What happens when you’ve planned a peaceful, undisturbed birthing center birth but are diagnosed at 37 weeks with a rare form of preeclampsia called HELLP Syndrome? Jennifer shares how this unexpected news threw her for a loop but how she calmly drove herself to the hospital to check in for an induction in which she had the pressure of needing to give birth within a few limited hours or else cesarean would be necessary. Tune in to hear how uncharacteristically efficient Jennifer’s labor was and how ready for giving birth her body and baby were. She also shares the number of ways she prepared for giving birth in light of her background as a clinical nutritionist, postpartum chef and yoga teacher with training as a doula.
Episode Topics:
Work as a yoga teacher during pregnancy
The choice not to tell people she was pregnant until around 23-24 weeks
Work with a community clinic earlier in pregnancy, getting married and switching later once she was on her husband’s insurance
Switch to a Rhinebeck birthing center
Desire to work with midwives and give birth in a birthing center -- looking for good rapport, more integrative, holistic kind of care, more intimate conversations
Acupuncture treatments, pelvic floor visits
Nutrition in pregnancy - focusing on protein, consulting with a colleague nutritionist to support her
Pregnancy scare of some breakthrough bleeding
36-37 weeks - they had just moved upstate and she’s diagnosed with gestational hypertension (a week later preeclampsia, HELLP Syndrome)
Risks out of using the birthing center, feeling very sad and being told she’d need to come to the hospital
Drives herself to hospital to check in for induction
Husband takes train back upstate from NYC from work
Check in for induction, realization that the birth isn’t going to look anything like what she had envisioned
Forgot to eat lunch and worried she won’t be able to have the energy to labor
Staff tell her she either needs a cesarean or she can labor for no more than 6-8 hrs before a cesarean is necessary
She was 2 cm before starting induction
She loses her mucus plug just before they start induction and she’s energized by this sign of progress
Induction starts with pitocin
Her husband reads the Birth Partner while she labors
She’s really focused on helping labor forward
Awesome nurse was like a doula
By 8pm she’s already progressed to 4cm
Conservation of energy since she wasn’t allowed to eat (nurses never left the room because she’s so high-risk for her to sneak snacks)
Offered epidural, doesn’t need it
Around 9:30-10pm she’s already 9cm dilated
Baby came out arm first
OB does “sneaky” episiotomy to help him out
He doesn’t cry at first but is fine
Peter cuts cord
Feel so much relief after the birth
Baby born at 10:22pm - around 5-10 min of pushing
See pelvic floor therapist after episiotomy
The idea of another pregnancy and the likelihood of HELLP developing again being very sobering
Desire to do placenta encapsulation but not being allowed to be given her placenta (not even to bury it)
Final insights, including the recommendation to take a birth class earlier, maybe even preconception or first trimester
Description of Nouri - meals delivery service for TTC, prenatal, postpartum
Resources:
NOURI - NYC-based TTC/pregnancy/postpartum adaptable meals delivery service; say Lisa Taylor/Birth Matters NYC sent you for $25 off
NOURI’s IG: @nouri.mama
Also on IG: @alitebite (Jennifer as postpartum personal chef)
HELLP syndrome - plus more info in Ep 18
Dr. Rachel Parrota - pelvic PT, @rachel_parrotta_dpt
Magnesium Sulfate info (drug used to prevent seizures in folks with severe preeclampsia, delay preterm labor, and/or protect the brain of a premature baby
Pelvic Floor Resources:
Great brochure from The Functional Pelvis (NYC-based pelvic floor OT): Caring for Your Core, Back & Pelvic Floor
Chelsea Method’s & One Strong Mama’s (now Body Ready Method) prenatal prep & postpartum recovery online courses
You Might Need a Pelvic Floor PT If… on IGtv w/ Dr. Rachel Parrotta, NYC DPT
Prepping Your Body for Birth & Postpartum on IGtv w/ Dr. Stephanie Stamas of Chelsea Method
What’s Going On With My Core? An Intimate Discussion With Pelvic Floor Therapist Lindsey Vestal & Belly binding (Yoga Birth Babies)
Taking Care of Your Down There (Tough as a Mother)
Sponsor links:
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Welcome, Jennifer.
[00:00:01] Jennifer: Hi.
[00:00:03] Lisa: So good to have you today. I'm really excited to hear your story.
[00:00:05] Jennifer: I'm so excited.
[00:00:08] Lisa: So Jennifer, could you please introduce yourself? I know there are several ways that that you can support people in this journey into parenthood.
[00:00:16] And we'll talk a little bit more about that after you share your story, but first of all, can you just tell us what you do for a living? How long you've been a parent, all that good stuff?
[00:00:24] Jennifer: Yeah, sure. So I am a clinical nutritionist and postpartum chef. So that is a very much big part of my practice, but I am also a co-founder of Nouri, which is a healthy meal delivery service for people TTC, pregnant and postpartum.
[00:00:42] And I am a mom of a son. His name is John. He is almost two. He was born in March. So I gave birth about almost two years ago now.
[00:00:54] Lisa: And the times of the pandemic must be interesting having a two-year-old and being housebound a lot.
[00:01:00] Jennifer: Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. So we, we were living in the city, New York City, and now we're upstate. So about two hours away from the city.
[00:01:10] Lisa: When did you move before the pandemic hit?
[00:01:13] Jennifer: Yes. So we actually moved right before I gave birth. So that's a whole other part of the story for sure.
[00:01:22] Lisa: Nice. Well, I'm sure it's nice to have more space, especially with a little toddler.
[00:01:28] Jennifer: A hundred percent, you can kind of just open the door and he walks out and you're like, "Oh, okay, great. Go entertain yourself now."
[00:01:36] Lisa: Yeah. Nice. Great. Well, first up, would you please share a little bit with us about how your pregnancy went? What were the ways that you prepared for, you know, labor, birth, parenthood?
[00:01:50] Jennifer: Yeah. So while I was pregnant, I luckily was practicing a ton of prenatal yoga at the time that was a majority of my practice.
[00:02:01] And so I was teaching up to five times a week. I still had private clients. So it was really, really nice. To be able to still move in a way that was great for pregnancy and then also, still building on my community. Funny enough, although I work kind of like in this industry in many different facets, I really internalized my pregnancy and I didn't actually tell anyone I was pregnant until probably like.23 weeks maybe. So it was definitely during that time that it was like coming into the fall so I could kind of hide it. I like wore really big sweaters. Like, you know, I wasn't really showing yet until like, probably towards the end of the year. So it was kind of funny kind of having these conversations, but then also being like, yeah, yeah, I'm also pregnant, but I think definitely.
[00:03:00] Obviously everyone kind of experiences pregnancy in a different way. But I think definitely sharing it later in my pregnancy really worked for me.
[00:03:13] Lisa: Great. Yeah. That is longer than -- most people start spreading the word maybe around 12, 13 weeks. So you went about twice as long. Yeah. Well, that's so interesting to hear. Yeah. Everybody's different with these things, so I'm glad that that felt like a good thing for you.
[00:03:29] Jennifer: Yeah, no, it was nice.
[00:03:30] Lisa: And how did you choose your care providers and birthplace?
[00:03:35] Jennifer: Yeah. So that's also an interesting part of the story in which basically at that time I was mostly freelance, so I also wasn't married yet.
[00:03:46] So basically I then was kind of forced to find something or some place that was still very welcoming, but didn't have like the amount of choices kind of like a medical insurance can provide. Later on in my pregnancy, we then got married at the end of the year. So then obviously I was able to then get on my husband's insurance and just have like a breadth of options.
[00:04:15] But initially I sought out a local community clinic in the city that does support pregnancy, which was really great because they had so many group programs. They had really great providers. They had medical residents who were really able to give you more one-on-one time. It didn't feel like an OB/GYN practice kind of factory.
[00:04:38] So I really, really enjoyed that. The only thing was that I knew that they had delivered or had delivering privileges at a hospital that I didn't want to deliver at. Again, being in this industry, you kind of hear, okay, maybe this place is a little bit better or whatever it is. So I always was kind of adamant about potentially leaving there and going to a birth center. At that time, the birth center in the Upper West side had closed. So that was no longer an option. The only other place I believe was in Brooklyn. And then I had heard about a birth center in Rhinebeck. And so now where we are that's maybe 30 minutes away. But my husband's from this area and so I was able to connect with a few people and eventually transfer my care there while we were still living in the city at the time. So it was definitely a bit of a challenge to find the correct, or in my mind, the best provider for what I wanted out of a birth experience. And I switched pretty late. I was definitely getting care from the beginning all the way up until about 23 weeks in the city and then transferred care at about 25 weeks officially.
[00:06:07] Lisa: So right around the time you started sharing that you were pregnant, you were switching care providers.
[00:06:11] Jennifer: Yeah, exactly. And you know, it's not easy to find the right care provider, but I think that a little effort goes a long way, especially throughout your pregnancy and, and obviously postpartum and throughout the labor and delivery for sure.
[00:06:30] Lisa: Yeah. And you're saying you were working in a field where you were hearing some of this, but for people who aren't, great ways to find great care providers are through prenatal yoga teachers and childbirth educators and doulas to name a few, but not limited to that because, you know, that's, they have their finger on the pulse of, and I should say we have our finger on the pulse of those birth places and care providers.
[00:06:56] And you said that you were seeking out the kind of care that you were hoping for. What were you envisioning for your birth and for your care providers?
[00:07:07] Jennifer: Yeah, so I definitely wanted to be a part of a practice that did have midwives. That was really important to me. So the practice that I did seek out had both. So it had about four OB/GYNs, but then also maybe five to six midwives. And I think a lot of people don't even realize when you do join a practice that essentially any of those people could be one of the people that then are available during your birth in labor and delivery. So it's interesting to kind of think of it as like in a bigger picture, because you're potentially going to meet every single person.
[00:07:51] I know things have kind of changed with COVID and everything, but essentially you want to be able to kind of have a good rapport with any and all of these people. And so I really wanted a more integrative holistic type of care. I wanted to have more intimate conversations more than just, "Hey, here's your blood pressure? This is when you're due. Okay. Kind of see you later." Whereas a lot of the experience that I had with the midwives were really, really great. We talked about anything and everything. Sleep. When I was moving. All of that kind of stuff. So it was a really great experience to kind of have more intimate one-on-one care about more than just pregnancy. But other ways to kind of support the pregnancy as a whole.
[00:08:44] Lisa: Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense with your line of work, both in nutrition, as well as body work that like you acknowledged to a good extent holistic care that like all these things really, really make a difference, right? Often, when we're working in a conventional system with like OB not always, but, but more often than not largely to due to the insurance system and how quickly they have to turn over clients, you know, and have how brief the visits are, there's just not time for that. Nor is there really the training. They just, you know, in medical school, there's just not as much training as midwives tend to have a more holistic training, right? For nutrition consultations and all of that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Great. Thank you for sharing that.
[00:09:30] Jennifer: Yeah, it was a really great experience for sure.
[00:09:34] Lisa: Nice. So any other pregnancy preparation or pregnancy developments?
[00:09:43] Jennifer: Yeah. I think I definitely wanted to make sure that I was kind of covering all of my bases. So I got pretty frequent acupuncture and then I also saw a pelvic floor therapist before and after. I really wanted to get a sense of my baseline kind of before I was set to deliver. And that was extremely helpful. Obviously I had kind of the training with yoga and all of that. And I was very much in tune with my body. But I think pelvic floor therapy is just so, so important. Especially before you give birth, rather than kind of scrambling around if you're uncomfortable for, you know, whatever happens in your birth experience.
[00:10:29] So I think that was definitely key in making sure that I was well prepared when the time came. In terms of, I guess anything else that I did to prepare? Obviously I was still doing a ton of yoga, and--
[00:10:49] Lisa: I just wanted to say, I'm so glad that you're bringing to people's attention the value of prenatal pelvic floor therapist visits, because I don't think anyone has brought that up on the podcast and it is, I'm trying to spread awareness about that.
[00:11:05] And I talk about that in class, too. The idea of being able to get a sense of what state is your pelvic floor in, before birth is golden, right? Because we're all told, "Do your kegels." And actually the opposite is often needed more for most people, most of us have a hypertonic pelvic floor, tight, too tight, and we actually need to learn the opposite, the reverse kegel, the bulging, the relaxing, the lengthening of the muscles, right? But there's no one all -- what is it -- one size fits all, that's what I was looking for. You know, someone who can help you get a sense of that. Yeah. And I'd love if you want to share any about your visits, more details about that, I think that'd be fascinating.
[00:11:51] Jennifer: Totally. So it's interesting because again, the point that you made is that so many people are so focused on kegels and their idea of a kegel is like, "Okay, I'm going to like lift and tighten." And especially in my classes and in my training, especially with yoga, I only practiced reverse kegels. Because again, like you said, typically everyone is pretty high. And if you don't even really know what that means it's kind of hard to visualize on your own.
[00:12:27] And so seeking out a pelvic floor therapist that has the ability to, you know, give you a proper pelvic floor exam can actually feel so you know, they put on gloves, they actually feel the tension of your pelvic floor, right and left. So it makes a big difference. One side might be a bit stronger than the other.
[00:12:50] Lisa: And is this external work or internal?
[00:12:52] Jennifer: Internal. And I can share the person that I went to who is amazing, who I love.
[00:12:57] Lisa: I'd love that. I'll be happy to post that in the show notes.
[00:13:01] Jennifer: Being able to get a sense of the tension or weakness or strength of either side is so, so important. Again, with the reverse kegel, you're not trying to keep the baby in at the time of labor. You're not. And so at that point you need to then visualize and internally recognize how to do that. And a pelvic floor therapist, a hundred percent helps you do that. They give you an entire list of exercises that you can work on.
[00:13:36] And depending on when you go, I mean, I definitely recommend any time between the second and third trimesters, you can continue to practice those exercises effectively is so, so important.
[00:13:51] Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing a little bit more about that. I would love to hear anything as a clinical nutritionist and postpartum chef or perinatal chef maybe now. Were there any specific things you were focusing on nutritionally in your pregnancy?
[00:14:09] Jennifer: So I think obviously pregnancy and postpartum nutrition can be so tricky and it is so individual and especially in the beginning you know, some people aren't able to kind of process foods that they used to love or foods that are good for them or even necessary nutritionally.
[00:14:31] I think that kind of coming into pregnancy and nutrition in a way that honors just like your own body in the best way that it can. I was lucky that I didn't have any nausea. I didn't have really any morning sickness. I didn't have any of those really first trimester symptoms.
[00:14:55] I just loved being pregnant. Again, obviously someone that is trained to know the body very well. I just thought it was extremely fascinating just every stage every day, any movement, anything like that, I just thought was so, so cool.
[00:15:14] But in terms of like the nutrition, my main focus was probably protein. So I think that it's very, very easy for people to become meat averse especially if they are not vegetarian. And then just being able to get whole protein sources, I think, was the hardest thing for me. And I actually sought out a nutritionist who is a colleague of mine to kind of give me a full evaluation. It's definitely hard to kind of, obviously, if you're in this work, sure, you can kind of get a sense of, "Oh, okay. Like, I know I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that," but having an outside perspective and having someone kind of look at the whole picture without your internal knowledge, I think is really helpful.
[00:16:02] So even if you're someone who is a birth doula or a postpartum doula, or even someone kind of in the birth industry, it's always good to kind of rely on your colleagues who can definitely provide a little bit more insight that you didn't even think about. So I think protein was a big one.
[00:16:24] And then I also, I didn't have like a ton of cravings. I didn't crave carbs. It wasn't really anything like that. It was mostly fermented probiotic type foods. So I was probably eating Korean food with all of the fermented vegetables, probably like once or twice a week. That was the thing that I was craving.
[00:16:49] And for me that really helped with any constipation Any weird digestive kind of issues. And that's really common, especially when you're growing, your organs are shifting, parts of your body are moving in a different way. So that really helped me. I didn't have any issues with like constipation or digestion because of that craving. And I really just honored my body's ability to--
[00:17:19] Lisa: And do you mind my asking, are you vegan, vegetarian, eat it all?
[00:17:24] Jennifer: No, I eat everything. So I had the meat aversion. I did not want to eat pork, but I could eat steak, fish and chicken pretty well. My husband, I remember he brought home like a pork chop and I just could not stand it.
[00:17:44] And then even up to two years later, it took me a long time to want pork chops again. It was so strange.
[00:17:54] Lisa: That's so interesting. Cause I feel like most people, the aversions or cravings kind of go away as soon as we give birth. But that's really interesting.
[00:18:03] Jennifer: I guess I was just so traumatized. I was like, "Oh no, I love pork. What is happening? I can't even stand it." The smell, the look, it was like this whole thing, which is like, obviously very common, but pretty funny after the fact.
[00:18:19] Lisa: Great. Well, thanks for sharing all that. Any other ways that you prepared for the transition into parenthood before you go into your quite brief birth story?
[00:18:30] Jennifer: So first for postpartum, like obviously as a postpartum chef I wanted to do everything that I told my clients too. So I definitely prepared with at least like a week full of meals in the freezer.
[00:18:44] And so I cooked some really favorite foods of mine. It was like a pork stew that I really love that could be easily heated up and also a white bean stew. And then definitely had some snacks on hand for, you know, obviously we're going to be up day and night. And I definitely made my own bone broth.
[00:19:07] Lisa: Yay for homemade bone broth. Well, I say homemade; you're a professional, but--
[00:19:13] Jennifer: So those were the considerations that I definitely thought of postpartum. In terms of pregnancy condition developments, I had a pretty great pregnancy, basically all throughout, again, wasn't nauseous, didn't have morning sickness. Really just loved being pregnant and only until, interestingly, the end of the year we went to a party and maybe because I was like jumping around a lot and dancing, I then went to the restroom and I found some bleeding and it was so scary. We ended up going to the emergency room locally, which was funny enough, the place that I ended up giving birth at, which we'll get into. But it was one of those things where I definitely then got into kind of like my doula training mode with everything that I kind of had been taught and learned about. And so luckily once they got there, you know, they kind of monitored me and everything was fine.
[00:20:27] So it was really, really interesting development. And I think definitely comes into play then later on in my pregnancy when around probably like 36, 37 weeks we had just moved upstate. So essentially to the area where we were going to live and close to the hospital then where I was set to give birth.
[00:20:50] Around that time, at one of my prenatal appointments, I had elevated blood pressure. So really at that time it was just kind of considered like gestational hypertension. And I didn't have that before I was pregnant. I've always had a really great blood pressure, my resting blood pressure has always been very, very normal, great. So I kind of attributed it to moving, the stress in that. And so I didn't really think [any]thing was kind of awry at that point and I was being closely monitored, but again, luckily like I was at a practice that allowed me to continue in my pregnancy and it was very much, you know, not concerned as well, kind of gave me some integrative things to consider. Like more hydration and things like that.
[00:21:44] And it wasn't really until probably maybe a week later where I had some lab work done and they got the results back. And I had another out ultrasound that really they then considered it to develop into preeclampsia and the most severe form, which is known as HELLP syndrome, where basically at that point, my kidney and liver levels were almost, not failing, but very much in the danger zone. And really the only way to resolve that is obviously to then have the baby.
[00:22:22] Lisa: Yeah. HELLP syndrome is a very, very, it's rare, but it's very serious. So it's good that they caught it.
[00:22:30] Jennifer: Yeah. And it was one of those things where, you know, if you read about it again there's still not really a perfect storm of things that the person has done or what can kind of change that.
[00:22:45] It really can develop very rapidly. And a lot of the focus is on the placenta in the way that maybe the body is then not able to process as well. And so there's very much still a lot of unknown information about how that can come about. But I think the biggest thing is making sure again, that you have a really great care team and trusting them because my OB, she went over and beyond what I ever thought was possible.
[00:23:19] Like, at the time, she was very much checking in and all of that. But then the day then when I was set to then go to the hospital, when they decided that I was at those extreme levels, like she had texted me from her personal cell phone and she was like, "Hey, when you see this, give me a call."
[00:23:40] And so, you know, it's really important to find really good care providers that will go over and beyond when you really need it.
[00:23:49] Lisa: Now, can you just clarify you had mentioned a birthing center in Rhinebeck. Was that an in-hospital one, and did this diagnosis risk you out of that?
[00:24:01] Jennifer: A hundred percent. So I was always set to give birth at the birth center in Rhinebeck.
[00:24:07] And then basically upon receiving these labs the same OB who had texted me once I had called her was like, "Hey, I really want you to go to the more medicalized hospital in which you can be at a proper labor and delivery in the case that the baby needs to go into a NICU.
[00:24:29] Lisa: So that birthing center is freestanding?
[00:24:32] Jennifer: No, it is attached to the hospital. Okay. But they just felt at that point, like wanted to make sure that I had the best care in the case that like things needed to be escalated, essentially.
[00:24:45] Lisa: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.
[00:24:47] Jennifer: A hundred percent.
[00:24:48] Lisa: So you had been working with midwives, but, but now we're shifting to working with an OB, but it sounded like you really were, I should say. And it's and this OB, it sounded like was, was really supportive.
[00:25:01] Jennifer: Yeah. So the practice at the birth center has both, so they have OB/GYNs and midwives and so you kind of circulate through all of them.
[00:25:11] And then, if you are a set and okay to deliver at the birth center, basically on your way, you can kind of call and say, "Hey, I'd love the midwife." And then obviously the midwife will definitely support you. Definitely in the early, early stages. But I was so, so sad. Like I really, really wanted to give birth at the birth center. I had still been commuting from the city, like very much in the early weeks and kind of not being able to have the birth that you envision is like, so, so heartbreaking.
[00:25:52] And I was just not really realizing at the time, to the extent of like what this all meant. Like I was like, "Oh, okay. Got it. All right. I guess I'll make my way to the hospital. Like okay, sure," kind of thing. Not kind of realizing like what could then unfold. It was just, "Hey, I already called the hospital for you. They're expecting you. You need to go right now." And so at that point I was like, "Okay, sure." Not, you know, not that I was ambivalent to the information, I just-- I guess I was just kind of processing it and again, kind of having my expertise and my lens kind of walking into that situation kind of very guarded.
[00:26:53] So I guess I just was kind of not really considering the severity of what it could be, if that makes sense.
[00:27:01] Sure. That makes that all makes a lot of sense.
[00:27:03] Basically I had gone and had an extra ultrasound 'cause they were just kind of having me on high watch. And then I had gone home, taken a nap, looked at my phone and had all these missed calls and text messages. And then being like, "Oh, okay. All right. Well, I guess I'll go to the hospital now," kind of thing.
[00:27:25] Lisa: So you were saying this is right around 38 weeks, is that right?
[00:27:29] Jennifer: Yeah, so I was like 37-ish.
[00:27:36] Lisa: Okay, so then what?
[00:27:40] Jennifer: So yeah, I mean, essentially then it goes into kind of like how the events unfolded for the entire birth story. So essentially I got the missed calls. I spoke to the doctor; okay. " The other hospital is expecting you, you know, make your way over there. You need to be monitored." I already called Peter, my husband, and he's on his way. So he was still working in the city. So he had to then take the train back upstate. So I knew I wasn't going to see him for a couple of hours.
[00:28:11] And so I, funny enough, I had already packed the car with like snacks and clothes and like all the things that like I wanted.
[00:28:20] Lisa: Yay for you! I always say, "please be packed by 36 weeks," and you were.
[00:28:28] Jennifer: And I think something important to think about is like, there's no need to work until you are supposedly going to be due like, it's fine.
[00:28:38] So I had already like kind of nested. I was home. This was like a month before, essentially before my estimated due date. So the car was already packed. Like I was like, okay, cool. Like I'm just going to drive. And I remember telling this to Peter, my husband, who was on the train, just like a nervous wreck, like getting a call from the OB, like, "Oh my gosh, like I need to like, come back home, like, oh, what's going to happen?"
[00:29:03] And I was like, "Hey, like, I'm gonna drive. And then you can just like, meet me there." And he thought I was insane. I was like, no, I packed the car. Everything's in there. Snacks for you, snacks for me, clothes for you, clothes for me. Like books, my iPad chargers. Like I think we're fine. Like I'm just going to drive.
[00:29:27] Lisa: And you're not in labor right now. Right? Big difference. So I wouldn't recommend driving if you're in labor.
Pic of where she parked car for her husband
[00:29:35] Jennifer: No, no, no. Not at all. No, I wasn't in labor, but I think just like the diagnosis and whatever, the conversation that he had had with the OB, like maybe he thought like, I was like literally degenerating or dying or, you know, whatever the circumstance was. He was just so nervous. And I was like, "No, no, don't worry. I'm going to drive." So I drove to the hospital; I remember parking the car. I took a picture of where I parked it, took the keys with me and I was like, "Hey, this is where the car is. Meet me inside."
[00:30:09] Lisa: I am so impressed that you had the presence of mind to take a picture of your car -- and like -- that's impressive
[00:30:17] Jennifer: Well, because I knew that it was going to, like, I parked at the parking garage and I wanted him to know where it was because he had a key of his own. And I parked in a place where I knew that like, he wouldn't get lost. Cause again, like I kind of foresaw that, he is like kind of a nervous, anxious person.
[00:30:38] And I was like, "No, no, don't worry. Like, it'll be fine." So I parked the car, took a picture, I parked it like near the roof. So it's like, you can't get confused. Like it's all the way at the top. And I took my bags and then I walked into the front of the hospital because again I wasn't at the birth center, so I'd never been at this hospital before in this capacity.
[00:30:59] Besides obviously going there at about 28 weeks when I had the bleeding scare at the triage and emergency room. So honestly, I had no idea where to go. I'd never been to this hospital before. And so I just walk in through the front doors and I'm like, "Hi, where's labor and delivery?"
[00:31:19] And the lady's like looking at me like, "Oh my gosh, do you need a wheelchair?" And I'm like, "No, no, like, I'm fine. Can you just show me where it is?" And so, like, I had my bags, I'm like obviously very pregnant. And so she shows me. And so then I go into the elevator and there's a nurse in there. And I'm like, "Oh, hi."
[00:31:37] And funny enough, right, literally when I walk in my paperwork's already on the counter, so like they were truly expecting me. So I was like, "Oh, interesting. Okay." And I'm like, "Hi, I'm Jennifer. My OB called." And then the nurse that I ended up riding the elevator was like, "Oh, we were expecting you. Like, it's you. You're here." And so then from there you know, "Here's your room. Okay. Let's set you up." And again, like I had no intention of having this type of birth, so like I'm very much walking into like, "Oh, okay." Like, "This is a hospital bed. Here's an IV. Here's magnesium, because we want to make sure that with preeclampsia, you don't potentially have seizures before and after. And then, you know, we're going to set you up this way. It sounds like your husband's on [his] way, and then you kind of just have to wait until the OB/GYN that's here can see you. And then we're also going to have the director of maternal fetal medicine have a conversation with you." And so at this point I'm like, okay, so it's kind of getting a little bit more serious and I'm kind of coming into the realization of like, oh, so this is like 180 -- the almost worst outcome that like, I can imagine, but nothing has happened yet, right. So like just kind of setting up the foundation of like, "Oh, okay, this is what this will be." And so it's a lot of waiting. And the nurse kind of telling me like, "Sweetie, you're not leaving until you have this baby." So here I am thinking like, "Okay, well it's like 12:30. I didn't eat lunch because they were so fearful about what was happening."
[00:33:37] So then now I'm just thinking. I know. So now I'm thinking, "Okay, now they're not going to let me eat because of the fear that I'm going to need a C-section." And I'm thinking in my head, like, "This is so awful. Like, I can't believe this is happening. At this point, it's like 12:30 and then I have to wait until my husband comes.
[00:34:00] He comes about three o'clock. And then we're waiting. Still can't eat. They're like, "You can have water, you can have ice chips." And so I'm starting to get very, very anxious and fearful that I obviously haven't eaten since breakfast, which was maybe around like nine o'clock. And so like, obviously the nutritionist in me is like, "Okay, so where are you going to have and find the energy to be able to labor?" And so that's all I'm thinking about really. Around 4:30, I finally see the OB/GYN. They come in with the director of maternal fetal health, and she's essentially telling me, you know, preeclampsia is very serious. You have a severe form. HELLP syndrome is very serious.
[00:34:53] And at that point I'm still kind of like, "Okay, sure. I understand what you're saying. not really giving it a lot of thought. Not that I didn't think it was serious, but again, I'm kind of coming into it kind of guarded and kind of wanting to get a bigger sense of what the true picture is.
[00:35:16] And so, funny enough, again, I had my iPad and I was trying to log into my patient portal to get a sense of my own lab values. So I'm like trying to log in furiously. And just like in my frustration, lock myself out and I'm just like, "Oh my gosh, like, this is really happening?" Because sure, they're telling me this.
[00:35:41] But like, I want to know for my own self, like to the extent of what those values are. And so basically the conversation is like, "Hey, so really the thing that we need to think about is you're either going to have an automatic C-section right now, or we can let you labor for maybe six to eight hours and that's it.
[00:36:09] And so then again, I'm thinking in my head like, "Well, obviously I'm going to labor. Like I want to try. I know my body. Sure you're telling me all of this, but I want to try, at least, because I do feel like I am almost about to give birth anyways, like naturally, I just feel it." And so they're like, "Okay, sure, fine. We'll let you labor."
[00:36:40] Lisa: And probably being skeptical. Cause most inductions take on average 24 hours.
[00:36:45] Jennifer: Exactly. And so I'm processing this information, like, "Wait, you're giving me six to eight hours? " I have never heard of an induction that is six to eight hours. Like that literally seems impossible.
Bloody show
[00:36:59] So not only am like, I am guarded, I am determined. I am fearful. I am anxious. And I'm like, "You know what? Like, sure, again, thank you for the information, but like, I want to labor." So they're like, "Okay, let's just see maybe how far you've been dilating." And so at that point I was at two centimeters and so they were like, "Okay, let's, let's see how this goes. We'll let you labor for this six to eight hours. And then if that doesn't work, then we're definitely going to have a C-section. I was like, okay, fine. I think that was hopeful. And interestingly, there was a clock right in front of my bed, on the wall. And so after we had this conversation, they're like, "Okay, we'll set you up with Pitocin. And you know, we'll monitor you. And so at this point I was like, "Okay, sure. Like, can I use the restroom?" And at that moment my mucus plug fell out.
[00:38:03] So then I was like, "Oh my gosh, perfect. Like this baby is ready to go." Like, they are like, sure. They think one other thing. But like, I know we are like, so, so prepared for this. And so I was so hopeful. Yeah. And essentially then they put me on Pitocin. It was about six o'clock. And so I kept remembering, "Okay, they said, they're going to give me six to eight hours, but I'm giving myself until like nine, 10 o'clock to like really focus, really kind of like be in a mindset."
[00:38:42] So the Pitocin started at six o'clock. And at first, you know, the contractions were fine. I could breathe through them. Again, like as a yoga teacher, like I breathe deep all the time. So like, it wasn't actually that far from just like the kind of breathing that I was always used to. And it didn't really start to get intense really. So I had like, the lights turned off. I had my husband next to me. And funny enough, he was just kind of reading the whole time. I had given him the book The Birth Partner to kind of prep for all of this.
[00:39:21] And so he was just kind of sitting next to me, like calmly reading. And so the contractions started to get a little bit more intense, as they do. So the only other thing that I wanted at that point were my headphones and my phone. So I could listen to music because again, I was so, so focused on beating the odds per se.
[00:39:46] And so I kept looking at the clock and I remember, okay. So, you know, I would look at like, all right, it's seven. All right. It's eight. Like let's, let's see how this goes. And I amazingly had the best nurse who was so, so supportive and so calm and kind of coaching me almost as like a doula would. And again, obviously my husband was there, but he was just reading and I still, think that's so funny
[00:40:19] Lisa: Reading about all the things he should be doing.
[00:40:23] Jennifer: Exactly. He didn't really think about like, "Oh, okay. I guess I should do these things." He just continued to read. And then I would occasionally be like, "Hey, can I have some like ice chips?" Cause they wouldn't give me water. It was just ice chips at that point. And I was also focusing on kind of making as little movements as possible, because again, I hadn't had any food since like nine o'clock that day. And at this point it's like 7:30, 8:00.
[00:40:53] Lisa: You weren't feeling comfortable sneaking snacks? Cause you said you had some in your car, but--
[00:40:59] Jennifer: Yeah. No, I didn't. I didn't even really think about that, but I think it's because the nurses were always there because I was so high-risk that didn't want to kind of like stir the feathers as much as I had already done.
[00:41:20] Like I was already like, a pretty frustrated person. Like I was like, "Hmm, yeah, sure, whatever." But basically then around like 7:30, eight o'clock I had progressed to like four centimeters. And so I was like, okay, great. Like I am moving along. And essentially at that time, too, I was put on a catheter again with like the magnesium and everything.
[00:41:45] And so again, I'm kind of just like processing, like how medicalized this is becoming. And so really just focusing on the clock. And then I know the nurse had talked to me about an epidural and I didn't really even think about it. It wasn't really something that I had thought about beforehand. If I really needed it, sure. But at that point she was like, "Let me know what your pain threshold is. If you need it, then we'll, we'll get you one." So around like eight o'clock, we kind of had that check-in. And then probably very shortly after, she came in again and was like, "Oh my God, like you're at nine, like you're at nine centimeters."
[00:42:29] And this was probably at like, close to like 9:30, maybe 10. And so I was like, "Oh, okay. Cool." And she was like, "Do you, do you want the epidural now?" And I was like, "No, I don't think so." Like at this point we're already here and obviously with my training and everything, like I was focused on getting it done and I felt like we were almost there.
[00:42:56] Obviously the contractions were getting a little bit heavier. To the point where you almost can't breathe on your own. Like, it feels like that. So then at that point I remember her being like, "Oh, okay, like, let's change the bed. Like I'm going to call the doctor, like we're having a baby." And I'm like, "Oh, okay."
[00:43:14] And then all of these nurses rush in. I swear, it felt like there were 20 people in the room. And one lady was like, "Oh my gosh, we're having a baby." I was like, "Oh, okay."
[00:43:29] Lisa: That's such an energy shift, isn't it, going into the pushing stage? Much of the time, quite a few people come in the room, all these tools on a tray come in and it's like, "What is going on?"
[00:43:40] Jennifer: Strange. So strange. I was like, "Oh, I guess we're having a party." But like, then again, I'm at the same kind of like focus, like, okay, sure. Like you're really excited, but like, I need to have this baby. And I remember there was one moment towards the end where they were like, "Oh, the head's coming. Do you want to touch the head?"
[00:44:01] And I was like, "No. No! I need to get this overwith. Like, I need to have the baby, right? Because they were so urgent about it that like, I felt like I couldn't enjoy what that could potentially be. And then funny enough apparently like his arm and shoulder kind of came out first. And so then they gave me like a sneaky, episiotomy a little bit, and then he like popped out.
[00:44:32] And he didn't even really cry, which I also thought was interesting. And I was like, "Oh, okay." And then Peter was able to cut the cord and then it was like, it was all over -- like so fast. I couldn't even like even process like, "Oh, okay. So I'm not sick anymore. There's no more urgency, but okay, great. The baby's here." And I think I just kind of was like, "All right, Peter, you should cut the cord. I think this would be a really great experience for you." And he was able to cut the cord and he was so excited and he was able to hold the baby first. And I guess after that, it was just kind of like relief, just like so much relief, like I did it. I trusted my body. I knew what was ultimately right for the both of us and the baby was so ready, too. And miraculously, that all happened so fast. He was then born officially like at night at 10:22. So really that whole process, and even the pushing, probably took like five, 10 minutes. So it really went from six o'clock to about 10 30, which again is so insane to me, but we were ready. And we did it.
[00:46:02] Lisa: And I'm so thankful that you had that little sign of progress with losing the mucus plug. Cause that seemed to be really key in energizing you and being like, yes, we got this. Like we are on our way to being able to have a vaginal birth, yeah?
[00:46:22] Jennifer: Right, right. A hundred percent. I remember seeing it and being like, "Oh, I think this is the mucus plug." I took a picture because I was like, I need to, you know, in case that they asked me--
[00:46:35] Lisa: The picture of the car in the garage and then the mucus plug, side by side in your gallery.
[00:46:39] Jennifer: Yeah. And you know, I was like, I need to let them know in case they have any concerns that this is the decision that I've decided to make because my mucus plug has come out naturally and I am ready to go. So it very much was like, "Okay, like we can do this. Like, let's go baby. Like we can do this."
[00:47:01] Lisa: That's awesome. Wow. And a couple of questions I had with the magnesium. Did you feel any, did you feel weird with that? Were there any symptoms or side effects that you noticed?
[00:47:14] Jennifer: No. So I had actually, like, I love magnesium. Anyway as a supplement. So I had been taking extra magnesium, so I didn't really feel anything out of the ordinary.
[00:47:26] Really the only uncomfortable thing was the catheter. I'd never had one before and it also just kind of allowed for very limited movement and it was just uncomfortable. I always had felt like it was in wrong, but I guess that's how it's supposed to feel. And I had it for some time. Because again, the risk with preeclampsia, and then maybe developing into eclampsia and then maybe even seizures.
[00:47:58] So you're on a catheter and magnesium a good amount of time after the entire labor and delivery.
[00:48:08] Yeah. Some people, I'm sure it depends on the person, but it also depends on the dosage. Some people hate the mag. So I was just curious to see. Yeah. And I, I do know that like in terms of nutrition, most of us are deficient in magnesium.
[00:48:23] Lisa: And so we can benefit from some, but here's this specific clinical diagnosis where it's helping with preeclampsia.
[00:48:30] And you said sneaky episiotomy. Had you had any conversations, particularly with your awareness of pelvic floor health, about like, "In the unlikely event that I have to have an episiotomy, any discussion along those lines?
[00:48:45] Jennifer: No, not at all. I mean, again, this ended up being a doctor that I had had no rapport with besides briefly meeting them when I did have the blood back when I went to the ER.
[00:49:01] But otherwise, you know, I didn't have a rapport with them. I didn't really know anyone there didn't know any of the nurses, anything at all. So I was very much walking into a situation, almost blind to kind of what their expectations are, how different it was from the experience that I had with the OB/GYNs and midwives at the birth center.
[00:49:24] So it definitely was night and day, a hundred percent different. So there was no discussion. Almost as if-- like I remember my husband saying like, "He kind of, did it to kind of do something." 'Cause I had such a great outcome, if that makes sense. He was saying people were saying like the birth went ended up so well kind of with the circumstances that it was fine.
[00:49:53] So I remember kind of really being annoyed at that because once then I had delivered the placenta, then they have to kind of sew it up a little bit and it was so uncomfortable. I think that was probably the worst part. Like the labor, the contractions, all of that, like were seemingly okay since I am a very focused, deep breather. But that part was very, very uncomfortable. A hundred percent.
[00:50:22] Lisa: Yeah. I mean, that's always so interesting. I feel like, yes, they do a local numbing, but. often it doesn't do much, I feel like.
[00:50:35] Jennifer: No, I felt it a hundred percent, like the entire time that it was like being sewn back together. Again, which is then why I saw the pelvic floor therapist about like a month after, just to get a sense of like how everything was healing, my strength, all of that.
[00:50:57] Lisa: And did you learn which kind of incision they did? The diagonal one or the one straight toward the anus? Median or mediolateral?
[00:51:08] Jennifer: No, I have no idea, but I know that in my pelvic floor therapy session postpartum, she was like, "Oh, this looks really good."
[00:51:17] Lisa: Well, that's good to hear. That's what you want to hear.
[00:51:20] Jennifer: Yeah, that's what I wanted to hear. I was like, "Oh, okay. I'm all stitched up appropriately, it seems."
[00:51:27] Lisa: Right. I thought maybe seeing a pelvic floor therapist, they might say, "Oh, you had this kind of incision or this kind, but not necessarily.
[00:51:34] Jennifer: I don't even remember.
[00:51:36] Lisa: As long as it looks good, who cares.
[00:51:38] Jennifer: Right. Like I wanted to make sure that like, it didn't look or feel not normal. 'Cause I definitely heard obviously a range of stories. So I just wanted to make sure that everything was okay and there wasn't like any cut into the muscle at all. But it seems like it was very minimal and it was healing really great.
[00:52:02] Lisa: That's impressive with the arm coming out first.
[00:52:06] Jennifer: It was kind of like almost like a shoulder-arm situation. So it was like, "Oh, interesting. Okay."
[00:52:16] Lisa: These funny babies, they choose what they're doing there.
[00:52:21] Jennifer: Yeah. And I also thought like that he didn't cry. Cause like I know that like, that's kind of what I wanted, like a kind of like peaceful entrance into the world. And so at the birth center, the ideal would be like, I would be in a tub or like almost like a home birth.
[00:52:37] But I didn't want it to be such a stark difference for him. But it ended up being totally fine and he was so calm and so sweet. And didn't really cry at all. So it was really, really nice at that point in time.
[00:52:55] Lisa: And I don't know if you are hoping or planning to have a second. Is it likely that you would develop HELLP again or has there been advice along those lines?
[00:53:07] Jennifer: Yeah, so unfortunately, typically if you have preeclampsia in a pregnancy, the likelihood to have it in a subsequent pregnancy is very high. And I think that's something that I've always considered because of the experience that I ended up ultimately having and knowing that it would be very similar.
[00:53:32] And obviously we are in a COVID world and right now it's not a warming environment to begin with. So I always kind of have some hesitations and fears, some anxiousness around the possibility of like, say I was then pregnant. Sure, then I became preeclamptic. Maybe it develops into HELLP syndrome.
[00:54:01] Would they give me the option to labor that I had such a great birth outcome? Or maybe not? What if they were like, no, like we need to have a C-section right away. And that's always a consideration that I think about all the time. Just because of the nature of the environment that we're in now.
[00:54:22] And I can't imagine not having Peter there sleeping there, being able to be there, you know, for the full three days that we were then at the hospital, especially with a diagnosis like preeclampsia, they're very much monitoring you a lot more than they would a regular kind of postpartum patient. So even that in itself, just kind of going through the motions of making sure that like my blood pressure was okay, that I wasn't exhibiting any other signs is really, really difficult in a COVID birthing environment.
[00:55:01] Lisa: Thank you for sharing that. So, is there anything you wanted to share about initial postpartum or is there anything else that you haven't gotten to share before I ask for your final insights as well as for you to tell us a little bit about Nouri.
[00:55:22] Jennifer: Yeah. So I think the other thing was like, I had always wanted my placenta to be encapsulated, but again, since preeclampsia has a link to the placenta they weren't able to give it to me.
[00:55:39] And I was really, really sad about it, funny enough. So I wasn't able to encapsulate my placenta and I even, I just wanted to like bury it. I had an idea of burying it and putting a fruit tree on top. And so kind of making it like this very fruitful, harmonious experience in which like every year, this beautiful fruit tree would like bear fruit with nourishment from like placenta. So that didn't happen. And then I think basically in terms of postpartum and just kind of pregnancy -- again, I touched on this, like making sure that you're very, very comfortable with your providers. The experience potentially -- being adamant about meeting all of them, knowing kind of their principles as a whole is so important.
[00:56:33] I think definitely being able to eat beforehand. So once you start to feel like you're in labor, making sure that you're eating enough, because again, I wasn't able to and it ended up being okay. But I think that in any sense that you are able to kind of carb-load, like you were going to run a marathon, like that's the same consideration you should definitely have.
[00:57:00] I think the other thing that we had touched on earlier was making sure that you have a better sense of what the birth experience could be. So if you're even trying to conceive or in the very early stages of your pregnancy, maybe taking a birth class before. All of that and even more so in the very early stages, if you're like 12 weeks. Just because you can make a really more informed decision about your birth experience in terms of just even choosing a provider you know, some providers. Or practices won't even take you on until maybe like that eighth or 10th week. So you have a lot of time. And also you can also change providers. I think that sure, some places won't accept new patients, but again, if you're adamant about the type of care that you want you can do it. I changed at say 25 weeks and that's pretty late.
[00:58:06] Lisa: Mm-hm. A lot of care providers stop taking transfers at around 28 weeks. So usually up to then you can switch depending on where you live and how many care provider options there are. But here in New York City, certainly there's so many options and so, important to think about what your preferences are. Like you're saying to learn more about birth and the many considerations really to start to bring some mindfulness and awareness to those things is golden. Yeah. Cause so many people come in the third trimester, past 28 weeks, and then they're like, "Oh no, I'm not with the right care provider for me." And it's a lot harder to switch. It's not impossible at all, but there's significantly fewer options at that point. So I'm so glad you're highlighting take birth classes earlier. That's a great tip.
[00:58:53] Jennifer: Yeah. I think just so many people are then anxious. Like, "Oh no, I made the wrong decision," and then start backtracking. And not that it's not impossible to do, but I think that thinking about those things very early on -- things that you have preferences for, things that you don't. The ideal, but obviously knowing like, as with my story, things can change so dramatically and you just don't know, but also kind of being at peace with whatever decision is made, I think, then taking the steps towards your almost desired outcome. I think, kind of for me, was like having that mind shift and really being able to then go on that new path was really helpful for me a hundred percent.
[00:59:44] Lisa: Great. Thank you so much. All right. So as we wrap things up, could you please tell us a little bit about Nouri? I'm so excited about this service.
[00:59:56] Jennifer: Yeah. So Nouri is a healthy meal delivery service that is adaptive throughout every stage of your journey. So whether you're trying to conceive or you're pregnant and even postpartum, and that can be up to a year or more. We are able to create a meal plan that is perfect for every stage of that journey for you with breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, bone broths. And then soon to come, obviously it's local to the greater New York area now, but to ship broths and teas and snacks nationwide. So you can gift and support your friend or a family member that you're not able to see during these unprecedented times.
[01:00:48] Lisa: Love that; great. And you and I did an IG Live together on Instagram recently. I saved it to my IG TV. So if you go over to @birthmattersnyc on Instagram. I'll also link to that video on the show notes for this episode, you can learn a lot more about that and learn about prenatal and postpartum nutrition. I had a really great chat with Jennifer fairly recently. So be sure to check that out. And it's Nouri like nourishment, like N-O-U-R-I, right?
[01:01:18] Jennifer: Yeah. So the Instagram is @Nouri.mama. And the same for the website. So Nourimama.co
[01:01:30] Lisa: Okay, great. And again, I'll link to all of that information in the show notes so people can easily find you. Great. Well, thank you so much, Jennifer. This has been so nice to hear your story, and I look forward to sharing it with people and I wish you the best with Nouri as well as your family.
[01:01:50] Jennifer: Thank you so much. It was so nice to connect and especially talk about all the different ways that people can prepare, I think is a great thing to talk about for sure.