As a person working in both the wellness and fashion fields, Nadia had intentionally pursued a healthy, fit lifestyle with an active meditation and breathwork practice. However, she discovered she had to ease up on those expectations in pregnancy and be gentle with herself. Early on in her pregnancy and at the recommendation of a friend, she hired both a doula and switched from working with an OB to a hospital midwife practice to feel more nurtured and heard. Soon after graduating from birth class and before her due date, she’s surprised to go into labor. Everyone around her encourages her to rest and relax thinking she probably had a long time ahead of her. However, for Nadia labor progressed unusually quickly. She shares very specific ways that her doula helped keep her and her husband calm, how her doula pivoted and did some quick, smart thinking when it became necessary to switch hospital destinations, and how she strongly advocated for her and her husband to have the best birth possible, including being sure Nadia’s partner didn’t miss the birth!
Resources:
Sarah Pancake (NYC birth doula), spancake@earthlink.net (347) 623-2646 (also praised in Episode 5)
Dance Body workouts @dancebody
Sponsor links:
East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
Episode Topics:
Tough 1st trimester, learning to surrender
Reading lots and taking class
Choosing midwives
Hiring a doula around 9 weeks
Be easy on yourself in pregnancy
Going into labor
Going to midwife and feeling some cramps, midwife encourages her to ignore it and spend time with friends
Taking a walk with husband Matt, feeling heartburn and feeling tired
By midnight, she woke up feeling heavy period cramps
Wakes Matt, tries to go back to sleep, wakes 10 minutes later
Feels intense rectal pressure
Texts doula Sarah - 10-12 apart contractions, 15 seconds long
Sarah tells her to rest as much as she can, breathe through it and don’t time contractions, text her if they get stronger (which they do)
Notices bloody show around 2am and things get super intense
Using heat pad on her back, lying down with pillows
Doula says to try a shower - Matt brings ball into shower and she doesn’t like it
Timing contractions, around 2:30 - 2 min apart, 1 min contractions
Doula books it to them in 15 minutes, Nadia making primal animal sounds
Sarah arrives in between 2 contractions and Nadia’s on couch feeling urge to push
Midwife says to come to Mt Sinai West, but Sarah says it’s too far as the bag of waters is bulging and baby will be born soon
They call 911 but Sarah advocates to go to NYU, where she knows doulas are allowed in
Get to NYU at 4:11, gave birth at 4:27am
Sarah advocating for them to skip to triage
Going up to the 6th floor
Nurse trying to get Matt to take a Covid test and do lots of paperwork, Sarah explaining the baby was about to be born
Actually wanting to push on her back
Pushing feeling easier to cope with somehow than transition
Moment of birth feeling unbelievable relief
Giving informed consent for pitocin in 3rd stage
1st degree tear, 5 stitches, feeling herself pretty quickly
Nadia’s breathwork expertise - centered around emotional release and tips for pregnant breathwork
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Hi, Nadia. It's so good to see you today.
Nadia: Hi, Lisa. Very excited to see you, virtually.
Lisa: Nadia. Yeah. Again, virtually I do hope we can meet in person some day.
Nadia: I know, I know.
Lisa: So, Nadia took my birth class during the pandemic virtually. And so here we are again on Zoom, a familiar place for so many of us.
Nadia: I know.
Lisa: So would you just take a minute to introduce yourself and just share where you are in your parenting journey and just any basics you'd like to share with us?
Nadia: So my name is Nadia Josse. I currently live in Brooklyn and I gave birth to a little girl named Palona on June 24th. And I work in fashion, but also on the side, I also see clients where I teach breath work. It's been about like over a year, so I do groups and individual clients. So yeah, so I'm still in the newborn phase which a lot of my friends called the Twilight Zone, which is really, nothing. There is no sense of time, sense of day, no weekends. I don't even know where you know what date we are, but it's beautiful. It's amazing. It's a, definitely a ride. So yeah.
Lisa: Yes and aren't you at the six week mark today?
Nadia: I'm at the six week mark today.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. So have you gone back for your six week appointment yet? Or is that coming?
Nadia: I'm going tomorrow morning. I'm very excited to have the okay for all the things postpartum also including exercise, which I feel like is so needed sometimes to get a little blood pumping and a little endorphin boost,
Lisa: Absolutely.
Nadia: So yeah. Yeah.
Lisa: Great. Well, I hope that goes well.
Nadia: Thank you.
Lisa: All right. Well, would you like to start by just sharing a little bit about your pregnancy and how did that go? Were there any medical things to note and/or how did you prepare for this journey into parenthood?
Nadia: Yeah. So pregnancy now that I, obviously, when I was right in it, I didn't even realize, but once you give birth, it's funny, I look back at pregnancy as like such a beautiful time and I loved my pregnancy throughout. I think the first trimester was really hard because I was sick just because of nausea. And I'm a pretty active person. I'm pretty type A and I like to do the things my way. And I think first trimester is really a test on, just letting go of anything, any expectation, any social commitments, anything that you think is healthy for you, food wise. So as a healthy eater, as an active person, it was just like crazy. It was just like, I can't do anything. I can't look at a vegetable. I can't even think about my morning smoothie. I just want to throw up when I think about it. So that first trimester, I think, was a big test and like surrendering to pregnancy into that journey and kind of like sitting down and just being like, okay, just ride with it, just ride with it. It is what it is.
Lisa: Opportunity personal growth, right?
Nadia: Exactly such, yeah, it's such a test; it's really a test. And I think it also tests you for after, but also for the newborn phase where you also, again, have to surrender to expectation and planning and to-do lists and all these things. So, so yeah, so the first trimester was pretty tough in a way.
And then second trimester on it was really nice cause you kind of have this, like what everyone is like promising you. Energy is back. Your mood is kind of up, you're feeling a little better. And I know that it's not the case for everyone. And some people kind of have to deal with nausea throughout, and I have so much respect for women who go through this. So then after that, it was really nice to be able to go back in sort of a routine, even though it's adapted to pregnancy with exercising. I love to dance. I have like this like dance it's called Dance Body and they have a few studios in New York, but I did it online and it was really nice to be able to move my body every morning.
And obviously you would change a few things and modify to fit my trimester and where I was at. So that's kind of how I prepared. I feel like this has a lot to do with how I give birth, too, the fact that I stayed active as much as I could, even though not every day was easy. Some mornings you wake up and you're like, I just can't, I'm just not feeling it, but I would try to get a little movement just to, you know, when you when you feel so much better after. So that came back and obviously you can eat a little healthier than the Cheerios and bagels from the first trimester at least have something green in your system. And I definitely tried to prepare as much as I can for the after. But I think you tend to read a lot about pregnancy itself when you're pregnant too.
Like you don't really think of, at least for myself, I didn't read that much about postpartum. I didn't read that much about recovery, newborn, and I didn't read at all really about lactation and breastfeeding. So if I had to do something, if I had to redo it over again, I definitely think I would prepare way much more for postpartum than I did for the actual like steps of pregnancy. Oh, she's having, she's growing her lungs right now. Like, it is great to know, but in retrospect, fourth trimester is so much more intense than we think, or that, even if people tell you. So I definitely read a lot about like every step of my pregnancy and what to eat and what to do, and what's going on in my body and how to prepare for birth also.
And obviously taking your birth class, I think was really great. Not only for me, but I think for also my husband to prepare for birth. Just because they don't really realize until actually your birth class, where he was like, "Oh God, this is really what's going to happen."
Lisa: It's getting real.
Nadia: It's getting real.
So definitely read a few books. My wish was to have a unmedicated birth. So I read a lot of like Ina May Gaskin, hypnobirthing, and to be very honest with you, the hypnobirthing didn't really resonate with me when I was reading it. And as someone who practices breath work, all of that, I don't know there was something about it that just didn't click for me. And I didn't feel like this was my way of coping with the pain. I don't know. It just didn't. And also reading too many books kind of started to give me too much info anxiety. So you're like hypnobirthing and this and that. And, you start to kind of want to just clear everything out and just be like, okay, now I need to really kind of immerse myself in the experience and just let go of expectations and all of that for birth. So I try to do that. But your course was really great because it kind of gives you the lowdown on exactly what's going on in your body at every step of the way of labor, which truly helps you prepare and kind of understand and trust your body. So I think I ended up really going with that being like, we're made for this, it's a natural thing. And if there's any kind of complication, you're also really well you explained that really well. So this really prepared us and I think we took your course, I was 36 weeks or 37 weeks. So I think I was pretty close to giving birth.
Lisa: And little spoiler here is that you went into labor a little bit early, right? So you were even closer than you realized.
Nadia: Yeah. So yeah, and I think third trimester is really about, it goes by so fast and it was really about also slowing down a little bit and you're definitely getting bigger, you're getting more tired and kind of embracing that last, those last moments as a family of two.
Lisa: And I know you worked with midwives and how did you come to choose the midwifery model of care?
Nadia: Yeah. So I worked throughout all my pregnancy and still now postpartum with Central Park Midwifery, and there are absolutely wonderful women. Elaine, Christina and Jenna. And so at first I was at Cornell and I had this OB and I only met her for, I think it was the eight weeks appointment and I had so many questions. I was so excited to be a mom and give birth. And I was also feeling pretty sick. So I had all these questions about different things and random things, and I could feel like they didn't really have the time and energy to really answer my questions. And I felt a little, I just felt a little weird about it and it was very, it was so fast. It probably lasted less than 10 minutes. And there was this kind of fear -based information about different tests that you could do. And it was delivered in a way that made me so anxious. When you talk about amnio, when you talk about these type of things, and I wasn't, I was pretty lucky.
I wasn't a high risk pregnancy type of person. I also, the test that I did came back pretty good. So there was no reason for me to really worry, but the way they delivered information to me was so worrisome that I didn't feel comfortable. So I kind of asked around to a few of my friends and one of my friends just said, "You should try midwives."
And Central Park Midwifery they deliver in hospital. So for me, I wasn't ready for a home birth. So I had my first appointment there and it was just like a whole total, like completely different vibe, completely different energy. It was focused on me. We had time, we had a full hour. Every time I would see them, they would be like, "Do you have any questions?"
And they would answer so much that at the end, I was like, I don't have anything else to ask. I know, like you guys are providing me with so much info and always supporting me throughout that I felt so prepared and ready. So we clicked right away and I just I continue on. And even if they (spoiler alert again), didn't deliver Paloma, I am still very attached to them and the way they care for the mom.
Lisa: And you hired a doula, correct?
Nadia: Yes.
Lisa: At what point in pregnancy was that?
Nadia: Oh, it's so early on, which is crazy because same thing, one of my friends was like, "You need to hire," so her name is Sarah Pancake and she said, "You need to hire Sarah. She's the best she had me through two of my pregnancies, she's the best money I've ever spent." And so for me, I didn't really know what a doula would do. At first, I was very confused. I thought they delivered the baby. But then once I researched and I saw that they were just kind of they were supporting you through birth. And so I reached out to her, I think I was like nine weeks pregnant. So she was like, "That's pretty early. But sure."
And I will say it again and again, this was probably also the best money ever spent because everything I thought was going to happen did not happen. And because she was here by my side, I was able to not have a traumatic experience, which could have been pretty traumatic. And because she was here, it was just, it was an amazing birth. I have amazing memories from it. I almost it's in a sickly way. I want to relive it, but not. Think about it. It's pretty painful. But she was just wonderful. So I will recommend to anyone, even if you want to have an epidural. Even if you're [having a] C-section or whatever, I think they advocate for you, they give you the information that you need. They filter information for you in a way that makes sense. And you're not in the rush of things of trying to understand or Google what the hell the nurse is telling you. And in my instance, she really advocated for us so that it wasn't ridiculous when we got to the hospital and they try to make my husband leave the labor and delivery when I was literally actually pushing so that he could get a COVID test. Or like register -- put his social security number down or something.
And she was just like advocating so hard for us. So it was truly wonderful to have her by our side. So I will definitely, I always tell her I'm like, " Next baby, you're definitely in."
And I'll just mention she was praised in, I think at the very beginning of my podcast in season one, I think it might've been like, I'm not sure. Episode five or so I'll link to the other one mentions her in praises her.
She is wonderful.
Lisa: Nice. Yeah. And I love that you hired her so early because I always tell people you're paying a flat rate. So the earlier you hire somebody, the more of their support you're going to get through your pregnancy and helping guide you in your selection of a care provider and so much more. So that's great.
Nadia: She really starts working with you at 34 weeks. Like this is when things start to really become real. Like the first, I think the first and second trimester, she's really more of like someone you can ask questions about like, "Hey, do you know any good chiropractor? Do you know anyone?" She'll send you and refer you, but really there's not a lot she can do at that point.
Lisa: Right.
Nadia: But really after 30, we had a meeting with her at 36 weeks and we really sat down for like two hours and with Matt and my husband. She really talks to both of us, which I also noticed. and that I really liked is that she wasn't only talking to me. She was talking to him and there was a real conversation and he felt very included, which I thought was nice. Cause for men it's hard to really feel like you're a part of this journey, too.
Lisa: Sure. And I love that you're pointing that out because a lot of partners are against hiring a doula because they're afraid that they'll be replaced, but it couldn't be further from the truth. We're there to fit in however you need us to fit in and to support partner and to remind them to eat and to drink and to rest and all that good stuff. So I'm really glad you highlighted that.
Nadia: And even during my labor, she was key for him too. Like, even as much as she was amazing for me, for him, it was such a relief to have her. Cause I think he would have probably, I dunno, fainted as things were happening. It was really hard. So definitely.
Lisa: Nice. Great. Well, anything else about your prenatal journey before you launch into your brief birth story?
Nadia: Yeah. I think the one thing also I wanted to point out is that, I was someone who would like meditate a lot and have all these like things that I would do before pregnancy. And I think a lot of things went out the window and to not feel guilty, that you're not doing all the things. For me, I started kind of freaking out being like, I'm not meditating anymore. I'm not doing breathing exercises. I'm not doing pelvic floor things. And it's great if you're doing it, but it's also okay if you're not. My one guiding thing in the morning was just a little workout, a good breakfast. Just trying to keep simple things. And if you can add up, great, but just do not stress about all the other things that you hear and the noise and everything, because at the end of the day you do what you can.
Lisa: Hmm. That's some good wisdom. Thank you. All right. So then I'm excited to hear. You wrote me just a brief synopsis...
Nadia: Yes, I was so excited to write you.
Lisa: I can't wait to hear more details.
Nadia: I was due on July 1st and so I would go to, to see my midwives the last month. You see them every week. So I would see them on Monday morning. And I gave birth on the Thursday during the night, but that Monday before I remember I sat down with, I think it was Elaine and I just told her, I was like, " I felt last night, a little cramping. And I wonder if maybe there's something going on." And she was like, "You know what? Just ignore the signs." She was like, "When you're in labor, you'll know." So she gave me this really good advice. She was just like, "Ignore the signs, have fun, see your friends, get a manicure, go on a date night, take the bath--"
Lisa: That's great.
Nadia: "Sleep. Don't worry about this because the more you're in your head and you're thinking about it, the less it's going to happen, you're going to stress out." And your birth class. I remember, you were preparing us, also in the chance that yes, you might go early, but you might also go late and it's okay.
And the other things you told us was [that] once labor starts, it can take a long time, especially for people. It was my first baby. So, you just never know. So anyway, so long story short, I leave this meeting. I start making plans with all my friends, literally, and even for after my due date, which was crazy.
So my friend was like, "Really? Aren't you giving birth on July 1st?" And I was like planning a lunch and planning a dinner and all of that. So I was like, "No, it's okay." So that Wednesday I went on about my day. I like worked out, I had my dance workout and then at the end of the workday my husband was like, "Should we go on a walk?" I try to really make it a point to walk every day, at least for like 30 minutes and get like a nice good walk. And so we went on a walk around the park. And I started to feel a little heartburn, like kind of like a weird, like feeling in my stomach, just feeling like I ate too much or something. And it was kind of like intense. So by the end of the walk, and I had this like belly band, those like belly support bands. Cause at some point my belly felt really heavy when I would walk. So I would just wear that to help with the blood flow and just to not feel like it was really, really carrying a heavy weight, which I was.
So we get back and, we go on about, and I felt kind of tired in a weird way. Like just like a little tiredness and it just told him, "You know what? I'm going to go to bed early. We're just going to read and we'll be fine." So still have my heartburn. Obviously I can find the Tums stash that I had. This is typical when you look for something and you can't find it.
Lisa: Right.
Nadia: So look for it, can't find it so just I'm going to go to bed. And by midnight, I woke up and to the feeling of like heavy period cramps. And so I wake him up, which you told us not to do.
Lisa: There is no right or wrong. It's a general tip.
Nadia: Because you were like "Don't freak them out. It's not necessary. You might have to like, just like fall asleep or whatever." But first thing I do, I like, like
Lisa: It's hard not to, right?
Nadia: I'm like, Matt, I think I'm feeling something. And he's like, what are you feeling? It might be nothing. So I try to go back to sleep and 10 minutes later, again, a cramp. So I go to the bathroom to see like, what's going on. Maybe I have blood, maybe, and there was this, obviously this is really too much information, but really the need to go and poop. Like, it felt super, super intense, like kind of like a pressure, but nothing really happened. So I go back to that, I'm like, you know what, let's just text Sarah, just to let her know that I'm feeling something. It might be nothing, but just let's see.
And at that point I didn't really think that it might be it. So we text her and I actually have the whole chain of text, which I like pulled out. And so I told her, I was like, "I'm getting kind of like heavy period cramp. I just wanted to let you know. And they're coming about like 10 to 12 minutes apart. And they last about 15, 20 seconds." And I also said, I also feel like I want to poop, but it's not it. I just wanted you to know. So she answers me and she's like, "Hey! Fantastic." She's like, you might be able to sleep between contractions. Don't worry. She said 15 seconds is pretty short. So breathe and sigh it away and just rest. She said, "Focus on rest. This is the most important." And even in your class, you were saying just like try to sleep because you might not be getting sleep for awhile. Very easier said than done because you're just get so excited and you're just like... so then she told me she was like, "You made me to go to the bathroom and let's see what happens."
She said, "Don't time your contraction. And if they get stronger, let me know. I can talk." So and I told her, I was like, "I'm going to reach out if anything changes, I'll let you know." And she said, "Just try and not focus on them. If you sleep 10 minutes, great. Try to add up the sleep." So then obviously things continue to evolve. And at that point, I'm in the sense of like, I mean, I'm thinking, okay, what I learned from birth class is that things can take a very long time and
Lisa: But I also said a huge range of normal, right? There's my disclaimer.
Nadia: But in my head, I'm in the normal of the range. I'm not thinking, I'm thinking it's my first baby. All the friends around me, I've heard 18 hour labor. I was in a mom group too. And most of the moms who had already given birth were like 32 hour labor, like crazy things. So I'm just like, "Oh yeah, it's not happening. It's good." But what I do is that I still time them. Cause I have this little feeling in my head that they're kind of close apart and it's evolving. It's not stalling. So at that point I sent her a screenshot of the timer and they're four minutes apart and they last for about a minute.
Lisa: Ah.
Nadia: And it's 1:11 AM. And I start, I texted her at 12:30 AM, so it kind of doubled up in a way. So she calls me and we talk for a bit and she's like, "Listen, it's still at the beginning. Let's wait a little bit. Let's see." And at that point it wasn't too painful. I was kind of able to use my breath work knowledge and kind of like breathe through it. And, but it was still a little on the painful side, huge range of normal, lower range of the pain. And so we chat for a little bit and then it's time for me to go to bathroom. I feel like I need to go. So I texted her. I'm like, hey, I went to the bathroom. And I got a little blood and she answered, she said, "Yes, normal. There is going to be some blood. That may be some mucus. Okay, cool." By that time, we're like at 2:00 AM. And now at that point I am in full on pain. I try to wait. I try to not bother her because I'm also like, "I feel like I'm still early on. If I'm already feeling this being like, am I not able to handle it?"
You're starting to ask yourself question because it's only been, if it's only been two hours, how the hell am I going to last for 18 hours like this? I was just like, so confused to where exactly I was at. And there was no one to like, measure if I was dilated or anything. So I tell my husband next to me, I'm like "Text Sarah," because we're all in the group text, like, "Text Sarah, tell her it's painful. Like it's painful." So he texts her and she's asking if I'm lying down. So he's like, yeah, she's laying down with a pillow. I was like in the bed, pillows, I had a heat pad in my back and he's telling her, he's like, she's not getting really long breaks. So she said, "Okay. I wonder if she probably would feel better if she gets up a bit, maybe try the shower."
But at that point, I think what she didn't know. And what I didn't know is that I was so advanced that when I got into the shower, it felt absolutely horrible because it was the hot shower. I was having intense contractions to the point that I couldn't really stand. That's how painful they were. So Matt tried to bring the birth ball in the shower, which was the worst because I was so scared of slipping. The water would like be too hot when I was having those contractions. And at that point I'm kind of screaming. Like I'm really in pain, so I'm like, "I need to get out. I need to get out of the shower." So we get out of the shower and I'm like all wet. I'm having this towel, Matt puts, and then he's like, "Okay, Lisa's birth class. I'm going to put a mat down and we're going to do those exercises." But again, we're way too advanced for those exercises.
Lisa: You're not having it.
Nadia: I'm not having it. So he tries to massage my back. We try to do those things. I'm in horrible pain. He is trying to like massage, I'm like, "Get away from me, get off." I was so rude to him, as you predicted.
Lisa: And he take it personally, right? Because he agreed class.
Nadia: He didn't take it personally. And then he, the funny thing is that he keeps on telling me I'm like, " "Call Sarah. I need to go to the hospital. I was like, I want an epidural." Forget about unmedicated birth at that point. I'm like, "I don't care. I need this to end." So I'm like, "Call Sarah." He looks at me. He's like, babe, "No, we might have to stay, remember the class. It could take a very long time. So we'll go to the hospital tomorrow." And I'm like, "NO!" At that point, I'm just livid. And like, I'm probably, maybe I'm like, can't take the pain compared to all other women on this earth, but I was just like, this is too much.
So I finally, we start timing contractions, and this is when I really insisted and told Matt, I was like, just like, " I can't do that." And it's around 2:30 and at that point, Matt sends her a screenshot of the contraction timer. And I'm two minutes apart, one minute contraction, and it's about 2:40 AM. So then he calls Sarah. At that point, she hears me scream and-- cause we waited, we tried to wait. We were like, "Let's wait." And when she hears me screaming. She's like, okay, I'll be there in 15 minutes. So she shows up 15 minutes later. At that point, I'm on the couch. I'm on all fours and I'm making animal sounds, like animal screaming sounds. Matt is trying to like make jokes. I'm not having those jokes. He gives me a towel to bite on, cause I was literally biting my arm, my own arm. That's how like painful and I was screaming. I was like, how are we going to get-- cause in my head, okay-- so also one thing is that the hospital is 45 minutes away from our house. We live in Brooklyn and the hospital is on the Upper West Side. So I'm just like in my head, I'm just thinking, "How am I going to go through another, probably another hour like this--"
Lisa: In the car, no less, with bumps.
Nadia: car with the bumps in an Uber which poor Uber driver would probably be like, get out "Get my car," so Sarah arrives and she shows up in between two contractions. So at that point on the couch and I'm literally lying down and I have my legs open and I'm just like trying to breathe. But at that point, I feel like my body is naturally pushing when a contraction comes. So I can't help it. Literally every contraction, I push. And she comes next to me and she looks at me, she's like, "Do you feel like you need to push?" And I looked at her, I was like, "Yeah, I need to, I literally cannot help it." So a contraction comes and she does this really good thing where she made me breathe up. So she made me do this during the contraction.
So I was not pushing down, but I was pushing up, which I think delayed a little bit and helped me kind of probably be able to keep this baby in. And at some point she just looks at Matt. She's like, "Why don't you call the midwives and just tell them what's happening?" So we call Elaine and Elaine is on the phone and she's like, "Oh, why don't you guys just come to the hospital now, take an Uber." And Sarah is like, "I don't think we're going to make it. I don't think we can." And at that point she's like, "Elaine, I think you might have to just walk me through cause we might have to deliver here." So I hear that. I'm just like, "Oh, my God, what is happening? This is crazy." And at that point I look at Sarah I'm like, "Sarah, I think something's coming out." Like, I could feel this intense pressure of something literally coming out of me and I didn't know what it was. And she's like, "Okay." And then I push and this, I couldn't see it, but she took a picture to show me what was coming out. She thought it was the head at first because I was so probably advanced in the stage, and pushing, and it was actually my water sack just coming out.
Lisa: The fore water.
Nadia: Yeah. So literally was just like this little white balloon that was just like popping up. Yeah, a little bulge. And she took a picture and she showed it to me. She was like, the baby's had maybe right behind. And she told Elaine. And then Elaine tried to maybe make us come to the hospital once again. But Sarah was like, "She can't even walk right now." And so she looks at Matt and she's like, call 911. We might be able to get to a hospital. And she was amazing at that point, too, where she pushed to go to NYU, which was a hospital that was okay with having a doula with us. So they let her come, they let Matt come.
So that was also that's something we didn't know, you know what I mean? Like we could have been at a closer hospital in Brooklyn. And not be able to have Sarah by my side. So that was super, super helpful. So she keeps on like, every contraction she was with me, I felt so secure. When 911 came, she was able to talk to them. But as soon as I was having a contraction, her focus would be right back on me and I could feel like I was like, "Okay, I feel secure. I feel okay. I know that, it's not going to, it's not going to be traumatic. It's not going to be, fear-based; it's going to be okay."
And then she also made me, I can't remember exactly when she made me put a finger inside my vagina to check if the baby was close, because with that, she was able to tell the 911 when they came in that we still had time to go to NYU. So I had like, probably, I don't know, like probably half of my index finger where I could feel the baby's head, which was also crazy.
It was so wild. And then, so the 911 came, they were amazing. And it's just like the sweetest people ever, and the most helpful and so calm. And I have so much respect even more for them because they just handled everything so gently. They put me on this stretcher when I was like, having contraction, then they waited for a wave to go and put me in between waves. And so we went down into the ambulance, they put me on an IV, it took kind of a long time, but in the ambulance I was like strapped and there was bumps and I was just like, this is
Lisa: Oh, did you have to be lying down?
Nadia: Lying down fully.
Lisa: Maybe you wanted to maybe were you on your side or do you have to be
Nadia: No, I was completely lying down, but it felt fine. And also I had this like bulge of like my sack in between my legs. It was just like crazy.
Lisa: And do you remember when Sarah advocated to go to NYU that I'm really impressed and surprised that they even were allowed and able to do that? Because usually they have to go to the nearest hospital.
Nadia: Well, she really convinced them. She was like, "Can we please go to NYU?" And they were like, "All right, cool."
Lisa: Oh, good persuasion skills.
Nadia: Very good persuasion skills, which she had all throughout. And so we're in the ambulance and it's so funny because one of the EMT was starting to like tell Matt a story about his own wife's like his wife's birth story. And Matt was like so stressed out, but he was trying to like, listen, and I was like on the stretcher.
Lisa: Later. Later.
Nadia: Yeah, I guess it helped, too. And so one of the things also was that I was [Group B] strep positive.
Lisa: Group B strep or GBS call it several things.
Nadia: So we also had to make, to mention that just because of the IV, but again, I was tested at 36 weeks negative, but the issue is at Cornell because I went through fertility treatment, light fertility treatment. I didn't go through IVF or anything, but they did do a test early, like in October and I tested positive.
So because of that positive test in my files they had to give me the antibiotics, but they ended up not giving it to me and we were okay without, but that was an important step because she had to also mention that and kind of like advocate to like just go straight to labor and delivery.
So we get to the hospital, NYU, at 4:11, just for like a sense of time. And I gave birth at four twenty seven. So it was pretty quick. But in between, thanks to Sarah, once again, we were able to skip triage, which they tried to make me go through.
Lisa: I can't believe that when you have a bulging forewater that they would even dream of making go to triage!
Nadia: It was insane. So they try to make me go to triage. And I was literally screaming inside the hospital. Sarah looked at me, she's like, "Honey, now you can let it all out. You can push, you can scream." And I looked at her and I started screaming.
And so they try to make me go to triage. Sarah is like, "Absolutely not. She is not going. Let's go to labor and delivery." Thank God, at that point, there's a really nice doctor that passed by. And he looked at me and he looked at the nurse who was trying to get us to triage. And he said like, "No, she needs to go. She needs to deliver." So he literally personally took us to labor and delivery. And he went with us in the elevator to the sixth floor and I was transferred into this bed. And it's funny because also, you read all these, like in those natural birth thing that the best position to give birth was like on all fours or all this. But I actually felt extremely comfortable on my back with my legs open.
It felt really nice even going through contractions with it. So once again, I first in my head, I was like, should I get in another position? Is that bad? Is it going to be harder? But it wasn't. It was not. So also something interesting. Yeah. And then again, they try to make Matt register and get a COVID test. And once again, Sarah had to be like, "No, no, no, he's not leaving this room. His wife is going to give birth. So let him." And the nurse was still trying to like make him fill out paperwork and--
Lisa: These hospital protocols, it's just like beyond any reason or rationale.
Nadia: Literally beyond any rationale. So she was like, "He's, he's not going to miss his baby's birth." It was just like crazy. So anyway, so then doctor comes in, she was really, really nice woman. And she looked at me and she was just like, "All right, lady, I think you're ready. You're ready to push." So I pushed once. It felt insane. But weirdly, it didn't feel as painful as my, what I would call now transition when I was at home where it was really probably the peak of it. Pushing felt, I wouldn't say enjoyable at all, but I think it felt just easier. So I pushed once and then Sarah looked at me and she's like, "Okay, take a break now. You're stretching. You're good. Take a break." And it was really hard to take a break to just like relax a little bit in between. And then another contraction came and I pushed everything I had. Like literally it was the most intense power I could give. And she just came out like just squirted out of me.
And they put her on me and it was just this insane moment of relief and unbelievable. It was just, I couldn't believe she was there in my arms. And then from there it was just like magic and crazy and just like pure adrenaline. And then the crazy thing is also they asked me my consent for Pitocin after. And again like that was something, you probably mentioned it in your birth class, but I was probably not paying attention to it for that part. I looked at Sarah and I was like, "Is that okay? Can I do this?" And she was like, "Yeah that's okay. That helps with the bleeding," I think. She was like, it's pretty common, don't worry. But you know, when they tell you that if Sarah wasn't there, I would probably have been like, "I don't know, should I do this? Should I not?" So it was really nice to have her next to me to be like, "It's okay. You can do that."
Lisa: I love that you just mentioned that they asked for your consent to administer that because what very often happens is they don't even mention it and they just hang a bag of Pitocin because it's just standard protocol and they think, "Oh, it's harmless, it's necessary." And they just don't bring it up. So I'm really glad that they actually asked you if you were okay with that.
Nadia: Yeah, it was really--
Lisa: Because they're like to, technically.
Nadia: Yeah exactly. No, they asked and I was able to give my consent, knowing that this was okay. And then she was like, "Okay, we're going to have to deliver the placenta. I'm going to push on your belly." And I was like, "Girl, I went through this insane labor. You can push on my belly. I don't care," The worst--
Lisa: Push away.
Nadia: I was like, "It's okay I can handle any pain." When they were trying to like, poke me with like whatever IV or whatever, I was just like, "Yeah, take my arm and nothing -- I can take it."
So then they put us in a room and from there it was just like, yeah, The Twilight Zone starts and you're just like, sleep becomes a long-gone memory.
Lisa: Great way to put it. Very true. Not forever though. Not forever. But it feels forever sometimes.
Nadia: Totally. And then I only had a first-degree tear, so it was only five stitches. And to be honest, because it was unmedicated, I think I was able to kind of feel like myself pretty quickly. Obviously, not fully like myself. But actually like being able to pee, normally, and just not feel -- it felt like the recovery was easier than I thought in a way, like at least for my body.
Lisa: I'm glad to hear that because sometimes when a labor is so fast and going from zero to a hundred very quickly, sometimes it can be hard to recover from because it's like, whoa, what the body's what just happened? Really glad to hear that it was fairly smooth for you.
Nadia: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Lisa: Great. Well, unless there's anything else you wanted to share about that journey, I would love in our last bit of time together to hear a little bit about your breath work and how, if you want to get into any specifics for labor or just in general any techniques that you can share, just basic things that would be really useful for folks.
Nadia: Yeah. The technique that I teach is you're practicing it, lying down. And it's usually about 30 minutes type of session, 30 minutes of breathing. My sessions are usually my one-on-one sessions are a full hour, but there's 30 minutes of breathing and 10 minutes of really resting and lying down. It's a technique that helps with emotional release, with connecting to-- you're releasing trauma, releasing emotional baggage. Anything that's unprocessed, any kind of like energy that you've kept in your body.
And there's tons of physical benefits, but I think the main one is really emotional. And to go back a little bit on my journey, I think there was a lot of thoughts on not trusting my body to be able to birth and to be able to create a baby. And I think also I had all those hormonal issues; I wouldn't get a period, which is why also I had to go through a fertility treatment and I think breathwork helped me tremendously with connecting to this ability to have a child. To connect with her even before she was born. To really release those thought patterns that I wasn't able to do that. So I think that's how I connected really to it. And obviously starting to teach it, it was super interesting because you see that everyone is struggling with something different and breathwork can help you anywhere you are. Whether it's like, emotional issues or family things, or trauma that you had in your past, or, inability to find your path or creativity, depression, insomnia, anything. So it's been a really wonderful journey.
And the one thing I would say is that for me, it was hard to practice during pregnancy. Some practitioners won't take anyone pregnant just for safety reasons, because it's a breath work that kind of takes you in a certain state, so I practiced it first trimester a little bit, but I was really sick. So it was hard to like really have a full session. I did a little bit in my second trimester, but at some point your belly is too heavy to be fully on your back. So I would practice it on my side and for shorter stretches. And at some point I couldn't really practice it anymore. It just didn't feel comfortable, but I will say one technique that you can still keep through pregnancy and that really helped me with just a simple, really, really big inhale in really taking a big inhale into the belly. You really take it all kind of like expand, expand your chest and then keep five seconds, keep the air on for five seconds and then exhale really loudly and really big. And I would do that three times. I would do it in the morning and I would do it at night. And I would with the inhale just inhale anything that you kind of want to bring in, whether it's, trust in your body, love whatever. And then with the exhale, I would just release fear, fear of birth, anxiety, anything from the day, whatever you want. And that just that small little practice, which is still breathwork, helped me kind of like keep me grounded and keep, even if it's a small practice, but it just helps. It's just two little things I would do in the morning and night just for myself mentally. And it helped a lot.
So, yeah. And obviously you always check with a midwife, your doctor or your OB, if that's okay to practice breath work. But some people have done it through pregnancy. I personally had to stop at some point. Yeah.
Lisa: Great. Thank you so much for sharing that. Is there a specific method that you are trained in or practice?
Nadia: So it doesn't really have a name. Some people give it different names. It's basically a method where you inhale twice and you exhale once. There's really a ton of different names and there is not one name for it. And obviously breathwork is a big umbrella, and includes tons of different types. But this type specifically two inhale, one exhale and it's all done through the mouth.
So at some point you really go into your body. You get into this trance, almost, feeling. And your brain kind of like unhooks, your thinking brain unhooks, and you really start to have a very deep, powerful experience and journey that is about really releasing anything, any heaviness, any emotional baggage. And it can be very cathartic and very transformative for people.
Lisa: Mmm that's amazing. Yeah, one thing I want to learn more about with regard to breath work is the physiological differences between breathing in and out through the nose versus breathing in and out through the mouth versus a combination of those things. Because for a long time, I had been trained to encourage people in labor, at least to inhale through the nose and exhale through the mouth, and then a really highly respected colleague who's a prenatal yoga teacher, and has has been for many many years, really recommends all through the nose. And so I was like, okay, maybe I should recommend that instead. And I mean, ultimately I say, whatever feels best for you, experiment and see. And obviously if you're stuffy, you can't breathe in and out through your nose and you might have to through the mouth. But I just, I can't help, but wonder, I just really want to learn more about that specific difference. And yeah, there's a lot to learn about breath work and so many different approaches and philosophies. And so for me, that's always an area of interest.
Nadia: 100%, I mean especially for what you do I think for birth, where it helped me is I was more conscious of my breathing [than] I would have been if I didn't have this training. And when, Sarah was, telling me, "Just try to breathe, like do this type of breathing," it really resonated right away. I could right away connect that to my body and be like, "Oh, okay, this is helping me get through this." But I would say one thing that is extremely helpful is just to like if you don't want to take obviously classes or a full training, just taking those big, deep inhale and exhale and just connect. And it also calms your nervous system, which is what we all need, to kind of get away from fight or flight and just really connect to your body and give your mind and your brain a little break, especially through pregnancy when you're like constantly thinking, and I need to do this and that. So, so yeah.
Lisa: And did you say, do you do private sessions? Can you like give us the lay of the land a bit more, maybe you said this at the front, but just for reinforcement, do you do, in-person only do you do virtual? What does that look like?
Nadia: Yeah. So I do virtual for now. Hopefully we can get to in-person, but I think it's going to take a little while. But virtual has been working really well. So I take private clients and it's an hour session where we the first 15 minutes, we kind of talk about the challenges and what you really want to work on, and what's your focus and your attention for the session. And then the rest is the breathing and the relaxing part. And then there's always a time where you can share about the experience itself. I would always say, you have to try to understand it because it's just so insane. Same thing with birth that you think have to go through it to really realize what is. And then I do groups every, I would say like every four to five weeks, I'll do big group sessions, same thing on Zoom, and they're also amazing and full of energy. And it's really a wonderful time to kind of all breathe together. So, so yeah. And you can find me my website obviously on the show notes and also on Instagram. So.
Go ahead and say it, if you would, just for those who don't want to have to go to the show notes.
Yeah, so it's @nadiajosse and my website is wellwithnadia
Lisa: Wonderful. I was sharing with Nadia before we hit record that I did not even know that you had this expertise and do this as a profession when you took class. I was like, "Wait, what?" I think I somehow think you liked an Instagram post or something, and I realized who you were. And I was like, "What? She does breath work? What? How did not know this?"
Nadia: I always go by my day job, you know.
Lisa: Sure, when you're asked your profession.
Nadia: Exactly. So, so Yeah.
Lisa: I do think I have a vague recollection of when I was talking about breath work and of course everybody else in the class is muted. And I think I noticed you maybe commenting to Matt maybe while I was talking about breathwork, and so I was like, "She knows something about breath work."
Nadia: Probably. Yeah, no, it was interesting. It's interesting to see how there's so many different, even with hypnobirthing, there's so many different breathing techniques that actually helps you cope with pain and to completely kind of like you just change the physiology of your body, your hormones, your cortisol, everything is just so related to the way you breathe.
Lisa: So, so true. Great. Alright well, are there any final insights or reflections that you would like to leave us with and especially for expectant parents or new parents who might be listening?
Nadia: Yeah, I would definitely, my one thing that I would say is just really prepare for postpartum. I think it's not said enough. And I think people will tell you about lack of sleep and all that, and you really say it well in your class. You're like, even if you don't think you might need a lactation consultant, have one lined up because chances are whatever your challenges you'll need help right away. And you don't want to be thinking about, who am I going to, have that lined up. Have food lined up for yourself. I had all these plans to like freeze food and do all these things. Obviously I didn't have time, but when you're a new parent, you come home and It's just like chaos and whatever you thought would be chaos, it's worse. So, you just you want to be as prepared as possible. Have someone to help you with laundry. Have someone to help you with food. I cannot say this enough, you won't have time and your body is healing and you even though mine was, it wasn't too bad. I had a one degree tear, but still like for a week, it was hard for me to really walk around in the house and do all these things. So if I had to go back, I think I would have way more prepared that time of my life, even with a postpartum doula. Just because it is a really vulnerable time, so,
Lisa: That's so true. I'm glad you're highlighting that. And that's a big reason that I very intentionally spend a good deal of time in our class series on the topic of postpartum wellness, which at least locally, almost no other childbirth class builds that in to the series. It's an a la carte, separate class that most people aren't going to spend money on, you know, and spend time, on if they have to like sign up for that separately, because of exactly what you're saying. We get so caught up in our pregnancy and in preparing for birth that often it's an afterthought and we just don't plan for it. So that's yeah, another thing I'm really glad you're highlighting.
Nadia: So important. And I had lactation consultant coming because I had like the issue of engorged boobs. And I think now, when you're in New York City, it's easy to have someone come right away. But I think if you're not in a city where there's necessarily a lactation consultant right there, or like those apps where you can get quick help, I think just like planning, all of that is super, super key because I was just like, I was in pain and she wouldn't latch on a boob that was engorged. So, you want to get help and help fast. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. thank you so much, Nadia. This has been so nice to reconnect.
Nadia: So nice, so fun. And I really also would recommend your class for sure, to anyone who's expecting a baby because it was really wonderful. There was not a time where we were bored. We had so many great information. And as many books as I've read, I had so many, there was so many new information that I was getting from your class that were really key and helped us as a couple kind of really get our mind prepared birth.
Lisa: Thank you, that means the world to hear that. All right. Well, give your family love.
Nadia: So nice to speak to you.
Lisa: Yes, you too. Be well,
Nadia: I will.
Lisa: Bye.
Nadia: Thank you.