Today we pick up with the birth story that we started last week with Adriane Stare, so if you didn’t listen last week, be sure to listen to that first. To review, this is Adriane’s 2nd IVF and birth story to share. The first story was shared back at the top of Season 2 in episode 40 and was a birth at home. This birth story didn’t go quite the same way due to the fact that her baby was in an awkward position, and we left off last week just before Adriane’s midwife advises them to transfer to the hospital. Today she shares how she was still able to have a vaginal birth, but also shares some of the challenges she faced in the hospital environment, particularly after the birth.
Episode Topics:
She wasn’t allowed to push during contractions for baby’s sake
Now more fresh meconium was coming out with fluid, so midwife felt like baby was too stressed and started suggesting making plans to transfer
Adriane wants to get the transfer done as fast as possible because she’s so uncomfortable
Every crams into car with a friend’s dad who looks like Santa Claus
Arrival at Woodhull 15-20 minutes later
Husband thinks she’s going to have a cesarean
Internal fetal scalp electrode inserted because they couldn’t
Just a few pushes and baby is born
[look up timing of change in ACOG recommendations on suctioning for meconium, talk about this change]
Doing the breast crawl after separation for around 5 minutes for suctioning
Doctor asking why she was trying to give birth at home
Them wanting to take the baby for blood sugar testing, his sugars are low and formula supplementation is brought up as potentially necessary
Advocating for the heel stick to be done while baby is on mom’s body, which that seemed to inconvenience them
Baby’s response to so much feeding (because Adriane was trying to avoid formula)
All the disruptions in postpartum - feeling so hungry, having terrible afterpains and needing motrin, but the timing of their giving it to her isn’t helpful, trying to leave hospital at 24 hrs but the hospital didn’t have staffing to release her so late at night (11pm)
Checking out the next morning
Getting home to everything a mess, feeling overwhelmed with all the childcare and housework
Fairly quickly assembling a support team - postpartum doula, nanny, housecleaner
No regrets along the way
Resources:
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Interview Transcript
Adriane: It just felt so intense. Like my body was trying to purge everything that was inside of it, but the baby wasn't coming lower and his heart rate was going lower. And so people were trying to shift things quickly to change this in a very calm way. No one was worried. But his heart was deceling to a place where the midwife was feeling uncomfortable.
[00:00:17] This is why you choose an amazing midwife is because they don't wait until the baby's really not doing well before they make changes. You don't want to wait till you're in the red before you make a change. Do you want to wait until you see that things are not going as green as you want. Maybe they're looking yellow. That's when you make changes.
[00:00:35]So during contractions, I wasn't allowed to push. And if anyone has had the stomach flu, the violent, violent stomach flu, where they just, everything in their body is saying, I have to puke. And once you do, you can't stop wretching.
[00:00:49] And like, maybe your body is the other end is coming out. Imagine that's happening to you. And then someone says, but if you actually throw up or like go with that feeling, you're going to kill your baby. It was brutal. So all of this energy I had to sort of move my body and change positions and climb these terribly narrow basement stairs two at a time, I was like really pushing myself any energy I had, as soon as my midwife said, "You have to like have a contraction, but not push to try and ease up on him and give him a little bit of a break so that we can switch positions and get you back in." It zapped me completely. I went from like, strong, but tired birthing person who'd been birthing basically all day, to someone who-- I couldn't even see straight, I was so tired. It was like really beating me up inside.
[00:01:43]My body was quaking and quivering to try and like get that baby out. And I had to literally breathe it away and like not allow it to happen. It was, it's like fighting the tidal wave is what it felt like. Like a tsunami. I, as my own person, was not strong enough to fight that urge, which is amazing, right?
[00:02:02] That your body reminds you; your body's going to get that baby out one way or the other, even if it's not good conditions for the baby, it's going to expel something eventually on its own. If I had passed out, it probably would've happened. And at this point, like, my water was changing and meconium was actually present.
[00:02:19] So as soon as that happened, the midwife said, "The baby's too stressed. You know, we could keep going like this. And maybe the baby comes, that's always the hope, but we want to start making plans for an alternative in case that doesn't happen. And I don't think she was even really particularly worried at this point because his head was right there.
[00:02:40] Like that was what was so hard is that I had birthed him-- he was through the cervix, he was already dropping down. Everyone could feel his head. It was only a knuckle away, but we were sort of in this holding pattern where something just wasn't quite right. And she took my husband the other room to try and like broach the subject of a transfer with him thinking maybe that would be like a really hard thing to hear or that we would be sensitive to it. And I think like we were all game for it. I was like, anything that's going to end this misery that I'm in is like, if we're going to do it let's just not talk about it. Let's like, go now, let's go right in this moment.
[00:03:15] Like this next contraction, like after it, I'm going to make moves to get myself out of this house because the thought of having to dress your fully naked pregnant body that is full of poop-- its own poop, your baby's poop, fluids. You have a baby literally sitting in your vagina and your butt at the same time.
[00:03:33] So you can't even walk right. Right. It's such an awkward place to be in and to have to like put on some clothes and some shoes in the freezing Christmas weather and like take a car somewhere. What? It was like beyond me. I was like, so if we're going to do this, let's do this in as efficient time as possible.
[00:03:51] Cause I don't even want to, I don't want to think about this. So I managed to get up the stairs. It took me a few contractions to get up. And my husband took a summer dress that, had a zip in the back, just like a little cotton thing and put it on me. And I threw on some Depends and like a huge walking, sleeping bag of a coat and the same slippers, the Smartwool slipper booties that I had worn all pregnancy that were so amazing. It was the one pair of shoes I wore, I loved it. Put those on and I was like, "Let's go." And I was like losing consciousness almost. That's how intense these feelings were. And I remember going out into the hallway of our apartment building and the fluorescent lights and like, just being like, "This is so surreal."
[00:04:36] And I was making my way to the front door. In the meantime, my husband had to call our friend Kristin, who had a son, who was a little bit older than our son who was really the only person that our kid would trust to be with. And her dad was in town and she had said earlier, "If you need any help, my dad's in town. So like I'm happy to come over or whatever." And we called her up and we said, "Hey, can you come over and be with Damien and can your dad drive us to the hospital?" Or she might've suggested it. Otherwise we were taking a cab and we also lived across the street from a police precinct, but like, I just didn't want to mess with that.
[00:05:15] So, we had many routes to get there, but she said, yes, we're coming over right now. My dad will take you guys to the hospital. We said, okay. So we get into the vestibule of our building. And I remember like people coming in, walking past me and I must have sent them the death stare, like with this, "If you even acknowledge the situation that you're looking at right now. Like you will die. Like, I will shoot you with lasers. Don't talk to me. Don't look at me. You didn't see this." It's like I erased it from their mind. I felt like I had that power. It was so intense to be witnessed by strangers in this like weird limbo where the baby's right there.
[00:05:57] And it was just so messy. And the midwife said she was like, "You know what? Maybe the baby comes in the car." Like we had to prepare for that. Like maybe the baby. So we were grabbing chux pads and stuff in case the baby righted itself and came out in the car. She said that actually might not be an awful thing, right? Like we're trying to get this baby out. So he's healthy and happy. And so we're waiting what feels like too long. Like any extra minute that goes by is like another two contractions that I'm taking and I'm exhausted.
[00:06:25] Lisa: Where's your son?
[00:06:27] Adriane: So Kristin was coming over and like, it was going to be a handoff where she was going to stay with the kiddo. And then her dad was going to take us in the car to the hospital.
[00:06:35] Lisa: Ok, that's what I was assuming; I just wanted to verify.
[00:06:38] Adriane: I think she might've driven over, like right before her dad came, which might've been it. So she could be with him while we were doing this handoff. But it was late. I think he was sleeping at this point.
[00:06:48]It was probably like 10 o'clock at night. So he, if he wasn't sleeping, he should have been. But I think that my husband had put him to sleep at some point. And so she was just coming over to be with him in case he woke up or whatever, or in the morning or who knows? Yeah,
[00:07:03] Lisa: So this is like 16-ish hours into the labor?
[00:07:06] Adriane: Yeah. It's like 16-ish hours into labor. So Kristen's dad drives up and I kid you not, he looks exactly like Santa Claus. Exactly. Just biggest, roundest, rosiest cheeks, huge white beard, like, tufted beard, like glass spectacles. I, it was like the first thing I said, I was like, "Oh my God, you look just like Santa."
[00:07:29] And I was like, "We're riding in Santa's sleigh and [gonna] have this baby that's like tearing everybody up on its way out of my body and everyone's sh*tting." And it was just so funny. And my doula's in the backseat with me. And she's trying to help me get in positions while I'm having contractions in like, because part of the beauty of birth is that you can put yourself in positions that like alleviate pain.
[00:07:53] But when you are in the backseat of someone's car, you have very limited positioning options. And we were going and I, we were hitting speed bumps and sh*t, and I was just like every bump that we hit was just like excruciating. And I remember thinking like, "Can we not just be there? I was like, are you running red lights? Like, are people running red lights, because we cannot stop this journey. We need to get there. We cannot be obeying laws." And I think, I think I rattled him a little bit.
[00:08:18] Lisa: And is your midwife in a different car?
[00:08:21] Adriane: She was. Oh God, were we all in the same car, she might've been in the front seat and Greg and my doula were on either side of me.
[00:08:31] Lisa: So you really have limited mobility.
[00:08:33] Adriane: We all went together in one car and we transfer to our closest hospital that has a labor and delivery unit that's run by midwives. So, that was where we intended to go. Because as a home birth transfer, we felt that that was going to be the most favorable option.
[00:08:47] Also, it was only, you know, 15-20 minutes away, without blowing red lights. So we arrive and we're all trying to like pile out of the car and just getting out of the car was so awkward and the amount of contractions I had had, and the amount of stress that I had experienced in just that 15 minutes of like sent me into an entirely other state of being, I was like, halfway there. We get out and like, I'm at the point where I can no longer really walk or support myself. So I'm taking these huge contractions that are so intense in the deepest squat with like each arm over my husband and my doula in full squat, like goddess style, just with all of my 200 something pounds on them. And like a couple times just on this tiny little walk into the hospital.
[00:09:39] And I think that something happened in that moment, I think just the harrowing crazy car ride and just this having to shift all the positions, like changed something. And I got in and they brought out a gurney and I remember thinking like, "Oh my God, I'm supposed to get up on something and lay flat. Like, I can't do that." But I just did what I was told. I was like, "Just help me up. You know, if you guys can just like help me, I can like get up." And they put me in the elevator that fits people on gurneys and being in an elevator, all of a sudden with like the fluorescent lights and two dudes, two med techs that I didn't know, it was like I was waiting for like elevator music to start playing. After I--it was so weird, it was such a different environment. I was like, I completely feel like you're at the hands of everyone else now. They call the shots. If they say you have to get on this gurney to come up, that's what you have to do.
[00:10:28] If they tell you, you have to have an [IV], you really are like, you've ceded your power to another set of humans that you don't have a relationship with. So it's a little bit of a shock. So we get up to the L and D floor. They wheel me right in. My husband is certain that they're cutting you open for a C-section.
[00:10:43] He's just trying to get through paperwork. He is stressed out, but he's certain that that's why we're there, because that's why you go to the hospital.
[00:10:49] Lisa: Yeah. Most people think it's always an emergency C-section if it's a transfer from a home birth.
[00:10:53] Adriane: Yeah, absolutely. And that's a possibility that we fully entertained. And if they were to have given me a c-section, I would have been stoked because it would have ended this crazy state I was in. But, I had all these weird positions I had this time to basically like hit the threshold of death. That's what it felt like. And we're in this hospital and like, we get upstairs and like, I remember telling me they had, so I'm like getting put in my bed and they're like starting, I think maybe they're giving me a little oxygen and they tell me that I have to like, get undressed and put a gown on.
[00:11:24] And I remember just how ridiculous that was. I feel a baby coming out of like one of my body holes. And like, this is like a huge, like miracle crazy life or death situation. And you want to like put a gown on me.
[00:11:39] Lisa: Right? You care about clothing?!
[00:11:41] Adriane: I was like, "Do you think that anything about what's just been happening, like with Depends and Santa and all of this is like...modesty? Like that was their priority is that they got me dressed appropriately.
[00:11:52] And I remember thinking like, "Can't I just be naked? I do not care who is in this room." I don't, at this point, I'm past the point of caring who you all are. I just want to let you know how I'm doing. And I want to be naked. So I'm like, "Just put it on me, you know, do your thing." And I think they hooked me up to some IV fluids and I'm in the hospital jam now. Now you have a group of people around you treating you. So, midwives, doctors are coming in and there was a male OB, he was not a midwife, who came in and he checked me during a contraction. And he said, "I think you're okay to push." And then he checked me again and the baby was actually descending. So yay. That was so beautiful.
[00:12:36] Lisa: And was your midwife allowed to be there with you?
[00:12:39] Adriane: Yes. My midwife had a relationship with one [of the midwives]. She called ahead. She had called ahead to let them know we were coming in.
[00:12:45] She had thought maybe this might've been like a vacuum assist, but the baby was close enough that this was not. I of course had no idea. I just needed to like end the awfulness that was happening, but she was not as pessimistic, I guess, or in her mind, we were far enough along that this could potentially end in a vaginal birth just as easily-- could go either way.
[00:13:06] So she's in the room with me and my doula's in the room with me. My husband's still signing paperwork. He's sweating. He thinks they're wheeling me off to the OR, and the fact when he came back in the room that like, I was still there, he was so happy that was not happening right in that moment.
[00:13:18] But of course they couldn't get the Doppler on my stomach. Right? They give you that stretchy band with the, the heart rate monitor on my stomach, they just couldn't get a read on it. And I'm like my midwife who had an assistant who was fully able to position her whole body, like between my legs, during my weird positions to get that heartbeat, like according to how my body was and not so that my body had to meet the needs of the Doppler, like that's what you get in a home birth is that you get free movement of positioning and people who are able to help get the information they need without sort of disturbing what your natural state is. But they couldn't get a good read on it because he was so low; the baby was almost out and they just couldn't--the heart rate was like not find-able. So they basically told me they had to do the heart rate monitor that attaches to the head of the baby, which I know even from back when I learned about this, when I was really young, that that can be painful for a child, because you're literally using like a little tack to put the heart rate monitor in your unborn baby's, like skin of their skull.
[00:14:17] And it sounds terrible. And if it's avoidable, it should be avoided. So all this went through my head in like a nanosecond and I looked at my midwife, I'm like, "Seriously, like, do they really have to do that?" And I remember her looking at me and saying, "It's okay. We're just choosing battles here right now."
[00:14:33] Like she said, "This is the least of your worries. Like you're about to have this baby, like, let's let go of this and keep moving through it." And I said, "You know what, that's fine. A little bit of grief, like, but not the moment, really to be so choosy. Fine." So they put the heart rate monitor on and within like a few pushes that baby came out. He came out, and I was so relieved. I was so relieved. And if you look back at the video, I have the video of him actually coming out and then the following five minutes. And I will tell you what I was not expecting is that they took the baby and they really kept him away from me for five minutes.
[00:15:12]Four or five whole minutes. And they felt like the longest minutes. Yes, I was recovering from like an experience, but when you look at the video, I felt like people were not putting me first with the skin to skin with this child. The nurses in the room who were caring for the baby and whoever was there for the actual delivery were sort of taking their time, suctioning him talking to one another, and like, you could hear us in the background asking to see the baby multiple times. And it was just like we were being ignored is what it felt like. And it's a small moment that I'll never forget.
[00:15:53] It was like, you didn't have the control to be like, "Give me my baby!" you know, and finally my midwife, you can see her go over and say, "You know, the mom would really love to see her baby. She'd really love to see..." and the baby is crying and screaming. And when they pulled him out, my husband's like, "It's a boy! And I was like, G*dd*mn it.
[00:16:13] I wanted to find out what, I didn't even care, whatever. Like I have a new baby boy, and I'm not even able to like view him, and he's screaming on a table next to me. And so my midwife being amazing, went over and started rubbing him and talking to him and cooing to him and giving whatever power she had to comfort the baby in order to vicariously comfort me in a moment where we both had really no control.
[00:16:36] And finally, she had to say again, like, "Do you think that she can hold the baby now?" Like we were saying, "We don't need you to him to be cleaned. Please don't clean him, please. You know, then you're making all the postpartum decisions, like, what are you doing with my placenta?
[00:16:49] What--all the things you hadn't thought about.
[00:16:52] Lisa: Yeah. Because you had planned for it to all be different at home.
[00:16:54] Adriane: Yeah. And finally, she's able to pick him up and bring me the baby. And there is that beautiful moment where a screaming baby is put on a birthing parent's chest. And they totally chill out and he raised his whole head and like looked right at me and like, that was it. Amazing.
[00:17:16] And, you know, we got to do our first skin-to-skin breast crawl with him and he latched on and it was awesome and way too quickly, the pediatricians came into the room, right? This is a whole transfer of care, right? You're in the care of labor and delivery and all of a sudden, a pediatrician and their team comes in and you're now transferred to like the postpartum care wing, which is really about the baby and not so, so much about you, but it's sort of split up and.
[00:17:43] They wanted to take the baby for blood sugar testing and stuff to the nursery. But I really hadn't had that much time with him. I'd only been able to like try and feed him like maybe one time. It just felt really too quick. And I said only if my husband is allowed to go with him, then yes, you can take him for a moment.
[00:17:59] They were going to wheel me into postpartum, but it felt just too soon. And I remember the pediatrician asking me why I had a home birth. And she had an accent, she had come from another country and she basically said to me, "Like in my country, all we have is birth in clinics." And she basically was so confused why I would have chosen a home birth when I could have had him in the hospital. And it was this little passive, aggressive shaming that was done right after I had a baby and I felt like it was so ill-informed; so uninformed. And it was a quick reminder that I'm being cared for by people who don't have a lot of training in the data.
[00:18:41] And what safety really means. And it was a personal feeling based on like maybe how she grew up or someone who works in a, you know, huge medical industrial complex about what's safe and what's not. But I felt like it was very unfair. And, there was lots of sort of talking to me about how they needed to test the baby's sugar.
[00:19:03] And only if all of these things lined up perfectly was things going to be okay. It was very much fear-mongering and preparing me that it was on their terms now. That how and when I could see the baby and when he would leave or go home. And there was that tension from the beginning. And it was, it was unfortunate because I was just flooded with oxytocin.
[00:19:22] Right. All the adrenaline leaves when you have the baby and you're flooded with this like bonding hormone, where all you want to do is make friends with people. Like you want to say yes to everybody, but you're also in a situation where you're being passively or assertively or aggressively like disempowered by people who have sort of control over your situation. I mean, they literally put a LoJack on your baby. If I wanted to walk out, I couldn't without breaking a lot of rules or being, you know, God forbid, having my baby put into like protective custody. And I can't even imagine if I was a mother of color and all of the layered ways in which I was really in the system and couldn't get out. And that tension was there immediately from the postpartum and pediatric staff. So they brought me into the postpartum room. My husband went with the baby, baby comes back.
[00:20:10] And we're just like hanging out and his sugars were low. And immediately it's like, "If his sugars aren't up, we're going to have to feed him formula. We're gonna have to supplement." They're just running you through all the things that they're going to have to do, because, you know, he's kind of a big baby.
[00:20:24] He was born at eight pounds 12. No, that was my first was eight, 12. I think he was eight pounds, nine ounces. So he's right on the cusp of a big baby. And if you have a big baby, they have to test them specifically for sugars because they can have like glucose imbalances more quickly.
[00:20:41]And so he's right on the cusp and he's a big baby and we may have to supplement. That was like right away. And I was like, "How about I try and feed him again? Let's see if I..." you know, I had already been doing nipple stimulation all day. I know I had produced lots of milk with my first. I was hellbent on feeding that baby as much as possible.
[00:21:02] So he had another feeding or two and like they came back and--having to request that they come do the heel prick to test his sugars again, on me in my bedroom was like pulling--it was just like fighting everybody for everything. They really prefer to bring the baby into the nursery space, where they have everything and they have the people to do it.
[00:21:23]And it's outside of their protocol and what they're used to, and it feels like an inconvenience to ask for these things that you know are choices. If you take a childbirth ed class, you know you have the choice to ask for these things, but
[00:21:34] Lisa: And are so biologically appropriate, to not separate mom and baby.
[00:21:38] Adriane: So to keep him quiet, we're not wanting to like raise his cortisol within the first hours of birth. We're having great skin-to-skin, he's nursing fine. A heel prick done in my presence would just make everything better for everybody. But it's outside of what you're expected and even asking for it immediately puts you in conflict with the people who are directly responsible for your care, which is so scary.
[00:22:00] You don't want to piss off the person who's there caring for you. You need things from them. It's like a total conflict of interest. And I just, it was so upsetting to me that I had to experience these feelings in combination with just all of the desire to make everything so copacetic.
[00:22:17] You want everyone to get along. You want to say yes to everything, but you also want to like put yourself first and having to advocate for yourself feels like, in a fighting way, just felt so wrong. And my doula had to go home. My midwife went home, the baby was born at around 11:00 PM.
[00:22:32] So we're into like the next day now. Right. It's midnight. My husband has to go home to like be with my son at some point. But we did have a private room. I wasn't like rooming in with anyone. It was just me, but I was all alone. So everyone left me with this baby and I'm in one of those beds. I'm in a postpartum room on my own recovering. And I'm in one of those beds where they don't want you to get the bedsores. So it's like constantly moving around.
[00:23:00] So it feels totally unsafe to even have a baby in the bed with you because it's moving around. So you're basically forced to not be able to cozy up and sleep with your baby. That was like the first thing that, and I'm trying to feed him. And also it's almost impossible for me to go get him without standing up hours after birth, you know, without standing up and getting him out of his isolette, his little rolling crib.
[00:23:22]All of it felt intense. And every time he'd cry, I had no one in the room to pick him up and soothe him. So all I had was food. So I would just put them to the breast every time he cried and my milk had come in so fast and so much that he was just like, so unsettled, his stomach was just like, what the hell?
[00:23:42] He was already puking up milk within hours because I was just flooding him with way more milk than he needed. Also, I did not want them to have to, like, supplement him. All of it was too much milk. He had all of his meconium pooed out into like almost transitioning poo in the first night. So the entire first night after laboring all day and being so tired.
[00:24:02] Every time I would like fall asleep. I would have to change another diaper, like an explosive diaper, which is so weird for a newborn baby, right? It's not the typical. But it was just like us managing. So I was like in and out of sleep and just when like everyone would be sleeping, I'd just get him back to sleep, you know, the shifts would change and someone would come back in and they needed to do another heel prick or they need to take him for something. And it was just like, I felt like I couldn't get a break.
[00:24:31]Meanwhile, the contractions that I was having the nurses, like when you nurse your uterus contracts. It was, with the second child, the pain was so much worse. I don't remember feeling pain with the first; that was something I didn't expect that was sort of would have been nice to know about, to take like a tincture or something to help. But every time I was about to nurse, I was so frightened of all the new contractions that were going to come.
[00:24:53] So I would try and like get the nursing staff in to give me Motrin ahead of time. And it was the middle of the night. So sometimes they'd come and sometimes they wouldn't or they'd come an hour later, well after I'd fed. So the Motrin that I wanted to help relax my body before like an intense nursing session was moot, like that got passed over.
[00:25:15] And I remember just being so hungry. I was so hungry and I was like, so excited to eat. And I said, "What do you guys got for food in this place?" And they're like, "Well, breakfast, doesn't start 'til like, you know, seven." And I was like, "Is there anything at all that we can eat anywhere?" Like, "Well, we do have leftover sandwiches that we like wrap up and keep in the fridge."
[00:25:35] And I was like, "Can I have two?" Like, I don't even know. And then, and then like, "We do have some juice." And you're like seeing nutrients as they are, right? Like you're looking at food and you can understand like sugar is sugar. And to look at this like, bottle of like, I mean, we're in a health facility where people are sick and like the quality of food that was being fed. I was like, "Oh my God. And I don't care." They gave me like a little cup and they were going to pour me a cup of juice. And I would just like grab the cart. I was like, "I'll just take the whole carton. I'm not here for a cup of juice. I've just been laboring all day. I'm like, I'll take the tuna sandwich, I'll take the egg salad sandwich."
[00:26:11] I'm like, "Do you have any more?" It was so nice of them to extend those to me. I know it's outside of policy and it seems ridiculous that they're not available to everyone, because babies are born at whatever time you can just wait until seven to eat. So I'm like guzzling juice.
[00:26:30] It's like, you know, bright red and like full of chemicals and sugar. And I'm so happy about it. And just like loading myself with whatever calories I can get. The nighttime as a total sh*t show. I'm exhausted. And the next day I'm really worn down and like every time I'm actually awake the next day, I'm like trying to call someone or communicate with someone on my own that the baby had been born and called my husband and tell him what to bring me to the hospital that I really want for the next day.
[00:26:55]I'm hoping to go home that next day. So I'm like negotiating with hospital staff about when I can leave--all sorts of things are happening. So every opportunity to rest that I have when the baby is asleep, I'm busy. And then the baby wakes up. And then I went for many cycles without sleep. My husband came in to visit me the next day.
[00:27:15] And he brought my son with him to visit me. And that's like an entire entertainment session. Right? It's like, "Oh my God." Then you have to be with your crazy toddler who's jumping all over you. And like, yes, that's a special sweet moment. But I had none in me and like they're bringing in the car seat and bringing in like the bags of stuff.
[00:27:33] And he helped give me what I needed, but then he had to bring my son home. So I was so super exhausted and I was like, "I have to get home. I have to get out of here because I can't care for myself like this anymore." I was like, "Can we leave tonight?" Their hospital policy that you have to be in the hospital 24 hours.
[00:27:49] And we can't let you out at 11:00 PM at night. That would be irresponsible. I was like, "Why? Why? I'm gonna be up all night caring for myself here, or I can catch a cab 15 minutes with my car seat, home to my house and actually sleep in my bed and have someone bring me a glass of water or come bus the food in my room that no one could do."
[00:28:08] Like I couldn't, I was having to like bus my own dishes and stuff. Because when they'd come in to come take my food, I hadn't had a chance to even eat it yet. So we'd go through many cycles of feeding where it would just like pile up. And then like, it was time to clean, more crazy poopy diapers and they don't have wipes in the hospital.
[00:28:25] They have these like little gauze pads and like, it just, I was like managing it all. And I was like, this is crazy. And I was trying to get myself out of there and they're like, "Well..." you know, I'm like talking to the midwives. I'm really trying to like lobby and plead my case for why I want to leave.
[00:28:42] And they're like, "We can let you out tonight. You're, you're cleared. Everything's fine with you, but we can't let your baby out," which is like, drives me crazy. It's like more, it's more passive aggressive sort of like, reminding me who's in control. And the midwife who came in to check on me the next day totally got it. And they were going to lobby the case, but they don't have really any control over the pediatric unit, which would not let the baby go because it just wasn't convenient for them to do the exit paperwork.
[00:29:09] I mean, I don't want to say that people are lazy at all. It probably, maybe it was impossible for them to let me go at that time. Or it would have been really hard. They would have had to like have the staff on hand to like jump through the hoops to do it. Like, I really empathize with the staff actually working there.
[00:29:22] I really do. And I don't think it would have been easy, but at the same time, the person who will suffer from that would have been me. Like everyone's suffering. And if someone could have helped do the exit paperwork like that evening, I could have actually gone home within the 24-hour mark. All the sugars were back up to normal and they want the baby to have all of their hearing tests and stuff.
[00:29:45] But they don't just do those at any time. You have to wait until they're going to do them. And I'm like, "We can do the hearing test at the pediatricians, when we're out." But they really want to do the hearing test. It's like, I know you really want to do it and I don't really need you to do it, but they're gonna hold your baby. Like they have control over that kind of stuff. So what they really wanted is to check you out the next day and have the morning to be able to go through the process and have the people walking through the paperwork and do the hearing test because they're supposed to, and I had to just wait.
[00:30:15] So I had to realize that I had another night there by myself. And it was another night of madness. It was like more poopy diapers. More soothing. I mean, I had that kid in the carrier in the first day, because like I had to go to the bathroom. And he was fussing and the alternative one would have been, if I had been relaxed enough, to send him to the nursery where people could watch him while he slept so that I could get some rest, but I didn't trust anybody at that point.
[00:30:42] I really didn't. The relationship was two tense and I wasn't about to hand them over to someone who I felt like was going to forget that he wasn't supposed to be supplemented or... I didn't know. It could have been totally perfect. And I would have gotten like a dreamy chunk of sleep.
[00:30:56]And maybe I really needed that, but I was just trying to wait till I got home. That was my mission. And so I spend the night and then the next morning I'm like broken down. I have the kid in a wrap. I tied a little short wrap and a little slipknot and I have him on my front.
[00:31:13] And I sat and I basically was waiting outside of my room to get attention from people because otherwise, hours and hours and hours go by and you're just sort of ignored until you're in the list of people they want to check out. So I felt like if I asked consistently and reminded people that I was ready to go, they would come deal with me a little bit sooner.
[00:31:32] And finally, at some point in the late morning, around 11, I got checked out. My husband came, we had the car seat. And it was time to go. And I just felt like I really had to fight for myself during this time that should be about like breast and bonding. And I just didn't have the support that I needed.
[00:31:48]If I had a support person, a doula, anybody in the hospital with me who I trusted, who could swap holding the baby with me and could help give me the sleep I needed, I think I would have felt less urgent. I would have fought less with the staff and everything would have been improved, but it was Christmas.
[00:32:08] You know, so what are you going to do? It's just, it's a tricky time. And sometimes you don't have it. And, finally when we got home, like we took a cab home and it was freezing, freezing. I came out of the hospital and we were like trying to put the baby in, putting the car seat in and some lady's like yelling at me on the street because my son, my toddler didn't put a jacket on. And I was just like, I looked at her. I was like, "I just had a f*cking baby. He doesn't want to put the jacket on and I'm not going to force him." Like, how many conversations have you had like that? And like in the moment I was like, "Oh my God." And she was like asking him why he wasn't wearing a jacket.
[00:32:49] And if you talk to him, he had so much anxiety though. He would like have a tantrum. I was like...oh, it's also precarious. I was like, "Can we just get home?" So we got in the car, we go home and the house is a disaster. Unlike my first birth, where I had just people put all of our laundry in the machine and washed it, fed us food, cleaned up and tidied.
[00:33:11] And they were out of there like birth fairies in like a couple hours. Christmas had happened. No one had cleaned up. There was wrapping paper everywhere, all of the sheets and towels that we had used to clean up messes and meconium, there was like a birth pool that was still filled up.
[00:33:24] 'Cause we all left in a hurry. There was no one to tidy. I was like, "Oh my God, this is crazy." And we got home and we had my son to manage and no childcare, I think for like one extra day. Immediately, my husband and I were like, we don't even have sheets to sleep on right now.
[00:33:40] And we looked at each other. He couldn't do it all. He was trying to like feed the kid, feed me. I was having the baby. He basically, he was like, "You're going to have to do the laundry." I was like, I'm going to have to do the laundry right now. I just got home. I'm bleeding. I was going to have to like, carry all this stuff downstairs and like go to the laundry room and do this.
[00:33:57] And I was just like, "This is insane. I haven't slept." I was breaking down and I called my midwife. She's like, "You cannot do the laundry. I don't care if you sleep on a towel. You can't right now. She's like, "You have to get four hours of sleep." And it just seemed so impossible. So impossible. Four hours? When you have a baby who needs to eat every two hours. How are you going to get four hours of sleep? The math didn't add up. "Give the baby to Greg. I know he's tired, too. I know he's has Damian, but he has to take them both and just figure it out. Even if the baby's screaming for a while. Pump a bottle if you can, but you just need to get some sleep." And I said, "Okay." And I like did as she told, and then like quickly, within a day, I had like called someone who was a postpartum doula and like begged them for a shift of like two hours, whatever they had. She was like, "I can come over for like two and a half hours."
[00:34:45] I was like, "Please, yes." We got a house cleaner to come who could like clean the house up, which was, that was major. Cause that took care of so much that my husband didn't have to do. And then like childcare came back the next day and like very quickly, all the services came in and we were very supported and it was like back to normal.
[00:35:03] Like everything fell into place, but it was a really harrowing, like unsupported four days there. And my God, it was crazy. I am such a believer in postpartum support. Like you just don't want to put yourself in that situation. Like we survived it. I learned so much from it. I'm a much better advocate for folks and much more informed support person for anyone that I'm working with.
[00:35:29] And, I appreciate that I have that experience. I feel like really, I was meant to have it and it's a reminder that like planning for coverage, even when you don't think you're going to need it, planning for the coverage is so helpful. Just one person, all it took was finding one extra person who maybe I didn't have a personal relationship with. It wasn't like a friend who was a postpartum doula, right. Planning to have someone who can come meet you in the hospital, if that's what it takes. And it just felt like, oh, I wasn't going to need it. Or the chances were so slim and it would've made such a world of difference in terms of like a very traumatic 72 hours and like a well-supported one. So luckily the baby was a dream. His name is Loren. He was very healthy. Like all of that stuff really worked out. And I feel so, so grateful for choosing an amazing home birth team. Right? It's so easy to look at home birth transfer and say would you regret it?
[00:36:30] Do you regret that you did that and that you didn't plan it? Absolutely not. Because I had a team who was so well informed and really on it. And with me all day to understand what my body was going through, that allowed me to labor naturally up until the very end, when it became questionable and still my midwife said, "You know what? I really believe that if we had had an extra half an hour, I could have called another midwife over, we could have done some fundal pressure where we really like helped push the baby from the outside into the correct position. And that he have been fine. And we would have had him at home and you wouldn't have had to go through all that." And she's maybe right, but that's not why you hire an amazing midwife. You hire them to make the really tough calls in the moment. And, and she was there really with us every step of the way. And we had, what I believe is, you know, a beautiful vaginal birth, which was my goal because we were supported to have that.
[00:37:26] And we were allowed to get to the end. If we had entered the hospital system from the beginning, we would have been given an arbitrary timeline of like, okay, within this many hours, you need to be here. And if the labor is not progressing normally, then we have to give you all these interventions.
[00:37:41] And I did not have a labor that progressed normally at all. It took a lot of work. I needed to like literally march with a personal trainer all over the neighborhood to get that going. And I needed like, you know, homeopathics and nipple stimulation and stuff that like would not just be handed to you or suggested as alternative ways of getting labor going and so grateful for that.
[00:38:01] And there was a woman next to me in the hospital who also was a home birth transfer and she had a cesarean birth and she wheeled herself into my room the next day with her little stand and like her fluids. Hobbled in. And she's like, "Hey," she was like, "You came in last night, right? The homebirth transfer?" I said, "Yeah." She said, "I heard you come in." She said, all the nurses on the floor, she said I was listening and they said, "Oh-p, home birth transfer. Here she comes. C-section!" Right. It was like presumed. It was presumed that a naive, risky, stupid woman had chosen a stupid path for herself having a home birth.
[00:38:42] And there they were again, having to like save that person from their stupid decision. And now they're in a surgical, complicated position. It was like, that was the feeling about my entrance into that space. And this woman said, "I was so proud and so happy to find out that that's not the way it went."
[00:39:02] It's just a reminder, you know, just because you end up in a situation like that doesn't mean that the choices that led up to that were ill-informed or poor. And that, I think that sometimes is the feeling that can be the feeling. And that is the scary part of home birth transfer, right? Is that you're going to be judged by people who may not have really any understanding of what that process looks like.
[00:39:26]But I personally feel very grateful for my team and so happy that I made that choice. And if anyone is wondering, it's not necessarily about the location where you have the baby and the place where you have the baby, it's about the team that you choose and how they support you to have the birth outcomes that you want.
[00:39:42] So it didn't end up at home, but it did end up, you know, nonsurgical. Which it very well could have if I was not given that timeline and, and probably an easier recovery for that, too.
[00:39:55] Lisa: Yeah. As you're sharing all of this, I'm reminded, you know, it seems to me from everything I hear from local home birth midwives, as well as the couple of freestanding birth centers we have that they're constantly trying to form strategic partnerships, transfer relationships that are better. That are going to not treat us like we've done something wrong or we've done something stupid if we do have to transfer to a hospital. I so hope that over time, we'll see an improvement in that dynamic because people should not feel shamed if they do need to transfer to a hospital from a home birth. And it happens far too frequently. And I'm really sorry that that dynamic happened for you.
[00:40:39] Adriane: I wonder to what extent, like, I invite that a little bit though. Because maybe there's something going on or some dynamic where, I did feel that, but I was also very sensitive to it immediately. I could feel just a little bit of the tension there and I agree with you a partnership. Well, I mean, we're all on the same team, right? We're all there to support safe and healthy, happy, joyous birth. And I really just think it comes down to education and resources. And I think that, you know, when working in a hospital or a birth center, this is your job.
[00:41:13] There's a lot going on. It's not about the person's joyous, happy experience. It's paperwork, it's safety, it's liability. It's all sorts of things going on. And I think it's just so problematic on so many levels that this is what it's become, like it's not a personal issue. And if we had more understanding of birth alternatives in the first place, we would support more out of hospital birth.
[00:41:35] Right? It's not really the right place for birth for a lot of folks. Right. Typically if there's like, you know, like racism going on and just resources in general, like having a dedicated team that who knows you and trusts you and is there to support you in your birth location of choice, like that's empowered. And I wish there was more funding for it. I wish insurances covered it. You know, all the things.
[00:41:57] Lisa: Alright, are there any other things that you would like to share as you reflect on both of your pregnancies and, you know, IVF, fertility journeys, and labors and parenthood.
[00:42:14] Adriane: Oh, I mean, you never really know what you're going to get, right? It's what everyone says. You can't plan for the child you're going to have, you can't plan exactly how your birth is going to go. Just being open to learning and really informing yourself, I feel like that's the key. Learn as much as you can always about everything.
[00:42:35]I know that there is a little bit of stigma, like when you're over- informed before you go into a process, like, and I hear that, I definitely hear that. And I think that the more curious you are about something and the deeper you go into it, the more responsible and empowered you are for the choices that you make, and it starts with your birth team and it continues with your postpartum team.
[00:43:01] And parenting is its own crazy whirlwind. You know, I'm still learning and I'm sure that I'll feel really differently about that. You know, I've got two kids who are totally different than each other, and, for me, that was very healing because I'm the same parent and my kids are very different.
[00:43:16] So it very quickly makes you realize how little, not how unimportant you are, but what little effect you have on their temperament. So that was a healing experience for me, was to have a second kid who in a lot of ways was much easier than my first. But it's a journey and the more open-minded and curious you can be about it the better, and definitely take your birth classes and get your postpartum support. That's a must. Like, even if you think you know it all, you don't. And be the person who does know it all by taking that class.
[00:43:51] And it's hard in our culture, you know, we're so career-oriented and driven and independent, especially in New York City we're used to doing everything for ourselves. And it's really a hard transition to go to a place where you're asking for so much help and guidance from folks on something that you feel like you should know how to do. And it's normal. So, there are people who are out there for you, who are there to help you and not take advantage of you or make a buck. They're really there to support you and make parenthood a joyful time. So find your community.
[00:44:23] Lisa: Yes. Great. You said the word " curious" a couple of times, and I've been pondering that word some lately. I can't even remember where I read it or heard it, but not long ago I heard someone say curiosity is a really beautiful space to be in. I think that applies to so many things in life, including pregnancy and labor and birth and children and parenting. And so I love that you brought that up and that you said it even more than once. That's, that's a beautiful place to be.
[00:44:55]Oh, this has been so great. Thank you so much. You're such a great storyteller. I love all the details you share and the way that you share it.
[00:45:02] And so I want to give you Adriane one last shout out as you're bringing up the importance for postpartum support. So, so important. Please check out the work that Adriane does.
[00:45:13] I will link to her information on the show notes and so check her out and the work that she's doing and the educational videos on her Instagram and all that good stuff, cause there's a lot to learn from her so that you can feel well-equipped for this journey into parenthood. Thank you so much, Adriane.
[00:45:30] Adriane: Thank you so much, Lisa. I love seeing your face, love being here with you, and love the work that you do.
[00:45:36] Lisa: Thanks so much. Take care.
[00:45:37] Bye bye.