, right? I believe.
Mara: It was two weeks before my due date. I think I was due on the 21st. So one week and six days. Before I hit record you were sharing about how, right now, it's getting a little challenging where baby is, like just wanting to be held and wanting to eat all the time, right? But that's normal for about this age, about four to six weeks. Often the crying peaks and it's really intense for new parents.
Lisa: So, thank you all the more for being willing to take the time and have the presence of mind to share your birth story.
Mara: It's good to do it when it's fresh.
Lisa: That's true. That's really true, because it's amazing, some of the feelings of it really, really stick with you and then other things like the little details often really fade a lot pretty quickly. So, I'm really glad you're doing this because now you'll have an audio journal of your birth story.
The pregnancy preparation
Lisa: Do you want to share a little bit about your pregnancy journey and how you prepared for the journey into parenthood?
Mara: Yeah, absolutely. So Dylan and I, you know, we've been married, and we decided we wanted to start to try to have a child. We actually suffered a loss last December, so we kind of went through that, but then we got pregnant a few months after that.
Got pregnant
Mara: So we got pregnant in March or April. and I think, I don't really know what we expected but, my stepmom had actually given birth to my little brother at home, in the bathtub. So I think that shaped a lot of how I saw my pregnancy going and how we saw the birth going. So after we got pregnant, we started planning.
Choice of doula and birth center
Mara: I've always known that I wanted a doula. I think they're invaluable, so we started looking for a doula and looking for a place to give birth. I think from the beginning, I and Dylan, really wanted a natural, low intervention birth experience, which seems a little daunting in New York City based on everything that you hear.
We had previously thought about going with a midwife group, but there's not that many in New York and they are all under the care of doctors. We did some research, and we chose a provider based on, you know, just some reviews saying that they were very supportive of natural births and things like that.
And we'd been planning to give birth at Alexandra Cohen. The private room was really a selling point. There's not that many hospitals in New York that have that. So we got that in order.
Over-prepared?
Mara: And I think we started reading a lot. I think we maybe over prepared in some ways. We read a lot, did a lot of that stuff.
But for some of us that feels really like a good choice, right? Because I don't know if this applies to you, but for me, I would rather be over-prepared than feel under-prepared. Just that sense of confidence and peace that for some personalities it gives us, does that resonate at all?
That definitely describes me. I don't know if that describes Dylan.
I think we'd spend a lot of time reading. We took your class, Lisa, we met with our doula, Anna Cheechov, who was great, on multiple occasions. So I think we did, by the time we were a few weeks out, kind of getting towards the end of November and knew we were getting to full term, I think we felt fairly confident.
Dylan: I mean, as much as confident as you can for first-time parents, because you still you don't know what to expect. And there's a lot of stuff that this is going to be out of your control in the birth process, but I felt like we were as prepared as we could be.
Mara: Yeah. It was a lot of ups and downs. I think leading up to it though, I kind of questioned if I was going with the right provider, if I should have gone with a midwife, stressing about the nursery, things like that. It was a lot of spurts of a lot of activity all at once.
But as it got closer to the birth, you know, I was very comfortable with my choice of provider, and I felt pretty prepared.
Loved Lisa's class
Your class was really helpful. I thought we knew exactly what was going to happen. Actually the, the water bottle.
Lisa: Remember how, how many times I say, a huge range of normal, that's my disclaimer.
Mara: Yeah.
Lisa: Sorry, the water bottle.
Mara: It's been my favorite. I've actually bought two, the straw has been like a life changer to me.
Lisa: Is that a Hydroflask I see?
Mara: The Hydroflask.
Lisa: So fantastic, right?
Mara: birth and breastfeeding. It's been like a game-changer
Lisa: Oh, good, I love it. And I love that you have an orange one that I see, because we're meeting on Zoom so I can see it. Because it reminds me of a beloved doula client of mine a few years back, she had an orange one and I praised it so much because she loved it so much.
And I just, I thought it was like a fun color, and that the one that I show in class is what she gifted me with, after I had attended her birth, which was really generous because those are expensive.
Dylan: Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I have two.
Lisa: You have two! That's awesome. I love it, it's great.
A little prenatal pampering
But yeah, but some other things I think, closer to the due date, I started getting massages. I have a masseuse that I love. I started getting massages like once a month and then every other week.
Mara: I made sure to still pamper myself a little bit, I would get my nails done and my toes done because that kind of makes me feel like more of a human being.
I started getting acupuncture close to my due date. I had someone come to my house. She's actually great too, Stephanie Propper. She's known throughout.
Lisa: She is known the top acupuncturist for pregnancy.
Mara: Pregnancy [acupuncturist] yeah.
Lisa: Totally.
So she was coming to my house. It was actually really nice. There's such a community with the prenatal world.
I had a yoga teacher who knew her, and it was really nice to just have that kind of support from people. It was really nice.
Lisa: I love that you made the time and that you had the resources and the ability to do all those things, because that's so great and so ideal. And I wish there was better access for people who don't necessarily have the financial resources for it. But that's awesome that you did that.
Do you happen to remember how you heard about Stephanie? Was it through your doula? Was it through me? Was it through your prenatal yoga teacher?
It was first through my doula. It was then through the yoga instructor. And I think you may have mentioned her as well. So it was like the trifecta acupuncturist. That you noticed how tight knit our community is. Yeah, it's true. It's really true.
Mara: Oh yeah. She was referred to me by everyone and then I met her, and she has just such great energy. She really put me at ease. I think the one thing about being very prepared is it can feel very overwhelming at times, because just there's so much to do. And while I felt very prepared, I also feel like it's not really something you can fully prepare for.
So it felt like every day there was something else to do or something I haven't thought of or something I wanted. And you know, it's hard to, especially in the US, you work up until your due date or pretty close most of the time. I was planning on taking off a week before, but just like juggling work and planning to have a baby at times, got like really overwhelming.
Lisa: Anything Dylan that you would like to share about the prenatal journey, your preparing to be a parent?
I know at times I was staffed with trying to do certain things so that Mara could relax her mind and just focus on her body and preparing herself. So I was always the big reader. We picked out several books and I was like the reader of information and conveyor of information.
And you know, I was doing a lot to get the nursery ready at home. So I think as a support person and spouse, I was trying to do what I could leading up to it, to just make us as prepared as possible, and put Mara's mind at ease to, you know, for her to be able to go through that the, the physical experience of giving birth.
Mara: I actually couldn't read any of the books about when the baby actually came. So Dylan has been teaching me all of that stuff, because it just felt like one too many things.
Lisa: Sure, that makes sense. Yeah, and I love that you had that awareness to delegate and distribute those responsibilities or assignments between the two of you. It's fantastic.
Alright, anything else about pregnancy before you jump into your birth story? Or feel free to jump in whenever you're ready.
COVID
I mean, maybe you could talk about COVID. I mean, COVID was interesting. We both had COVID in January, and relatively mild cases, but Mara lost her taste.
Lisa: I'm sorry, January of
Dylan: Yeah. January of 2021. So a couple months before we got pregnant, but Mara had taste and smell issues that continued into her early pregnancy, and there can be, you know, there's nausea and morning sickness at the beginning and can affect your kind of sense of taste and smell anyway. So that was really kind of a weird moment and tough in the beginning of pregnancy. So I knew you wanted to talk about that.
Mara: Yeah. I forgot about that. I lost my smell and taste with COVID and it had come back.
Taste dysmorphia
And then right around the time I found out I was pregnant, I started suffering from taste dysmorphia, which is actually a COVID symptom, which can also actually be you know, taste issues can be a pregnancy thing. And the first trimester, I wasn't nauseous at all, but I could not eat because everything tasted like hot garbage, and I was really sensitive to smells.
He couldn't always cook in the house because the smell of the fire, I could almost smell. And it was really tough, I think for the first trimester I was eating just like plain noodles with butter, and I lost a little bit of weight. And it's interesting because I was never really sure if it was the pregnancy or the COVID, because it is an after-effect of COVID.
Mara: I went to see a doctor who told me it was probably both of them. She was, you know, COVID's so new, they don't really know. And you know, it was kind of worrisome in the beginning because you want to make sure you're nourishing your body, and I don't think eating plain pasta is really the best diet.
I feel like it's inevitable, that or like saltine crackers, like something really bland in that first trimester for a lot of people.
Morning sickness
Mara: Well, it's nice to know that other people during that trimester have morning sickness, which I didn't have, or just nausea generally. So I was a little comforted by that. But you know, it was kind of rough and throughout my pregnancy, the symptoms got better. But they continued on, and I think to this day, I'm like afraid of raw red onions.
So that was definitely an experience.
Lisa: Yeah, that's really interesting and unfortunate timing, I guess.
Mara: Yeah, everyone that had been pregnant was like, no, that's just pregnancy. I don't think so, but maybe.
Yeah, I was like, well, it just didn't strike me. And I think it had started to happen before I was pregnant, but very mildly. So I guess it's one of those things you're never really going to fully know, except just glad that it's better.
Lisa: Yes, definitely. Thanks for sharing that.
Dylan: Yeah. And then from my perspective, the three trimesters I could tell in observing Mara and being with Mara day to day, were just very, almost different experiences. There was a lot of, you know, what you could eat and how were feeling in the first trimester, but you weren't showing pregnancy symptoms or whatnot, or weren't outwardly showing to be pregnant.
And then in the second trimester, a lot of that resolved and you were feeling good and almost, I would say, feeling pretty normal. And then I don't think it was at the beginning of the third trimester, but probably three to four weeks in. So once we started getting like 10 weeks out from the birth date, you really started then having the sleep issues and you know, some heartburn issues.
So started really feeling the effects of just the child, that's getting very, very big in your uterus, and starting to kick and wake you up at night. So it was so interesting to me throughout the evolution of the pregnancy, the trimesters felt like three very distinct different experiences.
Mara: Yeah, I will say I enjoyed being pregnant, but by the end I was like, I am ready for you to come out. I felt very puffy, you know, I felt like I had eight chins and wasn't sleeping, and I was like peeing all the time. And part of you, you're like, I know this is normal, and then the other part is, I just feel kind of like, blah.
Lisa: Yeah.
Hydration Electrolyte tablets
Dylan: You know, towards the end, I think you've mentioned this in your birth class, as you were getting puffier in the last weeks we were having Mara drink hydration tablets. Dissolving hydration tablets, and drinking those. And just you would notice in terms of your ability to put on your rings and your jewelry, you know, that staying hydrated was helping with the puffiness. So not just drinking water but taking some type of what you would almost do normally for an athlete, taking these hydration tablets or whatnot was pretty helpful.
Mara: I think that helped. The water, I don't know if it was actually helping. I think I was just retaining all the water, but I stopped wearing my wedding ring.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, that's a word to the wise for pretty much everybody who's pregnant and partners.
Mara: And we tried to make sure we were still going and spending time with each other. I think that was actually really important for us, to have dinners or do something like that. Because it's both of us and you want to make sure you still have that connection.
Lisa: Yes, you know I love hearing that, yes. Good, I'm so glad you were intentional with that.
Mara: But yeah, overall, I mean, I liked being pregnant, which I think I'm lucky for.
Birth story
Lisa: Hmm. Great. Well, feel free to start your birth story in the days or weeks leading up to it or right when it started. However, you'd like to jump into that.
Mara: Yeah. So, leading up to it, it was actually interesting. I was getting busier at work. I was getting like very fed up with work. I felt like very pregnant, I didn't want to be working. I didn't feel like I had the mental capacity to keep working. I had a deadline with something, just probably like a week and a half before my due date, and I was like, okay, I'm just going to power through this. I was transitioning off everything else at work, but I kind of just had this month thing going on. Like I mentioned before, I was getting very puffy. I think up until 30 weeks, I had been exercising pretty frequently. I'd been doing the Peloton. Couple of weeks, I couldn't. I was trying to walk a lot, but then I had to pee every five seconds. So the last couple of weeks leading up to when I gave birth, I started, you know, every day I was like, maybe I'll go into labor. And that kind of happened a lot. We did the last stuff with the nursery.
And you know, I kept thinking about like the signs that pregnancy is near like that you might give birth soon, the nesting and this and that. I didn't feel like I was having any of them. I never lost my mucus plug.
And every day I was like, is it going to come out? You know, I never had Braxton Hicks, contractions, or if I did, I never realized them. So, you know, I was just kind of getting sick of being pregnant. The Sunday before I delivered, I had actually gotten a massage, and I was joking with my masseuse, and I think two days before I was about to book another appointment and I was like, let me just wait and see what happens. Work was like it was the crunch time and I was trying to deal with that, I was napping a lot. And then, I think the Monday, Tuesday before I went into labor, I was kind of like, I think I'm in labor. And he was like, really? And I was like, no, but just wishful thinking.
And then on that Wednesday, I woke up, I actually had acupuncture that day. I showered in the afternoon, and this was kind of weird, I don't wash my hair that often, but I was kind of like, I should wash my hair because it's been about seven days and it can happen at any time, and I don't want to go to the hospital with like really gross hair. So I washed my hair, I kept working. And then that evening I started having very mild cramps.
Oh, and when my acupuncturist left, I had a check the next week, because I actually missed my 37-week appointment. I just had an ultrasound instead. So I never had a cervical check or anything like that. And my acupuncturist had given me a list of questions to ask my doctor, like how dilated I am, how effaced I am, what the position of my cervix is, and so I had an appointment the next day. But when she left, she hugged me and she was like, you never know, you could give birth at any time now.
Mild cramping
Mara: So she left and around 6:30, I think I texted Dylan and I was like, I think I might be in labor. I'm having like very mild cramping. And it was very mild.
And he came home, and he was like, do really think you're in labor?
And I was like, I think it's going to come in the next couple of days, maybe I'm having like very mild cramping, and I think that's a sign it's on its way. And then that night, we ate dinner. He had gone grocery shopping actually, so we have lots of groceries, we had like a nice meal. We went out to get some cookies and it was like the cramping was getting slightly worse. Like something would stop me every now and then, and I'd be like, oh, is that a contraction? So we were thinking that it was coming in the next couple days, or like maybe the next day it would start. We remember everyone saying, if you think that you're in labor, try to go to bed. So we went to bed that night at like 11.
I could not sleep at all. I think maybe I dozed off for an hour, but then I just wasn't able to sleep. I came out on the couch and I started, you know, it was cramping, but it was more of like a contraction. And I was like, oh, I'm in very early labor, that's interesting. So I kept trying to sleep. I could not sleep.
I think I'm in labor
Mara: So I think around 3:00 or 4:00 AM I woke up Dylan and I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm in labor. I was like, should I email work? What should I do? He's like, let's just see. I didn't text my doula yet.
He kept sleeping a little bit. It wasn't painful, but it was a little starting to get uncomfortable and I wanted to sleep.
So I ended up taking a shower, which became the whole journey of my labor. I probably took like 15 or 20 showers in the next 10 or 12 hours.
Lisa: That hydrotherapy is powerful, right?
Mara: Yeah. The hand sprayer and the hot water is like my favorite thing in the entire world. So I took a shower, and I got back into bed. I woke him up again.
I think at some point I'm sure I will come up for good.
Early labor
Mara: Probably around 4 or 5 in the morning, I was like, okay, I'm definitely in very early labor. I emailed work.
Around six, I texted my doula. And the interesting thing with my contractions, they didn't really follow a pattern then, but they never really did.
So some were like 2 minutes apart, some were like 7 minutes apart, they were very short. They would be like 10, 20 seconds, and then another one, 2 minutes later, and then another one, 10 minutes later. So we were kind of timing it, but you know, I think in our minds, and everyone tells you the first labor is going to take so long.
We were planning on always going to the hospital at 3, 1, 1. Although my doula follows the thing where it's 3, 1, 1, plus either your water breaking or you're feeling pressure.
Mara: So what happened? We woke up or finally got out of bed, I guess I never slept.
He wanted to make sure that I was eating. So I checked in and stuff, at like seven 30 in the morning, and then he went and got me a bagel and a smoothie. So we got a cinnamon raisin bagel with butter and a smoothie. And the contractions were probably starting to get a little more intense, but still very, very manageable.
Mara: I always had it in my head that I wanted to labor at home as long as possible. So I was like really trying to ignore it kind of, although I don't know if I was really able to ignore it, but we were just chatting and talking and you know, what do you think's going on? Like how long do you think this is going to be?
I don't think we realized how far along I mean, I don't think it was that far along at that point, but I think the whole time we were further along than we thought. So probably around like 9:30--
Mara: and also, the other thing is, I made Dylan be in contact with my doula the whole time, because I just didn't want to really deal with anything. She later described me as a cat in a corner. And I think the one thing is I probably should have been expressing to her what was going on a little better, because the one thing is our timing didn't work out and she never really was able to get there, like during the labor, just because you know, I thought I was in very early labor.
Methods to help with contractions
So the contractions were getting a little worse. He started trying like the counter pressures and things like that.
Dylan: In the morning, throughout the morning.
Lisa: I did not like it. I did not want to be touched at all. That happens.
Mara: Yeah, he tied my belly, which our doula had showed me. We didn't like that. I tried some of the Miles Circuit, did not like it during the contraction. So it was really just like walking around the apartment, seeing what made me comfortable. I took a lot of showers, like so many showers.
Tried to take a bath at one point, but I've heard that you still can't take a very hot bath, even when you're in labor. My doula kept telling me, you can't cook the baby. So I found that I liked the shower better, but he tried to draw me a bath with very shallow water and make it hotter with the sprayer. So a lot of that.
And then the interesting thing was, you had kept saying in your class, try to sleep between contractions. And I think at the time I was like, that's crazy. Who can sleep for like seven minutes at a time? That's like the craziest thing I've ever heard.
Actually twice, podcasts kind of lulled me to sleep. So I put on a podcast, and I actually like for two hours, slept between contractions and would wake up, have a contraction and go back to sleep. Yeah, I did that.
Lisa: It's surprising, right? Yeah, it doesn't seem very logical and yet a lot of people do it.
Mara: Yeah, and it was great. I mean, it really helped, and it was really, you know, it was very calm. I don't know if I would say that I was enjoying the experience, but it was really nice being in my apartment and I was just pacing and trying different positions on the couch, moving around, just being by myself.
I had a playlist, which I never put on. I texted my friend at one point. I think I was still checking work emails out of habit. All this stuff was kind of going on, and so it felt like it was going to be awhile.
Mara: And I think around like noon, I looked at Dylan and I was like, God, what if this is still going on at midnight tonight? Because I really didn't want an epidural or anything like that. But I was like, well, if I haven't slept in like 30 hours, I think there's going to be a point where I might want one, just to get some sleep. So that was at like 12.
Dylan: Should we jump ahead and just to tell people so that they understand our timeframe, tell them what time we gave birth? So people understand when we're talking about noon.
Mara: So I delivered at 4:20 PM that afternoon. So at noon, we were thinking we were going to still be in labor, like 12 hours later.
Dylan: Yeah, it was, it was between 11 and noon, and you were saying, if this is still going on in 12 hours, I don't know how I'm going to deal with it. We still had that mentality where we thought we were in very early labor.
I was texting the doula and communicating that the contractions were kind of jumping all over the place still. They were maybe 30 seconds apart. We were trying to time them.
Mara: 30 seconds long.
Dylan: Sorry, 30 seconds long, but they would be, one would be four minutes apart, one would be eight minutes apart, one would be six. So they really didn't follow that type of consistent pattern. And then, yeah, I would say it's probably sometime a little after noon that it started picking up in intensity. One thing that I observed from the shower that she found so beneficial, is when I was trying to time the contractions, she said, oh, I want to take a shower. And I said, well, I'll just come sit in there, and I'll time the contractions.
She was like, well, I won't be able to tell you right when they start. So the shower was so beneficial to Mara that she didn't necessarily even mark the beginning and the end of the contractions that well, because the shower was helping her cope so much. So that was really effective for Mara.
Mara: Yeah, the shower was great.
We call hydrotherapy, nature's epidural. Yeah, it's powerful.
Mara: I came home and I had, because I kept getting new towels, there were like towels all over my [?]. Yeah, the shower was really great, and it made me think, it was nice to be in my shower, you know. Part of me wonders, like had I gone to the hospital sooner, what would my experience have been like?
Because I didn't really labor at the hospital at all. And you know, Alexandra Cohen's supposed to be really nice and I was curious what it was, but then I was like, I really enjoyed, it's like my shower and my space, and I got to come out and put on like a new pair of pajamas, a new t-shirt, it felt very good to be in my space.
And you know, kind of jumping ahead, but I did kind of wish I went a little sooner to because we get to the end, you'll-- you know, I wish I'd made it the hospital earlier. But it's interesting because I'll never really know.
Mara: Everything could have changed if I'd gone to the hospital sooner, especially in December. I've heard all the hospitals have been so busy. I've heard about people waiting in the waiting room and, the one thing I really did not want to do while I was in labor, was stay still. And I know that when you're in triage, you have to wait for like 10, 20 minutes. And I don't know how that would have gone for me to have to stay still. Other than when I was napping, the last thing I wanted to do was not move, or you know, I was switching positions constantly, so, yeah, that was really.
Lisa: You know, what's funny is, you were talking about the crowded hospitals. As we are recording this right now, one of the doulas in my collective is with a client. They've been stuck in triage at Methodist for hours and hours and hours in labor. And I hope they've gotten a room by now, but I don't know, because it's just, there's no room. There are no beds available.
Mara: Yeah, it's crazy.
Lisa: Ugh! Yeah, and triage is so cramped and not comfortable, and often not even private. So yay for laboring at home.
Mara: Yeah, it's really great. And Dylan followed me around the apartment with the water. He kept trying to get me to eat more and he was really great. And I didn't want to be touched but he would do what I needed when I wanted, and sometimes I'd want to talk and sometimes I wouldn't.
But I think "cat in the corner" is really a good way to describe what was going on. But so then, this is actually funny. I went through my text messages after to put together the timeline and I think at like 10:30, I texted my best friend and I was like, hey, pretty sure I'm in labor, don't text me back, trying to take a nap.
And then at like 12:15, I texted her and I was like, or 12:30 and I was like, holy hell! And I think around 12:30 or 1:00, things started to get a little more intense, where I felt them more, and I started kind of hitting the wall during a contraction, and just making a noise.
I think you mentioned that you had been like on a ball kind of doing something like that. I found that to be very helpful. But I still, at that point, didn't think I was, I still thought I was in early labor. I thought I was at like the later end of early labor, because it's still not like they were so unbearable. I guess I couldn't really talk through the contraction, but I didn't really try.
And we were still timing them, and they were getting closer to a minute. They were like 40 seconds, and maybe three to four minutes apart. So we were probably like, oh, this is moving along. Let's have the doula come here in the next hour, and then we'll head out from there.
And that was probably like, we timed them for 40 minutes and then I took a shower, and he was timing them, and I could kind of feel them a little better that time.
So I could definitely tell things were moving along, you know. And it's so funny because I read so much about how labor progresses, that when I went back and looked at it, I was like, oh, maybe I should have known I was moving out of early labor, but it just felt so manageable to me.
Mara: And like some people, I was expecting it to be so unbearable that I just was like, no, this can't really be it because while it was uncomfortable, like the hitting the wall helped it, it's still very doable. I think I have a really high pain tolerance too, for what that's worth.
Lisa: Well, and also, I think, my perception of you is that your mindset is one of trust in this process and laying such a great foundation for things to go as well as possible, that there was likely a lot less tension in your body. That also was helpful. That's just a theory.
Mara: No, you're probably right. I was very relaxed, I think.
Lisa: All those massages and acupuncture and all of that. Yeah, it's great.
Mara: Yeah, it was great leading up. And he was rubbing my feet every night and really doing everything he could around the house. So I think I was like in a good mindset.
And the thing about labor is, I think a lot of it's what you hear about it. And the one person that I've really had talked to me about giving birth or the first person, is my stepmom who gave birth at home and describes it as the most wonderful experience of her life. Even like the ring of fire and the crowning, she's like, it's not the best, but it's totally fine.
And she just had this experience. And so even when I've had other people be like, I can't believe you wouldn't want an epidural, that was the most important thing to me. She's the first person that's ever really shared an experience, and so that's always been ingrained in my mind. So I wasn't quite ready to go the home birth route, but I definitely was like, oh, it's very natural, of course I can do this. So that was really what was going on in my head. After my last shower, things were definitely getting more intense and I think Anna was asking Dylan, does she want to go to the hospital? Is she good? And I was like, no, I'm still good. He made me bone broth, which I threw up.
And I was kind of like, I think we'll probably go soon. Let's gather all of our last-minute items and things like that. He had put the car seat in the car earlier. In retrospect, we probably should have also put our stuff in the car earlier, but you always think that once you're ready to go, you never think you're going to be like rushing out the door.
And then Anna told us, “Okay, next she's either going to feel pressure, or her water break, you should head out then."
Water broke
Mara: So then my water broke and when I went to pee, it was like just a faucet of water coming out. I was like, oh, my water broke, and I lost my mucus plug. And then, we probably should have left immediately that second, although that's not never really what you think.
So we were like, okay, let's get ready to go. He actually hopped in and took a quick shower. I started to gather my last-minute things. And then, between my water breaking and like six minutes later, everything just got so much more intense.
Trying to leave home
I kept trying to go, I had Depends. So I kept putting those on and they got, yeah, got a lot messier, and I kept trying to get ready to go, but just could not. I would put on shorts to leave and then I would just be like, no, I want to go sit on the toilet.
Mara: And then in my mind I was like, oh, I think I'm further along than I think. I was like, okay, we gotta go, we gotta go. Let's go. And he's gathering the stuff. And then I'm like, hold on, and I'm running and just sitting on the toilet. Your water broke a little after 2:30, between 2:30 and 2:45.
We had already told the doula come on when you're ready and we'll go ahead and probably head out soon thereafter. Our doula, I think, was picking her child off from school, dropping her off with a caretaker and then coming over. So she was going to be here within an hour and then your water broke, and we were like, okay, should we just go right now? And the doula was about 30 minutes away, and we were getting the stuff together anyway.
Dylan: We were getting the stuff ready to go in the car. And we were like, we would think it would be helpful to have our doula with us, so let's wait and we'll go right when she gets here.
And I think we were kind of realizing in that moment, yeah, you're much further along. The water broke and then things just became, you know, infinitely more intense and we were kind of, oh, we need to go, but it felt hard for you to go and get out of the house.
And we were also like, okay, our doula's going to be here in 30 minutes, we'll leave right then. And so we were kind of caught in the middle in that moment. I think we actually ended up taking all the stuff down. I’m carrying like three bags. So we should've put one of the bags in the car earlier in the morning, but I'm carrying three bags and we went down and got in the car as the doula was coming.
And we waited in the car for two minutes and then she just hopped in the car, and we went. So we became rushed towards the end where maybe we could have recognized a little earlier.
Mara: Yeah, have your stuff in the car. That's the one thing. You know, and hindsight's 20/20 so in hindsight I'm like, oh, I should have left then, I should have been more ready to go, but you never really think it's just not how anyone explains early labor.
My doctor was like, "you come in at 3, 1, 1, if you really don't want any interventions. You're probably going to come in too soon anyway." No one tells you like 3, 1, 1, but then get out of the house immediately.
Lisa: Yeah, because it is less common.
Mara: Yeah. And I actually spoke to someone else after. I wonder if because I was coping so well, I wasn't measuring my contractions correctly, wasn't necessarily feeling the beginning or the end because she was like, mine never reached a minute either. But she got to the hospital sooner and said when they were actually watching them, that she was really only catching the peak of them. But you know, we'll never really know.
Lisa: That makes sense because there is that curve and on the outer ends, it's not as intense, not anywhere near as intense. So that makes a lot of sense. Interesting. Plus, our bodies are not robots. We don't always behave like a textbook. So there is going to be a large range of normal. And one of the things I'm constantly trying to think, how can I do differently as an educator. There is somewhat of a need to quantify things, but then I also have to couch it with you know, a huge range of normal, birth is not linear, and like this is just a broad way to look at it. It's some kind of guidelines so you have something to start with, but it's really tricky because it's an organic process.
So I guess the last hour before my water broke, it had gotten more intense. And so looking back on it, I should have left then. But it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't that bad. I was like, oh, I'm moving into it.
Mara: But I will say, once my water broke, the contractions were like, he spoke to me in the middle of one, not realizing, and I nearly like bit his head off. So there was like this marked difference after my water broke and stuff got more intense. And at that point I did start to get a little panicky, because I very quickly realized I was like, sitting on the toilet and not being able to leave and kind of like starting to feel this pressure, I was like, oh shit. You know, I think that this is not where I think I am. So we got down to the car, and like he said, we were waiting for the doula. I was kind of like, no, we have to go, but by the time we actually got in the car, she was there anyway. I left the house, you know, this is the beginning of December in sweatpants, I think a sports bra and a blanket wrapped around me and slippers. It was really intense. I had a blanket. I think I threw the blanket on the street at one point, got in the car, kept trying to find a position. And I think at this point, the doula got in the car, and she was rubbing my back. And I was like, I just want to run out of the car and like pull my pants down. I feel like I have to pee, I can't explain. And she's rubbing my back, and I was like, can I pee? And she's like, I mean, sure, but it's not even pee, it's just like fluid actually. She's rubbing my back.
It's 3:30 in Brooklyn and so we have to get to the Upper East Side. When we leave, it's a 40-minute drive. We drive for 15 minutes, it's a 45-minute drive. So the traffic's getting worse. And I think at this point, I'm like, I think I'm pushing, I think that there's a child that's about to come out.
Mara: My doula's telling me.
Dylan: Blow out the birthday candles. Blow out the birthday candles instead of holding it in and pushing.
Mara: Yeah, having her in the car was invaluable. I don't know what would have happened if him and I had left. Because like I said, hindsight, I'm looking at it like, well, what if I left, right when my water broke? And then I was like, okay, well then that would have been happening when we were on the FDR drive. Her being there, even if she had been on the phone, it's not the same thing. So she's like in there, you know, I'm freaking out. I was like, I'm probably giving birth. She's like, no, feel it, there's no head.
Take the detour
Mara: She's like, okay, I think we're probably fine to make it. And then suddenly, I think I kicked the window or just grabbed something.
She's like, no, I think we need to go to the detour. Like we can go to Lower Manhattan or Methodist. She named some other hospitals. She was like, well, let's not go there. And we're on Atlantic, like right by the Barclay Center. Yeah, and she was just like, I think we need to go to Methodist, make a left. And he just made an illegal left.
Dylan: We got to Methodist in like eight minutes from that left-turn detour, and you gave birth like 20 minutes from when we pulled up at the curb.
Mara: Yeah, and those eight minutes were actually awful. I was like, are we there? What's going on? I'm like, no one's taking me seriously, I'm going to give birth in the car.
And Anna was like, when you get out, you're going to feel this intense pressure, we're going to get you a wheelchair.
Arrival at the alternative hospital
Mara: So we get to Methodist, I'm like the whole time, are we there? How much longer? I'm pretty sure right now that I'm pushing, or that my body is pushing.
I'm trying not to, but I’m like on the floor, I'm on the thing. She gets me in a wheelchair. I looked deranged, you know, I'm like wrapped in a blanket, pregnant. I don't even think I had my slippers on, I think I had them in my hand and like in a sports bra. It's cold out.
She tells him where to quickly park. And she knows the hospital. So she gets me there immediately, goes right past the security guard, because she's like, she's pushing, she's in labor, we have to go up. Gets me into the elevator. Some doctor in there is like, good luck.
We get to reception and she's like, she's pushing, she's about to have a baby. This isn't where we planned on delivering. They're like, oh, well we don't have any beds available in triage right now. And I was like, I'm pushing. I'm going to have a baby right here.
Waiting for triage
I don't think they thought I was serious or thought that I was as far along as I was saying, I was. And so they're like, okay, do you have her ID? Anna's giving them my ID and insurance card and you know, it's kind of a wave. So for a minute I'm calm, and I'm like, okay, this is happening. So they asked me if I was a smoker.
Lisa: Stop asking her questions. Seriously.
Mara: Yeah. And I'm very exhausted at this point almost. And I'm trying to remain calm and they're like, have you ever been a smoker?
I was like, yeah, like a really long f**king time ago. I was like, I'm pushing. And so they're like, okay, I don't know what's going on.
Found a bed
Mara: They find a bed; they wheel me into triage. I don't even think the bed has the thing on it. I don't remember what this looks like. They get me on the bed. My doula was like, it was like a record. They were setting everything up and you were hopping on. They start hooking me up to something and someone does a cervical check and they're like, oh, she's fully dilated. And I was like, no shit.
Lisa: Thanks for telling me.
Mara: Yeah, and I was like, gee, I guess did you think I was joking?
So they find me a delivery room really quickly, because at first, they said they had none. They wheel me into a room.
I get on the thing; they hooked me up to check my blood pressure. He shows up while that's going on. He takes out my birth plan to give to them. And he's like, she doesn't want any interventions, she doesn't want this.
Mara: And they're like, you couldn't have an intervention right now if you begged us for one. They're like she's in active labor. So I was there and not with my doctor, you're there with just the hospital doctor.
Pushing
Mara: So the one thing, they get me on the bed and they're like, okay, you're ready to push, like whatever, it's all of them starting to coach me.
And Dylan's like, she doesn't want to push on her back. She doesn't want coached pushing. He's trying to reason with or talk to them.
At this point, and this is the one thing I don't love, I had stayed calm the whole time. At this point, I am in like full blown panic, or feel very stressed. So I'm not even really fighting the pushing on my back. He does get them to kind of stop with the coached pushing,
Dylan: I mean, you pushed on your side.
Mara: Yeah. I was like, no, I don't want to push on my back. I don't think I could have moved positions drastically at that point anyway, though. I think I'd been pushing in the car, and it was very close to the end.
I pushed on my side a little bit, thanks to the nurse. And then, they did kind of do the bear-down pushing, which isn't what I had wanted. Although the interesting thing is, during all of my preparation, the pushing is the one thing I hadn't thought about as much.
So you know, everyone tells you it's natural and it'll happen, but I wasn't really sure like what that would feel like. So I actually didn't mind the coached pushing as much. You know, it felt natural to do that, and I kept what you said in mind, I didn't do it for 10 seconds, I just did it like for as long as it felt right. And I had read, like, you kind of just want your pelvic floor to get out of the way. So that was going on, I pushed on my side and then, you know, they're like, when he crowns, we're going to have you slow down. This is all happening really quickly. We got to crowning probably like seven minutes after.
Mara: But so they, you know, coach pushing, the doctor I think, he like stretching my vagina, I'm pretty sure.
Lisa: Perineal massage, yeah.
He is born
Mara: Yeah, which felt really weird, but it's all happening so quickly. And then he crowns, my doula puts vitamin E oil on his head. They told me to slow down, but I was like I don't know, I pushed pretty quickly, and he was born, like I said, like 20 minutes after we got to the curb.
So I don't even know how long I was like pushing for like that, probably seven minutes max. They did hook me up to the hep-lock and they gave me IV fluids, which I hadn't wanted.
But honestly, at this point, I don't think it really affected the birth much, because he was born like five minutes later. I will say, showing up at a hospital that is not yours, in a state like that, I didn't really have the will to argue with them, but also, I think they're covering their ass, how they see it.
They don't know what I've been doing, they don't know if I'm dehydrated, they don't know what's going on. I just show up at their hospital telling them that I'm like pushing a baby out. So we do that, he gets delivered, we do skin to skin.
Tearing
Mara: I did end up, I had a first degree, a second degree and a third-degree tear, although it was very mild.
And I think if they had never told me I had a third-degree tear, I wouldn't know. It really wasn't and even now, it hasn't been painful, and the doctor kept referring to it as a minor third-degree tear, which kind of makes no sense.
Lisa: Right, because that's like the opposite of the definition of a third or fourth. Yeah.
Mara: I think he was like, it almost isn't a third-degree tear, and I was like, okay.
But it's actually interesting, because I'm in the stirrups, the baby's on me, they're stitching me up and I'm like, that hurt. That's annoying. They're like, okay, do you want more like numbing stuff, which actually hurts more? And then they actually said this to me, it almost would have been better if you didn't have the second numbing stuff shot. You know, they gave me the Pitocin to deliver the placenta. I was kind of like, I'd rather a shot.
They're like, it's just standard procedure. The doctor actually, and I didn't argue with him because I was pushing, but when I said I didn't want to push on the back and I was on the side, he's like, okay, for the final push, we're going to move you on your back because that's the safest way to deliver, you have to do this. And I was like, that's not true.
Lisa: Nope. So many OBs say that. They feel like it's safest because that's they were trained.
Mara: Yeah. So that's the one thing I didn't love because I had spoken to my doctor before and I was like, can I push however I want, I don't want coached pushing. She's like, you can push wherever you want, she's like, I've caught babies in all sorts of positions.
She's like, I don't do the coached pushing, but I do just check to make sure you're actually pushing. Although who knows if I'd actually ended up there, what it would have been like, because my OB wasn't even on call that day. My doula later told me that she has very rarely seen in a hospital setting, someone not at the end, end up on their back. So, I think that's just part of it.
But so I'm doing the skin-to-skin. They're doing all this stuff. They break the bed, I didn't realize this, so I'm like in the stirrups and my legs are kind of shaking a little bit at that point and she was like, Yeah, you can put your legs down once I've put the bed back together.
I was like, what?
She's like, there's nothing below your butt. And then there's no more bed. I was like, what?
She's like, yeah, they like literally break the bed. So they stitched me up. We did a lot of skin-to-skin. They did all this stuff while he was on me.
She brought me more water. He wouldn't latch, you know, we tried, he was on me. He just had no interest in my breasts. So we do that. Eventually, I think it was way more than an hour, it's the one plus side of the hospitals being really busy. They left me and him alone for a very long time, which was great. And the stuff's all on him and it's like getting absorbed.
And at this point it's like kind of funny, we're like, oh, wow, no one knows I'm in labor. None of our family knows, although I don't think I was going to tell them anyway.
Took the baby away
Mara: They eventually take him and do some of the stuff. Dylan goes with him. I get a nurse to help me pee. I am shocked. There's like lots of blood in your first pee. And the first nurse I had was great, she sprays me down. And I think in my head, I was like, I'm just going to be able to hop out of the bed and go to the bathroom. And they're like, no, you need someone to help you, and let me put this stuff down.
I'm like, I don't need that. And then I was like, oh, there's like a lot of blood. I was like, wow, like shocked. I get back in the bed and my doula orders me an Italian sub, which is like, I said, I'm planning on having a bagel with lox for my first meal, but it was like a little later in the day, so I had an Italian sub.
Requested a private room
Mara: They do all that. I immediately had Dylan go to request a private room because that was really important to me, which we got.
So I gave birth at 4:20. They're so busy at hospitals, they're like, oh, we're going to take you up around 8:30. I think I didn't go up until 10:30.
Mara: And you know, you're tired, you're like, I want to get out of where I am and settle in.
Third-degree tear perception
Mara: This is the thing that kind of annoyed me, the last nurse that took me up was like, do you want an ice pack? I was like, oh, sure, you know, do you think so? And she's like, girl, you have like a third-degree tear, like you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I think that that kind of, you know, I wasn't experiencing it being that painful or it being that extreme. And I wish she'd never said that, because then I kind of went down this rabbit hole, like what's a third degree tear? Am I going to have like poop problems forever? You know, and my dad's a psychoanalyst and I've spoken to him after, and he's like, you shouldn't let the name of something change your experience with it. So if you're not experiencing it like that, you shouldn't start to think of it like that.
And honestly, since then I feel fine. I mean, not that I wasn't a little sore afterwards, but I wasn't sorer than I ever expected. I've been walking a lot, like I feel fine.
Wasn't latching
Mara: But so we went up to the room, he still wasn't latching. We had a private room, you know, you're kind of in a daze. We set up, we go to bed, we're there. So he didn't actually end up latching for like four or five days after. While we're there, he was a little jaundiced and so he ended up under the lights for a night. And we stayed up with him, or Dylan stayed up with him the whole time because the little eye mask kept slipping off his eyes. And you know, you just have this feeling like you really want to protect someone.
Reflections on the birth
Mara: And right after it, I felt a little down about how the experience ended. It's like on the one hand, I had this great experience laboring at home the entire time. On the other hand, I'm like, well, but then I ended up like putting myself in this crazy situation, almost delivering in the car.
I kind of like, felt like I hyper-fixated so much on not getting to the hospital too early and not having any epidural or getting induced, that I stayed at home too long and missed some very obvious signs.
Lactation
Mara: But I will say that after he ended up latching, like two days after we came home, I mean, this is not correct at all, but we had been cup feeding him, which is fine when they only want 20 milliliters. It is not fine when you need to start feeding them more or it's not that it's not fine, but it's hard. And you know, I was pumping to make sure my milk was coming in, but we were supplementing with formula a little bit, because he was starting, he was still fine, but had gotten close to the edge of like how much weight to lose.
So we took him home, and we're cup feeding, I'm pumping, we rented a hospital grade pump and all that stuff. We'd seen lactation consultants there. You know, we were trying to schedule one to come to our house on Tuesday.
So I delivered on Wednesday. Friday, we went home. Saturday, we went to the pediatrician. Sunday night, it's just, it's worrisome that he's not latching and all this stuff. And I'm like, am I going to have to just pump and feed him? Because you know, cleaning a breast pump is a lot of pieces. So I think Monday morning, and I'm starting to get worried about him eating, I'm like, I just have to give him a bottle of breast milk. He's not getting enough. He's not taking the cup right. So I give him a bottle and he takes a nap and then my doula comes over later and then he latches. So in my mind, I decided that he latched because I gave him a bottle. That's probably not correct, but she was like, he's just not doing the suck swallow, he's not even like trying to suck. I think the bottle helped. Maybe not.
Yeah. Sometimes it can. I mean one possible reason can be for some babies, it can calm them down enough to just get a little nourishment, to then be more relaxed, to help them be able to latch. I mean, that's one of a number of possible explanations. Yeah, I just thought he couldn't figure out how to do it. And then the bottle kind of helped him.
Lisa: Maybe so.
Mara: But he latched, and then it's interesting, because ever since he latched and has been feeding, my feelings about the birth have been a little bit different. Because I think really, you just want him to be okay.
Yeah, so now we have a little baby. He's been feeding My nipple started to hurt, like after a week of breastfeeding and I realized I probably didn't have the best latch. I had a lactation consultant come. She was great, helping him latch and all that.
Yeah. And I don't think I ever thought it was going to be easy. I think I knew how hard it was going to be. And it's just crazy how much every day has really just been a different adventure, like day to day. Like, you know, one day, he's up every two hours and I'm like feeling a little crazed and then one night he's like sleeping for four hours at a time.
Being a mom
He's very cute and it's really been just this like overwhelming. I was curious, I feel like I get so in my head, with what's it like to be a mom. And it's just come to me at least like very natural. And it's fun, you know, I'm not working, so it's my only job. You know, every day it's something else. I had one night at 4:30 in the morning where he sh*t on our walls and then it dripped behind the dresser, which was zip tied to the wall, you know?
Lisa: Right. Yep, safety.
Mara: And I was like, oh my God. I was like, do I leave it? I have to cut the zip tie. Should I wake up Dylan? So we like wake up Dylan, and there's like sh*t dripping down our wall.
And he's like, yeah, no, that's not something you leave Mara. And I was like, okay, he's peed on himself so many times, it's kind of funny.
Lisa: Yeah, it's good you can keep your sense of humor. That's important. Really important.
Mara: I texted my friends, I was like, this is both like the funniest thing I've ever seen, and also, I'm losing my mind, my son just like shat behind my dresser. Like, I didn't know that was possible.
He once managed to pee out of his diaper on me, but the way I was holding him, I was like, I don't even understand how you just peed on me.
He doesn't like to be swaddled, but the thing is his arm's getting out, wakes him up, so we have been like putting him in a sleep sack at night. I believe very much that the free movements are very good for them, so I'm not trying to bind him too much, but you know, I think at night it helps him.
And it's just been really interesting, because now every day I'm like, is he doing enough tummy time? Is he doing this? But then on the other hand, I'm like, eh, kids develop. It's this balancing thing between you're like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing, and the same with birth, but he's a human being. You know, he's going to develop whether or not he does like 20 minutes of tummy time a day or not, you know?
Lisa: Yes, Yes, absolutely.
Mara: He lifts his head and he's been generally pretty cheery although right now, you know, we've gone through a couple of cluster-feeding things.
Community is helpful
Mara: The one thing that's been really nice, I'm a part of Park Slope Parents, and we have a chat going on. And again, that community of having other people be like, my kid won't sleep unless we hold them the whole time. Like, I'm having trouble breastfeeding, is this normal for you? Is this normal for you? It's nice to know that all of these things are normal, other people are experiencing other things that I'm not, and I'm like, oh, at least I don't have that problem. And just having other people text you at like 3:30 in the morning, you're like, oh, you know, it's, it's not just me.
Lisa: I'm not the only one awake. Yes. Yeah. That is invaluable. I'm so glad you found that community.
Parental leave
Mara: And then because of when I delivered, Dylan took two weeks of vacation. And then it was that slow time between Christmas and New Year's. So he was really hands-on the first like three weeks, four weeks. And now he's back at work, but he's working from home, so it's a nice transition for me.
I have a decent amount of leave and so does he, so we're actually staggering them and overlapping a month. Although there was a moment recently where I was like, it would have been nice for us to take them at the same time.
Lisa: Yeah, that's tricky.
Mara: Yeah, because we have so much time, we'll be able to get to October, with one of us being there. And I think that's worth it more than doing it together and at June us both having to go back.
Lisa: Yeah.
Mara: Yeah.
Lisa: Oh, I'm so glad to hear you have such nice leave, because so many people don't.
Mara: I know, and the thing is I actually, I get 16 weeks and I don't even feel like that's enough. I'm planning on taking extra time unpaid if I can, which again is something I'm very fortunate to be able to do. Most people can't take an extra 10 weeks unpaid or even like the 16 weeks isn't at full pay.
And it's just, you know, it's ridiculous because in my mind, the thought of even going back in mid-April is unfathomable. Like, you know, he's learning, he's new to the world, and especially during COVID, you might not want to put your child in daycare or have a nanny come or be able to do that.
And it's just, I feel very fortunate, and at the same time, I don't even think it's enough. So I can't like, you know, it's ridiculous.
Lisa: You're right. So anyone who's listening, if you have inclination, if and when you have capacity, I know that in pregnancy and new parenthood, it's harder to do this kind of thing, but we need more people advocating for change for better leave policies in our country, in our state and our city. All that. Yeah.
More support for parents
Mara: And better resources. I looked into a postpartum doula who I might hire, but what I liked about her is she does, she donates a portion, especially a doula. I don't think that that's a luxury. I think it's something that everyone should have access to, and you know, we do well, so we were fortunate that we were able to do all of this, but you know, you hear other stories and especially even delivering with someone who's not your doctor. You know, the medical system is just so, and I think it's the same everywhere, but it's not like a very personalized level of care anywhere, I think. I think that that's, especially during pregnancy, is like really a little sad.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. There's a book that just was coming to mind, I don't know if you're familiar with a book called, The Big Letdown. It is an excellent book. It's largely about breastfeeding, but it takes a deep dive into the many ways that our culture does not support parents and growing families. And talks about leave and the history and comparing to other cultures and other countries that are doing so much better than us, and the ways that we need to better support families, in the ways that you're talking about doula support, lactation support, so many things.
It's an excellent, excellent book, highly recommended. I will definitely link to it in the show notes for this episode.
Mara: Yeah. Even my lactation consultant was saying, she's worked in hospitals, and she's worked in China and she's like, the thing that I don't love here, especially in the hospital, there's no continuity of care. So you see a lactation consultant in the hospital, but they don't follow up with you necessarily.
She's like, that's why I actually like this private work better, because you know, she'd like text me pictures, texts me videos, let me know if you want me to come again. We had her come a second time. It's really, it's nice. And it's just, you know, it's important. Yeah, maybe you can share that lactation consultant's name with me for the show notes and I can include that.
Yeah, I'll let you know. I cannot pronounce her name, so I'm not going to try to it. It's something Hawkins, but she's great.
Lisa: It's okay. You can send it to me, and I'll include it in the show notes.
Any final insights?
Lisa: Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this. Are there any final thoughts, anything that you haven't gotten to share that you were hoping to share, or just any final insights, wisdom for people who are listening, who are maybe expecting a baby or are new parents?
Mara: You know, I would just say, I think birth is a beautiful thing and I think that it's very natural. Even if you choose to get an epidural or anything like that. I think it's a wonderful experience. I think that it's nice to embrace it, even when you're in like the downfalls of pregnancy and you feel puffy and you're like, oh my God, like, this is awful, I just want this to end. Or I just want to give birth, it really is, just an amazing thing.
But it's definitely a process, and I think the ups and downs are normal. And I think knowing that and having support to the extent you can, is really important. And I just think that having a kid, you need to keep a good sense of humor and try to stay off of Google a little bit.
You know, my friend actually said this to me and I kind of wish I listened to her, she's like, I had to choose just two sources that I would get information from and tune everything else out. You can Google something and you can get like 12 different answers, and you don't know, and it's not going to answer your exact question and you're going to be like, am I doing something wrong?
Lisa: Really anxiety-producing.
Mara: Yeah, there is no right answer, and your kid is going to thrive and develop. And like I think trusting yourself is very important, and I think that's something that took me like a couple of weeks to learn, but I think since I started kind of trusting my instinct, things have been going a little smoother. And it's hard to have a newborn, but it's also really fun.
Lisa: Yeah. And we can always remind ourselves in those moments that we can't cherish, that it's temporary. It will pass. It's not always going to be as intense as it is right now. And then you'll also kind of miss it a little bit.
Mara: That's what everyone says.
Lisa: Right.
Mara: Going to miss it. It's like how everyone tells you when you're pregnant. And you're like, oh, I'm so tired. And they're like, oh, you don't know tired yet. Everyone was telling me that when I was pregnant, and it was irritating me so much. They're like, you're never going to sleep again.
And now I have a newborn and I'm like, yeah, they were right, but they still didn't need to say that.
Lisa: Right, yeah, agreed. Like, how is it helpful? I guess they're trying to help people have perspective, but like how is that really helpful? Yeah.
Mara: Yeah. The only other thing I'll say is, everyone keeps telling me to nap when the baby naps. I am not a good napper. If you can nap when your baby naps, that's amazing. If you can't, it will catch up to you. You'll figure it out, not everyone's the same.
Lisa: Sure, absolutely.
Mara: Don't feel bad that you can't nap on demand, but if you can, do it.
Lisa: Yes. I like that. Adjusted recommendations, great.
Mara: Yeah.
Lisa: Well, thank you so much, Mara. It's been wonderful to see you and Dylan and baby. What a treat it's been, and yeah, I think this story is going to be really valuable for people listening to just get a broader sense of the huge range of normal and you know, how things can go.
Mara: My next one, I will say, if I have a second child, I am having a home birth.
Lisa: I think that's a good idea.
Mara: A, because you know how quickly it'll go and B like, it's not for everyone, but it clearly would have worked well for me. And leaving the house was the worst thing that I had to do that day. So home birth for me next time.
Lisa: It sounds like a good plan.
Mara: Much to my step-mom's happiness.
Lisa: Yes.
I told you.
Lisa: Yeah. Well, like you said earlier, you can't know what you don't know until you know it, you know? And it's hard to predict how your first labor, well, any labor really for that matter, but especially the first one. So, yeah, great.
Well, congratulations again, and I hope to see you once it's safe. I hope to see you at a reunion.
Mara: Yeah, absolutely.
Lisa: With your sweet baby.
Mara: Your class was great too. I should actually say that.
Lisa: Oh, thank you, that means a lot to hear. Appreciate it. All right. Well, stay safe and be well, and I'll talk to you soon.
Mara: Thank you, bye.
Lisa: Bye.