The day before Nora’s & Michael’s firstborn’s 4th birthday, and about a week before their 2nd born turns 1, they share both of their stories of uncomplicated births at home. Listen to hear details of thoughtfully choosing the birth location and birth team that would be most likely to honor their hopes to have a peaceful and physiological birth both times. You’ll hear the benefits of prenatal physical training through the lens of Michael’s expertise as a personal perinatal trainer. They will both share the specific benefits of hiring a doula for both births, and will advise listeners to think carefully about what family members or others you’ll invite to be present for your labor through the tense dynamics they experienced the second time around.
Episode Topics:
Deciding well before ever pregnant that they wanted to give birth at home with midwives, thanks to a documentary Nora’s friend, Sarah (who told her birth story in the past two episodes), brought to her attention
Preparing for a homebirth, assembling birth team
Michael’s expertise in prenatal training
Successful self-induction attempt at 41 weeks, 4 days using castor oil; 1st labor starts soon thereafter
Use of printed affirmations on wall, verbal mantras as pain coping tools
Doula Laura encourages Nora to “melt” in between contractions
Midwife joins them
Things getting more and more intense over time
Midwife suggests artificially rupturing her membranes
A visual of skiing off a ski lift helping her ride the contractions
Shower head helpful
Pushing in child’s pose and then flipping over
Michael missing catching Price because Nora wouldn’t let go of his hand
Price carries on the family tradition by pooping all over Nora as soon as he’s born
Michael & Nora spontaneously start singing to Price soon after birth, right after midwife does a couple of rescue breaths on him
Getting a shot of pitocin to help uterus contract
Nora’s legs very shaky after birth, so needed help using the shower
Cleaning up after birth, optimal support from homebirth team with changing sheets, spotting her in shower, doula making Nora a protein smoothie, Michael meanwhile bonding with Price in other room; how ideal all of it was to Nora
Moving on to the second birth, comparing how prep was different from first time
Price/big brother getting to be an active participant in Nora’s/Finley’s prenatal care
Getting a birth tub from their midwives
Hiring their doula, Chandley, largely based on how much Price was immediately drawn to her (when Laura wasn’t available this time)
Challenging dynamics with Michael’s mom being present for the birth
Nora talks to baby saying she needed to labor at night when mother-in-law was sleeping, and contractions almost immediately start
Finding that a corner in the bedroom was her safe, instinctive spot for laboring
Michael begins to fill the labor tub
They call the midwife and doula, who head over shortly thereafter
When Shar comes, she lets them know that the other midwife was coming as the “birth assistant”
Midwife Carol was doing her dissertation on the effect of essential oils on labor; Nora liked wild orange
Having prepped a playlist with calming folk music
Nora goes in to Price’s bedroom to put him back to bed after a middle-of-the-night waking, coping on all fours while singing to him
Price’s range of emotions throughout labor and grandmother trying to manage his behavior
Nora responding to this with repeating the phrase, “It’s okay...it’s okay…”
Laboring in the pool
Nora stops saying the phrase and goes to holding her breath; realizing she’s entering the pushing stage
Water breaks, but a high tear so it wasn’t a huge gush
Pushing stage much faster, so fast that Nora was surprised she was crowning so soon
Touching baby’s head, breathing her out slowly
Michael gets to catch baby this time!
Had a little membrane over her head and cord wrapped around her neck
Having the (very long) cord preserved after both births
Finley also carried on the family tradition by pooping on her mom right after birth
Delaying cord clamping, Michael cutting cord
Encouraging expectant parents to really explore all their choices and enter birth with thoughtful discussions and planning
Resources:
BirthMattersnyc.com/resources (lots of resources, including doulas and lactation consultants)
The Root Therapy NYC (support groups for new & expectant parents)
Supporting Her online class for partners
Natural Breastfeeding online course (preview/read more here, but purchase with Lisa’s discount here)
eisenstein.michael@gmail.com - Michael Eisenstein, personal trainer (prenatal and otherwise)
eisensteinsacademy@gmail.com - Michael’s TKD school
Midwifery Care NYC (Carol Bues & Shar LaPorte, homebirth midwives) - Price’s written birth story & Finley’s written birth story
Arbonne wellness products (including “Rescue & Renew” oil)
Music to labor to (Spotify):
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Transcript
Lisa (0s): You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 39.
Nora (3s): One of my favorite things, I guess I was surprised after I kind of came to, and the first thing that I said when I was talking again...
Michael (-): "Give me food.”
Nora (12s): No, it was, "I could do that again.”
Michael (12s): You said it like this, "I could do that again.”
Nora (12s): That was the first thing I said after having a baby. Um, but I think—because you don't know as a first time mom how you manage pain, how, you know, that you've overcome these obstacles or these fears that you have rolling around in your brain. And then to just know the power that you have, I mean that's one of my favorite things in the world and I truly say this, like, I would give birth over and over and over again if I didn't have to raise all the babies afterwards.
Lisa (1m 0s): Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. Okay, friends, this is the last episode of the season.
Lisa (1m 33s): I can't believe this is our 39th episode. After today, we'll be going on hiatus for this summer, but we'll continue to record interviews while we're on break, so please do still reach out if you're interested in sharing your birth story or fertility journey story for the podcast. We'd also love to hear from you with ideas of what you'd like to hear in future seasons. We're considering not only birth and fertility stories, but might branch into interviewing perinatal professionals of various sorts, so please feel free to reach out to us on social media or email us at podcast@BirthMattersNYC.com to let us know what you want to hear.
Lisa (2m 9s): Before we jump into our final birth story for season one, I just wanted to ask, for those expecting a baby in the next few months, have you registered for a birth class yet? If not, Birth Matters continues to teach live interactive virtual group and private classes, which have gotten super positive reviews on Yelp. So you can get a thorough education wherever you are from the comfort of your couch. We don't ever want cost to keep someone from getting essential education, so please know that we're happy to work with you on price if cost is a barrier in these challenging times.
Lisa (2m 40s): We're also continuing to offer a huge discount on our online on-demand course for a limited time. You can check out all the options to get equipped and ready for your most ideal journey into parenthood over at BirthMattersNYC.com. Today you get a two-for-one. Two home birth stories in one episode. And they're shared by the dear friends of the couple from the last story whom Sarah mentioned. I thought that it would be a good time to share another very different home birth story or two given the big increase in interest in home births in these times of the pandemic.
Lisa (3m 12s): And rightly so, for a healthy pregnancy, giving birth outside the hospital is much more likely to lead to a healthy no- to low-intervention physiologic birth. So, about today's stories. The day before Nora's and Michael's firstborn's fourth birthday, and about a week before their second born turns one, they share both of their stories of uncomplicated births at home. Listen to hear details of thoughtfully choosing the birth location and birth team that would be most likely to honor their hopes to have a peaceful and physiological birth both times. You'll hear the benefits of prenatal physical training through the lens of Michael's expertise as a personal perinatal trainer. They'll both share the specific benefits of hiring a doula for both births, and will advise listeners to think carefully about what family members or others you'll invite to be present for your labor through the tense dynamics they experienced the second time around.
Lisa (4m 10s): I do want to mention that this was recorded at the end of January, way before the whole pandemic and sheltering-in thing started happening, so please know that when certain things come up, such as classes they both teach, that some of what they do has moved online for the time being until it is safe to return to in-person classes. Okay, let's get started with our season one finale. Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have some of my favorite people on the earth. I have Nora and Michael. Welcome, you guys.
Nora (4m 41s): Thank you!
Michael (4m 41s): Thank you. Thanks so much for having us.
Lisa (4m 42s): Well, I'm so excited to have you here today to share two birth stories, and it's such a special week to have you here, because your first born, Price, turns four tomorrow, right? And then Findlay turns one just a week later?
Michael (4m 42s): Exactly a week later. Yes, the first and the eighth.
Lisa (4m 42s): What a nice way to celebrate. Thanks for letting me be part of the celebration.
Michael (5m 6s): Absolutely. You were and still are a very large part of their stories. So.
Lisa (5m 10s): And Michael now, these days is our kid's Taekwondo teacher, so they'll actually be coming to class tomorrow and will also be able to celebrate Price's birthday.
Michael (5m 10s): Wonderful.
Lisa (5m 10s): So, beyond Taekwondo instruction, you guys want to share what you do for a living? The various things?
Michael (5m 25s): Sure. Yes. We are both actors, which means we both have multiple other, uh, passions and jobs that help pay the bills while we are pursuing our main passion of performing and creating. When I'm not acting, I am a personal trainer, and I have 13 years of personal training experience in New York City. Uh, I've trained everyone from, uh, the severely obese to high performance elite athletes. Yes, that's right. Our daughter Finley is right here with us.
Michael (5m 55s): So you may hear her interject as well. I have specialties in pre-and postnatal training as well. So I've come in, I've done a workshop for Lisa in the past. Uh, obviously I trained Nora as much as she wanted during her pregnancies. And then I have helped four other women, uh, go through their pregnancies. That's right. That's right. Through their pregnancies. And then postnatally, after, get them back down to their starting size and regain the muscular strength that they had previously.
Michael (6m 31s): Uh, in addition to that, as Lisa said, I am also a martial arts instructor. I've been teaching Taekwondo, uh, since I was 16. Um, and I now have a full Taekwondo Academy in New York called Eisenstein's Academy. And I'm also a fight choreographer. So I take that martial arts experience and I mix it with my love of the stage. And, uh, I am the resident fight choreographer at Brooklyn High School of the Arts and have done fight choreography for several small independent theater companies around New York.
Michael (7m 5s): And that's enough about me.
Nora (7m 10s): Hi, this is Nora, and I am also an actor. And actually Michael and I met acting onset in a very weird movie in a castle. Um, but when we are not acting and performing and creating, I'm also a costume designer and I have a specialty in a wig making. Yeah. And um, so actually during my pregnancy with Finley, I was the wig mistress on Smokey Joe's Off Broadway, and I do quick changes.
Nora (7m 42s): Currently, right now, I get the awesome job of being the program lead at the family experience store called Camp on Fifth Avenue and 16th street. So I help with all the programming there and help develop classes for babies. And I also get to teach our baby class called "Jump Dance and Wiggle with Counselor Nora" on Tuesday mornings at 10:15. So if you have littles and want them to move and wiggle and have an amazing sensory experience, you can bring them into to Camp and we'd be happy to have your babies there.
Lisa (8m 19s): Is that a permanent place? I was unclear on that.
Nora (8m 19s): Yes. Yeah, we are the flagship location and we've been there for just a over a year. And I'm very excited that I get to work with friends from, from the past and doing improv. And that's just a really, really fun place. I get to craft, I get to act, I get to help develop shows. It's a little bit of everything that I love to do. And uh, I also have a passion for helping people use good products. So I have a nutrition and skincare connection as well.
Nora (8m 53s): So, you know, it's the New York City performer life of a little bit of everything, but I think that's why we love living here in New York is that we get to do a little bit of everything that we love! The baby is dancing and singing as well.
Lisa (8m 19s): And the nutrition and skincare line that she's referring to is Arbonne. And I am an avid fan of Arbonne products. That's part of your birth story is one of their, at least one of their oils, right? So it may come up, and I'll be sure to link to how they can connect with those products, if you want, in the show notes.
Nora (8m 19s): Absolutely. And because it's a vegan company and we tend to live a plant-based life, it was really instrumental in my pregnancies with both the kids, using their protein powder and making sure that I was getting enough protein when I was pregnant with my babies. And still, and now they're obsessed with the protein. They, too, little people, love the protein bars and protein shakes.
Lisa (8m 19s): Michael, how, if people are interested in doing prenatal or postpartum postnatal training with you, how can they find you?
Michael (10m 11s): Directly through my email. That's the best way. Which is Eisenstein, my last name: eisenstein.michael@gmail.com. If they're interested in Taekwondo, I teach Saturday mornings from 10:30 to 11:30, and you can email eisensteinsacademy@gmail.com. And I'll add you to the email list for that.
Lisa (10m 40s): Wonderful. Thank you. And he is a fabulous instructor for Taekwondo. And I've heard also wonderful things about your personal training. So everybody run to him if you're wanting one of those things or both of those things. Wonderful. Well, I wanted to ask you, how did you choose to give birth at home?
Michael (10m 40s): Twice.
Nora (10m 40s): Yes, twice. Um, well there's, there's a couple of different things that really led us to that decision. One of the main, um, the first kind of intro to home birth or even the idea of home birth is actually from our dear friend Sarah, who just, um, was on your show right before us last week.
Nora (11m 21s): We have, we've known each other for a very long time. We did theater together in Montana, Sarah and I did. And at one point in our friendship, I convinced her to move to New York City and she happened to live down the street from us in Astoria and one night, Michael and I were out on a date night, and we just happened to be walking by her and Chris's apartment, actually, and I said, doesn't Sarah live here? I don't know. Let's see if she's home. And we buzzed, and she was home by herself, and she was like, "Sure, come on up.”
Nora (11m 55s): And she had paused her Netflix, and it happened to be the documentary "The Business of Being Born," and she was like, "Actually, Nora, I think that you would really like this. You should check it out. It's so interesting. It's so fantastic." And at that point, I think all of were...I don't think any of us were married at that point, but we were, we were together with our partners and we were both babysitters here in the city. And so we had lots of, um, we had lots of interest in babies, and I think we all knew we were kind of headed that direction of getting married and wanting to have babies.
Michael (12m 30s): Well, and that was something that you and I had always talked about. I think from our second date, you and I got on the same—made sure we were on the same page about the importance of us having a family, and the importance of that, um, in our decision in looking for a partner. And so whether or not we were going to have kids was never the issue. We always knew that that was going to be a part of our lives. And something that was, we were making a very conscious decision about.
Nora (12m 59s): And so really we had never thought about the "how." And so we did. We, like—she paused it, we didn't watch it with her. But I think it was that week that we ended up watching—we were really into watching documentaries at the time. And so we watched The Business of Being Born. And we were just blown away by the things that we didn't know or understand that go on in America with birthing. And so it really put us on this path of researching, um, our options.
Nora (13m 32s): And I have always had a huge fear of doctors and needles. And, um, I think there's, there's a reason, though. I think it's because I can feel that many, many times, people are not treated as people in the hospital situation. And I think, yeah, as a person who loves helping mothers and who was a babysitter, I wanted to be a person, and I wanted to have a voice and I wanted to have choice in a way that I wanted to birth, and so that was always, like, in my mindset.
Michael (13m 32s): Hold on, hold on, hold on. Because originally before we had watched the documentary, the few conversations we had had, you were like—for someone who hates needles—"Give me the epidural. I don't wanna feel a thing. And that's, you know, like sign me up. Like, let me know when it's over." That was prior to us watching this documentary, which then led us down an intense research path that changed everything. Um, so, and I think that the, "Give me the epidural, I don't wanna feel a thing, birth is scary”
Michael (14m 7s): is the, for lack of a better term, norm of what people who haven't done the research or taken the time or talked to someone else, I think that would probably be the average thought when approaching birth without doing the research prior to.
Lisa (15m 4s): Yeah. Which makes sense, because in our culture, pain is bad. So why wouldn't we want to avoid pain, you know?
Michael (15m 10s): Even if you hate needles, the pain of birth is worse than my fear of needles. Therefore, give me the epidural.
Nora (15m 19s): And that was before we ever were close to having a baby or anything. And then, like, in a few passing comments. So once it became more of a reality of like, "Oh, one day we actually do want to have babies." And then really taking time to sit and think about those options, I then went back to, "Oh, my mom had two natural births at a birthing center, with no epidural. And my dad caught me." And so really just in taking time then to, like, think about, "Oh, well my...”
Nora (15m 50s): knowing my mom, like, my mom did this, and she has a very positive story about both of her births. Um, and then what happened is I was babysitting for, I think around the time we were engaged, I was babysitting for a family of two, and she was pregnant with her second. And right after her second—our baby is nursing and humming while we are telling this story—right after her, right kind of leading up to the birth of for a second, um, she was like, "Yeah, I'm going in for a scheduled C-section, because it fits in my husband's schedule.”
Nora (16m 27s): And I understand everybody has to make choices for themselves. But it didn't feel like it was her choice. And I'd become very close to her and very dear, and it was really concerning, and it started just weighing on me and I was really worried about her and I wanted to make sure she had enough help. And then I was out at another house babysitting and at midnight I got a call from her husband right after the baby had been born. And she's, they, they were like, "We need help. We can't get ahold of anybody. We have to go to the emergency room.”
Nora (16m 58s): And this was after she had already had her C-section. Basically her heart, like, was murmuring, and it was—something was going on, and they didn't know, and so they needed someone to be at home with their toddler. And I didn't realize at the time, as I was, like, in a cab up to their house, I stayed the night with their brand new baby who was, like, two days old because she had go to the emergency room and when she called her doctor, the doctor said, "I'm sorry, you need to go to the emergency room. That's not my problem anymore.”
Nora (17m 28s): And I had this moment of like, "That seems wrong." Like I feel like the person who cut you open should be in charge of what is happening to your body two days after that, that whole bit. And so that—really going through that experience with her, hearing her story, being really, ultimately being a doula for her in that moment of, like, helping her get dressed and out the door.
Michael (17m 28s): Not even really knowing what a doula was.
Nora (17m 28s): Yeah. I didn't know. But being a postpartum doula and being there and staying that night with those babies and really helping her recover, and—you know, she said, "I would never use that doctor again. If I could do things over again, I would do it different." And that's when I went on my, our path together of reading everything we could get our hands on, really doing our research. And so that when we did get pregnant, um, with our first, with Price, it was, it became this exciting, like, search of whether we wanted—we looked into the birth center in Brooklyn...
Nora (18m 6s): and we never went on a tour, and then I just, you know, I just had a feeling that, that I wanted to look into a home birth as well, look at all of our options.
Nora (18m 39s): And luckily enough we looked—I think I Googled "New York City home birth midwives" and was directed to our wonderful....
Michael (18m 51s): Can I jump in?
Nora (18m 51s): Yeah.
Michael (18m 51s): Jump in real quick? Because you touched a little bit on your knowing your own personal birth story. And I remember, I believe when we were taking Lisa's class, you mentioned just how few people our age actually know their own birth story. Just because one of the main issues in this country is birth this is not talked about, which is one of the reasons why this podcast is amazing. Anyway, back to the point, I actually do know my birth story, and it's been something that my mom has passed on to me. And I am still to this day in touch with my midwife.
Michael (19m 23s): The woman who caught me. She was always like
Lisa (18m 51s): That is so cool.
Michael (18m 51s): It is, it's very—and she's, she's kind of like an extra grandma in many ways to me. So the fact that I've grown up my entire life knowing that I have a midwife, and I was very, you know, she's my midwife. She caught me, and that was something that I was always very, uh, felt very strongly about. I, when we did get pregnant, I was like, "Well, we're going to have a midwife. Just, like, that's what you do. They're amazing people, you know? And I want that for my kids." I wasn't necessarily saying that I wanted a home birth.
Michael (19m 21s): And I would just wanna make the point that you can absolutely have a midwife as part of your birth team even if you don't do a home birth. They can be active parts of your birth experience, even if you are a giving birth with an OB GYN in a hospital. They can be. Depending on, I mean, depending on the admission and setting things up like that, they can be, but if you want a midwife to be a part of your team, that can happen.
Lisa (20m 41s): Yeah, thanks for pointing that out, because a lot of people aren't aware that some midwives do work in a hospital setting.
Nora (20m 41s): So we had Googled New York City midwives, and the first site that really popped up and, like, caught my eye, um, was Midwifery Care NYC, with Carol Bues and Shar La Porte. Carol and Shar. And it was funny, because I was like, "Oh, their website! I love their website." And you can go on their website and read birth stories of all of their clients. They have amazing resources there. And in one of the birth stories we actually found friends of ours.
Nora (21m 12s): And so it was great. We read, and I was like, "Oh, well, that's so amazing. Like, our friends had a home birth with them." So, like, we felt more connected to them. And then we, we kind of like went away from that a little. We were about to leave for Alaska to teach for five weeks.
Michael (20m 41s): Three weeks the first time.
Nora (20m 41s): It was our second time. So it was five weeks. We were gone for a very long time. It was our second time in Alaska. We were teaching in Alaska. We were teaching stage combat and...
Michael (20m 41s): Partner acro and circus...
Nora (20m 41s): And all of these fun classes. And so anyway, we were like, "Well, we have to find somebody and interview somebody, but, like, from Alaska? Like, can we do this?" So we called, we ended up calling them, we did our interview with them over the phone. We just fell in love with them. We hit—like, we just had such, such great vibes and they were like, "Awesome," you know, "Keep taking your prenatals and we will see you when you get home from Alaska.”
Nora (21m 12s): Um, and so we, we got home and I think we were, we had got, I basically did my whole first trimester, uh, teaching in Alaska, pretending I wasn't pregnant, you know, to a whole staff. I think some of my students caught on.
Nora (22m 22s): They were like, "Nora is drinking ginger ale at eight o'clock in the morning." And, um, that, I know that's getting more into our pregnancy...
Michael (20m 41s): Sleeping, sleeping any little break.
Nora (20m 41s): Sleeping all the time. All of our fellow teachers were like, "Nora's, like, not going out as much as she was last year, and she's not drinking coffee.”
Michael (23m 2s): But to your credit you climbed to the top of a mountain as well.
Nora (23m 2s): I did. And I ran a 5K.
Michael (23m 2s): And you did run a 5K. I mean, Superwoman.
Nora (23m 2s): So there's all of those things. We still did those things.
Lisa (23m 2s): So you landed on home birth and then you also hired a doula, right?
Michael (23m 2s): Absolutely.
Lisa (23m 2s): Was that later on in the pregnancy, or how did that come about?
Nora (23m 2s): We did, um, I think it was in our second trimester. Um, we knew about doulas and they highly recommended working with a doula and having a doula for a home birth. We always knew that was going to be a part of our plan, and our first doula for Price was wonderful Laura, who is also a birth photographer, and she took the beautiful photos, and she was the perfect fit for us. And same thing for that birth, and we connected with her, and she was fantastic.
Nora (23m 33s): And she's the one that actually recommended taking Lisa's birth class. So we're very grateful that she recommended Lisa, because we are so grateful to have you in our life in so many ways.
Michael (24m 4s): But I would love to jump in there and talk to any of the dads that are listening, because while having the doula is incredibly important for so many reasons as an advocate for the mother, they are also there to advocate for you, the father. Uh, and there were so many times during the birth—and I know I'm jumping ahead a little bit—where, you know, she'd look at me and she'd say, "Michael go eat something. I got this. You can take a break." And just knowing that that person was there and I could step away from Nora for five minutes, and eat something or, you know, go to the bathroom myself, or you know, take a 10 minute nap.
Michael (24m 42s): Knowing that there was someone there whose sole objective was to make sure that Nora was okay and had everything that she needed allowed me to then be more effective for Nora. Um, and so, yes, the, the doulas are absolutely incredible as a nonmedical advocate for the mother. They are also there to help support the fathers as well.
Nora (24m 4s): And birth partners.
Michael (24m 4s): And birth partners. Yes. Thank you. Not just fathers.
Lisa (25m 14s): Yeah. Thanks for pointing that out. Because a lot of people, a lot of partners feel like, "Oh, I don't want to be replaced," and, you know, "The doula's going to come in and take over." But they're gonna do that only if that's what the partner wants and the laboring person wants, you know, not if you have an involved partner who really wants to be a supportive. They're there to fit in as a puzzle piece to whatever you guys want. So thanks so much for mentioning that. Important point. All right, great. So any other things that you did for preparing for this entry into parenthood and for labor and birth?
Lisa (25m 47s): I know that, Michael, you mentioned doing some training, some physical training with Nora a little bit.
Michael (25m 53s): Yeah. Um, I mean there were—definitely much more during Price's pregnancy than Finley's pregnancy, but during, absolutely during Price's pregnancy, um, I would train Nora...
Nora (26m 9s): We used to do, um, like really being conscious of, like, sitting up straight and doing a lot of ab work, and, like, really making sure that my core still felt really strong. So that when it comes to pushing, you're ready. And so we used to call it the "magic trick." It would be like, "Hug the baby." And just being really conscious of, like, taking those times just to, like, check in, you know, with my body. And then we did tons of reading of other birth stories. Ina Mae, of course, is our favorite. And we watched documentaries.
Michael (26m 45s): There was a great book called "Husband Birth..." "Husband Coached Birth..." Oh, I'm messing up the title.
Lisa (26m 52s): Yeah, I think that's, I think that's the name. It's the Bradley method.
Michael (26m 52s): Yeah. But I got a lot out of that book, and really—because I knew I wanted to be a very active part of the birth. I didn't wanna, you know, be sitting in the waiting room, smoking a cigar. But I wanted to be there, and, you know, Nora had obviously shared her birth story and the fact that her dad caught her, it was such an important, amazing moment for her. I wanted to be able to tell my kids, you know, "I was the one who was there and caught you.”
Nora (27m 29s): Even though I wouldn't let go of Michael's hands.
Michael (27m 29s): Spoiler alert! Spoiler alert! Don't give it away yet!
Lisa (27m 29s): Can I come back to the real quick to the core strengthening? Because I think that's something that's a little less or known for, um, for our expecting parents or people listening. When you're in the pushing stage, your uterus is doing the vast majority of squeezing baby down and out. But there are the deep transverse muscles—and Michael can speak to this more eloquently and, you know, more expertly than I can. But, like, that's also squeezing the baby down and out, and to have that kind of coordination and strength is really valuable.
Lisa (28m 4s): That said, it's really important to work with someone who knows—like, if you're hiring a trainer, you need to work with someone like Michael or someone who is expert. And I guess, do you have to be certified in that?
Michael (28m 20s): No. So I'm certified as a personal trainer. And any good certification for personal training will require you to continually renew it. And by doing that they have you do continuing education. So I took, I've taken—I've done it twice now—the continuing education for pre and postnatal training through the National Academy of Sports Medicine. Um, and so, you know, that was really, it's really important to know at each stage of the pregnancy, which exercises you can do and which exercises you should no longer do.
Michael (28m 52s): And every pregnancy is different. And you may feel wonderful, you know, all the way through, or you may, um, have a special condition where you can't raise your blood pressure above a certain level. You know, you may have diastasis, you may not, you know, uh, and if you do, there are certain core activities that you can do to combat that. You won't be able to get rid of it because of the condition itself. But, uh, doing these certain activities will absolutely, uh, help the recovery process to help you be able to close that gap much sooner.
Lisa (29m 32s): All right. So feel free to jump into your birth story. Your first one.
Nora (29m 32s): Yeah. So with Price, we were due with him—"due," I say that with quotes around that, highly—but around the time of January 20th, um, and I knew that we would probably go late. Like, all of the research that I had done, and I just, I had a feeling and I was just, I wanted to prepare myself for that waiting time. Um, so, so I wouldn't be, like, going stir crazy.
Nora (30m 2s): And so I was very, like—we finally, I think it was, like, on his, on his due date, I think I was, like, out walking around Manhattan, like, going to Starbucks to get a decaf coffee. And people finally were like, "Oh, when are you due?" And I was like, it was like, I just knew, I was like, "I'm fine." And then, you know, so I did a lot of walking around, as much as I could all bundled up. We had a huge snowstorm that was coming.
Nora (30m 41s): And so a lot of people were very concerned that we were going to be stuck in our apartment.
Michael (30m 41s): "How are you going to get to the hospital with all the snow?”
Nora (30m 41s): We were like, "We don't have to go anywhere. We just have to get the midwives to us. As long as they can get to us, we're good. Um, and so we waited and we waited. And Price decided at—what, we were at 41 weeks and five days, we had to go in for extra ultrasounds just to make sure fluids were all great. He was fine.
Michael (30m 41s): Heartbeat was strong.
Nora (31m 17s): He was fine. And I was, we had to make another one because at that point it was like, every three days they wanted me to go get checked. Um, and the place that took our insurance was way out near Coney Island, and we live in Astoria. And I basically was like—we had a midwife appointment and Carol came over and I was like, "I do not want to get in a car and go out to Brooklyn." And so she was like, "I was hoping you would say that. Are you open to doing castor oil?" Because we knew at that point—
Michael (31m 17s): They had already swiped the membranes.
Nora (31m 17s): We had already swiped my membranes three days before. I basically was dilated to three at that point, so I kind of, like, walked around for a week, slowly, just slowly dilating. So it was working, but my body was just doing it nice and slow.
Michael (31m 17s): But if you hit 42 weeks, they were no longer allowed to do a home birth. So that's just something to keep in mind. If you do hit 42, then...
Nora (31m 17s): We were, we didn't, we didn't want to—we were doing everything. I was bouncing on a ball. I was eating dates. I took my primrose, we were having sex, everything that we could to get this baby to come. I mean, I took these long epic walks. Um, and so, uh-oh, let's not play with this loud thing. And so I did, we finally decided that we should do, we should take castor oil. Um, and I was really confident in that and it was up to me, you know, but, uh, Carol was very—she was like, "Great.
Nora (32m 18s): I'm glad that's what you want to do, because that's what I'm going to suggest." And so walked down to our little, uh, corner store pharmacy, local pharmacy, and I walk in and I'm like, "Hi, I need to get some castor oil.”
Nora (33m 2s): And the guy goes...
Michael (31m 17s): "You can't take that.”
Nora (31m 17s): "You're going to take that right now?" And I was like, "Well, not here in the pharmacy. Like, I'm going to buy it and then I'm going to take it home." Um, and he was like, “But you're pregnant…”
Michael (31m 17s): "You can't do that.”
Nora (31m 17s): "You can't do that." And the lady who was ringing up, she goes, "Oh, don't mind him. Here." She's like, "Let me just make sure it's not expired." So I was like, "You know, this is prescribed by our midwives, like, we're safe." And so...
Michael (31m 17s): "We're doing this on purpose.”
Nora (31m 17s): We took it with Carol while she was there. She swept my membranes for, I believe it was the second time that we had my membranes swept. And then mixed it with orange juice. Shot it down. It wasn't that bad at all.
Michael (31m 17s): Started working in 18 minutes?
Nora (31m 17s): Yeah, it was like 20 minutes. Do you remember how much they had you put into the orange juice? I think it was just like three—it wasn't the whole bottle.
Lisa (33m 57s): It's usually like two to four tablespoons is usually the recommendation.
Nora (33m 57s): It was like three tablespoons mixed in with orange juice. And then they just told me to, like, shoot it down. And so we—I took that and sure enough, like 20 minutes later I started feeling contractions. And so we texted her and she was like, "Great. Just, like, keep me—let me know what's going on." And so I hadn't slept very well that night before.
Michael (33m 57s): You were also working on a wig.
Nora (33m 57s): Oh, right, I was building these wigs, um, see, it's four years ago, all these details. I was building these wigs for this woman named Crystal. And so I was on a deadline for this photo shoot for these wigs. And she knew, she hired me understanding that I'd be home waiting for this baby, but I was like, "I gotta get these done." And so I was like, I had been building all these wigs on my bouncy ball, on my workout ball, and so I was like, "You know what?
Nora (34m 28s): I know this might be a long process." And I stayed up late working on these wigs. So I was like, "I'm just going to take a nap." And so I remember, like, laying down on our futon in our front room, and, like, every once in a while I'd, like, wake up and have a contraction and Michael would time it, and I'd be like, "Okay!" You know, I was still talking at this point.
Michael (33m 57s): It's just so funny. Because knowing what I know now, like, I had no—I didn't need to be timing these, not at this point.
Nora (33m 57s): At that point they were, like, maybe 10 minutes apart. Yeah. But I was, like, taking a nap in between these, and then I kinda got up and um, and I would work on the wig a little bit. Like, sometimes I would, like, be stitching the wig, and then would be like, "Oh, contraction coming!" And then Michael would come over and take the scissors out of my hands.
Lisa (33m 57s): Not a bad idea.
Nora (33m 57s): Yeah, take the scissors out of my hands. I'd have a contraction and then I'd go back. And so then, like, sure enough, like, probably four hours into this, like—taking castor oil, it will just make you poop everything out.
Michael (35m 58s): Clear it out.
Nora (35m 58s): Just clear it all out.
Michael (36m 1s): For those of you who don't know, castor oil works on what's called smooth muscle, which is your intestines and your uterus. Um, and so it causes, uh, your bowels to be completely released, which is one of the main uses for it, which is why I think, one of the reasons the guy in the pharmacy was so concerned that we were going to take it. Anyway.
Nora (36m 20s): Because then it can start labor, which is exactly what we were trying to do. So it worked for us. So I spent a lot of time laboring on the toilet for this birth, which is actually a fantastic place to be and I've always felt really good in the bathroom. And so I had my affirmations up in the bathroom because I knew I'd probably spend a lot of time there.
Michael (36m 20s): Your affirmations? What are those, Nora?
Nora (36m 20s): Oh, my affirmations. So I had things written that said...what was it? I have to think about these...I think I have pictures of them. I can't remember the ones, I had actually for birth. I have a picture of them.
Lisa (36m 20s): Some of them are in your story. "Fear and doubt, I reject you." "I am strong and peacefully surrendering." "I am calm and trusting." "I breathe you into the world." There's two more. "I am open and letting my body lead." "I sing through contractions and dance away pain." I love those.
Michael (37m 19s): And these were written out and cut out and then pasted all over the bathroom.
Nora (37m 23s): Yeah. So we had them all ready to go and they were fantastic. So we spent a lot of our time just laboring together at home with music on. And I knew I wanted to have music. We had a lot of Celtic music, and which—at one point, Michael—I didn't make a playlist for this one, but I hit, we just put it on YouTube. And so at one point it just kept playing like whatever was on, and, like, Christmas music at one point turned on. And um, I'm getting, I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but our doula did come over in the afternoon to start helping us labor and just be there with, like, some counter pressure.
Nora (38m 0s): Um, I really did not want to eat. I was not hungry.
Michael (38m 7s): What was great was when Laura came over, you were sitting on the toilet. And that was the first time you started to cry.
Nora (38m 15s): Oh yeah. I didn't really cry, but I, I had this moment of, like—I had a pretty tough contraction, and they were starting to get tougher to get through. And um, I remember just her presence being there, of this comfort, that, like, this woman was gonna come and like, just hold me. And she gave me this big hug and she was like, "It's okay. I'm here." And I couldn't really talk to her at that point, but I just remember thinking, like, crying and being so grateful that she was there, and crying into her shoulder...
Michael (38m 15s): While pooping...
Nora (38m 15s): While pooping, and thinking, "What a weird way to invite someone into your house!" Just, like, me just pooping, but, like, being so grateful at the same time that she was there to hold me and tell me that it was okay, and then to let it go. And one of the best things Laura told me, and I've used this in both of my births was she said, "Remember to melt. After the contraction is gone, don't hold on. Whatever you felt, just let it go, because it's gone." You know? And I think that's the big thing that no one really talks about in birth is that it's not—you are not going to be in constant—what we call "pain”
Nora (38m 54s): or "discomfort" the entire time. You just have to ride the waves.
Nora (39m 27s): They're just coming in these little 45-second, minute waves, and if you can get through those waves, then let it go. Don't hold on to it. It's such an amazing life lesson, anyway. Just get through it and then let it go. Um, and so I was really good. I took those words very seriously, so I would just melt. I would just melt in between. I remember melting into her, melting into Michael. And so when she got there, I mean, I walked around the house. I cannot lay down. I am not a person who can contract while being anywhere on my back or laying down.
Nora (40m 1s): I have to be up. I have to be, like, squatting or leaning against something. So I did a lot of leaning on doorways, leaning over our sink in the bathroom.
Michael (40m 18s): We used some of the positions from Lisa's class where you would sit facing away from me, sitting on my lap facing away. I would use my knees to help open your legs. And then that way I could also give pressure to your lower back while opening your hips.
Nora (40m 34s): Um, and so Price, we just kind of, I liked the living room and I liked the bathroom. Um, those were my two places I liked being with that birth. Um, and I think at one point I tried to eat a coconut popsicle to that because they were like, "You have to have something." Um, and then that evening is when, you know, I just really couldn't talk through contractions anymore. And I remember Laura putting me on the phone with Carol just so Carol could hear through one contraction.
Nora (41m 6s): And later they told me this, they said it was really hard to call it, when to call the midwives, because I was managing my pain so well that they weren't sure. Like, I didn't have the, like, "I can't do this" moment, really, that like some people...I think that the visualizations so helped me.
Michael (41m 32s): We did notice when the mucus plug came out and um, and that I think, was "Well, OK, well, that happened, so we should at least start talking about should we have the midwives come over.”
Nora (41m 32s): Yes. Um, and so that's when she, she did have her listen to me through a contraction, and that's when they decided that that Carol would come over. And at that point it was...
Michael (41m 32s): 11:00 PM
Nora (41m 32s): So Carol got there at 11:00 PM, and that's when she determined that I was six centimeters, and then she could easily stretch me to seven centimeters. And so we continued to just support, and like Michael said, you know, at that point we were, you know, had been laboring since 10:20 that morning...
Michael (41m 32s): But your water still hadn't broken.
Nora (41m 32s): My water still hadn't broken. And I spent a lot of time in the shower. And then I think at one point they just were like, "You know what, I think if we break the water we're going to get this to go. Is that okay for you?" And I loved, I love that Laura came in and said, you know, "Take a moment to talk about it. We're gonna..." you know, it wasn't a demand. It was a, it was like, "Hey, we think this might be great.
Nora (42m 5s): How do you guys feel about that?" And at that point I had so much trust in my team that if they were suggesting something to me, then I really believed that was the best choice. But I love that we still got that choice and took that moment to really make that decision.
Nora (42m 43s): And I said, "You know, yeah. At this point, let's break the waters." So we moved over, we moved into the bedroom, and on the bed. Um, she did break my water and...
Michael (41m 32s): You immediately went into transition.
Nora (41m 32s): So we went into transition. Yeah. So for the rest of the labor, I was in child's pose on our bed. Um, and I would just sink my head into the pillows. Um, and I really, like, fell asleep in between these hard contractions. I just would, like, I remember being so sweaty.
Michael (43m 32s): We skipped one of my favorite parts. One of my favorite moments was, uh, going back to the affirmations, at one point, Nora was in a contraction and she was shaking her head and I was like, "Yes, baby. Yes, you can do this! Don't...don't. Yes! It's not 'no.' Yes!" And only later was Nora able to tell me that, uh, she was so frustrated with me at that moment, because she wasn't saying "no," she was skiing down the mountain, and going side to side, and she was just skiing through the contraction.
Nora (44m 7s): So that was my visual. Basically, I found that visual, like, pretty early into the labor of me skiing down a mountain. And I grew up in Montana, and my dad told me to ski when I was really little. And one of the things you do is you're on the chairlift, and right before you get off the chairlift, you say "Tips up," and then you get your tips up and then you just, you're ready to go. And so around, like, three, four, like the pulsing of the contractions for me is when I'd be like, those were the hardest.
Nora (44m 38s): And I just knew if I could get through three and four, I could just ski the rest of the way down. So I would say to myself in my head, "Tips up!" And then I could just ski the rest the way down, and I just opened up my hips, and I would just, like, go back and forth and back and forth and I'd just be like, "I'm skiing through these constructions, all downhill, here we go. We can do this." Um, and so he thought I was saying "No, no, no." And I wanted to be like, "F you! I'm skiing!”
Michael (45m 11s): But you were not verbal at all for the first part of labor.
Nora (45m 11s): I wasn't verbal, no, I was, I was—I very much went into my little world and I, it's so interesting. I love this perspective of how present you are with yourself, even though you have no way of communicating to anyone else around you verbally. Maybe with your body—I think at one point Michael ate something disgusting.
Michael (45m 11s): Anything I ate...
Nora (45m 11s): Everything he ate was so gross. And all I could do was shove his face out of my face. Like, "No, not the cherry cashews.”
Lisa (45m 11s): Yeah, I thought that was funny, reading your birth story. "Daddy grabbed a handful of cashews. Mommy pushed his face out of the way. Then later, daddy tried to eat a protein bar, but it had cherries in it and mommy didn't like the smell of those. So she pushed daddy's face out of the way again." And I just thought that was so funny, because normally you don't think, I don't think anyway, of cashews or cherries being very odiferous.
Lisa (45m 42s): I'm glad you brought that up.
Nora (46m 15s): So we used all of those all of those techniques. I actually, we ended up using the shower head because of your birth story, Lisa, I remember you talking about being, like, watered down in a pattern of a Z. And I remember thinking like, "Yes, this is really nice. This feels fantastic." Um, the one thing that I was really kind of, like—we thought our bathtub would be big enough for me to labor in the bathtub.
Nora (46m 47s): And what I found is that I don't want to be laying down. I don't want to sit down. And so a traditional bathtub is not the place to be if you want to be on your knees in the water. And so my knees really hurt.
Michael (46m 15s): And looking back we didn't even think to put down, like, a bold yoga mat or something that would've helped a little bit.
Nora (46m 15s): So my knees were like, there was a lot of—my knees really hurt, because I was trying to be on them, but I couldn't really stick my knees down. And so I would often just jump up when I had a contraction, because my knees couldn't handle it, and I wanted to be up. Um, which is kind of jumping forward a little, foreshadowing into birth number two, why a birth pool was so exciting.
Nora (46m 46s): Um, but uh, yeah, so we ended up, um, we, I had been pushing in child's pose on our bed and at one point Carol just said, "You know, Nora, I think if we flip you, I think if we flip over and we have Laura hold one side, who is our doula, and Michael the other side, you hold their hands, I think that's actually going to be the best position for you." And sure enough, she goes, you know, "In between contractions, we'll flip over.”
Nora (47m 57s): I did, I flipped, I grabbed, and I pushed him, pushed Price out, that last push.
Michael (46m 15s): And I wasn't able to catch him because she wouldn't let go of my hands.
Nora (46m 15s): And then, so one of the, one of the, like, stories that I've grown up with about my birth was that I pooped all over my mom when I was born. And my brother has held this, like, as, like, a weird thing, like, "Well, at least I didn't poop on mom!" And so this has been like a story, a joke in our family, and sure enough, as soon as Price comes out, he poops all over me.
Michael (46m 15s): Like the black tar, sticky.
Nora (46m 15s): Meconium. And then he waited. He waited to come out, but he, he pooped everywhere. And so we were, like, laughing so hard, and he was like then frog-kicking. So he was, like frog-kicking the poop everywhere, and Laura just kept being like, "The poop!”
Michael (46m 15s): "There's so much poop!”
Nora (46m 15s): So, like, between the castor oil and me, and Price and his pooping...
Michael (46m 15s): Well, you didn't poop at all because all of your poop been released.
Nora (49m 7s): During the birth. All I'm saying is that...
Michael (49m 7s): Many women poop while they're pushing the baby out and you don't have anything left, so there was no mommy poop.
Lisa (49m 7s): So the baby made up for it.
Michael (49m 7s): Exactly.
Nora (49m 7s): Um, but then he, it was so amazing because then I just, he was right up on my chest and just laid there. And then we waited. We did delayed cord clamping.
Michael (49m 29s): One of the things that Carol has always shared when she shares our birth story is the fact that we had been singing Price these three songs while he was in utero. Um, and when he was born—we didn't plan on this, but, I think, uh, Carol did two rescue breaths on him, he started to cry. She passed him to Nora. He was lying on her chest. Um, and we immediately just started to sing to him the three songs that we sang to him all through utero.
Michael (50m 2s): Um, and he immediately stopped crying.
Lisa (49m 29s): Of course. Because they know your voice. So beautiful.
Nora (49m 29s): And it's amazing that that first instinct was like, "You know me. It's okay. You know these songs, like, we've been practicing this." But we burst into song without any plan. And we still sing those to both of our kids every single night. Um, and they, they sing along now, too, I mean Price sings along to the songs. So it's very cool. Um, but it was funny because he, because I had been on my legs and my knees so much, for 15 hours of laboring, as soon as he was born and, after I birthed the placenta...
Michael (49m 29s): Which was huge. Massive placenta.
Nora (50m 57s): Which was huge.
Michael (50m 57s): Later on, our midwives told us that they had—without, they just did this without telling us—there's apparently a way that a midwife can check to see if you're having twins or not just by doing something, and the placenta was so large, they actually at one point were like, "Are they having two? We only hear one heartbeat. But let's double check. We only have one. It's fine.”
Lisa (50m 57s): It was like six pounds, right? I mean the placenta.
Michael (50m 57s): Yeah.
Lisa (50m 57s): Usually they're like one or two pounds or so. Sometimes three.
Nora (50m 57s): We did, um, placental encapsulations.
Lisa (50m 57s): You'll have it for the rest of your life.
Nora (50m 57s): I think I just stopped taking them at some point because I was just like, we have so many. But they were saying that, like, the amount that came, it was, like, double the amount of...
Michael (50m 57s): Second time as well.
Nora (51m 50s): So who knows, maybe it was all that vegan protein powder.
Lisa (51m 50s): I had heard somewhere that some people keep the placenta, somehow preserve it for menopause or perimenopause. Had you heard that?
Nora (51m 50s): Yeah. So we actually did a tincture with Finley's, and so, and that's—because it's made with alcohol, you can keep it until menopause. So you know, I'll just keep it, the same with her, like so many placenta pills, I still have placenta pills in the refrigerator at this point. I guess I could freeze them?
Lisa (52m 25s): Maybe you're the one that told me that. You might've been the one that told me that, actually, I'm not sure.
Nora (52m 25s): So, yeah, Price—basically, like, that was kind of the most shocking part was how long it actually took me to recover after. I was really, really shaky, and...
Michael (52m 25s): They actually did give you a shot of Pitocin.
Nora (52m 25s): A shot of Pitocin to help my uterus close down, and this is also..
Michael (52m 25s): Contract...
Nora (52m 25s): Well, no, shrink down.
Michael (52m 25s): Yeah.
Nora (52m 25s): But it was really sweet, and this is why I love Carol, she was like, "Nora, I'm going to need you to, like, sing to your uterus and just talk to it and, like, visualize it shrinking down, as well. We're going to give you a shot of Pitocin just to make sure that happens as well.”
Lisa (52m 25s): And the singing can distract you from the needle.
Nora (52m 25s): Exactly. I didn't even feel it at that point. I was so...
Michael (52m 25s): And you had a minor tear, and they gave you, like, one and a half stitches? Maybe, I don't know, but you didn't even feel that at all. So Nora's knees were so shaky from having been on them for so long and having been basically doing 15 hours of squats, um, that, you know, they wanted to clean the poop off of her. Um, but her legs were so weak at that time that she needed a lot of help getting into the shower.
Michael (53m 18s): She just needed a lot of help, and she was okay. And we knew that, but she did get very pale afterward, um, partly from not eating anything for 15 hours, really.
Michael (53m 53s): And so they, you know, I immediately got her some food. She ate some food, they got her up and assisted her into the shower. Uh, and what was nice about that was I got to take Price into the living room, uh, and just kind of have some, just one on one time with him they cleaned her up.
Nora (54m 21s): And this is the magical part of having a home birth. I mean there's so many magical parts, but one of my favorites that I maybe wasn't expecting was that once I felt good enough to just go take a shower, after doing that, because I was so sweaty and my hair was messy, just to, like, be in the shower and have our birth assistant, Nicole, who is now a midwife, she was there just to make sure that if I needed help or that I didn't fall down, um, that I was safe, you know, she was there. And when I got back, our birth team had already changed our sheets and everything was clean, so that we could just crawl into bed as a family of three and establish breastfeeding right away.
Nora (55m 5s): And then, you know, after we established breastfeeding and we ate. Um, I really wanted a smoothie. So Laura went and made me a peanut butter and banana protein smoothie with vanilla protein powder. It was so delicious. And we were eating sweet potato chips. We have all these pictures of sweet potato chips in our birth story. It's like placenta. And sweet potato chips. Um, but this is the glorious thing of having a home birth, because you can just eat sweet potato chips while cutting the cord.
Nora (55m 35s): Um, but I love that once we established breastfeeding where we felt OK, they checked in with us and then we got to go to sleep in our home. And then the next morning Shar came in and checked on us. Um, and oh, one of my favorite things, I guess, I was surprised after I kind of came to, and the first thing that I said when I was talking again...
Michael (55m 35s): "Give me food.”
Nora (12s): No, it was, "I could do that again.”
Michael (12s): You said it like this, "I could do that again.”
Nora (12s): That was the first thing I said after having a baby. Um, but I think—because you don't know as a first time mom how you manage pain, how, you know, that you've overcome these obstacles or these fears that you have rolling around in your brain. And then to just know the power that you have, I mean that's one of my favorite things in the world. And I'm a, and I truly say this, like, I would give birth over and over and over again if I didn't have to raise all the babies afterwards.
Nora (56m 39s): I love it. I loved being pregnant. I love and having babies. But it's incredibly powerful and I think I'm, I feel really grateful that we were provided the information and the support so that I could feel that way. I, you know, and I want, I hope our story inspires other people to look into all of their options, um, because I want everyone to feel the way I felt after having a baby. Um, that empowerment. No matter how your birth story turns out, and I think anyone, you know, going back to my dear friend who put us on this path, you know, I think it's about having the support around you so that you have decisions and that you feel like you're making those decisions no matter what happens in all of those.
Lisa (56m 39s): Wonderful. Well, would you like to share then about your second-born's story? Little Finley who's been with us today.
Nora (56m 39s): Yes. So our little Finley. We have a joke, and most people when they find out that our children were born in the same week, "You must have some timing. There must be a good time for you." Um, but apparently...
Michael (56m 39s): The third week of April.
Nora (56m 39s): Third week of April is a fantastic time to make babies in this family.
Lisa (56m 39s): Spring is in the air and love is in the air.
Nora (56m 39s): Finley's pregnancy is very different in that I was working eight shows a week off-Broadway, and we also had a toddler, so that changes things a lot. And so preparing for birth also meant preparing for little brother to be a part of this birth story. And so we did a lot of watching birth videos with our toddler— positive birth videos. He loves them. He thinks that babies being born is, like, the coolest thing, and sometimes he would, like, laugh with, like, so much joy when the baby was born.
Nora (57m 12s): And so that's why when people are saying, "I don't want to watch birth videos, I don't want to be freaked out," I think, you know, there's nothing freaky about it.
Nora (58m 14s): It's just how we view it in our culture, and watching positive birth videos is an amazing way to prepare and to help you visualize, you know, how positive birth can be.
Nora (58m 56s): So yes. And Price got to be an active part of all of our checkups. So he got to help measure my belly and he'd help pump up the um, uh, take my blood pressure. And the midwives were so amazing. When they would come over to our house—it's a wonderful thing about having another home birth is that you can say, like, "Oh, the midwives, you know, who took care of you are coming to check on your baby sister.”
Nora (59m 26s): And so they gave us wonderful resources. Um, this time around Laura wasn't available as our doula, and so we ended up getting a recommendation from the Astoria Doula Collective, and she said, "Oh, I have this fantastic new girl. She is an amazing vegan cook and chef and she is, um, looking for her first home birth family. I think this is going to be amazing." And Chandley—we were her third birth. Her first home birth.
Nora (59m 59s): So we helped, you know, in her certification. And at this point, knowing how much I loved birth the first time, I was very open to, "Sure, join us! It's going to be a party." We live in a different apartment than we did our first time, and so we have more space in our living room. So it was very important to me to have a birth pool, and to have that setup and have that option, because I knew I wanted to be in water so much with Price, and then it just hurt my knees so bad to be in that bathtub that I was really excited about having a comfortable option.
Nora (1h 0m 35s): So if you are doing a home birth, please don't go without the option.
Michael (1h 0m 44s): Whoever designed this birth pool deserves an award. Because there's a cup holder, handles. There is reinforced seating. There is like, it was, it's like the throne of birth. It is like, it was so, it was, I was so impressed. It was so easy to set up. I did a dry run, uh, the week prior, just to see, you know, the hose attachment to the shower, to make sure you have a long enough hose. Like, I just wanted to make sure to do all of that, you know, do a little dry run.
Lisa (1h 0m 44s): And did you rent that through your midwives or how did you get the birth tub?
Michael (1h 0m 44s): Not even rent it. They don't charge you to use it. They just have four in their rotation. So all we had to do was go—you had to buy a liner for obvious reasons. Fine. Okay. I think it was, like, a nominal...it was, I don't remember. It was nominal. But we did have to go pick it up. That was the biggest thing. You have to go and pick it up from the most recent family that used it with our midwives. Um, you know, they just asked that you clean it.
Michael (1h 1m 15s): Even though there was a liner, they ask after you use it to, obviously, disinfect it. Like, sure. Okay. Um, and then we were able to pass it on to the next family afterward.
Nora (1h 2m 2s): Then we just had to get a hose. And the attachments came with it. And then we ended up getting a sub pump, um, to empty it, from another home birth family. Um, and then we, because we have no use for a sub pump, we actually donated that with the kit so that it could go on with the kit to the next family, for convenience. Um, and so we had our tub. Um, so Finley was due on February 2nd, which is the day after Price's birthday.
Nora (1h 2m 38s): And so we, we didn't, we were really hoping that he didn't, or she didn't come on his birthday. And same thing, because we went so late with Price, I also, then, just kind of knew we were probably safe, that she was also going to come late. Um, so she didn't come as late, she didn't make mommy wait as long. Um, but Finley did take her time as well, as Price did. I just, I guess I have a nice little warm uterus.
Nora (1h 3m 9s): Nobody wants to leave. Or a really soft pillowy placenta or something. And um, and so, uh, this time around because we had Price, one of our biggest concerns doing a home birth was just to make sure that someone was here to help and take care of him so that he could, you know, if he wasn't into it, if he needed to be taken out of the house, if it was a long labor we had all of those options and so...
Michael (1h 3m 38s): Well, and, sorry, I'm going to cut you off for a second. Um, one of the things that—one of the ways that we knew Chandley was our doula was the moment she arrived, Price just went to her, and just was at such ease with her, and wanted to show her everything. And she was down to, like, get on the floor and, like, look at all of his Transformers and she was just, from the moment she got here, her interaction with Price was one of the things that sealed the deal.
Michael (1h 4m 11s): Because when you do have a second, and you are doing it at home, you want to make sure that they are, uh, I mean, we already knew that he wasn't going to be freaked out by the birth because he, you know, we had talked to him so much, we read a bunch of books, he'd watched a bunch of it. But we did want him to be surrounded by people that he knew and that he loved and that loved him. Um, and so that connection with Chandley was super important to us. That said, I think what Nora is getting to was that we did ask—where, with Price's birth it was just our birth team, for Finley's birth, we did ask my mother to come out and stay with us, um, and be there kind of in case.
Michael (1h 4m 52s): And this was my fault. I didn't specify her role enough to her. But we wanted her out there in case we needed her to assist with Price. And we didn't know what that meant. We didn't know if he was going to freak out, you know, we didn't think he would, but who knows, mommy goes into labor, maybe he freaks out and needs to be taken out of the house. I would rather, you know, at the time I would have wanted my mom to, you know, be the one to take into the park or, you know, if he just, you know, needed food and everyone else was busy.
Michael (1h 5m 30s): We, for whatever reason, you know, we just wanted that extra reassurance. Uh, unfortunately that didn't end up—that ended up being the greatest source of stress this time around, was having my mom in the house while we were preparing. Her not really knowing exactly what her role was because we didn't really know what it is going to be yet. Umm, if he wanted to be there and he was fine, we were okay with him being there. Um, and I think she felt kind of lost and like she didn't know what we needed from her.
Michael (1h 6m 5s): When really we just needed to her to just be there and be okay not doing anything.
Lisa (1h 3m 38s): To be flexible, maybe. To adapt.
Michael (1h 3m 38s): Yeah, exactly.
Nora (1h 3m 38s): So what happened was that because we had a toddler who was about to turn three, who was just turning three, he was also just going developmentally through a lot, and then feeling all the changes that were happening with mommy having a baby. And so he would have, he would have little outbursts that for us were developmentally normal for an almost three-year-old to have and say, "I don't want you here. Go away. I don't like you!" Which, at that point, as his mom and dad, we knew that that's not real, and that that's just him expressing, how he knows how to express, that things are changing.
Nora (1h 4m 16s): And, and so she took a lot of that very personally. And so just the mere fact that I was at home, she's not my mother, and having this kind of energy, it made it really tense, and it was really hard. And so I think a lot of my kind of waiting to go into labor, almost, was that I was holding all this tension and I didn't feel safe and I couldn't be completely vulnerable in the space that I needed to be the most vulnerable to let my body open up and have this baby.
Nora (1h 7m 33s): And so at one of my, I guess it was our last midwife appointment, things got really, really tense with my mother-in-law. And, uh, in the meeting with our midwives, they were, like, "Have you had any, like, emotional cries? Or maybe, maybe you just need to cry. Have, like, a big cry. Is there anything you want to cry about?" As she's saying that, I'm looking at my mother-in-law standing in the corner, being judgmental. At least that's how it felt to me with her arms crossed for the entire time.
Nora (1h 8m 5s): And I was like, "Well, I could tell you about what I could cry about right now, but I can't say right now." But I tell this part of the story because I then knew that I needed to have this baby at night. I knew Finley needed to come at night. And so I got to this point where I had hit my breaking point with my mother-in-law. And that night while she was asleep and while Michael was asleep and while Price was asleep, I had a headache. I woke up with a headache, um, and it was...so, it was February 7th.
Nora (1h 8m 36s): And for whatever reason I got up, and I was like, "There's no use in just laying in bed and not being able to sleep." And I had some leftover coffee, so I made myself a cup of coffee to get rid of my headache, and then I lit a candle. I put on my, like, favorite music, put on my essential oils, and I went into the bathroom, and I sat in the bottom of my bathtub and I, like, started showering myself with our, with our shower hose. And I, like, really just talked to Finley and I was like, "Hey, little girl.
Nora (1h 9m 7s): Like, things are really intense. And I just know myself right now. We thought grandma was going to be here to be helpful, but I just know for me, right now, with all of my emotions and all my hormones, I can't have her there. Like, I can't have her a part of this. I want your brother to be a part of this. I want your dad to be a part of this. But, like, I think we're just going to have to do this at night." And I'm not joking, like, started to have some contractions after this little, like, meditation. I had a really good cry in the bathtub. I started contractions. Everyone was asleep, and so I, like, got too hot in the bathtub.
Nora (1h 9m 40s): I, like came out. I put my candle and my music out here on the table in the front room. The birth pool was already set up. It was inflated. It wasn't filled, but it was already inflated ready to go.
Michael (1h 8m 44s): Do that. Do that. Have it set up ready to go.
Nora (1h 8m 44s): And I just sat on my, my big birthing ball, and I just remember leaning my head over and just, like, rocking back and forth.
Michael (1h 8m 44s): At what point did you come in and get my phone?
Nora (1h 8m 44s): And so I was like, "You know, these contractions are more than just, like, Braxton Hicks. Like, I feel like maybe they're coming...maybe I should go get the little clocker on the app on Michael's phone. So I, like, snuck into the room and was like, "I'm just gonna grab your phone.”
Michael (1h 8m 44s): "Don't worry. Everything's ok. Just go back to sleep.”
Nora (1h 8m 44s): "Everything's fine. I'm just going to start tracking my contractions." So I came out here...
Michael (1h 8m 44s): For another hour.
Nora (1h 8m 44s): For another hour, and I just kept timing my contractions.
Michael (1h 8m 44s): By herself! For an hour!
Nora (1h 8m 44s): Because I think part of me didn't really We're two hours in now, and finally she comes in after two hours of being labor and... I was like, "I think, maybe..." Like, "I don't know, maybe, can you look at the contractions. Are they consistent?" I was like, "Babe! You've been at four minutes for an hour. Yes. You have to call the midwives.”
Lisa (1h 8m 44s): I did the same thing with my second. I was like, "No, I'm going to let my midwife sleep. I'm going to let my husband sleep." Like, "No its, you know, there's no need to call anybody.
Lisa (1h 10m 52s): "I have plenty of time.”
Nora (1h 8m 44s): So, like, he's like, "No, I think we really should." I was like, "No." I was like, "No, no, no, not yet." I was like, "Let me just lay down. Let me try to lay down and go to sleep.”
Nora (1h 10m 52s): Because it's often, sometimes you're like, "I'm going to go to sleep and I'll fall asleep and it's not real." So I, like, laid down and I tried to lay down, and a contraction hit, and I, like, shot up and was like, "Nope," because I was like, at that moment I was like, "I know I can't do contractions laying down." Like that's for real. I was like, "Yeah, we should probably call our team. "And so I just stayed in this corner of our room, it's like by my side of the bed.
Nora (1h 11m 24s): And it was, like, my corner. Like, I was, like, leaning against the bed, and for whatever reason that little corner was like a magical corner for, like, getting through contractions.
Nora (1h 11m 55s): And so we called and...
Michael (1h 8m 44s): I immediately started filling up the tub.
Nora (1h 8m 44s): Yes, we texted our landlords who lived downstairs just to let them know that, like, hot water is probably not going to be available.
Michael (1h 8m 44s): And they told us, you know, "Just let us know. We won't do any laundry, won't do any dishes." So they were actually the first people to know that Finley was on the way.
Lisa (1h 12m 16s): Yeah. But this was like four in the morning, right? So they were unlikely to need it.
Nora (1h 12m 16s): Yeah. Very unlikely to need it. But we just wanted to let them know, like, "Just so you know...”
Lisa (1h 12m 16s): That's kind of you.
Michael (1h 12m 28s): We did end up—sorry—we did end up using all the hot water. And just know these pools are large, and you most likely will run out of your hot water. And at that point, what was so amazing is our, our birth team, immediately switched over to heating water on the stove and then coming in. And this was one of Nora's favorite parts is, you know, they'd say, "Okay, move to the edge," and Nora would shimmy over. And then they would dump the new hot water, boiling water in—I don't know if it was actually boiling—hot water in, and then they would stir it up. And she said it was like being in a stew and being mixed in with the stew.
Michael (1h 12m 59s): But anyway, so our doula came over.
Nora (1h 13m 3s): We called, um, Shar was on call, which was very exciting, because Carol—Carol and Shar share work as a team—and Carol is one that caught Price. And I had said to Shar, like three years before, I was like, "It's okay, the next baby will be yours." And so it was just so amazing that she's the one that answered the phone. And we were like, "We think it's time!" She's like, she lives in Long Island City, too, so it's not a very far drive.
Nora (1h 13m 33s): She's like, "I'm just gonna hop in my car and come on over." And then we called Chandley. And Chandley also lives in Astoria. So she is, like, on her way over. And then I had this moment where it came out while we were waiting for our team. And I had, I just kept not believing that this was really happening, that we really were here again. And I had this moment where, like, Michael and I just stopped, and we started slow dancing in our living room, and I just remember bursting into tears and I was like, "She's on her way! Our baby girl is really coming.
Nora (1h 14m 9s): This is really happening. This is so exciting. So exciting." And so we, I was standing in the living room when, when Shar got here. And I was so excited. I was so hyper this time. So chatty. The last time I was, like, so quiet, and I think it's that cup of coffee that I had. And so I was like, "Oh my gosh, Shar! Blah blah blah blah. Like, talking, talking, talking to her. And then really soon after she walked in, she said to me, you know, "I called your birth assistant, wink, wink." And we had always talked about, through this whole pregnancy, that if Carol was available as well, she would come as the birth assistant instead of calling the birth assistant on call.
Nora (1h 14m 47s): And so both Carol and Shar were here.
Lisa (1h 14m 10s): The dream team!
Nora (1h 14m 10s): It was so amazing. So then Carol arrived at the exact same time as Chandley, our doula, and they, like, walked in, and we have, like, stairs up into our living room. They all walked in, and I remember being so giddy that everyone was here, and that we were having this baby, and then having this moment of like, "Oh, right, I need to go concentrate and go have some more contractions so we can have this baby." So I, like, remember like running back over to my little favorite spot, and...
Michael (1h 14m 10s): We set up the living room, we, you know, put on the candles. Carol was doing her doctorate at the time and was studying the effect of essential oils on delivery. And so we had certain oils that we had agreed to use to help her study, so we got that going.
Lisa (1h 14m 10s): Like, what kinds of oils?
Nora (1h 14m 10s): We used, I really liked using wild orange. I love that smell, and that was really just calming to me and made me feel positive. And then I did have a moment where I threw up with Finley, and immediately, because I said that I liked peppermint, as well, she immediately [inaudible] a couple drops in the trash bag, and it was so amazing. It was just like, "Oh, that is so refreshing.”
Michael (1h 14m 10s): What was the one that they actually had me use when I was massaging?
Nora (1h 14m 10s): Wild orange.
Michael (1h 14m 10s): So you can not only use the wild orange in the diffuser but also just topically on your hand and then just using it as massage.
Nora (1h 14m 10s): So it was, we used that as a massage. There was lots of just good scents. And I made a playlist this time, um, that was very calming folk music that I really just plugged into, and we just kept playing it. I remember at one point asking for it to be turned up louder, because it helped to just keep me in my zone. And so at one point, because Price was here, he woke up and he wanted mommy to put him back to bed. And so I did have a moment where I was like, "It's okay, I've got this.”
Nora (1h 16m 29s): So I went into his bedroom and I remember in the middle of singing him the song, I was down on all fours next to his bed, like rocking back and forth through a contraction while singing.
Michael (1h 14m 10s): And I'm watching this on the monitor. And actually our whole birth team watched this on the monitor. "She is having a contraction right now. She's...oh wow, look at her go!”
Lisa (1h 14m 10s): That is remarkable.
Nora (1h 14m 10s): And so that's one of my favorite parts of that story. And then Price went through, like, all of the ranges of emotions when he was awake.
Michael (1h 14m 10s): So excited to, like, at one point, like, banging on the birth pool wanting it to be gone. He was like, "No pool! No pool! Don't like the pool!" and was hitting it. And so there was this funny—I think it's funny—moment that my mother-in-law had come out at some point towards the end of our birth, to kind of, like, help with him, and she really was trying to manage him a lot. And that—her managing him, and just, like, my current feelings at that time towards her—one of my sayings that has gotten me through all of my contractions is, "It's okay. It's okay. It's okay." And I remember being like, "It's okay. It's okay.
Michael (1h 16m 29s): Like, he can be banging on the thing. He can be out here, like, it's okay." And I remember, that's all I could say was "It's okay." And I look at it and I think it's very funny, you know, to me in my head that my mantra for myself became a mantra for everyone else, for the toddlers and for the grandmas.
Michael (1h 17m 58s): And then at one point after laboring in the tub, in the living room, I had spent most of the time, like on my knees hanging over the side. But they didn't hurt this time, because the birth pool was amazing, in case I didn't say that.
Nora (1h 14m 10s): You know, same thing again. Finley's water didn't break, and she was like, "You know, I think maybe we should think about breaking your water again. Let's, like, let's just get you out of the pool and see." And at some point in the pool, towards the end, I went from managing through my contractions where I was like, "It's okay, it's okay," to almost, like, holding my breath. Then it was really quiet. All of a sudden it turned really quiet, how I managed. And I realized that I, that's when I started pushing. And I just started, I started, like, pushing through my contractions without anybody really knowing that that's what I was doing and not really knowing that that's what what's going on.
Nora (1h 19m 13s): But that felt better to me and that's because she had moved down. And so by the time we actually got out of the tub, I was, like...
Michael (1h 19m 13s): Shar leaned over to me, as Nora waddles into the bedroom, and goes, "See that? There's a head in her vagina." And yes, there was.
Nora (1h 19m 13s): I waddled over to the bed, and right before we got on the bed to, like, to check me and just, like, just see where I was, or to, like, maybe see if we needed to break the water, I was like, "Just a moment, let me get through this one more contraction." And of course everyone's like, "Oh, of course." And as I was standing on the side of the bed, going through a contraction, I, like, felt this push, and then I was—they were like "Nora, did you, did you just pee?
Nora (1h 19m 43s): Did your water just break?" And I was like, "I don't know. I think maybe I peed, I'm not sure," but what we later determined, it was her water break, but it was a high break. And so at that point I was just like, so, like, she was coming, and I just like flopped—once again, child's pose is, like, my favorite place to push.
Nora (1h 20m 20s): So I flopped over on my big pillows on our bed and I, I mean it really was, like, two more pushes and I remember Shar just being like, "Not too fast. Like, take your time.”
Michael (1h 19m 13s): She asked you to raise yourself up.
Nora (1h 19m 13s): She was like, "Could you raise up a little, just a little bit?" And then they asked me if I could—they said, "Nora, do you feel about that?" And I was like, "What?" And they were like, "That's your baby's head." And then all of a sudden I was like, "What? We've already got a head?" Like, it shocked me so much. I was preparing, because I remember how long, with Price it was 45 minutes, about, pushing.
Nora (1h 20m 55s): So I was ready to like, "Okay, I'm gearing up, this is going to be some pushing for a while. I'm going to like..." and I was like, "What do you mean there is a head?" And all of a sudden I had this feeling of like, "Oh my gosh. Like, I remember that feeling that—what they call the ring of fire is like," but I was, like, that sensation, it was like, "Surprise! We're here!" And then I, without knowing I did this, immediately reached down to touch her head. And I, looking back at the pictures, I said, "Whose hand is that?" and they're like, "That's your hand.”
Nora (1h 21m 26s): And I said, "Oh my gosh, I don't even remember." But, like, having that instinct to want to be like, "Oh, she's coming. That's her head." Um, and so then we just, like, breathed her out, really. This is true. It was just like easily breathing out.
Michael (1h 21m 27s): And I got to catch her this time!
Nora (1h 21m 27s): And Daddy wasn't holding my hand this time, so he got to be there. So she still had the little sack on...
Michael (1h 21m 27s): She was born in the caul. It was so amazing. Her head came out.
Nora (1h 21m 27s): Somewhat. She had a veil. It was a high break so she wasn't truly in caul, but she had a little, a little veil, a little hood...
Michael (1h 21m 27s): So her head came out and there was this milky white film over it, and Shar said, "Just peel that back. And so I, like, basically, like, peeled that off and there was her head, and then Shar helped me, like, do the little, the little twist and shoulder.
Michael (1h 22m 11s): She just came right out.
Nora (1h 21m 27s): And then because I couldn't see, because I was faced the other way, she couldn't come immediately to my chest. And so all I hear, because I can just hear what's going on. I can't actually see what's going on behind me. I hear "Two cords!”
Nora (1h 22m 9s): and I thought, "Can you have—can a baby have two cords? Did I have twins? Like, what is going on?" And what she meant is that Finley had wiggled herself around enough, and she had such a long umbilical cord that, she'd actually wrapped—the umbilical cord was wrapped around her neck twice. Um, and so she was, we call her our very magical little being, because she had a hood and the wrapped around her neck twice.
Lisa (1h 21m 27s): A necklace.
Michael (1h 21m 27s): And it is very common, for those of you who listening that might think, "Oh my God, how could she...?" Um, it's uh, it's very common for the court to be wrapped around the baby's neck once. And as long as there is enough cord, um, and it doesn't send the baby into the distress, not an issue.
Michael (1h 22m 13s): It's very rare to have it wrapped around twice. And so that was why...
Lisa (1h 23m 24s): Yeah. Yeah. And then for the baby to have enough slack to be able to descend through the pelvis. So it must have been a fairly long cord.
Michael (1h 23m 33s): And we know it's very long because—I'm jumping ahead, but, with both of our children we've had their umbilical cords dried into the shape of a heart, which is a very beautiful thing that you can have someone do. Generally...well, the people who did our encapsulation were able to do that for us.
Lisa (1h 23m 52s): Oh, I'd love to get the, maybe the contact information for who you worked with, and then I can include that in the show notes.
Michael (1h 23m 59s): Sure. Our doula Laura did it the first time. Um, and then we used—do you remember the name of the woman?
Nora (1h 24m 7s): I don't. I will look it up. I know she's not doing encapsulation right now, so...
Lisa (1h 24m 7s): I can put some other resources of people I know who do it. Yep.
Michael (1h 24m 16s): What was, what's so amazing is when she, when she showed up to give us Finley's umbilical cord, she said, "Normally, the hearts are only about this big, you know...”
Nora (1h 24m 27s): It's a tiny, a small box. It's a very small box. Finley's is a good eight inches. So long. The longest heart ever. So adorable. Like, twice the size of that box. No way it could fit in there.
Michael (1h 24m 39s): Um, but yeah, we were very grateful that she had that long of a cord in that it being wrapped around her neck was of no consequence.
Nora (1h 24m 39s): And similarly to—this must also be a theme in our family, just to wrap it up to the end of this story, is Finley also decided to poop everywhere as soon as she was born. So we once again had poop everywhere, and we needed to clean both mommy and baby.
Lisa (1h 24m 39s): It's the family tradition.
Nora (1h 24m 39s): It is. So neither of my children can hold this against each other. They can both be like, "We both pooped on our mom. It's the thing our family does, apparently." Um, but it was, it was so amazing then to have, um, for those of you who were wondering, like, "Where was Price in all this?" He was actually watching Octonauts and eating a granola bar when baby was coming out, but it was perfect. Because then as soon as she was out, and as soon as I was able to flip back over and hold her...
Michael (1h 24m 39s): Gramma did bring him in.
Nora (1h 24m 39s): Gramma brought him in and we got to just be our little family of four right there, and that felt so cool just to, like, have him right there and see his baby sister. And of course he was so excited because we had been talking about this forever.
Michael (1h 25m 56s): So we did delayed cord clamping with both kids, and I did get the cut the cord for both kids, which is really important to me and something I really wanted to do. And, uh, there was no issue when we cut the cord for Price. And so I wasn't thinking of anything when I went to cut the cord for Finley. Um, and it was straight out of a horror film. It was so funny. The first little snip—this can happen sometimes—we both got sprayed with blood, which is not normal.
Nora (1h 25m 56s): Especially because we had waited for there to be no more pulse. I think that's the more shocking surprise.
Michael (1h 26m 36s): But it made us both laugh.
Nora (1h 26m 38s): But yeah, so that, I mean we had...
Michael (1h 26m 38s): Start to finish five hours.
Nora (1h 26m 38s): Five hours.
Michael (1h 26m 38s): You did two hours on your own, you were in the tub for about two hours, and then last hour in bed pushing...
Nora (1h 26m 38s): Not even that.
Michael (1h 26m 38s): Not even that. Yeah. So...
Lisa (1h 26m 57s): Well, I know we're running out of the time, but do you guys have—either of you have anything that you wanted to share that you haven't gotten to share?
Nora (1h 27m 4s): You know, Nora and I spent so much time talking to each other—and our team, but first, first talking to each other about what we wanted our birth to be like. These were focused conversations. We had checklists. But it wasn't, you know, uh, "We'll pack an extra set of clothes," you know, but, "We want this team. We want the pool. We want the pool setup here.
Nora (1h 27m 35s): You know, we want the essential oils. We want these oils to be ready to go, you know. We want these foods ready to go." So that, you know, right afterwards she could have her sweet potato chips, you know. Well, and I think what I like to impart now to people when they are looking at all their options is to educate yourself as much as possible so that you have the best tools, whether you use them or not.
Nora (1h 28m 6s): And being, having the freedom then to let it all go and be present with your partner, and to just trust the team that you've built. Trust the knowledge that is in—within you, and that you have, you know, there. And using those resources. I think that's the best thing. The more tools that you have, the better, because you don't know what is going to happen. And I love what you say, Lisa, is, like, there's a wide range of normal. And you have no idea where you're going to fall in that range. And so I just think, you know, think of all the prep that you do for school or for a test.
Nora (1h 28m 42s): This is the same. There's no difference, and I think there are so many people who approach it as like, "Less is more," like, "I don't want to know all the details because it scares me," and I say, "But wouldn't you want to arm yourself with all of the knowledge that you can to get to demystify it so that it's not scary, and so that you can have, you know, the best version of birth for you?" And I think that's important is that, birth is going to be different for everyone.
Nora (1h 29m 14s): We know home birth is not the choice for everybody, but it's the place that we felt the most comfortable, and the place that we felt the safest. And, you know, I just really encourage people to look at all their options.
Lisa (1h 29m 11s): Wonderful. Thank you so much, you guys. This has been such a delight. And a Happy Birthday, early birthday, to Finley. Happy Birthday tomorrow to Price. It's very exciting. We celebrate their little lives. We celebrate your birth as parents.
Michael (1h 29m 11s): Thank you.
Lisa (1h 29m 11s): So the rest of my family will see you tomorrow, and I hope to see you guys soon.
Michael (1h 29m 11s): Yes absolutely.
Lisa (1h 29m 11s): Thanks again. All right, bye guys.
Nora (1h 29m 11s): Bye.
Lisa (1h 30m 3s): I hope you enjoyed today's birth stories just as much as I did. Just a couple of things I wanted to comment on before we wrap up the final episode of season one. Do you remember how Nora had a highly sensitive sense of smell during labor? It's very common for our sense of smell to be even more sensitive in labor than in pregnancy. And that's saying something for a lot of us. So just be mindful to avoid putting any scented lotions or oils directly on the laboring person's skin, particularly up near their face. You want to be able to remove the scent. Partners, also think carefully about what food you'll have on hand for yourself. Ideally, it shouldn't be anything too odiferous that might offend the person in labor. Though sometimes these things are unpredictable, like the offensive cashew and cherry scent for Nora was. Our connection got spotty for a bit when Nora was explaining what essential oils were helpful for her. So I just wanted to clarify that she was talking about how smelling peppermint oil helped quell her nausea when she felt like she was about to throw up. I teach a bit more on essential oils in episode 36. One thing I recommend considering as you prepare for labor is to consider if it might help you to visualize the arc of contractions in some specific way like Nora did with the ski lift imagery. Would it be helpful for your labor support partner to help you with this through verbal guidance? If so, what kind of imagery or words do you think might be helpful? Some people like to be told, "You're halfway through and on the downward slope" at the midpoint of a contraction, while others find different wording helpful. Some of us respond well to telling ourselves—or to hearing the encouragement from someone else—"You can do anything for 60 seconds,”
Lisa (1h 30m 38s): or however long a contraction's lasting. Just some things to think about and perhaps explore with your labor support. You guys, I cannot believe this is the end of the first season for the Birth Matters Podcast. What a wild ride it's been. And I can't wait to both have a break, but also to start prepping content for our second season. I hope that you'll use the summer to not only get some fresh air and sun, as I and my family hoped to, in as safe a way as possible, of course, but also to catch up on any episodes you haven't heard yet and to share the podcast with a friend.
Lisa (1h 32m 16s): For now, I want to say it means the world to me that you listened to this podcast. I believe in you, your innate ability to birth your baby, as well as to be a wise, loving, and compassionate parent. Now, please hold up a virtual mocktail glass so I can salute and toast you. Cheers to you in this journey you're on. We'll see you again before long. Until then, be well. And remember, you got this!---END---
