Today, Stephanie, who’s an attorney for an organization called Protect Democracy, shares the story of her daughter Kimathi’s birth, which was an induction that Stephanie was able to move through without any pain meds and with the support of a doula. She shares how she chose a doula who was Latina as she wanted someone who could understand her background and experience as a Puerto Rican woman and help her most effectively advocate for herself as needed. She also describes some of the creative ways she found much-needed support through social media, especially after birth, and will also touch on the challenges and changes in the nature of her relationship with Kimathi’s dad toward co-parenting early on in their daughter’s life and how much more support she needed as a result.
Episode Topics:
YouTube video of their baby shower incorporating both of their cultures
Diagnosed with hypothyroid in pregnancy
Seeking out a woman of color as her doula
Her doula recommends birth class
Water breaks but no contractions start
Stephanie buys lots of time before induction (they end up waiting to induce for 17 hrs)
Loving the birth ball and toilet
Vocalizing like a cave woman in labor
How remembering she's not doing this alone, that baby is an active participant in the process, was helpful
She realizes baby is crowning while laboring on toilet and the hospital staff make her wait to push
They're surprised when they discover baby is crowning
Stephanie pushes out Kimathi in only 1 push
Doula makes sure placenta is intact
Student does stitches for her 2nd degree tear
Fears about her immediate postpartum wellbeing
How birth was transformative
Pain sitting in the days after birth
Early breastfeeding challenges and how hospital didn't provide helpful support
How doula Heidy provided helpful support both regarding the stitches pain and breastfeeding, diagnosis with lip & tongue tie
Baby Blues for the first 2 weeks
The need for support in postpartum, finding support in social media/Instagram
Pumping with ample supply
Working from home after 4 months’ maternity leave facilitated extended breastfeeding
How Stephanie’s legal work protecting and promoting democracy can impact maternal healthcare, how she might pursue becoming a lactation consultant at some point
The things Stephanie found useful for postpartum in host Lisa’s Amazon list of recommend products*
Stephanie’s reflections on relationship challenges and moving toward co-parenting
Tips on trusting yourself and embracing the unknown in the journey into parenthood
Resources:
FridaMom “Fridet” (Peri Bottle)* (spray this on yourself whenever you urinate in postpartum -- reduces stinging and is needed instead of toilet paper at first!)
*Disclosure: Links on this page to products are affiliate links; I will receive a small commission on any products you purchase at no additional cost to you.
Transcript:
Lisa: (00:00) You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, Episode 24.
Stephanie: (00:03) It was the first time in my life where I was completely confident and in tune and trusting of my body in ways that I cannot explain. We live in a world where women are often told not to do those things, to not trust themselves, to not trust their bodies, not just in giving birth but in many of our experiences that have to do with ourselves. But this experience, you know, really was transformative and powerful, not just because I was becoming her mom, but I really had to trust my body to do what it had to do to birth this child. And I was just grateful that I had that experience, and the training that you and Heidi provided was really instrumental to that.
Lisa: (00:52) Hey, there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show. I'm your host, Lisa Greaves Taylor, founder of Birth Matters NYC Childbirth Education and Labor Support. This show is here to lessen your overwhelm on the journey into parenthood by equipping and encouraging you with current best evidence info and soulful interviews with parents and birth pros. Please keep in mind the information on this show is not intended as medical advice or to diagnose or treat any medical conditions. If you enjoy this show, we'd be incredibly grateful if you'd share it with a friend. You can follow and share our posts on social media @birthmattersnyc or simply tell them to search for Birth Matters wherever they listen to podcasts.
Lisa: (01:35) Today, Stephanie, who’s an attorney for an organization called Protect Democracy, shares the story of her daughter Kimathi’s birth, which was an induced labor that Stephanie was able to move through without any pain meds and with the support of a doula. She shares how she chose a doula who was Latina as she wanted someone who could understand her background and experience as a Puerto Rican woman and help her most effectively advocate for herself as needed. She also describes some of the creative ways she found much-needed support through social media, especially after birth, and will also touch on the challenges and changes in the nature of her relationship with Kimathi’s dad toward co-parenting early on in their daughter’s life and how much more support she needed as a result.
Lisa: (02:19) Today's episode is brought to you by the Birth Matters Complete Online Course. If you can't squeeze in an in-person group birth class series, or if you didn't feel like the one you took was comprehensive enough, or if you don't even have a quality class available in your area, I have the perfect solution for you. Birth Matters Complete Course is an online recorded version of my in-person full series. It covers not only prep for an amazing birth with self-advocacy tips, best current evidence and tips for partners, but also holistic postpartum wellness, breastfeeding and newborn care. And to top it off, you get lifetime access so that you can use it as a refresher later in this or a future pregnancies. How awesome is that? For New York City locals, you have an option to add to the course an in-person one evening hands-on measures workshop, which is a really ideal option for the more tactile parts of the course. Check it out at birthmattersonline.com.
Lisa: (03:16) Now let's get started with today's birth story.
Lisa: (03:19) Welcome to the Birth Matters Podcast. Today I have Stephanie with me. Welcome, Stephanie.
Stephanie: (03:25) Hi. Thank you Lisa. Thanks for having me.
Lisa: (03:27) So glad you're here. Why don't you share, if you'd like to share what you do for a living as well as where you are in your parenting journey.
Stephanie: (03:34) Yes, I am actually a civil and human rights attorney at an organization called Protect Democracy, and where I am in my parenting journey? My daughter Kimathi Soul is 14 months old. She is my only daughter and I'm just really blessed to have her in my life.
Lisa: (03:51) And I just loved your—you had a couple of YouTube videos. I don't even know if they're still up on YouTube, but your baby shower was the coolest thing. It was so celebratory, with dancing and singing and it was just so, so cool.
Stephanie: (04:05) Yeah. Thank you for saying that. My parents, they planned it. A lot of it was a surprise and they really wanted to bring in everything of who Kimathi is. We're Puerto Rican and her dad's black, and so we wanted to bring in all of those elements and, you know, have a space for the family to really, you know, bask in who we are and who she is. And it was really amazing.
Lisa: (04:26) Oh, I was like, I wish I could have been there. That is the coolest shower. I just loved bringing in both cultures and all of that. Really, really, really cool.
Stephanie: (04:35) Yeah.
Lisa (04:36) And thanks for sharing that with me. And if you're okay with my linking those things in the show notes, I would love to share it because it's just—the joy in it is amazing, and it might give other people ideas on how to incorporate their own cultures into their baby showers.
Stephanie: (04:49) Absolutely. And I looked at dozens of videos before having my own. So I totally understand the value in sharing it, too.
Lisa: (04:58) Wonderful. So why don't you just jump right into wherever you'd like to start, whether that's in pregnancy or your birth story, whatever.
Stephanie: (05:06) Awesome. Well, I had a pretty great pregnancy in the sense that, you know, the first three months I had pretty bad nausea, but you know, I think pretty normal in the pregnancy. Second trimester, I think pretty early on, the doctors told me that I had hyperthyroid, which—my understanding is it's when your thyroid already thinks it's producing enough of certain hormones and it's not. And so I had to start taking supplements, to ensure that I had the right hormone levels, and they would monitor the baby. So I would go to see my doctor every two weeks. And then in between I would go to the hospital to get an ultrasound just to ensure that the baby was growing correctly, as sometimes hyperthyroid babies can kind of go, you know, much smaller or not be on the right track. But everything was fine. She was great.
Stephanie: (05:59) Third trimester rolled around pretty quickly and it was in that trimester where I, you know, had the good fortune of taking your class, and I was actually recommended to your class by my amazing doula, Heidi Ramirez, and also met with her during that time I took your class. And I am very certain that I would not have had the birth experience that I had, had it not been for those two things. So let me back up a little bit and talk a little bit about myself in the broader context of this pregnancy, which is: I am one of two sisters. I'm 31, my sister is almost 30, and we're the oldest cousins of, like, a generation of cousins in the sense that there—it's been a long time since we've had babies in our family. And so there wasn't, you know, people that I could very easily talk to around birthing because it was my mom's generation who was the closest one.
Stephanie: (06:56) And they've been out of that for a while. And so when I say that I really needed support in terms of just, like, learning everything that you could think about with birthing, I'm just glad that I had the resources and the capacity to work with you and with Heidi to do that. And so I knew pretty early on in my pregnancy that my goal, my aspiration would be to have a birth that was non-medicated, have a, you know, vaginal birth if I could. And I knew that aspirationally, I just didn't know all that it entailed to get there. But I knew that it entailed work in the sense that you—you're not going to go run a marathon and not train for it, and you're not going to, like, go to law school and then not, like, study and take the bar and boom, you're a lawyer. Doesn't work like that.
Stephanie: (07:41) And I, and I knew, I had the sense that, like, birthing was going to be like that, especially the kind of birth that I wanted, given the society that we live in, which just doesn't foster and doesn't really help women and moms and people who want to birth that way birth that way. And so, yeah. So I share all that to say I was led to you and Heidi and it was really transformative. I, you know, to go into the actual birthing story and then maybe talk a little about what I learned from your class kind of impacted that birthing...
Lisa: (08:12) Can I just ask, how did you hear about doulas and how did you find Heidi?
Stephanie: (08:17) Great question. So I heard about doulas—so I'm a little bit of a nerd, in the sense that every time I'm about to tackle something, you know, I'm going to read up a lot. So when I figured out that I was pregnant, I was like, "Oh crap, I know nothing about being pregnant." I probably read—as many moms do—every single book out there, every blog, every video, spent countless hours on podcasts, and quickly realized, not just the, you know, the benefits of having a doula to learn, but the actual benefits of having a doula to have a birthing experience that was actually safer, healthier, and for a lot of women, less, just less traumatic. And I wanted to, to be able to experience that. And so I knew early on that I wanted a doula. And I think there was a part of me too that, you know, I think we all want our moms there, and our grandmas, and I think on the one hand I did want that, but I also didn't want my mom in the room in case something went wrong. And for her to just be in that moment. So I wanted someone that was, you know, my support, but also someone that wasn't my mom, in the sense that if something started to go a little bit, you know, haywire, you know, I'd have someone that could stay calm and focused. And so the way that I found it was I actually just went on doulamatch.com, which was recommended by a number of sources that I was looking into. And I knew that I wanted a doula that was a woman of color. I'm Puerto Rican and, you know, my daughter's father is black. And so I wanted a doula that would understand, you know, our experiences, but also as a mom of color, the experiences of moms of color in kind of the medical field. I knew that I wanted to have a birth in a hospital even though I wanted it to be, you know, natural and all that. Natural in the sense of, like, unmedicated and vaginal. So I wanted—
Lisa: (10:02) Did you know, going into it, did you know about the worse outcomes for women of color? Is that—was that one of your reasons for wanting a doula like that?
Stephanie: (10:11) Absolutely. So, even before I got pregnant—you know, a lot of my work is around racial justice. And within the realm of racial justice, there's a lot of work on mother mortality, particularly of woman of color, and even more specifically of black women. So I was very acutely aware of mother mortality rates, what happens to moms of color, and not just themselves, but their babies in these moments. And so I wanted someone that not would just only understand my fears—which, honestly, one of my biggest fears was dying postpartum. That was my biggest fear—but also just advocating in a way that she understood things that we might be experiencing. So I was looking for a woman of color doula. I was looking for a doula who had done a number of, you know, births before. And someone that, you know, we matched well with in the sense of like, we clicked, you know. And so I called three doulas, and Heidi, you know, was by far the person that I felt a very deep connection with.
Lisa: (11:09) And I should mention that Heidi just happens to be on my short list of recommended doulas, and a number of my students have adored her. So I'll be sure to link her in the show notes.
Stephanie: (11:19) That would be awesome. So I think I was about to start sharing the birth story.
Lisa: (11:24) Yeah, go right ahead.
Stephanie: (11:27) Which I am very excited to share. I just, I should say that before giving birth, and this is actually something you recommended, is just to really listen to a lot of positive birthing stories. And I did that. I did that, you know, even before I knew that it was a thing to actually do. So I'm very excited to share my story and I actually share it as much as I can to moms and friends who are pregnant, and want to hear, you know, positive birth stories. So excited to share it.
Stephanie: (11:51) So Kimathi's due date was October 13th and my water broke naturally on October 12th. It was around 8:00 AM. I woke up from sleeping and I noticed that my panties were wet. And I knew, I knew—it was like, it was dribbling. It wasn't, like, a flood or anything, but I just knew it was that my water had broke. And so, because my due date was the next day, I actually had a doctor's appointment that day at noon. And so I just ended up going to the doctors normally. By that time I still hadn't had any contractions. I was just having Braxton Hicks, but nothing out of what I was already feeling for a couple of weeks. And I told the doctor when I started, I was like, "I think my water broke." And she was like, "Oh my goodness, let's check you." So the doctor checked me and the water had, in fact, my water had broken. I was one centimeter dilated and 50% effaced at the time. She described that my cervix was very soft. But you know, again, I wasn't having any contractions, just Braxton Hicks. And so my doctor, who I was really having a great experience with, at the time I was a little shocked, she immediately went into, "Well, let's check you in by 3:00 so we can start an induction." And, I was really like, at first I was a little bit disappointed in her, I'm not gonna lie, because I was like, "What?! How would she go straight to that?" But because I was, you know, confident in everything that I learned in your class and read, and with Heidi, you know, I pushed back on her and I was like, "Look, I'm really trying for this to start just on its own. Like, let my body do its thing. It's pretty early on still. I feel good." She just checked me, she was like, "Your water, you know, and your uterus looks fine, like, you're fine." So I was like, "Okay, so let's just wait and see if this, like, kicks in naturally." So she was like, "Okay, I'm going to call you around three or four and let and see if anything has started by then." And I was like, "No problem."
Stephanie: (13:48) So I went home, I did a number of things. I meditated, I walked, I took a nap, I took a shower, and I was, I was bouncing on the, on the big bouncy ball—which I had actually had most of my pregnancy, I just started using it. So it was, like, a natural thing for me to do. But nothing. I still hadn't had any contractions, nothing, not even a peep. And so the doctor indeed called me. It was around 4, and she asked me, she's like, "So have you started with a little bit of pain?" And I remember I said, "Actually, yeah I have." And she was like, "Okay, great. So just wait." And I knew that's what she was going to say. So I did, like, a little bit of a white lie, because I wanted to buy a little more time and I didn't just want to feel the pressure of the doctors telling me "Go, go, go," you know. So she was like, "I'll call you around 8:00." And I was like, "Great." So again, I just kept doing the things that I was already doing. I actually walked, I think it was, like, a mile and a half, I went, like, far, and came back. Still nothing. Doctor calls me at eight and she was like, "How are you doing?" And I'm like, "I'm pretty much the same" from what I had told her at four, which was, like, very mild. I was just starting. But at this point, I knew it was, like, 12 hours later, I was like, I'm not sure if this is ever going to start. And I had talked to Heidi and I was like, "What do you think?" And she's like, "You might want to start considering heading to the hospital, and then see what happens in that transition while you're there and whatnot."
Stephanie: (15:18) So it was around eight o'clock that I decided to take a shower, prepare the luggage, all the final stuff to, like, take with me and I headed to the hospital at 9 PM. So I get to the hospital. I had already done all the paperwork, so really it was just, like, going straight into triage. And, when I got into triage, they told me that I was 60 to 70% effaced, still one centimeter. So the nurses with the doctors', you know, help, basically recommended to start Pitocin right away. And I tried, you know, I tried all my best advocacy efforts and it won, and I was like, "Let's just wait." And I said, "Can we just try until 1:00 AM? If at 1:00 AM it doesn't happen, then let's just start Pitocin and...
Lisa (16:02) I love your strategy. In almost all—any, like, intervention suggestions, to buy time.
Stephanie: (16:09) No. Yeah. And it was something that I learned from your class, really. It was like, "Be confident in buying time." Like, if an emergency is happening, you'll hear that from the doctor. But keep buying time, and if it keeps working, then keep doing it. And so that's what I did, and I felt confident doing it, too, because I felt okay. Like, I was fine, baby was fine. And so 1:00 AM came around, still nothing had started happening, not a peep of contractions. At this point, my parents had flown in. They had arrived at the hospital. So I got a chance to see them. Heidi, my doula, arrived as well and I was like, "Okay, I think it's probably just time we start the Pitocin." And I think at that point I was, I was a little discouraged because I was nervous that I—from what I had learned—that contractions with Pitocin are pretty severe. They can be a lot, you know, more—stronger in a shorter amount of time. And I was like, "My goodness, I'm about to bear this." Because I knew, I was like, if I could help it, to the extent that I could think of, without knowing what the process was, I didn't want to take any pain medication. And so I think that's what was a little bit nerve-wracking to me. And also just any, I don't know, the residual potential effects of all of that. But I knew going in—and I meditated and I prayed going in—that, you know, there's only so much I can control, and I was going to like, just allow the process to reveal itself. So I welcomed it, and started the Pitocin process. So we started it at one in the morning.
Lisa (17:37) And how many hours was this after your water broke?
Stephanie: (17:41) So my water broke at eight in the morning, and this was one in the morning the next day. So whatever the math of that is.
Lisa (17:49) 15 no, 17. Yeah, 17, I think, hours.
Stephanie: (17:55) You know they say lawyers are bad at math. So it started, and at first I, you know, I was bouncing on the ball, I had the labor ball and I was, like, kinda hovering over the bed, bouncing on it. They did have the monitors on me because they started the Pitocin. They put a Hep lock in me, but it wasn't connected to anything. And I started, you know, bouncing on it, and clearly—it was very clear that, like, the monitor would come off at certain points. But because I had shared with the nurses and I'd brought in, like, a preferential, you know, birthing plan, they were very kind and helpful and respected and really helped me, you know, through that process at the beginning to, like, figure out how I could do all of the things that I wanted to do. And one of them was bouncing on this ball. And so I would say that the first hour I really didn't feel too much pain. It was just, like, what I would describe as just, like, regular menstrual cramps. The contractions really didn't start kicking in, I would say, until about two hours later, and they—and it was because they had to, like, keep kicking up a little bit the Pitocin. So it really started about two in the morning, and at this point, you know, my doula, Heidi is in, like, full gear, she's behind me. She's doing pressure points massaging, and I'm birthing on the ball. And I remember that at one point, once the contractions started getting heavier, one of the nurses was like, "Oh you should, you know, lay on your back and see—and see that."
Stephanie: (19:17) And so, so I go on the bed because they actually had to, like, take my pressure, too. So they were doing a few things at once at that point, and I was like, "Okay, sure." So I laid on my back, and it was the most excruciating pain at that point. And I told her, I was like, "I'm only going through this one contraction on this bed. Not again." So she took, she took the information that she needed, put me back and I got back on the birthing ball. And so what I did was from the time that I started labor, until the time that I ended, which was around—the baby was born at 9:12 AM, so for about seven hours, the majority I labored on the birthing ball. And then a significant number of that time I was actually on the toilet, and it was very painful on the toilet. As in, like, more painful than the birthing ball. But I knew that it was working. Like, I was opening up. I could tell that my body was, like, laboring differently from sitting there. And the nurses, you know, those 20 to 30 minutes at a time that I was on the toilet, I wasn't on a monitor. And they were fine with it.
Lisa (20:18) I was just about to ask that.
Stephanie: (20:20) Yeah. Yeah. I mean they did come in the first few times to check to see what was going on, and when they realized that I was just birthing on the toilet, they were fine. And I should say that my daughter's father, Kaloma, at the time was also, like, he would sit in front of me on the toilet while I was, like, on the—he was on the birthing ball. I'm sitting on the toilet and we're, like, going through, like, the motions together every time I'm, like, doing the contraction. I think one of the things that was so interesting to me is that I always wondered the sounds that I would make, right, when I was actually laboring, or what I would be thinking. And I think one of the things that prepares you—like I was kind of describing in terms of, like, you're preparing for a marathon or you're preparing for something else—was learning to do, like, a mantra, and repeat that mantra over and over again in my head as I was doing the contraction. And mine was, "I can do this." I just kept saying it over and over again, like, "I can do this, I can do this." So that was what was going on in my head, and it was very rhythmic. But the sound that I was making outside was, like, a very deep, like, sound. And I remember you described this, I think, in your own birthing experience. I think you might've said, "I sounded like a cave woman," and that is literally, it was, that was my experience. Like, I was like, "Huuhhhhh," like, very deep, very low, like, a voice that I don't usually use. And I just kept doing this over and over and over again, literally, like, the whole entire time that I was having contractions. I think more broadly, the thing in my head was I was thinking of "pain with a purpose" and that every contraction was going to get me closer to my baby. And then the last thing that I remember thinking, you know, over and over again, was something that I actually learned in prenatal yoga, it was just a saying and it was the idea that like, "it's not just you birthing, it's also your baby trying to be born, and they're also trying to do their best." And to me it was like, you know, it was such a transformative thing to say for me. So all of those things just kept me really grounded while I was going through these, like, very painful surges. I know everyone describes their experience very differently. You know, some people call them, you know, "surges" or whatnot. And for some people it wasn't painful. For me it was painful, but I could manage it because of the training that I had had going into it.
Stephanie: (22:35) So contractions started getting, you know, further along. It's around 7:30 in the morning and the doctor checks me. I was about seven centimeters at this point. I was 100% effaced, and I was at zero station. And when the doctor checked me and she realized—and I realized that—you could see it, that the baby had pooped. There was a little bit of meconium, and she said that she wasn't worried at all because the baby's heart rate was fine. It was very little. And that I was pretty close and she could see me birthing in, like, two-and-a-half, three hours. So nothing to worry about. However, I got a little bit worried in the sense that I was—I knew what could come of it if something went wrong and the baby, you know, took this into her body, inhaled it or, you know, something. And I think my, like, mommy instinct, like, kicked in to, like, a thousand. And I looked at my doula and I was like, "What do I need to do to, like"—and it wasn't a feeling of, like, I need to get her out. It was a feeling of, like, I want to get her safely out—like, "What do I need to do?" And she was like, "You're just going to have to go sit on the toilet."
Stephanie: (23:37) And I was like, "All right, that's what I'm going to do." So I went to the toilet. I probably did a 30 minute session, came back out for a little while, birthed on the labor ball and then went back in for another 30 minute session. And I can tell you that I literally felt when Kimathi crowned. Like, I—on the toilet, I—the feeling was—there was no mistake. I, like, I gasped, because I thought she was gonna, like, fall out or something. And so at that point I'm walking out and I go to the bed. The nurses are like, you know, doing their thing, very chill. This is only about an hour-and-a-half after the doctor had come in originally. And they were like, "How are you feeling?" And I'm like, "I'm ready to push." Like, I was, like, very, you know, calm. I'm looking at them, like, it's kinda like, "I'm ready."
Stephanie: (24:22) And they were like, "Oh, okay, okay. You know, the doctor only checked you not too long ago, so why don't you get to have a seat on the bed?" So they put up the squat bar for me. I didn't know what I would want, and I didn't realize it was going to go by so quickly. So they did that first. And so I went on the bed, I, you know, had the squat bar, and at this point, you know, my noises started becoming literal screams a little bit. Like—not like screams but, like—yelling a little differently because it was, I mean, I was on another—an out-of-body experience at this point. And I'm telling them, "Look, I need to push." And so the doctor's walking in at this moment and they're like, "Oh." She's like, "How are you doing?" I'm like, "I need to push." Like, I, you know, I'm just, like, repeating it. As she's putting on one glove, the nurse is, like, "Let's just check you" and she unveils me. And you literally hear on the video recording—we had a video recording—they go, "Oh my goodness!" like, literally out loud. "The baby's coming, like, right now." And the doctor—you see in the video, I don't remember this, I'm just like, you know, seeing it from the video—but she was like, "Oh wow!" And she, like, couldn't put her whole garment on. She got into, like, thankfully she got into full work mode. She put on the other glove immediately and she was like, "All right, push! Bear down!" And so...bear down, one push, Kimathi's head comes out. Second push, her whole body was out. And it was, it was still one of these experiences where I was, like, in my head, a little bit, I was, like, "That was it?!? Like, it was, like, two pushes?"
Lisa: (25:51) That's fast for a first time!
Stephanie: (25:54) It was pretty fast.
Lisa (25:55) So was your induction, but I really think, you know, it sounds like you spent so much time on the ball and on the toilet, and those things absolutely make a difference in the length of a labor.
Stephanie: (26:04) One hundred percent. You know, if I ever go through this process again, I would totally, definitely use those two techniques again. And really the toilet, even though it was painful, I really believe that it opened me up pretty quickly in ways that I don't think I would have, had I been laboring different ways. For my body. And so, yeah, really grateful that the doula was, like, my coach and was like—because at one point I was like, "God, the toilet is too painful. Like, I need, like, breaks." And she was like, "It's up to you. You know, like, whatever you're feeling." And so at the end when I was just like, "I need to help this baby." And she was like, "Go to the toilet."
Stephanie: (26:39) So I had the baby, they immediately, you know, put her on me skin-to-skin and waited—I asked for them to wait to clamp the cord until, you know, we had sufficient time and the cord, you know, the blood, the way in which they kind of assess that the blood has been transferred was done. And soon after she, you know, latched on pretty quickly. And it was a beautiful, like, everything that they described, it happened. I was like, I was really in another world, you know. I will say that I think, even though I was having this, like, beautiful moment with my daughter, I was very nervous. I was thinking the whole thing around, like, "Please do not let me hemorrhage right now," literally was what I was thinking. And I had told the doula, like, one of the things that I really wanted her to make sure is that, like, look at my placenta when they take it out. I was like, "Please, to the best of your ability, like, make sure it's all there." And she did that. I knew that she did that. I saw her and she was, like, very confident, very focused. She did what she had to do. Obviously a doctor was there. She's doing a great job as well. She was just, it was just another check. And I did feel every stitch, I had a second degree tear. So, you know, I think the other thing is, the doctor had asked me during my check-in the day before whether it was okay to have a student with her. Lennox Hospital is one of these hospitals that has that ability. And I was like, "Sure, no problem. That's totally fine." Like, I was a student once, and it was very helpful when I was able to do it. So, no problem. Because it was a student helping her, I think they just took a little bit longer, which I think—in one hand it sucked, because I'm, like, feeling the whole thing. On the other hand, she literally, she was saying everything out loud that she was doing to the student, so it kind of helped me a little bit, give me ease to know exactly what they were doing. So I knew when they were stitching it, I mean, when she was, like, finishing it, you know, I knew that, you know, at one point she's like, "The blood's doing well." So, like, she just kept saying things that, like, was, like, very reassuring, so I appreciated that. So they stitched me, did the whole process and yeah, so, you know, Kimathi was born. And I think the whole experience was very fast, in the one hand. I was like, "Can't believe what just happened."
Lisa (28:53) So there was no problem with her breathing, it sounds like, at all, with the meconium.
Stephanie: (28:56) They did monitor her obviously for the two days to ensure that she was healthy and that she was okay. But no, there was no problem with that. She's good. Yeah. I think—I was thinking about this and thinking about our podcast. At our first class—first or second class, you asked all the moms in the group, you said, "How could you describe your birth? Like, how would you want to describe your birth?" Two words, I think it was, and I remember I said "powerful and transformative." And I kid you not, I mean, that is exactly how I describe it to my friends, to my family, to people who ask me. It was the first time in my life where I was completely confident and in tune and trusting of my body in ways that I cannot explain. You know, and I previewed this a little bit, but it's like, we live in a world where women are often told not to do those things, to not trust themselves, to not trust their bodies, not just in giving birth, but in many of our experiences that have to do with ourselves. But this experience, you know, really was transformative and powerful. Not just because I was becoming her mom, but I really had to trust my body to do what it had to do to birth this child. And I was, you know, just grateful that I had that experience. And the training that you and Heidi provided was really instrumental to that.
Lisa: (30:17) Do you have any specific tips on how women can tap into that confidence?
Stephanie: (30:25) That is a great question. I think a few things. The first thing is, you know, whatever your spiritual connection, you know, whether it is, you know, thinking of ancestors, or maybe your religious, you know, deity or God, or religion or church. But I think really tapping into something that's bigger than ourselves in that moment. And that comes in very different forms for me. And I think in that moment, tapping into that was very much one thing. I think the second thing was just thinking about my baby. Like, I was thinking about her, like, going through my birth canal, really picturing the work that she was doing, knowing that, like, she wanted to be born just as much as I wanted to become a mom. And so we wanted to meet each other in the outside world and just really focusing on her as well. And then the last thing I think, you know, it's, like, one of these things where you prepare, right? Like, you did everything that you could within, you know, our means and, you know, the abilities and all the things that we have. But at the same time, it's kind of just letting go. Like, really embracing the fact that I knew if I had to have a C-section and if I had to have—whatever, if I needed to get an epidural, even though that wasn't my choice, but whatever—was welcoming in that moment, that I was going to embrace it and be okay and confident with it, even if it wasn't what I specifically planned or had envisioned. And so I think those three things were very, very helpful. And you know, it really was in a way, I think the first time that I just was, like, letting all of those things just, like, overwhelm me and just really be confident in the decisions in the moment that I was making.
Lisa: (32:00) I love that. Thank you so much. There's so much wisdom there.
Stephanie: (32:04) Of course. Of course.
Lisa (32:06) Great. Well, do you want to get into, like, back to where we were in time and breastfeeding and initial postpartum?
Stephanie: (32:12) Yes. I'd love to. So initial postpartum. So I was in the hospital for two days and I think I—at the beginning I realized this, but I was very, like, welcoming of everything they said postpartum in ways that I was not during the birth, and I wish that I had prepped or felt as confident in that moment as well, looking back now. And so I say that because—so I was, I had stitches, but I didn't know exactly where my stitches were. I didn't know how many I had. I didn't—I knew how to take care of them generally, like, I knew how to, like, clean them and all that. But I was very lost in this moment of, like, "What is going on?" And I say that because literally for a week, even after I left the hospital, I was using those very thick pads that they give you. And I couldn't, even when I was at the hospital, I could not sit upright. Like, I had to always be, like, either leaning back or to the side and I could not understand why. I could barely walk. And it wasn't because of the, my body's pain, it was because of the stitches pain. And so I just thought this was normal, right? Like, this is normal. I just had a baby. I have, like, a second degree tear. But something in me was like, "What is going on?" So after my doula came back to visit me at the house around day five, postpartum, I asked her, I was like, "I'm struggling to sit. Like, not because my body doesn't want to sit, but it's, like, literally, it's, like, excruciating pain where I do, at the incision site."
Stephanie: (33:47) And she was like, "Well, what are you wearing?" Like how, you know, you're, and then she started going into like, "Well, your incision looks like this. This is where it's at." And she literally was like, "It's on the left side. It's on the outer side of your, like, labia." So, the first time I envisioned what it actually looked, like, where it was. And she was like, "You might want to think through using these, like, padsicles." She described them to me, but the thing that was radically different was when I switched to the padsicles, they were very thin pads, very thin. And I realized once I switched that I needed to stop using the thick pads, because they were brushing up on my stitches, and I literally couldn't sit. So I think, you know, bringing this back to the, you know, initial postpartum phase at the hospital, I think had the hospital and the doctors told me, you know, "This is where your stitches are and here's how many you have. You could, you know, consider using a thinner pad so it doesn't brush up on your stitches"—things that I just would have had no idea about—it would've been a much easier transition after that initial phase. I think the fact that I wasn't able to sit upright for such a long time was really impacting my mind, because I was like, "What is going on? Like, I can't sit!" And so that's one thing.
Stephanie: (35:03) I think the second thing was, you know, the hospital had lactation consultants. And you know, I requested them immediately, because by day two my nipples were cracked, bleeding, sore and you know, but I knew again, like, I was like, "It doesn't matter if I'm, like, bleeding, this baby is going to get this colostrum." But I, that was me, you know, that was that, that was my experience. That's what I wanted. And I asked for them. They came to my room. I asked for them, like, three times because I was really struggling. And I remember seeing the videos that you had sent on latching, the videos that I had seen on YouTube, and just endless things that I had looked up on. And I remember looking at Kimathi, thinking, "She's not opening her mouth as wide." And I was like, "Maybe she's just little," or you know, I started second-guessing that innate, like, thought that, like, she's not—it's not that we're not latching together, it's just that she can't open her mouth up large enough, big enough. And so anyways, they came in, they were like, "No, she's latching on fine. It's—this is just what happens. It's normal, you're doing great, blah, blah, blah."
Stephanie: (36:08) All right. Go home, I'm still bleeding. Cracked nipples. I mean breastfeeding, to be quite honest, the first two months was the most excruciating—it was way more painful for me than the birth. Not just the actual—just, every time she would latch, but just the experience of those first two months in that was really, really tough. Thankfully my doula, when she did come to visit those few days after I was home, you know, she was like, "So how you're doing with breastfeeding?" I showed her my nipples and she was like, "Oh, this is not supposed to be like that." And I was like, "Oh, I'm so glad you say that, because everyone at the hospital was like, 'Oh this is normal.'" And so she was like, "No, this is definitely not supposed to be this way." She's like, "Let me look at the baby." So she takes Kimathi, she, like, lays her in front of her, opens her mouth. Sure enough she goes, "Kimathi has both lip tie and tongue tie." And I had no idea, you know, what these things—I mean, I had vaguely an idea, but I would have not known to, like, look at it. And so she goes, so Kimathi literally can't—first, she can't open her mouth wide enough and second she can't latch on correctly because her tongue is not doing what it needs to do because they can't. And it was like, "Oh my God." Like, "Someone hears me, like, I'm not going crazy. My daughter did, she literally can't do it."
Stephanie: (37:22) So she recommended a number of, you know, specialists that do the procedure and I was at the doctor's office, you know, within two days of that. And that was a whole 'nother ordeal where it was like—I was a week postpartum, I was in severe pain from like—my nipples were just, like, constantly in pain. And it was the first time that I had to make this really big decision about my daughter's literal body, right? Like, I'm about to, like, cut something in her body. And what made it even more difficult was that the specialist said, "It's not bad enough to where it's going to impact her speech or, you know, anything later in life. But if you want to breastfeed her, then you're going to want to do this procedure, because it will always be painful." And so it was one of those things where I was like, "Oh my God," like, everything was impounding on me. It was like, "Am I doing this for selfish reasons?" Like, does she—you know, all of these things. And so, and of course, you know, seven days postpartum, your hormones are all over the place. And so I stuck to my gut and I was like, "No, I think breastfeeding trumps this momentary, like, little pain that she's going to experience."
Stephanie: (38:26) And so they—I mean it was very quick. I mean she was, like, literally I just held her and the doctor, you know, clipped her, right under her tongue, right under her lip, and she bled for, like, two seconds. And I latched her on, and it was radically different. Literally immediately.
Lisa: (38:40) Immediately. Wow. It usually takes a couple of weeks to, like, heal, and for things to kind of get better. But, great.
Stephanie: (38:46) I mean we still had some practicing to do, like, it wasn't, like, my nipples went great after that, but the latch itself, I mean it really did feel differently. It was really, really amazing. So we did that and you know, I think the postpartum part, once I figured out the padsicles, once I figured out, you know, just starting the breastfeeding journey of healing and then, like, really getting into the flow after we fixed the lip tie, the tongue tie, it started to get much better.
Stephanie: (39:18) I think the last hardship or just experience that I had was I did get baby blues. And it was, like, textbook baby blues. I had it for the first two weeks and literally I was, like, done on day 14. And I say that because literally on day 15 I'm like—I didn't have the symptoms that I was having, and I remember making a note of it in a journal that I had, because I was like, "This is incredible." Like, literally two weeks. And I knew that I self-diagnosed in the sense of, like, I didn't have, like, a doctor telling me that I had it, but I'm pretty sure I did in the sense that, you know, I was having this feeling of the first two weeks, like, every time the sun would go down of dread. Like, I really felt dreadful, like, something was going to go wrong. I didn't know what was going to go wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it was really, really intense. And I would cry. And it wasn't like I would cry the whole night, but it was, like, for this maybe, like, 30 minutes at night, I just had this fear. And I was having a lot of nightmares of children dying, not just mine, but just generally, like, I was in, like, war zones and, like, just the image and the feeling of that. And it was really scary. And I remember—this is a great segue. So these are the main three things that I was experiencing, like, initial postpartum phase. In addition to, like, all the wonderful stuff, which is important!—which was, yes, breastfeeding was difficult, but I was so like, I was just, like, so confident and I knew that no matter what, that, like, my child was getting fed, even in the midst of, like, not knowing. I was confident in that and it was beautiful. And, like, here we are 14 months later and we're still breastfeeding. Kimathi was exclusively breastfed until she started eating solids. And she didn't—she started eating solids really on her own around seven, eight months. And you know, we have no intention of stopping. She's, she very clearly still wants to breastfeed, and, you know, I'm kind of following her cues on that. So I'm just so happy that I did that. And it's—I love breastfeeding so much so that, like, I am, I'm truly considering at some point in my life becoming a lactation consultant. Not just because of the love that I experienced, but it was just the raft of information that we're getting that's just not great. And that's wrong. And I think if we are going to make choices as moms, like, we should make informed choices.
Stephanie: (41:29) And so yeah, so that's one piece, and there's obviously, like, a racial justice component to that, where it's like, you know, women of color and black moms are the ones that breastfeed the most. They're also the ones that are getting bombarded by formula companies the most, they are the ones that have to go back to work quicker. I mean, there's, like, a whole host of issues that go with this. And so anyways, huge advocate of breastfeeding, but also just a huge advocate of moms having real informed choices in life experiences and birthing experiences and nursing experience that they actually want to have. So that's the one part. And the other part is just not knowing anything about what it was going to be like postpartum. I think the one thing that I would have done different was really surrounded myself with my family to support me in ways that I needed to be supported.
Stephanie: (42:17) So I was living in New York at the time, New York City, and it was really just me, Kimathi's dad and Kimathi. My parents and my grandma and my sister came to visit the first week, but then they went back and that was it. I didn't have any family, nothing, no support. So it was very, very difficult for all of us in the sense of, like, everything that was not baby-related, right? So, like, the chores and the food, and just all of these other things that go with not just new baby, but really becoming a new mom and new parents. And I think, thinking back, I think I would've done something to allow myself to have that support had I needed it more. But I think what I did do—what we did do was, like, we really didn't beat ourselves up about those things, because bonding with the baby, being with the baby, really understanding that, like, time was going to pass. Like, it was this time that we had to be with her. And I really embraced that, and I'm proud that I did that and, like, I don't regret that at all. And it worked out, and it worked out really, really well. I have a beautiful bond, I like to think, with my child, and I think that—I think all of those things really fostered having that. And so I'm just really happy that that kind of came out to be that way.
Stephanie: (43:28) So I think, you know, being a new mom in a city by myself, having had a baby in October, which was starting the cold months, which meant we were really kind of, like, cooped up for the first three months in the house for most of it, and not having, like, family or friends nearby—I think outside of needing practical chores, like, support, like, chores and food and all these things I really didn't understand and especially as it related to breastfeeding, all of the affirmational support and the emotional support that I would need and I didn't really know where to get that. I wasn't really getting it in person and I really, really needed it, especially in the wee hours of the night when I'm breastfeeding for, like, the sixth time and I'm still in pain or I had thrush or still not figuring out a pump correctly or you know, everything that you, that all of us in some way shape or forms are experiencing that feeling of, like, overwhelm and not knowing, like, is this normal? Am I doing okay?
Stephanie: (44:29) And actually the support that I had that came up very quickly—and I was so grateful for it—was actually moms on social media. And the way that that came to be was—I post a lot on social media. It's a way that I like to connect with friends and people. I also do a lot of advocacy on there, like, not you know, branded or anything, but just my own advocacy. I like to talk about, you know, different things and I just started posting a lot on my Instagram stories every day. I would just point, like, post my experiences, or if I had a question, or, you know, would take pictures or ask for advice. And at the beginning I really was just doing it as a way to just one, document; two, to just have interaction with people outside of my home. And what quickly happened was that moms, moms that I knew that lived in other states, moms from law school that actually were having babies at the same time I was, and moms that I didn't even know in person or hadn't ever met were basically writing me every day. We were DM-ing each other every day at the wee hours of the night, you know, answering questions, providing support, like, "You're doing a great job," like, "I'm so proud of you," like, "One month breastfeeding! Woo! Way to go!" like, these little affirmations that were daily or weekly that really, really pushed me through.
Stephanie: (45:47) I think, you know, they say it takes a village, and I think in this new age, for me at least, the village also included this group of women on social media. And some of them I had never met or even moms that I met that I really never saw. And so I'm just so eternally grateful for that. And I tell them all the time, because we still talk. Obviously we don't talk as much for some of them, but we're still, like, constantly, like, talking to each other at times. And I tell them like, "Thank you, like, I am 14 months in my breastfeeding journey because you, like, supported me through it,. Like, I had women tell me, like, "Wear nipple shields that first week" where I was, like, completely bleeding. I didn't know what nipple shields were. That was a mom on social media. I had another mom telling me about, you know, lanolin cream or, like, this other cream, or "Try this" or, you know. And really I'm just really, really grateful for that way of just connecting with other moms that I, especially as someone who's alone that I think I really needed. That was great.
Lisa: (46:41) I'm so glad that you've found that source of support and we need it in some form at whatever form works. Like, that's great, because especially with social media, people are all over the place in time zones. And so, like, in the middle of the night, like you were saying, when you're doing the sixth feeding of the night and you're, like, "I need support," somebody is probably awake and is going to respond to you and...
Stephanie (47:05) Exactly right. And it really did happen. I remember distinctly a friend from mine from law school who—her son was born I think, like, two weeks earlier than Kimathi. So we were, like, pretty much, you know, on this journey together. But because she's on the west coast, she was three hours earlier than I was. So it actually worked out perfectly because we were both, whenever we, like, pinged each other and we responded because it was, like, the timing worked out. We also, like, sent each other books on postpartum, like, little care packages to, like, other moms. I mean it was just so beautiful and, like, welcoming and I'm just, yeah, totally grateful for that space.
Lisa: (47:38) That is fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. Now I'm like, oh I wish I had been following your stories then, because I could have been encouraging you, too, and learning from you.
Stephanie: (47:50) But we're really—it makes me think, like, so glad you have an Instagram, so glad that, like, people can know about it through this, you know, podcast. but that's another avenue where, you know, it's advocacy and also support and I hope people also take advantage of that, too.
Lisa: (48:05) I wanted to ask you, you brought up pumping. Did you start pumping early on? What did that look like?
Stephanie: (48:12) So I actually—you know, one of the things that you actually advised us on was: if you don't have to start pumping right away, give yourself a break—if you don't have to, right? And I didn't have to. I had almost four months of maternity leave for my job, and so I really didn't start pumping until probably month three postpartum. And it was really just to start building a stash. I had a pretty robust supply of milk. And so I was just, like, stashing every time she would feed, I would pump right after that. And then once in the middle of the night, if she wouldn't, you know, wake up. Although she still does wake up. We co-sleep so she wakes up sometimes. But, so I started around month three and it's still something I detest. I really don't like pumping. It's just tedious. Like, it's not, it's not just the feeling that I don't like, but it's just, like, the tediousness of having to clean it, and all of these things. Like, you would think—if men actually breastfed, I am very sure that we would have much better technology at this point. But nevertheless, yes. So I started around month three.
Stephanie: (49:13) Something that I think is important to say—and I share this with people who are my friends and follow me and, like, see that I've been breastfeeding for so long in the context of, like, what's normal in this country is: I work remotely. So I work from home. And even though Kimathi, you know, she's with someone most of the time, like, when she wants to breastfeed—to the extent that I can—I just, you know, on demand, I still just breastfeed her, or she still sometimes breastfeeds to sleep, she nurses to sleep. And I think all of those things have one, kept my supply up for this long. And I have a lot of moms who are working moms who will, like, DM me all like, "I'm losing my supply, like, I'm working." And it's like, I totally hear that, and I totally sympathize with that, because at the end of the day, the way in which we think of working in the United States is not compatible with a mom who wants to nurse, right? Like, pumping is going to impact your supply differently than if you're, you know, attaching your child onto the breasts.
Stephanie: (50:09) And so I really think that part of the reason why I've gone this long is because I work remotely and I had four months to just exclusively, like, focus on my child. I think most people in this country don't have that opportunity and don't have that chance. And it's really...it's really crappy for the moms who choose that breastfeeding is for them and they can't because they start seeing this dwindling of supply or it just becomes difficult, or clogged ducts....And it's just really upsetting. It's one of the reasons why I think mother mortality and infant advocacy and things like, you know, social justice and racial justice, all of these things go together, because how we think about maternity leave, paternity leave, parental leave and nursing, those things go together. And so, yeah, just really grateful for the privilege that I have had in working from home to be able to continue breastfeeding the way that I have.
Lisa: (51:00) So as an attorney, have you done much work in that specific field or do you see yourself doing even more as a result of your experiences?
Stephanie: (51:10) You know, I don't directly, I'm not directly in that field of like, you know, infant advocacy or, you know, mother justice or, you know, work, but indirectly, right? Like, I think if we have a country that's thriving in, in a democracy where our elections are actually understood as, like, one person, one vote, and they're actually counted equitably, like, eventually, right? I would hope that our country and our folks vote for people who, you know, respect those things. But having a system that is just and equitable in and of itself, I think, you know, indirectly will impact all of those things. So I'm currently working on that kind of aspect of, like, protecting and ensuring that our democracy stays in place. But I hope to like, you know, eventually do some more work directly in that field, if not maybe lactation consultant one day. I'm still shooting for that.
Lisa: (52:01) I love that. That's wonderful. Well, thank you for that work you're doing. It's much needed. Good stuff.
Stephanie: (52:10) Yeah, I just remembered one thing in the postpartum phase, one of the things that was the most helpful was your Amazon list that you had curated for students. And honestly, I say that for two reasons. One, even though I had read up on, like, postpartum and everything, I had not prepped for it in the way that I had prepped for everything else in the sense of, like, the things that I needed or the tools that I could, you know, quickly get to. And your Amazon list had things like herbal salts, to, like, soak in postpartum. And that herbal salt was incredible for me. I mean I also put it inside the actual mom washer, the Frida, I forgot what it's called.
Lisa: (52:56) Yeah, the Fridet.
Stephanie: (52:57) Yeah, so I would actually just put one tablespoon inside of it with the warm water, and when I would cleanse myself with it, it was in there, and I mean it was such—it was amazing. I actually bought it for other moms. But it was just the Amazon list also had a number, like, the actual Frida bidet thing and a number of things that actually just ended up being incredibly helpful that I would have never thought about had you not curated that list for us. So this is just another plug for the list. And for people and for moms, to just think through in ways that I hadn't, just, like, really what you need postpartum.
Lisa: (53:29) Oh, I'm so thankful to hear that that was useful to you because...
Stephanie: (53:33) It was.
Lisa (53:33) Yeah, it was maybe a year ago that I suddenly had this light bulb and I was like, let me make people's lives easier and just make this little list and, yeah, make it efficient, because you've got enough going on in pregnancy already.
Stephanie: (53:47) Exactly. And then you're like, "I'm trying to keep this little person alive!" And then you become this, like, secondary person. It's like, well, you need to take care of yourself too. So, very helpful.
Lisa: (53:54) Stephanie, so many parents, as they enter into parenthood, experience some relationship challenges. And I know that you've had your own and just wanted to know if you'd like to share any of that.
Stephanie: (54:09) Yeah. Thanks for asking that question. I appreciate you seeing me in this moment. You know, I think that when you have a child, what happens is that whatever, maybe, wrinkles in your relationship that were there before the child was born kind of heightens in that moment. Right? Two people are exhausted, trying to take care of this little person who has just been born and keep this little person alive and you're sleep deprived. And we know that studies show that, like, sleep deprivation is like torture. You're not eating well. There's a whole number of factors that go into that. And so I think, you know, whatever wrinkles in the relationship might've already been there are kind of heightened in that moment. And so I think with all the grace and the mercy that you can find, I think—even though you know, Kimathi's father and I have had our challenges, I think in the midst of it all, we've kind of stayed focused on the thing that matters the most in this moment, which is our daughter, and our daughter really having two healthy, happy and whole parents.
Stephanie: (55:06) And if that means that our relationship dynamic changes as it relates to he and I, and then that's okay, but we're always going to be family, and she's always going to be a part of our lives and she's our daughter. And I think really what guides in that moment is, it's that, and I think remembering that north star. And so I'm looking forward to the new transition and the new co-parenting relationship that will emerge even in the moment of, like, grief and sadness of, like, this life and relationship that you really thought you were going to have. But I think just staying focused and really tapping into, again, kind of what your spiritual—or the something bigger than you, where you look to, staying focused. And I think—I'm just grateful for that, and I'm grateful to have a support system, family and friends. I'm grateful that he also has that as well in this moment. yeah, it's just kind of looking forward to learning, as hard as it may be, how to really thrive in this new dynamic of family.
Lisa: (56:03) Thank you so much for sharing that. That means so much to me that you're willing to be vulnerable. And, you know, because I think we need to talk about that kind of thing more.
Stephanie: (56:12) Absolutely.
Lisa: (56:12) Because it's hard. It's so hard and it's, and yet it's really common. I hate to even use the word "common," but you know, it happens a lot.
Stephanie: (56:22) No, it is. It's very hard. And I think you, there's, like, this, there's this moment where you also, like, as a person, as a mom, and as a human being, you also need support very much early on in postpartum. You're just learning how to become a mom and this whole new identity—and as I'm sure the father is as well, or whoever the other partner is in the relationship, whatever their sex or gender is. But at least for me, in my experience becoming a new mom, I really needed support. And I think I eventually got to a point where I realized that I needed to place myself in a space where I had what I needed. And it took a little bit long. But I also give myself, like, the grace and the kindness of, like, I was very much focused on my baby and what I thought in the moment was the best for her. And I still think it was. But yeah, I think we just shouldn't also, like, lose sight of exactly what you're saying, which is: these things happen. They're not taboo. It happens more likely than we as a society talk about. And I think that instead of, like, attaching shame or fear to it, and—not to say that I didn't experience these things, I'm not, you know, immune from them. But I think what I learned quickly is that the more I stay in that space, the less I'm going to be able to get support and help in a way that was going to help me help my daughter. Because she deserves a happy and healthy mom as well. And so I think once I started letting go of the shame and the fear and my own ego in the situation, I was able to start kind of going to this new phase and new healing and new support system that I needed. And I think we're on the right track.
Lisa: (57:50) What you just shared—I so admire how emotionally healthy you sound, like, and really mature. You know, really just...awesome
Stephanie: (58:01) It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. But yeah. I have faith.
Lisa: (58:03) Wonderful. Thank you. So any last tips or things you wanted to say before we wrap things up?
Stephanie: (58:12) You know, I would just say, like I said at the beginning, really trust yourself. For the moms who are giving birth, who are pregnant, really trust yourself, your decisions, how you envision your birth. Really, like, don't take in so much what society is saying of not doing those things. I think it's counter what we're taught, counter the ways in which we're brought up, counter what you see on television. And I know this is kind of, like, cliché because it's like, well, birth is not what you see on television. But it's really not, in many ways. And so what I'd say is, like, really just trust yourself and learn how to embrace what is uncertain in the moment as well, and that you're going to get closer to your baby very soon and it's going to be incredible and magical and exactly perfect for the two of you.
Lisa: (58:56) Love it. Thank you, Stephanie.
Stephanie: (58:59) Thank you so much. I'm so glad we finally got to talk.
Lisa: (59:01) Me, too! All right, take care. Bye.
Stephanie: (59:05) Bye.
Lisa: (59:07) I hope you enjoyed Stephanie's birth story as much as I did. Before we call it a wrap, I'll go over a few quick topics that came up: induction, the IV and the hep lock, vocalization, and racial disparities in breastfeeding rates. Did you know that, according to Evidence Based Birth, 42.9% of first pregnancies are induced in the U.S.? And I have a strong hunch that this statistic might be even higher here in New York, though I haven’t seen any stats on that.
Lisa: (59:35) Induction, which means starting a labor in some non-spontaneous way (whether with drugs, tools, or procedures), is a riskier and, most often, a harder, longer path to choose, so it’s not something to take lightly. There are certainly some times in which an induction is absolutely necessary, but in our country where we have some of the worst outcomes for mothers of the developed nations of the world, there are many cases in which induction is not truly medically necessary. Instead, they're done out of impatience or fear that's not really based in any real truth or evidence. A quality childbirth class will help you navigate this on a more granular level, but in general, if your care provider’s starting to talk about scheduling an induction, you can always ask for an explanation as to the reasons and the evidence behind those reasons. What are the benefits? What are the risks? What happens if we wait? You do have the right to decline an induction if you’re not convinced it’s truly necessary. Regarding Stephanie’s mention of a hep lock, I’d like to take this opportunity to talk about why a low-risk, healthy person shouldn’t have to have an automatic IV. IVs are standard in most hospitals. They're a kind of “set it and forget it” kind of mentality. It's easier for nurses to not have to come in and constantly ask if a laboring person has been drinking fluids, and even if they could do that, there's no way for the hospital to manage the quantities without an IV. If a laboring person becomes dehydrated, it can definitely slow down the labor, so the hydration is very important. Therefore, most hospitals administer IV by default. However, there are reasons that a healthy, low-risk laboring person should not have to have a default IV until or unless medications are used that necessitate it. It's usually going to bode better for a healthy labor for a low-risk laboring person to drink to thirst.
Lisa: (01:06:14) Let me explain a few reasons why you might want to request to either drink to thirst with no IV, or to have a port called a hep lock or saline lock. I'll go from the least compelling to the most compelling reasons to either have no IV fluids or to request 1/2 or maybe even a third of the normal maintenance amount. First, the more things that we’re hooked up to in labor, the more it contributes to a sick patient mentality, which does not help the process along. Also, you can be mobile and move around to facilitate progress in labor while hooked up to an IV, but it's a bit of a hindrance. Everywhere you go, you're having to drag along this metal tower on wheels. Another consideration is that it's easier to miss it if the hospital staff are hanging a bag of medication such as Pitocin without mentioning it to run through the IV, which happens a lot.
Lisa: (01:06:14) And then the two most compelling reasons to consider having either fewer fluids or no IV fluids in labor have to do with breastfeeding. First, the baby is often born with extra water weight and then loses quite a bit of weight right after birth, which often causes hospital staff to panic and unnecessarily encourage formula to be given to the baby. We've talked about this in other episodes, but as long as the baby does not lose more than 10% of their birth weight, this weight loss is normal and there should be no reason to supplement (of course, in the absence of any other medical concern). Yet many hospitals do encourage supplementation even when the weight loss is below 10%. Second, the parent who has given birth has extra water weight as well or edema. It takes around a week to get rid of that extra amount of fluids, which can interfere with breast milk coming in, which usually happens around day 3 to 5. When there’s too much fluid in the breasts, it can either delay the onset of milk production--which is obviously less than ideal--or the milk comes in and it can cause issues such as engorgement, plugged ducts, or a breast infection called mastitis because the breast is now overcrowded. Lactation consultants I know here in New York say this is a constant problem with the standard level of IV fluids that are pumped into mothers. This doesn't mean that parents can't breastfeed or chestfeed, but it does mean that it's much more likely you might need a lactation consultant to help with troubleshooting and strategies to help overcome those challenges. I recommend asking your care provider if you can opt out of the IV. If your care provider resists this idea, you could either ask for less of the fluid or could say you're willing to compromise by having a hep lock or saline lock (which are interchangeable terms). Saline lock is the more accurate current term as that's what's used these days. With this, the hospital staff go ahead and do the front end work of finding a vein, inserting a needle and keeping it open with saline, so that it's a port for quick hookup should the need arise for an IV. The hep lock will be a workable compromise for many care providers, and can be a great option for anyone who has to have antibiotics in labor due to being Group B strep positive.
Lisa: (01:06:14) With GBS, the protocol in the U.S. is to get antibiotics once every 4 hours. So, the laboring person could hook up to the IV just for a few minutes once every four hours and then unplug from the IV the rest of the time. Stephanie discussed vocalizing in labor. Vocalizing can be a very helpful and instinctive coping tool for some people, and not for others. One very important thing to ask yourself is whether vocalizing energizes you or if you find it draining. You would only want to make sound if it's energizing for you. For some women, vocalizing feels very empowering and kind of like, “I Am Woman; hear me roar!” but not for others.
Lisa: (01:06:14) Another principle with vocalizing is that you want to keep in mind that the most relaxed way for the vocal folds to create sound is in the mid to low range. Because relaxation is very important in labor, and because there is a very real correlation between the state of your jaw and throat and that of your pelvic floor, it's very important to keep the jaw and throat loose and relaxed in labor. This is because the pelvic floor needs to relax and open for the baby to come down and out. That might sound odd if you've never heard it before, and yet it's true. If your tone climbs as you vocalize in labor, it’s both tension-producing and exhausting, and yet we often don't have the bandwidth in labor to realize this and might need our labor support to guide us. I talked about this in episode 2 when my husband and I shared our first baby’s birth story. Something to ponder: if you had to describe birth in 1-2 words, what would those be? No judgment, just whatever pops into your head. Okay, here’s a sneak peek of what’s up next week!
Speaker: (01:06:14) When they say like, you know, you're kind of on, like, a high for, like, that first hour, that was absolutely 100% what it felt like. It was absolutely euphoric. I was just so in love. I just, I remember, like, seeing him when he was first born. I just, like, started immediately, like, bawling my eyes out because it was just the most amazing thing, you know? And, like, you can feel that moving for nine months. You talk to them, you sing to them, you do all these things and then, like, they're there and it's like, "Wow, you're real! I made that!" It was a beautiful, beautiful moment.
Lisa: (01:06:48) This week, as well as through labor and into parenting, I want you to remind yourself, like Stephanie did, "I can do this. I can do this." Thanks so much for listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, and we'll see you next week.---END---
