For the first time on this podcast, an almost-complete birth team is joining us today for a birth circle of sorts. Kelsey shares her firstborn’s story,with her midwife, Jenna Sood & her doula, Christine Gibson, providing their perspectives and filling in gaps where Kelsey’s memory becomes foggy. Kelsey had spent a lot of time in pregnancy envisioning and planning for the kind of birth she desired, which was an unmedicated birth in which she felt connected and well-supported. Her labor surprises her, similarly to Elaine’s story earlier this season and Toni in the last episode, in being a shorter-than-average first time labor. This episode really drives home in a new way the power of surrounding yourself with compassionate care providers and support toward an amazing birth.
Kelsey in pushing stage with squatting bar, supporting by partner and midwife Jenna Sood @centralparkmidwifery
midwife Jenna Sood @centralparkmidwifery
Kelsey and baby with doula Christine Gibson
Doula Christine Gibson @queensdoula
Episode Topics:
Hiring midwife & doula early on, taking classes, nutrition, lots of reading during quarantine, listening to birth-related podcasts
Having virtual visits with doula until 36 weeks
Having in person visits both with and without Andrew with midwives
Walking around Socrates Sculpture Park, dancing at the recommendation of midwives
Water breaks when about to sit down to watch Love Island
Andrew takes pic of fluid
Letting doula and midwife know
Doing Miles Circuit
Being annoyed at basketball game being on
Putting out affirmation cards, crystals
Contractions start around an hour after water broke
Starts to forget things
Moaning on yoga ball while Friends is playing in background, contractions coming every 5 min
Moving to bedroom, lying on side, lighting candles
“Miniature flu” symptoms during contraction, nausea, chills, shakes
Asks Andrew to call doula Christine
Christine comes over and helps her find a ritual
Anticipating wanting water, but being annoyed in water in reality
Getting to a point where she’d feel more relaxed at the hospital
They call her bro-in-law to come from Brooklyn to be their driver
Christine stroking Kelsey’s hair in car and narrating the progress to the destination being really helpful for Kelsey
Relieved to be 7-8 cm upon arrival at triage
Importance of self-advocacy
Being annoyed by bright lights and administration of hep lock, monitor
Getting admitted into L&D room, feeling emotional
Doula setting up the room with affirmation cards, etc
Jenna sharing her experience from the time she first hear from Kelsey, commenting that Kelsey really skipped early labor (unusual for first-time labors)
Around 9am she’s 10cm and exhausted from being awake for around 28 hrs
She felt like she froze around this time, feeling done and like she couldn’t do this anymore
Needed a lot more coaching than she thought she would want, pushing took around 3 hours
The “never ending almost there” is how Andrew describes pushing
He looks down there and sees that baby really is almost there so his energy shifts in a way that’s helpful for her
Felt like pelvis was being broken open
Didn’t feel the urge to push until the last hour
Warm compress with coconut oil feeling wonderful
Waiting until feeling the pain to bear down instead of shying away in the face of the pain
Jenna shares different pushing positions they tried - squatting bar, etc.
Trying shower to relax her
Lying in bed on side with peanut ball
Turning on some music -- Kelsey broke down in a cathartic cry, connecting with her nana who passed recently -- things seemed to shift
Feeling the hormonal rush at the time of birth, exhilarating feeling
Sounding like a different person (has video of these moments)
Playing “Harvest Moon” - another special song with her Nana, playing as baby came to her chest
Amazing nurse comes over and coaches Kelsey to pat her back to encourage her to cry, a little amniotic fluid comes out
Andrew does skin to skin as placenta was coming out
Jenna takes pic of placenta with cord put into a heart
Feeling super exhausted afterwards
Only in hospital for around 24 hrs
Jenna & Christine share their perspectives on the moments of and after birth
Resting lots once at home
Having baskets filled with postpartum supplies, bringing extra bag to bring home extra supplies from hospital
Protected joy sheet on fridge - things you love to do, reminders
Healing has gone really well
Oversupply of milk - seeing lactation consultant on Zoom plus Christine is a lactation counselor
Not feeling guilty about the bottle and giving yourself a break when you need it
The importance of asking for help in postpartum
Resources:
Central Park Midwifery (Jenna Sood was Kelsey’s midwife) @centralparkmidwifery
Christine Gibson, doula @queensdoula
Astoria Doula Collective (Doula collective based in Western Queens)
The Mama Natural Week-by-Week Guide to Pregnancy and Childbirth by Genevieve Howland*
Battery-operated tea light candles (12-pack on Amazon)*
Huckleberry app
NYTimes article on Vaginal Swabbing to replicate microbial seeding in a cesarean
Sponsor links:
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Interview Transcript
Lisa: Welcome to the Birth Matters podcast. I am super excited today because this is the first time that I have had the great opportunity and honor to have a full, well almost full, birth team. Kelsey's partner's not here, but we have Kelsey Pantoja, who's the birthing person. And we have Christine Gibson, her doula, and we have Jenna Sood, her midwife, from Central Park Midwifery. Welcome you guys. I'm so excited you're all here.
[00:00:30] Kelsey: Thanks for having us.
[00:00:32]: So let's see, Kelsey, I'll ask you to introduce yourself maybe at the end, as you go into talking about, preparing for pregnancy and for labor and birth. But let's see. Jenna, would you like to just tell us a little bit about yourself and your practice that you work at -- Central Park Midwifery?
[00:00:47] Jenna: I've been a midwife for about four years and just joined Central Park Midwifery in August of this year. So I'm new to the practice, I'm very excited to have started with them and excited to attend deliveries at Mt. Sinai West.
[00:01:01] Lisa: Great. And I took a peek at your bio on the website. And if you don't mind, I'd love to just point out a couple of things that you said. I love that you said, "she is deeply committed to providing a safe and sacred space for all people and families that she works with." I just so appreciate that. And then I also loved that, "the first birth Jenna attended was when she was seven years old and her childhood cat was having kittens. Jenna supported her by singing "I will always love you" by Whitney Houston repeatedly. While Jenna's supportive methods have expanded and evolved since then, she continues to bring a full and present heart to every birth she attends." I really--
[00:01:45] Jenna: [inaudible] I've attended many animal births and many human births but that was, that was my special first birth story.
[00:01:53] Lisa: I love it. I grew up on a miniature horse farm. Well first a quarter horse farm, and then a miniature horse farm. So I too attended a lot of animal births before becoming a doula. That's so fun. Great, thank you so much. We're so glad to have you, Jenna.
[00:02:08] Christine Gibson. Welcome, welcome, my neighborhood friend and colleague.
[00:02:13] Christine: Thanks for having me. I was lucky enough to be Kelsey's doula. I live in Astoria, Queens, and, I got involved in birth work after the birth of my two children. They were born with a midwife at home and it was just like so beautiful and transformational.
[00:02:29] And so I was excited to enter into it, like, being able to support people officially instead of just being that person who texts all their pregnant friends and offers help and stuff. So, yeah, I'm so excited to be here with everyone.
[00:02:42] Lisa: Thanks so much, Christine.
[00:02:44] And Kelsey, welcome. We're so excited for you to share your birth story with us today. Do you want to tell us maybe how long ago you gave birth and maybe, the neighborhood you live in and anything else you'd like to share to introduce yourself?
[00:02:58] Kelsey: Yeah. So background a little bit about me. I'm from California. I've lived in New York for almost eight years, and six of those in Astoria, also, so lots of Astoria representation here.
[00:03:12] Lisa: Yay neighbor.
[00:03:14] Kelsey: And I'm a teacher I teach pre-K, I've been an early childhood educator for 10 years and children are my favorite thing.
[00:03:25] So having my own was something I've looked forward to for a very long time. and Emmy was born September 6th. 40 weeks, three days was when I went into the birth process. And yeah, she's almost six weeks. She had her first leap this week, which was real, and her brain is growing really fast, so it's pretty amazing.
[00:03:54] Lisa: I'm so grateful that you're willing to do this so soon after you gave birth. Cause I know you're really in the throes of new parenthood right now. I know for that fourth trimester the first three months. So thank you, especially. So would you like to first share with us if you would, some different ways that you prepared for this transition into parenthood for labor and for early parenthood?
[00:04:19] Kelsey: Yeah. So three core things that umbrellaed everything for me was, the decision to have a midwife to go with Central Park Midwifery was like, a huge game changer for me. I went to my first appointment at an OB around Christmas time. I was like four and a half weeks -- I knew right away. So, and it was not a nice experience not to say that there aren't wonderful OBs and experiences, but the experience I had felt very, just, get you in and get you out, you know, wham-bam, and I was like, but no, I'm pregnant for the first time. Like I wanted him more cushy experience. And when I got in touch with Central Park Midwifery, I immediately felt just heard and appreciated. And the time was given to me to really ask every single question a first-time mom wants to ask and be honored.
[00:05:14] So that was number one. Number two, finding a doula was something high on my list. I think I found Christine very early, even though we were already in quarantine, I think, when I found her, so my last two trimesters were in quarantine and so I met her through a Zoom Astoria Doula [Collective] meeting and immediately loved her energy.
[00:05:37] And the fact that she was a mom, that was really important to me in regards to having a doula, just to kind of--Someone who had been through what I was about to go through. And then your class, I feel like Birth Matters really prepped, especially my husband, Andrew. I had been reading, reading, reading every single book that there is.
[00:05:58] And I had been prepping--I had all the time in the world being in quarantine. So lots of mind expansion for me in regards to reading and podcasts, but my husband had not been doing those things. So his major learning was your class. I mean, he was like, wow, I had no idea the way babies come out and the way they look and it really prepped him for, you know, just his stance during labor and birth and the way he chose to be a part of it and honoring my choices, which was so important to me and for us as a family, to have someone who can, who can do that, who can just say, you're the one who's about to embark on this transition. So you tell me what the best way to do that is. So those three things, for sure. Reading books, I read Mama Natural right away, and that kind of led me to midwifery.
[00:06:56] I was not as informed as I wanted to be. And it really helped. Transformed by birth was also a really amazing book that helped me spiritually kind of connect with what was about to happen. And then Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering, I've been reading all along and I just really appreciate her approach as well.
[00:07:17] Self-care. I was in quarantine. So mentally, I had to prepare for keeping positive during a time that was really tough. You know, none of my family and friends saw me pregnant. It was, except for zoom and FaceTime and, you know, just kind of me and my husband were together all the time and with our cat and that was our...in our apartment. So, how do you stay, you know, healthy, happy present with your baby? So lots of yoga, meditation. I really think working out helped me stay really positive throughout all of this. And recovery has been easier cause I worked out throughout my pregnancy, eating right, supplements, talking to friends, being able to text my doula.
[00:08:05] If I had a weird random question and you come up with more questions in quarantine, you know, you're, you're here inside. So all you have is time to think about how is this happening? What's going on? You know, is it okay? Am I okay? Is crying okay while you're pregnant? You know, I, I had a lot of moments where I was like, I just need to be vulnerable and sad and you know, feel bad for myself and the world.
[00:08:31] And you know, one of the best pieces of advice that my own therapist gave me was it's good for her to hear you cry. It's good for her to, you know, tell your baby that it's okay to be sad. You know, you're going to be sad one day. So having the support. Podcasts. I listened to Birth Matters. I listened to a lot of podcasts all the time to help me hear the different ways it can go, you know, prepping your, your mind for it could be a C-section.
[00:08:58] It could be an epidural. It could be in the car. It could be a lot of ways. So, you know, creating an even sound in my brain is taken information where some people are like, no, no, no, for me knowing everything is the way I like to go. So that's pretty much how I've prepared.
[00:09:16] I did all of those things all the time. To the point where my husband was like, you can stop listening to things about birds. You can just like, watch a show without anything to do with pregnancy. so, you know, it was, it was a lot, it was a lot of information.
[00:09:35] Lisa: And can you talk a little bit about what your prenatals looked like with the midwives at central park midwifery and then with Christine? Were they mostly virtual or were the some in person given a lot of your pregnancy was in quarantine?
[00:09:50] Kelsey: Yes. So I actually didn't meet Christine [in person] until I was about 36 weeks. So we did all of our communication through screen time and, you know, it was really fine.
[00:10:03] I thought it was great. I was still able to get what I needed from her, which, virtually is, you know, you get used to it after a certain amount of time. and then when I got to meet her, it was so wonderful. Cause just in time, New York calmed down and she was able to come over and teach us the, in person, the positions for labor.
[00:10:23] And, it was, we were really lucky in regards to like timing. and then she was able to be there. So all of those things were awesome. and Central Park Midwifery, I was able to go in with, or without Andrew, to every visit. You know, I spent like almost 45 minutes there. Every time it was a very thorough chat.
[00:10:47] It was always, just, you know, you're, you're, you're open to talk about anything, whatever you want to ask, whatever you have questions about, you go in, you sit in their little office and you have a nice chat and then you get to listen to the heartbeat and, you know, they get to feel around and make sure everything's going okay.
[00:11:05] Every time just felt like I was going over, especially cause you're not seeing any friends. It's like, "Oh my God, I get to go see people that I like." This is so exciting. So it felt very warm and just reassuring every time. Now ultrasounds were different, I couldn't have my partner there. It was at the hospital, so it was more official and, you know, just more doctor-like, but it was still nice. It was, it was no one was there, it was clean, it was safe. But that was a different thing compared to going to the midwifery.
[00:11:44] Lisa: Thank you. So do you want to go ahead and jump into your birth story and you can start at any point in your pregnancy that you feel like makes sense
[00:11:52] Kelsey: For sure. And then obviously Christine and Jenna, I would love for you guys to jump in whenever you want. I have a lot of foggy moments once my labor even started. So, my husband already clarified the timing on this that I have in my notes is wrong. He's like, "no, no, no, that's wrong." I'm like, okay, well I have the perfect people there to help, you know, like explicitly tell me what was happening. So I'm so excited that they're here because I want to hear from them, too, what it was like.
[00:12:26] So I'm going to start around my due date, which was September 2nd. My mom was here for a month and a half. She quarantined and everything so that she could be with me after I gave birth and meet the baby. So, she was here for my, two weeks prior to birth and the last couple of days and your due date, you're like, okay... I'm ready to have the baby now. and I actually had a really great pregnancy. if it was normal times, I feel like it would have been even better because it wouldn't have been so focused on it, but it was like a seamless pregnancy. I was a little nauseous in the beginning and tired, normal stuff like that, but all throughout, I had zero complications and I was very lucky to have such an amazing pregnancy.
[00:13:12] I felt super connected to her and it was just an awesome overall experience. But the last few days you're just like, okay, biology kicks in and you're just like, I'm ready. I hadn't talked with Jenna little bit about what an induction would look like with the midwifery and, you know, that was like, it's not going to happen. I just kept saying, I'm going to have her before. I know she's coming. She felt very low for a very long time. And the day that she came, we went for a four-mile walk around Astoria. We went to Socrates Sculpture Park and had a picnic. And my mom kept looking at me and was like, you just look uncomfortable.
[00:13:52] Are you, are you having any pain? And I was like, no. Nothing I'm fine. And that night, actually one of the recommendations from the midwifery was to dance and, I actually did do some dancing and there is footage of me shaking my hips to like "Despacito" and some like amazing music.
[00:14:13] Lisa: I love that so much
[00:14:15] Kelsey: ...bouncing on my yoga ball and just, my mom and Andrew, they were all having tequila and tacos and having the best time. And then my mom was like, tomorrow you come to our apartment for dinner. And I was like, okay. And the minute you make plans, they say, you know, things happen. So 40 weeks, three days in a Saturday night, 10:00 PM. And we were about to watch like Love Island or something.
[00:14:45] And I was so excited to watch reality television. And I was like, "Ooh, a gush, a little gush happened." And, I was like, "I think my water just broke," and Andrew was, let me take a picture. So he immediately like, took a picture of my water. And, I went into the bathroom and put a pad on because I wanted to make sure it was my water, that it wasn't just like leaking pee or whatever.
[00:15:11] So I put a pad on and waited like 15 minutes to see a water kept coming and it did. So that's when I called, I texted Christine, and then I called Jenna. and I just let them know that my water broke and who knows when it could actually go into motion. And, you know, Jenna had advice to have a glass wine and just try to relax and maybe do the, what was the movement advice you gave me, Jenna, what was it called?
[00:15:40] Jenna: Did we talk about the Miles Circuit?
[00:15:41] Kelsey: Yes, Miles Circuit. So I was like, all right, here I go. Like, I'm going to do some yoga, some Miles Circuit moves. And I had a whole plan because of your class -- in Birth Matters, it was like, don't get too excited. It's your first baby, it can take 24 hours before you even contract.
[00:16:02] So I was prepared to bake cookies for the nurses and for the midwives. And I had all these plans to keep busy during my labor. And, and my husband was watching, basketball and I remember being in the kitchen and hearing the basketball and all of a sudden being like, that's really annoying. This is really not gonna fly. So I walked in and I was like, "Is this a big game? Is this like the playoffs? Like, could you tell me more about this game?" And he was like, "Oh, so should I turn it off?" "Yeah, please do."
[00:16:41] Lisa: Did he forget what I said in class about don't go into the other room, shut the door, or keep it open and like turn on your sport of choice. Don't check out.
[00:16:51] Kelsey: Right. He thought I was going to be in labor for like low, low labor for hours. So he was behind me being able to cook and walk around and maybe we would be, I go to sleep. So he was like, not at all in the thought of me being an actual labor. And then I put my yoga mat out and I put all my affirmation cards around me and my crystals and my candles.
[00:17:16] And I had this whole plan to do the miles circuit and I started to do child's pose and I was like, "Oh yeah, I'm contracting." So I feel like that was around 11. So an hour after my water broke, I was feeling contractions. And I said to Andrew, I was like, you know, I don't want to have to time these so soon, but it's happening a lot.
[00:17:39] Like, I don't know if I'm overreacting, I didn't want to overreact, but I was like, could you just time it and not even tell me just like time it I'm going to tell you when I feel like pain. And he was like, sure, sure. So I was trying to do miles circuit and I couldn't, I was too uncomfortable to even do yoga poses or to stretch in any way. I was like, that's not feeling good. Good. So, then it went blurry for me all of a sudden. So around 11:30, there's video of me on my yoga ball and I don't even remember changing. I was in a nightgown on my yoga ball, Friends was on and I was moaning on my yoga ball, like completely contracting every now I know, five minutes. So really quickly an hour after my water broke, it was about five minutes for 30 seconds each. And then I was like, all right, I don't feel comfortable out here in the living room. I need to go to my bedroom and that's what felt safe for me. And I just remember going into my bedroom and putting, I was like, I wanted candles to be a part of this, like so bad.
[00:18:47] So I was bringing the candles into my room. Andrew is helping me. And he was in the room with me, just lying next to me while I laid on my side. Which is what felt the best, the whole time, pretty much. And I was just like already feeling intense, contractions and, you know, I described this feeling to my friends who, who wanted to know afterwards as almost like a miniature flu, every time I had a contraction, so I would get like shaky body. And I'd feel like, just like the chills. And then I would get to the height of the contraction and I'd feel like I was going to vomit. And then after I hit the height and the vomiting feeling, it would kind of subside for half a second and then it would start again. So it was like, I had like a bunch of miniature flus really fast. And then I told Andrew that he had to call Christine because I was starting to feel like unbearable. Like I needed just comfort measures that he wasn't able to fully give.
[00:19:55] And he told her and Christine, you can jump in, like, I don't know exactly. What he said, but he had said that he thinks it was time. And this was around one 30 in the morning, right?
[00:20:06] Christine: Yeah. I have some notes... you texted me a 10 to say your water broke. and I told you to put on an adult diaper and time five contractions and then call your midwife.
[00:20:16] And then, after you talked to Jenna, we connected again and you told me they were five minutes apart, lasting 20 seconds. So, I told you to eat small frequent meals, drink water and pee. And then at midnight, you texted to say that pain was getting more intense and then it switched to Andrew. Then it was like, okay, now I know it's serious.
[00:20:36] Cause now it's the partner who's texting me. And I asked him if you guys would prefer to be alone or have me come. And he said that you guys were good for now. And then at 1:00 AM he sent me the video of you contracting on the birth ball. And that just said, this is where we're at. And you, you were like vocalizing a lot.
[00:20:52] And I was like, you know, do you want me to come? Like, I'm more than happy to come whenever you don't want to be just, just the two of you and he's. And then at one 30 he texted me a half an hour later and said, okay, we're ready. So I came, and that's the timing on my side of things.
[00:21:08] Lisa: And you were probably able to get there pretty quickly given you're in the same town neighborhood.
[00:21:11] Christine: Yeah. I biked to our prenatals and then for the birth, my husband drove me because I have all my stuff with me and we have this method where we tell our neighbors that he's leaving for a minute. So that God forbid, there's like a fire like our kids are sleeping.
[00:21:25] So our neighbors know that we have it all down pat. But yeah, I got there like within five minutes and Kelsey was in bed and then we just kinda like got up and we, we did like our own little, like, you know, let's go to the shower and then that sit on the toilet, then let's go back to bed, then let's do it all again until like, you just couldn't take it anymore.
[00:21:49] Kelsey: And it's funny the shower. I thought I was going to love water. Like all throughout my pregnancy, I took baths. It was like my safe place. I really love going to the beach and just staring at the ocean. I grew up by the ocean. And so water's always been like something that I imagined being a big part of my labor.
[00:22:11] And, I actually wasn't that into it. I don't know if you guys could say that, but every time I was in the water, I was like, annoyed. I was like, Oh, this doesn't feel right. Like, this doesn't feel like the place I don't want to get her out. And I felt like no joke, and you guys will have more to say about the end of my birth, but I felt like she was coming.
[00:22:35] I was like, there's no way I'm making it to the hospital. This is insane. And you know, Christine was so great with massage and that was way more comforting to me than any water. So massage and oils and all of that was so much more helpful. And I started to feel like around three, four, I was like, I need to get to the hospital.
[00:22:57] Like, I, I knew that in order for me to feel safe, I needed to be near the hospital. I needed to, you know, know that Jenna was going to be there soon. And that, that just like there would be no chance that she would come at the house. I had mentally prepared for being at the hospital, my whole labor & pregnancy.
[00:23:16] So I knew that would be the ultimate comfort. You know, if I had prepared for a home birth, I knew that wouldn't have been on my mind, but because I had known that I would be going in a car, getting to a hospital, I wanted to do that when I felt like it was feasible, because a couple of things, we had a driver planned, which was, my brother in law, Matt, lives in Kensington, Brooklyn.
[00:23:40] So it's about, you know, with traffic an hour, but because we were in the middle of the night, you know, 30, 25-minute drive and we wanted to prepare him, before to get ready to come to us. So I knew he had to prepare to get there and then we'd have to get to the hospital. So I had two drives in my mind, that needed to happen.
[00:24:01] So I started to vocalize pretty intensely that we needed to call Matt and get him moving. I wanted him in motion as quickly as possible. So, Christine, I feel like you could say a little more about that. I think I was demanding he come soon.
[00:24:19] Christine: Yeah you were so afraid that you were going to give birth in your bed and you were like, "I feel her like down in my butt," and I was like, "I want you to know that's just the beginning. Like she's not coming. If she was really coming, I would see her, you know, like even if I see her, she's still not coming right away. Like we're going to get there. Don't worry.
[00:24:39] Kelsey: Now I know that.
[00:24:41] Christine: I was like, "even if you feel her, we'll still get there in time, but just the fact that you feel her on your butt, it doesn't mean she's coming out. You know, like that's just her coming down into placement, but -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Jenna -- but I was just like, I know you're not gonna, we're not going to have this baby in the car. You're going to be okay. But I did tell Andrew to call his brother-in-law and he can just come and hang out on the couch until you're ready to leave.
[00:25:02] But I felt bad that that was like, in your mind that you were worried. But he got there really fast and we got downstairs. And we got in the car. And I just remember you laying down on your side, with your head in my lap. And it felt like such a nurturing, like maternal moment, because you were like laying on your side.
[00:25:20] And I just was like stroking your hair and we're counting breaths. And it was really nice. And Andrew was in the front seat and I felt like we got there really fast. And I felt like you said that too. And we're like, okay, okay. Can calm down.
[00:25:34] Kelsey: Yeah. I know Lisa had said like the car ride was something that was really intense for her when you gave birth. Okay. So I remember thinking like, I, you know, I just don't want it to the torture. I want to be, I don't want to lose contractions. I want it to be smooth. So, Christine was so great at keeping me calm and she was like, narrating the drive, like we're over the bridge. Like we're already to Manhattan. Like just kind of keeping me, I like to be in the know, as you're learning.
[00:26:05] So her kind of telling me exactly where we were, helped me visualize the drive that I had done so many times and just keep me calm. And it was like 14 minutes. Cause it was the middle of the night, which was golden. Like we were like, we need to go into labor in the middle of the night because New York City is not on your side.
[00:26:24] So it was great. Cause everything was fast as far as like getting to places and Matt getting to us.
[00:26:31] Lisa: Kelsey, can I ask Christine a quick question. I was intrigued by the idea to narrate where we are and everything. Is that something that you find in general helpful or is it very customized to your client and their disposition?
[00:26:45] Christine: They actually taught me that in training. They said, you know, like you're most likely going to be in a cab and you're going to be able to see on the driver's smartphone, like how far away you are. So you just tell your client, like, Hey, we're halfway there we're 10 minutes away. But it is customizable because if the person is really deep in their labor it is customizable. Like you said, if someone is really concentrating hard and like maybe they prefer to have music in their ears and have an eye mask on and just be like within. Then they shouldn't even know that they're in a car, like, but it was obvious that Kelsey would want it. It would make her feel safe to know that we were almost there. It was like, Oh my God, we're already on the Queensboro. We're halfway through the Queensborough. Like, Oh my God, we're on fifth Avenue. she was still contracting really hard, but it was helpful for her to know that like it's, we're going to be there in an instant.
[00:27:38] Lisa: Hmm. Great. Thank you.
[00:27:41] Kelsey: So we pulled up to the hospital and it was empty. It was like a ghost town. It felt like I was like, is this an abandoned hospital? I mean, it was like 4:30 in the morning and they could tell, I was like in labor, they were like, get her wheelchair. And I was very nervous about being alone in triage. I was very vocal. About wanting either Andrew or Christine to be with me and because of COVID they had to do testing. So they kept saying like, they have to go get their tests done. And I was like, can't they go one at a time? Like, why do they have to go together?
[00:28:17] So I immediately was, you know, advocating for one of them to be with me in triage, pretty loudly, and I felt very intense labor at that point. I felt like it was every three minutes for a minute long. It was, it just seemed like it was going really fast. And, you know, if Andrew were here, he's on baby duty, but if he were here, he would say his biggest fear was we'd get there and they'd be like. "You're three centimeters." So he was like, "Oh God, please." Like, cause he knew how much I wanted an unmedicated birth. And he was like, if this is two, three centimeters, there is no way we're going to be able to do this without an epidural, and it's just, it's going down depending on how far along she is. So he was so grateful to hear that I was 7, almost eight centimeters when we got into triage. And, you know, I feel like a hospital birth can be intimidating. And I went with a, you know, happy medium of having a midwife and being in a hospital for me, that's what felt comfortable and safe. And I mean, a birthing center would be awesome, and the midwifery used to have that, but now this is the, the way that they have to deliver in New York City for now. So, I felt good about this decision, but I have to say like something Lisa that you talked a lot about in your class was advocacy.
[00:29:51] And I felt like I was, I had that in my mind. I was like, I'm going to advocate for what I want, what, how I want it as much as I can. And that stuck out for the whole time. I don't think I got shy. I don't know. You guys can speak up too. But I wanted to make sure that what I wanted was heard and if not, Christine could say it or Andrew could say it.
[00:30:19] You know, it's not Andrew's personality to be like super assertive. So I was happy to have a doula and midwife there to, to advocate for me. But that's something that I just want to say clearly is women need to make sure that they're advocating for what they want and how they want it to go from the beginning, from triage to post birth and in recovery. There's a whole span of time that you're there and you need to make sure that it’s clear. So right when I got there, I was annoyed with them. They had bright lights on in the triage and the nurse kept, I need to get a Hep lock and she kept stabbing my hand and I'd contract as she would try to get the hep lock in me or get blood. There were things happening already that I was like, this is a lot I'm contracting and you're, you're stabbing while I'm contracting and it hurts, even more obviously when you're doing that. So can you stop and, you know...they had to get a different nurse to come in; a more experienced nurse, because I was contracting very quickly and to get that put on me was they were having trouble, with me not moving.
[00:31:33] So, and again, Christine, if you have more to say about that-- I know you were there for parts of it.
[00:31:39] Christine: Yeah. I got to join you in triage, like halfway through your triage. So I was there for the poking. And yeah, I remember we talked about in our prenatals that like, whenever I see my client come out of triage, they kind of look like they just have been through war.
[00:31:55] And I hope that I prepared you for that moment because it's like, you go in like so excited and you come out a triage kind of, like you said, like they take your clothes off. They make you put on a gown. They, they poke you with things. They ask you a million questions, it's bright. But then you get to your labor and delivery room with your midwife and I feel like it calmed down again. But when I saw you, I instantly recognized that look of like, girl, what is happening, you know? And you were like, I want this pulse ox off my finger. And you said that to the nurse. You're like, how long does this have to be on? And you were really advocating for yourself, but triage is like really rough and it's really hard to go from your cocoon to that, but then it does calm down after.
[00:32:36] Kelsey: Yeah, and it felt like an hour, but Andrew was like, it was like 20 minutes. I was like, gosh, how long were we in there? And I was just so sensitive at that point.
[00:32:49] Lisa: What is time in labor anyway, right? You enter labor land.
[00:32:53] Kelsey: Yes and definitely felt that transition coming like of this is getting unbearable and it's really hard.
[00:33:03] I started to feel emotional. Once we got into the labor and delivery room. Christine and Jenna can step in now. I--it's foggy. So what I remember is I walked in and I did see, like, it was what I imagined, you know, Christine had, or somebody, I assume Christine, put like my little tea lights out and my affirmation cards on the wall in front of the bed.
[00:33:30] And it was just what I wanted. It was peaceful. Jenna was there. And Elaine was there. Another midwife from the midwifery. And so it was good to see familiar faces and feel safe, like, okay, this is where it's going to happen. And then--
[00:33:44] Lisa: I just want to mention that Elaine shared her birth story earlier in this season and she attended a birth of another birth story that was shared right before she shared her own baby's birth story. Just to kind of connect the dots for listeners.
[00:33:58] Kelsey: So, yeah, I don't even know what time that was. Again, Jenna, you can step in if you want, and just kind of give your perception of that
[00:34:05] Jenna: So that was about five o'clock in the morning at that point and to backtrack a little bit, I remember that call very clearly. When you called at about 10 o'clock and had just broken your water. And it was very clear that you had done your research and learned exactly what to say. It was almost a textbook conversation, Kelsey, because you said I just, I feel fine. But I just want to call and let you know; I broke my water and here's the time and the color and the amount of it. It was perfect.
[00:34:34] I was like, this is coming from a whole birth team; this is awesome. So at that point, yeah, you weren't contracting at all. You were like, I feel okay -- you were excited. We're going to try to burn through some of that energy and hopefully tuck in, go to sleep, get a good night's sleep and wake up in the morning with some light contractions.
[00:34:54] So the fact that things went so fast for you is pretty atypical. So that also really colors this whole story for a first-time mom, to break your water and then be in active labor immediately, is a really, really important, special, unique part of your story. So at that point I remember five o'clock I saw Christine, I checked in, said, you know how we have spoken earlier on the phone when you were really intensely in labor. Checked in with Christine. What positions are working? How is she doing? And I just remember the first thing on Christine's face was or out of her mouth was, she missed early labor. She didn't have an early labor. You didn't have that moment of candles and yoga and all of the things that you were hoping for at home to prepare you for active labor. So you hit active labor fast and furious, and coped with that amazing. You did an amazing job, Kelsey. So we got to the labor room and you were yes, basically in transition at about five in the morning.
[00:36:03] Kelsey: Yes. And, yeah, I was so excited for that early labor. It didn't happen. And I kept, I remember I kept asking Christine, when will I get a break? When will I get a break? Will I ever get a break? They say there's a break. And I didn't. I don't think I got a break. I, and I had been up for like 28 hours. It was just like a nonstop, because it happened right at bedtime. It was like all night.
[00:36:33] And I had been up that whole day before walking a ton, dancing, like the amount of energy I exuded prior to giving birth was huge. And so at this point I was dead. I was so tired. I was like, alright, I'm done. And, I don't remember exactly what time I was 10 centimeters, but around, I would guess like 7:00 AM.
[00:36:58] I don't know, Jenna, maybe you know, but
[00:37:00] Jenna: it was around nine
[00:37:01] Kelsey: Nine. Okay.
[00:37:03] I knew it was the morning. I remember looking out the window of the hospital, which is really beautiful at Mount Sinai West, but I was like, it's sunny, how long have I been doing this? And so then this is where it got hard for me. you know, not to say the first 10 hours, weren't challenging.
[00:37:24] They were really hard, but you know, I, I had read about this fear that can come. Into play around time of transition from 10 centimeters to pushing the baby out. and you know, all three chords know I United prep my mind with meditation and all of these things like beer is not gonna. Stop you like love will come in and it will be, you'll get through it and it's going to be okay.
[00:37:51] And you're meant to do this, and this is your body or human being, and you're a woman strong. You've worked out like you prep for the marathon. I just have to get past the finish line. I feel like I froze. Like, I don't know if I was exhausted because of everything prior probably, or fear or combination of all of those things. But I just remember feeling like done. When I hit 10 centimeters, I felt like, okay, I can't do this anymore. And she's good in there. And I'm good with her and me. And so that's when I think. I needed a lot more coaching and help. And, you know, I had said to Christine and our tons of meetings and notes, and I can't do coached pushing.
[00:38:44] I want it to come out naturally. She needs to just kind of fly out of my vagina and it's going to be beautiful. No, no, no, no. I needed lots of coaching. And so nine o'clock. I was 10 centimeters. She was born at 12, so it took a few hours to get her to come out. And I'd love for you both to talk about techniques or vibes you were getting from me.
[00:39:09] My husband describes it as like the "never ending almost there." He was like, everyone kept saying you're almost there and you weren't. And he was, I had told him like, kind of old fashioned, " I don't want you to see my vagina. I want you to stay by my head. Like, I just feel like to keep it you know, it was just something my mom always said, just keep them by your head, you know? And it was just something I wanted to do. And quickly after like two hours, he was like, what the hell is going on down there? They keep saying it's almost happening. She's coming and I don't see anything happening. So he then was like, I need to see this. This is like, Too much. So he looked and he was like, okay, I see what they mean.
[00:39:57] Now I can like be that champion for her and like get her to go because I think he was doubting that I was almost there. And then when he saw like the sliver of dark hair, he was like, Oh my goodness. She really is almost here. Now I have to be the one that's going to like to push you through, and that's when his energy changed and help me kind of feel like we could do it. And, you know, he got behind me. He was like, you know, I wanted him close to me. I wanted him to like to hug me. I wanted him next to me. It was like an experience of like, we're a family and I need you to kind of be right here with me, like this is going to, it's going to be what gets me through this.
[00:40:42] So, Christine was on one side, Andrew was on the other, Jenna was at the forefront of everything and nurses. I remember Elaine, nurses everyone was telling me, "you have to push, you gotta push, you gotta push." And I just kept saying, "I can't." And they'd say, "you are," like, am I? And I just remember feeling, A lot of intense pain, it felt like, a bowling ball was like pushing my pelvis apart, as you can imagine. And like, I felt like bones were breaking. Like, it just felt like my body was like becoming a different thing, which it is. But you feel like a superhero, like you're transitioning from one thing to another and you have to like, like become this like animalistic thing. And I think I was. Still the preschool teacher, like, you know, and I needed to change. I needed to, a warrior mother, you know? And --
[00:41:44] Lisa: Do you remember that quote that I read at the end of your childbirth series about that breaking point and from going from maiden to mother. Do you remember that? It reminds me what you're sharing is really reminding me of that moment. When you find that within yourself.
[00:42:02] Kelsey: Yes. And it took a lot for me. It wasn't easy. Like I have heard many birth stories and I've heard, like I just knew I had to push and get this thing out. And I didn't feel that for a while. Like, I did not feel the urge to push until the last, like. Hour, which sounds like a long time up until the first two hours.
[00:42:26] I was like, no, like this still just really hurts. there's no urge to get her out. I just feel like it feels better to not push. And then finally the last hour, with a lot of coaching and counting, I felt more of the urge. So what would happen was, and if Jenna or Christine, you guys want to say, but they would be counting and I'd get to the pain and I'd stop pushing.
[00:42:47] So it would get to the place of like she was moving and then I'd be like, no, I can't. so it would get. There and then I'd stop. So lots of microbiome for a little Emmy. She was in there long time. And, she, I don't, the midwives were so calm, like Jenna and Elaine were so good at remaining very calm and despite whatever was happening with any or the heart monitoring.
[00:43:21] I’m sure there was a lot happening that I have no idea because they were very common, more like, stressing you out in any way. and I just felt like, let me be what I had to be. And it took me a really, really long time to want to push her out. And I remember Elaine like looked at me and was like. Okay, now you have to do this. Jenna was so calm and so sweet. And like she was using the coconut oil and a warm washcloth. And it was like the most amazing feeling by the way, highly recommend a warm washcloth. I never would have thought to put that in my birth plan, but Jenna did that and it was like amazing.
[00:43:59] It felt so relaxing. And Elaine was like, all right, now you gotta do it. And I was like, but it's so hard. She's like, I know it's the hardest thing you're ever going to do, but you got to do it. It's like, okay, all right, they're getting firm now. I have to do something. So I think Andrew was like, alright, when I'm counting, I'm gonna count down and then when you get to that point of like, I can't do it, that's when we're going to start pushing. So he like shifted my mind to instead of thinking I'm pushing when the counting started, it's going to start pushing when I used to feel the pain, so I would push and then the pain would happen and I would repush so that's, I think when movement started to really happen. And I imagined like pushing her out squatting or like off the bed or some random part of the room. And I wanted to be in the bed. Like my comfort was in bed, on my side. Then the stirrups came and that's the way she was coming. I mean, it was like, here we go. Like, this is what's going to work. Now I did other positions, if you guys want to talk about them, but,
[00:45:07] Jenna: Sure. Yeah. We have all sorts of tips and tricks to try to get babies out, as you can imagine. And positions were, you know, our first try, we got the squat bar out. You were squatting for a while in those first couple hours. I think when you first, initially started like really pushing you were standing by the bed. Even before that point though, I think that fatigue really was setting in. So in the last few hours of your labor before pushing, you didn't, you didn't get a break at any point, like you had said. So we tried the shower to relax you. Didn't really work. Back to bed. Kind of back and forth a few times. But just lying in bed. I think your leg was up on a peanut ball, just trying to relax and relax the baby down. That actually really, really works when you've been working as hard as you had been at that point. So I think a little bit of rest got you there. So it's, it makes total sense that you felt safe just being in bed, pushing in bed. I think a lot of times, first-time moms have this, desire to do what you just said and, and push in all the positions and, and, you know, like birth in a field somewhere with flowers growing around you. But you do what works in the moment and, and for you, you know, rest and absorbing the energy in the room. So part of it too, was getting Andrew in bed behind you once he was charged off, like, okay. Yeah. And he's really coming, first of all, his voice saying that to you, but then physically getting behind you, holding you up, having you absorb his energy, trying to get this to be the family effort that it was. So that was a really, really beautiful moment. I think, you know, it wasn't until you were pushing and kind of reaching that plateau of like, "Oh, is she going to come?" that we said, "Let's try...do you guys have a labor playlist? Let's try some music." And before that, everything was really calm. I think maybe some ambient noise. We had some waves going, but that was the first moment that we turned on like actual songs.
[00:47:13] And I don't know, maybe you can tell me what the first song was Kelsey, but when that first song went on, you were squatting at the squat bar. Andrew was behind you. And you just broke down and you just had this beautiful cathartic cry. And I think that was the moment at which things turned to course. You just needed to let the rest of that out and then push your baby out and you did. So, that music in that moment too, I think, was really helpful for you.
[00:47:46] Kelsey: Yeah. So, you know, it's funny in my brain before Andrew filled me in on the music part, I thought music was playing the whole time. So I don't know if it was in my head or what, but in my mind, I was like, there was music the whole time. It was my playlist. But no, there were waves going and which is equally beautiful in my mind to hear waves. But you know, and I also thought that the playlist was random, but Andrew was doing the music. I thought the playlist, the music that was coming up was on shuffle.
[00:48:19] And I just thought, oh my God, like how spiritual, like the music knows me, like. I had no idea Andrew was manning the playlist the whole time. So the reason I think I lost it was because the first song that came on meant so much to me. And I thought it was random. Like I was like, "What? How? God? Spirit? What is this?" Like, you know, I was very close to my Nana and, she helped raise me and was like a huge part of my life. She passed away about a year ago, suddenly. And she was young in her late sixties. And, so music for us was our connection. So in that moment, like I thought she was sending me the song and maybe she was through Andrew; I don't know. Cause he doesn't know, every song that we loved, but it was this artist that we actually had seen multiple times together. And, it was just a special song for us. So I think in that moment, I had no idea my husband was playing puppeteer with music, but it really just got to me and yeah, I think it like music always is my number one connection to spirituality and just feeling connected to people I've lost and I think it just hit hard and I was like, she must know. Emmy's almost here. I need to be strong. You know, I just felt like my Nana was there with me, spiritually and that was kind of what that emotion was. And I think you need to cry it out when you're in labor and when you're transitioning, and it helps release the baby. It helps provide that, that lubricant, that, that gets her going. So, and also another thing with Christine, I remember looking at Christine and being like, you know, thinking like, "You did this twice. Like, how? Why would you ever do it again?" I kept thinking that in the middle of the pushing, I was like, why do people do this so many times? You know, obviously epidurals like, duh. No, but, I, you know, something that really stuck with me throughout my whole labor was the positives of a natural birth. The recovery positive sides are so high. And I wanted that. I wanted to feel good after I got her out of me. And I have to say like the minute she was on my chest and like that feeling is unbelievable.
[00:50:52] And I've heard from other friends who had never zero, like, it wasn't as great. It was like there were aftereffects. I mean, Hey, I might do an epidural, but I have to say this this time, this experience was so memorable and so special because as soon as she came out, all those natural hormones came rushing over me and I wanted to get her on my boob and I wanted, you know, the latch was so special and there's a video of me that Andrew took when she came out and I sound like a different person.
[00:51:26] Number one, like your voice changes. You're hysterical. So there's like emotion and your voice changes. But I think there's like hormone. Like there's a reason your whole demeanor is like, it's different. It's I don't even recognize myself in this video of when she came out and she was put on my chest and I was like, like, my octaves were even higher than I've ever heard.
[00:51:53] And he put "Harvest Moon" on, which is Emmy's middle name is Moon. For many reasons, but one of them was because during quarantine, when we were coming up with her name, we could see the moon outside of our bedroom window. And it kind of just kept us like grounded all through my pregnancy and made us feel like connected to earth and nature, even though we're in the middle of Manhattan.
[00:52:16] And so, we knew we wanted her name to have some symbolism with nature. And the moon just like stuck out to us. So harvest moon is a song, another song that my Nana and I would dance to and loved. And, it was playing when she was put on my chest and I was like, "Moonie...you're Moon." And I just kept calling her Moon and, you know, she was a little purple when she came out and, I remember thinking like, I don't have time to worry about that cause I know she's okay.
[00:52:47] You know, so I wasn't worried when I saw that she was not pink and screaming right when she came out and I knew she went through a really intense journey being inside my birth canal for a really long time. So, there was an amazing nurse who came over and was like, let me get all this gook out of her.
[00:53:05] She's like, get her to sing, like Whitney Houston, get her to yell, tell her that it's okay to cry. And I was like, okay. "Baby, you can cry now." Like telling her to cry. And I was hitting her back, you know, she said, "you know, rub her back. Like you're burping her." So I remember like pushing her back and she started screaming and like, all this stuff came out of her.
[00:53:28] It was like, amniotic fluid, whatever. I mean, you guys could probably know better than me. But I was just like, "Whoa, that was a lot." And then she immediately like latched and Andrew did skin to skin as my placenta was coming out. And my placenta, I had a whole plan too. Like, I had thought that I would want to save it, maybe get it encapsulated, but I was so freaking tired.
[00:53:51] Like I couldn't even think about the placenta. I saw it. And I remember Jenna did it so cute with like a little heart with the cord. And I was like, take a picture. I'll appreciate that later. But in that moment, I just remember thinking, I just want to go to sleep. Like, I remember loving the baby so much, but also thinking, does she get to go to a nursery?
[00:54:12] Like some moms are like, "I don't want them to leave," but I remember feeling so tired and I was like, it won't be safe if she's with me after this. Like I need to sleep like, self-care 101. Like, I can't be there for her if I'm this tired. So once we got into our recovery room, the nurse was like, do you want us to take her?
[00:54:34] It's you have to be COVID-free. Everyone has to be COVID-free to go to the nursery, but we all were. So I was like, yes, yes. I think I need that time to just eat and sleep. So Andrew ordered Shake Shack, and we had burgers in our room and cheers to each other for like getting through such an amazing experience.
[00:54:55] And she came back around 1:30 in the morning and I was up the rest of the time. Like she was on my chest and I was too afraid to fall asleep with her on my chest. So I just...no one talks about the exhaustion and how you're alone now. And Andrew was also exhausted. So he passed out of course so easily.
[00:55:19] And I'm sitting there balancing this newborn on my chest. And Andrew had put the tea lights all around me in my hospital bed and he put music on, and he made sure I was okay. Then he went to sleep. He's like, "She'll sleep, she'll be fine. Just put her in the bassinet." And she wouldn't, she wanted to on me and we sat there and I put TV on and ambient noise and I just like kind of chilled with her from 2:00 AM to the next morning. And I was only in the hospital for a little over 24 hours. I mean, we were in there by, what was it? Five in the morning and we were out the next day by 12, like 24 hours from when she was born, they came and looked at her. The midwifery quickly got me cleared to be able to leave early.
[00:56:09] It was my choice. I wanted to go home soon, sooner than later. So, they were very quick to virtually check in with me and get me going. And Emmy also was cleared very quickly through the hospital. So--
[00:56:24] Lisa: Kelsey, can I ask Jenna a question real quick, along those lines. So Jenna, I know that a lot of the hospitals during the times of COVID have been discharging patients a full day earlier than normal. But I also know that at Mount Sinai West, at least when the birthing center was still in existence, it was standard to go home, like I went home 12 hours after birth that early discharge was standard. So I'm just curious with your midwifery practice being at that hospital, it mostly due to COVID early discharge? Or do you kind of take it on a case by case basis with your clients and sometimes send them home early if they prefer that.
[00:57:00] Jenna: Yeah, I think earlier in the year it was definitely, more related to COVID, but that's, that's it. I joined the practice in August. So now we're definitely, as with most things in our care, approaching each client with what they'd like to do, most of our clients want to be home recovering at home as soon as possible. And as long as everything is safe to do so we're happy to make for that can happen. so generally, the earliest our clients go home is 24 hours. But some people do really like to take advantage of the extra care, with the nursing and breastfeeding lactation consultants, all in postpartum, for those first two days. And that's fine too. We kind of just approach, you know, parents and families as they, as they come
[00:57:46] Lisa: Love it. Love the personalized individualized care. That's so great. Thank you, Jenna.
[00:57:52] Christine: I just wanted to mention that I think the fact that you had midwives, as opposed to OB, like, there's just so many things that stand out from the doula perspective, like the fact that you didn't have to have continuous fetal monitoring is such a huge deal because I've seen births go from totally fine to a C-section because of the monitoring.
[00:58:13] So the fact that like your midwives allowed you to just. Do it, and then they would come in when they needed to and check you. But that's like a huge thing that I think a lot of people don't realize about having like a standard OB birth. And then your midwives were in the room more than an OB would.
[00:58:29] And Jenna was hands on. It was in the bathroom, putting the shower, head on your back. She was massaging you. Like that doesn't happen without midwives. So, I think that that's like a huge part of why you had such a great birth and, And I'm so glad that you mentioned your demeanor change. Cause I noticed that, and I never said anything, but your voice changed the minute she came out in your room. You were like, "I love you, Emmy!" You were just like, it's like the labor never happened. You were just so happy and like your voice was definitely like higher an octave, but it was like so clear that there was no lack of bonding hormones there. It was so beautiful. And then I also was going to say that Andrew was so great, and he would like break down crying at different points throughout it.
[00:59:13] And it was so beautiful. It wasn't like he was crying because he was afraid. He was just so, he knew how beautiful and special this moment was. And it was just so raw and beautiful. So, I just wanted to say that. That's so sweet.
[00:59:26] Jenna: I have to jump in there to that moment right after the delivery was your, your full intention was making sure Emmy knew that she was born into love.
[00:59:36] And you just told her over and over again, "I love you. I love you. Emmy, you are so loved," and you looked at Andrew and you said kiss her. I mean, and said he loves her. She, that first moment. So, so important before anything else happened, you were doing your delayed cord clamping. She was fine. She was great the entire time you were pushing, we were watching, as calm as we were, we would be less calm if she was showing us any indication of otherwise. But that first moment after she was out was your moment, all for your family. And you made sure, as exhausted as you were, you made sure she knew she was loved. From the first moment of her life. And it was really beautiful thing to be a part of.
[01:00:20] Lisa: All the chills, love it.
[01:00:23] Kelsey: It's so nice to hear. And Andrew, yeah, he's a very quiet person. He's an observer, I'm a loud, outgoing partner. And he is very emotional, though. And he, I kept seeing his eye--because he had a mask on the whole time--and I kept seeing his eyes like red and watery, like throughout my labor.
[01:00:44] And I remember I asked him, "are you okay?" And he's like, "why are you asking me that? Are you okay? You don't need to worry about me," but I remember, you know, just seeing him and feeling his energy the whole time. You know, he is a more like stoic person and I could just sense his overwhelmed feeling of love and appreciation.
[01:01:06] And, I've said that to him many, many times in regards to the birth and the labor. It was exactly what I needed. Someone strong and quiet next to me. Like I told him, like, don't feel like you need to urge me to do anything or be my cheerleader. I don't need a cheerleader, but you know, in the end I did like, at the very end, he needed to count for me. He needed to kiss me. He needed to hug me. I really did need an advocate for me to push. So, Christine, all four of you guys. Elaine, Jenna, Christine and Andrew were really amazing at getting me there. And, I literally, I visualized my birth for so long and it was better than I imagined. So, I know some, a lot of people say like, it was awful.
[01:01:55] It wasn't, it was the opposite of what I imagined. You can't write what you want, but I had a lot of time to manifest what I wanted. I had a lot of time in quarantine to really, really visualize what type of birth I don't want it to have. And I think, you know, I did. And, and yeah, I'm so grateful and I would, if I do have a baby again, I would a hundred percent, same the same exact thing.
[01:02:24] You know, I don't know. I'm curious of what the professionals see with epidural and like the differences, because my friends who have them, they're like, we didn't even feel it. It was like, I'm like, "really? Like, that is wild." Like, but the aftereffects can be really hard, or they can not be, it just depends.
[01:02:44] Every woman is different. So I just heard so many stories about the epidural being a slippery slope into something else. And I just was like, I don't want the slope. I need to stay on my path and stick it out. But if I hear from you guys that like epidural is worth it, I don't know. Like, but in my own research, I felt like I needed to do it as natural as I could. So grateful I was able to.
[01:03:11] Jenna: So glad to hear that you had, you know, the birth that you were aiming for and that you had, you know, done all this research and, and had this experience and knew the benefits for yourself. And that was definitely a big part of your labor and your, your, what did you call, focus cards, to remind yourself of the benefits of a natural delivery and, that really worked for you.
[01:03:38] And I think that it's really easy for people to say this one intervention, this one epidural was what caused all of these other things or was what impaired my bonding. And I think really, it's kind of easy to look at one thing, but if you look at the whole course and all of the interventions that happen over the course of the labor, any of those things can, can affect your bonding or your care.
[01:04:07] Some people it's essential to have an epidural for their labor. It's what helps. It's what they need. It's what makes them feel safe. And so that helps their bonding. But I think the goal is to really approach a laboring person and honor their identity and their being with what's gonna work best for them. So epidurals are great for some and not for others. And either way is fine. Either way's a birth.
[01:04:33] Kelsey: Right. Exactly. And, I remember the nurse next to me. So she was there the whole time. She was like, whispering to me. Do you want an epidural?
[01:04:45] I was like, "No! Don't whisper that to me. Don't tempt me, you temptress!"
[01:04:55] Lisa: They will offer it a lot. Many, most nurses. I would dare say will constantly offer it. Cause they, you know, they think it's the humane thing to do.
[01:05:04] Kelsey: Right. So, yeah, that's the birthing story, I would say.
[01:05:13] Lisa: Beautiful. That's so wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing all of that.
[01:05:18] As we start to wind things down, are there any things you wanted to share about postpartum, breastfeeding, healing, or, or just any insights that you would want to share with listeners-- with expectant parents or new parents?
[01:05:32] Kelsey: Yeah, the real work begins postpartum. I, well, I have to say I had an amazing recovery.
[01:05:40] I believe it's been, you know, physically I could have been up and at 'em really quickly. And I was told by midwives, by my doula, by books to not. So I did honor that I stayed on laid up, like on my couch or my bed for as long as I could. I was lucky enough, even though it gets COVID and there's a lot of parameters to seeing people, my mom and sister did quarantine.
[01:06:09] So they were able to, they greeted me & Andrew and Emmy with flowers all over my apartment and food filled up into the fridge to the max. And they had music playing and it was just such a beautiful thing to walk into like my home with two people I love most with all of these things ready for me.
[01:06:29] I had baskets, Christine advised me to have baskets throughout the house, and I feel like Lisa, you might have also said this, but just full of things that you need for postpartum. So the Frida, I used a lot, the peri bottle. the peri bottle, the witch hazel wipes, the frozen pads, all of that was ready. And I needed all of that. I needed all of that probably for the first five days. Pretty intensely. Oh, the mesh underwear from the hospital. Yes. Ask for more, always take as much as you can. I brought an empty backpack and they filled it up with. All of the stuff like you would recommend it. And
[01:07:05] Lisa: Smart tip. I've never mentioned when I say, hey, bring as many supplies home as you can that you'll need an extra bag, but that's such a good tip.
[01:07:13] Kelsey: Yeah. I just brought like a foldable backpack and I handed it to my nurse and I was like, put, like, I love the underwear and I love the witch hazel pads. Like please put a lot of that. So she did, and used all of them. I would still use those mesh underwear. I would buy them regularly. They're great. So definitely use those, and something that Christine told us to do, Andrew and me was to create a "Protected Joy" sheet full of things that bring us joy that we can have up on our fridge and not only for anyone helping us, but for each other.
[01:07:52] So things like, Andrew's joy, you know, he loves to be creative, so like go to the computer and do some graphic design. Or for me, it's to FaceTime with a friend, something that brings you back to who you are in this time. And also a dual protected joy, like going for a walk together, watching a show together, you know, simple things.
[01:08:16] It doesn't need to be so elaborate. but that was really honored throughout my postpartum.
[01:08:21] Awesome,
[01:08:21] Lisa: Kelsey. Where did, did you say Christine gave you this idea for the Protected Joy sheet?
[01:08:25] Kelsey: Yes. Yes.
[01:08:27] Lisa: I love it.
[01:08:27] Christine: I got it from Birdsong, Brooklyn, their postpartum doula trainers. So that's where that I came from.
[01:08:33] Lisa: That is awesome. Great idea.
[01:08:36] Kelsey: And it works like if you have it on your fridge, like you're reminded when you go to the fridge or when your mom is visiting. What you need, you know, so even my mom would be like, have you checked in with a friend today? Like, you know, just kind of looking at what feels good for our family and, a list of restaurants we like to eat from my mom would just quickly order, for us if we needed.
[01:09:00] And it just really helped. And you know, postpartum recovery for me, I think is going great. I've not wanted to check downstairs too often. I'm kind of like, eh, I'll see when I go to the doctor. But I feel good. And I'm walking like two miles. We try to get out as much as we can with the baby and get her outdoors, in her little carrier.
[01:09:29] And...you know, Andrew's had six weeks off with me, so we've had a very close knit-- the three of us and the cat have been very close the past six weeks and he's going back next week. And you know, of course I'm really sad, but he's going to the bedroom.
[01:09:48] Lisa: He's not
[01:09:49] Kelsey: going physically anywhere.
[01:09:50] Lisa: Not too far.
[01:09:52] Kelsey: So, but it'll be different. It'll just, it'll be me and Emmy and, you know, I'm excited for this next chapter of postpartum, But I had my mom and sister for a couple of weeks, and that was wonderful having that support. But it's hard. No one's meeting her. None of my friends are able to see her in the way that I want.
[01:10:12] We've done social distance hangs at parks, but like nothing is the same as hugging a baby and kissing a baby. And, that's hard and it's something that I've needed support with like having a therapist. Andrew and I have a couple of therapists and we have single therapist. So having that for you, you know, therapy throughout all of this has been really uplifting for us.
[01:10:33] Like he can vent to somebody unbiased about anything he's struggling with and I can do the same and then we can come together and vent together. So it's like we have that immense amount. We're very fortunate to be able to continue to have that support throughout all of this.
[01:10:48] Now breastfeeding tips. I didn't realize you got too much milk. All I thought about was not having enough. And what if I don't want, if I don't have enough milk and I have the problem of mass amounts of milk and it's, it is a problem. Like poor little thing is like, this is a lot of milk. So I had to see a lactation consultant through zoom and that helped a lot.
[01:11:14] And Christina is also a lactation counselor. So I've been texting her about it. But you know, figuring out a plan for when you have too much milk and how to best create that bond with the baby. And also, not feeling guilty about the bottle. Like, it's invented for a reason. And I am so grateful that Andrew can take my breast milk and feed her.
[01:11:37] It is a godsend. I like love that he has that time with her, and we've got her on the bottle probably three weeks after she was born. We were given the clear for that from the lactation specialist and her pediatrician. So that works for us. And I even give her bottles sometimes because I need to just a break from breastfeeding.
[01:11:59] And I think it's not talked about enough. Like it's okay if you need a break from breastfeeding, it's okay if you need to [give your] nipples an hour off. She was feeding a lot that first couple of weeks, and I was shocked by it. I was like, I have, I've kept track of every single time she's fed on an app, Huckleberry.
[01:12:16] And I look back at the beginning and she fed 21 times in one day and like, I guess that's normal, but I was like, this is not normal. Like, how is this possible? She's crazy. She keeps eating, but she was growing and now I'm on average eight times a day and sometimes seven if Andrew feeds. So it's been a journey of giving myself grace and allowing.
[01:12:44] You know, sleep is so important. And if you get an extra three hours because your husband can feed the baby at 6:00 AM. Do it. Like, and so that's something I'm advocating for parents to just kind of go easy on yourself. And I told Andrew, there's been moments where she's going through witching hour, which is a whole 'nother thing that I've learned is a lot.
[01:13:05] but I feel like, "she wants to nurse. That must be what she wants," and she'll scream at my boob, raaaaahr. And I'm like, "she doesn't want it! Why?"
[01:13:17] You know, isn't this the ultimate comfort? And you get offended because you're both tired, you're emotional. And you're like, why don't you want to nurse? It's like, that's the ultimate comfort, but. She wants bouncing on a yoga ball. That's the comfort for her. And, you know, you get to know your baby and you can't take it personally, you know, she's her own person, so,
[01:13:38] Lisa: Right? Yeah. I think something that surprises a lot of us into postpartum with breastfeeding is how emotionally tied we are and how sometimes our mental health can start to suffer due to the intensity and all of the, like if we're having challenges, then we feel inadequate and we feel like, why can't I do this is this is supposed to be natural and easy.
[01:14:03] And so I'm glad you're pointing these things out because I think it's something that we need to think about when we're pregnant. But, at the same time, experientially, it's so different. There's only so much you can hear about it or, you know, be taught or whatever. It's really something that you learn experientially. Right.
[01:14:20] Kelsey: I was a nanny to infants for twin infants from two months to a year. And I thought I was going to be a pro. Like I was like, Andrew, you don't even need to be there. Like I've got this and it is not the case. You need support, you need help and you need to ask for help. I have to ask him to bring me my water bottle way more times a day than he wants.
[01:14:44] But like, something we talk about is like, it is what it is. I have to be helpless for a minute. Like you're feeding a baby. You have to take off that. That hat of a working woman who does a hundred million things, I'd be like, no, this is my one job. And now I need support. So allowing that support and not feeling guilty for being like, eh, can you bring me my phone, water bottle, a burp cloth. And he's like, okay. It's like a hundred times, you know? So just allowing that. So, I'm very grateful to have such a supportive partner. Cause it is just us right now. Family's back in California, his family is older and we don't want to risk anything. So, we’re in this together.
[01:15:36] Lisa: Great. Thank you so much. All right. Well, final call for anything. Anyone else? Christine, Jenna, anything you'd like to say before we wrap things up today?
[01:15:45] Christine: No, just this was so nice. And, yeah, I really think like Kelsey, your preparations for it and your thoughtfulness in curating like a birth team and it's just such a shout out for midwifery care and doulas -- like any doula, not me, but like you get close to your doula.
[01:16:03] Like I attended your baby shower on zoom. Like, you need someone in the room when you're giving birth that knows you. So I think like doula care and midwifery care is like so important. So thanks for highlighting that.
[01:16:17] Jenna: Absolutely. I think, you know, thank you. Absolutely, thank you for having us all here with you for this birth story sharing. As much as you came to your prenatal visits, feeling like, you know, you were seeing friends, we feel that way about you as well. We're also not seeing too many people except for our patients. So we really, really do care. And, yeah, your, your birth was fantastic and so special. And you had a great team.
[01:16:49] I would advise that if anybody who's pregnant or thinking about being pregnant, it's the most important thing that you can do for yourself, creating, you know, birth preferences and the way that you want your birth to go is great. But if you have a team that's gonna support you and understand who you are, that's the most important thing that you can do.
[01:17:10] So I, yeah, love all of the work that you put into this process and really honored it in your life. Christine, it was so great chatting with you too. And I'm just throughout this whole conversation, writing down tips and tricks, they love, love, love doulas. And it was really great to meet you too, Lisa.
[01:17:30] Lisa: Indeed. I agree. And Kelsey, we celebrate you. We're all so honored to have been part of this journey. And we are just so thrilled for you, that things went in the way that you intended, and you set those intentions and we celebrate you as a new mother and Andrew as a new daddy.
[01:17:49] And, just wish you all the best as you continue to journey through parenthood. In the types of pandemic in particular.
[01:17:57] Kelsey: It's unique, but it is special. We get a lot of time with her, so it's really special. And thank you guys. And also the midwifery, like they text me to check in with me. It's amazing. Like I get texts from them every week. Like, how are you? How's it going? Christine texts me. Like, I have so much support even though it's virtual even now. So it's like, you know, I can't say it enough, like how wonderful this has all been. So thank you guys.
[01:18:27] Lisa: All right. Thank you again, everyone. Take care. Bye.
[01:18:33] Kelsey: Thank you.