Today, Birth Matters alums Liz & Matt share the details of what they call their “grumpy old Scotsman” son’s uncomplicated birth at Manhattan’s New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell. Liz will share how she had lots of back labor and how the epidural only worked partially and temporarily. Later, she’ll share about her early breastfeeding challenges of oversupply and a food sensitivity they discovered their son has. Matt & Liz will also share some tips for partners and for the postpartum period. Then they’ll reflect on the transition into life with their son, after Matt had a daughter many years ago with another partner.
Episode Topics:
prenatal massage & Mexican food while watching Oscars, labor begins
heading to hospital
lots of back labor, epidural that only worked partially and temporarily
items for labor - at NY Presbyterian Weill Cornell, they provided lots of goodies (toiletries, postpartum stuff, clothes, etc.). They loved Lisa’s recommendation of the chux/wee pads for diaper changing pads
early breastfeeding, struggling on 3rd day, oversupply challenges, identifying potential food sensitivity baby may have
swaddling
pushing specifics, immediate skin-to-skin
postpartum physical challenges (hemorrhoids, diarrhea, calf pain)
golden tips for postpartum and for partners
temperament of & comforting baby, Dunstan baby language
reflections on the experience of becoming a parent (& for Matt, becoming a 2nd-time parent after 29 years)
the journey through pregnancy & workplace leave policies
pregnancy testing due to “advanced maternal age” (35+), tip for reducing anxiety
postpartum support, seeing lactation consultant re: oversupply
Resources:
Birth Matters NYC reunion - Matt, Lisa, Liz & baby Lachlan
Earth + Sky Healing Arts (Long Island City)
Lisa’s recommended supplies for pregnancy, birth & postpartum*
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.*
Transcript:
Lisa: 0:00
You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, episode 17
Matt: 0:04
What doesn't work is if you tell your wife or partner that another strong contraction's coming on, they don't like that. Because she was like, "Not helping, not helping."
Liz: 0:12
Well because he would look at the monitor and be like, "Wow, that was a really big one." I was like, "Yes, yes it was."
Lisa: 0:19
Thanks for telling me. Now wait a minute. Didn't I say, "Don't say 'that was a big one'?"
Matt: 0:27
A lot of things you remember, and some things you just don't remember once you're like, once you're just kind of in there.
Lisa: 0:42
Hey, there. And welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on the show is not intended as medical advice, or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. If you have a positive birth story you'd like to share, please email a brief summary to us at podcast@birthmattersnyc.com.
Today, Birth Matters alums Liz & Matt share the details of what they call their “grumpy old Scotsman” son’s uncomplicated birth at Manhattan’s New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell. Liz explains how she had lots of back labor and how the epidural only worked partially and temporarily. Later, she details her early breastfeeding challenges of oversupply and a food sensitivity they discovered their son has. Matt & Liz also share some tips for partners and for the postpartum period. Then they reflect on the transition into life with their son, after Matt had a daughter many years ago with another partner. Before we get started, if you'd like to receive your free Pack for Your Best Birth Checklist and my free mini course with some expert tips for your best birth, please visit birthmattersonline.com/pack which you can also find linked in the show notes. Okay, let's jump in.
Lisa: 2:15
Hey guys, welcome. So glad to get to chat with you guys today. Matt and Liz, tell us where you are in your journey and then share your birth story. And anything else you'd like to share with us.
Liz: 2:26
Okay, great. So, I'm nine weeks postpartum, a little over nine weeks. He was born back in February and I would say I had, in the realm of things, I think of more of an easy birth than I think some women have experienced. I had, you know, I had contractions that came on like really strong really quickly. And so, for a first time birth I was really only in labor for about 12 hours before the baby was born. And yeah, so Matt's gonna—can tell the story much better of like the night of the birth. So,
Matt: 3:01
Well actually there was a, there was, a whole day was—she was due in two days. So she booked herself a massage. She had been to this place you suggested, Earth and Sky, which happens to be now at the same place as our pediatrician is. The same, same, same. And so she went and had that done. And the massage therapist she had before said, "I feel good energy, like you're going to be soon. And I, I feel..." and Liz of course was like, "Okay." And we also had Mexican food that night because we were craving Mexican, so we had it while we were watching the Oscars, which we don't typically watch, but we did. And she just started having severe pains and she had some discharge. So she called and they're like, you know, "Wait," then she did your five-one-one and then we held on until Best Picture and then she was just like, "This hurts." And so she called back and they said to bring her in. And so I wasn't quite ready. I had thrown my stuff in a bag as I thought I might not be coming home. So it was like one o'clock. We got there and it's very easy at one o'clock in the morning to get to Weill Cornell. There's nobody on the street on a Sunday night. So we just parked the car and went in and, and she wasn't—she was like a centimeter dilated, and they—because there was a little bit of discharge, they just said, "Look, you're going home with a baby, we're gonna admit you." And so I had to go home, I had to go out and run home, park the car, right? Because I was like, by Monday morning they're going to be towing my car away. And by the time I got back, around four o'clock, she was a happy camper.
Liz: 4:33
Yeah. I ended up, so the reason I ended up getting an epidural was because he was positioned in a really—it was like back labor. So it was like extreme and fast too. So, you know, you know, I was dilating really quickly. So I ended up with...
Lisa: 4:51
Which, that's unusual with a posterior baby, actually, that usually slows down the dilation. So it's nice that it didn't, although it made it more intense, of course.
Liz: 5:00
Then I was just like, "Well," but what the nurse said when I, she was like, "I'm surprised you're not just doing a natural birth because you're coping really well with this pain. Where did you learn how to do this?" And I was like, "Oh birth class. We learned these things." So it actually really helped to kind of learn some of the breathing techniques and walking around and stuff like that. So then I got the epidural but then the epidural stopped working because of his position. And I was one of those rare cases. They said that because of his position, no amount of drugs is going to help you with the, with this where he is and the pain. And so ironically I got the epidural but it didn't, it only helped me for like a couple of few hours of the 12 hours.
Matt: 5:43
But those were a lovely couple hours, because it went, it went from here to like here she was like kind of a little high, just like "Honey, I'm fine. I'm good." And then after a couple hours she's like, "It hurts." So, because she, she held out as long as she could but they just kind of, yeah....By the way, what doesn't work is if you tell your wife or partner that another strong contraction's coming on. They don't like that. I would tell her and she was like, "Stop." She wasn't quite that nice, because she was like "Not helping, not helping."
Liz: 6:15
Well because he would look at the monitor and be like, "Wow, that was a really big one." I was like, "Yes, yes it was."
Lisa: 6:22
Thanks for telling me.
Matt: 6:25
I had to watch the monitor for 12 hours.
Lisa: 6:27
Now, wait a minute. Didn't I say, "Don't say 'That was a big one'?"
Matt: 6:34
A lot of things you remember and some things you just don't remember once you're like, once you're just kind of in there. And I mean the room was lovely and I, there was less people until was the first, until it was like the last five minutes. It was just really the nurse and the doctor and I just in my little mind thought there was people swarming in all out. There's not, it's just the nurse and the doctor and the doctor's not even there the whole time she just comes in, tells you to push. She's happy if you go half a millimeter. She's like, "That was fantastic." I'm like, "What is? Nothing happened." She's like, "Half a millimeter is great." I'm like, "Okay." So she pushed for about two hours.
Liz: 7:11
Yeah, I also had meconium, so they called the pediatrician to be there when he came out in case there was any issue. But you know, I was pretty, I guess pretty textbook. So I pushed for, well, I pushed for two hours, so I pushed for two hours and then he came out and he immediately, he started crying and everything was fine, so.
Lisa: 7:34
So they didn't have to do deep suctioning?
Matt: 7:37
No. He came out and...
Lisa: 7:37
Great. Yeah. In the last few years they've changed the protocol. They used to do deep suctioning if there was any meconium at all. But now if it's just, if the baby gives a good cry, they seem like they're fine, they don't do standard. So that, I'm glad to hear that. When did your water break?
Liz: 7:53
So they think when I got to the hospital, I was, had a lot of blood coming out and that's why they decided to admit me, even though I wasn't like the normal amount of dilated at first. And so they think that it was negative for water when I first got there. But the nurse said once they discovered the meconium, sort of probably, I would say a couple hours in they said, "You know what? Maybe with your bloody discharge we might have missed that." It was already like...
Lisa: 8:21
Ah, okay, so you're not, you didn't actually notice when it happened.
Liz: 8:25
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I was already in the process when it happened, so yeah.
Matt: 8:35
Let's see. As far as preparedness and readiness of items, we probably over-prepared. I would say, and some kind of feedback as far as like what to take as far as what our experience at Weill Cornell, you could've walked in naked and they would have given you everything. Like they gave us tons of different, very nice toiletries, toothbrushes. We left their with just bags of stuff that, that they gave us. So really I think we overpacked, she overpacked as far as clothes, because they just provided everything, which is nice. I know we did, she did buy stuff but we didn't really get a chance to use it because they were just so generous with what they gave us. Even like the diapers and wipes and Kleenexes and, and the large after-pads.
Liz: 9:22
Yeah. All this, like a lot of stuff you recommended, which was awesome, this hospital, I think a lot of, maybe a lot of the hospitals do it now, but they provided a lot of this stuff. The only thing they didn't provide was like a peanut ball or you know,
Matt: 9:36
Oh, the wee-wee pads. Lifesaver. Yeah, they are. They are a life saver because I couldn't imagine somebody not having that and using their cloth or their cover. As much as little man likes to, you know, let them go sometimes. So those were probably one of the top best suggestions put down. We have them all over the place.
Lisa: 10:00
Glad to hear that.
Liz: 10:01
I'm trying to think. We're kind of all over the place. So it was like textbook, like what you said, that third day of breastfeeding, I was like, "I can't breastfeed. And my milk is not going to come in, I'm going to be terrible at it." So it was like exactly as you said. The third day was extremely challenging. He didn't go to the bathroom for like hours on end. And so then I was concerned, we were concerned about him getting enough. So then we caved and gave him formula. But then my milk supply came in with like a vengeance. So I actually have an oversupply issue and now literally today we found out that his, you know from learning from your class, he was having a week of green diapers, green poop. So we took it in to the pediatrician even though the nurse kept saying like, "Oh, green's normal. I was like, "Not for a breastfed baby, it's not.
Lisa: 10:49
Not for that long. Yeah.
Liz: 10:50
And so it turns out it came back positive for the potential allergy and so I'm going to have to like cut out dairy, milk and soy.
Lisa: 11:00
So not fun. I'm sorry to hear that.
Liz: 11:03
Yeah, so we're going to try that and then if that's not the issue, we'll, we'll start eliminating something else to see if he has an allergy to something else. Go from there. But honestly, if we hadn't gone through the class and learned all of the different poop to look for, I would have just taken the nurses at their word. I mean the pediatrician actually came back and said "Bring the diapers in, we need to test it." But the nurses kept saying, "That's normal. That's normal. That's normal." I don't think we would have, I would have pushed her talking to the actual doctor if I didn't know like, "Not when you're breastfeeding." So yeah.
Lisa: 11:38
That's great.
Matt: 11:39
What else? Swaddling was a good thing to learn. I was an expert at the beginning with the—we have the, the swaddle sack, it makes it easier, but I would, I was really good with the actual blanket and he was like six and a half to seven pounds, but he's 13 now, so we're just, we're getting away from swaddling already because he breaks out of it and he does a prison break from swaddling.
Lisa: 12:06
Little Houdini. Well, can I go back to the pushing stage? I was just curious about how was that shift from the first stage to the second stage for you and what worked for you with pushing? Do you feel like—was it a learning curve, or there are certain things that worked better than others for you?
Liz: 12:24
For me, I found the pushing stage actually to be the hardest for some reason mentally because I was going into, once they were like, "We're ready to push," I felt like, "This is the end." Right? But then it was like two more hours.
Lisa: 12:42
Yeah. That's challenging.
Liz: 12:45
So what—one of the things that didn't work is the, the not the pediatrician, the doctor kept coming in and saying, "You're almost there" for like two hours. I was like, "I don't believe you anymore. I don't believe you."
Lisa: 13:00
You're lying to me. Stop lying to me.
Liz: 13:00
Yeah. But really what really what did work is that, you know how the nurse was sort of coaching me into—were coaching me into like exactly how to push and what it should feel like. So that really worked really, really well. And then I just, I used the stuff that I learned even with running, like we've talked about, where it's like if you just focus on like little milestones along the way, it makes the whole, it makes the time go by a lot quicker. So it's like, okay, he's come out x amount, you know? And then I just kept focusing on what it was going to be like when he finally came out.
Matt: 13:38
And her pain subsided.
Liz: 13:39
Yeah.
Lisa: 13:41
Oh, good.
Matt: 13:41
Once she stared pushing, she seemed less in pain. It was a different type of exhaustion but it wasn't the pain she was feeling from the contractions, because she was, she was pushing.
Lisa: 13:50
Yeah. That's often the case for, for women. Did he come out posterior? Did he come out sunny side up?
Liz: 13:56
I don't remember honestly how he ended up coming out.
Matt: 14:00
He came out face down.
Liz: 14:03
Yeah, so he must have turned.
Lisa:14:03
Okay, so he must have rotated.
Liz: 14:05
Yeah.
Matt: 14:06
Yeah. Is that right? I think so. I remember him just all of a sudden he was just out. He went from this little teeny bit to like his entire body. He just slipped out and he was like blue for a second and he unfolded cause he was all folded up and he looked like lanky and then, you know, 17 people swoop in and they put the gel in his eyes and cover him. And then we did, we did skin-to-skin, both did skin-to-skin within four minutes. So she had it first and then I had—I took my shirt off and I did it for a little bit with him. And so they were really, they were glad to see that when, when the, when I said, "Can I do it too?" They're like, "Absolutely, Dad, you can do it. Of course you can." So he looked like a little upset, grumpy Scottish man. So that's how he got his name. That's how he got his name, Lachlan. We had two picked out. Sebastian was the other one.
Lisa: 14:54
You wanted to wait until you saw him to decide.
Matt: 14:55
We did, and then once we saw him, it was just like, he was a grumpy old Scotsman, so it was a done deal then. But yeah, I guess we're pretty fortunate. Pretty uncomplicated birth. I mean, I wouldn't say textbook. 12 hours is pretty, pretty quick in the life of a labor, is it not?
Lisa: 15:14
Yeah, it is. It's on the low. Yeah. It's below the average, because average is about 18 hours for a first time labor. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: 15:23
And all, I mean, she was happy that there was no cesarean, so she was a little concerned about that. But she, she was awesome.
Liz: 15:30
I mean, yeah, we have a whole host of other issues, but not the C-section ones, right?
Lisa: 15:40
Yeah. Do you want to share or elaborate on that at all? No worries if you don't.
Liz: 15:44
Yeah, it was interesting because I didn't think my pushing time was very long, but some of the nurses in the hospital seemed to think in the grand scheme of my labor, the pushing was like a little bit longer than most. And I got horrible hemorrhoids like...
Lisa: 16:00
Oh yeah.
Liz: 16:02
Really bad. I had minimal tearing, which was good. But the combination of like even the minimal tearing and the horrible, horrible, horrible hemorrhoids, it was just like, even the nurses would be like, "Oh wow," when they were examining me.
Lisa: 16:17
That's not good to hear. Thanks!
Liz: 16:20
Yeah.
Matt: 16:22
That whole after-scene is something to, something to see as an, as a, as a, as a, as a male., You really have to appreciate your partner because you're like, that's a lot happening down there afterwards. Because you know, it's, you know, swollen and sore and there's stuff everywhere. You just like, "That's...wow. That's a lot."
Liz: 16:40
Then I also, I had the, I did not have constipation. I had the opposite issue. I was asked, I asked for privacy when I went to the bathroom the first time. So that meant they had to come back several times to ensure I actually peed. Yeah, but like, you know, for the discharge. And then I almost, I also, the last weird thing that happened is I had pain in my calf like five weeks postpartum, which can be a sign of like a blood clot. And so I had to go in for to do that. But because I was a runner, I didn't even think anything of it.
Lisa: 17:17
Sure. Yeah.
Liz: 17:18
At first I didn't even say anything until I was just talking to someone. I was like, "It's really weird. I haven't been doing anything other than walking, and my calf muscle's killing me." And so then I went in and it turned out to be fine. But there's just, it's just basically all to say that there's like all this weird stuff that happens and some of it's on the list and some of it's not, right?
Lisa: 17:38
Yeah. Yeah. There's so many different possible things and, and usually it's normal, but it's so hard to know, when you've never gone through it, what is, both in labor and in postpartum. Right?
Matt: 17:49
And Dr. Google does not help.
Lisa: 17:50
Oh my goodness. Run away from Dr. Google.
Matt: 17:54
That's not been our experience. But the—Dr. Google can be overwhelming when you just type in something because everything from "rubella fever" to "it's Monday" comes up as far as why there's green poop. There was something, but still when you, when you search you get to so many different answers.
Lisa: 18:13
Yeah. It's confusing.
Matt: 18:14
So you know we survived 50 years ago without Dr. Google and everything was fine, right?
Lisa: 18:20
Right, right. Exactly. Liz, in terms of with the hemorrhoids, did you find any certain remedies that helped you?
Liz: 18:27
So I did a couple of sits baths. It was like hard. So I think one of my biggest piece of advice is, and this was what one of my friends told me before I gave birth is "Take a shower every single day." It's like one basic thing but it improves your mental health. It makes you feel so much more human in the like really challenging postpartum period if you just do like basic self-care soothing things. So like the sitz bath really helped, the witch hazel pads really helped. And you know, it's just, do it religiously because otherwise...like one day I like skipped it and it just, it was a setback. So yeah.
Matt: 19:07
My advice for the fathers out there, or the spouse, or the spouses, or the partners, is: listen to your wife and do, and I, I'm laughing but do as much as you can for them because it's helpful to them. And if they say they're not tired, then don't make them sleep. So we learned that the hard way. I was so caring about her wanting to be, because she was sleep deprived and we both were, but in reality she was more so because she lets me kind of off the clock after 10:30, 11 o'clock because I'm back to work and she's not. But if there'd be a time during the day, I would say, "You know what, I have him for the next couple of hours. You go sleep." And she's like, "I don't want to sleep. I want to relax, but I don't want to sleep." So I think it's important that the fathers understand what the women are going through. Not just from giving birth, but then they have to breastfeed. And there's just a lot. I mean, you go through a lot in general as a family, but there's so much happening, you know, and there's so much that we can do. I mean, we need our sleep, too. Everyone does. And you do the best you can. We decided to throw in moving at the same time as having a baby, so we thought that would be, much less stressful. So, we're making all that work and it's happening tomorrow, so we'll, we'll see what happens.
Liz: 20:27
Yeah. I mean, I think what you, to elaborate on the sleep thing, it's just like, people always say, "Sleep when the baby sleeps," you know? But sometimes...
Lisa: 20:36
Everybody laughs at that, right?
Liz: 20:37
Yeah. Sometimes you're just like, if you have a minute, you actually just want to sit and read the newspaper or...
Lisa: 20:44
Feel human.
Liz: 20:45
Yeah. Or maybe you can't like go to sleep on demand and then, you know, that kind of thing. So yeah.
Matt: 20:52
Yes. Everything that's supposed to work on babies to calm them does not work for him.
Lisa: 20:57
Oh my goodness. The 5 s's, that doesn't...
Matt:20:59
He does not take a paci. We got him a Mamaroo. We had a Rock-n-play but that was recalled. So we bought a Mamaroo. He can tolerate that for 12 to 15 minutes. Not a paci. And then yeah, we bought him a certain type of swaddle, the Nested Bean swaddle. Got good reviews. Hates it. The whole weighted thing doesn't work for him. So we're just like, whatever's supposed to work for your child does not work for him. He likes to be held.
Lisa: 21:26
It's a guessing game.
Matt:21:26
He likes to look around. He likes to look at the clock behind me. He loves Mr. Clock. If you're in his, if you're in his line of sight, he's like, "Excuse me, you're in front of Mr. Clock. Move out of the way. Mr. Clock would like to talk to me." He's talking in his little—oh, the sounds were very helpful. The sounds you taught us were very helpful. Grunts and this and that.
Liz: 21:52
The baby language base.
Lisa: 21:53
The Dunstan Baby Language.
Liz: 21:54
Yeah and I think you know it's like the most rewarding things are like when he start—they start hitting certain milestones. Like obviously a first smile, but now he's like very talkative. Obviously takes after Matt in multiple ways.
Lisa: 22:09
And have you had time to, what about the just sort of the, this new and improved identity that you've taken on? How has that processing been? Or have you had time to reflect much?
Liz: 22:22
For me, I think it's, it's been awesome. I mean it was just really exciting to be able to, you know, think about how your, your perspective completely changed. And that was—someone sent me this article the other day that was so true, that they've done studies that your actual internal biology changes when you—as a woman, when you get, when you give birth, like your personality can change slightly and all these different things. I think that's very true. You know, and just, I think we also have been trying to figure out, you know, how to make sure that each one of us is going to pursue our individual interests that are outside of our identity as being parents.
Lisa: 22:59
Oh that's so healthy. That's wise, really smart, good advice.
Liz: 23:02
And it's been hard right now because we're moving. But you know, like we spend a little bit of time Matt talking about some things he wants to be doing and then, you know, I do little things like basic stuff like, "Oh, I want to—I'm supposed to run the marathon, so how am I going to train for that?"
Lisa: 23:19
I was going to ask about like, are you back to running? How's that going?
Liz: 23:22
So I started running a little bit. I was just like, "Wow, I didn't even know I had this muscle before I had a baby." Now, I know that's there.
Matt: 23:33
Yeah. She came back, she came back from like a two-mile run, I say, "Hey, sweetie, how'd it go?" She goes, "Not well. It did not go well. I'm in pain. Did not go well." But she did it.
Liz: 23:43
Yeah. But it's just, I think, you know, there's not much time to reflect yet, but I think it's just like all of your—yeah. It's just other things become important, you know? And I used to, you know, I've, I'm still dedicated to my career and things like that, but that used to be—it occupied so much of my head space, and now it's just like everything seems—that seemed challenging before, it seems a lot easier. If that makes sense.
Lisa: 24:07
Yeah, because you just gave birth and you're like, you discovered your super hero powers...heroine powers.
Liz: 24:17
Right.
Matt: 24:17
And for me, I'm just learning to be a Dad again. I mean I, my daughter's 29, so you know, things are very different, as I said, in birthing class than they were 30 years ago. We didn't have Dr. Google or 17 different machines to put them in that's connected to my Bluetooth iPhone that we can control the music. It's just, it's, it's, it is a little overwhelming the stuff that's out there that you can purchase and buy because you read somewhere that it helped this one baby in Montana on a Tuesday sleep for three hours. So you're like, "Purchase. Buy. Amazon. Must have now. I want him to sleep," and you have to kind of be careful about that because you know, it can be a little overwhelming. Yeah.
Lisa: 24:57
Yeah. That's got to be—thank you for reminding me that you had had a daughter so long ago, so obviously you already explored that new identity and have had that identity for many years now, but I'm sure it seems like—I would think it feels like a lifetime ago and, and like you're saying, things were so different.
Matt: 25:14
Things were different, and Liz keeps asking me, "How long...?" I say, "Honey, not that I don't care about my daughter. I don't remember. I don't remember how long she—my wife breastfed at the time. I just don't, I did, I just don't remember how long or why she stopped." Was it because of daycare back then? I don't know. We were very young and poor and maybe that's, I don't know. So I can't unfortunately reflect on all of it. But I think it comes out in our parenting skills already is that I subconsciously, I think I treat him different. Liz is right here. I know he's not going to break. Does that make sense? Like, not that I throw him around, but I just, I know because of—with Shannon, what I was able to do. And she's a first time mom, so it's a little different. So that's our challenge is that I've had one. And while I don't remember every nuance, I do remember that they aren't porcelain and that they are able to be handled—I don't know if that makes sense or even sounds like I'm a good dad. I just meant, those are our challenges for their age difference and just for the fact that I'm not a first time dad anymore. You know? So, you know, and I think a lot of first time dads probably have greater challenges than me who haven't had that experience because they're learning together in tandem instead of kind of like this, you know? But I'm learning lots of things because she tells me. She's like, "You don't do that anymore. They don't sleep on their backs anymore." I knew that one already.
Lisa: 26:37
That's very old-fashioned of you.
Matt: 26:41
Like I think Shannon was in our bed with a, with a pillow and a blanket in 1989. Probably, right? And it wasn't that we—we just didn't know. You know? So. But yeah, I mean your class was very helpful and we had—because you know, I'm shy. We, we had a good time.
Lisa: 27:00
You were our class clown and I loved it. I mean it as a compliment.
Matt: 27:06
I think this one got my, personality. He likes to talk to the audience that doesn't exist. There's no one there. He just likes to talk to them. What other questions do you have for us?
Lisa: 27:21
Is there anything about the pregnancy, your journey through pregnancy that you would want to share?
Liz: 27:28
Well, I had like such—everything they said happens to you, like the opposite happened to me. So they were like, "Oh, you're going to be sick." I had like zero morning sickness. Right?
Lisa: 27:41
Yay you, that's amazing.
Liz: 27:42
Yeah, "You're going to be constipated the whole time." I had the complete opposite problem the entire time. But you know, I think the biggest challenge was, is that for me in my job, I'm at a pretty high level at the organization I work for. So I think it's just not—I think tons of women are in this situation, but it was very hard being pregnant when you're in a position of power and you're a woman, because you can't really like confide in your staff in the same way about the experiences. And so there's a lot of mothers that worked for me, but it was like harder. It was in some ways it was like very, it was a lot harder to like build bridges because I was in this unique position of power over them and sort of in the working world. And then also I realized that because of where I was in my position, I had a lot more flexibility, honestly because I was the boss, right? I am the boss. And so I think the benefit for pregnancy is that like, you know, it's true if you have female leaders in an organization, your policies are probably going to improve because if they are having children, they understand sort of what needs to happen for people to want to keep working there and stuff like that. So that was just something during my pregnancy that kind of, I learned along the way about more appreciation for certain things I think.
Lisa: 29:08
That's good stuff. And do you mind my asking, how long are you taking off before you go back?
Liz: 29:13
So I can take up to four months, but I'm going to save, I'm going to do it like intermittent. So I'm actually going to go back leaving like a week and a half leftover so that can take it later on. Because I figure, you know, it's just, it's a good cushion in case there's something unpredictable that happens or what have you. We also have a more generous leave policy for our union staff members. I could take up to like eight months. So.
Lisa: 29:40
Wow, that's amazing.
Liz: 29:43
So yeah, just with the combination of like the New York policy and then our company like the FMLA stuff and then this additional union benefit they can take up to eight months.
Lisa: 29:57
We need more of that in the U.S.
Liz: 30:02
Yeah. I know. I wish we were in Canada, I think that's like one year. That's a pretty good deal. So...
Matt: 30:08
And I'm going to, I'm taking some intermittent paid family leave. You have a year to take it. So I think tentatively I'm going to take off December since we're closed half of December anyway, I get full pay for half of the month because I work for a school. So our college is closed. So if I take off half a month I'll get still decent—you know, because the paid family leave is great but it's not anywhere near what some of us—what you'd bring home. But it's a, it's a great policy and I'm glad there are some men at my job taking advantage of it. I think it's important. I think it's, I think it's great for dad to be around, too.
Lisa: 30:42
Absolutely.
Matt: 30:42
Just to bond with their, with their kid, I mean, and to give the moms a break sometimes. So we're a little nervous about daycare, as you can probably imagine.
Liz: 30:52
Yeah. I mean jumping. So I'll sort of just jump back in the conversation. I think during, I'll go back to pregnancy for a second. I think one of the overwhelming things for me about pregnancy though was the amount of tests I had to do, or that were recommended. Right? Because I was in the over 35 category. And it's sort of like you, you know, you just have too much information. And as someone who's like super anxious anyway, I was, I felt like I didn't enjoy just the process of pregnancy as much because I was always worrying about the next test result. You know? So I think, you know, it's hard to do it when it's your first pregnancy, but a word of advice is just to kind of like, if you have the right personality, try to embrace the moment rather than worrying if pregnancy is going to last or this test is going to come back whatever. So yeah. But because I think I didn't have as many physical symptoms, I then focused on this other stuff.
Lisa: 31:53
Ah. Gave you too much bandwidth, maybe.
Liz: 31:57
Yeah.
Lisa: 31:57
What about your support after you came home with the baby? Did you have extra help or what did that look like for you guys in these first few weeks?
Liz: 32:05
So my brother and my mom came up, but primarily it was the two of us. Matt took three weeks off, which was essential. But then I also have this great group of female friends who all have like one to two children and they kind of—sort of the same thing you helped us with, in terms of labor, they said "The first three weeks are hell. If you can get through the first three weeks..." And they were very specific about the first three weeks. "When you get through the first three weeks, it's like so much easier." And I think that was accurate because, you know, you have first the breastfeeding challenges, then it's like the cluster feeding tends to happen the most in that first three weeks. And then once babies get to be about a month old, there starts to be a little bit more of you've gotten into certain rhythms about things and stuff like that. And so I think the thing that was most helpful to me, even though we didn't have tons of people coming to the house, it was more just having that network of friends or people that you can actually talk to, like, "Is this normal? Why is this happening? I'm going crazy. Am I going to be okay?" That kind of thing. Yeah.
Lisa: 33:16
Yeah. Good stuff. Nice.
Matt: 33:20
There was a lot of sleeping in the first three weeks, too, for him. Feed. Sleep. Hold.
Liz: 33:25
Yeah. I think it's also just the, around, what is it, like a month and a half when their sensory input like goes—or their, what's the word I'm looking for? They start to be aware of sounds and things like that. That's a shock because you're used to being able to like do daily things around the house and them to sleep through it and then all of a sudden, no more. So.
Matt: 33:50
You close that door and he's like, "Hello. I'm ready to play."
Lisa: 33:54
Yeah. And how did you deal with your oversupply, if you don't mind my asking?
Liz: 34:02
Well, actually I saw the lactation consultant today. So for, she gave a few more tips, which is that he has a little bit of reflux, too, which is probably tied into the oversupply, is that I got that "My Breast Friend" breastfeeding pillow, which I love.
Lisa: 34:20
I had that, too.
Liz: 34:21
You can velcro it to yourself, and all these things. But she said, actually in my case, it's actually better not to use a breastfeeding pillow, or to have a different layer on underneath him that makes him breastfeed like this with his head at the top and his body down below, so that he's, you know, gravity's working against my breast basically. And so that's been, that can help a lot. At first I thought the green poop was the foremilk-hindmilk. And so then I had to switch to doing just one boob. And today, for example, he breastfed for 10 minutes and you know, they weigh the baby before and after. And he did five ounces, four to five ounces. Yeah. So it's like there's a lot happening. So, you know, it's just kind of having to manage the fact like he was choking every single time he breastfed. Like, because it was like, or I'd spray him in the face. So you know, you really have to manage that because then it's just like a really unpleasant experience. And I also was pumping incorrectly because I was trying to start building up supply for work, but she said I had been pumping way too much, which is like...
Lisa: 35:35
It can aggravate the problem. Yeah.
Liz: 35:37
So you know, the other thing I dealt with is I've learned that I have to like pump a little bit less and elevate him and sometimes even express milk before he starts eating.
Lisa: 35:48
Sure.
Liz: 35:49
So that's sort of, those are all the things that I've dealt with. But I think in turn and then in terms of me physically, it's really uncomfortable. And so now that he's, so he just started sleeping more hours at night. But for me that means I wake up with like huge boobs that he can't even latch onto. And I'm in extreme pain.
Lisa: 36:06
Oh, yeah.
Liz: 36:06
And so it's, I think it's just like you have to really, you just manage by like hot and cold compresses. You just know that because you have this issue, you're going to have to express milk a little bit more often and feed him in different positions and do things a little bit differently. Yeah.
Lisa: 36:22
Did the lactation consultant mention milk banks that you could donate if you have extra?
Liz: 36:27
No, she didn't. Yeah, she didn't mention that.
Lisa: 36:29
Just in case you end up with more than you can use, that can like save preemie’s lives.
Liz: 36:35
Maybe I'll do that.
Matt: 36:36
We have a whole freezer full because.
Liz: 36:38
I have to start from scratch, so.
Lisa: 36:42
Because of the move?
Liz: 36:42
No, because we just found out today.
Lisa: 36:46
Oh, the food intolerance...
Liz: 36:46
That he has the allergy. So I have to talk to the pediatrician, but I assume that means I can't use any of my stash.
Lisa: 36:52
Oh, I hope you could donate it rather than throw it away.
Liz: 36:56
Yeah. So maybe that's a possibility.
Lisa: 36:59
I'm happy to send you those resources if that's helpful.
Matt: 37:01
Yeah, that'd be great. Gonna I was gonna toss it. Yeah, that will be, we'll be more than happy to take it somewhere if it could help somebody.
Lisa: 37:10
Great. Will do. I just jotted that down and I'll send it to you. Well, great. Well, anything else you guys would like to share? I know that you need to probably get back to your packing and getting ready to move, given you're moving tomorrow.
Matt: 37:20
We're a disaster over here. But I'm trying to think of stuff that we planned for but ended up not using. What was the food like? Because she was like, "Oh you should be able to eat up until whenever." And they were like not having it. They were like, "No," they were like, "Once you're admitted all you can have is clear liquids or Jell-O." Because we were like, "You can't have anything?" They're like, "No." "Okay." Not that she really had time, because by the time she got in, it was like early morning and then we tried to sleep a little bit and then she was, she was already pushing by one, 1:00 PM so we really didn't have that much time.
Liz: 37:53
No, I was pushing earlier than one.
Matt: 37:57
At 12, because he was born at 2:05, 2:06. So that was, I mean other than that, it was, yeah, it was very helpful. Very helpful. I think we feel very fortunate that it went so smoothly. There wasn't a six thousand people giving birth that night. I guess The Oscars wasn't a populate night to give birth.
Lisa: 38:17
Yay for you guys. Thank you for sharing your experiences. This is really wonderful and so helpful and I love that both of you were available to talk.
Matt: 38:28
And little Lachlan, even though he's having a day.
Lisa: 38:31
I should say the three of you, your family was available. All right, thanks so much. Have a good one. Bye.
Lisa: 38:37
So, that's all for today's story. As you’re packing your bag for birth and before you purchase things, you may want to check with your hospital on what supplies are and are not provided, because every hospital is slightly different on how much supplies and what kinds of supplies they provide. I’m all for saving money if you can, but you also want to be sure you’re prepared. In Liz’s case, their hospital was amply stocked in this area. When Matt was talking about looking at the monitor and telling Liz, “Ooh, honey, that was a big one,” I just want to mention that, in general, I recommend to look AWAY from the monitor. It usually is only going to give you a FALSE sense of control. Just because one hill on the monitor that represents a contraction is bigger than another one does NOT mean she perceived it as a stronger one. This is because what we’re doing for pain coping strategies, also known as comfort measures, has everything to do with our perception of the intensity. The only time I recommend for partners to look at the monitor is if she wants to be told when she’s at the halfway mark as a coping strategy, and particularly if the contractions aren’t consistent in the length so that you can’t just do that with a timer. Matt mentioned wee pads, which are also known as “chux” (spelled c-h-u-x pads). I always recommend grabbing a box of these for a couple of purposes. First, to have underneath you in any car rides during labor to catch any bodily fluids, in a home birth to have underneath you on the bed or any plush surfaces, and to have stashed in your diaper bag for use as a disposable changing pad when you’re out and using those changing tables in public restrooms, which can be really nasty. Liz mentioned a sitz bath (that’s spelled s-i-t-z). This is a basin that sits on top of the toilet seat that your care provider might give you to fill with water and soak your perineum in several times a day after birth, particularly if you have stitches, to facilitate healing. You can simply soak in water, or you could add something like epsom salts, cooled chamomile tea or other herbs that are soothing for the skin, or a sitz bath soak. You can purchase it already made, or I have a sitz bath herbal recipe you could make if you like making homemade remedies and I'll paste that in the show notes. I’ve linked to my list of recommended products in this episode’s show notes at birthmattersshow.com, which includes not only chux pads and sitz bath soak options, but lots of other items that may be useful to you in pregnancy, labor, or in the postpartum period. Okay. Here's a sneak peek of what we have for you next week.
Speaker 1:41:11
All of the contingency plans that we could think of, we did actually kind of go through. It just feels like though, when it happens, everything's out the window. There's a baby coming. You know you got a train rolling at you. There's a plane about to...it just feels really like everything's happening all at once.
Speaker 2:41:31
We didn't even bring all our stuff with us. We only brought a small go bag, because again, the denial of, "I don't want to bring all this stuff over there if I'm not actually gonna, you know..."
Lisa: 41:41
See you next week and remember, you are your baby's best advocate.---END---
