Lisa and Clint share the details of their unexpectedly fast first labor experience that results in Clint catching their baby on the sidewalk right outside Weill Cornell hospital in Manhattan in the dead of winter. They also discuss the realities of navigating postpartum at the start of a global pandemic and the importance of giving yourself lots of grace and flexibility when parenting in these challenging times.

Resources:

Juliana Mitchell - prenatal yoga classes
Expecting Better by Emily Oster*
Cribsheet by Emily Oster*
Bringing up Bébé by Pamela Bruckman*
Tribeca Pediatrics
The Birth Partner by Penny Simkin*

Sponsor links:

East River Doula Collective (find a doula, attend our free “Meet the Doulas” event)
Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education Classes (Astoria, Queens)
Birth Matters Online/Self-Paced Course

*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.

Episode Topics:

Because she likes to plan, they wanted to take birth class
Staying active in pregnancy, slowing down gradually
Yoga with Juliana Mitchell
Uncomplicated pregnancy
Feeling Braxton Hicks
President’s Day - wakes up at 5:30am with contractions, 20 min apart
Wakes up Clint to let him know she thinks labor is starting
Using contraction app, which was not helpful
Kneeling at couch
Clint’s take on learning she was in labor and laboring at home, adjusting to a non-textbook pattern of contractions
Around 9am trickle of fluid - doc says to make way to hospital
Calling an Uber
Laid across back seat of care
Getting out of cab outside Weill Cornell
Giving birth right there at curb with Clint caching baby
Crowd of hospital staff come out
Delivery of placenta
Minor tearing
6-week checkup being virtual since the pandemic shutdown happened soon after birth
Nice to be home during pandemic to bond

Interview Transcript

Lisa T.: Hi, Lisa and Clint, how are you today?

Lisa S.: Great. How are you?

Clint S.: Doing well, thank you. How are you?

Lisa T.: Great. I'm so glad you agreed to come share your very exciting birth story with us today. First of all, can you just please introduce yourself?

Lisa S.: Sure. Thanks for having us. We're excited to be here and share our story. My name is Lisa and I have been living in Astoria for about 10 years now and gave birth to Noah just over a year ago.

Lisa T.: Happy birthday. It's kind of a fun way to commemorate the occasion.

Clint S.: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I'm Clint I've been living in Astoria for five years now. The whole time with Lisa met her when she was on a work trip when I was living in Virginia a long time ago. So moved up here to be with her and have been enjoying our time together in Astoria ever since.

Lisa T.: Nice. I always love having Astoria neighbors in my classes. And Lisa and Clint were my students back in January I think it was of 2020 and you gave birth not long before the pandemic shut down. Thank goodness. You just beat that.

Lisa S.: I'm really glad we were able to be there in person.

Lisa T.: Yes. Would you please give us a little background about how your pregnancy went and the different ways that you prepared for this journey into parenthood?

Lisa S.: Sure. Well, I was kind of nervous about the whole thing. I know it's a big change and a lot going on with your body, and I just didn't know what to expect. I like to always know what's going to happen and have a plan and be very organized when it comes to different things, so just having to just see what happens was a little bit difficult, I think. That was one of the reasons we wanted to take your class, just to learn a little bit more about what was going to happen. And what we could expect.

I also was always very active, so I really continued to do everything that I had done before. Just kind of slowed down a bit as the pregnancy progressed. Like I always ran a lot, so I switched to doing the elliptical. I kept up doing Pilates. I took prenatal yoga classes with Juliana at The Yoga Room.

Lisa T.: Yay, everybody loves her.

Lisa S.: That was amazing. I really miss that.

Lisa T.: I'll be sure to include her website in the show notes, and she's been doing virtual prenatal classes and non like regular yoga classes, too, for people online, and it's been really lovely as well as like online meditations throughout the pandemic, twice a week.

Lisa S.: So I think that was also really helpful. I feel like I learned so much from her too, about just what was going on with my body and how to be more comfortable, different positions to be in and things like that.

So I found all of that really helpful. My pregnancy was, I don't know if I would say easy, it was very uncomplicated. Right. I mean, I didn't really have any morning sickness or food aversions or really any of those sort of side effects. So as far as all that goes, I would say it was boring.

Lisa T.: Boring is good in that sense. Cool. And so Clint, were there certain books that you read to prepare to be a great labor support as well as to become a dad? Any thoughts about that? What was going on for you during pregnancy?

Clint S.: Well, I read Bringing Up Bébé, and then of course both of Emily Oster's books. And I thought that those were very helpful because I don't know, I had a little bit of trepidation just because you're kind of stepping into the unknown. So it really does help to try to learn before the birth, so that helped. And then, yeah, as far as taking the class goes it was a great time to take it being that it was a month out, it gives you a lot more confidence about that process really, really.

Lisa T.: The huge range of normal.

Clint S.: Right. Well, I mean, you go into this and you really don't have any idea what to expect. I mean, you have friends and family that have been through it before. I knew everything turns out okay. But it's one thing, to hear those stories. It's another thing to be an active participant in it. And so I think just the best part of the class was just having an idea of what was going to happen and also learning how to be helpful through the process. That makes you feel a whole lot better too about things. Just being able to know that you can help. So that's what I enjoyed about it and appreciated about it.

Lisa T.: You guys had such a quick labor, but we'll be hearing about that shortly. Sorry, spoiler alert. But I'm just thinking you probably didn't get to use a lot of the techniques that we learned in class, but maybe one or two, we will hear soon.

Lisa S.: One thing that I think that it was right after we took your class and there were some of the sort of different props and things that you had introduced us to. I did buy a yoga ball, and I sat on it a lot the last weekend, before I gave birth, I think that was the only thing I sat on.

Lisa T.: It just felt good, or why were you sitting on it?

Lisa S.: Yeah I think it was, and I could just kind of like shift around a bit and move and just. I just really loved having that.

Lisa T.: Well, I'm glad you used it in pregnancy since you probably barely used it, if at all in labor. Great. Well, anything else about pregnancy before you jump into your birth story?

Lisa S.: No, I don't think so.

Lisa T.: Is there anything in terms of like the last bit of your pregnancy like were you seeing any pre-labor signs? Were you noticing anything that seemed to be cueing you that the baby might be coming?

Lisa S.: I had some Braxton Hicks, like probably later on they weren't like all throughout the pregnancy. Like I know some people have them for a long time. So it was experiencing that and I wonder now if like, I was in early labor, maybe like the day before and thought it was just Braxton Hicks or kind of brushed it off.

Lisa T.: That's great. I mean, the longer you can ignore it, the better. Right? We talked about that in class.

Lisa S.: The day before we actually walked like a couple of miles around Astoria. I had a snake plant that died and I really wanted to get a new one. So, we were out all day doing things and I was really tired when we got home, but I mean, I was 39 weeks at that point so I figured that it was all just normal to feel that way, but maybe there was something that I missed. I don't know.

Lisa T.: So then how did labor start?

Lisa S.: So it started on a Monday morning. It was President's Day, and I was kind of hoping to go into labor earlier. I really didn't want to go past my due date. And I was like, this is a long weekend. It would be perfect. I kept saying, "I hope it happens this weekend."

But I woke up on Monday morning around 5:30 and I was pretty certain, I felt a contraction. I tried to time it, I just kind of counted to myself. I was still like laying in bed. And it lasted about a minute. So it was like, "All right, I'm just gonna, see what happens." It wasn't too intense or anything.

And then I had another one about 20 minutes later and that's when I woke Clint up to tell him that I thought it was starting, but they were so far apart that I was like, this will probably go on for a while, but just want to let you know that I think it's starting. And I think there were maybe like, two more or three more after that, that were like 18 to 20 minutes apart.

And then after that we did get a contraction timer, an app, which was another thing that you recommended. They started getting closer together, so it was like, maybe we should try timing them, and that just didn't work for us. They started getting really intense really quickly. It was very erratic.

They were, I think a lot of them were kind of short, right. Like I say, kind of like, "Okay, like it's starting," and then it would kind of subside and I'm like, "Wait, I think it's over." And then it would get really intense. So I was kind of unsure if I was having contractions or what was happening.

Lisa T.: It's hard when it's really, really non textbook. I mean that frequency is often not textbook, but it sounds like even more than the frequency was erratic for you.

Lisa S.: Yeah. So I think because they weren't kind of following the timing that we expected, I wasn't sure if I was having contractions, but now, you know, talking to my doctor after, explaining kind of what happened to people in the medical field or whatever everyone's like, "Yeah, those were contractions."

Lisa T.: Can you describe like where in your body you were feeling it? Is there any way to articulate that?

Lisa S.: Towards the last couple of weeks of the pregnancy, the baby got very low. So I felt a lot of like pressure, like very--

Lisa T.: Your bladder?

Lisa S.: Yeah. Kind of like low back, like all around like that area. So it just felt like really heavy there, if that makes sense. And throughout this whole time, when I was laboring at home once the contractions really started picking up, I was just like kneeling at the couch. I couldn't really like stand up straight. I couldn't sit on anything.

Like I was just like really comfortable kind of kneeling. I had my head resting on the couch, which I think was another position that we learned from you. And I was able to just, one of the things I really took away from yoga is just learning to breathe. So I really was like laying there and just trying so hard to just focus on breathing and kind of forget about what I was feeling and try not to think about that too much. So I do think all of that helped.

Lisa T.: Good. Yeah. That focusing on the breath is just such an amazing distraction for many people. Yeah. And Clint, can we back up for a second to when Lisa woke you up, what did you think? How did you respond?

Clint S.: Oh, I just remember being pretty calm about it at the beginning. Like, "Okay, well, this has started and maybe just like excited too, that we're gonna get to meet our baby soon. I think though, at the point where the contractions were erratic and we really couldn't time it, I started, I think we were on the phone with the doctor twice, at least. And I was really relieved. I think it was the second call they said to come in because I had this sense of urgency, like we need to go, I'm going to feel better when we get to the hospital because I wasn't sure, well, because I'd never been through the experience before, what stage we were in and it seemed to me to be very, you were in a severe amount of pain, you know, and--

Lisa S.: There was there was some screaming.

Clint S.: Yeah, there was some screaming and it just, I don't know, I just felt a sense of urgency that like we needed to move, we needed to get going, and after the first call with the doctor, I was like, kind of worried about well, we've got to stay here a bit longer now. Oh, I remember too a bit, it was even hard to get you dressed and out the door. I mean, you have to put on flip flops, you couldn't even put on shoes, tie your shoes.

So you got to walk out in flip flops. So yeah, I mean, it was, I was ready to go early on in the process, even though maybe I didn't verbalize that or anything.

Lisa T.: Yeah, because I was going to say that sounds like a discrepancy a little bit from between what Lisa was saying. Like, "Oh no, we don't need to go anywhere," was the messaging. I was hearing that she was hearing from you.

Lisa S.: Well, he was keeping me calm, but maybe on the inside.

Clint S.: I think on the inside, it was different because what I remember now that you mention that, I do think maybe because I was trying to tell myself this too, we have plenty of time. In the class, we learned X amount of time and we're still in the early stage of this, so everything's okay, but at the same time I'm feeling.

Lisa T.: Maybe we're the exception to the rule. Yeah. Since I do say many times, there's a huge range of normal, but yeah. Oh my goodness.

Lisa S.: One of the other things too is, I mean, with this whole process I've never been in the hospital for anything or had any sort of medical issues. And I don't like hospitals; whenever I visited people there, I would get kind of faint. So I was just kind of scared about being in there as the patient. And I really didn't want any sort of, I didn't really want an epidural. I was nervous about things like that too. And I was like, not like dead set against it. It was more like I'm going to try not to, but we'll see what happens. Kind of keeping an open mind. And I remember when I was home and maybe 2 hours into this process, the amount of pain I was in, I was just like, I don't know how much worse is it going to get if I'm doing this for like the next 18 hours or something.

Lisa T.: Doesn't that play mind games with you, because no one can tell you how long you have to do this intensity. Yeah.

Lisa S.: So I'm, glad that, in that respect, that things moved quickly and that was probably like the worst of it.

Lisa T.: Yeah, it really seems like you woke up at 5:30 AM in active labor because your body was just like very efficient for a first timer.

Lisa S.: Yeah. It was probably around 9:00 AM that I noticed there was like a trickle of water or something coming out, so that's when we called the doctor the second time and she's like, "Your waters probably broke. You just start, no rush, but you want to make your way to the hospital." So That's what we did.

Lisa T.: Do you guys drive or did you get an Uber or a Lyft?

Lisa S.: We took an Uber. It took us a little while to get out the door because I insisted that Clint deflate my yoga ball.

Lisa T.: You wanted to be prepared cause I have had students who were so sad that they made it to the hospital without it. Good for you.

Clint S.: Took, what, like 10 minutes.

Lisa T.: And it does, yeah. Can take a little while.

Clint S.: It was 10 minutes that we really didn't have to spare.

Lisa S.: Yeah. I remember, we made our way out and Clint went to the driver and explained the situation just like you taught us.

Lisa T.: For listeners, what she's talking about is I recommend handling logistics out of her earshot because her hearing you handle logistics really activates her, what's called the neocortex, the thinking brain. And we need to just let that thinking brain rest and not have to think about anything else. And so that's where that recommendation comes from to go out to the cabby and just to like, say, "Hey, just want to let you know she's in labor, but there's no rush. Take your time." Well, maybe there was a rush in your case, but just to let them know kind of what's going on so that they're less likely to panic and go dangerously fast.

Lisa S.: I actually thought he drove like very normally.

Clint S.: Yeah, he was a solid driver and not only that though, we were lucky too, that being it was a holiday, traffic wasn't too bad. Yeah. There really wasn't any, we were able to get over the bridge pretty quickly. What you think, like 20 minute trip from here to the hospital?

Lisa T.: So is this on actual Monday President's Day or is it just that weekend?

Lisa S.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we were going to Weill Cornell. So I laid across the backseat of the car because I couldn't sit or do anything and I just remember, like laying there and trying to breathe. And I think the contractions were getting like really close together at that point. And I was just kind of I think screaming a lot of the way and I was like, "I'm so sorry, like don't mind me. Just ignore me." Kept apologizing to the driver for the noise.

Lisa T.: Clint, were you in the back seat or the front seat?

Clint S.: I think you, were you laying on me?

Lisa S.: I was like laying like on his lap.

Clint S.: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And I don't know if at that point you had started to say that you felt like he was coming, and my memory's a bit foggy at this point about it, but I think you said that and I was like, it's still like, "Oh no it's, early, you know, it's too soon, we have plenty of time here still." And at the same time in the back of my mind, I remember being like pretty, like, nervous about this. Like, we're gonna have to have the baby in the Uber. I just remember just being anxious at that point, just because of the way you were at that point.

Lisa T.: Were you spontaneously bearing down at that point? Lisa? Do you remember? I'm sure it's a little foggy.

Lisa S.: Well, I also feel like because I was like laying on my side in kind of like a weird position. I'm not really sure kind of what I was doing as far as that goes.

Lisa T.: That makes sense.

Lisa S.: So, it was laying there and I guess, I don't know, holding him in, but maybe being like laying on my side like that in the car kind of helped.

Lisa T.: That is a recommendation for a labor that's going really fast is lie down because maybe that'll slow it down. So great. That's good that you did that.

Clint S.: Gotta bookmark that for the next child.

Lisa T.: Or maybe you need to give birth at home next time and not have to transfer.

Lisa S.: Once we got out of the car, I realized like it was like happening, I think. A security guard came out with a wheelchair when he saw us and he was like, "Sit down." And Clint was telling me too, they were like, "Sit down," and I'm like, "I can't sit down." I'm like, "I think there's something there," and so I was facing the wheelchair, holding on to the armrest kind of hunched over. And I was like, "He's coming."

Clint S.: As soon as she said that, like, I'm still at this point where I do not want to believe that the baby is coming, right. We're not in the hospital. We're not with the doctor, I don't want to believe it. But when she told me that I knew a hundred percent, that that baby was coming. And the way I reacted to this was --it's coming. So, she had sweat pants on, I pulled down her sweat pants. Right. And it's outside. And there's Noah, there he is. I can see his head and, I'm like this baby is coming out right now. And I just got under her and I caught him. I remember being like covered in amniotic fluid and holding him. And, I remember too, I was relieved because he came out, I guess, the way he was supposed to, right and he cried almost immediately. So I remember being relieved and I remember this baby in my arms and I, like, "I don't know what to do with this guy. I'm just holding him here." And a woman came out, I don't know if she was a nurse or a doctor there. I don't think she was like on her shift or anything, but she took Noah and wrapped him in her coat. And then I think another, what was it?

Lisa S.: Another couple came out. They were leaving the hospital and they stopped. And they kind of helped us and the woman was like, "Do you want me to try to get you some blankets? Or do you want me to cover you?" And I was like, I think I was in so much shock that I was just like, "I don't know, like it doesn't matter. I'm fine."

Clint S.: I think at the same time, right, they were trying to just assist. And I forget who, maybe it was security, I don't know. But there were people that ran out from the ER not too long thereafter that it seemed like, I don't know, like a lot of people it's like, 9 or 10 people.

Lisa S.: There were a lot of people, all of a sudden came running towards us. And this whole time, Clint was behind me when he caught Noah. So I still haven't seen the baby.

Lisa T.: Right cause you were leaning over the wheelchair, right yeah?

Lisa S.: They were all kind of telling us like, oh, he looks perfect. You're fine. Like great job. Like reassuring. So I'm just standing there and I'm like, still like leaning over this wheelchair and I'm like, did this really just happen? I didn't even, I couldn't even really process what was going on.

Lisa T.: I bet you never thought in class, when we went through pushing positions and giving birth positions, when I said standing and leaning over, I bet you never envisioned yourself leaning over a wheelchair at the curb of Weill Cornell.

Lisa S.: Definitely not. But yeah, I mean, I knew that like kneeling position sort of, sounded like that was something that would work for me and that I wanted to do more so than like lying on my back. But I was, that was like another thing I was just worried about, like, how am I going to make sure that they let me do this? And there are just all these different thoughts that I had. And I just,

Lisa T.: Took that all out of the equation.

Lisa S.: I didn't have to worry about these things. And so I guess one of the doctors that came out took the baby and passed him between my legs, like in front of me and had me hold him and sit down in the wheelchair and they brought us inside.

Lisa T.: Because the cord is still attached, right. So they needed to like do this little football punt to you.

Lisa S.: When we got inside the ER, there were even more people standing around waiting to greet us.

Lisa T.: Did they have you sit in the wheelchair and wheel you in or did you walk in?

Lisa S.: They wheeled me in. Yeah.

Lisa T.: Usually they're pretty like, "You have a seat, even if you haven't given birth yet and you're just in labor, they often offer you a wheelchair. Okay. I was just curious.

Lisa S.: And so they started, one of the doctors started asking me all sorts of questions and throughout this, I guess, while this was happening, it was only like a couple of minutes, if that, before an OB came and she just kind of took a look at me and the baby and she was like, "They look fine. We're just going to go, I'm just going to take them to labor and delivery, like you don't need to do anything here." So we went upstairs and I delivered the placenta there. Kind of finished things off and Clint cut the cord. We wanted to delay that as long as possible, which because of the way things worked.

Lisa T.: Inevitable.

Clint S.: At least that part of the plan worked out.

Lisa T.: Yeah, I mean I would think that you got like way more than they normally would have given you just under the circumstances.

Lisa S.: Yeah. So we didn't have to ask for that extra time for that. I mean, I just feel really lucky that the whole thing turned out just fine and there were no complications or anything weird that happened. It was just that it all just happened so, so fast.

Lisa T.: And Clint, any thoughts on, I mean, I'm sure you were just in fight or flight mode catching that baby, catching your son, but any reflections on those moments or afterwards?

Clint S.: Yeah, no, it's funny because we had talked to friends, obviously about this after the event and one of our friends said, "Oh, my husband, he would have fainted he could have never done that." And I'm like, I don't think so. I think, it's just like, it was just like kind of like a natural thing to do that you're not going to let your child fall onto the concrete. I mean, you will do whatever it takes. It was almost like involuntary, I would say, that's how I feel about it. I mean, I didn't even have time to think. It was just natural, it's like, "Here he is. I got to catch him."

Lisa T.: Right. Yeah. My husband has, I don't know if you're familiar with vasovagal syncope, but like sight of blood? Plunk. Like passes out, or at least gets really lightheaded and thinks he's about to pass out. And he helped catch our baby when we had to with our second born and totally was able to do it. So it's amazing what our bodies can do and can surprise us with, right? Yeah. And I just want to mention just so listeners don't get it in their head that this is really common for a first timer that I've taught thousands of students over the so far, 11 years that I've been doing this work. And to my knowledge, you guys are the third couple in those thousands of students to give birth who didn't make it to their birth place. So it's not super common. And, it's a great story to tell, right. And in all three circumstances, things went fine and it almost always is just fine. And then you do have, I have a good story to tell. Do you remember your early discussions about this after like the initial shock of it all and processing through that together? Just any reflections on that?

Lisa S.: I think we just like went over what happened, several times probably just talked through what happened, trying to figure out what did we miss? Where did we go wrong? Not realizing like what was happening or something along those lines. And I remember when I was in the hospital and my doctor, wasn't the one on call when we got there. But I saw her the day that we were coming home and she walks into the room, like, "What happened?" And I'm like, "I have no idea. I thought we were all prepared. I think I skipped a stage of labor or something," and she's like, "Yeah, that's what it sounds like." A lot of the things that I was really worried about, I wound up not having to--

Lisa T.: You avoided it altogether. That's great. When our midwife didn't make it to us with our second baby, she swore several times, "Lisa, I just think something deep in your psyche wanted it to be a family only affair." And I was like, "Okay." But it makes me think of you in this situation of like maybe something in your psyche was like, "Nope, I'm just going to be really efficient here." Whether we realize it or not. I don't know. And that's so special that Noah will always be able to say it was daddy's hands who welcomed him into the world. I just think that is the coolest thing.

Lisa S.: I did get a call a few days after we came home. I guess from the hospital, they had some questions filling out the birth certificate. That there was no attending doctor listed and--

Lisa T.: Can we list the security guard or dad?

Lisa S.: We had to kind of explain like, "Well, it wasn't a doctor that delivered him."

Lisa T.: Did they say the hospital's name since you were on the property?

Lisa S.: So they listed Clint as the attending.

Lisa T.: I love that.

Clint S.: It was the "other" box right and they printed my name.

Lisa T.: That's so cool. You can now be an OB or a midwife.

Yeah Clint, you'll probably for years from now, you'll probably be called a midwife or an OB cause my husband they're always like midwife Bryan, whether he wants that or not.

Lisa S.: But I think before we took your class, I never would have even thought of doing anything other than having my baby in the hospital. But after learning that there are so many other options that looking back on kind of how things went for us, had I known what it would be like, which I guess you never really know, but I think in the future, or even for like other people that are thinking about it, if you feel like you would be more comfortable at home or in another setting, I would definitely recommend looking into that.

Lisa T.: Yeah. And please keep me posted if you conceive another baby I'd love to hear what your choice ends up being along those lines, either something really close or at home might be really excellent options.

Lisa S.: Well, one of the things like my doctor told me was if I did have another baby that they would likely schedule an induction because it went so fast and they wouldn't want to sort of you know, risk me not getting into the hospital in time.

Lisa T.: That is quite interesting. What are your thoughts on that? What are your feelings on that?

Lisa S.: I don't know that I love that idea. I was just like, okay, we'll see what happens. I don't know, what's next for us, but I don't know that that's something I'd want either, but we'll see.

Lisa T.: That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing that. It surprises me that, did they say that like in the first day or two after birth, or was it like at your six week or?

Lisa S.: I think it was during my postpartum visit. Yeah. Which was virtual because everything had started locking down at that point.

Lisa T.: Right, yeah, your six week appointment was probably at like the very beginning. And as things were getting really scary here in the city.

Lisa S.: I was not super happy about that.

Lisa T.: I'm sure. Yeah.

Lisa S.: I don't know what I was supposed to feel like at the time and just seeing someone on the screen when this was all very new, all this virtual stuff, it was, I think the first time I did anything virtually and now obviously I think people are much more comfortable with it, but it did make me nervous that I wasn't actually seeing the doctor in person

I think she focused more on just asking mentally how I was doing. But yeah, as far as like physically, it was just like, "No, you're probably fine."

Lisa T.: It's okay if you're not comfortable sharing this, but did you have stitches? Did you have tearing?

Lisa S.: I had a slight tear.

Lisa T.: And what was Noah's weight?

Lisa S.: He was seven pounds and three ounces.

Lisa T.: Almost the national average last I checked, it was like seven two, which was what my son was, our first born. Yeah. Well, are there any other things you haven't gotten to share that you wanted to share or any specific insights in your year of being parents that you'd like to share with expectant or new parents?

Lisa S.: I think, no matter how much we read or prepared or thought we did, it obviously it didn't go the way that we thought it would, but I would just say to keep an open mind and just kind of go with the flow because no matter what you do to prepare whether it's more a textbook case than what we had things are still not going to go exactly the way you expect. So just be ready for that. For surprises.

Clint S.: I guess, yeah, like you said, I would just say be flexible. I just remember throughout your labor and then this birth being relieved for you and the baby at the end of it. And that's just because, like I said before, just not having any experience of that at all, it's like an anxious time. I don't know if you felt any anxiety at all, during that, but you were like concentrating on the labor.

Lisa S.: Yeah. I couldn't really think much beyond that; I was just remembering to breathe. That was--

Clint S.: Yeah, I think the best advice I could say during the labor is just like, don't think too far ahead, be ready, be prepared, plan so you know what to do when the time comes, but when, you're helping just go from one thing to the next, don't think too far ahead in the process, just do your job at the point you need to do it.

And then it's been interesting, too, this first year with Noah. I mean, the pandemic has been awful, but I feel like, too, it's been nice that we've been able to be home with him, like a whole lot more than we would have been since we're both working from home. So Yeah, there's a silver lining.

Lisa T.: That's what I've heard from a lot of new parents is, "Wow, like we wouldn't have had so much time in the home together." And that that has offset, for people who have given birth and been pregnant during the pandemic, and whose partners have not been able to go to the prenatal visits, you might think that might hinder bonding. But then on the other side of birth, many of them have had more time and that's been a silver lining. Glad to hear that that's been the case for you.

Lisa S.: Yeah. He's doing great and I'm just thankful that he has no idea these times that we're living in. And so he is very lucky in that regard.

Lisa T.: Do you mind my asking the timing for each of you, in terms of when you started feeling bonded, connected to your baby? Was that during pregnancy was that at, well at birth was so hectic that I don't know if it could have been right at birth. Just like, you're like, "Where's my baby? I don't know where my baby went!" Or, in those first few hours after birth, or was it days or weeks or months after birth that you started feeling that? For each of you?

Lisa S.: I think I felt that during my pregnancy a bit. He was very active in the womb and so I think that like constant moving and, feeling him there for so long made it feel much more real for me that like, there's actually something there. But once he came out, we got rushed upstairs and all this stuff was happening and I still, I couldn't even believe that I actually had a baby. So it took a minute to realize that he's actually here now.

And I think one other thing too, and you were probably going to say this, but I think soon after we came home, just talking about it, we both realized, even though he's only been here for such a short time, we feel like he's always been with us. It's kind of hard to remember a time without Noah, even though he's so new.

Clint S.: Yeah, that's actually, that's what I was about to say. And that's what I remember. I remember having that discussion with you and I remember that being of course, very early on, maybe like a few days, maybe even a week, after he came home. But yeah. I mean, it felt like he was, he was part of the family. Even though I have all these memories before Noah, it just felt like he was always a part of our family. It would be strange for him to be away now, for a day or two, it really would be. It's very hard to really articulate that feeling.

Lisa T.: I also wonder if the timing of the pandemic shut down being so soon after the birth for me, I don't know about you guys, but that has caused such a bizarre time warp kind of thing, where I see things in emails or I'm reminded of things that happened right before the shutdown, and I'm like, that was last year? It feels like it was like three years ago. It can't be last year.

Lisa S.: I think things started shutting down so soon after we had him that yes, having a baby changes your life, but it's hard to sort of figure out what's changed because we had a baby or because there's a pandemic and everything that we've done before it was like before Noah.

So that's kind of strange too. But it's just been kind of figuring things out as we go, like any new parents. We often feel like we have no idea what we're doing, or we're not sure what we're supposed to do. And we've made it through the first year and I'm sure we'll continue feeling like we have no idea what we're doing.

Lisa T.: I wanted to ask you how did you feel when they discharged you from the hospital to go home? I know when we were speaking before I hit record, you both said you were ready to go home, but just like what was going on in your head as they were probably wheeling you out in a wheelchair with your baby and Clint, you were walking probably by her side. I'm guessing.

Lisa S.: My mom drove us home from the hospital, so I think that was helpful just that we weren't completely alone at first. There was like another person there who knew what to do,

Lisa T.: Had done it before, yeah.

Lisa S.: But it was definitely like in those first few days, I remember, I think both of us just didn't sleep a lot because we were constantly like checking, like, "Is he breathing?" Like, "He's too quiet,"

Lisa T.: Like every new parent.

Lisa S.: Watching and worrying. So there was a lot of that.

Clint S.: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we would do that if we had another child just, but I mean, you have to experience it first. But yeah, I do remember that now. Just like, "Oh, is he okay?" Like waking up and having to go over and check.

Lisa S.: I mean, I still do that sometimes. He's sleeping in his own room and I still, like, if I wake up during the night, sometimes I'll either check the monitor. I don't go into his room as much anymore, but I do still, if I wake up for any reason, I feel like I need to check on him. I started out trying to breastfeed and it was really difficult.

And that was one of the things I just didn't feel like super confident coming home from the hospital doing, and we tried and gave it a try for a couple of weeks. And then I started pumping for awhile and then just eventually switched to formula feeding, probably like two and a half, three months after he was born.

And I think part of what made it even more difficult was because everything was starting to shut down and there wasn't everyone wasn't like up and running with virtual consultations and help--

Lisa T.: Yeah, everyone was scrambling.

Lisa S.: We were so nervous, like watching the news; there was just like, too much going on that it was hard I think, to kind of focus on that.

Lisa T.: And probably [didn't have] the emotional energy to pour into it because it's so emotionally fraught, which a lot of us don't realize going into it.

Lisa S.: I think just you know the timing that just made that really challenging for us.

Lisa T.: Yeah. I mean, in these pandemic times, I think it's so important to give ourselves lots of grace and lots of flexibility, and where we might've been really like, determined to do something before, like you only have so much energy and our mental health does matter, so yeah, I totally get that.

Lisa S.: That's something that I wanted to try, but I wasn't like, "Oh, if I don't do it, I'm a failure." I didn't have that attitude, like, we'll see what happens and I'll try. And so I think maybe because I had that sort of mindset going into it with everything else that was going on, I just was like, you know what I can't.

Lisa T.: Thank you for sharing that. I think that will help someone out there. All right, well, thank you so much. It's been lovely to reconnect with you, even if it's on zoom or our new normal, and yeah, I really appreciate your taking the time to share your story. It's been very exciting and very fun to hear more details.

Lisa S.: Thank you for having us.

Clint S.: Thank you very much for having us. Appreciate it.

Lisa S.: Thanks. Bye.